Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta Announces Phase III Of JFK T4  
User currently offlineAtlflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 19182 times:

"We're going to keep investing in New York," says Anderson. "We're doing another $300 million in investment here and one day we want to build the third phase of this facility."

The third phase will allow Delta to consolidate all of its operations in terminal 4, says Gail Grimmett, senior vice-president for New York, on the sidelines of the event. The airline will still operate some select mainline flights from terminal 2 after phase two opens, she explains.

Delta is in discussions with the PANYNJ and JFK IAT regarding the third phase but has yet to determine a timeline the project, she says.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...sion-announces-third-phase-386342/

Also, from a 2010 document from the PA of NY/NJ, it looks like they are on schedule...Phase Iii will be a head house expansion and expansion of Concourse A.

http://www.panynj.gov/corporate-info...ion/pdf/aug_5_2010_ops_Minutes.pdf

154 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 19176 times:

Phase III should look something like this minus the old Term2 (now C60-70) and the walkway


User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 19001 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 1):
Phase III should look something like this minus the old Term2 (now C60-70) and the walkway

Negative. The pic you show above reflects what a completion of Phase 2 will look like except there will be no T4-T2 connector. Phase 3 will include new elements not reflected in your pic.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3476 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 18937 times:

Very cool indeed.

T2 can not be long for this world.

I am noticing on the AirTrain that they have all checkin for Delta at T4 now.

That means that a good chunk of people are taking a bus.

This is not good...and I am sure they will move to get those flights into T4 sooner rather than later


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 18945 times:

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 2):

I thought phase III is the extension of T4A, which is reflected in the above picture. What else is phase III supposed to include?


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 18924 times:

This picture show the expanded Concourse A, and as I mentioned Minus the walkway and connector

User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 18853 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 5):
This picture show the expanded Concourse A, and as I mentioned Minus the walkway and connector

Yes, but you are calling this the completed Phase 3 when this is actually the completed Phase 2. There are new renderings coming soon from PANYNJ / JFK IAT which will reflect a completed Phase 3.


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 18816 times:

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 6):
Yes, but you are calling this the completed Phase 3

Actually I'm not.
What I wrote on the top of the picture is:
"Phase III should look something like this minus the old Term2 (now C60-70) and the walkway"

Again this picture is the only one for now that gives an IDEA what phase III should look like with
an EXPANDED Concourse A thats all.


User currently offlineAtlflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 18698 times:

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 6):

How is this completed Phase II? Concourse A is not being touched during Phase II...


User currently offlineAtlflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 18653 times:

Here is what a completed Phase II will look like...

http://delta.thedigitalcenter.com/as.../29317-jfk-with-phase-ii-expansion


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 18620 times:

Quoting Atlflyer (Reply 8):
How is this completed Phase II? Concourse A is not being touched during Phase II...

So, which one is Concourse "B" and which is "A", again? Is JFK designating them backwards?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineAtlflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 18554 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 10):

In the photo, Concourse A is on the right, B on the left.

They are not backwards. When you enter the Terminal, Concourse A starts on the left and B on the right.


User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 18399 times:

Quoting Atlflyer (Reply 8):
How is this completed Phase II? Concourse A is not being touched during Phase II...

Forget T4A. Focusing exclusively on T4B, the rendering above reflects a completed Phase 2, minus the connector to T2. More renderings coming soon to clarify all.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12556 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 18398 times:

I think the most disputable comment in the article is:

Quote:

The opening today begins to level the playing field between Delta, American Airlines and United Airlines in terms of terminal facilities at New York's three airports. Terminal 3 at JFK has long been derided a decrepit and functionally obsolete, despite its historical importance as the Pan Am Worldport when it opened in 1960.

I'd say it's a tiny step, no where near large enough to say it's starting to level the playing field with AA and UA's facilities in NYC.

