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Indiana Aviation: Part 9  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4405 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13066 times:
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Due to length, part eight was archived. Previous thread: Indiana Aviation: Part 8 (by A340Spotter Nov 13 2012 in Civil Aviation)


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
196 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12985 times:
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I'm sure SBN's March Traffic is skewed a little by Spring Break in the case of Allegiant but even they were up in offering their usual daily service to SFB. The problem with United at SBN is their high fares and lousy connecting service westbound at ORD. Delta is ground handling Frontier at SBN and they are actually happy that Frontier is in SBN. Traffic must be good westbound because they already reinstated their morning flight to MSP.

United's main problem at SBN in regard to Frontier is their pilot's scope clause in regards to Republic flying. In order to use an E170 flight to DEN which they would like to they can't because Frontier is part of Republic and Republic is the only ones flying the aircraft flying for them and their pilot's scope clause prevents the competition. Now when Skywest gets the E175's or when Frontier is cut loose from Republic it's a different story but SBN passengers are so used to the full sized A319 aircraft now it's probably to late. United would have to use A319's or B738's on the route which would involve a little ramp rebuild at their gates at SBN plus they would fly a lot of empty airplanes around on the route which wouldn't be good.

United and Delta have been approached about NYC service but even though it is SBN's number one business market, it's only good for the most about 50 seats a day and Delta prefers connecting them at their superior hub in DTW.

The solution for United at SBN is to offer multi-class service to ORD on E170 aircraft on every flight and to offer reliable connecting service even when O'Hare has delays. Developing a market with an E170 flight to IAH may also help them out.

AA has been asked to come back into SBN and offer service to DFW and I think after they digest this merger a little they will be back an take the overflow gate at A8.

The whole situation at United at SBN is sad because in the glory days of offering B737's to ORD they were the number one carrier at SBN and North Central which was merged into Republic, Northwest and then Delta was number two. Then deregulation brought a number of carriers to SBN going to different hubs and also resulted in United downsizing aircraft in favor of RJ's which caused the O'Hare hub to get more crowded with the hub n spoke flying. With LCC's carriers such as G4 and F9 coming to SBN United just lost out. Delta was protected in all this with far superior hubs in ATL and DTW. With Delta planning to upguage airplanes on routes such as SBN-ATL United is going to loose out further.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12884 times:
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When Air Wisconsin was the United Express carrier at SBN they begged and pleaded with United to bring back flights to Denver with United Express to no avail. United's previous experience on the route with B727's should have been more than enough to fill two flights a day. Additionally United Express service deteriorated to a point to whenever O'Hare had bad weather resulting in delays United (The parent airline) would selectively cancel a lot of the Express flights SBN included where their passengers were driving to O'Hare or Midway or taking an early morning South Shore train to Chicago and catching the Blue or Orange lines to their respective airports. After years of this officials at SBN took action in applying for an SCASD grant to help start low cost service to another West connecting hub such as Denver. They worked with officials from Frontier for awhile and it started to pay off when they got awarded the grant. Frontier started service and it had it's ups and downs in the beginning but after five months it's finally paying off. It's reliable and is on big comfy full size A319 jets. One good thing Frontier may spur a mainline revival at SBN for other carriers on a few flights.

Now South Bend's first requested and Number One connecting market is the NYC area. United has been asked to start service to EWR and Delta has been asked to start service to LGA. United also has been asked to start additional service to IAH. Outside of having Newark flights on Notre Dame home football weekends nothing has come of service to Newark.
Delta probably doesn't have the slots to make the service to LGA viable.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12687 times:
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DL resumes their season third R/T SBN-MSP flight on June 10th. Also checked in the OAG, No slots are needed on weekends to EWR, so United is running an E170 SBN-ORD-EWR on June 8th and 15th. Could this be an experiment to see how many passengers they get out SBN desiring to go to NYC?

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days ago) and read 12665 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 1):
United's main problem at SBN in regard to Frontier is their pilot's scope clause in regards to Republic flying. In order to use an E170 flight to DEN which they would like to they can't because Frontier is part of Republic and Republic is the only ones flying the aircraft flying for them and their pilot's scope clause prevents the competition. Now when Skywest gets the E175's or when Frontier is cut loose from Republic it's a different story but SBN passengers are so used to the full sized A319 aircraft now it's probably to late. United would have to use A319's or B738's on the route which would involve a little ramp rebuild at their gates at SBN plus they would fly a lot of empty airplanes around on the route which wouldn't be good.

Actually, UA could use EV ERJ-145XRs, OO or YV CRJ-700s, or even OO hot-and-high CRJ-200s today to start SBN-DEN if they wanted to. All three of those aircraft can fly SBN-DEN without limitations from either a technical or scope perspective. The only United Express partners that can't be used are RP, S5, and YX because Republic owns all three.

FWA's April numbers are in:
https://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_04_2013(1).pdf
April 2013 numbers were flat compared to April 2012.

Market share numbers at FWA for April:
DL 40.06% (flat YTD)
Eagle 25.80% (down 12.19% YTD)
G4 22.91% (up 31.75% YTD thanks to PGD)
UA 11.09% (down 12.06% YTD)

Seems like most of the growth at FWA this year is coming from G4, which is a good thing. With the Airbuses coming online, could this mean the return of LAS?

