Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Emirates At Manchester  
User currently offlineek-a380 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 164 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12580 times:

Hello

Does anybody have any information on further route development by EK at Manchester?

Aircraft upgrades?

Fourth daily flight?

Fifth freedom flights to additional destinations?

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6808 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12403 times:

Reply 6 in

MAN News 49.. QR 787 Time (by david_itl May 16 2013 in Civil Aviation)

suggests that with pax numbers being the way they are, EK19/20 will go to an A380 and there'll be an EK23/24, so 2x A380/day and 4 daily(?) services.

I presume, should it happen, the 4th service will go at midnight and other timings will be rejigged so there'll be a flight every 6hrs or so.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12352 times:

To my knowledge the plan is for 2x A380 and 2x B77W. I forget the exact timescale, but it was not long.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinecornishsimon From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2013, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12350 times:

Is MAN operating under a night curfew or could a later flight take off at say 0100 ?


cs


User currently onlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6808 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12242 times:

Quoting cornishsimon (Reply 3):
Is MAN operating under a night curfew

No. For the most part there have never been scheduled pax flights departing between around 11pm and 6am, but there are a number of charter flights overnight, more often arriving than departing.

What the airport is doing is in this document. There is no curfew, but there are restrictions.

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/m...t+Night+Noise+Policy+2012-2017.pdf



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently onlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7392 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11783 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

EK23/24 is slated to be "shadowing" EK17/18 - the route's following the same kind of strategy that they did at LHR where EK29/30 was the 4th flight

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 11592 times:

Quoting cornishsimon (Reply 3):
Is MAN operating under a night curfew or could a later flight take off at say 0100 ?

Remember, it is about connectivity. If it departed MAN at 1am it'd be scheduled to arrive DXB at around 11am. While there are eastward departures in the 2pm-4pm period, there aren't many. This would give it little connectivity in Dubai. And as it'd likely arrive into MAN around 1130pm, it'd probably depart DXB about 650pm - with this flight not fed by many arrivals in DXB. Note that the 12pm-1259pm inbound bank are primarlily from the east.

Quoting david_itl (Reply 5):
EK23/24 is slated to be "shadowing" EK17/18 - the route's following the same kind of strategy that they did at LHR where EK29/30 was the 4th flight

This makes more sense and is logical for a fourth-daily.

===

For your interest, the following shows EK's arrivals and departures in DXB for the w/c 20th May 2013.




"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3075 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 11592 times:

Quoting david_itl (Reply 5):

EK23/24 is slated to be "shadowing" EK17/18 - the route's following the same kind of strategy that they did at LHR where EK29/30 was the 4th flight

IMO, thats the way to go. Morning bank departures (from DXB) seem to be packed, so another service at that time would make sense.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlinebritannia25 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11360 times:

Hi

2 A380s and 2 77Ws a day from Manchester? Really? Plus 2 77Ws down the road at Birmingham, not to mention all the flights out of London. Is that really sustainable? I am no expert and of course, do not work for Emirates management but how on earth do they make money on such a route and is that amount of frequency not going into over-kill.

Cheers

 


User currently offlineTheAviator380 From UK - England, joined Feb 2013, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10636 times:

Quoting britannia25 (Reply 8):

That's the way EK work I guess, everytime I have flown on this route or someone I know who has, every time Y class is almost full. EK will make it work, they know their business.

It is but natural to feel what you thinking but somehow EK make it work all the times.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10531 times:

Quoting britannia25 (Reply 8):
2 A380s and 2 77Ws a day from Manchester? Really? Plus 2 77Ws down the road at Birmingham, not to mention all the flights out of London. Is that really sustainable?

Try 3 77Ws from BHX by then - a third flight will be coming soon. Once the runway extension is complete at least one of those will go to an A388.

The Gulf carriers carry a huge amount of traffic between the Midlands/North West and Pakistan/Bangladesh/India. And that's just one market for them.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3208 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10307 times:

Think it will remain as it is for the foreseeable future, 2x773 1x380. If they were to introduce a 2nd A380, it would be seasonal and only replace one of the 777's. The high demand isn't all year round as some may think.

On the subject of curfew/restrictions. Airlines are allowed depart/land throughout the night, however between the hours of 2359-0600 (I think) any departures have to pay the airport extra, kind of like a fine, for not departing before midnight. (Mainly due to noise/compensation). There's quite a few airlines who have departures in the middle of the night, TCX to ZTH, KM to MLA, ZB and TOM to IBZ....



Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlinemagpie75 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10236 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Now that QF has teamed up with EK, the Manchester route is the 2nd busiest route for QF behind LHR on EK metal of course to Europe . The QF/EK partnership is going to help Emirates really grow some of these secondary European markets.

[Edited 2013-05-25 03:49:55]

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9773 times:

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 11):
On the subject of curfew/restrictions. Airlines are allowed depart/land throughout the night, however between the hours of 2359-0600 (I think) any departures have to pay the airport extra, kind of like a fine, for not departing before midnight. (Mainly due to noise/compensation).

