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Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!  
User currently offlinejdflyvc10 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 102 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 27908 times:

Bula!

Was at the FJ A330-200 event last night at LAX. Great new product, Biz class you want row 1, and Economy seats/VOD is super! FIJI Airways has a wonderful new product!

After the open house, the boys and I hit the IN-N-OUT next to 24R. Two words "Animal Fries". This aviation honk, like us, started chatting about planes after he heard our conversation. He told us he was a mechanic for HA at HNL and was plane spotting on the west coast.

Then from nowhere came, "did you hear about Hawaiians lease for 777?" Huh, what... no. "YA, six are going to be leased, with the 1st arriving by the end of the year for the new international expansion" he said. "I thought Zander release that information already, because we had Boeing guys at the shop right before I left".

We did find hard to believe, but HA is making "BANK" on the northwest Pacific, one never knows.

Vanuinui vinaka ki na siga ni kua


A Day Without Sunshine Is Like....NIGHT!
138 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10010 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 27814 times:

I find this very hard to believe as HA already has the A350 on order. If it was actually true, I'm sure this news would have been known/published by now.

A388


User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 27705 times:

Not going to get my hopes up, but this could actually make a lot of sense for them. It's very believable. They could feel that 2017 is too long for the capabilities the A358 will offer them. They have 6 A358s on order. They could simply lease these 777s for 3-4 years, or incorporate into their long term fleet strategy, possibly accelerating 767 retirements or converting them to A332 orders. Or just taking them all.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15841 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 27545 times:

Quoting jdflyvc10 (Thread starter):
Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Highly unlikely.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12898 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 27390 times:
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I think there are three options here:

1 - it's not happening.
2 - ha ha ha, pull the other one.
3 - oink oink flap, is that a flying pig I just saw?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6617 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 27116 times:
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This makes absolutely no sense. Maybe one for a specific route, like LA going for 5 A340s for very particular routes they needed to fly nonstop, but 6 777s on an airline with the network size of HA and A350s on order? Not gonna happen. That mechanic was having some fun.

User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 27025 times:

Uh, this makes far too much sense to simply dismiss like an outlandish practical joke...

Not saying its going to happen or I often believe these employee stories, but there are ample reasons to do it. Aircraft with 50+ more seats for profitable Asian routes and longer range instead of waiting 4-5 years for it.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 26892 times:
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Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
I find this very hard to believe as HA already has the A350 on order. If it was actually true, I'm sure this news would have been known/published by now.

If HA is leasing, then it could be interim lift until the A350s arrive.


User currently offlinemcoatc From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 199 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 26704 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2):
They have 6 A358s on order. They could simply lease these 777s for 3-4 years, or incorporate into their long term fleet strategy, possibly accelerating 767 retirements or converting them to A332 orders. Or just taking them all.

I highly doubt Boeing would be interested in a 3-4 year lease of new frames. What other than the 772ER would HA be interested in? The 77W is a beast and a massive upguage in capacity, and I cannot see them needing the 77L.

There is no way Boeing is going to short-term lease new 772's because they're not really in demand now, let alone 5 years from now. That's 6 fairly new birds that have to be placed again in 5 years, when most carriers are going to be dumping theirs. I could see this being placement of used frames, but then again why wouldn't they just go back to Airbus and get their hands on more A332's?

I cannot see them wanting to replace a 763 with a 772, that's a lot more weight you're carrying around. Then again, I don't run HA, so what do I know.


User currently offlineBeachBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 26678 times:

I think he was joking.

Zander was the CEO of AQ just before Banmiller who liquidated it. Dunkerley is the current HA CEO.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 26610 times:
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Quoting mcoatc (Reply 8):
I highly doubt Boeing would be interested in a 3-4 year lease of new frames.

Boeing does not typically lease airplanes directly to customers.

As to commercial lessors who do, ALC has 10 777-300ERs on recent order, of which one is going to KL. So that leaves a possible nine available for other customers (assuming HA is interested in a 777-300ER).


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10010 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 26531 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
I find this very hard to believe as HA already has the A350 on order. If it was actually true, I'm sure this news would have been known/published by now.

If HA is leasing, then it could be interim lift until the A350s arrive.

