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Indiana Aviation: Part 9  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4368 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12880 times:
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Due to length, part eight was archived. Previous thread: Indiana Aviation: Part 8 (by A340Spotter Nov 13 2012 in Civil Aviation)


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
196 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12799 times:
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I'm sure SBN's March Traffic is skewed a little by Spring Break in the case of Allegiant but even they were up in offering their usual daily service to SFB. The problem with United at SBN is their high fares and lousy connecting service westbound at ORD. Delta is ground handling Frontier at SBN and they are actually happy that Frontier is in SBN. Traffic must be good westbound because they already reinstated their morning flight to MSP.

United's main problem at SBN in regard to Frontier is their pilot's scope clause in regards to Republic flying. In order to use an E170 flight to DEN which they would like to they can't because Frontier is part of Republic and Republic is the only ones flying the aircraft flying for them and their pilot's scope clause prevents the competition. Now when Skywest gets the E175's or when Frontier is cut loose from Republic it's a different story but SBN passengers are so used to the full sized A319 aircraft now it's probably to late. United would have to use A319's or B738's on the route which would involve a little ramp rebuild at their gates at SBN plus they would fly a lot of empty airplanes around on the route which wouldn't be good.

United and Delta have been approached about NYC service but even though it is SBN's number one business market, it's only good for the most about 50 seats a day and Delta prefers connecting them at their superior hub in DTW.

The solution for United at SBN is to offer multi-class service to ORD on E170 aircraft on every flight and to offer reliable connecting service even when O'Hare has delays. Developing a market with an E170 flight to IAH may also help them out.

AA has been asked to come back into SBN and offer service to DFW and I think after they digest this merger a little they will be back an take the overflow gate at A8.

The whole situation at United at SBN is sad because in the glory days of offering B737's to ORD they were the number one carrier at SBN and North Central which was merged into Republic, Northwest and then Delta was number two. Then deregulation brought a number of carriers to SBN going to different hubs and also resulted in United downsizing aircraft in favor of RJ's which caused the O'Hare hub to get more crowded with the hub n spoke flying. With LCC's carriers such as G4 and F9 coming to SBN United just lost out. Delta was protected in all this with far superior hubs in ATL and DTW. With Delta planning to upguage airplanes on routes such as SBN-ATL United is going to loose out further.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12698 times:
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When Air Wisconsin was the United Express carrier at SBN they begged and pleaded with United to bring back flights to Denver with United Express to no avail. United's previous experience on the route with B727's should have been more than enough to fill two flights a day. Additionally United Express service deteriorated to a point to whenever O'Hare had bad weather resulting in delays United (The parent airline) would selectively cancel a lot of the Express flights SBN included where their passengers were driving to O'Hare or Midway or taking an early morning South Shore train to Chicago and catching the Blue or Orange lines to their respective airports. After years of this officials at SBN took action in applying for an SCASD grant to help start low cost service to another West connecting hub such as Denver. They worked with officials from Frontier for awhile and it started to pay off when they got awarded the grant. Frontier started service and it had it's ups and downs in the beginning but after five months it's finally paying off. It's reliable and is on big comfy full size A319 jets. One good thing Frontier may spur a mainline revival at SBN for other carriers on a few flights.

Now South Bend's first requested and Number One connecting market is the NYC area. United has been asked to start service to EWR and Delta has been asked to start service to LGA. United also has been asked to start additional service to IAH. Outside of having Newark flights on Notre Dame home football weekends nothing has come of service to Newark.
Delta probably doesn't have the slots to make the service to LGA viable.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12501 times:
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DL resumes their season third R/T SBN-MSP flight on June 10th. Also checked in the OAG, No slots are needed on weekends to EWR, so United is running an E170 SBN-ORD-EWR on June 8th and 15th. Could this be an experiment to see how many passengers they get out SBN desiring to go to NYC?

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12479 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 1):
United's main problem at SBN in regard to Frontier is their pilot's scope clause in regards to Republic flying. In order to use an E170 flight to DEN which they would like to they can't because Frontier is part of Republic and Republic is the only ones flying the aircraft flying for them and their pilot's scope clause prevents the competition. Now when Skywest gets the E175's or when Frontier is cut loose from Republic it's a different story but SBN passengers are so used to the full sized A319 aircraft now it's probably to late. United would have to use A319's or B738's on the route which would involve a little ramp rebuild at their gates at SBN plus they would fly a lot of empty airplanes around on the route which wouldn't be good.

Actually, UA could use EV ERJ-145XRs, OO or YV CRJ-700s, or even OO hot-and-high CRJ-200s today to start SBN-DEN if they wanted to. All three of those aircraft can fly SBN-DEN without limitations from either a technical or scope perspective. The only United Express partners that can't be used are RP, S5, and YX because Republic owns all three.

FWA's April numbers are in:
https://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_04_2013(1).pdf
April 2013 numbers were flat compared to April 2012.

Market share numbers at FWA for April:
DL 40.06% (flat YTD)
Eagle 25.80% (down 12.19% YTD)
G4 22.91% (up 31.75% YTD thanks to PGD)
UA 11.09% (down 12.06% YTD)

Seems like most of the growth at FWA this year is coming from G4, which is a good thing. With the Airbuses coming online, could this mean the return of LAS?

[Edited 2013-05-29 17:25:10]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12441 times:
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Yes but those airplanes cannot compete with an Airbus for comfort. United has some more tricks up there sleeve though. This month they are running their morning E170 SBN-ORD flight on Saturday June 8th and 15th from SBN-ORD-EWR. I think they are seeing how bookings go so that they can run SBN-EWR nonstop with the E170. It is a long way on comfort from the Caravelle that used to run ORD-SBN-FWA-EWR as United 246 back in the day but it's nice nonetheless.

User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12384 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 5):
It is a long way on comfort from the Caravelle that used to run ORD-SBN-FWA-EWR as United 246 back in the day but it's nice nonetheless.

for sure...is the SBN/FWA to NYC (EWR) market consistent and large enough o support a week day round trip on a 319?

IF timed fairly well, ie an early AM departure to EWR with say a 8:30 ish arrival , then an early evening return with the aircraft and crew RON...thoughts? better scheduling ideas if we all we in charge ?? LOL!


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 12345 times:

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 6):
IF timed fairly well, ie an early AM departure to EWR with say a 8:30 ish arrival , then an early evening return with the aircraft and crew RON...thoughts? better scheduling ideas if we all we in charge ?? LOL!

I actually think two daily flights on FWA-EWR would work: one timed for O&D with a morning flight to EWR and an evening flight/RON from EWR (which would operate daily except Saturday), and another with afternoon timings both ways to tap into UA's vast EWR international connections (daily 7 days a week). Both flights could be operated on ERJ-145s, E170/175s, or (preferably due to economics) Q400s.

And personally, I think in addition to 2x daily EWR, there should also be 1x daily DEN flights from FWA on the ERJ-145XR or CRJ-700, operated daily and timed for connections both ways. This would significantly improve westbound connectivity and would also have more potential O&D than F9 has today on SBN-DEN.

However, I also think that FWA-EWR/DEN should replace, not supplement the current 3x daily OO CRJ-200s on FWA-ORD. Eagle can then have the short-hop FWA-ORD market to itself (it already does better than UA on the route), and an EWR/DEN mix would be better for international and westbound connections (respectively) than ORD ever will be for UA.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 12313 times:
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Xposted from Fedex thread:

FEDEX will fly their last B727 flights on June 21st.

"Flight 1304 SBN-MEM departs 2343z that Friday and will likewise be replaced with a 757. Both flights are scheduled to arrive in MEM 14 minutes apart. It should be noted that 1304 originates at SBN and returns via FWA so that is an extra market that will share in this end of an era."


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12234 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 8):
FEDEX will fly their last B727 flights on June 21st.

"Flight 1304 SBN-MEM departs 2343z that Friday and will likewise be replaced with a 757. Both flights are scheduled to arrive in MEM 14 minutes apart. It should be noted that 1304 originates at SBN and returns via FWA so that is an extra market that will share in this end of an era."

This is quite a historic flight for both SBN and FWA.

And FWA has a long history with the old three-holer Boeing. Back in the day, UA, AA, and DL ran 727s (both Dash 100s and Dash 200s in the cases of AA and UA) from FWA (though not all at the same time), and Kitty Hawk was a very heavy 727 user in addition to FedEx and UPS. As UPS switched to the 757 at FWA long ago and retired their 727 fleet, I think FX1304 will be FWA's last scheduled 727 flight, period. We could still see a charter or two, but I don't think there are any scheduled 727 operators left in the US that use FWA.

I wonder if the local FedEx Express operations both at FWA and at their Fort Wayne sorting facilities will have a joint employee celebration before that final FWA-MEM 727 leg (and final 727 leg, period). That said, it's too bad that Hangar 40 at FWA, the oldest surviving hangar at FWA and FedEx's FWA home for decades, couldn't see this day after the fire last year and demolition in April. (FX now uses part of the former Kitty Hawk hub.)

[Edited 2013-06-01 11:32:38]

[Edited 2013-06-01 11:34:58]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12174 times:
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The B727 replaced the Caravelle on Flight 246 ORD-SBN-FWA-EWR and the return flight 447. They also used it on the DEN-SBN-FWA flight and the return trip. Piedmont also used B727's in SBN on SBN-DAY-LAX flights. I flew on one of the last flights on Delta HOU-ATL and we had to go-arouind after passing over the approach lights because an Airtran B717 ahead of us failed to clear the runway in time.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12129 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 10):
Piedmont also used B727's in SBN on SBN-DAY-LAX flights.

I'm not sure, but I think Piedmont used either the 737-200 or the F28 into FWA from DAY. After the DAY hub was closed by US in favor of PIT, I think FWA got F100s to PIT (AA also operated F100s into FWA into ORD alongside Eagle ATRs for a while) and B1900s to IND. Than US replaced the F100s on FWA-PIT with SAAB 340s, and then US left FWA (and SBN) after PIT was dehubbed.

That said, with the AA/US merger, I have a gut feeling that "new" AA might add PHL or CLT, maybe even as soon as crossfleeting begins, due to the strong local ties to both cities and Eagle's strong position at FWA. I could see Eagle boosting FWA-DFW to E175s or the like as well.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12050 times:
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I can't talk about the AA/US merger and it's effect on SBN but I have a strong hunch that something is in the works between SBN airport officials an AA. Whether it pans out or not is anybody's guess. Also F9's schedule has been released to Jan 2014 and guess what, SBN's Denver service is still there even after the one year expiration of the SCASD grant. I guess when you are now taking 30% of the other carriers passengers and connecting them reliably thru DEN it makes sense to keep it going. I've checked some advance bookings on Seat Guru and SBN passengers seem to be very supportive of the service. Most flights several months out have 90 or more booked and one's close to flight time have 125 or so booked. That is a plus for SBN.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11955 times:

With the news of DL dehubbing MEM, here's my thought of the impact to all the DL Indiana airports.

