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A380 Markets, So Far As Predicted  
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13779 times:
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The early predictions were that LAX, LHR and CDG would get the most A380 flights by foreign airlines....

Followed by a second of group, JFK, FRA, SYD and NRT

LAX will have 7 by the end of this year:

Korean
Singapore
China Southern
Qantas
AF
BA
Emirates

How are LHR and CDG doing?

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13627 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
How are LHR and CDG doing?

I believe by the end of the year LHR will have:

BA
EK
QF
MH
SQ
and I believe TG

http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamili...eraircraft/a380family/a380-routes/

[Edited 2013-06-15 02:42:58]


Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13610 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
How are LHR

Currently 26 routes, 4 airlines. With BA and TG starting flights later on this year.


London (LHR) - Dubai (DXB), EK008, 09:10 - 20:00 h
Dubai (DXB) - London (LHR), EK007, 03:10 - 07:05 h

London (LHR) - Singapore (SIN), SQ317, 10:55 - 07:35 h (+1)
Singapore (SIN) - London (LHR), SQ318, 12:55 - 18:55 h

London (LHR) - Kuala Lumpur (KUL), MH003, 12:00 - 07:25h (+1) (1/3/6)
Kuala Lumpur (KUL) - London (LHR), MH002, 23:40 - 05:50 h (+1) (2/5/7)

London (LHR) - Dubai (DXB), EK002, 13:45 - 00:25 h (+1)
Dubai (DXB) - London (LHR), EK001, 07:45 - 11:35 h

London (LHR) - Dubai (DXB), EK030, 16:35 – 03:25 h (+1)
Dubai (DXB) - London (LHR), EK029, 09:40 – 13:30 h

London (LHR) - Singapore (SIN), SQ319, 18:30 - 15:20 h (+1)
Singapore (SIN) - London (LHR), SQ308, 09:05 - 15:30 h

London (LHR) - Singapore (SIN), SQ305, 20:00 - 15:50 h (+1) (2/3/4)
Singapore (SIN) - London (LHR), SQ306, 23:45 - 06:20 h (+1) (1/2/3)

London (LHR) - Dubai (DXB), EK004, 20:40 - 06:30 h (+1)
Dubai (DXB) - London (LHR), EK003, 14:15 - 18:40 h

London (LHR) - Dubai (DXB) - Sydney (SYD), QF002, 21:30 - 05:10 h (+2)
-> London (LHR) - Dubai (DXB), QF002, 21:30 - 07:15 h (+1)
Sydney (SYD) - Dubai (DXB) - London (LHR), QF001, 16:05 - 06:35 h (+1)
-> Dubai (DXB) - London (LHR), QF001, 02:05 - 06:35 h

London (LHR) - Kuala Lumpur (KUL), MH001, 22:00 - 18:20 h (+1)
Kuala Lumpur (KUL) - London (LHR), MH004, 10:45 - 16:15 h

London (LHR) - Singapore (SIN), SQ321, 22:05 - 18:45 h (+1)
Singapore (SIN) - London (LHR), SQ322, 23:45 - 05:45 h (+1)

London (LHR) - Dubai (DXB), EK006, 22:15 – 08:05 h (+1)
Dubai (DXB) - London (LHR), EK005, 15:45 – 20:15 h

London (LHR) - Dubai (DXB) - Melbourne (MEL), QF010, 22:30 - 05:15 h (+2)
-> London (LHR) - Dubai (DXB) , QF010, 22:30 - 08:15 h (+1)
Melbourne (MEL) - Dubai (DXB) - London (LHR), QF009, 15:25 - 05:40 h (+1)
-> Dubai (DXB) - London (LHR), QF009, 01:10 - 05:40 h


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12636 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 13547 times:
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Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 1):
I believe by the end of the year LHR will have:

He did say "foreign airlines", so you'd have to drop BA from the LHR list.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2509 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 13012 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 3):
He did say "foreign airlines", so you'd have to drop BA from the LHR list.   

Well, BA is a foreign airline for a US poster . . .   



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineraaadek From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11983 times:

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 1):
http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamili...eraircraft/a380family/a380-routes/

Any reason why EK was not mentioned in the brief history of A380 on Airbus website?