[Edited 2013-05-29 17:25:10]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12627 times:
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Yes but those airplanes cannot compete with an Airbus for comfort. United has some more tricks up there sleeve though. This month they are running their morning E170 SBN-ORD flight on Saturday June 8th and 15th from SBN-ORD-EWR. I think they are seeing how bookings go so that they can run SBN-EWR nonstop with the E170. It is a long way on comfort from the Caravelle that used to run ORD-SBN-FWA-EWR as United 246 back in the day but it's nice nonetheless.

User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 12570 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 5):
It is a long way on comfort from the Caravelle that used to run ORD-SBN-FWA-EWR as United 246 back in the day but it's nice nonetheless.

for sure...is the SBN/FWA to NYC (EWR) market consistent and large enough o support a week day round trip on a 319?

IF timed fairly well, ie an early AM departure to EWR with say a 8:30 ish arrival , then an early evening return with the aircraft and crew RON...thoughts? better scheduling ideas if we all we in charge ?? LOL!


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12531 times:

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 6):
IF timed fairly well, ie an early AM departure to EWR with say a 8:30 ish arrival , then an early evening return with the aircraft and crew RON...thoughts? better scheduling ideas if we all we in charge ?? LOL!

I actually think two daily flights on FWA-EWR would work: one timed for O&D with a morning flight to EWR and an evening flight/RON from EWR (which would operate daily except Saturday), and another with afternoon timings both ways to tap into UA's vast EWR international connections (daily 7 days a week). Both flights could be operated on ERJ-145s, E170/175s, or (preferably due to economics) Q400s.

And personally, I think in addition to 2x daily EWR, there should also be 1x daily DEN flights from FWA on the ERJ-145XR or CRJ-700, operated daily and timed for connections both ways. This would significantly improve westbound connectivity and would also have more potential O&D than F9 has today on SBN-DEN.

However, I also think that FWA-EWR/DEN should replace, not supplement the current 3x daily OO CRJ-200s on FWA-ORD. Eagle can then have the short-hop FWA-ORD market to itself (it already does better than UA on the route), and an EWR/DEN mix would be better for international and westbound connections (respectively) than ORD ever will be for UA.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12499 times:
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Xposted from Fedex thread:

FEDEX will fly their last B727 flights on June 21st.

"Flight 1304 SBN-MEM departs 2343z that Friday and will likewise be replaced with a 757. Both flights are scheduled to arrive in MEM 14 minutes apart. It should be noted that 1304 originates at SBN and returns via FWA so that is an extra market that will share in this end of an era."


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12420 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 8):
FEDEX will fly their last B727 flights on June 21st.

"Flight 1304 SBN-MEM departs 2343z that Friday and will likewise be replaced with a 757. Both flights are scheduled to arrive in MEM 14 minutes apart. It should be noted that 1304 originates at SBN and returns via FWA so that is an extra market that will share in this end of an era."

This is quite a historic flight for both SBN and FWA.

And FWA has a long history with the old three-holer Boeing. Back in the day, UA, AA, and DL ran 727s (both Dash 100s and Dash 200s in the cases of AA and UA) from FWA (though not all at the same time), and Kitty Hawk was a very heavy 727 user in addition to FedEx and UPS. As UPS switched to the 757 at FWA long ago and retired their 727 fleet, I think FX1304 will be FWA's last scheduled 727 flight, period. We could still see a charter or two, but I don't think there are any scheduled 727 operators left in the US that use FWA.

I wonder if the local FedEx Express operations both at FWA and at their Fort Wayne sorting facilities will have a joint employee celebration before that final FWA-MEM 727 leg (and final 727 leg, period). That said, it's too bad that Hangar 40 at FWA, the oldest surviving hangar at FWA and FedEx's FWA home for decades, couldn't see this day after the fire last year and demolition in April. (FX now uses part of the former Kitty Hawk hub.)

[Edited 2013-06-01 11:32:38]

[Edited 2013-06-01 11:34:58]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12360 times:
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The B727 replaced the Caravelle on Flight 246 ORD-SBN-FWA-EWR and the return flight 447. They also used it on the DEN-SBN-FWA flight and the return trip. Piedmont also used B727's in SBN on SBN-DAY-LAX flights. I flew on one of the last flights on Delta HOU-ATL and we had to go-arouind after passing over the approach lights because an Airtran B717 ahead of us failed to clear the runway in time.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12315 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 10):
Piedmont also used B727's in SBN on SBN-DAY-LAX flights.

I'm not sure, but I think Piedmont used either the 737-200 or the F28 into FWA from DAY. After the DAY hub was closed by US in favor of PIT, I think FWA got F100s to PIT (AA also operated F100s into FWA into ORD alongside Eagle ATRs for a while) and B1900s to IND. Than US replaced the F100s on FWA-PIT with SAAB 340s, and then US left FWA (and SBN) after PIT was dehubbed.

That said, with the AA/US merger, I have a gut feeling that "new" AA might add PHL or CLT, maybe even as soon as crossfleeting begins, due to the strong local ties to both cities and Eagle's strong position at FWA. I could see Eagle boosting FWA-DFW to E175s or the like as well.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 12 hours ago) and read 12236 times:
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I can't talk about the AA/US merger and it's effect on SBN but I have a strong hunch that something is in the works between SBN airport officials an AA. Whether it pans out or not is anybody's guess. Also F9's schedule has been released to Jan 2014 and guess what, SBN's Denver service is still there even after the one year expiration of the SCASD grant. I guess when you are now taking 30% of the other carriers passengers and connecting them reliably thru DEN it makes sense to keep it going. I've checked some advance bookings on Seat Guru and SBN passengers seem to be very supportive of the service. Most flights several months out have 90 or more booked and one's close to flight time have 125 or so booked. That is a plus for SBN.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12141 times:

With the news of DL dehubbing MEM, here's my thought of the impact to all the DL Indiana airports.