I was thinking of that too but leasing brandnew 777's is expensive, especially when it's only for 3-4 years. Does HA want to lease such a big airplane just for 3-4 years? Keeping them permanent also means going away from their road to standardizing around Airbus so when looking at this, it also makes no sense to add another aircraft type to the fleet, especially a small fleet of 6 that is claimed here.

A388


User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 26490 times:

Didn't HA and Boeing get in some pissing match and that's why HA bought the A330's to begin with?

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8517 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 26492 times:
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The only reason Hawaiian would get 777 is to fly to Europe from HNL. They need them for the distance not the higher capacity from an A330-200. Hawaiian fits lots of seats into their A330-200, their First Class is 45 inch pitch like domestic First nothing like international J class.

User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2374 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 26316 times:

Quoting mcoatc (Reply 8):
There is no way Boeing is going to short-term lease new 772's because they're not really in demand now, let alone 5 years from now. That
Quoting A388 (Reply 11):
I was thinking of that too but leasing brandnew 777's is expensive

While I don't necessarily believe the rumor, leasing 777s doesn't necessarily mean they are brand new.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6359 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 25873 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 15):

While I don't necessarily believe the rumor, leasing 777s doesn't necessarily mean they are brand new.

Won't EK have some 773 coming onto the market soon?



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineN821NW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 25591 times:

I have a really hard time believing this for the following reasons:
1. HA plan is to have a ALL Airbus long-haul fleet.
2. You would need to train a few crews to be certified for a sub-fleet that would only last 3-4 years, and that would be very expensive to do.
3. You would need to train a few mechanics to work on a sub-fleet that is only in service for 3-4 years, again this would very expensive to do.
4. With all the money HA would invest in a) leasing the 6 T7's b) training the crews c) training the mechanics would they even make a profit?

P.S.: You might want to take my statements with a grain of salt considering I'm a die hard Airbus fan   


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 25394 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2):
Not going to get my hopes up, but this could actually make a lot of sense for them. It's very believable. They could feel that 2017 is too long for the capabilities the A358 will offer them.

So they won't convert to A359 because the A359 is too big, but they'll take 777's instead?  
Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 6):
Not saying its going to happen or I often believe these employee stories, but there are ample reasons to do it. Aircraft with 50+ more seats for profitable Asian routes and longer range instead of waiting 4-5 years for it.

They won't have to wait 4-5 years if they convert to A359. See above  
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
The only reason Hawaiian would get 777 is to fly to Europe from HNL.

Wouldn't the A359 do that better?

For such a small fleet it would make a lot more sense to lease A333's or even A346's if they were looking for interim capacity.


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4416 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 25293 times:

This rumour is just that a rumour that is unfounded no matter the source. A mechanic? A pilot. A F/A. Any rumours coming from these guys are useless.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 25229 times:
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Quoting N821NW (Reply 17):
You would need to train a few crews to be certified for a sub-fleet that would only last 3-4 years, and that would be very expensive to do.

They have to train the 767-300 pilots on the A330-200 and I expect also training some of them on the 777 would not be a great hardship.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6359 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 25119 times:

Lets dream a little....a 773 in HA colors at LAX would be beautiful


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2374 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 24919 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
They won't have to wait 4-5 years if they convert to A359. See above

If A350 production slots are full until 2017(note I do not know if that is true or not) converting their order to the A359 won't get them in their hands any faster. Even if slots are available an order conversion to something with an earlier EIS doesn't necessarily move them up in the production.

[Edited 2013-05-22 15:40:50]

User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1040 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 24007 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 13):
The only reason Hawaiian would get 777 is to fly to Europe from HNL. They need them for the distance not the higher capacity from an A330-200. Hawaiian fits lots of seats into their A330-200, their First Class is 45 inch pitch like domestic First nothing like international J class.

You seriously do not believe that Europeans want to fly 16-17 hours to go to the beach do you?
During the off season its hard enough to convince people on the East Coast of the US to make the 10 hour journey to Hawaii when they could be in the Caribbean in 3-4 hours. If Europeans want a fun in the sun beach vacation I'm sure there are a lot of destinations that are a whole lot closer than a 16-17 hour nonstop flight to Hawaii.
And just out of curiosity how much would a round trip ticket in coach go for at today's current fuel prices on a flight like that? It most certainly would not be cheap because Hawaiian would need to charge enough to cover their own cost and then hope to make a profit on a plane that would have very few premium seats. There has been a lot of talk in previous threads on A.netters about one or two airlines wanting operating a Hawaii to Europe nonstop but how would they do a flight of this length profitably in a market that is dominated by cost conscious leisure travelers? And even if the airlines could do a flight like this profitably how would they convince passengers that Hawaii is worth the 16-17 hour flight. If you can't convince people of that it doesn't matter what type aircraft you use, you still are going to loosing money because your flying a plane filled with empty seats.


