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Paris Air Show 2013 Airbus - EADS Orders Part 1  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 509 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 79882 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

The much awaited 2013 Paris Air Show is upon us and we have decided it would be appropriate to run two main threads on the major LOI / MOU / Order announcements.
This thread is for Airbus and EADS announcements.



Additionally, we realise that many Military Contracts may be announced. We ask that those be posted for discussion in our Military Aviation & Space Forum. 

Though we understand there will be split orders, having the official threads should make it a lot easier to track orders for each OEM and make for a good reference for the future of the site.

In relation to Regional and other orders such as ATR, Bombardier, Embraer, Sukhoi, Mitsubishi and COMAC etc or any major new developments of new frames or further news of R&D in existing projects please feel free to go ahead and post a thread as normal, or in an existing thread.



Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
276 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1804 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 79656 times:

I wonder how serious Qatar Airways's A330 order will be? They will already be recieving 5 or so more 787s this year and more 787s and A350s next year.


لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10706 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 78901 times:

Don't know. According to some media, the order was a "done deal" but maybe it was just speculation. Let's find out in the coming days  

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 1):
They will already be recieving 5 or so more 787s this year and more 787s and A350s next year.

I understood it is not enough for Mr Baker. He would love to double the delivery numbers.

[Edited 2013-06-16 04:53:21]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10706 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 73695 times:

Airbus will announce an order for at least 10 A380 aircraft:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...der-over-4-billion-from-doric.html

[Edited 2013-06-16 12:27:36]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineRJA321 From Jordan, joined Mar 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 73618 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):

Airbus will announce an order for 10 A380 aircraft

I believe these will be for Royal Jordanian!   


I know they're not but one can only dream RJ will be able to handle the A380 some day; it'll be one beautiful aircraft!



Hurry up, before we all come to our senses!
User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 73311 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):

Airbus will announce an order for 10 A380 aircraft:

Excellent! Thanks for the prelude.
 


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24834 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 72819 times:

ILFC supposed to announce order for 50 additional A320NEO's

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ilfc-p...ace-5-billion-order-192409097.html

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1446 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 71791 times:

Anyone have any idea who these Doric Asset Finance Ltd A380s will go to? I am guessing not EK & SQ who finance their A380s through.


If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24834 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 71361 times:

Doric owns almost 20 A380s. Majority leased to EK and a few to SQ.

However unlike traditional lessors that buys planes and has the commercial risk to find homes for them, Doric focuses on more simply the financial transaction and things like immediate sale and leaseback with airlines. They are more a broader asset management company as they also do other things including real estate investments and involvement in the energy sector.

Anyhow, its almost certain the deal here is for aircraft that already have a home, so the order might be for someone like EK exercising their 380 options under Doric's name.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10706 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 70972 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Anyhow, its almost certain the deal here is for aircraft that already have a home, so the order might be for someone like EK exercising their 380 options under Doric's name.

Maybe, but Tim Clark would prefer to announce the order by himself?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineBA0197 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2011, 273 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 69799 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
Airbus will announce an order for at least 10 A380 aircraft:

The top of order we have been waiting from BA?


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30565 posts, RR: 84
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 68823 times:
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Quoting BA0197 (Reply 10):
The top of order we have been waiting from BA?

I'm thinking a top-up from QR. They appear to plan a buying binge at PAS per media reports.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4859 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 68338 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
Airbus will announce an order for at least 10 A380 aircraft:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0....html

Could the announcement be that of a NEW A380 operator?

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently onlineScipio From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 841 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 68200 times:

Here is an interview with Doric founder Mark Lapidus, dating from April 2011. In this interview, he is very bullish on the A380.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...der-mark-lapidus-talks-a380s-49016

Some interesting quotes:

"We like the A380 as an investment, but many people still do not get it and we are happy if it remains that way."

"if the fuel price keeps on rising, more fuel efficient aircraft will become significantly more valuable, and the A380 leads the way here."

"we told Airbus that we are interested in ILFC’s A380 positions and would be pleased to hear back, even if at the back of the queue in 2016 or 2017 because I am certain it is not long before new A380 orders will start piling up."

