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Ex-Air India 77L Bound For PS - Where Are They?  
User currently offlineTupolev160 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10899 times:

There were reports several months ago following VV's collapse that PS purchased the 5 three-class configured 77L that we all thought AI was never going to be able to sell (registrations available?). Ever since VV's collapse, Ukraine is devoid of inter-continental routes. PS suggested they intended to refit the a/c into 2 class only. Any idea on where are they now, when will they join the fleet and when and which long-range routes will be started by Ukraine International Airlines? Thanks for any input.

Previous topic: Ukraine Intl Getting 777-200s (by hotplane Jan 11 2013 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2013-05-26 10:29:05]

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2981 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10856 times:
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Quoting Tupolev160 (Thread starter):

There were reports several months ago following VV's collapse that PS purchased the 5 three-class configured 77L that we all thought AI was never going to be able to sell (registrations available?). Ever since VV's collapse, Ukraine is devoid of inter-continental routes. PS suggested they intended to refit the a/c into 2 class only.
Any idea on where are they now, when will they join the fleet and when and which long-range routes will be started by Ukraine International Airlines? Thanks for any input.

All remain with Air India and in daily service with the exception of VT-ALH currently stored broken.

Either AI have retained them to cover for the 788 groundings or as more likely the deal has collapsed


User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 495 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10583 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 1):
VT-ALH currently stored broken

Why? Broken... how?



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlinewhiplash From India, joined Nov 2011, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10433 times:

Probably cannibalized..   

The last 77L to be taken up by Air India.. Probably they are trying to keep the airframe hours on it to their minumum for a greater resale value, they really don't need another 77L in service - take your pick..

[Edited 2013-05-26 12:10:02]

In fact, i think i can see it parked in front of the Air India hanger at the Mumbai Airport - on google maps.. I think they have taken out engine -1..


[Edited 2013-05-26 12:13:19]

User currently onlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2981 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10368 times:
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Not flown for a year and stored at Mumbai with cracked undercarriage spar and as whiplash correctly said used as a doner frame.

User currently offlineTupolev160 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10297 times:



Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 2):

Wait, the aircraft is not even 4 years old, how could it be cannibalized?

Anyway, what about the rest, they're still flying with Air India? No official info regarding the deal?

[Edited 2013-05-26 12:38:54]

User currently offlineTupolev160 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 10150 times:

How many aircraft AI has sold and "leased back"?  Wow!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India#Fleet


User currently offlinewhiplash From India, joined Nov 2011, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 10086 times:

All the other 777's are flying with Air India.. And there is no info on any deals signed by Air India with anyone for the future sale or lease of these 77L's..
They'll probably use them till they get all the 787's and then will find a more permanent solution to them..

And as soon as all this is achieved, I believe they'll cash out with the 3 77W's that have not been built by Boeing yet but are on order..


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 10000 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 4):
Not flown for a year and stored at Mumbai with cracked undercarriage spar and as whiplash correctly said used as a doner frame.

It is astounding how carriers in South Asia disrespect and abuse their stored aircraft, regardless of whether owned or leased. Just a reflection of poor management and shortsightedness.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9674 times:
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I thought AI was going to put these into a 2-class configuration for mid-east routes. Was that delayed due to the 787 or is there any real plan on what AI intends to do with the 77Ls?

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 4):
Not flown for a year and stored at Mumbai with cracked undercarriage spar

Wait, if I have the right spar in mind, that isn't that expensive a repair. Spars can be replaced on jacks. The keel on the other hand...

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 5):
Wait, the aircraft is not even 4 years old, how could it be cannibalized?

Any aircraft can be cannibalized. Did we learn nothing from IT? While a shame, in the end all aircraft are just parts and if one needed a pricey repair, it becomes the donor.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2981 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9645 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
Wait, if I have the right spar in mind, that isn't that expensive a repair. Spars can be replaced on jacks. The keel on the other hand...

We are talking AI here must be the worst managed carrier outside of Sub Saharan Africa !


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9629 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
We are talking AI here must be the worst managed carrier outside of Sub Saharan Africa !

Yes, especially now since Kingfisher is dead!     


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9503 times:
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Quoting sankaps (Reply 11):
Yes, especially now since Kingfisher is dead!

                       


If that hadn't been so funny, I would make a comment about a 'below the belt' hit...  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4441 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8343 times:

Question is, how was the spar cracked ?