User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 22684 times:

why not try and lease some more A330s instead?

User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1041 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 21622 times:

who said HA would be looking at NEW planes... they could be getting USED planes... who knows.


xx
25 RayChuang : I really doubt HA will get the 777--the plane is too big for the airline. I think in the longer term, HA will phase out their entire 767 fleet in favo
26 Post contains links brilondon : They are not going to fly direct to HNL from LHR as discussed before. UK To HNL, Is There A Market? (by readytotaxi Jan 12 2013 in Civil Aviation)
27 Post contains images lightsaber : This sounds like too much beer or other mind altering substance was consumed. And small A358s at that... We've found a home for EK's used 773s! (non-E
28 slcdeltarumd11 : I would think at best it could be a bridge and short term. Why on earth would they want both 777s and A350s? I guess we will find out soon enough if i
29 jpetekyxmd80 : Sure they do. SYD and HND would be perfect for a 777.
30 zotan : Not happening. There has been absolutely zero talk in the industry about this. People would have heard by now.
31 JAAlbert : I am the first to admit that I'm no aviation expert, but the 77W seems much too large for Hawaiian's operations. What routes could they use the 77W o
32 Schweigend : . . . I agree with all three of you. It is entirely plausible that HA might lease used 772ERs to fly Austral-Asian routes until the A350s arrive. But
33 columba : I too have a hard time believing this. The only thing which might be a possibilty that it is a short time lease till their A350s arrive.
34 koruman : Millions already do. Check the statistics. Huge numbers of Europeans travel each year for tropical vacations in Bali, Malaysia, Thailand, the Maldive
35 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Wow. A rumor of HA getting 777's turns into an "ignorant Americans" diatribe. Knock me over with a feather. -Dave
36 saloman : You did a poor job of expressing your point if that wasn't its intent. Nor did you anywhere address the fact that the previous thread on the topic in
37 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Since the rumored buy/lease did not specify the model, could it be connected with this? ..... http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...india-boeing-idU
38 HNL-Jack : As do many of the posts here, I suspect this is another employee rumor which it seems like many of us associated with the airline industry relish in s
39 oldeuropean : Hahaha, yeah sure, and I remember the rumours spread by an other "HA mechanic", that HA wanted to get rid of the A330s ASAP. We had a tread about thi
41 Post contains links HNLPointShoot : This. The "mechanic" in question was probably messing around.
42 chrisair : You really believe someone that randomly approaches you in a park? If so, I'll be in Los Angeles soon. Hopefully you'll be there because I have a ver
43 EA CO AS : Not really, sorry.
44 JerseyFlyer : AI are leasing out some 77Ls. Will they have 6 left after that? These could be excellent interim lift before the 358s arrive for direct flights to Eur
45 Post contains images airbazar : I do get your point but your questions were a little too ridiculous and your post may have lost some credibility. But I agree that American's leisure
46 frigatebird : I couldn't help thinking about AI's 77L reading this thread. Guess they haven't found a home yet? IIRC, Airbus still has more orders for the A358 tha
47 aztrainer : While when I first read this my first opinion was no way. Upon more reflection could HA use a 777 on their higher density SYD flights and then augment
48 jayunited : There are millions of people living in the UK and only 45K visit Hawaii annually not very expressive. And if the UK to Hawaii market is so lucrative
49 saloman : I'd admit that that number was higher than I expected and is rather impressive, but the point is that it still likely won't warrant the cost of an ul
50 Post contains links Devilfish : Guess they haven't if they were seeking Boeing's help in placing those. Should they manage to sell/lease six to seven frames, then 1 or 2 might find
51 Post contains images jmc1975 : Not given how expensive they would be. The 332s adequately and efficiently serve both SYD & HND.
52 airbazar : It doesn't matter how many people there are in the UK. 45,000 annually is still quite impressive when you consider that one litterall has to go out o
