Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Etihad Announces Jet Airways Move From BRU To AMS  
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 894 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 22795 times:

Surprising news from James Hogan CEO of ETIHAD on 21 May 2013 at a joint KL/EY news conference in AMS.

Apparently, he stated that advance plans exist for Jet Airways to move its scissor hub from BRU to AMS, to build on AMS connectivity.

It appears that the new shareholder has a big say in decisions in India.

He also revealed that EY wishes to enter a cooperation with DL and that the new EY/KL cooperation has resulted in tens of thousands booking to the various codeshare destinations. But EY does not wish to join SKYTEAM.

regretfully text in Dutch only:

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nl-NL..._Airways_van_Brussel_naar_Schiphol

It does state in small print .....plans are still to be submitted to the Jet Airways Board. So James Hogan must be confident to make it public.

[Edited 2013-05-21 08:40:42]

85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2188 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 22785 times:

Wowowowwowowowowowowwow. This is pretty big. Then again, it also makes sense. BRU is basically a dead-end for Jet Airways in terms of value-added for a scissor hub.

Quoting factsonly (Thread starter):
He also revealed that EY wishes to enter a cooperation with DL and that the new EY/KL cooperation has resulted in tens of thousands booking to the various codeshare destinations. But EY does not wish to join SKYTEAM.

Totally makes sense. Etihad has the upper hand here. They can cozy up with their preferred picks within SkyTeam and basically have DL/AF/KL eat out of their hands while also maintaining a "hands-off, noncommittal" approach to the rest of SkyTeam with minimal backlash.

Aren't alliance shifts fun to watch!?



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2194 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 22691 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 1):
Totally makes sense. Etihad has the upper hand here. They can cozy up with their preferred picks within SkyTeam and basically have DL/AF/KL eat out of their hands while also maintaining a "hands-off, noncommittal" approach to the rest of SkyTeam with minimal backlash.

Aren't alliance shifts fun to watch!?

The next step is EY stopping their partnership with AA, AB potentially leaving oneworld sooner than later.

After that, potentially (weirder things have happened), EK continues to partner with other oneworld carriers, including AA. Long term, one could potentially end up with EY in skyteam and EK/QR in oneworld. It would IMHO be the correct retribution to Star and LH for all their bashing of Gulf carriers.


User currently onlineAlsatian From France, joined May 2005, 423 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 22569 times:

AMS is absolutely logical as it is the #1 airport to connect with all the UK primary and secondary cities. That is the key.


Ok I am French but I am not on strike
User currently offlineFlyingHollander From Netherlands, joined Jul 2011, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 22412 times:

Finally, I've been waiting for this for ages! AMS really needs to increase its market share in India. Currently KL serves DEL and DL serves BOM, that's it. Even though the other routes to BRU were axed I'm confident that these will come back to AMS if the move materializes.


If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 22256 times:

Any update on EY and JAT Airways courtship?

User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2188 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 22070 times:

Quoting runway23 (Reply 2):
The next step is EY stopping their partnership with AA, AB potentially leaving oneworld sooner than later.

It really could go either way. Bear in mind that Etihad is juggling several carriers and doesn't necessarily mandate universal policy across the board. airberlin has definitely reported noticeable gains from its codeshare relationships with oneworld in terms of growth in passenger numbers, which is worth waiting out to see if that in turn delivers stronger YoY revenue growth (which it badly needs).



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 21740 times:

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 4):
Finally, I've been waiting for this for ages! AMS really needs to increase its market share in India. Currently KL serves DEL and DL serves BOM, that's it. Even though the other routes to BRU were axed I'm confident that these will come back to AMS if the move materializes.

Agreed, I guess KLM had their reasons for pulling HYD, but I would have used the flight quite a few times in the past few years, had it existed. I find none of the alternatives particularly appealing. The DL/9W combi requires a night in hotel in Mumbai. The timings of the EK return flight are simply awful. I don't like the idea of backtracking on BA through LHR. Most of the times I thus flew a combi of KL/6E. But then again you face the transfer between terminals in Delhi in a rickety old city bus with malfunctioning doors.....

