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Final Day For T3 At JFK!  
User currently offlineaviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1351 posts, RR: 12
Posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14184 times:

At long last. Thursday will be the last day of regular operations at JFK's terminal 3!

On one hand the occasion is melancholy, but I am NOT among those who feel that T3 ought to have been preserved. Yes, as the former Pan Am Worldport it's a somewhat historic building. But architecturally, no, it's certainly not on a par with Saarinen's TWA building, or even I.M. Pei's demolished National Airlines terminal (the original terminal 5). It's tough to mourn the loss of T3. It was, by the end, an ugly, claustrophobic, very dysfunctional facility.

Still, while JFK is a "nicer" airport now, in a generic sort of way, it's losing more and more of the character and personality that the older generation terminals provided: Pan Am's T3, Saarinen's TWA, Pei's National, and of course the old American Airlines terminal, with its giant stained glass window (it was largest in the world!).

I've read that the zodiac sign designs that used to adorn the fence/wall in front of T3 are currently stored in a JFK hangar. I hope they don't discard them. Man, I'd like to own one of those, if only I had a place to store or display it.

There's an essay in my new book that talks about JFK and the aesthetic of its terminals -- particularly the horror of T5 -- if anybody's interested.

Farewell, Terminal 3.


-- Patrick Smith


Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14058 times:

It's sad to see the Worldport go but demolishing it solves a lot of congestion issues at a very packed airport. Maybe if JFK wasn't such a mess we could have preserved it, too bad. Hope this really helps DL's ops up there


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineKirkseattle From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13980 times:

I'm kinda glad to see it go. For me, the security, walkways and gates were so outdated and more like a herd moving through a hallway. Oh, I hope they get the birds out of there near gates 1, 2, 3 and the teens. I'm sure they will miss the Burger King goodies. First time a bird dropped at my feet - freaked, me, out!   

Cheers,
KirkSeattle


User currently offlinebomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13954 times:

Are there plans to put something on the former site of T3?

Peace   



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9297 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13833 times:

Good bye T3....I just wish i could push the big red button myself.

or maybe not, who knows what kind of toxic crap is in that building.

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 3):

hard stands replacing what was lost to extend T4B



yep.
User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13677 times:

I do not know what makes some of you so sure that T3's rotunda would not be preserved.
Why would DL and PANYNJ hurt their images making a hugely controversial demolition?
By the way, their point of view about the umbrella building has not been linear.


User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3256 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13625 times:

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 5):
I do not know what makes some of you so sure that T3's rotunda would not be preserved.
Why would DL and PANYNJ hurt their images making a hugely controversial demolition?

Yeah. It's not hugely controversial. Pretty much no one cares.


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3010 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13222 times:

T3 may have been a hell-hole structurally, but it IS still significant architecture and should be saved in some way!! Take lots of pics of it while you still can, if you value airline history.


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlinedsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13182 times:

JFK is a dump and there is no glory in T3. Pan Am is long dead and for good reason, so just because they parked planes there isn't a reason to save a building. Architecturally speaking, what is there worth preserving other than the saucer roof, perhaps?


GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3010 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13160 times:

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 6):
Yeah. It's not hugely controversial. Pretty much no one cares.

You have to realize that not everyone has the warm fuzzies for airline history the way some of us do, sadly.



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineDL WIDGET HEAD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2086 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13142 times:

T3 is not a national monument worth preserving just an interesting building from the past that a lot of people have mixed emotions about and certainly not worth the expense to try to preserve for nostalgia sake. Tear it down like the Berlin wall and let's move on.

[Edited 2013-05-23 08:35:43]

User currently offlinenotam-j From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12974 times:

Does anyone know what the last scheduled flight will be to/from terminal 3?


If only I had a nickel for every Boeing vs Airbus posting...
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4880 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12924 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I had my last departure out of T3 this past Sunday and went around to snap a few pics. I remember coming to T3 in the late '80s during the summer and going to the rooftop to watch the Pan Am 747s come in from LHR, FRA, CDG, FCO, etc., and have taken many Pan Am and Delta flights out of the place since then. While I am sad to see the place go (for obvious nostalgic reasons), I also understand that Delta desparately needs a new terminal...the place is embarassing for the thousands of Delta customers who go through DL JFK every day...

Rotunda Check-in area: Sky Priority lines
JFK T3 Rotunda SP Check-in


Rotunda Check-in area: General
JFK T3 Rotunda Check-in


Rotunda Inside: view from side
JFK T3 Rotunda inside Side view


Rotunda Inside: Gates 1, 2, and 3. One of these gates (the current Gate 3 I believe) was the one from which the very first scheduled 747 flight from JFK to LHR departed:
JFK T3 Rotunda Gates 1 2 3


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9297 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12916 times:

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 5):

I do not know what makes some of you so sure that T3's rotunda would not be preserved.