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3225 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11458 times:

But which airport has the most A380 movements a day? DXB.


come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineYYZAMS From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10594 times:

Quoting PW100 (Reply 4):

yes, and I guess to a US poster only foreign airlines have the A380.


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9161 times:
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Quoting motorhussy (Reply 6):
DXB has the most A380 movements? A380 movements mean nothing to me....

An airport/market can prove its weight by how many foreign airlines service it and type of aircraft they use to that airport (LAX, LHR, CDG, NRT etc), NOT by how many movements a subsidized airline can operate at its hub

[Edited 2013-06-15 23:55:47]

User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 849 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8103 times:

Quoting PW100 (Reply 4):
Well, BA is a foreign airline for a US poster . . .

Given that BAs parent IAG is a listed company and has sizeable Spanish and other non UK shareholders you could argue that BA is at least an International or even a foreign airline from a UK [but not EU] perspective - but that's a whole big argument we don't want to get into on a Sunday morning....


User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7920 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 3):
He did say "foreign airlines", so you'd have to drop BA from the LHR list.
Quoting PW100 (Reply 4):
Well, BA is a foreign airline for a US poster . . .
Quoting jumpjets (Reply 9):
Given that BAs parent IAG is a listed company and has sizeable Spanish and other non UK shareholders you could argue that BA is at least an International or even a foreign airline from a UK [but not EU] perspective - but that's a whole big argument we don't want to get into on a Sunday morning....

Thank you for the support jumpjets, but regrettably it was more of me quickly reading what A380s were landing at an airport (totally missing the foreign airlines bit).

Weirdly though, I have lived in London for 2.5 years, and I still consider BA a foreign airline. It is hard to give up what you know to be domestic/foreign.

Regards,

Team



Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 629 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7842 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 8):
An airport/market can prove its weight by how many foreign airlines service it and type of aircraft they use to that airport

I have followed your approach and made a list of all the destinations served by A380 operators at today's date June 16th, 2013.
This list is subject to change in the next months (with BA introducing the aircraft in its fleet, AF ceasing A380 service to SIN and starting service to PVG, LH resuming MIA for the winter season, etc.)
I have included CZ domestic operations from CAN, but not included the hubs from where a given airline operates its A380 routes (ie CAN for CZ, FRA for LH, SYD for QF, etc).



A380 MAIN DESTINATIONS :
---------------------------------------------


HKG - 6 (SQ, EK, QF, KE, MH, TG)

LAX - 5 (SQ, QF, AF, KE, CZ)

CDG - 4 (SQ, EK, MH, TG)
JFK - 4 (SQ, EK, AF, KE)
LHR - 4 (SQ, EK, QF, MH)
NRT - 4 (SQ, AF, LH, TG)

FRA - 3 (SQ, KE, TG)
PEK - 3 (EK, LH, CZ)
SIN - 3 (EK, AF, LH)

JNB - 2 (AF, LH)
MEL - 2 (SQ, EK)
PVG - 2 (EK, CZ)
SFO - 2 (SQ, LH)
SYD - 2 (SQ, EK)

AKL - 1 (EK)
AMS - 1 (EK)
BKK - 1 (EK)
DME - 1 (EK)
DXB - 1 (QF)
FCO - 1 (EK)
IAD - 1 (AF)
IAH - 1 (LH)
ICN - 1 (EK)
JED - 1 (EK)
KUL - 1 (EK)
MAN - 1 (EK)
MUC - 1 (EK)
ZRH - 1 (SQ)

Please do correct me if I am wrong.
On a side note, we could draw some interesting geopolitical conclusions from this list and how it evolves in the future  

[Edited 2013-06-16 03:00:14]


I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7733 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 11):
I have included CZ domestic operations from AND OLD: Guangzhou - Baiyun (CAN / ZGGG) (closed), China">CAN, but not included the hubs from where a given airline operates its A380 routes (ie AND OLD: Guangzhou - Baiyun (CAN / ZGGG) (closed), China">CAN for CZ, FRA for LH, SYD for QF, etc).

