Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics  
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 843 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17410 times:

It's the first day!

Post experiences and pics here!

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineDexSwart From Australia, joined Aug 2012, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 17283 times:

DL sure seems to be quite proud of their renovations, and rightly so, it looks spectacular.
I'm interested in the food outlets.
Apparently, they're not the usual McDonald's or Burger King fare.



Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3007 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16685 times:

I landed at JFK around 5:30 this morning and taxied right past T4. After watching the construction over the past months/years, it was exciting to see DL aircraft (mostly 738s and 757s, with one 744 presumably for the NRT flight, from what I could see) parked at all the new gates. Unfortunately I did not take a picture, but it looked like they were all set to get up and running this morning. T3, meanwhile, was looking completely deserted and a bit forlorn. I hope things go smoothly at T4 despite the weather and holiday crowds. Can't wait to hear initial impressions, and to try it myself!


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16135 times:

Wow. Was all the hype in these threads coming from armchair passengers?  

Other than above, has anyone else flown through the new T4B?


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4956 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15651 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Here's a video taken earlier this morning: (not from me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wis7nVMe3GM

I won't depart from T4 till Sunday but should probably have some pics then, if someone else hasn't posted some by then.


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1101 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14225 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 3):
Wow. Was all the hype in these threads coming from armchair passengers?

Some of it was coming from Delta. Delta keeps calling it a "new terminal." But the terminal was already there; they more or less added 9 gates to an existing pier.

Look at the existing pictures of T4B and just imagine the concourse with new floors and wall treatments. That's pretty much it.

As to the new Delta ticketing lobby, it is basically the old lobby with a section for SkyPriority. The budget apparently did not provide for redoing the floors.


User currently offlinedeltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8912 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14142 times:

Swung by the SkyClub this afternoon. Very large and the Sky Deck was nice (got out there before the rain came). There's dining available (for a fee) and said food did look rather good.

User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14023 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
Look at the existing pictures of T4B and just imagine the concourse with new floors and wall treatments. That's pretty much it.

Clearly you haven't watched the video, i'd say its more than "new floors and wall treatments". But if you choose to look at it as half-empty then have at it.


User currently offlinebkircher From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13665 times:

Can someone post some images of where terminal 4b is located? And where the old terminal is that this one replaced?

User currently offlineattyavgeek From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13507 times:

Here's a article from Skift.com that has some pictures: http://skift.com/2013/05/24/deltas-1...g-fight-for-business-travelers/#/0

Enjoy!


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1189 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13038 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
Look at the existing pictures of T4B and just imagine the concourse with new floors and wall treatments. That's pretty much it.

Yes, thats all there is lol....I'm sure you can see very clearly from that armchair. The New Concourse and Terminal updates are beautiful. Yes I've seen it.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 12900 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 4):

I was there in March and looks pretty amazing. Great to see T4B complete.

Is the outdoor area under cover? Looks as though there ain't any roof.

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4389 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11301 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):

Quoting questions (Reply 3):
Wow. Was all the hype in these threads coming from armchair passengers?

Some of it was coming from Delta. Delta keeps calling it a "new terminal." But the terminal was already there; they more or less added 9 gates to an existing pier.

Look at the existing pictures of T4B and just imagine the concourse with new floors and wall treatments. That's pretty much it.

As to the new Delta ticketing lobby, it is basically the old lobby with a section for SkyPriority. The budget apparently did not provide for redoing the floors.


OK so you have a grudge against Delta. I bet if you were to fly from there that you might...you would find something to complain about. Like the blue is too blue or the red Delta widget is not widgety enough. Typical A-Net negative attitude towards anything new.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3651 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10983 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 7):
Clearly you haven't watched the video, i'd say its more than "new floors and wall treatments".

Well, I watched the video. It looks nice, but you have to admit, it's not really what you'd call a dramatic public space. It's a nicely furnished terminal with some decent food options (though I cringed a little when I saw Shake Shack - hasn't that place's trendiness shelf life expired by now?), but that's all I can see from that video. If you consider that an insult, then I'm not sure what you're expecting us to say.