The fact that Delta and PANYNJ has said its going bye-bye

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 5):
Why would DL and PANYNJ hurt their images making a hugely controversial demolition?

Its not controversial outside of a very small minority

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 9):
You have to realize that not everyone has the warm fuzzies for airline history the way some of us do, sadly.

No, we just don't believe in wasting outside.



yep.
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3392 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12782 times:

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 6):
Yeah. It's not hugely controversial. Pretty much no one cares.

I'm not saying preserve it....but if the threads, fb pages, and articles are to be belived...someone cares. So that would make you statement false.


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1048 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12773 times:

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 6):
Yeah. It's not hugely controversial. Pretty much no one cares.

That no one cares is not a good thing.

From the Architect's Newspaper: As for the threatened Terminal 6 by I.M. Pei, Hayes* said Terminal 3 is “superior to Pei, especially in terms of aviation architecture. Pei’s is a pretty corporate box, but it could be anywhere.” Terminal 3, however, had an unparalleled design that allowed for passenger loading and maintenance to take place all under its unique canopy. “This is really the place that established the paradigm for airport architecture, and these terminals were treated like international headquarters, intended to be corporate icons,” Hayes said of JFK.

* Hal Hayes was one of the lead architects on the T4 terminal. As the blog post also indicates, he created an earlier scheme for Delta that repurposed T3.

--- http://blog.archpaper.com/wordpress/archives/8487#more-8487


User currently offlinepsa188 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 507 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12651 times:

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 6):
Yeah. It's not hugely controversial. Pretty much no one cares.

NOT true!

TV, radio and media personality Michael Manning wrote two very powerful and optimistic blog entry on his blog site. Thank you, for your support and advice, Michael!

http://michaelmanningtv.blogspot.com...13/05/saving-pan-am-worldport.html

http://michaelmanningtv.blogspot.com...ldports-final-week-crisis-and.html

Travel and airline blog site Flying with Fish also posted two very interesting commentaries about Delta's final days operating Terminal 3.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flying...tion-closes-it-wont-be-documented/

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flying...orldports-last-day-%E2%80%A6-fear/

And the New York/Tri-state chapter of the international preservation advocacy organization, Docomomo-US wrote a very detailed news piece on our campaign. The author, John Morris Dixon, wrote one of the very first architectural opinons about the original Pan Am Terminal back in 1961! Thank you, John!

http://docomomo-nytri.org/2013/05/19/can-jfks-terminal-3-be-saved/

YOU might not care, but don't say "no one" cares.


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8061 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12488 times:

The last flight will be Delta Flight 268, a Boeing 747-451, from gate 6, tonight. Nice that it's gate 6 (not the same as in 1970) and a 747.

Is there anything happening to mark the event? Would it be worth being there in person?



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently onlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7458 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12487 times:

I only went thru T3 once,inbound from MIA on DL March '11 . Are the express gates section getting demolished also?


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4880 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12349 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 17):
The last flight will be Delta Flight 268, a Boeing 747-451, from gate 6, tonight. Nice that it's gate 6 (not the same as in 1970) and a 747.

And I did get a quick snap of T3 Gate 6 with a Delta 744 recently....no such views up close of a 744 at T4 unfortunately:

DL 744 N667US Gate 6 T3 JFK


Quoting United_fan (Reply 18):
Are the express gates section getting demolished also?

The Delta Connection RJ gates are mostly in T2 now, so they will be around a little longer. They will move to a new extension to T4B within the next two years.


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1556 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12192 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 12):
I had my last departure out of T3 this past Sunday and went around to snap a few pics.

Thanks so much for the photographs - they will be nice to look back on one day. You can't say Delta didn't get its use out of that building!!

One question: the mezzanine or second floor area and the shops under the saucer, were those original to the design or added later?

Quoting psa188 (Reply 16):
YOU might not care, but don't say "no one" cares.

It would have been nice had the authorities been able to save the building -- Pan Am had a storied history and its sad to see it go.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4880 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12045 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 20):
One question: the mezzanine or second floor area and the shops under the saucer, were those original to the design or added later?

The mezzanine level was from the original (or at least it was already there in the early '70s) as seen in this clip (excerpt from the James Bond 1973 movie "Live and Let Die" - go to 0:39 of the clip).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ieff3w5P0Ko


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1583 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10846 times:

I was more upset with the demolition of the three chapels that stood in the center of JFK than of T3. There was a catholic, protestant and Jewish synagogue with beautiful architecture.

My first landing at JFK was right after the I. M. Pei T5 terminal opened in 1970. I flew on National Airlines from DCA--it was a beautiful modern building then.

But JFK's Achilles heel is a lack of growth space. For years there had been talk of extending the airport across the marsh to the old Floyd Bennett Field but IIRC that was quashed because it is a bird sanctuary.