On BA's A380 order:

"Today they have about 50 747-400s. With the industry’s growth in mind, they will need at least 50 A380s, 19 is a joke, especially as the third runway at Heathrow is a known myth. And if you take into account the planned savings from the economies of scale with Iberia and the amazing growth Brazil is leading in South America, IAG should be probably looking at 70 A380s."


User currently offlineicebird757 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 662 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 68114 times:

Maybe an announcement from JetBlue about either A330's or A350's or 787's since Barger mentioned last year in China the company is looking at these a/c types for future long haul service to South America.


LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
User currently onlineScipio From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 841 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 68037 times:

And another interview with Lapidus:

http://www.doric.com/fileadmin/Doric...apply_DNA_template_beyond_A380.pdf

Quotes:

"We believe the A380 is still undiscovered by many airlines and we see plenty of routes where the A380 will offer unbeatable economics to new operators who have not yet ordered it."

"And Lapidus is very bullish on the prospects of the A380 as an investment asset, stating that the A380 will probably have the longest life span of any other aircraft in the market today."


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 65195 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Anyhow, its almost certain the deal here is for aircraft that already have a home, so the order might be for someone like EK exercising their 380 options under Doric's name.

The article does mention all-Y main deck, which fits EK. Although, I do find it odd that they mentioned this at all. You'd think new carriers would leave configuration info until later. While, at the same time, it seems odd to focus on that of all things, if the order was for EK.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7204 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 65056 times:

I know this thread isn't for rumors but I had an insider say that a Japanese LCC is expected to order a number of Airbus A320s. I think it's an expansion effort by Peach.


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12888 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 64928 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
Airbus will announce an order for at least 10 A380 aircraft:
Quoting BA0197 (Reply 10):
The top of order we have been waiting from BA?
Quoting BA0197 (Reply 10):
I'm thinking a top-up from QR. They appear to plan a buying binge at PAS per media reports.

I hope for a new operator. But that is the enthusiast in me. I claim no insight into the A380 sales at Paris this year.


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineRickNRoll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 782 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 64887 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 16):
The article does mention all-Y main deck, which fits EK. Although, I do find it odd that they mentioned this at all. You'd think new carriers would leave configuration info until later. While, at the same time, it seems odd to focus on that of all things, if the order was for EK.

If the configuration is one of the most important details for the finance company, that would be the reason for it being mentioned. It means they believe this will help give a better long time value to their investment.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 64819 times:

Apparently the order is from a leasing firm:-

"Airbus SAS is set to win an order for more than 10 A380 double-decker airliners valued at more than $4 billion from lessor Doric Asset Finance Ltd., people familiar with the transaction said.

Doric is scheduled to announce the deal as early as today as the 50th Paris Air Show begins, said one of the people, who asked not to be identified because the negotiations are private. The London-based company plans to outfit the superjumbo with all-economy seats on the lower deck, the person said."


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...der-over-4-billion-from-doric.html



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9977 posts, RR: 96
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 64625 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 20):
Apparently the order is from a leasing firm:-

This was mentioned somewhat up-thread..

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
Airbus Said to Win A380 Order Over $4B From Doric Asset
Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 7):
Anyone have any idea who these Doric Asset Finance Ltd A380s will go to?
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Doric owns almost 20 A380s. Majority leased to EK and a few to SQ.
Quoting Scipio (Reply 15):
And another interview with Lapidus:

The latter two are well worth a read  

Rgds


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 64427 times:

Hi, astuteman. I was answering lightsaber above  :-

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
I hope for a new operator.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineplanesntrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5448 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 63684 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 20):
an order for more than 10 A380

So, like, 11?  

Sorry, but I just have never liked the "more than..." comment that journalists use.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 63380 times:

There will be Airbus announcements at

10:00
11:00
12:00

Local time

[Edited 2013-06-16 23:43:14]


