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DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE  
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6121 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8057 times:

I Noticed these appeared In the GDS this morning.....there might be more that I am missing

Looks to be weekly frequencies starting later this year.

MSPSJO 0740 1310
SJOMSP 1425 2000 on 752

JFKGUA 0830 1300
GUAJFK 1400 1945 on 73G

LAXBZE 0020 0700
BZELAX 1030 1350 on 738

SJO-MSP is a real surprise. other two are VFR heavy markets.

[Edited 2013-05-25 06:30:24]


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6121 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7706 times:

Well they WERE available for sale this morning.....now gone.......


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17443 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7677 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Thread starter):
JFKGUA 0830 1300
GUAJFK 1400 1945 on 73G

LAXBZE 0020 0700
BZELAX 1030 1350 on 738

Didn't they do these before?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6121 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7564 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Didn't they do these before?

I believe so....but different time, different Delta. And NW had done SJO from MSP I believe.

This time they have some VFR momentum in SJO GUA and BZE. Lots of MI folks have second homes in CR.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinejuanchito From Guatemala, joined Nov 2000, 1182 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7566 times:

Yes they did.

3 o 4 weekly GUA-JFK with 737-800. Didn't last even a year.
Don't remember frequency on BZE-LAX

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Didn't they do these before?



Chapin de corazon.
User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7515 times:

I noticed that they are also starting CMH-MCO this winter too.

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17443 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7492 times:

Quoting miaami (Reply 5):
I noticed that they are also starting CMH-MCO this winter too.

They do this in phases--I guess oil must be cheap enough to add it back this year 
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 3):
Lots of MI folks have second homes in CR.

If anything it'll be like MSPLIR, or MSPCUN: a zillion flights for FEB-APR and then nada.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7572 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7387 times:

I don't think MSP-SJO would work.

Is there a big ethnic or vacation market for LAX-BZE?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6121 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7311 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):
I don't think MSP-SJO would work.

Is there a big ethnic or vacation market for LAX-BZE?

Will be interesting to watch. DL has some good sales teams on the ground in CR, GUA and BZE now.
MSP-SJO should be able to work.

LAX-BZE: CA is Belize's number one source of tourists, and SoCal has the largest ethnic population of Belizeans outside of Belize. If they can get the VFR away from their AAdvantage and United they should do well. For sure, at least UA will respond (fare wise) as LAX feed was a huge component of their IAH-BZE flights.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7572 posts, RR: 43
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7268 times:

Thanks for the info on Belizeans in Cali. That provides the logic for this launch. I must say I still feel skeptical about MSP-SJO.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7242 times:

Cool to see some more LatAm expansion. If DL can make MSP-LIR work, I don't see why MSP-SJO wouldn't work. Costa Rica is a hot vacation destination these days!

Quoting miaami (Reply 5):
I noticed that they are also starting CMH-MCO this winter too.

They are starting a LOT of weekend only routes from MCO. Even in the summer, it looks like they are operating Saturday flights to OMA, MKE, IND, GRR, CMH, RIC, BDL, and CUN, in addition to their daily flights to LAX, LAS, SLC, MSP, DTW, CVG, MEM, ATL, RDU, LGA, JFK, and BOS. In the May editions of Sky magazine, they were also showing routes to AUS, MCI, MSY, SDF, BHM, PIT, and HPN. We'll have to see if those surface in the winter.



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6121 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7149 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 10):
They are starting a LOT of weekend only routes from MCO. Even in the summer, it looks like they are operating Saturday flights to OMA, MKE, IND, GRR, CMH, RIC, BDL, and CUN, in addition to their daily flights to LAX, LAS, SLC, MSP, DTW, CVG, MEM, ATL, RDU, LGA, JFK, and BOS. In the May editions of Sky magazine, they were also showing routes to AUS, MCI, MSY, SDF, BHM, PIT, and HPN. We'll have to see if those surface in the winter.

Looks like our buddy Enlira will be busy in the OAG thread this weekend.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2040 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7060 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):
I don't think MSP-SJO would work.

SY is flying this route currently on Sunday's only.



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7046 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 8):
LAX-BZE: CA is Belize's number one source of tourists, and SoCal has the largest ethnic population of Belizeans outside of Belize. If they can get the VFR away from their AAdvantage and United they should do well. For sure, at least UA will respond (fare wise) as LAX feed was a huge component of their IAH-BZE flights.