Anyway, please bring a nonstop AMS-HYD back!!!!!!


User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 626 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 21515 times:

Quoting runway23 (Reply 2):
Long term, one could potentially end up with EY in skyteam
EY's CEO keeps repeating his airline will not join any alliance since it does not need to. As a matter of fact, with its multiple partnerships and investments, EY is creating an alliance of its own that transcends the current "triopoly".



Quoting runway23 (Reply 2):
It would IMHO be the correct retribution to Star and LH for all their bashing of Gulf carriers.

I am under the impression that despite its partnership with EY, AF/KL CEO is not short of bashing the ME3 as well.



Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 4):
AMS really needs to increase its market share in India. Currently KL serves DEL and DL serves BOM, that's it.

Agreed. I believe KL has the potential to serve more destinations in India, possibly BOM with its own metal and a third destination (HYD, CCU or MAA are under served from Europe). I am not sure the bilateral allows this.

[Edited 2013-05-21 10:57:28]


I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18912 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 1):
They can cozy up with their preferred picks within SkyTeam and basically have DL/AF/KL eat out of their hands while also maintaining a "hands-off, noncommittal" approach to the rest of SkyTeam with minimal backlash.

Interesting. They can that way serve SkyTeam hubs or SkyTeam-served airports with the help with DL, AF and KL, and/or through any other airline that happens to be an EY ally but not a SkyTeam member that serves those airports too. It is indeed very interesting how airlines that are members of alliances are now adapting to a world of bilateral or multilateral relationships that circumvent or go across alliances.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 2):
AB potentially leaving oneworld sooner than later.

Who knows. It seems AB has developed a good relationship with AA. I don't know how close BA and AB are, but I would imagine that it'd be interesting for BA to have an ally in Germany; therefore, it might be in the best interest of some oneworld carriers to keep AB in the fold. Then again, AF/KL could push to have AB switch. Let's see how this plays out.

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 3):
AMS is absolutely logical as it is the #1 airport to connect with all the UK primary and secondary cities. That is the key.

Good point. That did not occur to me at first until I saw your comment. AMS is also logical for connections to certain destinations in Norway, Sweden, etc. Of course this might not be as important as having good connectivity to the UK market, but it is another plus.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently onlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 928 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18757 times:

I wonder if with these new partnerships that EY and AF/KL and EY and DL would be able to gain status miles and lounge access without being a SkyTeam member. It would be a great bebfit to the passengers. I would favour this if EY does not join an alliance then at least we can get some benefits. Any ideas? I am not sure how the current EY partnerships work today?


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25311 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 18339 times:

Does the India-Netherlands bilateral give Indian carriers 5th freedom rights beyond AMS to the U.S. and Canada?

User currently offlinestaralliance85 From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 17814 times:

This is very sad!! I was hoping that 9W would join Star but it is Not looking good!! A year ago it was a sure thing that QR and 9W would join *A. However, QR is going to OW and 9W is warming up to ST.


EY will probably end its relationship with AA and pull AB out of OW.



brad Fitzpatrick
User currently offlineElPistolero From Canada, joined Feb 2012, 1019 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 17302 times:

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 12):
This is very sad!! I was hoping that 9W would join Star but it is Not looking good!! A year ago it was a sure thing that QR and 9W would join *A. However, QR is going to OW and 9W is warming up to ST.

One of the best-informed posters here indicated that 9W approached LH first, but LH was asking for too much. If its true, then LH and *A have only themselves to blame. LH really seems to have fluffed its lines in India.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
Does the India-Netherlands bilateral give Indian carriers 5th freedom rights beyond AMS to the U.S. and Canada?

Does AMS really have all that much to offer 9W on TATL that BRU doesn't? Most of the posters have noted that the AMS card will help 9W tap into the UK and other points in Europe. I would suspect that North America would be better served from AUH, courtesy of the latter's excellent connectivity to Indian cities (20-odd cities according to some of the PR stuff coming out).