Ok it's debatable but you should include QF @ MEL, its not usually regarded as an international hub (just ask the Victorians!). I believe the A380 aircraft USUALLY operate SYD-DXB-LHR-DXB-MEL-DXB-LHR-DXB-SYD AND SYD-LAX-MEL-LAX-SYD.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7668 times:
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Quoting Azure (Reply 11):

Thanks that's what I was looking for.


User currently offlineSFJeff From El Salvador, joined Dec 2009, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 11):
Please do correct me if I am wrong.

One addition: SFO -1 (LH).



Jeff in San Salvador
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7232 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 8):
An airport/market can prove its weight by how many foreign airlines service it and type of aircraft

A very strange yardstick. In my book it is measured on the number of passengers. Don't care if the airline is domestic or foreign and don't care what equipment they use.

Quoting g500 (Reply 8):
NOT by how many movements a subsidized airline can operate at its hub

Love to see your support for claiming EK is subsidized.


User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 1558 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7101 times:
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Quoting Azure (Reply 11):
Please do correct me if I am wrong.

MIA -1 (LH)



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 629 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6534 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 12):
it's debatable but you should include QF @ MEL

It is debatable indeed but MEL is not a destination per se from SYD, ie QF's hub...



Quoting SFJeff (Reply 14):

SFO is already included in the list and it is served by 2 carriers, LH and SQ !



Quoting Miami (Reply 16):

This list includes only flights at today's date. MIA is serviced seasonally by LH. Please read my post entirely !



Quoting cmf (Reply 15):
A very strange yardstick. In my book it is measured on the number of passengers. Don't care if the airline is domestic or foreign and don't care what equipment they use.

The purpose of this thread was to find out which airports were getting the most A380 flights.



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3387 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6303 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 11):
Please do correct me if I am wrong.

YYZ - 1 (EK)
YUL - 1 (AF)



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13263 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6107 times:
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First, Airbus' recent update on their A380 flying map:
http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamili...eraircraft/a380family/a380-routes/

Obviously updated for Paris.  

If we're going to go off predictions, here is the original 'official' one. Now this 2007 Airbus presentation on where the A380 would fly (note: pdf):

http://www.mp.haw-hamburg.de/pers/Sc...de/2007/EWADE2007_Schmitt_A380.pdf

Comparing to page #13,
1. Indeed, zero A380 flights to South America
2. Australia to Asia is light (only HKG-SYD so far)
3. No flights yet to quite a few destinations.

One thing that stands out is that A380 production was supposed to be at a vastly higher rate than we've witnessed.   Partially as delays pushed the A380F operators to other pastures.

Quoting cmf (Reply 15):
In my book it is measured on the number of passengers. Don't care if the airline is domestic or foreign and don't care what equipment they use.

   It is about connections and frequency.

Quoting cmf (Reply 15):
Quoting g500 (Reply 8):
NOT by how many movements a subsidized airline can operate at its hub

Love to see your support for claiming EK is subsidized.

I too would like to see evidence of EK's 'subsidy.' If anything, they are keeping broke Dubai afloat! G500, please read their annual reports.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinetsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 629 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6072 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 11):
JFK - 4 (SQ, EK, AF, KE)

JFK also gets the LH 380 at least part of the year


User currently offlinePhilInBRN From Switzerland, joined Jun 2009, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5956 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 11):
ZRH - 1 (SQ)

ZRH will get a second A380 service in January 2014 when EK will change from 77W to A380 on the afternoon flight to DXB. I don't expect to see any other foreign airline to begin A380 service to Zurich in the short/medium term. The most likely candidate would be TG, but that would be a very long stretch since they only use their A346 to ZRH. But who knows what QR is up to in the next decade.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5948 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 18):
Quoting Azure (Reply 11):
Please do correct me if I am wrong.

YYZ - 1 (EK)
YUL - 1 (AF)

AF is not operating the A380 to YUL currently. Their schedule shows 3 daily CDG-YUL: one 744, one 77W, one A343. I think the A380 has far too many premium seats for YUL in the summer which is largely low-yield leisure traffic.


User currently offlineSFJeff From El Salvador, joined Dec 2009, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5755 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 17):
SFO is already included in the list and it is served by 2 carriers, LH and SQ !

Sorry; I overlooked that. However, SQ is not currently operating A380s to SFO. According to the SQ website. SQ1 and SQ15 are both 777-300ER. IIRC, SQ operated the A380 to SFO only for a short time last winter as a seasonal change.