Between 23:30 and 05:59 only stage 3 compliant aircraft are allowed - although that is pretty much anything these days. Aircraft must also not exceed 96 PNdB between 23:00 and 06:59, if they do there is a £750 charge plus £150 for every dB over this limit.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinegoosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9042 times:

Quoting britannia25 (Reply 8):
2 A380s and 2 77Ws a day from Manchester? Really? Plus 2 77Ws down the road at Birmingham, not to mention all the flights out of London. Is that really sustainable? I

You're missing out the Newcastle and Glasgow flights too.

With MAN you also have to consider Qatar and Etihad. BA are missing out on a lot of business because they refuse to develop outside of LHR.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8062 times:

Which flight do we expect to become the second daily A380? I've been on the afternoon flight several times over the past 18 months, which was full on two occasions and 90% full the third.

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 11):
If they were to introduce a 2nd A380, it would be seasonal and only replace one of the 777's. The high demand isn't all year round as some may think.

That's generally not the way that EK does things. They'll either find a way to make it work as an A380 year round or leave it as a 77W.


User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1793 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8032 times:

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 14):
With MAN you also have to consider Qatar and Etihad. BA are missing out on a lot of business because they refuse to develop outside of LHR.

In the same way QR and EY refuse to develop outside of DOH and AUH. But that's the age old argument.



Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlineek-a380 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6417 times:

Does anybody have any idea of when they may introduce these changes?

User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4211 posts, RR: 37
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6398 times:

How does EK support so many seats out of MAN? Is it a large arab population or connections beyond DXB?


Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineek-a380 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6235 times:

There is a huge Indian Sub-Continent and Chinese population in and around MAN plus a large demand for travel to Australia which is where the majority of their passengers are heading to. Cargo is also another good area they tap into well and overall they do very well.

I remember the time when they flew from MAN to DXB twice a week via FRA and ZRH and today they have 3 x daily service. Absolutely phenomenal growth and they know their business, coupled with a big gap by the likes of BA and VS who have written off long haul from MAN.


User currently onlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7392 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 6037 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting magpie75 (Reply 12):
The QF/EK partnership is going to help Emirates really grow some of these secondary European markets.

Really grow? So instead of 85% loads, it will be 90%+ loads in some months?!

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 11):
The high demand isn't all year round as some may think.

Normally round Ramadan it tapers off, Affects other airports as well

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 16):
In the same way QR and EY refuse to develop outside of DOH and AUH

Not really. So you really see QR wanting to operate out of AUH or DXB (part of the drawback being that they are not part of the UAE) and would Dubai really welcome EY - EY's not got half the network of EK and tends to follow EK's lead in route launches. Whereas as BA had the domestic/Euro routes that any one that possessed a braincell at BA could have tinkered around the long-haul routes that were there at the time. But braincells at BA and operating out of UK regional airports are mutually exclusive concepts


User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1793 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5866 times:

David_itl read my comment again. I was inferring that QR and EY are only interested in DOH and AUH in the same way that BA are on LHR.

As for the EK market ex MAN, there is a large Pakistani, Indian and Chinese market but don't underestimate the disposable income of the white, British population (dispite the northern England stereotype) who like to travel to Asia aswell as our historic links to Oz!



Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5716 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5786 times:

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 21):
the EK market ex MAN, there is a large Pakistani, Indian and Chinese market

  

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 21):
don't underestimate the disposable income of the white, British population

Oh so true, EK carry a very good number of people to MLE, MRU etc. plus a decent number pay for J.

Another market is the historically strong trade and investment between Manchester and Hong Kong. While going via DXB is a bit of a detour plenty of people do. My mother works for a Manchester-based company with their primary operations in HK/PRC, the UK executives fly EK F from MAN to HKG or PVG.

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 21):
our historic links to Oz!

From when I lived near MAN, I got the sense that many passengers were "outbound". As someone said up thread, however, Manchester is the second largest destination in Europe for Australians flying to Europe. That's a pretty incredible statistic (although I 100% believe it) and it shows that there is a large inbound market, as well as outbound.

(for fairness, we should also mention New Zealand as well!)



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5547 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 22):

I suspect a significant portion of that traffic from Australia is English ex pats living in Australia not Australian tourists.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5184 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 10):
Try 3 77Ws from BHX by then - a third flight will be coming soon. Once the runway extension is complete at least one of those will go to an A388.

Excpet growth at Birmingham has not come close to matching growth at MAN, there's little call for a third daily flight let alone an A388. What's the runway extension got to do with it btw? It's not an issue for EK to DXB.


User currently offlineBlueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2983 posts, RR: 23
Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5288 times:

Runway extension has ZERO impact on Emirates' presence at BHX.

Fact is, EK loads on the surface are declining at BHX. Scratch below the surface and the stats suggest Turkish are eating Emirates' lunch when it comes to Business class. How long they can undercut Emirates is anyone's guess. What is undoubted is that TK's success has come at the expense of a third daily EK service and any notion of a new QR route.