A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
25 KarelXWB : "more than" usually means firm + options.
26 scouseflyer : So first one in ten mins - wonder if they'll start slowly or go straight in with the big multi billion E order?
27 Post contains links starbucks : Yes, live feed at: http://event.airbus.com/airshows/bourget2013/home.html at the moment it says "Live webcast coming soon..." and "Stay with us, next
28 KarelXWB : It's past 10am and still no live steam available. Is there another url?
29 Post contains images starbucks : NOt that I know of.... The Next announcement at: 10:00 has disappeared as well..
30 Post contains links KarelXWB : > ILFC ordering 50 more #A320neo, taking total to 150 #PAS13 http://twitter.com/Airbus/status/346540611068903424 http://twitter.com/FlightDKM/statu
31 Post contains links Scipio : Airbus expects A380 order revival, as airlines seek to capture traffic growth... >> But the spark needed to reignite sales will be "a mindset ch
32 Post contains images Luxair : There is a livestream right know but unfortunately without audio
33 scouseflyer : Boooo obviously someone wasn't quite ready to sign! Over to Boeing now
34 Maxair : I've pictures but no sound.........
35 macc : is that 10.00 announcement about the ILFC order?
36 vfw614 : Where do you get the "pictures but no sound" livestream? I still have the "Live Webcast Coming Soon" at "event.airbus.com/airshows/bourget2013/" ?
37 KarelXWB : So far, yes.
38 Asiaflyer : Reuters reports that Airbus will announce order(s) for 20 A380. 17-Jun-2013 15:57 - LEAHY - AIRBUS EAD.PA WIRD AUF PARISER LUFTFAHRTSCHAU 20 BESTELLUN
39 Post contains images Luxair : A lot of hot air as usual?!!! a bit disapointing...
40 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : And here is the press release: http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...s-50-more-a320neo-family-aircraft/
41 KL577 : Somehow, everytime an A380 order is in the air, there is always a little sprankle of hope in me that visions a big blue KLM A380..... But then the ra
42 Post contains images KarelXWB : There was a time that ordering 50 aircraft was impressive
43 neutrino : Yeah, that was before the crazy 200 or so mega orders of AirAsia, Lionair and the like. *sigh*
44 BlueSky1976 : Take it easy. Those mega-orders are still exception, not the rule.
45 Post contains links KarelXWB : Here we go: > Large Doric A380 model on front desk at #PAS13 is probably a clue to what's about to transpire... > Doric Lease Corp to order 20 #
46 scouseflyer : Boom! We'll have to see who the customer(s) are as they are a LeaseCo who don't tend to order speculatively.
47 Post contains images scbriml : So is the live feed working for anyone? "To order 20 A380", so this is an LoI/MoU? And is it 20 or "up to 20"?[Edited 2013-06-17 02:09:20]
48 Post contains images starbucks : Negative..
49 Post contains images travelavnut : So 5 frames shy from this years target! Anybody any idea for which carrier these wil be be?
50 Scipio : Nice. Largest non-Emirates A380 order yet ...
51 Maxair : Again no sound!!.......................
52 GLAGAZ : It says its because of bad weather that they are currently unable to stream.
53 Unflug : "Bad weather conditions at the show prevent us from performing live streaming" Funny, isn't it?
54 KarelXWB : It's a MoU, to be firmed later this year.
55 Post contains images scbriml : If you have pictures, consider yourself lucky!
56 Post contains links and images bobmuc : At http://event.airbus.com/airshows/bourget2013/home.html "Bad weather conditions at the show prevent us from performning live streaming"
57 Post contains images chiad : By the sound of it .. 20 firm orders. If so ... a pretty darn good start for Airbus. 20 A380's 50 NEO's
58 vfw614 : Just noted a message at airbus.com: "Bad weather conditions at the show prevent us from performing live streaming" ???? What weather conditions can pr
59 Post contains links Scipio : Here is the press release: http://event.airbus.com/airshows/bou...ndmark-agreement-for-20-a380s.html The aircraft will be marketed to "existing and ne
60 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Press release here: http://event.airbus.com/airshows/bou...dmark-agreement-for-20-a380s.html#
61 Post contains images scbriml : Unfortunately, not firm yet. Press release clarifies it as an MoU. Still, a somewhat unexpected customer and a sizeable commitment.
62 sierra3tango : I assume (as its only a MoU) that we will not be told who the end users will be?
63 Post contains images KarelXWB : We've seen MoU's all the time, just give it a few months
64 eclipz : Thunderstorms in Paris area
65 Post contains images scbriml : Oh, I have no doubt it will be firmed.