-IND: The biggest airport in the state by far will probably will see MEM dropped entirely as it's all 50-seaters, unless RP wants to send in ERJ-145s from IND MX to MEM for the 10 or so 50-seater flights that will stay. We'll see in the next DL schedule load. And if IND-MEM is dropped, it won't hurt either IND or DL's operation there much, much like how AA's dropping of IND-STL didn't hurt IND as a whole or AA at IND.

-EVV: Saw MEM dropped last year around the same time as the hub cuts that also killed AMS. Of the four airports here, EVV is the most heavily reliant on DL by far (70% share as opposed to the 40% range at SBN and FWA or their 25% share at IND), and lacks any LCC (they famously gave G4 a stingy incentive package that led them to go to OWB instead).

-FWA: Saw MEM service in the early 90s on DC-9s, but it didn't last. More recently, FWA-MEM was rumored several years ago in part to feed the 9E MX base at FWA, with Mike Boyd bringing up the subject at a FWA-sponsored conference that I went to in 2010. But as soon as MEM saw its first big round of cuts, any possibility of FWA-MEM returning went out the window.

-SBN: I'm not sure if SBN ever saw MEM service - could anyone from SBN fill me in on this? That said, the possibility of SBN getting MEM went out the door just as fast as it did at FWA (if not faster, as FWA could have handled RONs at the 9E MX base).



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12107 times:
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SBN never had MEM service.

User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11989 times:
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SBN's numbers are in for April.

Key points: This is the month after Spring Break is over so traffic is down slightly.
United has cut their lost traffic numbers almost in half. They are also
using Shuttle America E170's more on busy days and for the summer.

Here is a link to the report: http://www.flysbn.com/documents/Apr2013StatReport.pdf


User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11953 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 11):
I'm not sure, but I think Piedmont used either the 737-200 or the F28 into FWA from DAY. After the DAY hub was closed by US in favor of PIT, I think FWA got F100s to PIT

I seem to remember them using 737-200/300s most of the time. Not sure if/when they used F28s.



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11953 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 13):
Saw MEM service in the early 90s on DC-9s,

Not sure why they didn't last. Hated to work them as they were FULL and we had to solicit volunteers most days. But this was in the days of the $99 R/T 30-day advance purchase fares, so they probably didn't make much, if any, money.



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11905 times:
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It would be interesting to see the May and June numbers for SBN. just checking on SeatGuru and also F9's website. F9's loads have been really strong. Today's SBN-DEN flight has no seats available and a sample return flight next Thursday night has only 5 empty seats. Hope this keeps up through the summer.

User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11885 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 16):
Not sure if/when they used F28s.

I have an entry in my log from Nov.23,1992 FWA-PIT on a F-28..Morning departure...IF that helps.

Entries from Oct. of 93 have the FWA-PIT as D9S equipment.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11803 times:

FWA's numbers for May are up:
http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_05_2013.pdf

-May 2013 pax up up 4.3% over May 2012 and 0.69% YTD
-May 2013 cargo up 1.24% over 2012 and 7.24% YTD
-All-airline load factors continue to be high at 84%
-FWA fares remain cheaper than SBN's on average, even with F9 at SBN (though IND still maintains a price edge over both)
-YTD market share is DL 40.25%, Eagle 26.26%, G4 22.26%, UA 11.12%, and charters 0.11%

Also of note at FWA: DL's second summer-seasonal MSP resumed this month, UA has restored some weekend frequencies to ORD, and G4 is also adding seasonal capacity boosts on some routes.

G4 will also be hosting a dodgeball tournament at the Three Rivers Festival in Fort Wayne to tie into their national "Dodge High Fares" ad campaign. (I wonder if this will affect Eagle's usual sponsorship of the Three Rivers Festival.) Is G4 planning a similar event in the South Bend/Mishawaka area?



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinecsturdiv From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 1478 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11801 times:

Last weekend I drove down to South Bend for a wedding, and while heading back to the northwest suburbs of Chicago and on the Indiana Toll Road (god I hate that highway) I noticed that F9 had some billboards on the westbound lanes advertising their SBN service. Not sure if it is from F9 or SBN or if it was aimed at people who might be heading to MDW/ORD from SBN area.


An American expat living and working in Australia
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11784 times:

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 21):
Last weekend I drove down to South Bend for a wedding, and while heading back to the northwest suburbs of Chicago and on the Indiana Toll Road (god I hate that highway) I noticed that F9 had some billboards on the westbound lanes advertising their SBN service. Not sure if it is from F9 or SBN or if it was aimed at people who might be heading to MDW/ORD from SBN area.

It's probably aimed at people in SBN and also northwest Indiana heading to ORD or MDW. And it's nothing new for an Indiana airport.

Over a decade ago, FWA put up billboards on I-69 near Anderson on the drive home from IND encouraging travelers to "save precious time" and choose FWA on their next trip. And over the past several years, IND has often put up billboards near CVG and SDF. Yes, I know that IND is an Indiana airport while CVG and SDF aren't, but it was IND that put up the ads. (Still boggles my mind why IND chose to advertise in WN-heavy SDF and not someplace like FWA with G4, but no network LCC.)