We're only now seeing the completion of Phase I, and Phase II is described as "The 6,968 square metre phase two includes the addition of an 11-gate regional aircraft facility on concourse B.", thusly:

Quoting Atlflyer (Reply 9):
Here is what a completed Phase II will look like...

http://delta.thedigitalcenter.com/as.../29317-jfk-with-phase-ii-expansion

so another $175 mil and a few more years added just to put 11 RJ gates at the end of the horrendously long Concourse B, which already generates comments such as:

Quote:

"I did need a plane ride to get from the entrance to here today," says US congressman Joseph Crowley, joking about the walk to gate B41 - the last on the concourse - at the event.

And then the Phase III which is truly needed to get to approach that level playing field, which should take the same order of magnitude of spending as did Phase I, i.e. $1.2B, and result in a facility far better than today yet IMHO still inferior to what AA already has at JFK and UA already has at EWR, in terms of layout and efficiency.

In the mean time we read:

Quote:

United announced at least $150 million in investments to the check-in, gate and baggage systems in terminal C at Newark Liberty International airport on 21 May. The move was seen by many industry followers as an attempt to distract from Delta's terminal 4 opening.

This shows that the competition can chose to improve their already superior facilities with far less spending than DL is having to do just to appear to (but IMHO not quite reach) the level playing field.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinealitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 18209 times:

Thunderclouds are making the sound "tram.


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17730 times:

Quote:

"I did need a plane ride to get from the entrance to here today," says US congressman Joseph Crowley, joking about the walk to gate B41 - the last on the concourse - at the event.

I am amazed at how many people complain about walking. You'll be on a plane for the next several hours. A walk will do you and your waistline some good.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17548 times:




Sorry.. it's just a little difficult to get all excited about a 1960s design reintroduced in 2013.

The comment by the congressman of needing a plane to get from the entrance to the gate is already on everyone's mind and will become a slogan of sorts to be use against Delta by rivals in the future - count on it.

BN747

[Edited 2013-05-25 15:28:20]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineAtlflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 17324 times:

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 12):

This is not a completed phase II?

http://delta.thedigitalcenter.com/as.../29317-jfk-with-phase-ii-expansion


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 17301 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 16):

The comment by the congressman of needing a plane to get from the entrance to the gate is already on everyone's mind will become slogan of sorts to use against Delta by rivals - count on it.

Oh, do you mean the same way that competitors have created slogans about the long walk at ORD when someone has on UA has to go from C31 to gate B2 or someone on AA that has to go from gate G21 to L8.

No competitor is going to waste their time and dollars on something so trivial, especially when all large carriers face this issue at one or more of their hubs. This is called making an issue out of a non-issue.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 17195 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
No competitor is going to waste their time and dollars on something so trivial, especially when all large carriers face this issue at one or more of their hubs. This is called making an issue out of a non-issue.

No competitor???

..you must be joking! All carriers these days are on the Southwest level of thinking .. aka anything goes and no one is above the fray!

The 1st commercial will show an 17yo kid with a backpack checking in... and he's sent a text saying 'congrats, now that you're 65, you're eligible for social security" .. as we see an old man checking in to board the pax version of a space shuttle!

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlinePanAm1971 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 17139 times:

I can't get over how boring this all looks. It's as though it was designed by the Borg.

User currently offlineYYZAMS From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 16477 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
I am amazed at how many people complain about walking. You'll be on a plane for the next several hours. A walk will do you and your waistline some good.

haha! Agreed! Next thing you know they want the plane to drop them off at their house!


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3751 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 16316 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
Oh, do you mean the same way that competitors have created slogans about the long walk at ORD when someone has on UA has to go from C31 to gate B2 or someone on AA that has to go from gate G21 to L8.

Or worse... the walk on UA where you go from Gate F11A to Gate C21 after your connecting flight into ORD was delayed by an hour and 15 minutes, where you have 20 minutes to make your connection from F11A to C21.

Trust me - it's bad, and I had to do it once, almost missing my connection in the process.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15917 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
Oh, do you mean the same way that competitors have created slogans about the long walk at ORD when someone has on UA has to go from C31 to gate B2 or someone on AA that has to go from gate G21 to L8.