-IND: The biggest airport in the state by far will probably will see MEM dropped entirely as it's all 50-seaters, unless RP wants to send in ERJ-145s from IND MX to MEM for the 10 or so 50-seater flights that will stay. We'll see in the next DL schedule load. And if IND-MEM is dropped, it won't hurt either IND or DL's operation there much, much like how AA's dropping of IND-STL didn't hurt IND as a whole or AA at IND.

-EVV: Saw MEM dropped last year around the same time as the hub cuts that also killed AMS. Of the four airports here, EVV is the most heavily reliant on DL by far (70% share as opposed to the 40% range at SBN and FWA or their 25% share at IND), and lacks any LCC (they famously gave G4 a stingy incentive package that led them to go to OWB instead).

-FWA: Saw MEM service in the early 90s on DC-9s, but it didn't last. More recently, FWA-MEM was rumored several years ago in part to feed the 9E MX base at FWA, with Mike Boyd bringing up the subject at a FWA-sponsored conference that I went to in 2010. But as soon as MEM saw its first big round of cuts, any possibility of FWA-MEM returning went out the window.

-SBN: I'm not sure if SBN ever saw MEM service - could anyone from SBN fill me in on this? That said, the possibility of SBN getting MEM went out the door just as fast as it did at FWA (if not faster, as FWA could have handled RONs at the 9E MX base).



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11921 times:
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SBN never had MEM service.

User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11803 times:
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SBN's numbers are in for April.

Key points: This is the month after Spring Break is over so traffic is down slightly.
United has cut their lost traffic numbers almost in half. They are also
using Shuttle America E170's more on busy days and for the summer.

Here is a link to the report: http://www.flysbn.com/documents/Apr2013StatReport.pdf


User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11767 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 11):
I'm not sure, but I think Piedmont used either the 737-200 or the F28 into FWA from DAY. After the DAY hub was closed by US in favor of PIT, I think FWA got F100s to PIT

I seem to remember them using 737-200/300s most of the time. Not sure if/when they used F28s.



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11767 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 13):
Saw MEM service in the early 90s on DC-9s,

Not sure why they didn't last. Hated to work them as they were FULL and we had to solicit volunteers most days. But this was in the days of the $99 R/T 30-day advance purchase fares, so they probably didn't make much, if any, money.



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11719 times:
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It would be interesting to see the May and June numbers for SBN. just checking on SeatGuru and also F9's website. F9's loads have been really strong. Today's SBN-DEN flight has no seats available and a sample return flight next Thursday night has only 5 empty seats. Hope this keeps up through the summer.

User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11699 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 16):
Not sure if/when they used F28s.

I have an entry in my log from Nov.23,1992 FWA-PIT on a F-28..Morning departure...IF that helps.

Entries from Oct. of 93 have the FWA-PIT as D9S equipment.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11617 times:

FWA's numbers for May are up:
http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_05_2013.pdf

-May 2013 pax up up 4.3% over May 2012 and 0.69% YTD
-May 2013 cargo up 1.24% over 2012 and 7.24% YTD
-All-airline load factors continue to be high at 84%
-FWA fares remain cheaper than SBN's on average, even with F9 at SBN (though IND still maintains a price edge over both)
-YTD market share is DL 40.25%, Eagle 26.26%, G4 22.26%, UA 11.12%, and charters 0.11%

Also of note at FWA: DL's second summer-seasonal MSP resumed this month, UA has restored some weekend frequencies to ORD, and G4 is also adding seasonal capacity boosts on some routes.

G4 will also be hosting a dodgeball tournament at the Three Rivers Festival in Fort Wayne to tie into their national "Dodge High Fares" ad campaign. (I wonder if this will affect Eagle's usual sponsorship of the Three Rivers Festival.) Is G4 planning a similar event in the South Bend/Mishawaka area?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinecsturdiv From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1449 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11615 times:

Last weekend I drove down to South Bend for a wedding, and while heading back to the northwest suburbs of Chicago and on the Indiana Toll Road (god I hate that highway) I noticed that F9 had some billboards on the westbound lanes advertising their SBN service. Not sure if it is from F9 or SBN or if it was aimed at people who might be heading to MDW/ORD from SBN area.


Posting from somewhere between KORD and KRFD
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11598 times:

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 21):
Last weekend I drove down to South Bend for a wedding, and while heading back to the northwest suburbs of Chicago and on the Indiana Toll Road (god I hate that highway) I noticed that F9 had some billboards on the westbound lanes advertising their SBN service. Not sure if it is from F9 or SBN or if it was aimed at people who might be heading to MDW/ORD from SBN area.

It's probably aimed at people in SBN and also northwest Indiana heading to ORD or MDW. And it's nothing new for an Indiana airport.

Over a decade ago, FWA put up billboards on I-69 near Anderson on the drive home from IND encouraging travelers to "save precious time" and choose FWA on their next trip. And over the past several years, IND has often put up billboards near CVG and SDF. Yes, I know that IND is an Indiana airport while CVG and SDF aren't, but it was IND that put up the ads. (Still boggles my mind why IND chose to advertise in WN-heavy SDF and not someplace like FWA with G4, but no network LCC.)



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11544 times:
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G4 sponsored some puck shooting contests between periods at Notre Dame hockey games and similar events in the SBN area. Happy to see that the F9 billboards were put up along the Toll Road. Apparently it has been working cause F9 loads have been up these past two months.

User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11462 times:
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The F9 billboards (These are put up by the airport) on the Indiana Toll Road may be working. Checking on SeatGuru.com tomorrows Frontier flight SBN-DEN minus the exit row has only 1 empty seat for sale. I put in a sample return flight this Thursday from Denver and there are only 20 seats left and those will probably be gone by flight time. Now the other guys cancelled their early morning connecting flight to ORD tomorrow. Maybe some off those rebooked with F9.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (1 year 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11424 times:

The G4 "Dodge High Fares" charity dodgeball tournament that's going to be held at the Three Rivers Festival in FWA also has an SBN counterpart.

http://dodgehighfares.com/events/south-bend-in/

Also, DL seems to be doing very well at FWA as of late. In April, average DL LFs from FWA were 81%, and FWA-MSP is off to a great start for the season with an 80% LF. Me thinks that DL will send the new 9E CRJ-900s to FWA very soon, as 9E has an MX base here, and that MSP will stay year-round.

http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/MINUTES.5.13.13.pdf



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11452 times:

I remember "fun" nights like that.   


Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11420 times:

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 21):
Not sure if it is from F9 or SBN

Likely it was included in the SCASD grant that brought service to SBN in the first place. I believe then it would be SBN, but it is using money already pledged for that purpose, none of their regular advert budget.


User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11409 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 15):
United has cut their lost traffic numbers almost in half.

Yeah but they are still down 15ish%.

I just realized something, when did CLE service end? That may partially explain the crappy numbers for UA if this years numbers are being compared against last year if CLE was still being served.

UA is still getting its butt handed to it.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (1 year 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11370 times:
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I think CLE service ended last year sometime. It would be interesting to see F9's numbers these past two months as they been flying full airplanes since Spring Break with no let up in sight.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (1 year 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11340 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 30):

I think CLE service ended last year sometime.

IIRC, SBN-CLE ended last September. FWA-CLE ended in late 2009 as part of broader cutbacks at CO.

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 29):
I just realized something, when did CLE service end? That may partially explain the crappy numbers for UA if this years numbers are being compared against last year if CLE was still being served.

SBN-CLE had 28% loads toward the end. FWA-CLE wasn't much better with 36% loads toward the end. In both cases, UA's existing ORD flights (for SBN, because of the UA/CO merger; for FWA, with CO switching from SkyTeam to Star around the same time) could handle the loyal CO flyers and OnePass members easily.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineflyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1876 posts, RR: 3
Reply 32, posted (1 year 1 month 22 hours ago) and read 11316 times:

Sorry to stray off topic for a moment, but I recently relocated to indianapolis, and was hoping there might be a good place to watch takeoffs and landings, especially the FedEx heavies?

User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 1 month 21 hours ago) and read 11296 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 18):
F9's loads have been really strong. Today's SBN-DEN flight has no seats available and a sample return flight next Thursday night has only 5 empty seats. Hope this keeps up through the summer.

Looking at April, their load factor was around 75%. March was 87%, 70% in February, and 71% in January. About average for SBN (except March). Is 75% on average enough for them to make money without the grant?


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (1 year 1 month 21 hours ago) and read 11280 times:
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F9's average load factor for SBN has now been around 81% according to airport management. The winter was slow and April was down a bit because it was after Spring Break. However from what I can see doing a sampling of flights, average load factors are now about the same as March's with 87% or even higher. I also think that F9 is now drawing passengers from a broader area of Michiana. Maybe from AZO and even close to the GRR area.

Talking to the folks in Denver when I flew to SBN at the end of January they said that load factors were down systemwide after the holidays.

[Edited 2013-06-29 17:48:06]

User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (1 year 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 11241 times:
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I just did a check on seat availability for July for F9 SBN-DEN putting in various days. Around the July 4th holiday they are going out with an average of 126 passengers and coming in with 115. After the 4th they are averaging 110-115 per flight each way with some days completely sold out. On the conservative side they will probably be 82% LF or so for July and on the high side maybe 87% or higher. SBN's average load factor for all airlines is about 84% so F9 is probably hitting that now. It will be interesting to see the May and June numbers from SBN . An F9 spokesperson told SBN that the route is performing as expected for a new route.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (1 year 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 11217 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 34):
Talking to the folks in Denver when I flew to SBN at the end of January they said that load factors were down systemwide after the holidays.

Sounds a lot like FWA in general. Their two weakest months are right after the holidays: January and February. Traffic picks up big in March and stays strong until late December.

The airlines here cope with it in different ways:
-DL typically suspends MSP and cuts DTW from 4x to 3x on weekdays and 4x to 2x on weekends, with MSP and 4x DTW resuming in March. (ATL remains at 3x year-round.)
-Eagle usually goes to 3x ORD/2x DFW during the slow months, boosting ORD to 4x in March.
-G4 flies their normal 2 per week flights to SFB, PIE, and PGD during the slow months, and adds frequencies in March for Spring Break.
-UA has the most limited schedule at FWA among the legacies, so it should come as no surprise that UA only goes from 3x to 2x to ORD on Saturday and Sunday during the slow months.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 34):
I also think that F9 is now drawing passengers from a broader area of Michiana. Maybe from AZO and even close to the GRR area.