53 777STL : I'm not convinced such a route would be economical. It's far too long and expensive when Europeans have plenty of closer options. I agree with you in
54 BestWestern : And what proportion of these visiting Bali are on a multi-stop asian holiday or on student / 20's working visas to Australia? And what proportion of
55 saloman : I don't discount the possibility of subsidies making a non-stop a reality at some point, but the economics obviously have yet to line up which tells
56 AADC10 : Where did it say they were new? They could be some ratty 772As on lease return. Why only Europe? I thought their biggest foreign market is Japan.
57 JAAlbert : Maybe the rest of the UK population is waiting for an airline like HA to come along! Europeans fly extraordinarily long distances to get to a beach -
58 scbriml : I doubt they'd have the required range,
59 BestWestern : 1 - As part of a multi-stop holiday. 2 - Many live in Asia already. 3 - Thailand has other attractions over and beyond the beach. 4 - BKK is heavily
60 woodsboy : Being a 40 yr visitor to Hawaii and now a part time resident (splitting time between Hawaii and Alaska) I must say that I run across so few Europeans
61 777STL : Not to mention, there are very few ways to get to Hawaii from Europe without an overnight somewhere in the states as almost all Hawaii bound flights
62 koruman : Very low, in terms of students and travelers to Australia, apart from UK and Irish nationals. Multi-stops are far more common, but mainly because the
63 koruman : You raise an interesting point about the demographics of long-haul flights for a predominantly leisure market. And again, without wishing to demonise
64 Post contains images CXB77L : Who said anything about brand new 777s? They could very well be used 'A' or 'B' market frames which some airlines are withdrawing from use. The 777-2
65 azjubilee : I think this thread is silly... but I'll bite. ASSUMING there is plausibility in this rumor any 777 would be to complement the 332, 321 and dwindling
66 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I'll have to tell my retired, 70-something in-laws in Seattle that their recent trips to the South Pacific, Central America, Portugal, and Spain are
67 Post contains images n901wa : I wonder who the Mech was? Bula'ia? (He's a Hawaiian comedian) If Hawaiian did decide to start using the 777, I suspect that they could do what they d
68 mariner : But it needn't be just UK (or Europe)-HNL. It would be an extremely pleasant way to get from the UK to NZ or even Australia, with a great stopover in
69 jpetekyxmd80 : That is an EXCELLENT point. I've thought about their developing trans-pacific connectivity, but i'd forgotten to put two and two together within this
70 PassedV1 : The 767 is a completely different type from the 777...the amount of training to go from a 767 to a 777 is the same as going from a 767 to an A330. At
71 mariner : Perhaps because some of the best beaches are closer to - or within - US territory? Missing from the debate is that (a) Britain is a tiny, crowded isl
72 koruman : But again, it depends upon whether you are looking for a wallow in a sandpit or wish to add other dimensions to a beach vacation. If you consider Spa
73 mariner : There is wonderful historical context in Mexico. I fell in love with Mexico City when I first went there and saw things that I have never seen anywhe
74 koruman : Mariner, For once I'm agreeing with you! My disagreement was with earlier posters who said "people don't even travel from the US East Coast to Hawaii,
75 Post contains images sweair : In the good old days HNL was a refueling point on many routes to Australia and other places. Yet I can see the use going from there to Europe in a non
76 Post contains images mariner : Ah, you had me fooled, K'man, and confused at the end. You've lost me there, though. I think the concept works for Hawaiian as a US airline based in
77 koruman : Mariner, I do think that the Australia/NZ/UK markets to Hawaii remain incompletely tapped. As an earlier poster wrote, in the days before Trans-Pacifi
78 sweair : How many hours would the LHR-HNL leg be? IIRC the CPH-LAX leg of SK was about 11 hours?
79 HAL : HNL - LHR would be in the neighborhood of 14:00 to 14:30 either way. Long, but not intolerable. HAL P.S. I think the 777 rumor is someone's idea of a
80 koruman : As I wrote earlier, hundreds of thousands of British people vacation in Bali or Phuket or Penang in Southeast Asia every year. They route via SIN, KU
81 BestWestern : You cannot compare Europe to South East Asia to Europe to Hawaii. I would wager that a sizable proportion of European's visiting Bali are Irish and UK