It is better than what was there before, definitely.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 10786 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
. Delta keeps calling it a "new terminal." But the terminal was already there; they more or less added 9 gates to an existing pier.

I want to jump on this point too, every time there is some piece of news that media is covering that has to do with aviation the aviation communities jump all over them for their "inaccurate reporting etc.." if they get the slightest bit of information incorrect. Yet this news is given a pass, all day long on CNBC and every article I've read they are touting the new DL Terminal. Yes the 10 year old terminal is being touted as a "New Terminal", when in reality they added a few thousand more feet to an existing concourse and realigned the ticketing, screening areas. It's a huge improvement, and a milestone for DL at JFK, but it's not a new Terminal. T-5 was the last new Terminal built. T-4, where DL is relocating their T-3 operations, opened 10 years ago.

This though is just another sign of just how savvy the DL pr folks are, they add a few thousand square feet and call it a new terminal and everyone picks up on it and runs with it. I guess inviting the media to come out and report on their concourse expansion is not as sexy as the term "new Terminal".



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 8815 times:

Some additional pictures and info from USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...rt-international-terminal/2359045/


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 8765 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):


Some additional pictures and info from USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...rt-international-terminal/2359045/

The headline from the article:

Quote:
Delta unveils new international terminal at JFK

Again, where is this new terminal? They expanded a concourse by 9 gates, and reconfigured the check in and security screening areas.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 8670 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):

Again, where is this new terminal? They expanded a concourse by 9 gates, and reconfigured the check in and security screening areas.

I think it is a matter of how one interprets the language. I think the intent is to emphasize "Delta's" new international terminal and not that Delta moved into a newly built terminal.


User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 8644 times:

Beautiful new terminal space for DL to welcome the world! Yet another element of the total reinvention and rebuilding of Delta.

T4B is merely a taste of what DL has in store for JFK. Even more exciting things are on the way to come. Stay tuned......  


User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 8605 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
Yes the 10 year old terminal is being touted as a "New Terminal", when in reality they added a few thousand more feet to an existing concourse and realigned the ticketing, screening areas.

Try 346,000 square feet to be exact. More than "a few" I'd say.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 8580 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
Delta keeps calling it a "new terminal." But the terminal was already there; they more or less added 9 gates to an existing pier.

The check in hall, outdoor deck, and sky club look great, but I think people are going to see the actual gate area and wonder what the hype was about. Nonetheless, a 2x4 to the head would have been preferable to the prior setup so it's a big plus for DL even if it's not mind blowing.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1928 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 8556 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
Some of it was coming from Delta. Delta keeps calling it a "new terminal." But the terminal was already there; they more or less added 9 gates to an existing pier.

Wether the building was there now or not it is still DELTA'S NEW TERMINAL



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1189 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 8550 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 17):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):

Again, where is this new terminal? They expanded a concourse by 9 gates, and reconfigured the check in and security screening areas.

I think it is a matter of how one interprets the language. I think the intent is to emphasize "Delta's" new international terminal and not that Delta moved into a newly built terminal.

Exactly, Delta's New international Terminal 4
Works wonderfully for Delta that the media decides to call it the New Terminal 4

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
This though is just another sign of just how savvy the DL pr folks are

Yes, they are Savvy to say the least. They know how to control the narrative and some may even
say brilliant   NYC largest carrier is sticking  


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3599 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 8463 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 22):
NYC largest carrier is sticking

Techincally, they are the only ones that can say that.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 8444 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 23):
Techincally, they are the only ones that can say that.

Technically, no one cares, nor does it matter really. Regardless UA's NYC hub is still 30% larger in ASMs than DL at LGA/JFK combined in JUL13 



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineNYC-air From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 8721 times:

Can anyone tell me what the signs say on the airtrain and on the roadways to JFK? Are all passengers directed to T4? Are some being sent to T2 to check-in?

