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SQ At Newark.  
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7132 posts, RR: 87
Posted (11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12222 times:

Have read on this site SQ will discontinue their SIN-EWR-SIN flight. It's on an Airbus A345 in all business class. This flight goes out full pretty regularly. Curious why SQ is dumping this route. Seems prestigious to the company as the longest revenue flight in the world at present. Thoughts appreciated.

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24333 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12075 times:

The A345 fleet is going bye-bye.

Due to the ULH nature of the flight, I doubt even full loads produce profits.

SQ has struggled with these flights having changed configurations more than once on the aircraft, and even announcing they would put economy back on planes the last year, before changing course and pulling the plug completely now.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecipango From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 483 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12024 times:

The main problem is the deadweight on this flight. They need to carry all the fuel at once during departure and the aircraft is fuel heavy until around 50-/75% of the flight when the benefits of a reduced load can then be felt.

I remember reading that SQ would lose less money by operating these flights than they would by grounding them, mainly due to the fact that no one wants to buy an A345.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
SQ has struggled with these flights having changed configurations more than once on the aircraft, and even announcing they would put economy back on planes the last year, before changing course and pulling the plug completely now.

This is the one route I really wanted to try out. Unfortunately I never found the reason nor the money to travel from SIN-EWR.



Next Flights: DUB-BHX-DUB, DUB-BHX-DUB, DUB-LIS-DUB.
User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 507 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12019 times:

This was discussed in the following thread awhile back:
SQ Publishes A345 SIN-LAX/EWR Nonstop End Dates (by LAXintl Dec 20 2012 in Civil Aviation)

The A345s are going to be decommissioned in line with SQ's policy to decom their planes when they're 8 (or was it 9?) years.
Airbus is stopping the A345 program
There is no other model that can do this route profitably from what I hear.

Despite the yields being good, some have questioned the profitability of these flights in light of present-day fuel costs.


User currently offlineqf340500 From Singapore, joined Oct 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11995 times:

what a sad day! One of the best looking planes ever!

Any idea if SQ plans to do a "last flight" ceremony or lucky draw or a farewell flight to HKG as they did with the 747 or a few short runs to CGK? Would love to make a trip on this machine before it disappeares...  


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2793 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11301 times:
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Can a 787 in all business class do the trip? It would be ONE thing United could do that would add some sizzle to it's image...and given United's big EWR hub and it's virtual ownership of APac market. But for over 20 hours I'd hope they would use the GlobalFirst seat. Their Bf seat wouldnt be premium enough to command the fare needed.

I guess I am just curious if a smaller thinner approach on a 787 would make it more feasable? Or perhaps 2 holes can't do it.

After SQ stops it, what will be the best way to SIN from NYC area? Via FRA?



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinefalkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11173 times:

Quoting infinit (Reply 3):
SQ's policy to decom their planes when they're 8 (or was it 9?) years.

So the A380 have 3 years left??? Weird...

Quoting VC10er (Reply 5):
After SQ stops it, what will be the best way to SIN from NYC area? Via FRA?

It would be the only way to fly SQ all the way. Other options would be NYC-HKG-SIN or NYC-LAX/SFO-NRT/HKG-SIN. Obviously not as practical and comfortable as a direct, non stop.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11019 times:

Quoting falkerker (Reply 6):
So the A380 have 3 years left??? Weird...

Hard to believe right, but that's been pretty standard. I think back when the 744's made up the majority of the fleet the average age was 5 years old. There's a reason why they've been ordering additional A380's.


User currently onlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10931 times:

But some of their 777s are quite "old" (777-200/200ER/300)


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10111 times:

For getting pax from SIN-EWR, flying them directly by A340-500 is an extremely inefficient way of doing so.

As people have stated earlier, ULH haul flights are flying fuel tanks for the first half of the flight.

SQ will not lose many passengers by cancelling these ULH flights. LAX passengers will be routed via NRT and EWR passengers via FRA.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
Hard to believe right, but that's been pretty standard. I think back when the 744's made up the majority of the fleet the average age was 5 years old. There's a reason why they've been ordering additional A380's.

The 747s left the fleet because a new VLA with far better economics came out. The A380s will not be going anywhere soon as there is nothing better to replace them with.

Of course operating young fleets saves money on fuel and m/x, but capital costs often outweigh these savings.


User currently offlinethegivenone From Austria, joined Jan 2008, 189 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9494 times:

Yup, very sad to see this route go. But I am glad to have secured a seat on SQ 22 SIN-EWR at the end of June to experience one of the last of these record-breaking flights. I'll be doing JFK-FRA-SIN on the outbound.

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 9):
As people have stated earlier, ULH haul flights are flying fuel tanks for the first half of the flight.

This is an interesting concept which I hadn't really thought of before. Does anyone know what the average yields on this flight are? Tickets go for around $8000-9000 roundtrip, which might not be bad at an ~85% load factor.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 5):

Can a 787 in all business class do the trip?