Why don't you prove this with actual data instead of making up number? There is no data to support this theory. Based on air traffic, it is very clear neither statement is true.



a.
User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6981 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):
I must say I still feel skeptical about MSP-SJO.

MSP-SJO should do fine. Due to perception of lawlessness, many Minnesotans have shifted their winter vacations from the traditional Mexico destinations to safe and politically stable Costa Rica. I have a friend that goes to Costa Rica 3-4x a year. It should be able to suppoer a 1x weekly flight.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17443 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6959 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 13):

Why don't you prove this with actual data instead of making up number?

It is a big Belizean community and a big leisure market, but a big Belizean market is still a handful of people per day.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25152 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6899 times:

Annual O&D from LAX -

SAL - 188,759
GUA - 175,216
SJO - 102,287
MGA - 40,315
BZE - 24,709

In other words LAX-BZE only averages 33 people per-day each-way.

In comparison 4x the size SJO has barely been able to maintains a LAX nonstop consistently.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4481 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6866 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Didn't they do these before?

Correct. DL GUA-JFK operated in 2008 for a little while.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 3):
And NW had done SJO from MSP I believe

That was NW MSP-LIR.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 8):
CA is Belize's number one source of tourists

Is the [California-Belize] market larger than [South Florida-Belize] ? So, why didn't DL sustain the BZE-LAX frequencies in the past?




.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):
I must say I still feel skeptical about MSP-SJO.

Perhaps limited weekly frequencies would be enough to attend that market.
For example, NW MSP-LIR 1x weekly operated seasonally in Costa Rica prior to 2010. Furthermore, UA IAD-SJO and UA ORD-SJO just started in April allowing no more than one weekly flight by now.

Regards



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6121 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6836 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 13):
Why don't you prove this with actual data instead of making up number? There is no data to support this theory. Based on air traffic, it is very clear neither statement is true.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
In other words LAX-BZE only averages 33 people per-day each-way.

Look, MAH....sometime ago you said DL would never expand out of LAX to C. America. Then you were proven wrong with LAX-SJO. Then when I suggested LAX-BZE was coming, You said would never happen. It now is.
Please be humble enough to accept when you were wrong.

And you guys will be wrong again when DL proves that it can work.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 13):
Why don't you prove this with actual data instead of making up number? There is no data to support this theory. Based on air traffic, it is very clear neither statement is true.

Arrivals (foreign passport holders BZE) State: CA 2011: ....36,108 2012: 39,288 source: Belize Tourism Board

Registered Belizeans Living in USA: State: CA: 2010 17,920 Source: Gov't of Belize.
That is what the GOB has as lawfully residing Belizeans living in SoCal. They count it every 10 years at Census time.

IF anybody wants the full data dump, PM your email and I would be happy to share with you the audited data.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
It is a big Belizean community and a big leisure market, but a big Belizean market is still a handful of people per day.

Clealy DL thinks otherwise.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6121 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6788 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 17):
Is the [California-Belize] market larger than [South Florida-Belize] ? So, why didn't DL sustain the BZE-LAX frequencies in the past?

DL pulled the plug on the whole LAX experiment. S FLA market is being driven by business traffic as well as transfers to Europe and Caribbean.

Please don't forget alot of the SAL-BZE traffic was LAX transfer traffic too....LAX-BZE was flowing over SAL, IAH, DFW and to a lesser extent CLT, MIA and ATL. Will be interesting to watch DL try to consolidate it now.

But DL are already running ads on "Belize Radio" in SoCal....so clearly this time they have a plan.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6465 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6700 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
Look, MAH....sometime ago you said DL would never expand out of LAX to C. America. Then you were proven wrong with LAX-SJO. Then when I suggested LAX-BZE was coming, You said would never happen. It now is.
Please be humble enough to accept when you were wrong.

When pigs fly


User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 867 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6680 times:
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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 8):
LAX-BZE: CA is Belize's number one source of tourists


Nice to know that BZE will soon be an easy transfer away from The Bay Area as well!

I know AS had been studying LAX-BZE and SJO for years. Their loss. Hopefully there will be an AS codeshare on the DL metal.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):
Thanks for the info on Belizeans in Cali.