Cant say I'm entirely convinced that AMS makes sense. I don't really buy the idea of another EU hub for 9W.


User currently offlineGr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3106 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 17215 times:

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 13):
Cant say I'm entirely convinced that AMS makes sense. I don't really buy the idea of another EU hub for 9W.

Why not? If they feed into DL and KL flights to various points in the US and Canada, that's very useful.....between them, DL and KL have much more coverage in N. America than anything that BRU has to offer.....9W can operate a couple of terminating flights to AMS in addition to one's that proceed on to EWR, YYZ and/or other destinations......


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13111 posts, RR: 100
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15962 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I was so floored by this announcement that I went seeking other sources and found them:
http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...-airways-plans-an-amsterdam-switch

They say the same thing. This move makes incredible sense and yet I'm in 'enthusiast shock' to actually see an airline being run like a business!   

Rumors of hubs in Paris and Berlin too:
http://www.travelbizmonitor.com/jet-...s-in-amsterdam-berlin--paris-20420

I believe Paris. AF must change their tune and it looks like EY will be the conductor.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 1):
Wowowowwowowowowowowwow. This is pretty big. Then again, it also makes sense. BRU is basically a dead-end for Jet Airways in terms of value-added for a scissor hub.

   I had the same impression hearing this news. But doesn't it just make sense?

With *A, the best 9W could do is MUC. Now we're looking at AMS, CDG, BER, and I would bet some tie up with VS at LHR in the future. Wow is right...

Quoting runway23 (Reply 2):
The next step is EY stopping their partnership with AA, AB potentially leaving oneworld sooner than later.

Understatement. I'm not sure what has happened, but all of the sudden EY is coordinating Skyteam strategy in a big way. My jaw is on the ground at the magnitude of the strategy shift, but this means AB is 95% certain to leave OneWorld.

Anyone who has read prior posts of mine will know I have had an opinion change. Well... new facts and new opinions. EY has come up with a strategy for Skyteam that at first glance will be a HUGE winner for all participants.

My question is when does VS join Skyteam? We are witnessing a major shift in that alliance and I for one did not see it a year ago. But the shift is now here and it will be fun to witness.

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 13):
Does AMS really have all that much to offer 9W on TATL that BRU doesn't?

Yes. Instead of weak feed depending on a scissor hub, they will have far better feed *and* excellent connections with KL. This is a big win/win move for both.

This is a game changer. Obviously EY has been laying the groundwork for years.

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 12):

This is very sad!! I was hoping that 9W would join Star but it is Not looking good!! A year ago it was a sure thing that QR and 9W would join *A. However, QR is going to OW and 9W is warming up to ST.


EY will probably end its relationship with AA and pull AB out of OW.

Why sad? This is an amazing strategic move. Far better than what I thought would have been possible for 9W a year ago. This is like watching a chessmaster pull an amazing move that no one saw until the pieces started falling... The connectivity change for 9W is the difference between life and death for them.

Between China and India Skyteam just took themselves from 'also ran' to a contender in the alliances.

Let's look on the bright side. This will open up the doors for AI and *A.    (Note: I do not think *A will take them in case the humor was too subtle.)

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 13):
One of the best-informed posters here indicated that 9W approached LH first, but LH was asking for too much. If its true, then LH and *A have only themselves to blame. LH really seems to have fluffed its lines in India.

If some executives at LH are not being informed to find a new position, then LH has their head in the sand. This was a HUGE strategic blunder on their part.

A year ago, this change wouldn't have made sense. But with the shocking (to me) increase in India air service rights to/from AUH *and* a tie up with Skyteam, the game has changed. Combine this with China Airlines, Xiamen, and China Eastern and we're talking some interesting changes coming...

This also helps EY. I think it is now obvious they will become the large mid-east hub for Skyteam.

I had almost written off EY vs. EK/QR. Before they were always an 'also ran.' Now?   