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11730 times:
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G4 sponsored some puck shooting contests between periods at Notre Dame hockey games and similar events in the SBN area. Happy to see that the F9 billboards were put up along the Toll Road. Apparently it has been working cause F9 loads have been up these past two months.

User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11648 times:
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The F9 billboards (These are put up by the airport) on the Indiana Toll Road may be working. Checking on SeatGuru.com tomorrows Frontier flight SBN-DEN minus the exit row has only 1 empty seat for sale. I put in a sample return flight this Thursday from Denver and there are only 20 seats left and those will probably be gone by flight time. Now the other guys cancelled their early morning connecting flight to ORD tomorrow. Maybe some off those rebooked with F9.

25 Post contains links FWAERJ : The G4 "Dodge High Fares" charity dodgeball tournament that's going to be held at the Three Rivers Festival in FWA also has an SBN counterpart. http:/
26 Post contains links flyinryan99 : Looks like FWA picked up 5 diversions this afternoon from DTW. Most notably a DL 737-800 from LAX http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...6/history/201
27 Post contains images exFWAOONW : I remember "fun" nights like that.
28 capitalflyer : Likely it was included in the SCASD grant that brought service to SBN in the first place. I believe then it would be SBN, but it is using money alrea
29 capitalflyer : Yeah but they are still down 15ish%. I just realized something, when did CLE service end? That may partially explain the crappy numbers for UA if thi
30 freakyrat : I think CLE service ended last year sometime. It would be interesting to see F9's numbers these past two months as they been flying full airplanes sin
31 FWAERJ : IIRC, SBN-CLE ended last September. FWA-CLE ended in late 2009 as part of broader cutbacks at CO. SBN-CLE had 28% loads toward the end. FWA-CLE wasn'
32 flyboy80 : Sorry to stray off topic for a moment, but I recently relocated to indianapolis, and was hoping there might be a good place to watch takeoffs and land
33 capitalflyer : Looking at April, their load factor was around 75%. March was 87%, 70% in February, and 71% in January. About average for SBN (except March). Is 75%
34 freakyrat : F9's average load factor for SBN has now been around 81% according to airport management. The winter was slow and April was down a bit because it was
35 freakyrat : I just did a check on seat availability for July for F9 SBN-DEN putting in various days. Around the July 4th holiday they are going out with an averag
36 FWAERJ : Sounds a lot like FWA in general. Their two weakest months are right after the holidays: January and February. Traffic picks up big in March and stay
37 Post contains links FWAERJ : One of our local papers had a great article today on FWA and business travel. http://www.fortwayne.com/apps/pbcs.d...20130708/BIZ/320122399/1017/TOPBI
38 Tan Flyr : as if there are a lot of "reasonable" choices??? Come on! Obviously one would think that DEN could accommodate a daily R/T, like UA had decades ago.
39 FWAERJ : You forgot FWA-IAD. There is a lot of business between FWA and DC/NoVA (more than NYC), UA has a huge hub there, and there's no congestion at IAD lik
40 Tan Flyr : Yup..I sure did...and learned from you that the market there is strong for FWA. Gracias!
41 Post contains links freakyrat : SBN's May Traffic is in folks: http://www.flysbn.com/documents/May2013StatReport.pdf Frontier had a huge month at SBN with 2,032 Enplanements for an a
42 FWAERJ : Similar story at FWA regarding PGD. G4 grew their market share from 17% to 22% after PGD was introduced and Allegiant's pax numbers are up 33% YTD. I
43 freakyrat : Here is SBN's market share per Airline: Enplanements: Delta 39.52% Allegiant 32.43% United 20.93% Frontier 7.11% Deplanements: Delta 39.10% Allegiant
44 toltommy : Wow looks like DL got tired of the bickering between the TOL FBOs. TOL can't even catch the diversions now.
45 Post contains links FWAERJ : FWA's YTD market share per airline for January-May 2013 (unlike SBN, these are combined enplanements and deplanements): Delta 40.25% (flat compared to
46 7e72004 : Frontier just announced that SBN on September 9. I thought the loads were were pretty good.
47 Tan Flyr : Announced what? you must have skipped a part!
48 freakyrat : Loads were pretty good on SBN-DEN as of March but the airline couldn't sustain its service during the winter months by subsidizing it with summer load
49 Post contains links FWAERJ : FWA is getting a new fuel farm... and is changing parking vendors after 45 years. Goodbye Standard Parking, hello Republic Parking Systems. http://www
50 capitalflyer : Their costs must have been crazy high if they weren't able to turn a profit with 75% load factor. I assume the SCASD grant was 1 year in duration con
51 freakyrat : Frontier had been operating an average of 16 flights a month SBN-DEN. last month they carried an average of 120 passengers out of SBN and 134 into SBN
52 Post contains links FWAERJ : Another positive month for FWA in June: http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_06_2013.pdf Pax count up 7.13% YOY and 1.89% YTD (combined enplanem
53 Post contains links freakyrat : The Motley Fool's have an article today about Republic Airways Corporation, parent of Frontier. The problem at SBN was not that Frontier was not filli