No, it's a little different at ORD because everyone's walks are about the same. New Yorkers are used to short walks at all three airports, so a big terminal is something that is basically new (even EWR C--the largest single terminal in NYC--is compact compared to, say, MSP Lindbergh or DTW MacNamara). Will it make much difference? I can't argue that it will; maybe the odd passenger who flies only to Los Angeles will prefer UA for the ease of Terminal 7 as opposed to Terminal 4, but how many passengers fly to only one place?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15703 times:

Quoting Atlflyer (Reply 17):
This is not a completed phase II

Yes, that is a completed Phase 2.

Phase 3 will include some changes to be reflected in new renderings.


25 rwy04lga : EWR is not in NYC. Saying it over and over will not make it so.
26 EricR : Yup.......this is such a big issue that it is going to cause DL to lose significant share in NY because someone has to walk to their gate (heaven for
27 questions : When Phase 3, the extension of T4A, will there be an underground walkway between concourses A and B? Or will connecting passengers have to walk throug
28 jfklganyc : I personally think the AA mess with the escalator down to walkway to escalator up is much worse. Annoying and slow. And then you get to the midfield
29 ikramerica : Agreed. The first and last time I was at AA JFK after the rebuild I was frustrated by that design, but even worse, AA had decided to sell the entire
30 mnik101 : What strikes me as odd is that $1.2 billion, just to extend T4! and it just a really long concourse extension, not a new terminal. I could understand
31 PIEAvantiP180 : $1.2B did not just buy 9 extra gates at the end of B concourse. The terminal building it self went thru a renovation and expansion. Also a very good
32 jfklganyc : They did quite a bit of work to the head house, especially on the lower level and AirTrain level Expanded customs and immigration area, new baggage cl
33 Cubsrule : Not at all. Had you bothered to read the rest of my post, you'd see that I came to the same conclusion.
34 BN747 : I'm fit to dash it back n forth, but many people will not be, and trust me on this travellers fit or not - notice long corridors at certain airports!
35 LDVAviation : As the US airlines return to competing with products, rather than on price, the layout and appearance of their facilities will matter more and more t
36 mayor : Isn't that the plan? Isn't that why this was Phase I and we have Phases II and III to come to do exactly what you've described?
37 PIEAvantiP180 : Dude no need for personal attacks. You might need to go back to an English course or two and learn reading comprehension. Where in that paragraph did
38 mnik101 : Phase 1 alone was $1.2 billion. and it was just an expansion and rehab job of T4. To me it still seem like a lot of money for a pretty modest gain, e
39 Cubsrule : The trouble is that New York is, well, New York and as nice as RDU and SMF (and DTW, IND, JAX and all the rest) might be, if I need to go to NYC, the
40 RobertS975 : I have been through the DL JFK facility many times and here were my peeves in no particular order: often arriving on an RJ from BOS, I detested having
41 BN747 : What the hell are you talking 'personal attack'??? I've said nothing to you about you in any shape or form! Now that is a personal attack - directed
42 PIEAvantiP180 : I can admit when I'm wrong, I do apologize how I reacted. I interpreted that statement as that you were taking a pop shot at me for starting that uni
43 BN747 : Thank you, I was fully endorsing your point..which is the spot on truth about NY Labor Cost. I had a buddy who worked on every bridge (upkeep and ove
44 questions : I don't understand all the complaining about the length of "finger" T4B. It appears to be about the same length as half of ATL's concourse A or B whic
45 Post contains links and images BN747 : You couldn't be more wrong .. 'same length as HALF of ATL's A or B? View Large View MediumPhoto © Rainer Bexten Count the number of jets for half (o
46 cokepopper : Do you have any numbers? Delta's JFK Term T-4B looks 1/2 the size of Delta's Detroit terminal
47 PIEAvantiP180 : Rough estimate using google earth and its measuring feature shows about 2200ft from start to end of T4B concourse, and that will become longer once t
48 FlyPNS1 : Try going from a gate like A1 to B30 in ATL. Or try going from E30 to B12 in CLT. Or try going from C1 to D20 in IAD. I'm not saying it's ideal, but
