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PAL Set To Land In Sao Paulo Via LAX  
User currently offlinedforce1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11963 times:

Philippine Airlines announced today that it is in the process of making preparations to launch flights to Sao Paulo, Brazil via Los Angeles. The President of Philippine Airlines, Ramon Ang, said that the airline is already processing regulatory approvals and that they are awaiting clearance to launch the route.

Read More Here: http://www.philippineflightnetwork.c...ppine-airlines-set-to-land-in.html

This is a surprise! While it is definitely the best choice, they had us believing they were going to route through Africa or the Middle East! But good for PAL for coming to their senses!

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11971 times:

How does this affect AA's slot application for LAX-GRU?

User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11926 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 1):

Certainly won't help AA yields once/if they launch the route.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2113 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11890 times:

Would the Philippines still being Cat. 2 have any effect on getting clearance to launch?

User currently offlinedforce1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11862 times:

I have also read conflicting reports that PAL may be using their own aircraft to GRU OR they will be code-sharing with a South American carrier who will be operating the flight from LAX. Has anyone heard any rumours from South America? I doubt that PAL would consider a codeshare with American...

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5334 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11787 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 3):
Would the Philippines still being Cat. 2 have any effect on getting clearance to launch?

   Adding a new route from LAX sure sounds to me like an action not allowed under the Philippines' Cat II status. (Even as part of a code-share arrangement?)

But then this wouldn't be the first time we've heard proposals/plans for new service by PAL's current President that seem to completely ignore the country's FAA Safety status. (Or, at least, he seems to regard Cat II as some minor inconvenience that will be dealt with any day now. And so far, despite some rumors that surface every so often, there seems little evidence that the Philippines is on the verge of returning to Cat I.)

bb


User currently offlineLurveBus From Philippines, joined Mar 2007, 286 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11706 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 5):
And so far, despite some rumors that surface every so often, there seems little evidence that the Philippines is on the verge of returning to Cat I

Actually, we've seen some positive signs. For one, the ICAO has already lifted its significant safety concerns on the Philippines.

The thing they're awaiting now is the FAA's move. They have the option of adopting ICAO's findings, or conducting their own audit. We'll see what they decide.

That aside, I believe this is going to be a codeshare arrangement. I was told by people processing the approvals that PAL metal will NOT be used between LAX and GRU.

[Edited 2013-05-26 09:45:49]

User currently offlineMHG From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11633 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 3):
Would the Philippines still being Cat. 2 have any effect on getting clearance to launch?

Yes, as long Cat II rating is in effect no changes in equipment and routes/destinations is permitted.

But - the intended start date is somewhere in 2014 AFAIK. So, still some time left to have FAA return the Philippines back into Cat I ...



I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
User currently offlineryu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11578 times:

But both Brazil and Philippine citizens need transit visas for the US.

This service is going to be a pain compared to other routings going via countries that allow sterile transit.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3678 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11551 times:

The only way this is going to work is if AA goes out empty-handed out the current US-Brazil frequency proceeding. In the end, PAL is not going for the Philippines-Brazil traffic, but rather for the Brazil-US traffic.

User currently offlinedforce1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11477 times:

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 8):
But both Brazil and Philippine citizens need transit visas for the US. This service is going to be a pain compared to other routings going via countries that allow sterile transit.

I agree that PAL is going for the US-Brazil market. It could also market to Filipinos who already reside in the US who can take advantage of visa free entry into Brazil. Also, while it might be a pain, if someone in the Philippines will be able to afford to put up the cash for a ticket to Brazil, it's likely their pockets are deep enough that they have been to the US multiple times and obtaining a visa should not be a challenge. I can't imagine this flight is going to be cheap.

CATII is certainly an issue but I think Ramon Ang is truly optimistic they will get CAT1 by the end of 2014 which is the target for launch of this service. Although, I am somewhat puzzled by a conflicting rumour that suggested that PAL may use its A340 because I thought they intend to switch the North American services to Boeing 777 once they get CAT1.


User currently offlines.p.a.s. From Liechtenstein, joined Mar 2001, 966 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11460 times:

They could have routed this flight via YVR.

LAX is already served from GRU with Korean, while the northern side of the North American west coast is not served at all by direct flights, YVR, SEA, PDX and Alaskan markets could benefit of a GRU-YVR flight.