54 FWAERJ : Sounds like now's the time for UA and FWA to pounce on SBN and F9 by launching daily service on FWA-DEN (which also happens to have more O&D than
55 FWAERJ : I've been thinking about how DL's forthcoming phaseout of most 50-seat flying and replacement with larger jets, and how it will affect FWA. Today's DL
56 Indy : As noted in its own thread, IND is getting MBJ and NAS service starting in December. It looks as if things might finally be turning around for IND. Th
57 ouboy79 : Why would UA pounce on SBN via FWA when they serve SBN? I really don't get the mentality that drives people to think every regional airport is at war
58 FWAERJ : I did factor in the CR2s on some of the DTW flights. Ideally, the two peak RON departures/arrivals from DTW would be to bring CR9s in for MX and the
59 Post contains links LoneStarMike : IND has posted their stats for May and June today. link Year-to-date traffic through June stands at 3,596,868 - down 1.8% from the same period in 2012
60 Indy : They have not had much success stopping the bleeding. Think back to their overall lack of success since the BAA gave up management of the airport. Th
61 Post contains images FWAERJ : G4 has done FWA-MYR for the last four years just fine. Given that FWA is a 570K pax/year (inbound and outbound) airport and IND is over 7 million, th
62 LoneStarMike : Well if the fees for the airlines have gone up, I can kind of understand why IND might not want to to have that remote parking lot on land not owned
63 COSPN : How much did this "gas station" cost the Airport pax ??
64 FWAERJ : Not sure, but it was probably baked into the IAA's annual budget for IND. Gas stations are cheap to build anyway, and if it's anything like the DFW M
65 Indy : The IAA wasted large sums of money in legal fees fighting competition. It was completely ridiculous and they had zero chance of winning. Not only did
66 bjorn14 : What would be SBN and FWA prefered NYC airport?
67 FWAERJ : For SBN, it would be LGA because of the Notre Dame alums and business ties. For FWA, it would be EWR because the limited NYC O&D can be supplemen
68 capitalflyer : FWA has submitted a SCASD grant with $2 million in local money backup for service to....PHL! The application says they are working with AA. Seems pres
69 Post contains images FWAERJ : I did. And for three big reasons: the O&D from companies like Wells Fargo and Lincoln Financial, the enhancements to East Coast connections, and
70 exFWAOONW : I don't see FWACLT starting anytime soon. DL already provides connections to that part of the world and G4 has a non-stop nearby. US had the opportuni
71 apfpilot : Couldn't agree more. With the new parking rates it doesn't even make sense for me to drive over anymore from Fishers. I just take a shared ride from
72 FWAERJ : Your logic confuses me. Didn't IND lower rates at some of their parking spaces as part of the parking revamp? Speaking of airport parking, I'll be cu
73 FWAERJ : US left a bunch of small Midwestern markets completely when PIT was dehubbed. It got to the point where they probably didn't even want to consider sw
74 exFWAOONW : DTW is East of FWA (If you want to get really pedantic about it. Most consider it North) and there was a lot of connecting West Coast traffic. My poi
75 FWAERJ : DTW is actually slightly northeast of FWA, but close enough to FWA in flight time that going west from DTW is no big deal. Same thing for FWA-ORD and
76 bjorn14 : Does anyone see MIE, BMG, OKK or LAF getting service soon, if so to where? Would SBNers fly to MDW/GYY to make a cx?
77 jetskipper : People from South Bend usually drive or take the bus to Midway. There used to be service between SBN and MDW on Chicago Express, but that faded after
78 FWAERJ : Only LAF (as the terminal is still there and can be upgraded for scheduled service cheaply), and if so, only G4 to SFB twice a week at first, with PI
79 apfpilot : Couple of interesting movements and IND including a UA 744 inbound right now from Frankfurt. I'm guessing troop charter? Also looks like Miami Air and
80 Post contains links freakyrat : SBN's June Traffic figures are in and guess what folks F9 was operating very full flights. SBN-DEN was operating at a 98% load factor with an average
81 steeler83 : Man, seeing posts like these makes me realize just how large US was at PIT, and I guess I can see how this model used to work for US. The midwest was
82 exFWAOONW : for the DC9 series the IATA codes tanslate into: DC9 = DC9-10 (the original and smallest) NW's sat 78 D9S = DC9-30 the most popular NW's sat 100 D94
83 capitalflyer : Boffo month for SBN. Huge pax numbers. F9 brought in some new ones. UA went the wrong way. How do you lose 10% of your pax when airport is up so much
84 steeler83 : I wonder if the "S" in D9S meant "stretch" since it was, more or less, a stretch of the initial variant... Nice info on the DC9. My first flight ever
85 FWAERJ : Though IND was a focus city for NW from around 2004 until the DL/NW merger and Great Recession, the red tail never had a mainline crew or equipment b
86 Post contains links freakyrat : Allegiant is substituting an A319 for tonights flight 126 from IWA to SBN it is landing now and should be at the gate. http://flightaware.com/live/fli
87 Post contains images freakyrat : Here is something big happening right now in South Bend from Allegiant. This is tonight's flight 126 from Phoenix Mesa.
88 ouboy79 : It did. Much like the original code for the 727-200 was 72S and the 737-200 was also 73S. It has been relatively recent that the codes were changed.
89 freakyrat : The use of the Allegiant A319 on the SBN-AZA run is permanent.
