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Is The A350-1000 Taking Orders From A380?  
User currently onlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 870 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 14021 times:

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/AW_05_20_2013_p38-578739.xml&p=1

This article in Aviation Week seems to suggest that as the A350 gets closer to first flight a few more airlines are taking notice and perhaps we could see a few more orders for the A350 in the coming mouth. The article also mentions that Airbus is now seeing some interest from airlines in the A350-1000 variant and that that interest could be taking potential sales from the A380. Although no decision has been made according to this article Airbus is mulling a cut in A380 production because they are seeing a lot more interest from the airlines in the A350 than the A380.

First of all how much stock would you put in this article and secondly is the A350 both the 900 and 1000 variants taking orders that could potentially go to A380 program? And lastly could the A350 program do to the A380 what the 777 did to the 747?

87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11607 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 14018 times:

Quoting jayunited (Thread starter):
First of all how much stock would you put in this article and secondly is the A350 both the 900 and 1000 variants taking orders that could potentially go to A380 program?

I would place very little faith in it. In a typical three class config the A388 offers 150-200 seats more than the A351. Two completely different markets IMO.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineProst From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 898 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13962 times:

Two different markets, agreed. However, the smaller sized market has a greater demand than the larger sized market.

User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2946 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13869 times:

I guess one could argue that the economy means that the A350 is eating into orders that Airbus would have originally hoped would go to the A380, but I don't see that a being a negative thing. If those orders didn't go to the A350 then they'd be going to the 777.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30415 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13817 times:
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In that some airlines have been choosing the 777-300ER to replace their 747-400s (in whole or in part) instead of the A380-800, those airlines (or new airlines) moving to the A350-1000 instead of the 777-300ER...

But in either scenario, the A380-800 was out of the running so as qf002 notes, Airbus securing that order with an A350-1000 vs. Boeing with a 777-300ER would still benefit Airbus.


User currently offlineRickNRoll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13709 times:

Quoting Prost (Reply 2):
Two different markets, agreed. However, the smaller sized market has a greater demand than the larger sized market.

As it always has.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13574 times:

Quoting jayunited (Thread starter):
And lastly could the A350 program do to the A380 what the 777 did to the 747?

There's not much doubt that both the A380 and the B748 are having increasing trouble securing orders, and probably production of both types will have to be phased out within a very few years, jayunited. This press story shows that both the 'big fours' are in trouble orders-wise:-

"Airbus brought in only four new orders for the A380 last year, compared with a target of 30, and the company hasn’t booked a purchase for the airliner this year, on a goal of 25 contracts. The company has cut back output plans as it works through changing the wing structure, eating into sales growth that EADS reiterated will be “modest” in 2013.

.....................

"Boeing Co. (BA) said last month it is cutting the production rate of its 747-8 model to 1.75 planes a month from two, citing dwindling demand."


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...rs-for-delivery-slots-in-2015.html

It's just 'evolution,' really. Led by the B777, the 'big twin' with ETOPS capability has finally 'arrived.'



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlinejustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13126 times:

Quoting jayunited (Thread starter):
And lastly could the A350 program do to the A380 what the 777 did to the 747?

Probably not as bad as the 77W is pretty close to the 748 in capacity, wheras a significant gap for the 3510 and 380.

Still, big 4's have risk and operational challenges that are magnified relative to the new big twins.

I think in two years we'll know pretty much for sure.


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9940 posts, RR: 96
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13048 times:
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Quoting jayunited (Thread starter):
First of all how much stock would you put in this article

Firstly, we've already done this interview with Harald Wilhelm to death on this thread

Not Enough Customers For A380 (by katekebo May 14 2013 in Civil Aviation)

just over a week ago, although the OP article in this case was from Bloomberg.

Nowhere in the article is there any comment from Airbus that even hints at a production cut.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 6):
Airbus brought in only four new orders for the A380 last year,

It was nine actually

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 7):
I think in two years we'll know pretty much for sure.

Correct

Rgds


User currently offlineRickNRoll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12908 times:

I suppose we could think of the A380 as two twins stuck on top of each other, needing half the number of pilots. When you look at the airports where they work, the A380 seems to be quite at home. Where are all the slots for the phenomonenal number of smaller twins going to come from?