66 garpd : All that hoopla for an MoU? (MoU can be as good as orders, but can also evaporate into nothing) I was hoping for a nice firm order from one or multipl
67 Scipio : My reading of the press release is that the end users may not be determined yet. Doric seems very confident in its ability to place these frames, tho
68 Post contains images india1 : Noooo ... only 3 - you forget the LH 2 frames that they announced sometime back but are yet to confirm
69 Post contains links Scipio : In other news, RR is working on an improved version of its engine for the A380 (the Trent-900EP2), promising a 0.5-0.8 percent fuel burn improvement b
70 scouseflyer : Add another 10 for QR and it'll be a good year, although there will be the IT cancellation to come at some point.
71 Scipio : I didn't forget, and didn't write that. Something went wrong while you tried to quote travelavnut.
72 RickNRoll : Rolls are still working on the A340 engine? "The current production standard engine for the Airbus A380 is the Trent 900EP (enhanced performance), an
73 anfromme : Just because a model is out of production it doesn't mean you stop supporting and improving it. RR (as well as Airbus) are likely to still have contr
74 Post contains images astuteman : Look on the bright side. It's about 1/10 th of the hoopla we'd be getting if there was no sign of anything on the horizon for the A380 Rgds
75 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Lufthansa A320neo model being put on front desk, standby http://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/346569419255857152[Edited 2013-06-17 03:11:24]
76 Post contains links KarelXWB : And done: Lufthansa firms order for 70 A320neos and 30 regular A320s. #airbus #PAS13 http://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/346570212340006912
77 Post contains images bobmuc : Why are the 2x A380 not included from the original plan?
78 Post contains images KarelXWB : Maybe later? This is just the first day
79 cerecl : Are we expecting anymore orders today?
80 scouseflyer : Hmmmm, maybe they're going to order some more than 2?
81 Post contains images frigatebird : Although I wouldn't be surprised to see a great deal of those ending up at EK anyway I'm sure we'll have a lot of A-net threads about which airlines
82 Post contains images PM : Who's Doris and what does she know about it?
83 Post contains images frigatebird : ooops, you caught me there!
84 KarelXWB : It's done for today.
85 Post contains images Pihero : When are you guys going to be satisfied ? 50 + 70 NEOs = 120 + 30 CEOs = 150 + 20 MOUs for the A380 That on the first day ?
86 garpd : Touché good man, touché!
87 Luxair : I know and of course it still is. My disapointment was more regarding the A380 but i hope/wish so much that many more A380 orders will come in the fu
88 Post contains links chiad : Pihero (Reply 85):50 + 70 NEOs = 120 + 30 CEOs = 150 + 20 MOUs for the A380 Thanks for the wrap-up
89 KarelXWB : I'll do the same in this thread. For today we have: > Lufthansa: firm 70x A320neo + 30x A320ceo > ILFC: firm for 50x A320neo > Doric: MoU for
90 Post contains images chiad : Thanks Karel. User flood will be busy this week.
91 bobnwa : Sure looks like a rumor to me.
92 Post contains links chiad : Here's a nice recap of all orders. http://www.pdxlight.com/pas13.htm
93 Post contains images flood : not much to update so far and it's quick to do... just trying to resist the temptation of adding more crap
94 Post contains links Scipio : Two more pieces of information: No agreement yet on Lufthansa's order for 2 A380s: http://news.yahoo.com/lufthansa-conf...-order-airbus-a320s-10385498
95 KarelXWB : I bet Leahy tries to sell them the 2 open delivery slots in 2015.
96 Post contains images cerecl : I am satisfied, just wanted to know when to stop refreshing screen for a while... Maybe they want to combine them with the 50 A350s for a better pric
97 scouseflyer : I'd bet that he's currently negotiatign on exactly that or maybe Air ZImbabwe have got there first.......
98 Post contains images scbriml : On the whole, not much business gets done after lunch.
99 Post contains links Scipio : And more info on the Doric deal: - deliveries will take place from 2016 to 2021 - engine choice to be made before year-end - the all-economy main deck
100 mffoda : Doric's entire WB portfolio consists of 27 aircraft: 18 - A380's (13 Emirates & 5 Singapore) 6 - B777's ( 5 Emirates & 1 Cathy) 2 - A340's (V
101 Post contains images EPA001 : It sure is. And the 20 of this MoU will be firmed up pretty soon I guess. . Great news. . That would even be better, but that is all speculation yet.
102 Post contains links Scipio : That is not the way it seems, from Lapidus's and Leahy's statements: >> "We see how airlines that do not yet have the A380 are interested in it