90 FWAERJ : Not surprised - the A319 is a far better aircraft for the mission than the MD-80. 40% lower fuel burn, only 4 fewer seats, infinitely better hot/high
91 freakyrat : On a 2 hr 10 min flight from SBN-PHX the A319 saves 1,000 per hour on fuel costs.
92 FWAERJ : That is amazing. And it further confirms my thought that if G4 reintroduces FWA-AZA or FWA-LAS on Tuesday, they will use the A319 because of the fuel
93 bjorn14 : a 1,000 what?
94 FWAERJ : He probably means that using the A319 instead of the MD-80 on SBN-AZA saves G4 $1,000 USD per hour on fuel costs. Oh, and SBN-AZA is a 3 hr 20 min fl
95 freakyrat : I was basing fuel costs on what American said that their A319 would save over and MD80. Sorry I forgot to figure the time zones in there. American sai
96 Post contains links FWAERJ : Some good news for FWA before their big announcement tomorrow: Total enplaned/deplaned pax for July 2013 were up 8.57% over July 2012 and FWA pax volu
97 freakyrat : SBN's traffic was up 18% in JUne with help from Frontier and Allegiant. Serving a total of 60,987 passengers total. I just wonder if we can keep if up
98 FWAERJ : The only other city I can see G4 serving from SBN in their current route network is FLL, which they tried before. Growth will have to come from UA, D
99 cleared2land : Both SBN and FWA are doing well. SBN is up 13% on the year and 18% on the month. Hopefully the trend continues post-F9. It has been way too long sinc
100 freakyrat : I have a sense F9 will be back in SBN when some of their financials and ownership issues change.
101 cleared2land : I think SBN has started to prove they can put people on airplanes to DEN. The problem, as I see it, is somewhat to do with how F9 priced the tickets,
102 freakyrat : Quoting cleared2land reply 101 "I think SBN has started to prove they can put people on airplanes to DEN. The problem, as I see it, is somewhat to do
103 FWAERJ : One overlooked fact about G4's resumed FWA-AZA service: It will be flown on an A319 (though an MD-80 may be substituted if needed), making it the firs
104 Post contains images cleared2land : ....C'mon G4.....give us something new at SBN.....you have been too quiet lately. P.S. Thanks for thanks for the Airbus
105 cleared2land : Anyone have the latest at EVV? Anything new down there?
106 Post contains images FWAERJ : Same here at FWA. I'm welcoming our first regularly scheduled pax A319 (or any Airbus) from FWA-AZA with open arms, not to mention regularly schedule
107 widget1580 : For any SBN spotters, on October 20, 2013 SBN will have quite the line up for the ND vs. USC game on the 19th. I can't imagine the disaster that it wi
108 Post contains images freakyrat : Quoting widget1580 reply 107 "For any SBN spotters, on October 20, 2013 SBN will have quite the line up for the ND vs. USC game on the 19th. I can't i
109 Post contains images freakyrat : Here is a picture of Gate A3 at SBN set up at a height for Airbuses. The ramp is also heavy concrete in this area and has all the DGS ground support e
110 FWAERJ : So far, the response to the reintroduction of FWA-AZA has been pretty darn good... looking on FWA's Facebook page, it seemed like the introductory far
111 Tan Flyr : I would hope so..the best bet is an E75 as the 319 assignments have been doled out for the first year or so of deliveries. Upgrading the DFW equipmen
112 Indy : First IND-LAX flight with AA goes out today. Looks like a very light load. It seems to pick up later in the week. Do you guys think this flight will l
113 jetskipper : It looks like the Oklahoma weekend on September 28th will be a great spotters weekend as well with 2 MD-88s and 2 DC-9s scheduled on Saturday includi
114 ouboy79 : I wouldn't hold your breath for mainline. The point that Eagle has the ground equipment to handle an Airbus isn't going to push mainline AA to throw
115 freakyrat : The ND-Oklahoma Weekend will also see MD88's and DC9-50 and CRJ900's from SBN to ATL
116 FWAERJ : I think IND-LAX will last with AA's popularity on both sides of the route (which will only get much stronger on the IND side with the US merger, shou
117 Post contains links and images ATAIndy : I grabbed a shot of AA 1338 coming in from LAX this evening. N934NN in the new paint was running it. This flight finally brings back regularly schedu
118 Indy : Good pic. So I see IND did the water cannon salute for the first departure. Isn't that a bit excessive for a domestic flight? Especially when it isn'
119 FWAERJ : I agree - DL already flies IND-LAX, and many other airlines including TW, FL, WN, TZ, US, and NW have flown the route nonstop over the years. TW even
120 Post contains links indywa : UA ... IND-SFO? Looks like it's gonna happen http://www.ibj.com/united-planning-d...-indianapolis/PARAMS/article/43241
121 FWAERJ : IND management has been wanting this route for eons. There was even an article on the website for Caldwell VanRiper, IND's ad agency, about the need
122 Post contains images ATAIndy : I kind of thought it was excessive. Will we see one again when the 1x weekly Montego Bay and Nassau services start in December? I'm curious to know t
123 Jetskipper : For you SBN spotters, today you can expect a DL DC-9 upgrade along with a Miami Air 737-800 flying Temple back to PHL.
124 Post contains links freakyrat : SBN's numbers are out for July. http://www.flysbn.com/documents/Jul2013StatReport.pdf Pay close attention to the load factor figures in the footnote e
125 boilerla : I really don't think they were. I could find flights SBN-LAX via DEN on F9 for $50-100 cheaper than UA and DL. On top of that F9 is flying an A319 ov
126 freakyrat : That is where the problem lies with their planning dept. They did not need to price the flights like they did. At 98.5 load factor that is 135 passeng