I'd say that SBN is grabbing more passengers from Warsaw than before thanks to F9 as well. (People in Warsaw tend to fly from both SBN and FWA based on fare and schedule, and both airports have run ads there.) Remember, the CEO of Warsaw-based Lake City Bank wrote a letter in support of the F9 SCASD grant.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 37, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10977 times:

One of our local papers had a great article today on FWA and business travel.
http://www.fortwayne.com/apps/pbcs.d...20130708/BIZ/320122399/1017/TOPBIZ

The article states that 70% of FWA pax fly for business and that FWA is currently running a survey to decide what hub(s) that FWA should get service to next. The survey should be done soon.

E-boarding passes will be coming soon to FWA as well (and many other airports including SBN, as UA has said that e-boarding passes will be systemwide by year-end).



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10889 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 37):
The article states that 70% of FWA pax fly for business and that FWA is currently running a survey to decide what hub(s) that FWA should get service to next. The survey should be done soon.

as if there are a lot of "reasonable" choices??? Come on! Obviously one would think that DEN could accommodate a daily R/T, like UA had decades ago. Morning departure out, evening back..simple. The other that would make the most sense, IMHO, is CLT. Once the new AA figures out exactly where to realign capacity there ought to be room for a couple of CLT round trips daily even if on a 50 seater.

Hubs..why would you want to put any eggs into the baskets of delay prone EWR or PHL..if anything...a return to a daily flight to NYC (LGA or even JFK) by either AA or DL seems to make more sense...here again..either an early morning to and later evening return from...or a very late afternoon/early evening to NYC with a mid AM return. I guess it would depend if that aircraft could then do a flight to ORD or DTW respectively.

Hopefully, FWA can get this service and keep it with fares that make it uneconomical to drive to IND/ SBN/ or wherever.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 39, posted (1 year 3 weeks ago) and read 10776 times:

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 38):
as if there are a lot of "reasonable" choices??? Come on! Obviously one would think that DEN could accommodate a daily R/T, like UA had decades ago. Morning departure out, evening back..simple. The other that would make the most sense, IMHO, is CLT. Once the new AA figures out exactly where to realign capacity there ought to be room for a couple of CLT round trips daily even if on a 50 seater.

Hubs..why would you want to put any eggs into the baskets of delay prone EWR or PHL..if anything...a return to a daily flight to NYC (LGA or even JFK) by either AA or DL seems to make more sense...here again..either an early morning to and later evening return from...or a very late afternoon/early evening to NYC with a mid AM return. I guess it would depend if that aircraft could then do a flight to ORD or DTW respectively.

You forgot FWA-IAD. There is a lot of business between FWA and DC/NoVA (more than NYC), UA has a huge hub there, and there's no congestion at IAD like there is at EWR/PHL. And when the Silver Line to IAD is completed five years from now (and it could be sooner), IAD could also be an option for some DCA users. I could see DEN (UA or F9) or LGA (DL) as well - FWA-DEN is actually a larger O&D market than SBN-DEN, but unlike SBN, there's no nonstop. And NYC is traditionally a strong market from FWA, plus DL is having a wee bit of growing pains with their LGA hub scheduling and will probably shuffle around cities a bit.

CLT is having a bit of a gate shortage right now, so I wouldn't expect CLT (even with the AA/US merger) until the new regional concourse is complete.

[Edited 2013-07-09 14:42:15]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10741 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 39):
You forgot FWA-IAD. There is a lot of business between FWA and DC/NoVA (more than NYC), UA has a huge hub there, and there's no congestion at IAD like there is at EWR/PHL.

Yup..I sure did...and learned from you that the market there is strong for FWA. Gracias!


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10627 times:
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SBN's May Traffic is in folks:
http://www.flysbn.com/documents/May2013StatReport.pdf

Frontier had a huge month at SBN with 2,032 Enplanements for an average of 120 passengers per flight for 17 flights operated for an average outbound load factor of 86%. Deplanements in SBN from DEN totaled 2,239 for an average of 132 passengers per flight for 17 flights for an inbound average load factor of 95 %.

United and Delta are only down 3.63% and 2.85% respectively in Enplanements and .68% and 7.65% respectively in Deplanments.

Allegiant since introducing PGD service is up a whopping 56% in Enplanements and 55% in Deplanements.

From putting samplings in on the web for SBN-DEN it appears Frontier had a good month in June also.

[Edited 2013-07-11 15:07:00]

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10517 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 41):
Allegiant since introducing PGD service is up a whopping 56% in Enplanements and 55% in Deplanements.

Similar story at FWA regarding PGD. G4 grew their market share from 17% to 22% after PGD was introduced and Allegiant's pax numbers are up 33% YTD.

If G4 resumes FWA-LAS with the Airbus as rumored, I could see them beating Eagle in market share and becoming FWA's #2 airline.

FWA should be posting their June traffic numbers next week on their website. As always, I'll provide a link and the full rundown.

[Edited 2013-07-12 13:14:36]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10461 times:
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Here is SBN's market share per Airline:

Enplanements: Delta 39.52%
Allegiant 32.43%
United 20.93%
Frontier 7.11%

Deplanements: Delta 39.10%
Allegiant 32.64%
United 21.09%
Frontier 7.17%

SBN's Overall Load Factor is 77% which is an increase over last year. This means little though as Allegiant and Frontier are beating that hands down. I think personally that the status quo at SBN is perfect. If American were to come back United's numbers would go in the tank especially if Eagle operates both ORD and DFW.


User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10450 times:

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 26):

Looks like FWA picked up 5 diversions this afternoon from DTW.

Wow looks like DL got tired of the bickering between the TOL FBOs. TOL can't even catch the diversions now.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 45, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10389 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 43):

Here is SBN's market share per Airline:

Enplanements: Delta 39.52%
Allegiant 32.43%
United 20.93%
Frontier 7.11%

Deplanements: Delta 39.10%
Allegiant 32.64%
United 21.09%
Frontier 7.17%

SBN's Overall Load Factor is 77% which is an increase over last year. This means little though as Allegiant and Frontier are beating that hands down.
FWA's YTD market share per airline for January-May 2013 (unlike SBN, these are combined enplanements and deplanements):
Delta 40.25% (flat compared to 2012)
Eagle 26.26% (down 3 share points over 2012)
Allegiant 22.26% (up 4.5 points over 2012)
United 11.12% (down 1.5 points over 2012)
Charters 0.11% (down 0.3 points over 2012)

http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_05_2013.pdf

Average load factor for May at FWA is 84%, with G4 flights even higher than that and DL doing very well, too.

Overall, FWA pax were up 4.31% in May 2013 compared to May 2012 and up 0.69% YTD compared to 2012.

[Edited 2013-07-13 08:05:11]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offline7e72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 46, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10199 times:

Frontier just announced that SBN on September 9. I thought the loads were were pretty good.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 10171 times:

Quoting 7e72004 (Reply 46):

Frontier just announced that SBN on September 9. I thought the loads were were pretty good.

Announced what? you must have skipped a part!


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10151 times:
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Loads were pretty good on SBN-DEN as of March but the airline couldn't sustain its service during the winter months by subsidizing it with summer loads.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 49, posted (1 year 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10093 times:

FWA is getting a new fuel farm... and is changing parking vendors after 45 years. Goodbye Standard Parking, hello Republic Parking Systems.

http://www.fortwayne.com/apps/pbcs.d...0130716/NEWS/320121720/1005/NEWS09

I bet this means that Republic's "Thanks Again" parking and airport rewards program (already in place at SBN, DAY, and TOL among other airports) will be introduced at FWA, as FWA has expressed interest in a rewards program in the past.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10078 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 48):

Their costs must have been crazy high if they weren't able to turn a profit with 75% load factor. I assume the SCASD grant was 1 year in duration considering the end date. They took that sweet cash and ran.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10029 times:
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Frontier had been operating an average of 16 flights a month SBN-DEN. last month they carried an average of 120 passengers out of SBN and 134 into SBN Thats a load factor of 89% out and 94 % or so in and they couldn't make a profit on that. I agree the winter months of January and February had load factors of 75-79% or so but even Frontier people in Denver told me that the whole system was slow at that time. Capital Flyer you are right they took the cash and ran. Also go to their website an see who their executives are and what their airline experience is. Frontier is trying to mold themselves into something of a hybrid ULLC. How better to do that than siphon off a few executives from Allegiant. The problem with this is they cannot decide from day to day how they are going to do this and with "Silent Siegel" running things from the top go figure. One of the execs although having airline experience has his main college degree in Biology so go figure.

SBN used to have SBN-DEN flights after deregulation operated by United with B727 aircraft. Those flights were never more that 65 or so passengers on them. Frontier nearly doubled that on every flight with the exception of two months. SBN's costs to airlines are low compared to other airports so that is not a problem.

Bottom line is airlines exec have to realize that the industry is a service industry and the bean counters that are running it now are doing more harm than good for their employees and the traveling public. The last great airline execs were Herb Kelleher and Gordon Bethune. Bob Crandall also comes close.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9950 times:

Another positive month for FWA in June: http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_06_2013.pdf

Pax count up 7.13% YOY and 1.89% YTD (combined enplanements and deplanements)

YTD market share at FWA for January-June:
DL 40.43% (up over January-May YTD)
Eagle 25.97% (down over January-May)
G4 22.38% (down very slightly over January-May)
UA 11.13% (up very slightly over January-May)
Charters 0.09% (FWA must not be getting much charter action this year)



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9932 times:
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The Motley Fool's have an article today about Republic Airways Corporation, parent of Frontier. The problem at SBN was not that Frontier was not filling seats because except for January and February they were and the last two months the flights were mostly full according to the airport's statistics. The real problem according to the article is that Frontier needs Allegiant style load factors of 94% in and out on every flight to make a profit because of their paper thin operating margins. Allegiant achieves this and more at SBN on every flight but they have much better operating margins hence profitability. United could easily operate the route with the same A319 and make a profit out of it with the same load factor as Frontier because their operating margins are better. Southwest has an average systemwide load factor of 80% and makes a profit because their operating margin is better.

http://beta.fool.com/maholder/2013/0...ves/40643/?source=eogyholnk0000001


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9845 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 53):
The Motley Fool's have an article today about Republic Airways Corporation, parent of Frontier. The problem at SBN was not that Frontier was not filling seats because except for January and February they were and the last two months the flights were mostly full according to the airport's statistics. The real problem according to the article is that Frontier needs Allegiant style load factors of 94% in and out on every flight to make a profit because of their paper thin operating margins. Allegiant achieves this and more at SBN on every flight but they have much better operating margins hence profitability. United could easily operate the route with the same A319 and make a profit out of it with the same load factor as Frontier because their operating margins are better.