Interesting proposal – an extension of the Premium Service into long-haul routes. United certainly needs to do something to sizzle up its image. Yesterday's new uniforms didn't quite do it  


User currently offlineEWRkid1990 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8813 times:

So does this mean that SQ is leaving EWR for good? or are the going to be operating EWR-FRA-SIN flights? If they do begin to operate the flights via FRA, which aircraft would be used? 777-300?

User currently offlineBthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8742 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 8):
But some of their 777s are quite "old" (777-200/200ER/300)

Oldest is 15 at present

Quoting infinit (Reply 3):
The A345s are going to be decommissioned in line with SQ's policy to decom their planes when they're 8 (or was it 9?) years.

Looking back at 747s (-400 at least) the retiring age is between 10-14 years. Could the policy be to keep and average fleet age of 8/9 years?


User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7770 times:

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 12):
Looking back at 747s (-400 at least) the retiring age is between 10-14 years. Could the policy be to keep and average fleet age of 8/9 years?

The A340-500s are an exception. When they were brought fuel prices were a fraction of what they are today. The increase in fuel price has widened the gap between the 777 and the A340 economics to the point where the A340-500 now serves zero purpose.

I would have loved to have flown on one of SQ's ULH flights, and the A340-500 is one of the best looking planes out there!


User currently onlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3080 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7696 times:

Quoting falkerker (Reply 6):
So the A380 have 3 years left??? Weird...

They just don't do D Checks on anything, the late A380 meant some of the B744s got one though. The B777-200ER fleet is not in the first flush of youth and not all are being replaced by A333s.


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7944 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7669 times:

I am sure it's not why SQ are pulling the plug but I always wondered, why EWR and not JFK. And I guess when the A340-500 goes, EWR will go with it. Hoping to take a ride in September.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 5):
Can a 787 in all business class do the trip? It would be ONE thing United could do that would add some sizzle to it's image...and given United's big EWR hub and it's virtual ownership of APac market.

It makes sense for SQ cos at the end of the flight is...NEW YORK CITY! While I like Singapore* I don't know if it's worth United configuring a subfleet to operate ULH. I would say, if they are looking to do something along these lines (they're not, and they won't), New York to Sydney makes more sense, it's 400 mi further but in the same ballpark. But Singapore? Meh, there isn't enough there there!

* it's fashionable to say it's bland etc but I think it has a lot going for it, nothing glamourous about the ghetto!



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9381 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

I did this route back in 2005. I flew ORD-EWR-SIN. It came out as an option that was cheaper than UA ORD-HKG-SIN, so my travel agent was able to book it at $5000.

The EWR-SIN flight wasn't bad in business class leaving at 11pm and arriving at 5am. You eat a late dinner, watch a movie, get 10-11 hours of sleep in time to enjoy a nice breakfast and movie and you are in SIN with little jetlag ready to start your day.

The SIN-EWR flight is a different story. The flight leaving at 11am makes jetlag rather bad. You are up for the first half of the flight, and then you go to sleep. You wake up at what feels like 5am Singapore time, but it is 5pm in Newark, so you get a sleepless flight.

The service was always good. I was impressed they could keep up the attitude and service on such a flight.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7176 times:

Quoting infinit (Reply 3):
The A345s are going to be decommissioned in line with SQ's policy to decom their planes when they're 8 (or was it 9?) years.

Is that from an accounting perspective (i.e. depreciation) or fleet retirement perspective? A quick look at average fleet age says it is 6.9 years and some 37 planes are 9+ years old.

Surely, they have a relatively young fleet by most standards.


User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2492 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6920 times:
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Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 9):
EWR passengers via FRA.

I wonder if this means the a380 will be permanently brought back to the SIN-FRA-JFK route, instead of the current seasonal 77W/a380 mix?



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7944 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

Quoting infinit (Reply 3):
The A345s are going to be decommissioned in line with SQ's policy to decom their planes when they're 8 (or was it 9?) years

The age of the hardware isn't relevant. No aircraft can make money on sectors like these. Fuel prices are too high. The aircraft have very low cycles and are well taken care of. Sure SQ like a young fleet but these planes have life in them even by those standards. It's the economic model that doesn't work.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5018 times:
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Quoting cipango (Reply 2):
I remember reading that SQ would lose less money by operating these flights than they would by grounding them, mainly due to the fact that no one wants to buy an A345.

Singapore Airlines is not known for operating loss-making routes out of prestige and grounding a plane isn't that expensive. My guess is the flights are profitable still, but the profits so thin that it wouldn't justify the expense of a major overhaul (think D check) and Singapore Airlines was able to use them to get a discount on their Airbus order instead.

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 9):
SQ will not lose many passengers by cancelling these ULH flights.

They will probably lose a significant section of the connecting traffic, of which I know there is always a decent number for having flown SIN-EWR/LAX in both directions several times and talked to other passengers or seen them re-check bags after customs.