127 cleared2land : Sad thing here is that the math is easy. They knew all along what the end-result would be. They have this down to a science.
128 freakyrat : Quoting cleared to land Reply 127 "Sad thing here is that the math is easy. They knew all along what the end-result would be. They have this down to a
129 capitalflyer : Well well well, look who actually increased their pax load, UA!! Surprised that DL was down so much YOY. It will be interesting to see how everything
130 freakyrat : All airlines will be up this month with Notre Dame Football just starting. On the shakeout United is already beginning to move to 70 seaters to ORD to
131 FWAERJ : Per the FWA e-newsletter, mobile boarding passes are (finally!) available at FWA. They are available to DL, UA, and G4 pax right now, with Eagle in th
132 Indy : So we have AA adding IND-LAX and UA adding IND-SFO. I wonder if DL will be next with IND-SEA. That route makes sense for the same reasons LAX and SFO
133 FWAERJ : Don't forget about AS with their very deep DL codeshare at SEA and Midwest-SEA growth.
134 Indy : I would think DL would be a better match. They already have a large customer base here and with the number of flights they currently operate it would
135 Post contains links LoneStarMike : IND July 2013 stats now posted. Indianapolis International Airport Airline Activity Summary For Month Ending July 2013 Total July traffic was 651,445
136 Post contains links jetskipper : Great news for SBN, it looks like Skywest is adding a SBN maintenance facility complete with engine and powerplant shop. http://www.southbendtribune.c
137 FWAERJ : Between AAR at IND, 9E at FWA, and OO at SBN, it seems like Indiana is getting a lot of MX facilities. Will the SkyWest SBN MX facility be for OO onl
138 freakyrat : Quoting FWAERJ Reply137 "Will the SkyWest SBN MX facility be for OO only or EV as well?" Who knows and is this a prelude to Skywest operating larger j
139 Indy : Now since it appears money is being put up for new IND service (SFO as an example -- I think a $2 mil guarantee against revenue) does anyone think Ind
140 Post contains links FWAERJ : From the "No Surprise Here" department: FWA is talking with DL about the possibility of larger aircraft. http://www.jg.net/article/20130913/BIZ/309139
141 FWAERJ : The IAA, City of Indianapolis, and local business leaders, yes. State of Indiana, no - I think some other airports, FWA in particular, would object t
142 Post contains links Indy : It goes beyond Indianapolis. First off Governor Pence would not be involved if it were Indianapolis only. Also see this quote from the Indy Star: "Th
143 bjorn14 : Now if they can only get back that ZW mx facility @ EKI BTW, where does IU and Purdue's football teams fly out of and what frames do they use'?
144 FWAERJ : Purdue typically uses LAF and Miami Air. That said, I would love to see G4 run an LAF-SFB flight.
145 jetskipper : IU flies out of BMG and charters a United 737-800.
146 FWAERJ : ZW had an MX facility at FWA, too. FWA was a big 146 and ATP base for ZW, while EKI handled the smaller planes. The FWA Air Whisky hangar was later u
147 Post contains links FWAERJ : FWA numbers for August are in: http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_08_2013(1).pdf The momentum continues, with a healthy 5.96% improvement over
148 freakyrat : Funny I just bought a fare on United to SBN from DFW on July 31st for travel mid November on a non Notre Dame Football weekend for 321.60 R/T so I gue
149 FWAERJ : I bet that most of the markets where SBN was/is cheaper than FWA were: 1) markets that F9 flew to from SBN, including connections via DEN (DFW is one
150 jetskipper : For you SBN spotters. It looks like there is a UA 757-300 and a DL 757-200 scheduled to arrive from OKC within :30 of each other this afternoon . It a
151 jetskipper : As I said, great spotting day in South Bend. I don't know if this is a record, but SBN had 5 757s on the ground at the same time: 1 FX 757-200 1 UP 75
152 freakyrat : Yeah SBN is like a real airport including a Delta CRJ7 flight from LGA tonight and the rest of the heavy metal. It is a record for B757's at SBN. This
153 Post contains images freakyrat : Here is Sun Country this morning courtesy of SBN.
154 FWAERJ : As stated in the SCASD thread, FWA just got a SCASD grant for an East Coast hub. The grant is for $400,000, and local businesses & officials are m
155 jetskipper : I guess this is the now or never moment. If an airline doesn't jump on an East Coast route from $400,000, they never will. I agree, UA (EWR or IAD),
156 FWAERJ : Actually, it's even more: $600,000 in DOT money plus $2 million in local money for a total of $2.6 million in incentives. And I agree: we'll probably
157 Post contains links FWAERJ : FWA officially changed parking vendors from Standard Parking to Republic Parking System (SBN's longtime vendor) today. http://fwairport.com/news/repub
158 Post contains links FWAERJ : Just in time for colder weather, FWA pax can now schedule parking shuttle pickups online, which is a big help for departing flights (FWA's shuttles ar
159 capitalflyer : What were they doing there? Special fan charter from OKC?
160 jetskipper : I was looking at the United Airlines route map today and noticed that SBN-EWR is shown as seasonal service. Is this just the game weekend added flight
161 freakyrat : THe Sun Country charter in SBN was a Harrah's Casino Charter to Laughlin/Bullhead City. They returned on Monday. THE OU fan charters were 2 Delta B752