103 Post contains links KarelXWB : Emirates would never announce an order for new A380s in this way. Tim Clark must be present and the whole deal should be around Emirates. Reading thro
104 mffoda : There very well could be a new operator or two. But I see the majority being placed with EK and SQ. Doric is a company with $7 billion in assets, and
105 KarelXWB : Sure, but that doesn't mean it has to be EK.
106 mffoda : Agreed and I didn't say it "had" to be. I implied that it is more "likely" to be, since 66.6% of Doric's WB assets are their already...
107 Post contains images KarelXWB : All right. Time will tell
108 francoflier : It's certainly a good way to leverage risk, which might win over a few hesitant operators. That said, I have a feeling at least some of these frames
109 ZEDZAG : If the engine choice is not known by now, it doesent have to be EK, it would be EA engines if it were. Or is this a gameplay to mask the real custome
110 Post contains links Scipio : Another article on the Doric deal, from Airbus: http://event.airbus.com/airshows/bou...th-its-agreement-for-20-a380s.html Informative quotes: > Lap
111 scouseflyer : I'm wondering if this A380 order is a way of allowing airlines such as CX and TK who have been sitting on the fence regarding the big bird to try it o
112 Post contains images sturmovik : Sure, get all the orders out of the way for a spectacular flyby with the A350! Who's Cathy and what does she need a 777 for?
113 Post contains images mffoda : She's a really Big girl!!
114 rj777 : I'm curious. Does any money ever exchange hands before the airplane is delivered? And if so, if the program never comes to light (say in this case the
115 travelavnut : I think you might be right, I could also imagine that Doric will share some risk with Airbus themselves, maybe an insurance package of some kind in c
116 sturmovik : I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the payments are phased. An order usually has a deposit that goes along with it. If the A358 is cancelled or put int
117 Post contains images columba : Or the other way around LH ordered 50 787s and 2 A380s from Airbus Does not sound too bad then
118 KarelXWB : Customers start paying once they signed a firm order. They also pay a bit when the frame enters production and final assembly etc. Correct, they plac
119 A380900 : Is Doric a front for Airbus for some kind of "satisfied or your money back" offer? What I mean is that maybe Airbus is taking on some of Doric's risk
120 Extra300 : After today's orders, Airbus backlog exceeds 5000 units! Crazy
121 Post contains links and images mffoda : 85.1% of Doric's WB portfolio is with EK/SQ. I would say that makes them Doric's best customers?? You yourself posted up thread the folloing: "- Leah
122 motorhussy : The John Leahy of today is quite a different PR man than the JL of yore. Once he was bombastic and full of overstatement on demand and, significantly
123 Post contains links Stitch : Very likely "no". How Doric operates is that they buy a plane from a customer and then lease it back to them for a period of between 10 and 12 years.
124 N14AZ : Thank you, on my way back home I was thinking how to phrase my assessment of this MoU but this summarizes it perfectly. For me this is defenitely not
125 dhr : I tend to agree with this conclusion, it's got to be operators who most likely can't afford to go out and order them directly and very little (apart
126 Post contains images lightsaber : First, thank you for the explanation. Not as strong an order as I would have liked, but it is an order. Lightsaber
127 N14AZ : Order? It's just a MoU.
128 BigJKU : It is a way to tell airlines that someone out there is willing to finance A380's and not a whole lot more than that. Doric is the partner at risk in
129 Post contains images Stitch : The benefit is that Airbus doesn't need to use their own money to sell / lease A380s. Because Doric is able to find people and institutions willing t
130 mariner : Would you rather it had not happened? mariner
131 N14AZ : No, I wouldn't say that. I was just wonderring why Lightsaber speaks of "order" when it's just a MoU.
132 KarelXWB : And Doric will also do the marketing instead, that's why they will get access to "exclusive sales/marketing support and data".
133 AeroWesty : Let's play devil's advocate for a moment (that's always fun). Say you wanted to hire yourself out as a consultant, but even though you had all of the
134 mariner : I can't speak for Lightsaber, but I suppose I think of MOUs as orders - tentative orders, sure, pencilled in, not confirmed - but the first step in a