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineDeltaB717 From Australia, joined Jun 2012, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 15011 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting runway23 (Reply 2):
The next step is EY stopping their partnership with AA, AB potentially leaving oneworld sooner than later.

In a similar vein, I wonder what the EY / 9W partnership might mean for the QF / 9W codeshare? Would EY entertain part of its growing empire playing with a major partner of EK?


User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 894 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14861 times:

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 13):
Does AMS really have all that much to offer 9W on TATL that BRU doesn't? Most of the posters have noted that the AMS card will help 9W tap into the UK and other points in Europe. I would suspect that North America would be better served from AUH, courtesy of the latter's excellent connectivity to Indian cities (20-odd cities according to some of the PR stuff coming out).

Cant say I'm entirely convinced that AMS makes sense. I don't really buy the idea of another EU hub for 9W.

It looks as if EY's strategy is to develop two distinct hubs for Indian traffic in cooperation with 9W:

- AUH & AMS

1. AUH to connect all (smaller) Indian destinations with the few large North American cities that can be served non-stop from AUH.

2. AMS to connect all (larger) Indian destinations with smaller North American destinations not served from AUH.

This will allow the EY/9W airlines to offer more Transatlantic choice than EK ever will using A380s to North America.


So lets have a closer look at this strategy:

1. HUB ABU DHABI:
- 9W will operate many B737s from smaller Indian places to feed the AUH hub (EK can't do that without help.)
- EY will operate larger capacity aircraft to bigger Indian cities, as well as to North America.

2. HUB AMSTERDAM:
- 9W will copy EY and codeshare with KL/DL over AMS to/from Europe and beyond..
- 9W will operate A330/B777 on its scissor hub routes from DEL, BOM, MAA, HYD with codeshare KL, DL.
- 9W will continue beyond AMS to JFK, EWR, YYZ expanding/replacing existing DL/KL flights on these routes.
- 9W will add code to DL/KL to SEA, PDX, YVR, YYC, SFO, LAX, MSP, DTW, IAH, IAD, ATL, BOS, YMX i.e. destinations not served by 9W or EY
- 9W will add its code to the vast European regional network of KL - UK, Germany, Scandinavia, etc.....
- 9W will add its code to the vast domestic USA operation of DL.
- DL/KL will add 9W code on AMS-DEL/BOM-AMS flights.
- KL & DL add their code to domestic Indian flights - already in place in some cases.

Perhaps it is starting to make some sense after all.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20636 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14541 times:

Quoting factsonly (Reply 17):
- 9W will continue beyond AMS to JFK, EWR, YYZ expanding/replacing existing DL/KL flights on these routes.

What motivation would DL/KL have to replace flying done under their JV with a codeshare flown on the metal of a non-JV/non-alliance partner?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 14337 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 5):
Any update on EY and JAT Airways courtship?

Apparently so... http://exyuaviation.blogspot.ae/2013.../jat-takeover-offer-by-sunday.html



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5575 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 14195 times:

Something that nobody has mentioned yet is that the UAE-NL bilaterals are maxed out. By transferring some AMS-India traffic over to 9W, EY could free up some open space on their own aircraft.


Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineJalap From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 355 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 14163 times:

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 13):
One of the best-informed posters here indicated that 9W approached LH first, but LH was asking for too much. If its true, then LH and *A have only themselves to blame. LH really seems to have fluffed its lines in India.

Or this was LH's response to India not allowing them to use A380. Maybe LH just didn't have much reason to be cordial and welcoming to 9W.


User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 13695 times:

If this comes to fruition (especially the HYD link for me out of AMS), it will be fantastic! I have long been hoping that SkyTeam would pick up 9W (and the Indian market) and this seems like a huge step in the right direction. With the Chinese carriers, GA coming online, and possibly this deal with 9W (not withstanding the cooperation with EY on the Kangaroo route), SkyTeam is incredibly well positioned.