I'm wondering how many O&D pax will end up on those buses.


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1101 posts, RR: 5
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 8692 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 12):
OK so you have a grudge against Delta. I bet if you were to fly from there that you might...you would find something to complain about. Like the blue is too blue or the red Delta widget is not widgety enough. Typical A-Net negative attitude towards anything new.

But there is nothing new here. Delta added 9 gates by extending a pier.

They did not completely change the geometry of the pier or its design. The existing section remains a corporate box with the low ceilings and the constrained passageway. By the looks of it, the new section is slightly wider to allow for a second moving walkway, but it is not clear whether it is taller than one storey, though the skylights in the ceiling do give it a more spacious feel for a corporate box.

Honestly, the way some of you are talking about the space you would think Delta had turned T4B into Barajas T4. (Now that is a stunning terminal. Everyone should take a look at that.) Also, still wondering how this cost $1.4 Billion. For $500 million more, Delta could have had the new TBIT at LAX. Go figure.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
This though is just another sign of just how savvy the DL pr folks are, they add a few thousand square feet and call it a new terminal and everyone picks up on it and runs with it. I guess inviting the media to come out and report on their concourse expansion is not as sexy as the term "new Terminal".

In the CNBC report I saw yesterday, the British desk reporter wasn't buying the PR about the "new terminal." He suggested there was no comparison between T4 and BA's T5. (He's right.) Branson who was sitting next to Anderson had nothing to say in defense of T4. Perhaps, there are limits to what Branson can hype. LOL.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10601 posts, RR: 14
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 8919 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 23):
Techincally, they are the only ones that can say that.

Technically, no one cares, nor does it matter really. Regardless UA's NYC hub is still 30% larger in ASMs than DL at LGA/JFK combined in JUL13

I don't suppose that the average (or even above average) traveller, when looking at print ads, is going to see that UA's "ASMs" at their hub are more than DL's.....what they WILL see, in print is what DL is doing in NYC and that's what counts.....the ASMs only count for the beancounters. You would think that someone on A.net would realize that's how things go in the airline world.......perception is reality and it always has been.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1189 posts, RR: 9
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 8779 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 27):
I don't suppose that the average (or even above average) traveller, when looking at print ads, is going to see that UA's "ASMs" at their hub are more than DL's.....what they WILL see, in print is what DL is doing in NYC and that's what counts.....the ASMs only count for the beancounters. You would think that someone on A.net would realize that's how things go in the airline world.......perception is reality and it always has been.

Exactly, and to expand on that, it may not play well in middle America or the West coast, but it
is playing very big here in the New York area.


User currently offlineNYCAdvantage From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 8811 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):

If you had ever used T4B gates before, You will noticed that the new addition makes it feel like a whole new place, it make you feel like in an international terminal not like the late terminal 3.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 26):
In the CNBC report I saw yesterday, the British desk reporter wasn't buying the PR about the "new terminal." He suggested there was no comparison between T4 and BA's T5. (He's right.) Branson who was sitting next to Anderson had nothing to say in defense of T4. Perhaps, there are limits to what Branson can hype. LOL.


to put your credibility on two reporters, one that did not know who used to owned VS 49% before DL bought it, and the other one comparing apples and oranges, I would have respected him more if he had compared it to T8 but LHR come on.
is questionable. http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video...dline%7Cquote%7Cvideo%7C&par=yahoo


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 8776 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 28):
Exactly, and to expand on that, it may not play well in middle America or the West coast, but it
is playing very big here in the New York area.
Quoting mayor (Reply 27):
when looking at print ads, is going to see that UA's "ASMs" at their hub are more than DL's.....what they WILL see, in print is what DL is doing in NYC and that's what counts.

This is a roundabout way of saying DL's NYC expansion is all PR, which it is not. The reality is NYC point of sale wants the best schedule, most seats, most destinations, and right now and for the foreseeable future that is UA. But I'm also somewhat confident UA will aggressively lose that lead anyway.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 8745 times:

When all is said and done DL will end up with less gates at JFK than they had with T3/T2.