49 panamair : Thanks for the facts! I did the walk this past weekend (both international arrivals, as well as departures), the 'feeling' of the length will be diff
50 Josh32121 : Another thing: New Yorkers are accustomed to walking much more than people who live in other cities (in the U.S., at least). I vote moot point.
51 EricR : I agree with you that travelers will notice it is a long concourse only IF they are one of the few that have to travel the full length of the concour
52 MSPNWA : Correct. I think some fail to realize that ATL has the potential for the longest concourse walk in the DL system. Combine that with a congested, util
53 BN747 : If you look...you're quoting my reply 45... I was countering a claim made about ATL - where are you pulling DTW from ATL? Again...my reply #45 which
54 mayor : Not sure about that. I've heard that MSP isn't exactly a pleasant connecting experience. Not my experience, as I haven't been there. It's just what I
55 FlyPNS1 : And compared to T3, this will have eliminated many of those problems so it is an improvement. The key is that T3 was legitimately scaring away some h
56 rwy04lga : And you might consider a spelling course. I missed a connection when traveling between the middle of F to G21.
57 luckyone : I'm sorry, this is hilarious. People complaining about long walks vs. people complaining about cramped concourses. Well which way do you want it? Do y
58 PIEAvantiP180 : I was just replaying to both posts with one. Since you mentioned ATL and post 46 mentioned DTW I decided to post lenght for all three terminals JFK,
59 EricR : I read your full post, but I don't think your read my full post because I specifically referenced the tangent you went off on with regard to ORD.
60 TeamInTheSky : Hi All, I have read through this, and as I have commented in the past, I feel like the walking argument is ridiculous. I hardly believe that people wo
61 panamair : The RJ gates will be added as part of Phase II. Construction start is imminent, and scheduled to be completed by mid-2015. They've applied and are wa
62 blue100 : In general, I would have to agree with the above. However, I will say that after my poor experience connecting at CDG from 2E to 2D last summer, I wi
63 LDVAviation : A long walk is a symptom of the real problem, and not the problem itself. The problem is that the old T4 is already outdated despite all of its "newn
64 MSPNWA : I've done the Google Earth measurements, and I'm near certain that ATL has the longest potential unassisted walk of the DL hubs. An example would be
65 Post contains images mayor : Thanks, perfessor.......I'll be sure to pick up a copy next time I have insomnia. What did you expect DL to build? I would think most travellers are
66 Cubsrule : Never mind most travelers; I'd say the same of most a.netters. It's not like the other hubs in the northeast (EWR, IAD, PHL) are great facilities, th
67 Revelation : I think the building itself is in line with the expectations of the public, and as you note, a great improvement over the T3 'experience' which indee
68 Post contains images FSDan : I had to walk from near the end of F to halfway down A on my last connection through MSP. It took something like 15-20 minutes with the help of the m
69 Cubsrule : Not as much so at PHL, as (like at CLT) E-Jets use mainline gates.
70 jetlanta : What I don't understand is the failure of people to comprehend that this adequate and functional upgrade cost $1.3B. The next phase will cost over $2
71 Post contains images peanuts : Pffffffffffff....(I hear ego's being deflated). Most of these posters sit on the couch thinking they have important opinions not realizing it doesn't
72 Post contains images Cubsrule : (and I agree with the rest of your post too, but no sense quoting all of it) One thing that hasn't been discussed here is that cost-effectiveness is
73 richierich : In all my days, I have never heard of an airline using the length of the walk to the gate in their advertising pitch. And it isn't going to happen at
74 LDVAviation : And, you should not pretend that you know what the other alternatives cost or that you know what can be done with $2 billion dollars. The projected c
75 TeamInTheSky : With all due respect, you must not be a shareholder of DL or a taxpayer of NYC, because as a shareholder, I simply wanted improved functionality, whi
76 FlyPNS1 : How do you know that Jetlanta doesn't know what the alternatives cost? It would have been a problem no matter who owned the gates, because there woul