Where Manchester differs is in its ability to accomodate EK, QR, EY AND TK successfully and profitably.

BHX has its own market, but anyone who suggests its runway extension is going to open the flood gates to additional and new routes, needs to do some more reserch in to UK passenger flows, trends and demands.

Rgds

[Edited 2013-05-26 10:44:52]

[Edited 2013-05-26 10:45:38]


So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 26, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5153 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 24):
Excpet growth at Birmingham has not come close to matching growth at MAN, there's little call for a third daily flight let alone an A388.

In the future they appear to think otherwise. I have no reason to doubt my source for this information.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 24):
What's the runway extension got to do with it btw? It's not an issue for EK to DXB.

For the majority of the year no, but there are times when it would be a limiting factor.

Quoting Blueshamu330s (Reply 25):
What is undoubted is that TK's success has come at the expense of a third daily EK service and any notion of a new QR route.

The QR route didn't materialise due to aircraft shortage, TK came in at the perfect time really. They may have delayed a third EK frequency, but a daily narrowbody isn't exactly the end of EK's world.

Quoting Blueshamu330s (Reply 25):
BHX has its own market, but anyone who suggests its runway extension is going to open the flood gates to additional and new routes, needs tdo some more reserch in to UK passenger flows, trends and demands.

It's not going to be instrumental in gaining any of those, which would almost certainly be operated by 787/A330/A350 type aircraft initially, if/when they occur. But there are larger types which would struggle year round on a 10+ hour route from BHX's current runway. Right now it may be inconceivable that BHX could support a daily 77W to HKG, but look at the latest passenger forecasts for the south east and compare them against available capacity - there isn't enough long term even if we add runways at LHR/LGW. That demand is going to leak somewhere and BHX isn't in a bad place to soak it up.

Admittedly I used to be critical of BHX's extension myself - I'm still unconvinced by many of aspirations attached to it. But having studied the figures in detail, looking long term I can see there is a need and building it during a recession/downturn makes a big saving.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently onlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7392 posts, RR: 14
Reply 27, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5157 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 26):
That demand is going to leak somewhere and BHX isn't in a bad place to soak it up.

Perhaps so, if we ignore the tens of thousands of passengers that fly MAN-LHR-HKG. Even VS said there was only (only!) 90,000 passengers who they claim would go on a VS-introduced service and so wouldn't be profitable it they operated daily. What a BA/CX combine would be able to do is another matter... plus CX wasn't expecting to operate daily with abortive HKG-SVO-MAN service that was announced so why VS came out with that is something that may need more elaboration.

BHX is not the saviour for the South East's "aviation crisis". MAN has enough scope to pick up some of the scraps from a shortage of LHR/LGW slots - after all, if we consider LHR/LGW as "London" then MAN is traditionally the 2nd UK point of entry for an airline - it mainly loses out to BHX in securing the (in)direct links to India. If London pax figures generated from the BHX catchment area for these airlines warranted an expansion into the regions, then I'm more than sure BHX could/should have been chosen over MAN. At present, it just looks rather desperate by BHX at the moment - effectively they are saying "Come to us because we're near London you know!" rather than make a cast iron positive spin about the potential traffic in the BHX catchment area that are having to commute to London. Witness MAN - they've spent the last couple of years trying to secure a Chinese link based on the business + VFR links and stating a third of the UK's annual traffic to China came from the MAN catchment area (some 200,000 passengers out of the 600,000 passengers).


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 28, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5049 times:

Quoting david_itl (Reply 27):
BHX is not the saviour for the South East's "aviation crisis". MAN has enough scope to pick up some of the scraps from a shortage of LHR/LGW slots - after all, if we consider LHR/LGW as "London" then MAN is traditionally the 2nd UK point of entry for an airline

So you are suggesting that overspill from the South East will be happy to drive/travel to the North West to fly out of MAN, instead of using the nearer airports with capacity? Sorry, not going to happen. Being a traditional second point of entry is aside of the point, the issue here is that the South East is imminently going to run out of runway capacity. That overcapacity will be soaked up by the nearest available airports with capacity, not those half way up the country.

Quoting david_itl (Reply 27):
At present,

Exactly - at present. Aside of Heathrow the South East airports are not yet at capacity, but they will all be by 2030 (High: 2025, low: 2040). Adding runways now will help, but even if they became available today we are still well behind the curve. Birmingham are planning for the future here, not right now.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4966 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 26):
In the future they appear to think otherwise. I have no reason to doubt my source for this information.

The available facts would seem to contradict him.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 26):
I can see there is a need and building it during a recession/downturn makes a big saving.

Major capital investment in a recession generating savings how and when? It's not the same as government spending, this is commercial with a need for some return on investment.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 28):
That overcapacity will be soaked up by the nearest available airports with capacity, not those half way up the country.