From the posted article, I also found this to be incredible if true, "Luchtvaartnieuws reports that KLM CEO Peter Hartman claims that in only four months the two carriers had already booked an additional 10,000 passengers under this agreement"

If these numbers are accurate and continue to grow with additional partnerships with AB and 9W, AFKL might have found a key to digging itself out of its current financial hole. Add into all of this possible cooperation with VS and DL, and I am over the moon!

Regards,

Team



Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently offlinebrightcedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 13430 times:

As far as BRU and SN are concerned I don't think this will be very problematic, quite the contrary.

BRU had become short of longhaul gates in the peak morning hours and had to shorten the Schengen terminal in the morning to allow for SN's Africa fleet to dock there instead.

9W had promised up to 12 B77W's per day coming from half a dozen points in India to half a dozen points in North America, eventually that was reduced from the initial 6 to about 4 smaller jets.

SN is growing its US offering and is establishing itself as the de facto home carrier for that traffic, AA is out, DL won't last, and 9W is now out as well. All the better for SN's codeshare service with AC on YYZ, maybe this will help with splitting up the YYZ and YUL operation between AC and SN.

EY's situation at BRU won't change, they'll cater for traffic as they do and try to funnel India traffic via AUH.

SN can count on LH to offer the India points and could start the route on its own if deemed useful.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 894 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 13266 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):
What motivation would DL/KL have to replace flying done under their JV with a codeshare flown on the metal of a non-JV/non-alliance partner?

It has been reported in the past that the direct SKYTEAM-9W discussions included 9W joining the Transatlantic JV and thus 9W could operate AMS-USA sectors or frequencies on behalf of DL/KL/AF/AZ.

We don't know yet whether this is part of these latest discussions, but it is a distinct possibility.