77 MCOAviationFan : Jet, are you open to sharing the reasons why the parallel concourse option was not selected or is that confidential? It would be very interesting to
78 jetlanta : LDV, I had fairly intimate knowledge of the options through the mid-2000's. Even in that period, anything that was "new" construction was astronomica
79 Post contains images OA412 : Ugh some of the comments in this thread are just ridiculous, especially coming from those who haven't actually visited the new facility. What I've see
80 FlyASAGuy2005 : I remember when the whole T4 extension came about. There was a certain NYC know-it-all that proclaimed B.S. They said that they were JUST at a port a
81 Cubsrule : As you acknowledge, though, there's a difference between "masterpiece" and functional. If we look at DL's facilities in a place like SFO, they are no
82 jetlanta : Is there a lot of natural light on the concourses at T8 at JFK? I've never been, but photos don't seem to reveal a lot of windows. Certainly the head
83 Cubsrule : I think it's a similar amount to DTW/North (both are less than the MacNamara Terminal, which I expect you know pretty well).
84 AT : By the way I landed on Sunday night in Terminal 2 at JFK and wanted to take the air-side bus over to check out the new Terminal 4 area but they requir
85 LDVAviation : Higher ceilings and wider concourses? If that is how Delta saw things, then so much for Richard Anderson's claim that he wants Delta to be an iconic
86 MSPNWA : Then I'll fix that for you right now. I avoid tight connections at ATL unlike other airports. One reason is the long time it takes to get from one ga
87 Revelation : I think it's grand enough and is a short term improvement. I think we're all agreeing mega-bucks were spent. And what of the cost effectiveness of sp
88 Post contains images BN747 : Let me begin by saying this... T4 - long known as the International Arrivals Building IAB (which name I've always preferred) has always been the ancho
89 jetlanta : Good lord. It is one of SEVEN individual terminals at JFK. It barely houses 20 total gates! If you want a palace, then rip then entire JFK mid-field
90 Cubsrule : This is where the whole argument falls apart. What does it matter that IND or DTW has a nicer terminal than JFK Terminal 4? It's not like Indianapoli
91 blue100 : I am not familiar with the construction progress for LHR T5. However, I have flown through facility on numerous occasions. While the facility itself
92 alitalia744 : What's the big deal here? Have we gotten so childish that we can't do anything without pulling out and comparing sizes? Are we that immature that we c
93 jfklganyc : Do you remember the IAB????? What the heck are you pining for? The 50 year old arch? The old alarm clock style arrivals board? The PA systems that di
94 mayor : It's also not true.......the "Widget" scheme was from about the mid 60s.......then you had the "Ron Allen" livery in '97, then "Wavy Gravy" in 2000 a
95 LDVAviation : There were political, environmental, and logistical constraints at LHR too. NYC is not the only city in the world where the cost of doing business is
96 FlyPNS1 : And that cost and the cost of doing business at LHR is going to to severe damage to BA over the next 30 years. Fancy terminals aren't going to woo a
97 Revelation : Trend setter? You did see what B6 just built at JFK T5, didn't you? That's the trend that DL is following at NYC, a quite bland one. DL went from mis
98 jfklganyc : It is one of the highest rated terminals in the world. Not bland at all. And Delta has copied it at LGA and now at JFK...they are smart to do that. W
99 jetlanta : This. The other thing I find fascinating is that all Delta is doing is finishing a facility that is already built. Everyone has always known that T4
100 jfklganyc : See, you undermine your argument with barbs like that. There is not a thing wrong with T5. T8 wasn't finished for good reason. 9/11. I believe the DL
101 msp747 : I think MetLife Stadium proves how expensive it is to build in NYC. It's the second most expensive stadium in NFL history, yet it doesn't have a roof
102 jetlanta : My point wasn't to denigrate T5 and T8. My point was that the people railing against T4 aren't holding those facilities to the same standard. In fact
103 luckyone : What is silly is thinking that when the bottom line means the difference between whether or not you stay in business people are worrying about archit