This is a classic mistake I think. I cannot think of many airlines operating out of BHX because LHR is denied to them. Indeed I can only think of two long haul carriers still at LGW for the same reason (Air China and Vietnam, as Korean Air are not coming back!). What has happened is, and will continue to do so, is they use an offshore alliance hub like FRA for STAR and AMS/CDG for Skyteam. Let's be clear, one thing HS2 will do is make LHR closer to Birmingham, it will not help BHX in the way they hope.


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 30, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4889 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 28):
Exactly - at present. Aside of Heathrow the South East airports are not yet at capacity, but they will all be by 2030 (High: 2025, low: 2040). Adding runways now will help, but even if they became available today we are still well behind the curve. Birmingham are planning for the future here, not right now.

Personally I remain dubious of the growth projections and forecasts.
They have always been overly optimistic !

It is true the South East (Well LHR only) is effectively at capacity however the other terminals are a long way from full.

As for Birmingham I say what I always say because its true they need to develop an effective EUROPEAN network serving their local catchment and thats tourism and business to business connections for the many thousands of small to medium enterprises plus the motor industry and their suppliers within the EU.

As for Long Haul those that can't get into London in future will go elsewhere (Mainland European Hubs and the like of Dusseldorf, Barcelona, Geneva and Milan ) before looking at Birmingham and even Manchester - that's the facts right now and it will remain so.

The loss WILL be UK PLC but that's where we are headed.

As for Manchester's Chinese aspirations much is down to current bilateral AND government Visa restrictions deterring the mainland carriers. They are prioritising European expansion on the mainland.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 31, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):
The available facts would seem to contradict him.

I would disagree. Yes TK entering the route with aggressive pricing has had an impact, but not that significantly. Put it this way, they have been bang on with everything else, so I'm going with it.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):
Major capital investment in a recession generating savings how and when?

Most construction costs are linked to demand, when demand drops so do costs. A construction industry in recession can lead to some very significant savings on a contract/project. Last one I dealt with was ~15% cheaper to construct in 2012 than initially spec'd pre-crash - ironic, considering it was the crash which halted the build. Some plant costs for instance have dropped by as much as 70% and it's now an employers market for labor, this more than offsets inflation elsewhere.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):
What has happened is, and will continue to do so, is they use an offshore alliance hub like FRA for STAR and AMS/CDG for Skyteam.

I'm talking about capacity in general spilling out of the South East here, not exclusively about that generating long haul services. As the saying goes, you can't get a quart into a pint pot, be the passenger flying to a beach in Egypt or to a conference in Shanghai.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):
Let's be clear, one thing HS2 will do is make LHR closer to Birmingham, it will not help BHX in the way they hope.

There is a fundamental flaw in making an airport already operating at capacity accessible to more people - unless major expansion is foreseeable. Now I don't see BHX benefiting from HS2 either, but drawing more passenger journeys into the South East is not sustainable - it will end up displacing capacity out to other airports, one of which includes BHX.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 30):
It is true the South East (Well LHR only) is effectively at capacity however the other terminals are a long way from full.

The problem is runway capacity - I'm not sure if you are referring to a terminal as in an airport or the building itself?

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 30):
The loss WILL be UK PLC but that's where we are headed.

I'll reserve judgement until the Airports Commission report in full. My opinion is that it's a vehicle for a pre-conceived political plan to be executed, which one though remains to be seen.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4688 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 31):
The problem is runway capacity

No the problem is a lack of hub capacity at Heathrow, there is a fair bit of runway capacity lying empty at STN, SEN and LCY off peak, even LGW is dead at times.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 31):
but drawing more passenger journeys into the South East is not sustainable -

What does that even mean? Not sustainable in what term? Ten years? Twenty? A hundred? People fly to where they want to go to, London is one of the three major "world" cities and benefits from a massive inbound tourist demand and entrenched business. At first principles that demand needs to be met otherwise all those debts that our forefathers ran up will never be paid off. Ever. The country is in a frightening position finanacially and unless we can the maximum bang for our buck, our children will be worse off then our parents were.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 31):
My opinion is that it's a vehicle for a pre-conceived political plan to be executed, which one though remains to be seen.

Well you're right, it's Heathrow, it always is. Anyone who takes a long hard cold lool knows this. The last government even gave it the go ahead until "call me Dave" assumed there would be a better way. Well they've had a long look and now they know there isn't. The politics of marginals in West London rule the roost here and to Hell with the economic strategy for jobs and investment.

BHX also remains sandwiched between five A380s a day at LHR and very strong spoke of three per day at Manchester. MAN will go twice daily A388 before much longer but I suspect BHX will plateau, as United have already discovered, at current levels.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 33, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4625 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 32):
No the problem is a lack of hub capacity at Heathrow, there is a fair bit of runway capacity lying empty at STN, SEN and LCY off peak, even LGW is dead at times.

STN yes, SEN would have to chuck the GA out and/or apply for a higher movements cap, LTN will have a bit more with the infrastructure alterations, and to some extent LCY has capacity, but is very type limited. But LGW, no, I can't think of any sensible times of the day that it's dead, give it five years (if that) and it'll be at full capacity.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 32):
What does that even mean?