I was based in T2 with Northwest Orient through the 80's--that place was a total dump!

Time marches on. Pan Am is now a part of airline history. It will be interesting to see in 20 years what JFK will look like.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1178 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10036 times:

Here are a few pictures from the acquisition of PanAm in '91
In with the New Term 3 Oct 1991
JFK Terminal 3 Oct 1991
Out with the old, In with the new JFK Term 2 Oct 1991


User currently offlineCairnterriAIR From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 9215 times:

Let the wrecking ball swing. And when they're done they can drive 115 miles up into Connecticut and take out the now vacant eye-sore at BDL that forever was Terminal A. An even worse god-awful dump!

25 just7four7 : Absolutely silly to abandon the saucer. One of the few main images of JFK. Now it will be the same generic 'adult contemporary' McTerminal. How sad. W
26 aviateur : Does anybody know the answer to this... When the Beatles landed at JFK in '64, is it true that the press conference during which John Lennon made the
27 DeltaMD90 : Do you understand what tearing down this terminal will allow? It isn't just because it's old and decrepit. T-3's shape makes it impossible for aircra
28 OzarkD9S : Not even the same year. Had JL made this quote to the press on their first trip to the States well, it might have been their last. The Jesus quote wa
29 alfa164 : As a traveller who has flown more than 200,000 miles per year for the past ten years (I have business in Asia) - and, until now, having flown a vast
30 KGRB : Sorry to say, but that's just sour grapes from some no-name blogger. I'm sure Delta's PR employees have better things to do than to babysit him all d
31 alfa164 : That's a great tactic: if you can't deny what a person says, just call him names. Delta must be very proud of you!
32 KGRB : This may be a news flash to you, but for this blogger to see and "document" the operation in the restricted areas of the terminal, he would need to b
33 alfa164 : Did he say he was trying to go into the restricted areas? No... Did he request an "escort" anywere. No... Did you read what he actually wrote? Probab
34 SR117 : It's quite understandable why neither DL nor the Port Authority wanted to make any fuss regarding the closure of T3 as they did not want to stir up -a
35 m11stephen : I love Pan Am more than the vast majority of people but the fact is that Pan Am has been gone for close to 22 years now. Saving the Worldport, a decre
36 rwy04lga : I believe that's terminal 6. T5 is B6's current terminal (was TWA's old terminal), and T7 is BA's terminal. The National terminal was between termina
37 jfklganyc : The 747s pulled right up to the window. Just like the movie Airplane! I have never seen a 747 nose that close anywhere else. Those gates were designe
38 Post contains images AwysBSB : Please, share more information about such an impossibility. Would it exist if aircraft were RJs? At what gates of T3's ramps is such a traffic flow o
39 EricR : UA at LAX has/had some gates at the end of T6 & T7 that offered this type of view. Also, the new section of TBIT offers similar views. But outsid
40 HNL : Honolulu offers similar views. Plus one can go up on level and peer down onto the aircraft.
41 LDVAviation : In some interview the other day (I think it was with CBS), Richard Anderson claimed that he wanted Delta to become an iconic brand. Pan Am was an ico
42 EricR : I can think of many iconic brands and none of those brands are iconic brands due to the buildings they occupy. Perhaps Worldport was the face of PA b
43 KGRB : Yes, I read what he wrote. He was very vague in describing what kind of access he was looking to obtain. However, as I said, if he were taking photog
44 Post contains images sankaps : Photo I took of JFK T3 on March 4 this year, departing on an AA 737-800 bound for Seattle. Lots of nostalgic memories of this place, through my colleg
45 LDVAviation : While that may be true, this is the airline business where it is hard to stand out. So a building still helps the cause of brand building. See BA and
46 alfa164 : Really... a "public facility"? How do I explain to the TSA that it is a public facility and I should be allowed to enter it? No one asked Delta perso
47 PSU.DTW.SCE : DL doesn't have the resources to respond to every internet bloggers request, particularly when they are likely to write a slanderous piece and/or have
48 STT757 : My Mom used to bring me to the T3 roof top parking lot to watch the Pan Am 747s European departures. I , like many other have already expressed, have
49 cloudboy : Perhaps this is why most people don't like flying any more, find it a pain, and no longer get dressed up for it or are in good moods when they want to
50 Polot : People prefer that over crowded and outdated terminals that generally confuse and stress them out ("Are they calling my flight, or another one...?").
51 Post contains images sankaps : A Then and Now photo of the WorldPort interior. Sigh.
52 jfk777 : SAD to see Therminal 3 close and end a chapter of historic aviation. Sadly Pan AM is gone 22 years and surprising that the Worldport lasted this long,
53 Revelation : Personally I'm glad they saved T-5. I was in it during the 60s and 70s, and have seen the pictures of the parts they have restored, and nothing can g