Jeff in San Salvador
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5461 times:

LH only flies their A380 into SFO seasonally, ~ March to December. AF flew in their A 380 for one Summer and has not flown in for the past two Summers. SQ flew their A 380 to SFO last Winter for ~ 4 months. No word if they plan on returning for W13.

Rumor, EK will start A 380 service 3/14.



John@SFO
25 Post contains images Azure : Correct. My mistake ! So the table after correction stands as follows : A380 MAIN DESTINATIONS : --------------------------------------------- HKG -
26 Post contains images tortugamon : It looks like JFK, LAX, and NRT have a significant number of A380 movements yet no A380s call those airports home. Interesting. Well there was the or
27 Post contains images Azure : And how about mentioning HKG as well ? Since EK has not been abiding by the IFRS norms so far, it is difficult to compare their accountings with thei
28 Post contains links cmf : Not a limit g500 respected in his comment that I responded to. PwC put their name on a legal document stating they do. "In our opinion, the accompany
29 Azure : My bad ! And thanks for correcting me : I was forgetting the FY2013 was their first year to present accountings according to IFRS. Therefore you shou
30 cmf : I only went back to 2008 but all of them are according to IFRS.
31 Azure : I double checked and I was wrong on this point. The rest is valid, again.
32 cmf : What other than using the EXIM bank remains? And why is EK using EXIM a big issue?
33 mozart : We had that debate before. It is true that EK benefits from those credit export schemes. You may want to call that "subsidy" if you like. But by that
34 Post contains images lightsaber : They were also optimistic on number of airlines that took up the A388 and the production rate. I still believe once A388 production is increased, sal
35 Aircellist : At first glance, Arbus' map quoted by Lightsaber gives six destinations for LAX
36 Post contains images Azure : To my knowledge,EXIM is not involved in the A380 case, but similar European Institutions (such as COFACE). Why is it a big issue ? Please ask Air Fra
37 Post contains images Aircellist : Sorry… Culpable of diagonal reading
38 cmf : Don't think of EXIM as the US EXIM specifically but the function. What those airlines think about EXIM used in selling airlines doesn't isn't relevan
39 mozart : Fine, then let me re-phrase it: You can look at a doped Olympic athlet and a normal person and say "the doped athlet has an unfair competitive advant
40 Azure : Ok. I am taking your analogy : airlines from the OEM countries are athletes in a wheelchair, and all the others are not physically-challenged athlete
41 Post contains images lightsaber : Ok. But the US and Europe excluded their own airlines from the deals. Its for the two to sit down and hash out rules... rules that would make life ea
42 glbltrvlr : I was surprised at the number of LHR A380s taxiing or at a gate that showed up in various wide shots during the recent Airport Live on BBC2. Mostly QA
43 Fastphilly : LAX has quite a selection of Super Jumbos. I noticed LH isn't flying their big bird to LAX. I would imagine LAX could fill more passengers to FRA than
44 thegeek : Can anyone tell me the numbers of A380 daily/weekly flights at each airport?
45 Fastphilly : Wrong. A market is indeed measured by the amount of Foreign carriers/equipment. Passenger counts isn't accurate to how strong a market is in an era o
46 jumpjets : A high proportion of the 388 flights out of Heathrow leave between 8pm and 10pm - Both QFs daily 388 flights leave as do two of the SQs flights, 2 EK
47 cmf : Then I'm sure you can provide published examples to support your claim. Because In my book a passenger is a passenger if they fly on a strong local c
48 g500 : LH flies the A380 to SFO and not LAX because SFO is United's major West coast hub
49 Fastphilly : You will not find an airport/region with weak international service out perform an airport with both domestic and a strong international network. Per
50 cmf : How is that confirmation of your statement that only international airlines count?
51 Fastphilly : There is a level of prestige/global importance that an airport/region receives when you see foreign tails from countries all over the world operating
52 qf002 : It's a bit messy, but looking at weekly operations: HKG - 6 (46) - SQ (7), EK (14), QF (4), KE (7), MH (7), TG (7) LAX - 5 (42) - SQ (7), QF (14), AF
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