You can't keep on pouring water into a jug that's full. Demand from the South East will exceed capacity in the South East, adding more capacity from other regions is not sustainable, you want to be stemming it if anything.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 32):
People fly to where they want to go to

Which is my point. If you want to access the Midlands, fly to BHX. Encouraging people to use LHR to access Birmingham and the like by HS2 is not a sustainable or sensible approach.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinegilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

Manchester is supporting the current 3x daily EK services with just traffic from it's own region, and very much the same can be said for services out of Birmingham, I think it would be stupid to say these are supported from overspill traffic from the South East... Its possible passengers who live between London/Birmingham and Birmingham/Manchester might switch and choose a flight based upon timings or cost.

As well as Heathrow's four daily A380's with EK to DXB, LGW also has three daily flights with 2x 77W and 1x A380 too. While Gatwick is busy, EK could easily get a fourth daily slot there.

Going back to the Manchester discussion, I would imagine a second daily A380 will be added to one of the existing 77W routes before a fourth rotation is added. But upgrading the aircraft is only going to be adding an additional 80 odd seats of extra capacity, which will probably buy the airline an additional 6-12 months of time, before they need to add that fourth service.

Seeing as we will soon be going into peak travel season here in the UK, and the summer schedules by now should be finalised, I doubt we will see any extra capacity added to MAN until next year now.

What type of 77W config aircraft does EK use on their MAN routes? I know the BHX routes are the very high density 442 seat config type with no First product.

It was mentioned passenger numbers are down on the BHX-DXB route, but in latest March 2013 figures, they are 45282, which is only down 0.5% on the same period last year, and that is still averaging a load of over 380 passengers per flight!

Once the runway extension is completed at BHX, I don't think it will be long before the A380 is introduced by EK. I understand Cargo is very strong on the route too, which would also benefit, from the capacity increase. But I think this will be the one of the only routes to benefit from the runway extension.

Even though the 787's will soon be appearing thick and fast at Qatar Airways, there still no news of if/when the new BHX-DOH service will start. I contacted QR on this subject earlier this month and got this reply:

Dear Mr. Davies,

Thank you for your e-mail dated 7th May 2013.

We regret to inform you that we are unable to advise you of a date when we expect to start services to/from Birmingham.

Once it is known when we shall be starting services to/from any destination, Qatar Airways will be pleased to announced this through the various communication channels.

We look forward to another opportunity of welcoming you on our services in the near future.

Yours truly,

Ali N. Alharazi
Senior Officer Customer Care


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 35, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4579 times:

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 34):
I think it would be stupid to say these are supported from overspill traffic from the South East...

Overspill is going to happen in the future, so you may as well get used to it.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 34):
Once the runway extension is completed at BHX, I don't think it will be long before the A380 is introduced by EK. I understand Cargo is very strong on the route too, which would also benefit, from the capacity increase. But I think this will be the one of the only routes to benefit from the runway extension.

It wouldn't, as the A388 carries less cargo than the 77W.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4558 times:

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 34):
As well as Heathrow's four daily A380's with EK to DXB, LGW also has three daily flights with 2x 77W and 1x A380 too. While Gatwick is busy, EK could easily get a fourth daily slot there.

LHR is 5 A380s (plus the 2 daily QF A380s), while LGW is 3 77Ws. I imagine LHR will grow once BA returns their leased QF slots (2 pairs), while LGW will get A380s before a fourth daily flight is added.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 34):
Seeing as we will soon be going into peak travel season here in the UK, and the summer schedules by now should be finalised, I doubt we will see any extra capacity added to MAN until next year now.

I tend to agree, though the existing flight was started in September. EK doesn't really do summer/winter schedules, so will add flights when they have the planes available to do so.


User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4486 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 36):
LHR is 5 A380s (plus the 2 daily QF A380s), while LGW is 3 77Ws. I imagine LHR will grow once BA returns their leased QF slots (2 pairs), while LGW will get A380s before a fourth daily flight is added.

How many daily flights are there in the LON-UAE route? I am getting

LHR-DXB

5 EK A380
2 QF A380
1 BA B777
1 BA B747
1 VS A340
1 BI B777

LGW-DXB

3 EK B777

LHR-AUH

2 EY B777
1 EY A340
1 BA B777

So Emirates+QF alone are putting 489x5 + 484x2 + 364x3 = 4,505 seats in each direction every day. 3.288 million seats per year? Am I right? I wonder how long will take DXB to overtake JFK as the first international route from LHR with the new QF services and the 5th EK A380.

[Edited 2013-05-26 20:27:33]

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5716 posts, RR: 5
Reply 38, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4429 times:

Quoting nickofatlanta (Reply 23):
I suspect a significant portion of that traffic from Australia is English ex pats living in Australia

No doubt, but it is still a decent number of people flying from Australia to Manchester regardless of the reason that they're going.