54 jfklganyc : I have never seen this on any official JFK Master Plan. It is only speculated on a.net. They could have done something with this rotunda. The roof le
55 cokepopper : This is your HOPE. You Hope something gets built. Reality is NOTHING has been announced except that Hardstand parking for Delta on the site of T-3 an
56 STT757 : All we know is that DL will move everything to T4 by 2015, what will happen to T-2 is not known. I think we can eliminate the possibility of a new te
57 luckyone : Apparently it also doesn't mean much in the long run to be "iconinc" beyond the fact that people call it "iconic." Where are the icons? Gone.
58 jfklganyc : I know you appreciate this STT because you lived around here for a while. The PA wanted to consolidate into one terminal for JFK 25 years ago. JFK 20
59 STT757 : Yeah they wanted to model the airport somewhat after MCO or TPA, they even began work on the under ground tunnel for the baggage system. That "tunnel
60 Post contains links Revelation : Not sure I agree. In Delta Announces Phase III Of JFK T4 (by Atlflyer May 25 2013 in Civil Aviation) we read: So surely the interest is there, yet no
61 Deltal1011man : ah yes. Damn people for being financially responsible What we need is more people and companies that act like they US government, that can't fail. (j
62 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : I'm guessing it was in the International Arrivals Building (or whatever it was called then) based on the generic airport logos apart from the few Pan
63 LDVAviation : If by "most," you mean United at Chicago. Then No. AA at Miami. No. Not even AA at JFK, with the dramatic proportions to its concourses and ticketing
64 Post contains images Deltal1011man : in your opinion in your opinion Of course Delta won't ever be able to do anything better than American. in your opinion. I'm not making excuses at al
65 alfa164 : I have just returned through T4 (and then departed), and I must say LDV has a much more accurate picture than 1011 (and, by the way, I loved the L101
66 Post contains images United1 : Well they are going to do something with it even if its just tearing it down to make hardstands... The cost of remediating the site (and I assure you
67 alfa164 : One would think that, in order to become an "iconic" airline with employees and investors, one might first concentrate on becoming "iconic" with pass
68 sankaps : Old NW management brought us the Detroit McNamara terminal, one of the nicest and most "wow-inducing" terminals in the US today.
69 alfa164 : I have to agree; DTW is my favorite domestic hub. I didn't know whether the City of Detroit or NW was the catalyst behind it, but whoever it was, the
70 sankaps : NWA drove the design and layout of the DTW terminal. One difference from T4 is that one was a new terminal from the ground up, and the other is an ex
71 AwysBSB : You are considering mostly the non saucer area, which is to be demolished and substituted by ramp. Such a disturbance in aircraft traffic caused only
72 FlyASAGuy2005 : Let's get over it people. T3 is done and dead!!! BTW, Delta did have an official send-off of T3 although it was a private event for employees. Food, g
73 DeltaMD90 : Besides a.netters, I don't think many would want to fly through a terminal that awed them. I think people care more about it being functional and not
74 brilondon : Pan Am was an iconic brand long before the terminal was built. It was prestigious to fly on PA back in the days of the clipper aircraft of the 30's a
75 alfa164 : While SQ might argue with that statement (or, perhaps more correctly, that might have had a good argument 5-10 years ago), I believe it is correct -
76 Post contains links brilondon : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5w62...UovM&list=FLnctbsNr_JOsF1CIGyEgecA This is the way Pan Am use to be. This was the way people who were anybo
77 luckyone : You're also talking about a time when hardly anybody flew, much less could afford to fly. Therefore, the rich rich and famous are willing to pay for,
78 LDVAviation : It wasn't always like that... The United terminal at ORD is testament to a time when United wanted very much to build an iconic brand in the spirit o
79 Deltal1011man : So you are telling me that you would pay more to fly Delta had they built some amazing terminal? and you are willing to pay a high premium to fly AA
80 alfa164 : As a DL employee, I might suspect you have a jaundiced view. I will admit I have been a Delta fanatic; I flew more than 200,000 miles with them last
81 cloudboy : Haven't you just disproven your point then? People, contrary to the bean counter's opinion, are not cargo containers. Why is it such a huge jump for
82 DTWPurserBoy : [quote=sankaps,reply=70]NWA drove the design and layout of the DTW terminal. One difference from T4 is that one was a new terminal from the ground up,
83 luckyone : I'm not sure how. NOt saying that you are wrong but I just don't see how you could extrapolate that I disproved myself from what I stated. I said tha
84 richierich : I don't think you'll find too many people at B6 that regret opening the new T5 at JFK in 2008. I like B6 - and always have - but nobody who was aroun
85 DeltaMD90 : More like no one wants to pay extra money for prestigious airlines like PanAm Consumers (at least in the US) are demanding 2 things: rock bottom pric
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