Sounds like now's the time for UA and FWA to pounce on SBN and F9 by launching daily service on FWA-DEN (which also happens to have more O&D than SBN-DEN). Those profit margins and breakeven LFs don't look too good for F9 or the future of the route at SBN, especially since F9 has a longstanding reputation (moreso than anyone else) of taking SCASD grants and ending service after or shortly after the grant ends.

And I bet that between more O&D traffic, higher margins, and FWA's high yields, UA could operate a CR7, E170, or even a 50-seater (CR2 or ER4XR) on FWA-DEN and make more money than F9 is making right now on SBN-DEN. And if FWA-DEN is on a CR7 or E170, there's the added bonus of F seats for even higher margins, something F9 doesn't have.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 55, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9685 times:

I've been thinking about how DL's forthcoming phaseout of most 50-seat flying and replacement with larger jets, and how it will affect FWA.

Today's DL schedule from FWA is:
5x DTW (reduced to 3x for the slow Jan-Feb months) - normally 250 seats/day
3x ATL (stays consistent year round) - 150 seats/day
1x MSP (2x in peak season) - 50 seats/day
All on CR2s (both 9E and EV)
Total departures/day in most months: 9
Total seats/day in most months: 450

What I think DL's FWA schedule will look like one year from now:
4x DTW (2x 9E CR9, 2x EV CR2; 2x CR9/1x CR2 in Jan-Feb) - 252 seats/day
3x ATL (1x 9E CR9 for MX RON, 1x EV CR7, 1x CP E170/E175 or EV CR9) - 210-217 seats/day
1x MSP (1x 9E CR9) - 76 seats/day
Total departures per day in most months: 8 (loss of 1 DTW CR2)
Total seats/day in most months: 531-538
Of the seats, 69 would be new-to-market F seats and 462-469 would be Y seats (including Economy Comfort), so almost all of the capacity gains would be new F seats and Y would remain capacity-neutral, a goal for DL

What about the possibility of mainline, you might ask? FWA is home to a 9E MX base, so unless that base closes (which I think is unlikely as it's 9E's closest MX base to DTW), I wouldn't expect mainline here except on an ATL flight. And even then, we'll be seeing CP and S5 E-Jets plus EV CR9s (9E closed their ATL pilot base in Chapter 11) before mainline comes back.

Anyone willing to make bets for SBN?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 56, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9693 times:

As noted in its own thread, IND is getting MBJ and NAS service starting in December. It looks as if things might finally be turning around for IND. This year will see the addition of IND-LAX on AA, the same route doing daily for DL, the addition of some Florida Saturday service for DL, and of course MBJ and LAX.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 57, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9657 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 54):
Sounds like now's the time for UA and FWA to pounce on SBN and F9 by launching daily service on FWA-DEN (which also happens to have more O&D than SBN-DEN).

Why would UA pounce on SBN via FWA when they serve SBN? I really don't get the mentality that drives people to think every regional airport is at war with each other. Indiana is a small state and having a blood feud amongst the cities isn't going to help anyway.

What exactly is the FWA-DEN O&D market? F9 right now is carrying around 40 pdew on O&D. The DOT has FWA-DEN at 17 ppd / 8 pdew. That's horrible. Honestly most of the FWA markets aren't very strong O&D wise and rely alot on connecting traffic per the DOT stats.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 55):
What I think DL's FWA schedule will look like one year from now:
4x DTW (2x 9E CR9, 2x EV CR2; 2x CR9/1x CR2 in Jan-Feb) - 252 seats/day
3x ATL (1x 9E CR9 for MX RON, 1x EV CR7, 1x CP E170/E175 or EV CR9) - 210-217 seats/day
1x MSP (1x 9E CR9) - 76 seats/day
Total departures per day in most months: 8 (loss of 1 DTW CR2)
Total seats/day in most months: 531-538
Of the seats, 69 would be new-to-market F seats and 462-469 would be Y seats (including Economy Comfort), so almost all of the capacity gains would be new F seats and Y would remain capacity-neutral, a goal for DL

Is the high yield traffic going to be there to fill those seats though? Also need to remember not all of the 50-seaters are going to be gone from DL within a year. The latest plan I remember still has 125 CRJ-200s in fleet for at least 3 more years if not much longer. There isn't any rush to replace them in a smaller market like FWA. I can understand the need to rotate them in for Mx, but other than that...your plan is a bit too aggressive. ATL is probably the best bet to see any eqp upgrade to a CR7 or CR9, but I wouldn't hold my breath for more than that until there is a further drawdown of the 50-seater. I have a feeling though at some point they'll need to revisit the 50-80 seat turboprops for the shorter stage flights to make them more viable.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 58, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9638 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 57):
The latest plan I remember still has 125 CRJ-200s in fleet for at least 3 more years if not much longer. There isn't any rush to replace them in a smaller market like FWA.

I did factor in the CR2s on some of the DTW flights. Ideally, the two peak RON departures/arrivals from DTW would be to bring CR9s in for MX and the other 2 that are off-peak and don't need an RON would remain CR2, with the fifth flight dropped to remain capacity-neutral.

DL's plan is that by the time the 50-seaters reach 125, all 450-750 mile routes will no longer have 50-seaters (currently, the DL 50-seater cutoff is 750 miles). FWA-ATL/MSP both fit this criteria as does SBN-ATL. There may not be a rush to replace them to DTW, but there will be a rush to replace them at ATL and (to a lesser extent) MSP.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 57):
I really don't get the mentality that drives people to think every regional airport is at war with each other. Indiana is a small state and having a blood feud amongst the cities isn't going to help anyway.
FWA and SBN are a different story. In addition to IND stealing passengers from FWA and ORD/MDW stealing from SBN (which has been the case for decades), there's also a large, fast-growing metro area called Warsaw halfway between FWA and SBN.

Warsaw is a big market for travel as 4 of the top 5 orthopedics makers (DePuy, Zimmer, Medtronic, and Biomet; Smith & Nephew USA is based in MEM because of the FedEx SuperHub) have a significant presence in Warsaw and are major business travel generators. And in addition to their Warsaw factories, Zimmer and Biomet are headquartered in Warsaw. (Medtronic is headquartered in MSP and DePuy is owned by Johnson & Johnson.) One of the largest Indiana-based banks, Lake City, also calls Warsaw home, along with Da-Lite (one of the largest manufacturers of projection screens in the world).

Both FWA and SBN see Warsaw as their market because the two are about equidistant, both airports have advertised in Warsaw, and many business travelers in Warsaw switch back and forth between FWA and SBN based on schedule and price. And don't forget: When SBN was looking for support letters for the F9 DEN SCASD grant, Lake City Bank and one of the orthopedics makers (I think it was Biomet, IIRC) wrote support letters.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 57):
What exactly is the FWA-DEN O&D market? F9 right now is carrying around 40 pdew on O&D. The DOT has FWA-DEN at 17 ppd / 8 pdew. That's horrible. Honestly most of the FWA markets aren't very strong O&D wise and rely alot on connecting traffic per the DOT stats.

That's because the SBN-DEN market was stimulated massively by F9 - people were going to ORD and MDW to catch nonstops to DEN. Prior to F9's arrival, SBN-DEN was about 10 pax PDEW, which meant that F9 brought a 400+% increase in O&D on the route. I assume the scenario would be similar in the case of FWA-DEN, but with people driving to IND and DTW as opposed to ORD/MDW.

And you are right on FWA markets mostly relying on connections. Of the legacy routes served over the past few years, only Eagle to DFW and DL to ATL have high O&D concentrations. FWA-ORD/MSP/DTW live and die on connections (UA even times their FWA-ORD routes for UA and Star international connections); the same was true of FWA-CVG/CLE/PIT back when those routes ran.

FWA's highest O&D routes from a percentage standpoint are G4's Florida and MYR routes, but as we all know, G4 doesn't do connections. Anywhere. So they don't really count when it comes to O&D.

[Edited 2013-07-22 14:38:05]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3811 posts, RR: 34
Reply 59, posted (12 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9462 times:

IND has posted their stats for May and June today.

link

Year-to-date traffic through June stands at 3,596,868 - down 1.8% from the same period in 2012.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 60, posted (12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9388 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 59):

Year-to-date traffic through June stands at 3,596,868 - down 1.8% from the same period in 2012.

They have not had much success stopping the bleeding. Think back to their overall lack of success since the BAA gave up management of the airport. They have lost a significant amount of service. They were doing at one point about 8.5 million passengers a year. With the numbers you show they are on place for about 7.2 million this year. The airport kept losing routes and frequencies. They've had some really weak excuses at attempts for new service with the likes of Cape Air, Vision and Branson Air. They actually believed there was demand for IND to Branson. I am not sure what planet they were living on. Vision to Myrtle Beach? Just as ridiculous. Of course neither route lasted. IND-LAX with AA shows only a tiny bit of hope. But again that is a route DL wouldn't even fly daily until someone else started it. So a route that couldn't support daily now has (or shortly 2x daily? Someone blinks on this. It will be back to daily or less in a year. IND-MCO/TPA/RSW/NAS/MBJ are nice but those are pretty much just Saturday service. It doesn't even equal 1x daily to a generic destination. Basically that sums up all that has been accomplished at IND since the BAA moved out.

But hey at least you can get your oil changed and your car washed at IND. And a gas station is coming too. As if that matters. And what did IND spend their money on? They chose to blow money on a battle with someone wanting to open a remote parking lot on land NOT owned by the airport authority. Poor management is sinking them fast. The continued decline of passenger numbers is no shock. The IAA priorities are completely out of whack.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 61, posted (12 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9388 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 60):
Vision to Myrtle Beach? Just as ridiculous.

G4 has done FWA-MYR for the last four years just fine. Given that FWA is a 570K pax/year (inbound and outbound) airport and IND is over 7 million, there's no reason why IND-MYR couldn't succeed. Maybe it just needed a better carrier than V2, like NK should they ever come to IND.

Quoting Indy (Reply 60):
But hey at least you can get your oil changed and your car washed at IND. And a gas station is coming too. As if that matters. And what did IND spend their money on? They chose to blow money on a battle with someone wanting to open a remote parking lot on land NOT owned by the airport authority. Poor management is sinking them fast. The continued decline of passenger numbers is no shock. The IAA priorities are completely out of whack.

  

Not to mention that airport fees at IND have gone up since the new terminal, and the airlines cut back after the fees were raised from some of the lowest in the Midwest to some of the highest after the IAA took over. The IND metro area is booming, but the airport is shrinking. What's wrong with this picture?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3811 posts, RR: 34
Reply 62, posted (12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9368 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 61):
Quoting Indy (Reply 60):
But hey at least you can get your oil changed and your car washed at IND. And a gas station is coming too. As if that matters. And what did IND spend their money on? They chose to blow money on a battle with someone wanting to open a remote parking lot on land NOT owned by the airport authority. Poor management is sinking them fast. The continued decline of passenger numbers is no shock. The IAA priorities are completely out of whack.