25 usdcaguy : In my book, DL/AF/KL have a relatively poor offering from the SFO area to India. Hopefully, EY's move will develop into a scenario where either SFO-AU
26 FSDan : What makes you think DL won't last on ATL-BRU and JFK-BRU? I don't see either of those going anywhere in the near future. DL has shown it is willing
27 panamair : DL has hung on to double daily BRU service for years now, even when they could only support a 757 between JFK and BRU. Since then, DL's performance o
28 Post contains images lightsaber : It makes much more sense when you realize the incentive for KL/AF to help feed EY. Combine this with the Chinese airlines at AUH, and we'll see fast
29 brightcedars : You guys are right, DL might last, just because of their sheer size, but I still think SN+UA will eventually command the vast majority of the market.
30 Flying Belgian : And ORD-BRU !! It seems that UA is really really doing well at the moment in BRU. Most of the time their three BRU services are FULL in all proposed
31 Post contains links factsonly : A joint EY/KL press release is now online: ETIHAD: http://www.etihad.com/en/about-us/ne...airways-klm-strategic-partnership/ KLM: http://nieuws.klm.co
32 Post contains links factsonly : Sorry, more developments today..... KLM announces a codeshare agreement with PEGASUS of Turkey. KLM's strategy is starting to look similar to EY..buil
33 Post contains links LAXintl : Yes, some more details in the below linked story. But basically 9W says it will focus on Etihad's network and ties with other carriers and that Amste
34 factsonly : Well.........they happen to be the main AF/KL/AB hubs .....of EY's new partners!
35 AeroWesty : That makes more sense. I remember 8 or 9 years ago when the last US-India bilateral was signed, it allowed for US airlines to hub in Europe for onwar
36 blueflyer : Reading everything that has been linked to so far, I can't tell whether the plan is to move the scissor hub from BRU to AMS or to end the scissor hub
37 Coronado : It will be interesting to see how fast an ATL-AUH or even a DTW-AUH gets rolled out, and for how much longer Delta will serve DXB from ATL.
38 LJ : Only if the need them for AMS-US. No Indian airline is flying between AMS and DEL/BOM thus 9W can use the rights. AFAIK KL doesn't have enough traffi
39 factsonly : What is referred to here is that 9W will add its code to existing DL & KL flights AMS-BOM/DEL. In addition KLM operated AMS-HYD in the past on to
40 Viscount724 : AMS has a much larger network of potential connecting destinations than BRU, and an excellent reputation as an efficient, user-friendly hub.
41 Post contains images ElPistolero : To the many posters who responded to my musings about AMS: Thanks, that was informative. The general consensus seem to be that 9W will benefit from KL
42 airdfw : Could DL have gotten more if it had invested the money in 9W instead of VS? I think both AI and 9W spent valuable time chasing Star dream instead of b
43 SCL767 : Not necessarily. Interestingly, in anticipation of launching the AUH-GRU route next month, EY just sealed a code-share agreement with TAM Linhas Aér
44 Post contains images lightsaber : Natural as in Skyteam? Hey, the link notes AI will restart their bid for *A. That will be fun to watch. What a miss for *A not to pick up 9W. Yea, I
45 LJ : AFAIK the situation in the Dutch - Indian bilatereal is similar to the one with China. It limits flights to certain destinations (in this case BOM/DE
46 factsonly : Read the original post again and you will see it was never suggested KL codeshare to BOM/DEL. It was proposed that 9W would add its code on to DL/KL
47 LJ : I interpreted this as KL putting its code on 9Ws BOM/DEL - AMS. Thanks for the clarification. Yet then we would have the same problem as Indian airli
48 Azure : It may look likely but I would not take it for granted giving EY's averseness to Alliances, bearing in mind EY's stake into 9W. In fact, what substan
49 KL577 : I believe the Dutch-India bilateral allows passenger services to three Indian destinations on a Dutch carrier. BOM and DEL are specified, the third d
50 factsonly : Well, let's give it a go and build two possible 9W/DL/KL scenario's for operations over AMS: -> Scenario 1. Under the current bilaterals. -> Sc
51 Post contains images lightsaber : My opinion is that Skyteam membership will allow an even more extensive codeshare base for 9W. For EY it would make them the de-facto mid-east hub. I
52 Post contains images LJ : I'll go for this option
53 behramjee : Please note that 9W's USA flights in the future will all be routed via AUH except YYZ which will be re-routed via AMS. AMS will act as 9W's primary EU
54 LJ : This is/was also what the rumours mentioned. However the rumours suggest an evening departure ex AMS to BOM as well (thus a BOM - AMS - BOM + DEL - A
55 sankaps : Behramjee -- this is interesting info. Will 9W maintain other India-Europe non-stops as well, eg to LHR?
56 behramjee : of course BOM-LHR and DEL-LHR services will be maintained...those were never going to be suspended. I really hope that at least BOM-BRU remains online