104 Post contains images BN747 : Stand in line and still haven't figured out how to get pass the V.I.P. entrance yet? ..anyway, I don't have 3 airports... I live in SoCal. But oh, dr
105 delta2ual : LOL. You've noticed that too? Everything on this site is about size and comparison. I only comment on DL because I spent the majority of my life ther
106 jfklganyc : Who is filling up that huge regional concourse on the site of the current T2 Not to mention you just created 5 or 6 single taxiway alley entranceways
107 jetlanta : That thing is an operational nightmare that no one would ever build. And even if they did, no one needs that many gates! If no one needs them, who on
108 Post contains images rwy04lga : Make sure to have the money in the bank when you write the check. Mine is! T-5 looks like a Home Depot and they should put up a big mirror on the bla
109 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : Why I respect you. Right is right and wrong is wrong. No. The extension of T4 was shelved by Delta in 2000. At that point, I think DL was not sure wh
110 LDVAviation : And, what architectural standard was that? At what time, were piers as long as T4 (after the Phase II build out) the standard? They certainly were no
111 alfa164 : So... is there something that makes your opinion more important than "these posters"??? Meet me. I actively avoid BKK because the terminal - while a
112 TeamInTheSky : BN, that is a very interesting picture you posted. However, as an accountant, I can tell you have not done many ROI studies in your time on this plan
113 Post contains images rwy04lga : I see the Pan Am saucer was recycled to become the 'A380 pavilion'
114 BN747 : oh au contraire, I'm very well aware of what the Wall Street banksters have been pulling off and my did at them is the same as my quip towards Mr Tri
115 EricR : I'm sorry, but I have to ask you this question......Did you by chance notice the T4B concourse that you drew in your airport diagram? It's the same l
116 NYCAdvantage : What is the time frame to complete the third face of T4? since Delta's lease on T2 ends o 2020, I imagine by 2017-18 should be done. I feel Delta will
117 Revelation : It is bland. Your comment reminds me of the old expression: "Eat (poo): A billion flies can't be wrong!". However it is also as I said what people ex
118 yra : I am amazed by the comments here. The new T4 is a 1000% improvement over the old setup, and the eventual goal of consolidating all operations to one t
119 Revelation : Right, but 100% of nothing is noting, 100% improvement of an unacceptable solution is what exactly? Right, but we're seeing $1.2B spent to get to the
120 mayor : That may be, but it was my understanding that this is just a temporary setup until completion. And who's to say that Phase I is an "unacceptable solu
121 Revelation : I was saying that pre-P1 was the unacceptable solution. Apologies if this was unclear...
122 mayor : Well, I think we ALL knew that.....there have been many on this thread that seem to think that all three phases are "unacceptable solutions". Anyway,
123 BN747 : Why any person (other than a busy photog/spotter) would walk a lengthy terminal when a intra-terminal train is available (in my mockup as oppossed to
124 alfa164 : Exactly. Or, perhaps more correctly, the imagination and determination to build a first-class product. And that attitude, sadly, is why airlines from
125 Post contains images rwy04lga : Not only that, they did not overshoot the mark!
126 Post contains images Revelation : LOL! Sounds harsh to me. Clearly many US carriers would say they have the goal of such a standard, but clearly aren't spending up to that level on fa
127 jfklganyc : I dont think so. My relative was contracted to scope and install the phone/IT lines for the T4 extension. The account was closed out in November/Dece
128 PIEAvantiP180 : One terminal in a number of DL hubs won't determine if they failed to achieve an iconic brand recognition they aspire to. Everything is in the eye of
129 boswashsprstar : I wonder if DL will want/need another club in T4 once the Phase III extension is complete and T2 is torn down. Presumably all non-DL carriers will be
130 mayor : It hasn't even been open for a week and we're already condemning DL for what they have. I would think that we'd have to wait awhile longer to make a
131 questions : I'd probably win. Do we know estimated start/completion dates of phases 2 and 3?