82 mariner : I'm not sure why you're trying to sell HNL to me. I like it there, I like what Hawaiian is doing there. I think it is a good market. Maybe it is an u
83 jfk777 : Since its so outrageous that Hawaiian get 777 the only plausible reason is the need to fly to Europe. LHR to HNL would probably be 14 hours not 16. P
84 Post contains images scbriml : Certainly not intolerable for a direct flight. The pax numbers quoted earlier in this thread would, without expansion, be enough to support something
85 Post contains images BestWestern : Oh stop name dropping!!!!!! If they are accurate....
86 koruman : Mariner, no-one is arguing that the Condor end of the market is what Hawaiian or Hawaii could make a profit out of. But let me give you an illustrati
87 Post contains images airbazar : As well as Europe-Hawaii for reasons that I've already posted (lack of marketing, lack of non-stop flights, lots of other destinations). Simply put t
88 sweair : A 788 could probably do the LHR-HNL route, if the 777 is too big..230 seats or so. Imagine a 788 with the MTOW of the 789 or 787-10, that will be one
89 bluesky73 : Just got back from HNL and did the usual west coast stop offs. Would love an LHR/LGW - HNL direct flight. Maybe something for BA or Thompson to look a
90 scbriml : Ha ha. It was germane to the discussion because it illustrated that a 12-hour non-stop in economy from London to Mauritius was not a problem for us,
91 HNL-Jack : On HA they would not have to forego food or IFE.
92 PlanesNTrains : Well, that seals it for me. It sounded odd anyhow. -Dave
93 Post contains images mariner : I still don't know what you're trying to prove - beyond the fact that there are no non-stops LHR-HNL, which I already know, nor would I chose your ro
94 jpetekyxmd80 : So despite knowingly traveling to a (what some would call) comparable destination to the Caribbean at approximately twice the price and twice the dis
95 jayunited : It is amazing reading this thread and how many people are defending Hawaii to Europe nonstop service and how Europeans say they are already use to lon
96 koruman : The issue is the same one which has seen Qantas and Air New Zealand drop their Honolulu - Los Angeles sectors: American cabotage laws. Leisure flight
97 Post contains links and images Polot : You are of course right. Whenever I think European traveler I think high class. View Large View MediumPhoto © Daniel Hamer
98 jpetekyxmd80 : I've never seen person say so little in so many words. When a problem that can be overcome by buying a sandwich at the airport is a deal breaker, you
99 777STL : I'd venture to guess you and your family's experience up in your ivory tower isn't indicative of all European or Australians as a whole. Oh really? A
100 Post contains links and images mariner : You've changed your tune, K'man: US Majors- Who Is Considered One? (by stealth777 Oct 29 2010 in Civil Aviation) Post #13 by Koruman: "Everyone seems
101 Polot : I didn't notice this earlier, but you might want to check again which journey is "slightly longer".
102 koruman : Most options are like this: even the LAX option involves 100 minutes from landing from London to boarding for Honolulu, again in which passengers mus
103 mariner : That's not so on Virgin Australia. The more expensive Flexi fares, yes, but Saver and Saver Lite SYD-PER no not include food or beverages (other than
104 jpetekyxmd80 : Are you for real? "The" LAX option? United and American both offer multiple evening departures to HNL. If you don't like a shorter connection, wait f
105 Polot : I'm well aware that not all European tourists travel like that. But for some reason you seem to think that Hawaii markets itself as some tourist dest
106 jpetekyxmd80 : Come on, this is a joke, right? You're not serious..
107 koruman : No Mariner, you've misunderstood. I'm not saying that Hawaiian's Economy product isn't good enough, not at all. It still is. I'm saying that long-hau
108 Post contains links koruman : Actually, you're wrong. Transcontinental flights to Perth get food and IFE. http://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en...12/VA-MAJORENHANCEMENTS-TRANS-PER/
109 mariner : Then you'd better tell Virgin Australia that their booking engine is wrong, because I had a dummy booking for late June SYD-PER open as I was making
110 Polot : Where are those statistics? If almost half of all passengers are willing to pay extra money for Qantas then how come QF only flies to HNL 3x weekly v
111 jpetekyxmd80 : Koruman, you are having your cake and eating it to. You are claiming European travelers are educated about all the pitfalls of getting to Hawaii, and