Similarly the third largest destination is ATH. That is undoubtedly due to the massive Greek diaspora here rather than because lots of Australian tourists want to see the Acropolis or lie on a beach in Crete.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 36):
LGW will get A380s
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 37):
So Emirates+QF alone are putting 489x5 + 484x2 + 364x3 = 4,505 seats in each direction every day

This is a rumour, so take it for what it's worth, but I've heard that LGW could have an A380 by year end.

Does LGW have an A380 capable gate? If not then I guess that puts the rumour to bed.

[Edited 2013-05-26 21:17:47]


Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineBoysteve From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 944 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 34):
Manchester is supporting the current 3x daily EK services with just traffic from it's own region,

Many parts of Yorkshire are served by EK at MAN, not just it's own 'North West' region.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 34):
Going back to the Manchester discussion, I would imagine a second daily A380 will be added to one of the existing 77W routes before a fourth rotation is added. But upgrading the aircraft is only going to be adding an additional 80 odd seats of extra capacity

Hmmm, surely it depends of F & J demand? Upgrading EK19/20 to an A388 gives a noteable increase in F & J capacity (in percentage terms). IF the demand is more Y-led then surely it would make more sense to add a fourth flight (2 class A332) rather than sending a second A388.


User currently onlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7392 posts, RR: 14
Reply 40, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4286 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 34):
What type of 77W config aircraft does EK use on their MAN routes? I know the BHX routes are the very high density 442 seat config type with no First product.

First is available on all the MAN services. It's also available on GLA which is more of a surprise given that was started a bit after BHX,.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3962 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 33):
Which is my point. If you want to access the Midlands, fly to BHX. Encouraging people to use LHR to access Birmingham and the like by HS2 is not a sustainable or sensible approach.

No but using a hub is "profitable" which beats sustainable. If you want sustainable, subsidise it rather than TAX it to death.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 34):
As well as Heathrow's four daily A380's with EK to DXB

Five daily, EK008 / 002 / 030 / 004 / 006.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 35):
Overspill is going to happen in the future, so you may as well get used to it.

Funny how many years they've been saying that, I work as marketing analyst and that theory is just bunkum in this situation, it really, really is.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 38):
Does LGW have an A380 capable gate? If not then I guess that puts the rumour to bed.

Gate 110 was re-profiled at frankly eye watering expense to take the A388. Emirates had a test run recently and the Lufthansa A380 was parked on it yesterday.


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 42, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3922 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 41):
Overspill is going to happen in the future, so you may as well get used to it.

Funny how many years they've been saying that, I work as marketing analyst and that theory is just bunkum in this situation, it really, really is.

Agreed in every respect.

The pressures at LHR will result in up-gauging and for the incumbent carriers can only lead to increased yield as fares can only increase as demand is rationed by available supply !

BA know this very well !

Again the regional airports specifically BHX needs to strengthen those European routes to Hubs and secondary airports because that's still where you will be connecting to your Far Eastern Flight if Emirates doesn't appeal.

Plymouth man very few South of Banbury will choose BHX over LHR or even LTN and west of Stour Bristol has some appeal especially for the price conscious with EZY and RYR.

North well say no more.

Geography is BHX's achilles heal.

[Edited 2013-05-27 05:48:19]

User currently offlinesandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3902 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 39):
Hmmm, surely it depends of F & J demand? Upgrading EK19/20 to an A388 gives a noteable increase in F & J capacity (in percentage terms). IF the demand is more Y-led then surely it would make more sense to add a fourth flight (2 class A332) rather than sending a second A388.

Having recently flown out of MAN on the EK A380 in F I can say that this flight was very light in F (3pax / 14 seats) but almost full in J & Y. Granted that was just the flight I was on but I understand its quite typical. EK have said they'll fly a 2-class A388 so perhaps this is the type of demand they mean?

MAN pulls pax from across the Northwest which is some 8million people. Given there will be some feed from the south (let's say a catchment area of 4 million more) then that is a healthy market with no real competition to the UAE. Ok so Qatar but EK is dominant.

EK First Class MAN-JNB, CPT-GLA (by sandyb123 May 18 2013 in Trip Reports)

Sandyb123

[Edited 2013-05-27 06:00:34]


Member of the mile high club
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 44, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3852 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 41):
Funny how many years they've been saying that, I work as marketing analyst and that theory is just bunkum in this situation, it really, really is.

I respectfully disagree, personally and professionally.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 42):
The pressures at LHR will result in up-gauging and for the incumbent carriers can only lead to increased yield as fares can only increase as supply is rationed by demand !

And increased fares will lead to more price sensitive passengers using airports outside of the South East.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 42):
very few South of Banbury will choose BHX over LHR or even LTN and west of Stour Bristol has some appeal especially for the price conscious with EZY and RYR.

Just to clarify again, I am not talking exclusively about BHX benefiting from overspill. But in terms of your example I think you are forgetting Oxford. By public transport it is significantly easier and quicker to reach BHX than LHR or LTN, by road there is around ten minutes difference - travel habits do reflect this.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 42):
Geography is BHX's achilles heal.