My 2 cents,



"ad astra per aspera"
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17281 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 11260 times:

Ooof, we really doin' this? What a terrible idea and use of aircraft time--it'd be much better to beef up PR's regional schedule or the Middle East. Heck even trying the EU again would be less painful.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24718 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11096 times:

Without Cat-I even a codeshare is not possible. They might be wasting their times making noise at the stage.

Quoting s.p.a.s. (Reply 11):
LAX is already served from GRU with Korean, while the northern side of the North American west coast is not served at all by direct flights, YVR, SEA, PDX and Alaskan markets could benefit of a GRU-YVR flight.

In fairness if PAL is going to try to idea, they might as well do it via the biggest Brazil market on the West Coast.

Demand is tiny from places like SEA, PDX, YVR etc.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):

Ooof, we really doin' this? What a terrible idea and use of aircraft time--it'd be much better to beef up PR's regional schedule or the Middle East. Heck even trying the EU again would be less painful.

   PAL has so many problems, and instead of chasing after distant dreams they should focus on rebuilding a strong Far-East network and look to rebuild things like Europe first.

The only thing this flight will benefit are those looking for uber cheap consolidator fares between LA and Brazil. PR is going to have to dump it seat capacity at bargain rates to help fill planes.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 934 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11022 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
The only way this is going to work is if AA goes out empty-handed out the current US-Brazil frequency proceeding. In the end, PAL is not going for the Philippines-Brazil traffic, but rather for the Brazil-US traffic.

I agree with you, they want to make on Brazil-West Coast traffic


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2149 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10986 times:

What about the GUM stoppovers in both directions? This plan is complete smoke and mirrors, and honestly, a complete waste of energy.


next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlineahlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1341 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10923 times:

If they were targeting MNL-GRU traffic, they would route this via JNB or elsewhere in Southern Africa... via LAX is ~2000 miles further than via Southern Africa. So this is definitely mostly targeting LAX-GRU traffic.

User currently offlineCPA62 From Canada, joined Jan 2012, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 10881 times:

Quoting s.p.a.s. (Reply 11):
They could have routed this flight via YVR.

LAX is already served from GRU with Korean, while the northern side of the North American west coast is not served at all by direct flights, YVR, SEA, PDX and Alaskan markets could benefit of a GRU-YVR flight.

My 2 cents,

Such route would be a benifit economically to YVR and the surrounding region. The Canadian Government and
Air Canada would never allow it!


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10488 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 3):
Would the Philippines still being Cat. 2 have any effect on getting clearance to launch?
Quoting CPA62 (Reply 17):
Quoting s.p.a.s. (Reply 11):
They could have routed this flight via YVR.

LAX is already served from GRU with Korean, while the northern side of the North American west coast is not served at all by direct flights, YVR, SEA, PDX and Alaskan markets could benefit of a GRU-YVR flight.

My 2 cents,

Such route would be a benifit economically to YVR and the surrounding region. The Canadian Government and
Air Canada would never allow it!

Why not? JAL operated YVR-MEX with 5th freedom rights for many years, and for their last few years of service (after CP dropped the route), JAL was the only nonstop operator YVR-MEX.

Using your argument, why did Canada permit PR to operate YVR-LAS with 5th freedom rights since that route is also served by Canadian carriers, unlike YVR-GRU? And why did Canada grant CX 5th freedom rights YVR-JFK?

[Edited 2013-05-26 15:58:24]

User currently offlinejc2354 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 569 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9986 times:

If 3 airlines (KE, AA,PR) do fly LAX-GRU, who will get the premium/front cabin passengers?

Thanks



If not now, then when?
User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9199 times:

Quoting dforce1 (Reply 10):
Also, while it might be a pain, if someone in the Philippines will be able to afford to put up the cash for a ticket to Brazil, it's likely their pockets are deep enough that they have been to the US multiple times and obtaining a visa should not be a challenge. I can't imagine this flight is going to be cheap.

Mainly Filipinos working in off-shore platforms in Brazil... which does not necessarily means that they have deep pockets nor they have been to the US multiple times (probably never for many of them).


User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8442 times:

Quoting dforce1 (Thread starter):
Read More Here: http://www.philippineflightnetwork.c...ppine-airlines-set-to-land-in.html

You know, while I understand you're working very hard promoting your blog both here and on SkyscraperCity, I think it would do some justice if you post directly to the source material.

http://www.rappler.com/business/29986-pal-trim-costs-new-planes-2014

The link says this won't happen until next year. Now for those who are doubting this because of Cat II, the possibility of the FAA adopting the ICAO's findings and lifting Cat II anyway are likely, owing to the budget cuts imposed by the sequester. Let's see what will happen.