User currently offlinemjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 1300 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12869 times:

http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/ 5/24/2013

Tim Clark from Emirates states in this interview very clearly that Emirates will buy more A380 and replace old A380 with new A380 from 2020.
So I would wait before declaring the A380 dead.


User currently onlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3378 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12662 times:

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 10):
Tim Clark from Emirates states in this interview very clearly that Emirates will buy more A380 and replace old A380 with new A380 from 2020.
So I would wait before declaring the A380 dead.

I would suggest at this point in time a used A380 will displace a new order. That is unless the resale value is little above scrap price. Why? You are not going to save much compared to just buying new and having that 10years more lifetime on the frame *AND* all the improvements since these used frames were built. Which means the total cost of ownership is going to be better for the new frame unless the used price is quite low.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 47
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12514 times:
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Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 11):
I would suggest at this point in time a used A380 will displace a new order.

I don't really see it - a new 2020 A380 will be significantly better than an early one that EK has flogged for 12 years. Having a customer roll over their (expected) fleet of 130 A380s is hardly bad news for Airbus, is it?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 629 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11746 times:

Most airlines ordering A3510 have already ordered A380.

User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 854 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11645 times:

The past few years new world carriers have captured large market shares against big carriers. Maybe it's a transition period with the biggest carriers therefore not growing, and many new world carriers not yet being big enough yet to operate aircraft the size of the A380.
The maximum impact of this transition period certainly belongs to the past, there are now too many competitors losing money. It's getting too difficult now for new entrants to be successful and gain market shares. So growth should from now be shared entirely by the existing carriers.

[Edited 2013-05-27 05:00:17]


Never trust the obvious
User currently offlinemjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 1300 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11438 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 11):
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 10):
Tim Clark from Emirates states in this interview very clearly that Emirates will buy more A380 and replace old A380 with new A380 from 2020.
So I would wait before declaring the A380 dead.

I would suggest at this point in time a used A380 will displace a new order. That is unless the resale value is little above scrap price. Why? You are not going to save much compared to just buying new and having that 10years more lifetime on the frame *AND* all the improvements since these used frames were built. Which means the total cost of ownership is going to be better for the new frame unless the used price is quite low.


I am just tiered of the talk about the A380 dying. It does not really matter what will happen to the used birds of EK. They fly their aircraft a certain time and than they are renewed. As they do not own those planes, but lease them, the price of used 12 year old planes has little influence on there calculation.

If the old A380 from EK will be a problem to the used market why than should all the at the same time retired B777 not be a problem for that used market?

It seems to me that the same people talking about the big possibilities of the B 777-X9 have to realize that in the regards to Emirates the A 330, later the 350, is the small frame, the B 777 the medium and the A380 the big frame.

It is strange this one set of arguments for the A380 and than a different set of arguments for the B 777-XX.
If you do not believe Emirates to buy A380 in the future, you should stop believing them buying the B777-XX, if smaller is better they would end with A350 only.


User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6849 posts, RR: 63
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11282 times:

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 13):
Most airlines ordering A3510 have already ordered A380.

   

I'm not sure it's much of a statistical base to go on.

Asiana   
British Airways   
Cathay Pacific   
Emirates   
Etihad   
Qatar   

And that's it so far - six airlines.

Still, you're correct as far as it goes.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4820 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11231 times:

Quoting Prost (Reply 2):

Two different markets, agreed. However, the smaller sized market has a greater demand than the larger sized market.

Agreed but qf002 has a valid point. Airbus have both bases covered.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 3):

I guess one could argue that the economy means that the A350 is eating into orders that Airbus would have originally hoped would go to the A380, but I don't see that a being a negative thing. If those orders didn't go to the A350 then they'd be going to the 777.


        

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11060 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 8):
Quoting NAV20 (Reply 6):Airbus brought in only four new orders for the A380 last year,
It was nine actually

Misunderstanding, I think, astuteman - it wasn't me saying that, I was quoting a Bloomberg press story?

And the story also said, "...and the company hasn’t booked a purchase for the airliner this year, on a goal of 25 contracts."