I would say perception is actually.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 45, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3803 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 44):
Just to clarify again, I am not talking exclusively about BHX benefiting from overspill. But in terms of your example I think you are forgetting Oxford. By public transport it is significantly easier and quicker to reach BHX than LHR or LTN, by road there is around ten minutes difference - travel habits do reflect this.

Seriously !

You know how often the Oxford Tube Bus service operates 24/7, have you seen the cars including mine at times under the bridge at the Watlington junction near Calk cutting on the M42.

There also buses that go through to Gatwick hourly and I would suggest unless you live in Blackbird Leys driving your 4X4 or BMW (Drug dealers excluded) through Thame and Aylesbury to Luton is hardly a hardship !

Yes I know Oxford VERY WELL - lived there in formative years !

[Edited 2013-05-27 06:27:37]

User currently offlineDanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1813 posts, RR: 9
Reply 46, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

EK upgraded the evening service to a three class 77W with F due to the continuing demand.


Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 47, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 45):
You know how often the Oxford Tube Bus service operates 24/7,

Yes, as a matter of fact I use it often, but how is this relevant to reaching LHR from Oxford? The Tube serves London itself, and even though the frequency and WiFi are good it's still a bit arduous to connect on to LCY that way, although I have done it a few times.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 45):
There also buses that go through to Gatwick hourly

And takes what is it, 2 hours at best? Last time I did this it was around 2h 20 minutes during late morning at the weekend. Yes, that really beats one hour on the train to BHX. It wasn't any cheaper by coach either - £36 return IIRC compared to £33 by train for open returns bought on the day, although this was last year. And I can't count the number of times I've done Oxford-Luton/Stansted by coach, it is a slow and tedious trip.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 45):
Yes I know Oxford VERY WELL - lived there in formative years !

Likewise, my partner is from the vicinity. BHX is a very attractive option for travel to/from the Oxford area, and it's not even marketed that well.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 48, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3723 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 44):
And increased fares will lead to more price sensitive passengers using airports outside of the South East.

Agreed on this point yet most of that price sensitive traffic is likely to be short/medium haul rather than long haul.

We constantly have these debates and the implication is growth will be long haul -Well I am not convinced.

You might think I have an bias against Birmingham well that's not the case.

All i stress is that the BHX (Also MAG Group) management stop daydreaming and focus - Foremost in serving their locality and catchment stakeholders and providing profits to their shareholders.


User currently offlineLuftyMatt From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 16):
In the same way QR and EY refuse to develop outside of DOH and AUH

When did they refuse that?   Besides those countries are a lot smaller than the UK, and a have a significantly smaller population. Not to mention only the one airport that I know about.



chase the sun
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 50, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3242 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 44):
And increased fares will lead to more price sensitive passengers using airports outside of the South East.

It's not likely fares will rise actually, as the A380 is used more at LHR, through fares over DXB, BKK and KUL remain very competitive? Seriously Dan, if airlines refuse to consider LGW, what makes you think they'll ever use BHX? When will this overspill begin would you say? Adam Thomson was expecting it in 1977 when LHR was closed to new arrivals. A controlled expansion with a runway three (inevitable one way or another), will be the next step. This is why a lot of people are talking of a four runway LHR, so that when runway three is re-approved, it sounds like a reasonable trade off.

Let's be clear, QR walked away from LGW. US Airways, NWA, Continental, Delta and American all walked from LGW. SQ waited over a decade until SA sold them a slot before introducing a new daily UK service, at LHR. If all of these major airlines refuse to overspill to a very capable airport in easy travelling distance of the biggest O&D market in Europe, why in the name of God would they even look at BHX? The long haul track record is poor and not improving. Do TS even fly BHX-YYZ anymore?
AA tried BHX-ORD, dropped. CO tried a DC10 then twice daily BHX-EWR, down gauged to a B757 at which it remains static.I won't mention Highland Express, Wardair or Air Canada as then I'd just feel old, but Birmingham to LHR is about to get much easier and EK and co have many A380s to fill each day. I suspect the fares and offers will be good ones. Current levels of excitement around Air India's comic attempts at route allocation show how far genuine aspiration has fallen on long haul. They don't even have a Virgin weekender to Orlando yet, that's a clue as to how the market views BHX.

MAN is just that bit further away to carve it's own niche out, a great collection of services and airlines. A four a day Emirates would be a sight to see.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 51, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3197 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 50):
It's not likely fares will rise actually, as the A380 is used more at LHR

Alright for some routes, but that's not going to work on most from Heathrow is it, or all the other London/South East airports. You also need to consider the increased separation, ending up with bigger aircraft but fewer possible movements is not going to solve the problem.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 50):
Seriously Dan, if airlines refuse to consider LGW, what makes you think they'll ever use BHX? When will this overspill begin would you say?

