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EU Seek To Fine Chinese & Indian Carriers Over ETS  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25398 posts, RR: 49
Posted (1 year 4 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3712 times:

Europe is threatening to fine 8 Chinese airlines and 2 Indian carriers for failure to comply with EU-ETS regulations.

Both China and India have barred their airlines from cooperating with European regulators including failing make required activity reports.

On Friday, the EU said it would seek about €2.4 million in fines against the Chinese and Indian carriers.

Of course both the Chinese and Indian governments have said they stand behind their carriers and would consider "reciprocal measures" if the EU continued to push its unilateral actions.
For example Indian carriers have 5-6 daily operations in Europe, while European counter parts have 30-40 operations in India, which could be prove costly.


Stories
8 Chinese, 2 Indian airlines face EU pollution fines
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...s-face-eu-pollution-fines-20130517

Govt oppose EU threat to fine
http://articles.economictimes.indiat...ia-jet-airways-two-indian-carriers

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From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinetravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3504 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3605 times:

I thought the US Congress actually barred US airlines from complying with the EU-ETS regulations. No threat of a fine for US carriers?

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25398 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3576 times:

US carriers are participating with all the behind the scenes requirements still (at the urging of the DOT).

The show down will come if and when EU lifts the program suspension and starts making US airline pay for their operations.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3541 times:
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I thought the EU had suspended implementation for a year. Has that year come and gone already, or am I missing something else?


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineEI564 From Ireland, joined May 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 23 hours ago) and read 3301 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 3):
I thought the EU had suspended implementation for a year. Has that year come and gone already, or am I missing something else?

The EU is talking about intra-EU flights.

Quote:
On Friday, it made clear, however, that non-EU airlines were still liable to pay for pollution on flights made within the EU.

For example, a Chinese airline may land in Athens first and then fly on to Munich to pick up passengers before returning to the home destination.

Further details http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...bb17ddd88459e17c490f04264d653.a21.


User currently offlinehohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 2 hours ago) and read 2906 times:

Only applies if Indian and Chinese carriers carry passengers or fly between two EU cities.

User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Good luck to the EU with that one. Carbon trading schemes are inane to begin with and the EU doesn't have the stones to start a trade war based on the nonsensical ETS.

Every time Brussels brings up the ETS, I wonder from what they're trying to distract our attention.



What the...?
User currently offlineEI564 From Ireland, joined May 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 6):
Carbon trading schemes are inane to begin with and the EU doesn't have the stones to start a trade war based on the nonsensical ETS.

We'll see. Since the EU is simply talking about intra-EU flights, they seem very entitled to do what they want.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2633 times:

Quoting EI564 (Reply 7):
We'll see. Since the EU is simply talking about intra-EU flights, they seem very entitled to do what they want.

True...but really, what can they do? What if they just tell the EU to go blow?



What the...?
User currently offlineEI564 From Ireland, joined May 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

I'm sure the EU could withdraw their intra-EU flying rights. It would be interesting to see China bid to dictate how intra-EU flights should be charged.

These things normally get sorted before trade wars start anyhow. And even if they did start, China's response might be equally trivial.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2379 times:

Quoting EI564 (Reply 9):

From my understanding, the EU itself has no standing since they don't have any air services agreement with the countries in question. It would be up to an individual EU country where the offending airline flies to enforce the scheme.

So what country will tell the Indians to pay up? Germany? France?... The same with China....


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2228 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 6):
Every time Brussels brings up the ETS, I wonder from what they're trying to distract our attention.

They distract attention from the same thing they're talking about.

Look at what we're doing for the environment !

While in practice nothing gets done, or worse some schemes actually destroy the environment (like "bio"fuels and "bio"gas that leads to more deforestation).



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

BTW,

What intra-EU tag flights are flown by Indian and Chinese carriers?


User currently offlinesimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Quoting hohd (Reply 5):
Only applies if Indian and Chinese carriers carry passengers or fly between two EU cities.
Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 12):
What intra-EU tag flights are flown by Indian and Chinese carriers?

Having managed EU ETS compliance for a major airline, it doesn't matter if these are scheduled or unscheduled flights. If there is a diversion into an unscheduled airport and then the aircraft repositions to the scheduled airport, it is considered an intra-EU flight.

Example: if LHR runways are closed and Air India diverts to AMS and then flies the aircraft to AMS, Air India is responsible for the AMS-LHR emissions because it's between two EU airports.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 13):

Now that I think about it, I guess it is probably mostly cargo flights, like CA's AMS-ZAZ leg.

I just could not think of any pax flights with such tags by any of those countries airlines.


User currently offlinesimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 10):
So what country will tell the Indians to pay up? Germany? France?... The same with China....

It would be the U.K. for Indian carriers, and Germany for Chinese carriers.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2025 times:

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 15):

How do you figure that?

Not saying you are wrong, but are Indian carriers using LHR or other UK airports for intra EU flights?

Same question for Germany and Chinese carriers.

IIANM, Each carrier would have to be cited by a country where they fly intra EU flights from or to.


User currently offlineEI564 From Ireland, joined May 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1931 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 16):
IIANM, Each carrier would have to be cited by a country where they fly intra EU flights from or to.

All those countries have signed up to ETS, so I suppose they will cite them if required.


User currently offlineGr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3107 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1850 times:

Quoting hohd (Reply 5):
Only applies if Indian and Chinese carriers carry passengers or fly between two EU cities.
Quoting EI564 (Reply 9):
I'm sure the EU could withdraw their intra-EU flying rights

To the best of my knowledge, neither AI nor 9W operates any intra-Euro flights........those are the only 2 Indian carriers flying into Europe....


User currently offlinecjg225 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1781 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 16):

How do you figure that?

Not saying you are wrong, but are Indian carriers using LHR or other UK airports for intra EU flights?

Same question for Germany and Chinese carriers.

IIANM, Each carrier would have to be cited by a country where they fly intra EU flights from or to.

I believe that's because enforcement of the ETS is divided up amongst various EU countries. Carriers are allocated to various countries who enforce against those airlines; there isn't a central enforcement agency of the EU for the ETS.



Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 6):
Good luck to the EU with that one. Carbon trading schemes are inane to begin with and the EU doesn't have the stones to start a trade war based on the nonsensical ETS.

Every time Brussels brings up the ETS, I wonder from what they're trying to distract our attention.

Got to agree with you here; I had thought this nonsense had been buried, but of course I underestimate the ability of the EU to shoot itself in the foot. The EU is a few grades above being a financial basket-case and it needs to maximise trade and commerce; this works against that and the harder they push it, the more damaging it will be.

This is very typical of the sort of unaccountable nonsense that will drive the UK out of the EU - not this alone, of course, but so many things which are imposed but which have no democratic mandate. However, this one is worthy of particular note because it is something which is likely to cause job losses and a competitive disadvantage to European trade, tourism and other areas.

Drop it, for goodness sake, and get with the real world.


User currently offlineEI564 From Ireland, joined May 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1535 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 20):
Drop it, for goodness sake, and get with the real world.

I'm pretty sure that ETS is dealing with a real world issue. And i'm pretty sure that the UK government is very much on board. Its strange how often people don't realise that the EU is just reflecting the wishes of its various members.

If the UK government has so much difficulty doing something about LHR, it shouldn't surprise anyone that it supports ETS.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

What is undemocratic is the total openness of our borders trade wise, that may be what UK citizens want, but I'm pretty sure an EU wide referendum on that would be lost.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1506 times:

I did not sign any ETS treaty and I am a citizen of the european soviet republic..

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