Only too possible that Bloomberg got it wrong. But, if so, please post evidence for the 'nine new orders' last year, and for any orders received this year?



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10332 posts, RR: 30
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10940 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):
But, if so, please post evidence for the 'nine new orders' last year

Just check the Airbus Orders Excel sheet, it's all in there.

> Transaero: 4
> Singapore Airlines: 5

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):
I was quoting a Bloomberg press story?

It's always good to check the facts before quoting the media; the media has it often wrong.

[Edited 2013-05-27 05:50:48]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3361 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10834 times:

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 15):
I am just tiered of the talk about the A380 dying.
I also feel like any talking of the A380 ceasing to be produced is premature. However, I have not been reading too many people speculating that it will happen. Not sure what comment you are responding to. Maybe people are speculating that production will slow. There is clearly demand for at least 2/month for a number of years to come.

[quote=mjoelnir,reply=15]It does not really matter what will happen to the used birds of EK. They fly their aircraft a certain time and than they are renewed. As they do not own those planes, but lease them, the price of used 12 year old planes has little influence on there calculation.

It absolutely does matter and it matters for the reason you have. EK likes to lease their birds and lease rates will go way up if resale values are low, which changes the dynamics of the new purchase decision. Which means less new aircraft are purchased. Look at Ryan Air dumping 737s as an example.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 15):
If the old A380 from EK will be a problem to the used market why than should all the at the same time retired B777 not be a problem for that used market?

I think you are comparing two dissimilar situations. If you compare the A380 situation with the B747 that will be closer (still not the same) situation. The 777 has 65 operators of 1400 frames while the 380 has 9 current operators. If you are trying to resell a used frame into a small market it is much more difficult then selling a frame into a used market. How many current A380 operators buy used aircraft? Also, as EK is the largest operator of A380 (40%+?) by definition, there are not a lot of other operators out there that will be anxious to bid for that many especially as most airlines will have their A380s for longer than 12 years and can get a new model in less than three years (currently) Do not get me wrong, they will definitely find a good home but the discount off of original list price will certainly be higher than that of a 777 which will effect new lease rates. I repeat: the A380 will be around for a long time. Great aircraft.

tortugamon


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9940 posts, RR: 96
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10720 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):
Misunderstanding, I think, astuteman - it wasn't me saying that, I was quoting a Bloomberg press story?

No misunderstanding.
I'm perfectly aware from the last dreary thread on this interview that Bloomberg effed up.
If you'd have done your homework you'd have known that.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):
Only too possible that Bloomberg got it wrong. But, if so, please post evidence for the 'nine new orders' last year,

Yes they did.

Me post the evidence? You're having a laugh.
All you've got to do is check the Airbus orders page.
It's all Bloomberg had to do, too

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):
Just check the Airbus Orders Excel sheet, it's all in there.

> Transaero: 4
> Singapore Airlines: 5

Let him do his own homework. He's old enough

Rgds


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10657 times:

Fair enough, guys!  

Were Bloomberg also wrong about no orders so far this year - or is that bit true?



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10332 posts, RR: 30
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10433 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 22):
or is that bit true?

That is correct, but it should be noted that Lufthansa got board approval last February to buy 2 more A380s (together with a bunch of A320 aircraft).



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 47
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10316 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 22):
Were Bloomberg also wrong about no orders so far this year - or is that bit true?