57 sankaps : The prolem with using AMS as a EU hub is that many locations require backtracking. Only the UK is well situated for India-nad AUH flows. A more easter
58 Post contains images TeamInTheSky : Regrettably though, 9W would like to enact their new European strategy before BER's opening date of 2024 Regards, Team
59 Post contains links Viscount724 : Read what EY's CEO said about alliances in an interview just a week or two ago and it's highly unlikely they will be joining any of the existing alli
60 Post contains images anstar : Well AMS offers alot more connectivity than BRU When the DL JV is implemented. The have a lot on their hands currently wtith the launch of domesitc s
61 behramjee : please note that the biggest Europe-India market is the UK and there is no better hub to ensure maximum coverage of the UK is made directly possible
62 JOYA380B747 : Won't happen again. Not enough west bound passengers from CCU that aren't being covered by QR or EK. If the whole KL/DL/EY/9W thing goes through, can
63 sankaps : Yes, agreed. If AMS is used for UK and NW Europe and AUH for Central and Southern Europe, they will have Europe well covered. An excellent plan. AMS
64 factsonly : If this goes through and the Canadian-India bilateral permits additional codesharing, one may certainly expect 9W to codeshare on KL to YYZ, YMX, YYC
65 CaliAtenza : Will Jet be opening any more US destinations, or is it just EWR/JFK for now?
66 delimit : I think membership in Skyteam is not as likely as some here think. Membership in Skyteam and, more importantly, entry into the JV, for 9W actually re
67 Post contains images Karan69 : Yes which if you look at is just one trans atlantic flight from AMS [unfortunately], if the hub moves ahead full swing we should see BOM/DEL/MAA-AMS
68 factsonly : Well, BRU serves 6 UK destinations: EDI, MAN, BHX, EMA, BRS, LHR.
69 Post contains links 15a : http://www.business-standard.com/art...t-s-us-flights-113052700023_1.html As per this, BOM-EWR will move to AUH from BRU as quickly as next month. Als
70 blueflyer : So if I understand well, the scissor hub is being moved to AUH and intra-European connections (with YYZ) are going to AMS. The problem is, if the O&am
71 JOYA380B747 : So you mean to say the DEL-AUH-JFK will be the add-on service as of June? Also what metal would be used on these flights DEL/BOM-AUH-JFK/EWR, the trip
72 Prost : The US and India have open skies.
73 Prost : The US and India have open skies.
74 Nimish : The sooner 9W operationalize their new "strategy" and move their ops to AUH, the better for everyone involved. Next month is not too quick, but not t
75 CaliAtenza : EY already flies to ORD from AUH; which can be reached from BLR on EY. I am assuming this is just the addition of seats.
76 DIJKKIJK : They are Surinamese, not Indians, and their links to India aren't that great. Even so, the presence of a diaspora does not ensure airline traffic. Ne
77 CaliAtenza : Also, hopefully Jet can expand its US destinations; really hoping for them to start LAX and return to SFO. I know they would have started LAX had the
78 Karan69 : There are plans to Wet lease some of Jets 777s, EY anyways wanted Jet to operate AUH-GRU on their behalf Also I guess they wont start JFK/ORD themsel
79 lightsaber : I still think Skyteam is likely as DL will keep with the JV either way. That is a far more profitable route sharing than will happen even within an a
80 Azure : It is not what I have read elsewhere. Yes and no. It may ensure traffic, but very irregularly during the year and generally a low-yielding one. But m
81 Viscount724 : Since 2005.
82 Nimish : So besides a newspaper article (and those don't mean much in India), is there anything else that indicates what 9W is planning? If they're looking to
83 LJ : I doubt it will be in 1 months time as the article mentions "subject to government apporval" and we haven't seen any DOT filing (wouldn't this be req
84 DIJKKIJK : 9W or not, that is one route that will never come back. It was one of KL's lowest yielding ones, and with EK doing 3X daily DXB-HYD, that market is c
85 delimit : Maybe. I definitely see SkyTeam as in 9W's best interests. I just think EY complicates the issue. Is 9W in SkyTeam good for EY (beyond, obviously, RO
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Jet Airways Postpones BOM-BRU-EWR To July End posted Tue Jun 14 2005 00:11:31 by LAXDESI
Thomas Cook Airlines Move From SFB To MCO? posted Thu Apr 25 2013 10:28:57 by planefixer
Etihad Buys Jet Airways LHR Slots posted Thu Feb 28 2013 15:39:21 by LAXintl
Shouldn't Ryanair Move From BVA To ORY Or CDG? posted Thu Nov 15 2012 03:18:18 by LY777
Atlantic Airways Moving From STN To LGW posted Tue Feb 14 2012 13:58:30 by LGWflyer
KLM MD-11 From HEL To AMS? posted Wed Dec 23 2009 17:39:25 by KL911
Will AS Move From EWR To JFK posted Tue Sep 22 2009 03:53:07 by Rgreenftm
KLM Loads From YYC To AMS posted Mon Jun 15 2009 20:23:22 by Planecrazy777
Jet Airways Reduces BOM-SFO To 5 Weekly posted Thu Aug 21 2008 09:51:54 by Behramjee
U.S. Carriers Move From LGW To LHR posted Thu Jan 24 2008 01:59:19 by RampGuy