Not to mention that airport fees at IND have gone up since the new terminal, and the airlines cut back after the fees were raised from some of the lowest in the Midwest to some of the highest after the IAA took over. The IND metro area is booming, but the airport is shrinking. What's wrong with this picture?

Well if the fees for the airlines have gone up, I can kind of understand why IND might not want to to have that remote parking lot on land not owned by the airport authority. If it's on airport property, then IND gets the money, and it's non-airline revenue. If IND can increase their non-airline revenue, then the fees they charge the airlines might actually go down, making IND more attractive to the airlines.

I think the same thing sort of happened at SMF. Once their new Terminal B opened, the fees to the airline's went way up, and now their traffic is down from where it used to be. (SMF had 10.2 million pax in 2008, now it's down to 8.9 million.)

New airport facilities are nice and a source of civic pride, but they do come with a price.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (12 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9318 times:

How much did this "gas station" cost the Airport pax ??

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9274 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 63):
How much did this "gas station" cost the Airport pax ??

Not sure, but it was probably baked into the IAA's annual budget for IND. Gas stations are cheap to build anyway, and if it's anything like the DFW Mart Shell station on DFW-owned land, expect a gas price 20 to 30 cents higher per gallon than nearby off-airport stations. But people will go there anyway to get gas before dropping off their Impala at the rental lot, so it could lead to extra revenue for IND and the IAA and pay for itself fast.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 65, posted (12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9214 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 62):
Well if the fees for the airlines have gone up, I can kind of understand why IND might not want to to have that remote parking lot on land not owned by the airport authority. If it's on airport property, then IND gets the money, and it's non-airline revenue. If IND can increase their non-airline revenue, then the fees they charge the airlines might actually go down, making IND more attractive to the airlines.

The IAA wasted large sums of money in legal fees fighting competition. It was completely ridiculous and they had zero chance of winning. Not only did they have no chance but it also tarnished their image. Trying to sue to block a private company from building a lot on private land was dumb. No other way to say it and be polite. They blew all that money and have nothing to show for it. Could have used that money and offered it as an incentive to an airline.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3393 posts, RR: 2
Reply 66, posted (12 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9148 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 1):
approached about NYC service but even though it is SBN's number one business market, it's only good for the most about 50 seats a day

What would be SBN and FWA prefered NYC airport?



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 67, posted (12 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9108 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 66):
What would be SBN and FWA prefered NYC airport?

For SBN, it would be LGA because of the Notre Dame alums and business ties.

For FWA, it would be EWR because the limited NYC O&D can be supplemented with UA and Star Alliance international connections.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8924 times:

FWA has submitted a SCASD grant with $2 million in local money backup for service to....PHL! The application says they are working with AA. Seems presumptive, no?

At any rate, I don't think anyone had PHL in the pool.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 69, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8859 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 68):
At any rate, I don't think anyone had PHL in the pool.

I did.   And for three big reasons: the O&D from companies like Wells Fargo and Lincoln Financial, the enhancements to East Coast connections, and most importantly, the AA/US merger making it far easier to start FWA-PHL service (just add it to the existing Eagle FWA station - no need to start a new one).

In fact, I could see Eagle growing to four AA/US hubs post-merger from FWA: the existing ORD and DFW flights (with DFW upgauged to larger jets), the double-daily PHL that is proposed in the SCASD grant, and a single or double-daily CLT flight as well.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8847 times:

I don't see FWACLT starting anytime soon. DL already provides connections to that part of the world and G4 has a non-stop nearby. US had the opportunity to go FWA-CLT when they cut the PIT hub years ago and didn't. I don't see that traffic materializing out of thin air, so to speak.

Now, if the FWAPHL flights work out, assuming the grant goes through, I'd be a little more optimistic, but I think they'd just end up cannibalizing their other hubs.



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlineapfpilot From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8844 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 65):

The IAA wasted large sums of money in legal fees fighting competition. It was completely ridiculous and they had zero chance of winning. Not only did they have no chance but it also tarnished their image. Trying to sue to block a private company from building a lot on private land was dumb. No other way to say it and be polite. They blew all that money and have nothing to show for it. Could have used that money and offered it as an incentive to an airline.

Couldn't agree more. With the new parking rates it doesn't even make sense for me to drive over anymore from Fishers. I just take a shared ride from Carey and more often than not I get a town car to myself for under $50



Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 72, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8844 times:

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 71):
With the new parking rates it doesn't even make sense for me to drive over anymore from Fishers.

Your logic confuses me. Didn't IND lower rates at some of their parking spaces as part of the parking revamp?

Speaking of airport parking, I'll be curious to find out if FWA parking rates will stay the same or go up under their new vendor come this fall. Right now, the economy credit card-only lot can't be beat - $6/day or a maximum of $35/week, and still walking distance from the terminal.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 73, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8840 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 70):
US had the opportunity to go FWA-CLT when they cut the PIT hub years ago and didn't.

US left a bunch of small Midwestern markets completely when PIT was dehubbed. It got to the point where they probably didn't even want to consider switching the markets to PHL or CLT. I'd say that 95% of the small Midwestern markets that lost PIT didn't get PHL or CLT service in return (or lost it quickly like EVV), but the East Coast markets that lost PIT kept US service and got their PIT flights replaced with extra PHL or CLT.

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 70):
Now, if the FWAPHL flights work out, assuming the grant goes through, I'd be a little more optimistic, but I think they'd just end up cannibalizing their other hubs.

FWA-ORD, maybe to the point where it needs to go from 4 to 3 flights. FWA-DFW has zero risk of being cannibalized with FWA-PHL... unless it's FWA-ATL (and even then, it isn't too far out of the way), FWA travelers typically don't go east to go west. Hence why DFW, MSP, and even ORD do so well for FWA.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8821 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 73):
FWA travelers typically don't go east to go west

DTW is East of FWA (If you want to get really pedantic about it. Most consider it North) and there was a lot of connecting West Coast traffic. My point is, a short hop out of the way can be competitive if the overall travel time is lower. Overall trip time via DTW was often an hour less than connecting through ORD.



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 75, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8806 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 74):
DTW is East of FWA (If you want to get really pedantic about it. Most consider it North) and there was a lot of connecting West Coast traffic. My point is, a short hop out of the way can be competitive if the overall travel time is lower. Overall trip time via DTW was often an hour less than connecting through ORD.

DTW is actually slightly northeast of FWA, but close enough to FWA in flight time that going west from DTW is no big deal. Same thing for FWA-ORD and eastbound connections, and that route is flown 7x daily (4x Eagle, 3x UA) on weekdays.

Speaking of out of the way routings: I did go FWA-DFW-CDG in 2009 on AA. Yes, it was out of the way and an ORD connection on AA/UA or a DTW/CVG connection on DL would have worked better, but I was meeting a friend from STL that was also flying DFW-CDG for the same trip, and I wanted to be on the same flight as her. The way back, we both connected in ORD (for me, CDG-ORD-FWA).



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3393 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8734 times:

Does anyone see MIE, BMG, OKK or LAF getting service soon, if so to where?

Would SBNers fly to MDW/GYY to make a cx?



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinejetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8744 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 76):
Would SBNers fly to MDW/GYY to make a cx?

People from South Bend usually drive or take the bus to Midway. There used to be service between SBN and MDW on Chicago Express, but that faded after ATA went out of business.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 78, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 8745 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 76):
Does anyone see MIE, BMG, OKK or LAF getting service soon, if so to where?

Only LAF (as the terminal is still there and can be upgraded for scheduled service cheaply), and if so, only G4 to SFB twice a week at first, with PIE or PGD added if successful.

Quoting jetskipper (Reply 77):

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 76):
Would SBNers fly to MDW/GYY to make a cx?

People from South Bend usually drive or take the bus to Midway. There used to be service between SBN and MDW on Chicago Express, but that faded after ATA went out of business.

Similar situation here in FWA re: IND. US (pre-dehubbing) and later TZ/C8 did fly FWA-IND, but most people drove to IND if they wanted to get somewhere from there. FWA was invited to participate in the 9K intrastate service, but then-FWA air service director Dave Young declined because FWA to IND is a shorter, easier drive than SBN/EVV-IND was. He was interested in EVV-only service, but 9K wanted IND service as part of the package.

As for shuttles: About six years ago, The Indiana Flyer started a short-lived executive shuttle to IND targeting business travelers for $120/person. They had gated parking, Sprinter vans with Wi-Fi, and frequent schedules... trouble is, most people driving from here to IND are usually leisure travelers, not business travelers. Some local businesses do use IND for most, if not all of their travel (notably, Navistar International was one of them prior to the relocation of their R&D center to a Chicago suburb); just not as many as those that usually use FWA. The service failed.

But shortly before Indiana Flyer folded, Hoosier Shuttle started running a shuttle to IND from a parking lot next to a local Ford dealer (and yes, they did and still use Ford E-Series vans). It targeted leisure travelers at a price that was about 40% less per person than what Indiana Flyer charged, with discounts for additional pax. The lower-priced/fewer-frill service was very successful, and Hoosier Shuttle has since expanded into Colts/Pacers game charters and shopping trips to Indy malls.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineapfpilot From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8685 times:

Couple of interesting movements and IND including a UA 744 inbound right now from Frankfurt. I'm guessing troop charter? Also looks like Miami Air and Sun Country have been busy at the airport this week with a few charters and UA brought a 764 from ROC as well.


Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 80, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8520 times:
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SBN's June Traffic figures are in and guess what folks F9 was operating very full flights. SBN-DEN was operating at a 98% load factor with an average of 135.29 passengers per flight. Me thinks management of F9 made a big boo-boo in pulling out so soon and I would not count them out of the SBN market forever. They operated 17 flights out and 18 flights in Inbound load factor was 95% with an average of 131 passengers per flight.

Here is a link to the report:

http://www.flysbn.com/documents/Jun2013StatReport.pdf


User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 81, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8501 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 73):
US left a bunch of small Midwestern markets completely when PIT was dehubbed. It got to the point where they probably didn't even want to consider switching the markets to PHL or CLT. I'd say that 95% of the small Midwestern markets that lost PIT didn't get PHL or CLT service in return (or lost it quickly like EVV), but the East Coast markets that lost PIT kept US service and got their PIT flights replaced with extra PHL or CLT.

Man, seeing posts like these makes me realize just how large US was at PIT, and I guess I can see how this model used to work for US. The midwest was very well covered due to their PIT hub along with PHL and CLT.