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 29):
You will noticed that the new addition makes it feel like a whole new place

That's my point, it's an addition not a "new Terminal".



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinenicholasjet From United Kingdom, joined May 2013, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 8759 times:

Few more images and words from thedesignair.net also here....

http://thedesignair.net/2013/05/25/d...a-open-refurbished-jfk-terminal-4/

I like it, it seems like nothing groundbreaking, but definately user friendly, I am reserving a seat on that skydeck when i travel!


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8526 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 23):

They are the largest carrier in New york. Its not wrong, It just kind of a play on words. EWR is not in New York, but is a NYC airport.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):
When all is said and done DL will end up with less gates at JFK than they had with T3/T2.

er...when they add the RJ area that and the T4A add will make things about the same.

and they triple the hard stand area.



yep.
User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 8289 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting nicholasjet (Reply 32):
Few more images and words from thedesignair.net also here....

http://thedesignair.net/2013/05/25/d...a-open-refurbished-jfk-terminal-4/

I like it, it seems like nothing groundbreaking, but definately user friendly, I am reserving a seat on that skydeck when i travel!

This blog mentions that the phase 2 of the project is to replace the current T2 for a total of 27 gates... that is the first that I have heard that T2 will be redone.


User currently offlinegoldenstate From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 583 posts, RR: 4
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 8277 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 26):
Also, still wondering how this cost $1.4 Billion. For $500 million more, Delta could have had the new TBIT at LAX. Go figure.

The reason you are wondering this is probably because you do not understand the scope of either project, regional differences in construction costs, and financial analysis for investment decisions.


User currently offlineBurj From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 901 posts, RR: 4
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7894 times:

I was there yesterday and will be putting together at trip report later today......

But skimming this thread what I want to point out is that it is all relative.

Relative to the mess that was T3....the expanded T4 is awesome! However it is no Changi, or Incheon, Munich, etc...T4 is not even nearly as nice as Delta's own McNamara terminal at DTW.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2314 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7896 times:

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 35):
This blog mentions that the phase 2 of the project is to replace the current T2 for a total of 27 gates... that is the first that I have heard that T2 will be redone.

I think they are talking about T4B with that comment, not T2. To have 27 gates in T2 you would basically have to triple or quadruple the size of the terminal.


User currently offlineNYCAdvantage From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7892 times:

You know that most of us get your point, it's not a new building, for most of us that have traveled daily, weekly or monthly thru T4 for the past years, but again that new addition makes a huge difference, the feeling is great, any way just the thought of knowing that I will be at a T4 FIS relax me and make me forget the dark days of T3, "broken baggage carousel,
no air condition, crossing the street to T3 from T2 to claim baggage that some how did not make it to T2, or sometimes driving my wife to T3 the traffic jams specially during the summer and how can you forget Delta's man 1011 flying birds. If you have not experienced that, T4 is an old building, But if you have experienced the worse of the worse JFK T3 then T4 will be a brand new building a brand new experience.

[Edited 2013-05-26 10:19:54 by SA7700]

User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 39, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7847 times:

Quoting Burj (Reply 38):
However it is no Changi, or Incheon, Munich, etc...T4 is not even nearly as nice as Delta's own McNamara terminal at DTW

That's the observation that stings the most, NY's #1 air terminal facility doesn't even measure up to Detroit.

No amount of positive spin will ever change that.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 40, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7897 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 41):
That's the observation that stings the most, NY's #1 air terminal facility doesn't even measure up to Detroit.

True. Ironically enough though, B6's T5 @ JFK is the #5 rated terminal in the world.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/s...worst-airport-terminals/52602176/1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1101 posts, RR: 5
Reply 41, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 7763 times:

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 36):
The reason you are wondering this is probably because you do not understand the scope of either project, regional differences in construction costs, and financial analysis for investment decisions.