It is to this point of the year. However, LH has approved an additional two and I suspect that EK alone will comfortably beat Airbus's target for the year (but you'll probably have to wait until November for that one!)   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
25 Burkhard : I think the A350-1000 and the A380-800 are already wide enough apart that they serve different markets. On the other hand, 7810,3510 and 779 will have
26 N821NW : First of all the Boeing B747-8i/F will be in production at-least until the USAF orders its Air Force One replacement as we know full well that the US
27 Post contains links mjoelnir : Lufthansa 2 frames on the 3/14/2013 http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...s-go-ahead-for-major-airbus-order/ For how many orders during 2013 I would
28 Post contains images KarelXWB : Fixed
29 NAV20 : Thanks, KarelXWB. So, basically, we have Airbus getting next to no orders for the A380, and Boeing reporting 'dwindling demand' for the B748. Doesn't
30 qf002 : Because there is a far larger market for used 777s than used A380s. Used 777s will find homes at secondary carriers that could never even hope to fly
31 art : One or more orders at Le Bourget would not be a surprise to me. No orders at Le Bourget would. Remember the speculation over the "significant" custom
32 mjoelnir : But Emirates is the biggest owner of the B 777-300 the biggest of the B777 and we can not expect first line airlines, except perhaps Delta, to buy th
33 frmrcapcadet : Boeing and Airbus both need to figure out how to make a profit on fewer frames per month for the VLAs. And the airlines that need them may need to ord
34 jayunited : The article is kind of a 2 part article in that Airbus's CFO points out that they have a "single digit number" of slots available in 2015. If Airbus i
35 brilondon : The military will replace the 747 with whatever is available to fly the president or whomever is in need of transport for the government. Just a note
36 Post contains images astuteman : Oon the assumption that EK keeps its frames for 12 years the extent of the "used A380" problem is:- 2020 - 4 frames 2021 - 3 frames 2022/23 - 13 fram
37 Post contains images EPA001 : Good question. I would like to see that number coming down. I think it will decrease, especially since a competitor is glooming at the horizon, thoug
38 7BOEING7 : If EK orders another 30 this year that takes them to 41%.
39 motorhussy : Continued: global population growth; exponential increase in volume of people flying; congestion at major global airports; slot restriction at airpor
40 spink : It really does matter what will happen to the used birds of EK. In order for EK to replace those birds on a cost competitive basis there needs to be
41 Stitch : SQ and EK are two customers who appear to operate this way. Doric Nimrod Capital, which has bought a number of A380s from customers like SQ, LH and EK
42 Heavierthanair : G'day With high fuel costs, crewing costs and in particular high maintenance costs for those aging planes I see a very limited market for these aircra
43 Post contains images sunrisevalley : [ To use a rather mixed metaphor they appear to have pulled their head out of the sand and smelt the roses.
44 spink : You have to take into account that these deals are at prices below the realistic discount rate for the actual frame as well. And 200 mil at 3% for 10
45 Post contains images tortugamon : Sorry mjoelnir, apparently there are people speculating that the A380 is going out of business. I was wondering why you were so quick to suggest it b
46 sunrisevalley : In most jurisdictions they would get the benefit of the CCA which helps on an after tax basis.
47 Stitch : So far, the A380 seems to be very stable in terms of valuation. 9V-SKA has consistently had a projected value of $170 million since 2009 and a 2009 d
48 spink : Which unfortunately doesn't tell us anything about the value of a 12 year old frame in need of both a home and a long and costly and rare upgrade ove
49 KarelXWB : The biggest problem I currently see for second-hand A380s are the huge costs for cabin outfitting. Unless an airline is willing to accept the EK cabi
50 astuteman : Don't disagree with this to be honest, Tortugamon. Just a reminder perhaps that all frames have this issue - the A380 may just have it more than othe
51 mjoelnir : I think you are far of when you imagine that a 12 years leasing could be arranged paying only about 50% of the investment costs. Even going to 70 or
52 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : It's too soon to say that. There are a few things you should keep in mind: 1) If the economy grows and people go travel more, one will need bigger ai
53 spink : Current lease rates (admittedly on discounted cost frames) are currently at 70-75% over ~12 years of full cost(price+interest). I used ~50% simply as
54 KarelXWB : 9 months. Meaning Leahy has about 1.5 years left to sell those remaining 2015 slots.[Edited 2013-05-27 14:49:44]
55 spink : But the real question is if that means up gauging large aircraft to ultra large or medium aircraft to large aircraft? The EK model is to upgrade from