112 koruman : Sydney to Honolulu: a) Full-service Economy with meals, IFE and included baggage Hawaiian 7 x A330 weekly Qantas 3 x 767 weekly b) Buy On Board Econo
113 777STL : Respectfully, you've proven my point as well Koruman. Second home on Maui? Rarely flying economy? I'm guessing most Australians or Europeans don't ro
114 Post contains images RyanairGuru : Well I guess I'm just yet another dumb stupid American and it reflects "little credit" on me In terms of amazing scenery and good times, I find it ha
115 Polot : That doesn't prove your point at all- you have no clue if the passengers are booking those Y seats for the service versus finding a competitive price
116 koruman : I wasn't meaning to be antagonistic. I love visiting America, and I have a huge soft spot for Americans. I can't remember a year when I didn't go to
117 RyanairGuru : Don't let that fool you. On this I'm with Koruman, QF only being 3x has a lot more to do with internal politics within Qantas which I won't detail he
118 Post contains images rjm717 : I have been meaning to jump in here before a moderator somewhere locks the thread for being off topic. On the 777 topic - ain't going to happen, perio
119 koruman : Let me refine my earlier post: a) Weekly full-service seats SYD-HNL Qantas 3 x 767-300 = 3 x (25 Business + 204 Economy) = 75 Business + 612 Economy
120 Darksnowynight : Wow, for such a stupid rumor, we sure have a great thread going! Maybe. But then, maybe not. My company does all mainland MX for the HA 767 fleet, and
121 AngMoh : When you talk about Thomas Cook, Thomson and Monarch, you need to realize that the bulk of people flying them never bought a ticket with them. They b
122 Post contains links BestWestern : 120 posts, and not one statistic on visitors from the UK http://files.hawaii.gov/dbedt/visito...ims/Country%20Quarterly%202012.pdf 46k brits arrived i
123 koruman : Firstly, I really doubt that 90% went to the Big Island. Somehow, I suspect that 80%+ went to Oahu. Secondly, I suspect that 95%+ were UK residents:
124 BestWestern : Very few of the UK pasengers to Hawaii flew on international flights. There are millions of UK residents living around the world, travelling on UK pa
125 Post contains links BestWestern : 10% of UK nationals live abroad. 1.3m live in the US or Canada. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/h...th/brits_abroad/html/n_america.stm BRITS ABROA
126 koruman : Isn't that obvious? The choice is to arrive on a US mainland - Hawaii domestic flight, or else circumnavigate the globe and get there via Asia or Aus
127 bluesky73 : I am British and as mentioned above just got back from Hawaii. Absolutely amazing and want to go back. In the whole two weeks we were at Oahu and Maui
128 BestWestern : Less than 90% of brits live in the UK, which includes Scotland, and Northern Ireland. At most, 40% of British population is served by Gatwick, the na
129 Post contains links BestWestern : Looks like my 39 estimate is really accurate. Here is some actual statistics for London. http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation Poin
130 mariner : It's a tough, but it isn't impossible. Since 1976 I've watched Phuket - HKT - grow from nothing much more than a collection of Thai fishing villages
131 Post contains images lightsaber : But is that enough for the economics of a long term subfleet? You could add LAX and JFK to that list and still the economics are not good enough. If
132 Post contains images AngMoh : First, LH and AF are business focussed, and there is no significant business travel to BKK. There is loads of leisure travel and they are not set up
133 koruman : Thanks for the compliment. But I'm not arguing for First Class flat-beds to Hawaii. I'm actually arguing for decent-quality Economy Class products in
134 BestWestern : Not alone do you not believe that one city is not viable, you now propose than HA launch seven cities.... Oh this is so far beyond the realms of real
135 koruman : I didn't say seven cities today, or daily. I said that ultimately on a 230 seater there could be multiple viable ports. Starting probably with London
136 QANTAS747-438 : Is this thread about the rumored HA 777 order or whether Europe is better than the US?
137 rjm717 : Like I said, but hey, it's an entertaining discussion. One thing I should add on Americans' willingness to travel domestically Vs international - I h
138 koruman : Qantas747 My point is that the 788 would be right-sized for Europe, but the 350 and any 777 are too big.
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