I know the folks at PIT have a long wish list of cities they want non-stop flights to again, and IND is on that list. Is PIT on a similar list for IND? I'd like to see more midwestern cities served by PIT again, but I doubt it would be too likely...

Someone mentioned FWA-PIT on a D9S, I take it that's a DC9? Which variation?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8398 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 81):
Someone mentioned FWA-PIT on a D9S, I take it that's a DC9? Which variation?

for the DC9 series the IATA codes tanslate into:
DC9 = DC9-10 (the original and smallest) NW's sat 78
D9S = DC9-30 the most popular NW's sat 100
D94 = DC9-40 small stretch of -30 NW's sat 112
D95 = DC9-50 bigger stretch of -30 has nose wheel bracket NW's sat 122
M80 = MD80 one more stretch and other upgrades NW's sat 144

(If memory serves correctly on the seating)



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8369 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 80):
SBN's June Traffic figures

Boffo month for SBN. Huge pax numbers. F9 brought in some new ones. UA went the wrong way. How do you lose 10% of your pax when airport is up so much? F9 kicked their butt.

UA is happy they are leaving. But as you said, maybe not for long. I think F9 needs to get its ownership issues figured out first then they can begin to plan for the future, maybe get some cash so they can invest in a route like SBN-DEN which looks like it would produce good income in future. I think it will be the end of 2014 before we can expect the triumphant return. UA will be watching, once they get a sense F9 might return (especially if RW sheds them removing scope issues), I bet you see 1x on an E70 to DEN. Until then, UA has no incentive to fly a longer leg for west coast connections when it is easier/cheaper to just go to ORD.


User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9182 posts, RR: 18
Reply 84, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8365 times:

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 82):
DC9 = DC9-10 (the original and smallest) NW's sat 78
D9S = DC9-30 the most popular NW's sat 100

I wonder if the "S" in D9S meant "stretch" since it was, more or less, a stretch of the initial variant... Nice info on the DC9. My first flight ever was on one, USAir flt. 8564, October 24, 1992 on PIT-MCO. If I had to guess, I'd say it was a D9S.

In any event, while we're on the subject of Indiana aviation, I remember Indy telling me how large NW was at IND back in the day. Did they have a crew base there at any point, or even an equipment base?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 85, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8373 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 84):
In any event, while we're on the subject of Indiana aviation, I remember Indy telling me how large NW was at IND back in the day. Did they have a crew base there at any point, or even an equipment base?

Though IND was a focus city for NW from around 2004 until the DL/NW merger and Great Recession, the red tail never had a mainline crew or equipment base.

However, 9E had pilot (CR2 only) and FA bases for Airlink operations at IND, which were a major portion of NW IND focus city flying. IIRC, the IND crew base closed during 9E's Chapter 11 bankruptcy.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 86, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8321 times:
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Allegiant is substituting an A319 for tonights flight 126 from IWA to SBN it is landing now and should be at the gate.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAY126


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 87, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8319 times:
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Here is something big happening right now in South Bend from Allegiant. This is tonight's flight 126 from Phoenix Mesa.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 88, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8274 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 84):
I wonder if the "S" in D9S meant "stretch" since it was, more or less, a stretch of the initial variant... Nice info on the DC9. My first flight ever was on one, USAir flt. 8564, October 24, 1992 on PIT-MCO. If I had to guess, I'd say it was a D9S.

It did. Much like the original code for the 727-200 was 72S and the 737-200 was also 73S. It has been relatively recent that the codes were changed.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 89, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8193 times:
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The use of the Allegiant A319 on the SBN-AZA run is permanent.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 90, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8191 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 89):

The use of the Allegiant A319 on the SBN-AZA run is permanent.

Not surprised - the A319 is a far better aircraft for the mission than the MD-80. 40% lower fuel burn, only 4 fewer seats, infinitely better hot/high performance, and superior range over the Mad Dog.

Should FWA-LAS or FWA-AZA return as part of G4's Tuesday route announcements, I wouldn't be surprised if it's also an A319 route (or a 757 route).



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 91, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8159 times:
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On a 2 hr 10 min flight from SBN-PHX the A319 saves 1,000 per hour on fuel costs.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 92, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8157 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 91):
On a 2 hr 10 min flight from SBN-PHX the A319 saves 1,000 per hour on fuel costs.

That is amazing. And it further confirms my thought that if G4 reintroduces FWA-AZA or FWA-LAS on Tuesday, they will use the A319 because of the fuel savings and better performance. Even if your airport has a nearly 12,000 foot runway like FWA that can handle a loaded A380, the A319 still beats the Mad Dog in every aspect.

In addition to buying some more used A319s (dual overwing exit) and A320s for growth between now and 2016, I think that G4 is going to be on a used A32x buying binge (all CFM56 engines) for MD-80 replacement as soon as airlines dump their A32xCEOs for A32xNEOs. In fact, I could see G4 ditching all their MD-80s within 3 years of the A32xNEO entering service as A32xCEO prices plummet. I even see A321s in G4's future for routes that need 757-level capacity but not 757 range.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3393 posts, RR: 2
Reply 93, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8069 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 91):

a 1,000 what?



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 94, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8057 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 93):
a 1,000 what?

He probably means that using the A319 instead of the MD-80 on SBN-AZA saves G4 $1,000 USD per hour on fuel costs.

Oh, and SBN-AZA is a 3 hr 20 min flight, not a 2 hr 20 min flight. I had a gut feeling that was the case because FWA-DFW, a shorter route in terms of miles, is a 2 hr 15 min flight.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 95, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8003 times:
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I was basing fuel costs on what American said that their A319 would save over and MD80. Sorry I forgot to figure the time zones in there. American said it is $600-1,000 dollars per hour in fuel over the MadDog.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 96, posted (11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7845 times:

Some good news for FWA before their big announcement tomorrow: Total enplaned/deplaned pax for July 2013 were up 8.57% over July 2012 and FWA pax volume is up 2.94% YTD. Between that and what we'll be seeing tomorrow, it should be another great year for FWA.

Source: http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_07_2013.pdf

I will be attending the FWA announcement on the Allen County Courthouse lawn tomorrow morning (it's open to the public for those of you in the FWA area) and will post pictures to this thread later in the day.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 97, posted (11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7821 times:
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SBN's traffic was up 18% in JUne with help from Frontier and Allegiant. Serving a total of 60,987 passengers total. I just wonder if we can keep if up when we loose Frontier. I also wonder if Frontier's 2300 passengers per month will go back to United and Delta.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 98, posted (11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7813 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 97):
I just wonder if we can keep if up when we loose Frontier.

The only other city I can see G4 serving from SBN in their current route network is FLL, which they tried before. Growth will have to come from UA, DL, or potentially an AA return.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 97):
I also wonder if Frontier's 2300 passengers per month will go back to United and Delta.

I'd say that some might, but many will switch back to ORD, MDW, and (for those in Warsaw) FWA.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7723 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 96):

Both SBN and FWA are doing well. SBN is up 13% on the year and 18% on the month. Hopefully the trend continues post-F9.

It has been way too long since any change in G4 at SBN. Too stagnant lately (which isn't bad in many ways). I'm hoping for at least 5-day a week service to PIE and IWA.



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 100, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7677 times:
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I have a sense F9 will be back in SBN when some of their financials and ownership issues change.

User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7596 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 100):

I think SBN has started to prove they can put people on airplanes to DEN. The problem, as I see it, is somewhat to do with how F9 priced the tickets, not the bodies in the seats.



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 102, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 7600 times:
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Quoting cleared2land reply 101

"I think SBN has started to prove they can put people on airplanes to DEN. The problem, as I see it, is somewhat to do with how F9 priced the tickets, not the bodies in the seats."

You are probably right if F9 priced the tickets like they should have they should reap over 1.5 million dollars profit off the service after all is said and done on Sept 8th. and that does not include the 700,000 dollars in SCASD money they took.

That is why I think they will be back when Indigo puts a more practical management team in place. Also if they keep F9 like it is as a connecting carrier with a Denver hub they need to time the connections better.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 103, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 7588 times:

One overlooked fact about G4's resumed FWA-AZA service: It will be flown on an A319 (though an MD-80 may be substituted if needed), making it the first scheduled passenger Airbus service in the history of FWA. (FedEx and UPS run scheduled A300s and A310s into FWA during the Christmas shipping rush.)

I also learned at the FWA-AZA press conference that along with the A319s to AZA, FWA will see A320s on G4 Florida routes as well. Initially, to avoid overbooking, only 156 seats (the capacity of a G4 A319) will be sold on FWA-AZA even if a larger 166-seat MD-80 is substituted at the last minute. Likewise, only 166 seats will be sold on the 177-seat A320s on FWA-SFB/PGD/PIE at first for the same reason while G4 familiarizes itself with A32x operations.

G4 shares Gates 7 and 8 with Eagle at FWA (who does their ground handling), and FWA Gates 5-8 can handle anything from a CRJ to a 757 as they were built when FWA saw mainline NW DC-9s, AA and US F100s, and DL 732s on a regular basis. (That said, if it weren't for the 9E MX base and upcoming 9E CR9 conversion, I would classify FWA as a candidate for DL's 717s when the DC-9s are retired.) One of the four FWA ramp-boarding gates (Gate 2) can also handle large jets if needed, though DL (9E or EV) always flies CR2s out of it to DTW, ATL, or MSP.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7469 times:

....C'mon G4.....give us something new at SBN.....you have been too quiet lately.

P.S. Thanks for thanks for the Airbus  



"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7474 times:

Anyone have the latest at EVV? Anything new down there?


"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 106, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7441 times:

Quoting cleared2land (Reply 104):
P.S. Thanks for thanks for the Airbus  

Same here at FWA.   I'm welcoming our first regularly scheduled pax A319 (or any Airbus) from FWA-AZA with open arms, not to mention regularly scheduled A320s from FWA to Florida cities.

Quoting cleared2land (Reply 105):
Anyone have the latest at EVV? Anything new down there?

Aside from the return of jetways, it's been pretty quiet on the EVV front this year. No new routes, no new airlines, and not much increased capacity. They got a SCASD grant in 2012 for a Star Alliance hub, but UA still hasn't bit. Though it's a (future) oneworld city pair, perhaps EVV could see CLT return once the whole AA/US vs. DOJ feud is settled (and I think it will be settled, not blocked).

And G4 is flying from OWB (Owensboro, KY) instead of EVV to SFB (there was even a short-lived LAS flight) and is showing no sign of leaving, though EVV has offered G4 hefty incentives to try to get them to switch airports. However, one should remember that it was lousy incentives on EVV's part when they originally wanted to enter the tri-state area that made them go to OWB instead, so maybe there's still bad blood between EVV and G4.