Oh really? "Financial" analysis for "investment" decisions? As opposed to what? A psychoanalysis of investment decisions? LOL.

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 29):
If you had ever used T4B gates before, You will noticed that the new addition makes it feel like a whole new place, it make you feel like in an international terminal not like the late terminal 3.

I have used T4B gates before. That is why I know that nothing short of widening the existing concourse and lifting the ceilings to two storeys would have made much of a difference.

Even then, it is important to note that T4 was not considered groundbreaking in design or engineering when it was new (10+ years ago). Indeed, the design is probably less noteworthy now because it seems that the renovation has obscured the transparency the building (ticketing lobby) used to have from curb to check-in.

[Edited 2013-05-25 15:49:16]

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 42, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 7261 times:

I wouldn't brag about any of their shareholder value considering they've all been bankrupt with the last 6 years. I own stock in both btw.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 43, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5661 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

This thread was started in order to discuss Delta's T4B at JFK. The thread was not started in order to make unnecessary comparisons between NYC area airports or primarily other airports for that matter. It detracts from the real topic at hand and leads to off-topic posts.

Thanks very much for your understanding and co-operation.

Regards,

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10601 posts, RR: 14
Reply 44, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5279 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 39):
Quoting Burj (Reply 38):
However it is no Changi, or Incheon, Munich, etc...T4 is not even nearly as nice as Delta's own McNamara terminal at DTW

That's the observation that stings the most, NY's #1 air terminal facility doesn't even measure up to Detroit.

No amount of positive spin will ever change that.

Well, it's not like DTW is sitting in the middle of Detroit's inner city.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6103 posts, RR: 9
Reply 45, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5259 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 44):
Well, it's not like DTW is sitting in the middle of Detroit's inner city.

Well to be fair neither is JFK.....it's right on the edge of the city and the start of the LI suburbs.

I think this was a good compromise by DL and the port authority. Neither have billions that they can spend on a new terminal but they can certainly afford to extend out and modernize an underutilized existing terminal and pier. It's not exactly HKG or ICN but I am certain that they put all of the bells and whistles that DL wanted into the terminal. Its certainty lightyears ahead of T3, which was already falling apart when DL took it over in 91, and will be a very functional space for DL to use for years to come.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 800 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5252 times:

I was there for the dedication (and even saw SRB pull off RA's tie and throw it into the crowd!) and while it is a beautiful complex, from a crew perspective, it's a HAUL from the head of the terminal to the crew rooms. I worked a flight out of the C Gates (T2, renumbered) and *apparently* people can't check-in at T2 anymore...and that was causing a lot of heartburn.


My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10601 posts, RR: 14
Reply 47, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5260 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 45):
I think this was a good compromise by DL and the port authority. Neither have billions that they can spend on a new terminal but they can certainly afford to extend out and modernize an underutilized existing terminal and pier. It's not exactly HKG or ICN but I am certain that they put all of the bells and whistles that DL wanted into the terminal. Its certainty lightyears ahead of T3, which was already falling apart when DL took it over in 91, and will be a very functional space for DL to use for years to come.

I'm willing to bet that DL wishes that they had some of the money back, that they've spent on JFK since '91 and could have applied it to this terminal.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6103 posts, RR: 9
Reply 48, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5215 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 47):
I'm willing to bet that DL wishes that they had some of the money back, that they've spent on JFK since '91 and could have applied it to this terminal.

Indeed....I know there are a lot of people out there who blame DL for the destruction of T3 but they really did spend quite a lot of money on upkeep over the years. The building is simply way past its design life and has been for years.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 49, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4614 times:

The purpose of this thread was to share firsthand experiences of the terminal since it opened three days ago to see how the finished product matched up to the renderings and hype leading up to the opening. So far, hardly anyone seems to have any new firsthand experiences to share--only the same recycled crap about how insignificant and inadequate the extensive terminal improvements. The few firsthand reports have been blown off.

From what I understand, nearly everything a Delta customer sees and touches from curbside until they board the aircraft has been streamlined and refreshed. I'd call that a substantial improvement.