Quoting dforce1 (Reply 4):
I doubt that PAL would consider a codeshare with American...

PR and AA are actually quite close. This is why PR seems to be gravitating towards oneworld, though I wish otherwise.

Quoting LurveBus (Reply 6):
That aside, I believe this is going to be a codeshare arrangement. I was told by people processing the approvals that PAL metal will NOT be used between LAX and GRU.

Codeshare with who, though? AA or KE? While the former is likely due to the close ties between the two airlines, I wonder if the latter's possible?

On the other hand, owing to PR's lower operating costs, AA or KE could codeshare with PR instead should this become an extension of PR 102/112.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
Ooof, we really doin' this? What a terrible idea and use of aircraft time--it'd be much better to beef up PR's regional schedule or the Middle East. Heck even trying the EU again would be less painful
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
PAL has so many problems, and instead of chasing after distant dreams they should focus on rebuilding a strong Far-East network and look to rebuild things like Europe first.

And what makes the both of you think PR isn't doing that, given that it's launching new Far East services (CAN), virtually resurrecting its Middle East network from the dead (RUH, DMM, AUH, DXB on 2P, DOH), and is awaiting the arrival of its new A321s to boost its regional capacity?   

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):
What about the GUM stoppovers in both directions?

The GUM stop is only the westbound. Eastbound flights to the United States are non-stop.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 20):
Mainly Filipinos working in off-shore platforms in Brazil... which does not necessarily means that they have deep pockets nor they have been to the US multiple times (probably never for many of them).

Don't discount as well the large Brazilian community in the Philippines.


User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8279 times:

Also, you have flights from Japan connecting in LAX to it. Lots of Japanese people that go to Brazil, big Japanese community there.....and limited routings to connect Japan/Brazil.

User currently offlinedforce1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7688 times:

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 21):
You know, while I understand you're working very hard promoting your blog both here and on SkyscraperCity, I think it would do some justice if you post directly to the source material.

http://www.rappler.com/business/29986-pal-trim-costs-new-planes-2014



The link says this won't happen until next year. Now for those who are doubting this because of Cat II, the possibility of the FAA adopting the ICAO's findings and lifting Cat II anyway are likely, owing to the budget cuts imposed by the sequester. Let's see what will happen.

Actually, the Rappler article that you included only states "PAL is also set to expand direct flights to Sao Paulo, Brazil via Los Angeles soon."

My Philippine Flight Network blog reported that "Philippine Airlines aims to launch service to Brazil by 2014." That was also reported by the Exciting Centennial of Philippine Aviation blog.

So I am unclear where you found it said that it won't happen until next year? The goal of my blog is to collect the information contained in various news articles and put it all into one article for convenience as I find that many Philippine news sources tend to contain varying and sometimes conflicting information.

Secondly, it's not about promoting my blog but promoting discussion. Airliners.net was formed on a passion of aviation photography and sharing it with others. I just happen to prefer aviation writing and I like to share it with others  


Since you seem unsatisfied with the credibility of my blog, here is a report from the Philippine Daily Inquirer also reporting that "Flag carrier Philippine Airlines plans to mount daily flights to Brazil BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR—ahead of the football World Cup in South America’s biggest country next year."

PAL to launch flights to Brazil before year end

[Edited 2013-05-27 05:39:12 by SA7700]

User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6008 times:

Quoting dforce1 (Reply 23):
My Philippine Flight Network blog reported that "Philippine Airlines aims to launch service to Brazil by 2014." That was also reported by the Exciting Centennial of Philippine Aviation blog.

Some local forumers have disparaged the latter blog for a string of inaccurate predictions, which is why the reputation of the latter blog has been suspect, particularly among the aviation forumers at PinoyExchange (PEx). You might have seen a number of forumers on SSC who have publicly questioned the truthfulness of the Exciting World/Centennial of Philippine Aviation blog: these forumers are also active on PEx.

Quoting dforce1 (Reply 23):
Secondly, it's not about promoting my blog but promoting discussion. Airliners.net was formed on a passion of aviation photography and sharing it with others. I just happen to prefer aviation writing and I like to share it with others  

I perfectly understand that. Just don't make the same mistakes as the Exciting World/Centennial of Philippine Aviation blog, and you will be fine.  
Quoting dforce1 (Reply 23):
Since you seem unsatisfied with the credibility of my blog

I did not suggest that your blog was not credible. However, given the controversy already surrounding the Exciting World/Centennial of Philippine Aviation blog, aviation forumers in the Philippines have the right to be leery.