With I-69 extending to Bloomington in just a few months time, making the drive to IND four-lane all the way and cutting travel time to IND dramatically, EVV needs to think of something to keep pax because they will now be using not just SDF as an alternate airport, but IND as well. Yes, IND has had rising fares and rough times as of late, but IND is still a far cheaper airport than competition-starved EVV.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinewidget1580 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 345 posts, RR: 14
Reply 107, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7439 times:

For any SBN spotters, on October 20, 2013 SBN will have quite the line up for the ND vs. USC game on the 19th. I can't imagine the disaster that it will be on the operation there.



DL 8783 ATL 6:35A M88
DL 8786 ATL 11:30A D95
DL 5330 ATL 5:55P CRJ

DL 4893 DTW 8:00A CRJ
DL 8784 DTW 10:20A M90
DL 5621 DTW 1:42P CR7
DL 4097 DTW 3:25P CRJ
DL 4828 DTW 5:40P CRJ

DL 5622 LGA 10:30A CR7

DL 8785 MSP 7:30A M90
DL 3987 MSP 4:02P CRJ



KLM | Journeys of Inspiration
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 108, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7423 times:
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Quoting widget1580 reply 107 "For any SBN spotters, on October 20, 2013 SBN will have quite the line up for the ND vs. USC game on the 19th. I can't imagine the disaster that it will be on the operation there."

DL 8783 ATL 6:35A M88
DL 8786 ATL 11:30A D95
DL 5330 ATL 5:55P CRJ

DL 4893 DTW 8:00A CRJ
DL 8784 DTW 10:20A M90
DL 5621 DTW 1:42P CR7
DL 4097 DTW 3:25P CRJ
DL 4828 DTW 5:40P CRJ

DL 5622 LGA 10:30A CR7

DL 8785 MSP 7:30A M90
DL 3987 MSP 4:02P CRJ

Not a disaster at all Gate A3 jetbridge and the concrete ramp can handle the heavy metal and F9 will not be there. Also Allegiant's gate A9 can handle the heavy birds as well. Jetbridges at A5 and A6 can handle therm also don't know about the ramp though. Delta Ground Services has all the heavy tugs and also has all the proper towbars. They also have a large portable air conditioning unit that fits any of their aircraft. Gate A8 is free and can be used also. Here is a photo of Gate A7 (United) Gate A8 and Gate A9 (Allegiant)


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 109, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7433 times:
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Here is a picture of Gate A3 at SBN set up at a height for Airbuses. The ramp is also heavy concrete in this area and has all the DGS ground support equipment in place to handle A320 sized aircraft.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 110, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7217 times:

So far, the response to the reintroduction of FWA-AZA has been pretty darn good... looking on FWA's Facebook page, it seemed like the introductory fares sold out fast. (The same thing happened when FWA-MYR was introduced.) Makes me wonder with a response this good, will FWA-LAS return as soon as G4 adds the A319 and moves from Concourse D to A at LAS?

While we're at it, Eagle ground-handles G4 at FWA, and G4 is going to send A319s and A320s to FWA on a regular basis, which makes me wonder: Since Eagle already has (or will have) A32x ground equipment at FWA, could we see the peak ER4 on FWA-DFW swapped out for a mainline AA A319, or will we see larger Eagle jets on FWA-DFW first as soon as 70+ seat flying returns to DFW? As it is, FWA-DFW is one of the longest ER4 routes for Eagle, but the route has stuck around through oil price spike after oil price spike despite inefficient planes in use in part due to two high-yielding factors: high O&D (#2 market for FWA after ATL) and international connections. IMO, either an E175 or an A319 would work on the route. After all, DL says that an A319 can make a profit on their network in their configuration, which is similar to AA's, when it's only 65% full - and DL doesn't have fuel-cutting Sharklets on their A319s like AA does. Because of the high yields, FWA-DFW could easily be upgraded to larger 2-class aircraft as soon as AA gets more, with or without the US merger (which I think will still happen).



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7139 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 110):
Since Eagle already has (or will have) A32x ground equipment at FWA, could we see the peak ER4 on FWA-DFW swapped out for a mainline AA A319, or will we see larger Eagle jets on FWA-DFW first as soon as 70+ seat flying returns to DFW?

I would hope so..the best bet is an E75 as the 319 assignments have been doled out for the first year or so of deliveries.
Upgrading the DFW equipment for two flights and resumption of a third DFW would have Eagle dominating connecting service to the south Central, southwest and far west markets (not to mention Latin American connections at DFW)


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 112, posted (11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 7133 times:

First IND-LAX flight with AA goes out today. Looks like a very light load. It seems to pick up later in the week. Do you guys think this flight will last? I'd guess that it has a much better shot than IND-MYR and IND-BKG.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlinejetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (11 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7101 times:

Quoting widget1580 (Reply 107):
For any SBN spotters, on October 20, 2013 SBN will have quite the line up for the ND vs. USC game on the 19th. I can't imagine the disaster that it will be on the operation there.

It looks like the Oklahoma weekend on September 28th will be a great spotters weekend as well with 2 MD-88s and 2 DC-9s scheduled on Saturday including 2 mainline RONs.

It looks like this upcoming weekend for the Temple game, SBN will see CRJ-7s from MSP and LGA as well as DC-9s from DTW.

I believe Notre Dame is still scheduled to fly on DL 757-200/300s for all away games, so a good year for DL spotting!


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 114, posted (11 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7085 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 110):
While we're at it, Eagle ground-handles G4 at FWA, and G4 is going to send A319s and A320s to FWA on a regular basis, which makes me wonder: Since Eagle already has (or will have) A32x ground equipment at FWA, could we see the peak ER4 on FWA-DFW swapped out for a mainline AA A319, or will we see larger Eagle jets on FWA-DFW first as soon as 70+ seat flying returns to DFW?

I wouldn't hold your breath for mainline. The point that Eagle has the ground equipment to handle an Airbus isn't going to push mainline AA to throw one in there to DFW. On average AA is filling 76% of the seats from FWA to DFW (2012 data since 2013 is only through Feb). To me that says that an upgrade to a 70-seater would be more logical...if yields are as strong as you say.

With the likely upcoming spinoff of all Eagle ground employees to become the next DGS, the availability of ground equipment isn't going to play much into the decisions of mainline AA. If they want to send a 319 in they are going to do it on the routes merits, not because they have a tow bar there. If anything at this point AA in FWA handling G4 is a very good thing because that added income helps to cover any shortfalls the station has month-to-month.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 115, posted (11 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 7065 times:
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The ND-Oklahoma Weekend will also see MD88's and DC9-50 and CRJ900's from SBN to ATL

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 116, posted (11 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7014 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 112):
Do you guys think this flight will last? I'd guess that it has a much better shot than IND-MYR and IND-BKG.

I think IND-LAX will last with AA's popularity on both sides of the route (which will only get much stronger on the IND side with the US merger, should the feds not block it) and the Eagle/trans-Pacific/oneworld feed at LAX.

And the problem with IND-MYR wasn't the route, it was the airline. G4 has been flying FWA-MYR successfully for four seasons now, and FWA has less than 1/10th the pax of IND. Were it NK and not sketchy V2 running IND-MYR, I think it could have worked very well. IND-BKG? That route failed because you can drive from Indy to Branson in less than a day each way. It was doomed from the first flight.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 114):
If anything at this point AA in FWA handling G4 is a very good thing because that added income helps to cover any shortfalls the station has month-to-month.

DGS does the same thing in FWA, too. They (and Regional Elite and OH before it) have handled UA at FWA in addition to DL for years. Atlantic Aviation does some charter ground handling at FWA as well, but most FWA charters are handled by Eagle - like G4, charters also keep the Eagle rampers at FWA happy.

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 111):
I would hope so..the best bet is an E75 as the 319 assignments have been doled out for the first year or so of deliveries.

I suspect that we'll be hearing about the first Eagle E175 DFW routes soon, and that the longest ERJ routes like FWA-DFW and routes where Eagle is running 10 ERJs a day with no mainline on the side will be first in line.

[Edited 2013-08-27 17:42:26]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineATAIndy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 592 posts, RR: 4
Reply 117, posted (11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6970 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 112):
First IND-LAX flight with AA goes out today.

I grabbed a shot of AA 1338 coming in from LAX this evening. N934NN in the new paint was running it. This flight finally brings back regularly scheduled 738s to IND.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5441/9609650387_5fc5969ef6_c.jpg



Boiler up!
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 118, posted (11 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6910 times:

Quoting ATAIndy (Reply 117):
I grabbed a shot of AA 1338 coming in from LAX this evening. N934NN in the new paint was running it. This flight finally brings back regularly scheduled 738s to IND.

Good pic. So I see IND did the water cannon salute for the first departure. Isn't that a bit excessive for a domestic flight? Especially when it isn't even the first flight on the route.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 119, posted (11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6899 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 118):
Isn't that a bit excessive for a domestic flight? Especially when it isn't even the first flight on the route.

I agree - DL already flies IND-LAX, and many other airlines including TW, FL, WN, TZ, US, and NW have flown the route nonstop over the years. TW even used L-1011s on the route pre-deregulation.

Doing a water-cannon salute for a flight here at FWA is one thing, because chances are the route hasn't been served before or in years. Doing one on a route that has been served many times over decades like IND-LAX is overkill. No wonder IND management is looking for ways to add non-airline revenue like crazy.

[Edited 2013-08-28 12:36:26]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineindywa From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

UA ... IND-SFO? Looks like it's gonna happen

http://www.ibj.com/united-planning-d...-indianapolis/PARAMS/article/43241


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 121, posted (11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6843 times:

Quoting indywa (Reply 120):
UA ... IND-SFO? Looks like it's gonna happen

IND management has been wanting this route for eons. There was even an article on the website for Caldwell VanRiper, IND's ad agency, about the need for an IND-SFO nonstop. The article has since been pulled, but apparently from the IBJ.com article, the need has strengthened since.

Now, the question is: Will it be flown on an A319, A320, or 738?

I know that IND-SAN is also high on the radar screen of local business leaders and the IAA. Would WN be the best fit for SAN?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineATAIndy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 592 posts, RR: 4
Reply 122, posted (11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6765 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 118):
So I see IND did the water cannon salute for the first departure. Isn't that a bit excessive for a domestic flight?

I kind of thought it was excessive. Will we see one again when the 1x weekly Montego Bay and Nassau services start in December?  
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 121):
Will it be flown on an A319, A320, or 738?

I'm curious to know this as well. Any of those three will be good. I assume a 739 is out of the question on this route, but that would be the coolest option IMO.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 121):
I know that IND-SAN is also high on the radar screen of local business leaders and the IAA. Would WN be the best fit for SAN?