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6181 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8277 times:
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Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
We are talking AI here must be the worst managed carrier outside of Sub Saharan Africa !

Nah. Think AR. They take THAT award.



MGGS
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8276 times:

AI also planning to sell off entire 77L fleet with Boeing's help according to other news sources, that means the Ukraine deal is off.

User currently offlinewhiplash From India, joined Nov 2011, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7555 times:

Hasn't Air India been trying to sell them for ages.. I'll believe it the day they actually get rid of them..

User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1791 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7076 times:

Air India is rather hamstrung by the fact that the 77L is not a very popular airliner, and they are going to have problems finding a buyer for them.

The only option they have is to sell them cheap to the highest bidder.

Can the 77L be converted to a freighter? Surely that would make the more marketable.



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineBreninTW From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1629 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7033 times:

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 17):
Can the 77L be converted to a freighter? Surely that would make the more marketable.

From what I understand, the best answer to that is "not in an economically viable way" -- apparently the floor loading of the passenger aircraft is lower than for the freighter, so for a conversion, the entire floor support structure needs to be changed.



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11244 posts, RR: 33
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6414 times:

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 5):
Wait, the aircraft is not even 4 years old, how could it be cannibalized?

Look for cannibalized AI A320 pictures on Google and you will have your answer.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10679 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6299 times:

I have seen that stored 77L at BOM last month. Very dusty and indeed looking as if out of work for some considerable time. Parked aside 3 or 4 787s at that time, close to some A310s being scrapped. I hope thats not indicative of its fate, just 4 years old, what a shame.

Quoting whiplash (Reply 16):

Hasn't Air India been trying to sell them for ages.. I'll believe it the day they actually get rid of them..

Since 2 or 3 years, yes. There were several articles in the press about it from time to time.

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 17):

Air India is rather hamstrung by the fact that the 77L is not a very popular airliner, and they are going to have problems finding a buyer for them.

Who would need a 77L who hasnt got them already? And then from India of all places? AI will finally have to give in to accept a huge loss if they finally find a taker. Or they will keep operating them on odd routes not making much money, if any.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5882 times:

Quoting na (Reply 20):
Since 2 or 3 years, yes. There were several articles in the press about it from time to time.

the one I quoted is the latest.


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1617 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4741 times:

I was on a NW A332 that hit a flock of vultures on rotation out of BOM at about 0130L--several went through the #2 engine. It sounded like when we were kids and we would place a baseball card and a clothespin on our bike tire to make that braaaaak sound. So, needless to say we did a fast 360 and came back to land. Our A330's have no fuel dumping mechanism and as we were enroute to AMS we had a heavy load of fuel and pax. We hit the ground hard with MAJOR wing flex. No harm--just some VERY hot brakes. The plugs on the tires never even blew, oddly enough.

The f/o went down with his cell and took pictures of the front fan to show to us--the blades were all twisted and it was obvious we were going nowhere. He said the tailpipe smelled like burned chicken. Air India does our major maintenance there and they came over, looked at the damage and I swear because I was standing in the cockpit doorway and heard it myself and the lead mechanic said "Well, we could cut the lower six inches off the blades and you should be good to go." All of our mouths just fell open in disbelief. The look on the captain's f/o's and my face must have ben incredulous!

We cancelled. Another night in BOM. It also turned out that at least one bird had hit the fuselage right about where the f/a's right knee would sit and had left a large dent.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineTupolev160 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4309 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 22):

Wow, thanks for sharing that with us. Could you explain us more in details what would be the consequences of what he proposed? What repairs are actually gonna be done on the aircraft?

PS: What was the flight number?

Thanks.


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1617 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4152 times:

A jet turbine has to be perfectly balanced or it will wobble and come apart. Essentially, it is like putting your finger against a spinning top. If they had cut those 6-7 fan blades off, the whole engine would have been out of balance as it essentially a gyroscope.

The GOOD news is that the engines on the A330 do not have to be changed as one unit like on so many other planes. All they had to do was to remove that first stage fan and replace it after boroscoping the engine looking for more damage. There was none--there was also not a fan stage in India and one had to be flown in from AMS. After they repaired the engine the plane was ferried back to AMS for repair to the skin damage. Thankfully, our partner KLM has EXCELLENT maintenance facilities.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineTupolev160 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2908 times:

Are the collisions with vultures more frequent in India than elsewhere, according to your experience? I remember witnessing an unbelievable number of crows in India the last years, i'm talking of thousands on a single square kilometer.

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