25 dforce1 : Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it. I can understand your hesitation to rely on blogs but not all blogs are made equal. I do approach th
26 mozart : Routing through the USA and its idiotic "you-need-a-visa-to-actually-not-enter-our-country" rules which will make life very difficult for many passeng
27 SCQ83 : The "large Brazilian community in the Philippines" also need transit visas.
28 Akiestar : My statement did not deny that Brazilians need transit visas. However, given Visa Waiver Program reform (which, given the state of Congress, will tak
29 mozart : ... but will need to stand between 30 and 120 minutes in line at immigration at LAX, although they do not even want to enter the country.
30 IrishAyes : There is absolutely zero business case behind the impetus to launch this route other than for glamour purposes. PAL has basically lost control over t
31 Post contains images Akiestar : It's your word against Ramon Ang's, as he supposedly has a business case for the route, although granted, the market he's looking to tap is small. If
32 AngMoh : It seems proof that beer and airlines are not a very good combination. After Kingfisher, we have now the San Miguel antics... But to get serious now:
33 IrishAyes : Which is even more obscure because LAX-GRU is not high-yielding. If RA wanted to target US-Brasil, then PR should enter MIA-GRU or NYC-GRU, but not f
34 HOONS90 : Since Brazil is the largest country in South America period, they are likely to be the largest source of South American tourists for pretty much any
35 jfk777 : Why would low yielding Phillipine Air want to fly all the way to GRU ? This is an airline with a lousy management record which should find a route it
36 Akiestar : He was planning to use the 77W. Partially because AA is the preferred interline partner for those flying PR to onward destinations from SFO and LAX,
37 willzzz88 : You know PR FIRST needs to get those LAX and SFO flights West-bound I believe NON-STOP. No one likes an extra stop in GUM. I know PR people like to ta
38 COSPN : GUM stop is very quick PAX remain onboard for a quick Fuel stop usally about 24 mins or less..allows for Max weight takeoff from LAX and SFO and dayli
39 KL808 : PR Doesn't want the extra stop neither, it costs extra money. However, due to CAT 2 they cant change equipment. BUT Ill bet you money once CAT 2 has
40 YVRSpeedBird : Yes they did... from one lousy management to another! Ramon Ang may be a good CEO in the food/beer/petroleum businesses, but the airline business is
41 hugo : Well said, YVR Speedbird. I am afraid that PR's top management, like many of the elites that govern the country, enjoy making incredible pronouncement
42 Post contains links and images Akiestar : Oh, gee. You know Ramon Ang is a pilot, right? I'd presume he'd be aware of how the airline industry works. At least he's doing a better job than Jaim
43 Akiestar : I am under the impression you haven't seen the renovations yet, and this is considering that the renovations aren't even yet complete. (And yes, I ju
44 YVRSpeedBird : Ahhh yes, so a transit bus driver should run the bus company! No, perhaps the transit authority itself! Even then, a bus driver who's made a career o
45 hugo : I happen to fly through NAIA 1 a lot. In fact, I am now in Changi and will be seeing Locsin's poorly-maintained structure in a few hours so do not th
46 Post contains images YVRSpeedBird : Well said hugo! I couldn't agree with you more. Just because you and I did not drink the new PAL kool aid (nor C2 or Zesto for that matter ) does not
47 Post contains links and images Akiestar : http://www1.philippineairlines.com/a...al/pal-holding/directors-officers/ Okay, so tell me who here is from this "Binondo club" you speak of? Start na
48 LAXdude1023 : If this goes through, LAX-GRU just became the lowest yielding route to South America.
49 LipeGIG : True. And there's not so much of a market right now for 4 Gulf/Turkish carriers, I can't believe with Brazilian economy slowing down (a lot) this rou
50 LurveBus : All this talk over a possible codeshare... I asked people again. PR metal will not be flying to GRU.
51 LipeGIG : Would be very smart if that's the case. Codeshare make sense and allow PR to reach GRU and GIG easier and with far less risks.
52 YVRSpeedBird : I wasn't talking about the Board. I'm talking about the management team, in charge of day to day operations. It's not on their website, but there wer
53 hugo : Once again, well-said, YVR Speedbird. I want to call a spade, a spade. PAL management under Tan only weakend the position of the airline; an example
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