Take me, for example. Flying non-stop between SIN and LAX/EWR let me do my journey with a single connection. Once these flights are over, I have a number of other one-stop options left to/from Singapore, none of which involving a plane liveried Singapore Airlines. I prefer SIA over others, but not enough to add another stop.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineAngMoh From Singapore, joined Nov 2011, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4325 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 8):
But some of their 777s are quite "old" (777-200/200ER/300)

Quite a number of 772s and some 773s have been replaced by A333s. The remaining regional 777s seem to fly on either high volume routes (CGK, HKG, DEL, BOM) or where 1st class is still required.

Most of the 77Es are gone, but they just started refurbishing of the remaining ones as these fly on routes with less J demand where a 77W in SQ config is overkill and the A333 can not do the job (e.g. AMS, CPH, MXP and a few others). I expect these to be among the first routes for the A359 after initial introduction on some high profile routes. I think the 77E is the only one suitable for these routes today.

By the end of this year, all remaining 772/773/77Es should have been refurbished. They were getting quite run down before they were refurbished.


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2868 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (11 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4063 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 15):
and not JFK. And I guess when the A340-500 goes, EWR will go with it. Hoping to take a ride in September.

All the best for that mate, i was fortunate enough and got myself to ride from SIN-EWR this month, burnt a lot of miles doing so

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 18):
I wonder if this means the a380 will be permanently brought back to the SIN-FRA-JFK route, instead of the current seasonal 77W/a380 mix?

Yes, thats what SQ said they intend to do

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 21):
By the end of this year, all remaining 772/773/77Es should have been refurbished. They were getting quite run down before they were refurbished.

AFAIK, there are two refurbished 77E, one which gets the 77W interior in J and F, which as you said will do AMS CPH and the morning SIN-BOM flight, and the other refurbishment is just the J cabin which gets the same J as the 333s, this is the aircraft i got from BOM-SIN SQ 425, the Y cabin was untouched J was same as the 333

Karan


User currently offlinecipango From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 483 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3957 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 20):
Singapore Airlines is not known for operating loss-making routes out of prestige and grounding a plane isn't that expensive. My guess is the flights are profitable still, but the profits so thin that it wouldn't justify the expense of a major overhaul (think D check) and Singapore Airlines was able to use them to get a discount on their Airbus order instead.

Its nothing to do with what SQ normally does, it's called business! I have heard numerous times that the routes are loss making.



Next Flights: DUB-BHX-DUB, DUB-BHX-DUB, DUB-LIS-DUB.
User currently offlineAngMoh From Singapore, joined Nov 2011, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3890 times:

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 22):
AFAIK, there are two refurbished 77E, one which gets the 77W interior in J and F, which as you said will do AMS CPH and the morning SIN-BOM flight, and the other refurbishment is just the J cabin which gets the same J as the 333s, this is the aircraft i got from BOM-SIN SQ 425, the Y cabin was untouched J was same as the 333

All 772/77Es for SQ are in fact 77Es, where the 772 are 77Es which are de-rated. The long distance 77E is 2 class only and is getting the same J and Y as the 77W and no F. The regional 772/77E are designated 77A and get the same J and Y as the A333.


25 Post contains links and images airbazar : Thanks to A350 and 787 delays. A lot have been replaced by A333's or newer 77W's. But you're right the 772's are some of the oldest frames in the fle
26 Karan69 : I know that very well, have flown SQ a lot and it is my fav airline, My point of contention is that my aircraft on SQ 425 was a 772 with the regional
27 SIA747Megatop : Sad to see these flights go as I was the youngest unaccompanied minor on the inaugural SQ22 flight back in 2004 at age 9. The A380 is permanent on SQ2
28 N62NA : Apparently the answer is yes. I really (really) don't understand why SQ (a Star Alliance carrier) chooses to abandon service at a Star Alliance hub t
29 Polot : Since they are on completely different sides of the world, the fact that EWR offers more Star Alliance connections is rather meaningless as most of t
30 N62NA : But what proof do you have of that? Not trying to be argumentative, just curious. I would think that at least a somewhat significant amount of the pa
31 LAXintl : Besides the JFK vs EWR debate, going to a "Star hub" is not much value for some companies like SQ. SQ does zero with UA. Domestically it codeshares wi
32 blueflyer : Singapore may not code-share with United, but that doesn't mean they do "zero." Every connection I've had at EWR to/from SIA, they were very happy to
33 AngMoh : Just some question which popped up in my mind: what are the number of cycles and what are the number of flying hours for the SQ A345s? They must be th
34 nickofatlanta : Any further news on whether SQ is likely to keep the EWR station open and launch a route via a third country? I know in the past, the EWR was routed i
35 VC10er : "Interesting proposal – an extension of the Premium Service into long-haul routes. United certainly needs to do something to sizzle up its image." M
36 dennys : what a sad day! One of the best looking planes ever! Any idea if SQ plans to do a "last flight" ceremony or lucky draw or a farewell flight to HKG as
37 avek00 : Short answer -- prestige doesn't pay the big fuel bills.
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