In all these discussions, no one has mentioned ATL comparison, which is Delta's biggest hub. Except for the new international terminal and concourse F (at ATL), every single passenger space in that airport is at least 20 years old. Half of T and all of A, B, C, and D date to 1980. But obviously, the passengers areas have been drastically overhauled so everything they see and feel is contemporary and more functional. Yet it's not the subject of anywhere close to the level of ridicule and criticism as JFK and specifically DL's JFK facilities even though it handles millions more passengers each year with minimal fuss.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4956 posts, RR: 25
Reply 50, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4539 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting B727FA (Reply 46):
*apparently* people can't check-in at T2 anymore
T2 remains as-is; i.e., the check-in areas haven't changed, and one can choose to check in there as well. I checked in at the usual SkyPriority section of T2 yesterday for a flight out of the T2 "C" gates.

Here are some more pics of T4 from yesterday (Sunday 26 May, the first day the sun came out since the opening):

Curbside Checkin (new positions built for DL):
T4 Delta New Curbside checkin


SkyPriority Check-in and sitting area:
T4 SkyPriority Check-in area

T4 SkyPriority Check-in Sitting Area Wall


My new favorite spot: The SkyDeck:
T4 SkyDeck Sun 26 May 2013


Couple of other points:
- The new SkyClub is HUGE, and has SUPERB, almost unobstructed views of both sides of T4 (including a great view of the entire length of T3 on one end)
- The new extension gate areas are brighter and appear roomier/more spacious than the exisiting T4B gate area; the difference is quite stark when you go from the B20-B31 gates part (cluttered, low ceilings) to the new B32 - B41 extension area
- There is a separate TSA area for connecting passengers to get back to departures (so pax don't have to go to the Departures level and use the TSA checkpoints there)
- They have added more immigration booths perpendicular to the existing lineup across the building
- The shops and restaurants in the B32-B41 extension area are much better spaced and built in than the ones in the old B20-B31 area (hopefully Delta et al will change that in the future)
- There are still 3 common-use gates in the T4B pier for other airlines; these are gates B27, B29, and B31. The gate podium wall however, is already painted the Delta navy blue, just without the Delta Air France KLM logo yet. Airlines still using these gates include Swiss, PIA, Uzbekistan, Asiana, SAA, Avianca, Etihad, and EL AL. Skyteam airlines using T4B now include KLM and China Airlines - both use dedicated Delta gates though.
- TSA PreCheck is now available at T4 and is located to the extreme right, next to the First/Business line, and directly adjacent to the SkyPriority check-in area. PreCheck is also coming to T2, and they are currently adding two more TSA lanes to the T2 TSA area
- Delta has two long rows of regular check-in counters (Rows 1 and 2) for regular passengers. Check-in row 1A is the one that leads to the SkyPriority check-in area.

[Edited 2013-05-27 07:40:57]

User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 848 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4348 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 21):
Wether the building was there now or not it is still DELTA'S NEW TERMINAL

Agreed - but they should have their moment in the news, that's the purpose of good PR. Further note, it's not even Delta's terminal - there are still a fair few other airlines using it and it's not owned by Delta.

Quoting panamair (Reply 50):
They have added more immigration booths perpendicular to the existing lineup across the building

I hope so - JFK immigration at certain times of the day is dire, but whether they add new booths or not is meaningless unless they're actually staffed.


User currently offlinealfa164 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 557 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4190 times:

I have just returned through T4 (and then departed), and I have very mixed feelings about it.

First, the good news: Customs and Immigration is much better than T3, and quite quick (I was in BE, so I was at the front of our line). Once back in the departure gates, though, it was... just another airline terminal. The Sky Club was fine; it is very large, if somewhat aniseptic (the DTW club is still my favorite; I am not really a fan of the "mid-60's modern look" in the new/remodeled clubs). The very l-o-n-g concourse seems a little brighter, and the new area is lighter than the old, but the low ceilings and overall blandness of the scene is nothing special.