Capacity - or the lack of it. You have a finite amount of it in the South East and a growing market, even if we add runways to serve that capacity right now we are still way behind the curve. And note again, I am not just talking about BHX soaking up the overspill, but all airports surrounding the South East. In my opinion it would be unsound to say when it is going to happen because it will be a product of demand and demand by it's very definition fluctuates depending on the economy, market conditions and global events. It will happen though, that much you can be sure of.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 50):
Adam Thomson was expecting it in 1977 when LHR was closed to new arrivals.

There really is no comparison between the situation now and that of 1977.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 50):
This is why a lot of people are talking of a four runway LHR, so that when runway three is re-approved, it sounds like a reasonable trade off.

Hmmm, we'll see on that one. There is a very serious and in my view sensible plan to add two extra runways, it's not being done just to make a third look more attractive. The intention is to ring-fence a decent chunk of that capacity for services to UK regional airports which have lost their links to LHR/LGW in recent years and will not benefit from HSR. However until I see contracts signed to build the new runway(s) I am not getting any hopes up. Even then, it'll be the best part of a decade away, by which time it will barely meet existing demand.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 50):
If all of these major airlines refuse to overspill to a very capable airport in easy travelling distance of the biggest O&D market in Europe, why in the name of God would they even look at BHX? The long haul track record is poor and not improving. Do TS even fly BHX-YYZ anymore?

You are focusing solely on long haul, and solely on BHX. Yes I think that by 2030 BHX will support a select few longhaul services, but that's not just what I am referring to - other airports will accept overspill from the South East on all routes - especially in the short haul leisure markets.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 48):
Agreed on this point yet most of that price sensitive traffic is likely to be short/medium haul rather than long haul.

Yes, short haul leisure/charter demand is going to be particularly easily displaced.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 48):
We constantly have these debates and the implication is growth will be long haul -Well I am not convinced.

It will be across the board, although I can see long haul traffic seeing strong growth to London.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 51):
There really is no comparison between the situation now and that of 1977.

Some things never change though.
OK let's approach this from the other end. Which airlines do you see "over spilling" in the medium term then?

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 51):
The intention is to ring-fence a decent chunk of that capacity for services to UK regional airports which have lost their links to LHR/LGW

Errrrr I think you'll find there isn't, it's more of a "hope"

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 51):

Yes, short haul leisure/charter demand is going to be particularly easily displaced.

From where to where? I genuinely can't get a hold of what this would mean in the real market. easyJet have just re-inforced short haul leisure at Gatters and BA needs it to feed long haul. What do you see moving and to where?


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 53, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 52):
OK let's approach this from the other end. Which airlines do you see "over spilling" in the medium term then?

It's not as simple as saying airline 'x' will over spill - airline 'x' could well be quite happy just maturing the yields on its existing services and letting airlines 'y' and 'z' pick up the price sensitive demand at other airports. It is the demand which will over spill, because in future airports in the South East will not have enough capacity to serve all of it.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 52):
Errrrr I think you'll find there isn't, it's more of a "hope"

No it is a little more advanced than hope, but as I say, we'll see. Until the AC reports things are in limbo.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 52):
From where to where? I genuinely can't get a hold of what this would mean in the real market. easyJet have just re-inforced short haul leisure at Gatters and BA needs it to feed long haul. What do you see moving and to where?

I think you have the wrong idea - the majority of services won't move anywhere, if anything you will just see the least profitable ones ended. What you won't have is the capacity to increase frequencies when demand dictates and to launch new services to emerging destinations without canning frequencies/routes elsewhere - this is especially true of short/medium haul services. This can be alleviated to some extent by increasing aircraft size, but that option is actually quite limited in a market dominated by narrow bodied LCC operators. Unserved or price sensitive demand will seek services elsewhere, in or out of the South East, but as capacity issues will affect the South East as a whole within 20 years, it is increasingly going to be the latter.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 54, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2863 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 53):
No it is a little more advanced than hope

Can you elaborate please?


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 55, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 54):
Can you elaborate please?

I'm afraid not, not in a public forum.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Emirates 777 A6-EBA At Manchester Since Yesterday posted Fri Dec 9 2005 20:24:01 by HARLEYF150
Emirates Terminal Change At Manchester posted Tue May 14 2002 13:40:29 by GF-A330
Why No Emirates At IAD? posted Wed Dec 28 2011 13:04:20 by rjm777ual
Emirates At DXB - Ultimate Operational Analysis posted Mon Sep 27 2010 13:03:15 by HB-IWC
TCX Flights At Manchester posted Tue Jan 6 2009 04:42:54 by TuRbUleNc3
VS At Manchester posted Mon Aug 11 2008 11:21:47 by MANisnumber1
Emirates At Fort Lauderdale posted Sat Feb 16 2008 03:45:26 by MIAMIx707
Lufthansa Eyes BA's Slots...at Manchester! posted Tue Nov 20 2007 11:00:56 by Concorde001
Emirates At VCE posted Mon Apr 23 2007 11:00:21 by LIPH
How Many Flights On Average Per Day At Manchester? posted Tue Apr 17 2007 15:31:16 by 8herveg