Either WN or DL, but SAN has been on the radar forever, I don't see it coming anytime soon.



Boiler up!
User currently offlineJetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6641 times:

For you SBN spotters, today you can expect a DL DC-9 upgrade along with a Miami Air 737-800 flying Temple back to PHL.

User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 124, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6431 times:
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SBN's numbers are out for July.

http://www.flysbn.com/documents/Jul2013StatReport.pdf

Pay close attention to the load factor figures in the footnote especially F9. Something is totally screwy with their thinking to pull out of on Sept. 8th. They had a better load factor for the month than Allegiant.

They can't say that they were not profitable unless they were not charging enough to make enough on the route.


User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 125, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6414 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 124):
They can't say that they were not profitable unless they were not charging enough to make enough on the route.

I really don't think they were. I could find flights SBN-LAX via DEN on F9 for $50-100 cheaper than UA and DL. On top of that F9 is flying an A319 over 800 nm, while UA is using ShuttleAmerica to go 80 nm. A CR2 is not efficient, but at only 80 nm it's better than an A319 which is also not cheap.

Bottom line, there's a reason F9 was selling so many seats. On Kayak and Expedia they're $50-$100 cheaper than the competition, with higher operating costs and longer stage lengths with mostly connections. Not a great recipe for profitability.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 126, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6404 times:
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That is where the problem lies with their planning dept. They did not need to price the flights like they did. At 98.5 load factor that is 135 passengers per flight for a flight length of 988 NM at a CASM wet at 11.9 cents a mile for the A319 (DOT Filed Figures) That comes out to a cost for a 138 seat aircraft of $16,225 for the SBN-DEN flight which means that they would have to charge those 135 passengers about $120.18 just to break even. A rounded off fare of about $150.00 per person on the SBN-DEN route would make them a small profit for the flight. The average SBN-DEN fare according to DOT figures before Frontier came was about $209.00. When all is said and done on Sept 8th Frontier would have flown over 21,000 passengers out of SBN and another 21,000 or so into SBN on 194 total flights. If they would have priced the tickets right F9 should have taken in about 8 million dollars in fares for the flights that maybe cost them 3 million to operate each way for a profit of 2 million dollars off the flights not including $700,000 in SCASD money. I mean how many $79.00 fares did they give away from, SBN-DEN. The average fare from SBN-DEN on F9 when I checked was $118.00, so they were undercutting their break even factor by a measily 2 dollars. I'm sure SBN passengers given a choice would have paid $20 more per ticket and kept the service.

User currently offlinecleared2land From United States of America, joined May 2010, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6366 times:

Sad thing here is that the math is easy. They knew all along what the end-result would be. They have this down to a science.


"Build a mile of highway, go one mile. Build a mile of runway, go anywhere" -Bart Geisler, Director, Aviation Assoc. o
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 128, posted (10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6348 times:
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Quoting cleared to land Reply 127

"Sad thing here is that the math is easy. They knew all along what the end-result would be. They have this down to a science."

You know I'm not really that good at math but if it looks like a rat, walks like a rat and smells like a rat then it is a rat. I still think they made 1 million or so dollars profit off the flights. I think SBN knows it also. I also think once F9 is sold and gets better capital access and installs a newer management team they may be back in SBN. Lots of other people think the same way. They also proved the need for better westbound connections than ORD and MSP and not only does United have all this data Delta does to and and appropriate airplane such as a Delta B737-800 or MD90 SBN-SLC or 2 UNited Express E170 flights SBN-DEN might do the trick.


User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6328 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 124):
SBN's numbers are out for July.

Well well well, look who actually increased their pax load, UA!! Surprised that DL was down so much YOY. It will be interesting to see how everything will shake out when F9 leaves.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 130, posted (10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6318 times:
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All airlines will be up this month with Notre Dame Football just starting. On the shakeout United is already beginning to move to 70 seaters to ORD to help digest the 2400 or so passengers a month that F9 was flying. Funny Allegiant started to fly A319's on their Phoenix/Mesa run in place of the gas guzzlin Mad Dogs and they have six less seats and they can make money on a longer stage length flight with 94% load factors because they are charging the right fares plus the right amount of money for all the ancillary revenue.

I still think any new management team at F9 will when they decide what kind of airline they want to be, how they want to work at DEN and sort things out they will probably come back to SBN and figure how to make money off the flights. Also another F9 employee I talked to at another airport said there were some other costs involved with the operation at SBN that cost them some profits but I just don't care to get into them here. He was also quite surprised that F9 was leaving SBN after they clearly established themselves on the route with no competition and said he begins to wonder about some of the crazy decisions made by management in the company.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 131, posted (10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Per the FWA e-newsletter, mobile boarding passes are (finally!) available at FWA. They are available to DL, UA, and G4 pax right now, with Eagle in the testing phase (coming soon).

UA has also implemented them at SBN as well. Have G4 and DL? The list on delta.com is a bit out of date (it doesn't have FWA).

[Edited 2013-09-05 10:56:10]

[Edited 2013-09-05 10:56:38]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 132, posted (10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6252 times:

So we have AA adding IND-LAX and UA adding IND-SFO. I wonder if DL will be next with IND-SEA. That route makes sense for the same reasons LAX and SFO did. Not only will it satisfy IND-SEA o/d but it will also help with IND-SEA-Asia.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 133, posted (10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6247 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 132):
I wonder if DL will be next with IND-SEA. That route makes sense for the same reasons LAX and SFO did. Not only will it satisfy IND-SEA o/d but it will also help with IND-SEA-Asia.

Don't forget about AS with their very deep DL codeshare at SEA and Midwest-SEA growth.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 134, posted (10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6246 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 133):
Don't forget about AS with their very deep DL codeshare at SEA and Midwest-SEA growth.

I would think DL would be a better match. They already have a large customer base here and with the number of flights they currently operate it would be easier to absorb the cost of the new flight. It will be cheaper per passenger for DL to service the flight. Unless AS outsources it to DL. But then again if DL is doing the work here why not just fly the route instead of introducing your customers to a different airline.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3811 posts, RR: 34
Reply 135, posted (10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6212 times:

IND July 2013 stats now posted.

Indianapolis International Airport
Airline Activity Summary
For Month Ending July 2013


Total July traffic was 651,445 - down 0.9% from July 2012.
International traffic was 3,495 - up 23% from July 2012.

Total Y-T-D traffic was 4,248,313 - down 3.3% from the same period last year.
Y-T-D international traffic was 20,139 - up 7.5% from the same period last year.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlinejetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (10 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6063 times:

Great news for SBN, it looks like Skywest is adding a SBN maintenance facility complete with engine and powerplant shop.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/news...0-1a4e-11e3-9529-0019bb30f31a.html


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 137, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6028 times:

Quoting jetskipper (Reply 136):
Great news for SBN, it looks like Skywest is adding a SBN maintenance facility complete with engine and powerplant shop.

Between AAR at IND, 9E at FWA, and OO at SBN, it seems like Indiana is getting a lot of MX facilities.

Will the SkyWest SBN MX facility be for OO only or EV as well?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 138, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5987 times:
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Quoting FWAERJ Reply137

"Will the SkyWest SBN MX facility be for OO only or EV as well?"

Who knows and is this a prelude to Skywest operating larger jets in SBN in conjunction with United and Delta. Also could this be the prelude for United Express Skywest CRJ700 service to Denver? Also is it likely that SBN CRJ200 service from Delta will go all ASQ and SKW? All food for thought. One nice thing about this is it is in partnership with Atlantic Aviation.

One thing I think that went in SBN's favor here is the availability of the hanger space and the fact that both EV and OO have flights to hubs in ORD, MSP, and DTW and SBN is right in the middle of all this just as FWA is for 9E.

Also on another subject. I wouldn't count F9 totally out of the SBN picture. I'm sure when the get their ownership and financial house in order they will look at resuming service at SBN. The route was beginning to pay off in terms of loads. They just have to get the right people in planning and yield management that know what the H they are doing so that they can make the proper yield on the flights. They are up to the same crap now with a fire sale on fares to the west coast. With that I don't know how they can make any money.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 139, posted (10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5907 times:

Now since it appears money is being put up for new IND service (SFO as an example -- I think a $2 mil guarantee against revenue) does anyone think Indianapolis/Indiana will put up the money to back a TATL flight?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 140, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5790 times:

From the "No Surprise Here" department: FWA is talking with DL about the possibility of larger aircraft.

http://www.jg.net/article/20130913/BIZ/309139977/1031/BIZ

With 9E's conversion to CR9s and the 9E MX base at FWA, I see the CR9 and potentially the E175 taking over all of the ATL and MSP flying and peak DTW flights (morning departures and evening arrivals for RONs at the MX base) from FWA.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 141, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 139):
Now since it appears money is being put up for new IND service (SFO as an example -- I think a $2 mil guarantee against revenue) does anyone think Indianapolis/Indiana will put up the money to back a TATL flight?

The IAA, City of Indianapolis, and local business leaders, yes. State of Indiana, no - I think some other airports, FWA in particular, would object to state money favoring one airport.

That said, I could see BA running a 788 on IND-LHR much like they are going to do with AUS-LHR.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 142, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5670 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 141):
The IAA, City of Indianapolis, and local business leaders, yes. State of Indiana, no

It goes beyond Indianapolis. First off Governor Pence would not be involved if it were Indianapolis only. Also see this quote from the Indy Star:

"The Indiana Economic Development Corp. will provide United Airlines with a minimum revenue guarantee during the term of a one-year agreement."

http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...ited-Airlines-flight-San-Francisco

This is obviously a statewide effort. We can look for gray areas and debate whether or not State government put up money but a state program was obviously at work.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3393 posts, RR: 2
Reply 143, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5630 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 137):
Between AAR at IND, 9E at FWA, and OO at SBN, it seems like Indiana is getting a lot of MX facilities.

Now if they can only get back that ZW mx facility @ EKI

BTW, where does IU and Purdue's football teams fly out of and what frames do they use'?



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 144, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5583 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 143):
BTW, where does IU and Purdue's football teams fly out of and what frames do they use'?

Purdue typically uses LAF and Miami Air. That said, I would love to see G4 run an LAF-SFB flight.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinejetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 145, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

IU flies out of BMG and charters a United 737-800.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 146, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 143):
Now if they can only get back that ZW mx facility @ EKI

ZW had an MX facility at FWA, too. FWA was a big 146 and ATP base for ZW, while EKI handled the smaller planes. The FWA Air Whisky hangar was later used by S5 for SAABs and is currently used by 9E.

Quoting jetskipper (Reply 145):

IU flies out of BMG and charters a United 737-800.

Did IU use CO prior to the UA merger?



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.