132 LDVAviation : This was said about an east coast terminal this week: "The terminal is (still) a state-of-the-art facility (with) spacious gates and modern behind-the
133 questions : My question was VERY relevant to the thread topic, "Delta Announces Phase III of JFK T4. There is no need for your rude, immature comment.
134 mayor : My whole point is that isn't it a little premature to be criticizing DL's terminal, considering the operation is only a week in?[Edited 2013-05-31 08:
135 BN747 : Why? Is it the same as critiquing a newly unveiled car made by a manufacturer about to put it in showrooms or go on sale? Or critiquing a new livery
136 Revelation : I think that's consistent with what I've been saying - DL's working hard to try to catch up to where the competitors are now today, and the competito
137 jfklganyc : Catch up with what? AA was the largest airline at JFK 10 years ago. Now they are a distant, distant third behind B6 and DL. AA gave up slots at JFK,
138 LDVAviation : The current slot regime cannot last forever. It is detrimental to economic growth. When it goes, DL will be at a disadvantage because long piers are
139 FlyPNS1 : Yes it can. Airspace capacity in NYC is unlikely to make any significant improvements. As is, there are probably too many slots given out during the
140 luckyone : Where do you propose the runway necessary to overcome it be placed? You keep saying that. Yet airports get larger and concourses and piers get longer
141 LDVAviation : Again, economic imperatives will eventually prevail. Otherwise, economic activity will bypass New York. Piers are getting longer, but they are also b
142 luckyone : The PEK T3 APM only takes one between piers. They still require a lot of subsequent walking. Also, the new terminals in Dubai do not have APMs in the
143 cokepopper : All this talk of the "so long of a walk" .....seriously ? Maybe if more Americans would put the cheeseburger down and walked more, we wouldn't have th
144 Post contains links jetlanta : You don't understand the NYC airport capacity situation at all, do you? Give this a read, then come back and talk. While you are reading it, take a l
145 Cubsrule : Isn't NYC both larger and less fragmented than it ever has been? It seems that both might have bright futures.
146 jetlanta : I think that both can do very well as demand begins to permanently outstrip capacity. What I am pushing back at is the ludicrous idea that T4's longe
147 mayor : Ok......so you're criticizing BEFORE any and all bugs get worked out of it.........is that better? Can you condemn an a/c before it ever gets off the
148 EricR : Why would you want to be number 1 in the NYC market? Why waste all of those assets and resources on a competitive, delay proned market? Wouldn't it b
149 FlyPNS1 : Slots at JFK during the peak time (3-8pm) have been around for decades, yet economic imperatives have done little to change this. The only thing econ
150 jfklganyc : Thank you for that reality check. Because it is the largest air market in the US. And there are more people living in the borough of Queens (1/5 of N
151 LDVAviation : When did this become about buying the world or taking over the world? I was simply suggesting that AA could trade excess DCA slots for more JFK slots
152 NYCAdvantage : When you honestly answer this questions it will give you an idea of Delta satisfaction on the project Will Delta customers be happier at T4 than on T3
153 ocracoke : What exactly is the point here? In 1990, AA was at a competitive disadvantage on that one transatlantic route, so it went out and spent $455 million
154 mayor : Try to be objective and explain to us how you came up with that theory? Betcha can't...............
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta Announces New Service From JFK! posted Wed Jun 2 2004 00:44:59 by Flairport
Delta Announces Details Of JFK Improvements posted Wed Aug 11 2010 07:44:51 by OA412
Delta JFK T4 Ops posted Mon Jan 28 2013 11:08:46 by airfrancejfk
Delta JFK T4 Extension As A T3 Replacement posted Wed Jan 11 2012 07:23:47 by boswashsprstar
Delta 777 And 330 Routes Out Of JFK? posted Sat Mar 13 2010 06:54:21 by Mudboy
Delta Announces New JFK-Central America Flights posted Thu Jun 28 2007 15:12:25 by Panamair
Chances Of JFK Surpassing SLC As Delta's #3 Hub posted Fri Jun 23 2006 21:31:12 by 1337Delta764
Delta Announces JFK-BOM And JFK-ACC posted Mon Jun 19 2006 12:58:29 by Panamair
Delta 757s To Europe, 777s Out Of JFK posted Sat Mar 11 2000 20:42:03 by Jet Setter
JFK T4-T2 Bus posted Thu May 23 2013 07:20:25 by ezra