I remember being in the rotunda of T3 many times, always feeling that, by eliminating the add-ons and closed-off second level food court (when PA opened the terminal, it was much more "open" than it is now), it would still be a timeless terminal that seems like a real home for a premium (iconic?) airline. Alas, its replacement - T4 - is just another, albeit more-efficient, warehouse for flyers. If Southwest Airlines gets downgraded for its "cattle car" boarding, then T4 is Delta's cattle chute.

So I have to conclude: It's no T8. It's no Inchon. It's not what a restored T3 could have been. It's not even up to the standards of Detroit - my favorite domestic airport. Millions of passengers won't care. Some of us do... we spend enough time in terminals to see the diferences.

I love going through Inchon, and - since the majority of my flying is to Asia - I hope I can get the equivalent of my Delta DM status with them. It's a choice of flying JFK-ICN and onward or JFK (T4)-NRT onward... T4 isn't enough of an "improvement" to get my vote.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 53, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4114 times:

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 52):

I agree that ICN is a wonderful airport....my favorite also, but if you're looking for warehouse space at JFK....T-5 is the place to be. T-8 was built (or half built) to AA's specs. DL could only do so much with T-4 and did the reasonably best they could with what they had.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 800 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3619 times:

All I know is I have had numerous ticked off pax who say they "can't check in at T2 (C gates) though I'm sure I saw people checking in there when I went to my aircraft the other day. Who knows?


My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlinegeorgiaame From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 994 posts, RR: 6
Reply 55, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3488 times:

A few years ago, I had the unbelievable misfortune of making international connections with DL via JFK. It saved me about $50. From the moments before touchdown, to the arrival in T3 (the old, round terminal of my childhood?), to the surrealistic "Blade Runner" experience of steam billowing everywhere, of rain pouring through the roof of the terminal, surly, typical New Yorker "employees", walking into a bus in the pouring rain, pouring rain pouring INTO the bus who's windows could not be shut, into the old terminal, and the business lounge from hell, well you get my point. It was a travel horror story the likes of which I had never before, or after, encountered. I swore then that under penalty of death, I would never go near JFK as long as I lived. This looks fantastic! Sort of Delta Atlanta, on steroids. Hope it works out for them.


"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineBurj From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 901 posts, RR: 4
Reply 56, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

I posted my trip report a few days ago from the opening day....LOTS of photos if you don't feel like ready the actual report...

DL ROC->LGA->***JFK T4 Expansion***->DTW->ROC (by Burj May 26 2013 in Trip Reports)


User currently offlinealfa164 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 557 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 53):
DL could only do so much with T-4 and did the reasonably best they could with what they had.

No argument here from me. T4 is like putting a big muffler on a Yugo... all the cosmetics in the world won't change the reality.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
DL JFK-PRG And ATL-BCN To Become Seasonal posted Thu Jun 14 2012 16:08:41 by FL787
DL's JFK-LAX And BusinessElite posted Fri Oct 23 2009 08:21:31 by FlyASAGuy2005
DL Starts LAX-TIJ And DEN-JFK posted Thu Apr 12 2007 18:40:25 by MaverickM11
DL, JFK DXB And Others posted Thu Oct 5 2006 09:14:04 by GFA330
DL JFK T4B: Leading Edge Or Just Better Than T2/3 posted Mon May 20 2013 11:03:20 by questions
DL JFK-GEO Gets The Axe posted Mon Feb 11 2013 07:51:39 by OOer
Cathay Pacific New Premium Y And Y (pics) posted Mon Feb 27 2012 14:57:33 by alaskaqantas
DL 737-900ER Seats And Avod? posted Wed Oct 19 2011 17:17:59 by fanoftristars
United's JFK Based FAs And EWR Growth posted Wed Oct 19 2011 11:18:07 by caleb1
DL JFK-BDL ... 1 Hr. 45 Min? posted Fri Nov 26 2010 14:24:08 by stlgph