162 freakyrat : Quoting jetskipper reply160 "I was looking at the United Airlines route map today and noticed that SBN-EWR is shown as seasonal service. Is this just
163 FWAERJ : If UA could squeeze out a slot, I could see UA making SBN-EWR year round thanks to the forthcoming OO SBN MX base. But I see FWA getting EWR (or IAD)
164 freakyrat : OO has already begun ferrying CRJ's to SBN for maintenance. They have had several SBN-MKE flights show up on Flightaware.
165 FWAERJ : What hangar is OO using at SBN? They must be using an existing hangar to start operations this fast - the old 9E hangar perhaps? I know that 9E's FWA
166 freakyrat : Most likely OO is using the old 9E hangar (The old original Stockert Aviation Hangar) but the airport won't give out that information.
167 Post contains links FWAERJ : More from FWA on FWA's recent SCASD grant: http://fwairport.com/news/airport-awarded-grant-for-new-flight Although the fact that it's for an East Coas
168 Post contains links freakyrat : Check out SBN's stats for AUG. http://www.flysbn.com/documents/CombinedStatsAug2013.pdf F9 operated 17 flights in and out with 97% LF going out and 18
169 jetskipper : Looks like Delta is using MD-90s on equipment upgrades from MSP, DTW and ATL to SBN this weekend. First time that I can recall an MD-90 flying into SB
170 FWAERJ : Some FWA updates... Apparently, the SCASD grant that FWA got isn't just for PHL - as I suspected, a posting from the airport on the FWA Facebook page
171 Post contains links FWAERJ : FWA's numbers for September are in: http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_09_2013.pdf -Total pax (enplaned and deplaned) up 5.23% vs. Sep/2012 an
172 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Also - IND's stats for August have been posted. IND Airline Activity Report August 2013 Passenger totals for August were 600,127 - down 2.6% from Augu
173 FWAERJ : Since the Indy metro area is booming and IND isn't, I suspect a lot of the traffic declines at IND are the result of lower fares at CVG and more LCC
174 Indy : Looking at data from the DOT I feel confident that isn't the case. As of 1Q 2013 CVG was still the 2nd most expensive airport for originating passeng
175 FWAERJ : I bet that folks in Indy like you are thinking that BAA Indianapolis should have never gave up control of IND. Fares within $3 of ORD? Ouch - unlike
176 exFWAOONW : That idea is firmly entrenched in the minds of today's fliers because their grandparents told them this.
177 Indy : Has anyone heard anything about UA planning IND-LAX in 2014? Someone have posted it twice on Wikipedia saying it was a planned route. I've reverted th
178 jetskipper : Wow, Notre Dame chartered a Delta MD-88 to fly to hockey team from South Bend to Duluth today, should come back late on Saturday about the same time t
179 freakyrat : The November OAG is out and with the holidays and the ND football schedule some flights and aircraft types have been juggled around. Allegiant is movi
180 FWAERJ : Is FWA-SFB or FWA-PIE going A320 as well? I knew all along (thanks to FWA management at the launch press conference) that G4 would use the A319 on FW
181 freakyrat : Allegiant just doesn't have enough A319's in their fleet to cover both routes and FWA's stage length is longer. FWA-SFB and FWA-PIE remain MD80's
182 freakyrat : Allegiant is showing 6 A320's on property (based at SFB) and 3 A319's (Based at IWA) The A320 is presently flying from Orlando Sanford or will be sche
183 Post contains links FWAERJ : As planned, G4 resumed FWA-AZA today - and yes, the first flight was on an A319. FWA's Facebook page has full coverage: http://www.facebook.com/flyfor
184 Post contains links freakyrat : SBN's numbers are in for September. http://www.flysbn.com/documents/Sep2013StatReport.pdf I added up the totals for F9. While they served SBN they car
185 Indy : F9 is launching IND-TTN service starting April 29. I checked the route and you can get dirt cheap round trip tickets. Like less than $100 r/t includin
186 Post contains links FWAERJ : Three milestones at FWA this year from the three largest legacy carriers in the US. People may want a network LCC at FWA or for G4 to resume FWA-LAS s
187 jetskipper : Based on the November 15th OAG update it looks like Allegiant's SBN-SFB service will go daily starting in June and go twice a day one day of the week
188 freakyrat : And most likely SBN-SFB will be on the A320.
189 FWAERJ : I'd take anything that OAG publishes on G4 with a grain of salt. As I have said many times before, G4 does not publish its schedules to third parties
190 exFWAOONW : Nice summary. I would add that United or Uinited Express, through the years, had non-stop service to ORD, DEN, CLE, IAD, and NYC (though it was Frida
191 Tan Flyr : Hmm..I think you have a mix up..as a resident of Ft. Wayne in the late 70's and early 80's it was more of 84 or 85 when AA cane to town. It certainly
192 Post contains links LoneStarMike : Yeah, that press release that FWA issued seems wrong to me with regards to AA. I went over to departed flights.com and looked at old route maps and t
193 FWAERJ : With the AA/US merger saga almost over, here's how I see this affecting Indiana airports. In order from highest to lowest enplanements: -IND: AA serve
194 exFWAOONW : What happened to the third FWA-DFW or was that just summer only?
195 Tan Flyr : Finally had a chance to check departed flight..the Feb15, 1985 edition show 3 ORD 72S round trips on AA. Tho I am virtually 100 percent certain that I
196 FWAERJ : Hasn't operated since winter 2011 - the 3rd FWA-DFW was a winter-only route and FWA-DFW has been at 2x daily from March 2011 onward. It was replaced
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