What? There are Belizeans in Colombia? (sorry, pet peeve about calling my home state"Cali")  

Tomas SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6121 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6635 times:

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 21):
Hopefully there will be an AS codeshare on the DL metal.

The way i understand AS international codeshares work is that generally they only have a codeshare on and international flight when AS also has operations to that city. MEX for example.

Though I guess it is probably not set in stone if they want it badly enough.

Something to do with lawyers I presume   



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4481 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6635 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Annual O&D from LAX -

SAL - 188,759
GUA - 175,216
SJO - 102,287
MGA - 40,315
BZE - 24,709

I found an interesting point here.
The non-stop TA/LR [SJO-LAX] 4x weekly was just suspended in May 2013. Authorities of the airline stated that all the routes running unprofitable out of SJO were suspended and it clearly demonstrated how TA/LR [SJO-LAX] was struggling.
With that being said, if DL LAX-BZE would happen, it may operate with very limited frequencies from the very beginning.
There are many routes between the USA and Central America following this pattern: AA DFW-PTY, US PHL-SJO seasonally, UA ORD-SJO, UA IAD-SJO, UA EWR-GUA, UA EWR-SAL, SY MSP-LIR seasonally, UA EWR-BZE and so forth.
With all due respect, I found exaggerated the argument: "GUA-JFK and LAX-BZE are heavy VFR markets"

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1936 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6583 times:

Costa Rica seems to be a popular place right now for people up here. I don't have high hopes for this flight though. Seems a bit too long and thin to stick around.

25 yellowtail : It is happening.....it is loaded, but they seem to be playing with the inventory right now and as such have zeros in them. THis morning it had invent
26 Post contains images LAXintl : In fairness if anyone was a betting person the viability of SJO also out of LAX for DL is a big question mark, especially since they are dumping larg
27 yellowtail : And yet they are starting it. Remember it is always not about the potential LFs or market size, it is about yields. There are lots of huge markets wi
28 SJOtoLIR : Delta Air Lines moved forward their intended plans. DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly with 757 is due to start on July 01st. . TA/LR [SJO-LAX] 4x weekly as non-st
29 Mah4546 : Don't make things up. I said they aren't viable markets and DL (or AA or UA for that matter) wouldn't make it work. I stand by my statement. I did sa
30 LAXintl : Yes that says a lot. The route never quite grew. Also look at AA how they failed at LAX-SJO as well.
31 ASFlyer : Conversely, There are millions in California that weren't actually born there. I'm sure a number of those visit Belize. They wouldn't be counted in t
32 Post contains images yellowtail : Is that a serious statement? Now I fear your are making stuff up (as you put it). You have no idea what you are talking about. Lots of Belizeans born
33 SJOtoLIR : Yes, two times. The first was during the early 90s and stopping at SAL, if I recall correctly. . Well, CM PTY-LAX is 19x weekly at this time, but I k
34 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Is that really a good sign given their track record? Even in *that* specific market alone?
35 Mah4546 : Yes, that's a serious statement. A U.S. passport has your birthplace listed on it, not where you live. If one lives in California, and was born in Fl
36 capejet : But isnt the fact that DL is adding a nonstop flight from LAX to Belize going to guarantee that the market contraction reverses itself and the market
37 yellowtail : You are what you travel on. When I travel on my UK passport I am counted as a british citizen entering the USA. When a Belizean american enters Beliz
38 YYZAMS : Lots of Canadians also would connect through MSP in onestop to get to SJO if the fare is right....[Edited 2013-05-25 20:07:13]
39 Post contains links danild : I work at a travel agency in Minneapolis and specially last year we got a lot of requests to go to safer places than Mexico (specially Cancun), they
40 yellowtail : SJO is a much different draw than CUN....and the higher priced flights are indicative of that.....having said that....$1200 is a bargain to the $1500
41 SJOtoLIR : I think the MSP-SJO service would operate on a seasonal basis. Just for illustrative purposes, the cheapest fare on the seasonal SY MSP-LIR starts fr
42 SJOtoLIR : I did a research at amadeus.net and all the intended flights are loaded: DL LAX-BZE; 1x weekly on Saturdays DL JFK-GUA; 1x weekly on Saturdays DL MSP-
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