56 Post contains images tortugamon : Yes all new frames have this issue. As a side note, I wonder if airlines can renegotiate their sale/lease back agreements as this data becomes more a
57 mjoelnir : You can only judge a leasing contract by the real investment cost and we all have difficulties to get the actually paid prices. It is completely usel
58 Post contains links Stitch : The A380 conforms to MSG-3 standards (Maintenance Steering Group, 3rd edition) and as such, needs significantly less maintenance hours compared to ol
59 brilondon : This is an excellent analysis of the situation and I agree with everything that is said. You have to look at a longer range view of the market than t
60 RickNRoll : As someone has already pointed out, the larger the plane, the smaller the market for it. The 77W has proven to be a very good product hitting an impo
61 spink : The pricing data for the planes is the same as the leasing data and represents actual paid values, not list. Therefore the leasing and pricing data a
62 mjoelnir : Most of the data you are talking about is confidential, I jet have to see a real confirmed price either a lessor or airline is paying for a new airpl
63 spink : The data I'm using is from IBA/ASCEND and has been posted to airliners.net for several years including this year quite recently. One would assume tha
64 Post contains images NAV20 : I really don't see why suggesting that the jumbos will face a great deal of competition from the big twins that both firms are developing at top spee
65 Post contains images 7BOEING7 : Not everybody wants to go to LHR or one of the few other airports that are A380 capable and slot limited. Boeing bet on point to point with the 787 a
66 N14AZ : @ NAV20, reply 64: your numbers are wrong. They delivered a little bit more than 100 aiframes and the backlog is something like 180 airframes.*) BA ha
67 Post contains images astuteman : There's a "not-so-subtle" difference between "suggesting that the jumbos will face a great deal of competition from the big twins" and .... which I t
68 NAV20 : Yes, sorry mate, read the figures on Wiki backwards! No doubt about Airbus' worries about maybe being short of orders in 2015, though? How does that
69 Post contains images scbriml : No, they have 161 yet to be delivered. That's over five years of production if they settle at 30 per year. It may not happen at Paris, but EK will ad
70 NAV20 : Please see the second paragraph of the story linked to in the opening post, astuteman?
71 KarelXWB : Depends on your definition of medium sized aircraft. In a strong economy growth I can see A330 sized aircraft being upgraded to the A380. This is a b
72 Post contains links KarelXWB : Airbus biggest concern at the moment is not the backlog (even if you cancel the Kingfisher slots there is 5 years of production left) but the open de
73 tortugamon : As others have mentioned, it was your comment suggesting that A380 will be phased out in a few years that I was having trouble agreeing to. Certainly
74 Post contains images NAV20 : Thanks for the friendly comments, guys, glad were back talking! That's probably the root of the earlier problem. At my (advanced) age - and considerin
75 Burkhard : If LH remains the only larger costumor, they will fly them as long as they flew their 744s - and then the aircraft will have done their work and go t
76 scbriml : They are. It will fly shortly.
77 astuteman : I have. Very carefully. Aviationweek have said that Airbus are "mulling a production cut" I still haven't seen, and don't see, anywhere where Airbus
78 Post contains links and images EPA001 : The A380 has already landed on more then 135 airports in the world. That is not a few in my book, that is at least at all major hubs and all secondar
79 Post contains links tortugamon : 'Landed' is different than commercial service. While I agree with the spirit of your statement that more airports are A380 compatible than most give
80 Post contains images astuteman : Fortunately nobody has ever been stupid enough to suggest that everyone should fly on A380's. They've only ever been stupid enough to rebutt such a n
81 7BOEING7 : Right now 32% of all the A380's are owned by one customer going "hub & spoke" out of one airport. Assuming they order another 30 this year that n
82 art : Answered by KarelXWB, I think: I think that Airbus is in a position where if in their estimation the CASM of other aircraft is getting too close to t
83 frmrcapcadet : The 380 is getting about 20 orders a year. I'm not sure how statistics work at these relatively low numbers, but I suspect that a downturn in 380 orde
84 astuteman : It will be 2018 or so before EK receive the last of their current orders Which suggests it will be be 2020 or so before they would receive their 120t
85 Post contains links tortugamon : [quote=astuteman,reply=80]Given that there are only 100 in service, this is no surprise. We should re-visit this when there are 300 in service Indeed.
86 astuteman : Although in the context of airport compatibility limiting the A380 I'm not sure what this tells us. It might be that given the lack of deliveries, ai
87 tortugamon : Absolutely. IMO, it will be the carriers with more than 10-12 that will open up most of the new routes at this point. Maybe at that point the folks i
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