135 Post contains links and images Scipio : That could well be the case. To some extent, Doric and Airbus may be intent on marketing these 20 airframes together (hence the sharing of marketing
136 gemuser : Can I just add that this method of financing is not unique to Doric. This is exactly the same method used to "purchase" the B767-336s QF had on lease
137 Hamlet69 : As usual, an excellent explanation, Stitch. Thanks for that! *shrug* I think the skepticism is understandable, even if it does turn out to be misplac
138 Post contains images lightsaber : And that is what it comes down to, perspective on the value of the orders. I hope I am being a pessimist. You run a risk analysis on the chance each
139 astuteman : I'd be astonished if Airbus haven't learned that lesson It's the A380. That's what you get on here That they have the confidence to do so (and state
140 fcogafa : Is anyone able to do a count of commitments and MOU's announced at the last Paris show against those actually firmed up since? It would make an intere
141 mariner : The caveat to that is that I think the expectations of some are unrealistically high. Any "order" - including MOU's - even just an aircraft or two, i
142 Stitch : Doric sets a lease rate that ensures that at the end of the term the airplane is unencumbered by any debt. So they own the plane free and clear when
143 art : Yes, interesting to learn about the method used to manage and finance each asset. Not sure what's unusual about needing to sell an investment proposa
144 Post contains links and images mffoda : Listen Scipio, This is not in anyway meant to be personal or disparaging of your opinions or contributions to the forum. But, just because I or any o
145 Scipio : Exactly. They could have opted to finance a fleet of B777s. Yet, they opted to finance a fleet of A380s... Nothing. Except, for this forum, when the
146 PanAm_DC10 : So which are the correct totals for the first day of the show? From Airbus; - Doric Lease Corp’s Memorandum of Understanding to acquire 20 A380s - L
147 Asiaflyer : So no A350 orders at all on the first day. Is Airbus planning a big A350 day with order announcements and fly-by on Wednesday?
148 pnwtraveler : I would love to know who the investors are that buy the shares in the aircraft that Doric has in its portfolio. That I have a feeling would explain a
149 Stitch : Reading the "Doric Nimrod Air Two Limited Statement re Asset Managers Report" for 02 April 2013, the shares are denominated in pence and the shares a
150 Post contains links mariner : Anyone who has money to invest and wants an attractive - and guaranteed - return. It happens already - groups of wealthy investors put money into a m
151 Post contains images zkojq : Why would Singapore or Emirates take one of these Doric aircraft? If they ordered the aircraft themselves they would be entitled to a larger discount
152 FAEDC3 : Don't forget that the Doric order is to be furnished and completed by 2021, that is 8 years from now. Doubling your assets in 8 years of operation is
153 InsideMan : While this may be different for the A380, traditionally leasing companies get the most favorable pricing, not airlines. Besides, Doric said they woul
154 francoflier : I find it amazing that airlines are still ordering CEOs at this stage. I haven't looked much into it, but I expected CEO slots to not really be avail
155 Post contains links mariner : Nothing is for free - money costs money. If an airline buys an aircraft, the mortgage costs money. It is a big bunch of money to borrow and a lot of
156 tortugamon : I would not say that they are not concerned about resale; they just price in that risk premium into the cost of capital calculation when determining
157 mffoda : Both very good points! it's always nice to have some other points of view.. As FAEDC3 suggests... "Don't forget that the Doric order is to be furnish
158 mariner : Why? It remains essentially the same basic deal that Doric did on the first Singapore A380 - without the intermediate participation of Airbus Finance
159 francoflier : The A380 is so far only operating with major carriers, all of which have carefully designed interior products, especially on their A380s. And furnishi
160 astuteman : Sorry but I disagree with this. Airbus have made it clear that their primary drive on the A380 is to drive the maximum profitability from it. Rgds
161 col : Of all the leasing companies you quote, which one has the experience on the 380 - Doric. It has been successful for them, so what do you do stand sti
162 tortugamon : Then you miss my point, I think this does drive more profitability for Airbus. The revenue may be a little less (more discount) than if it was a norm
163 douglasyxz : It is all about delivery slots. LH needs these 320 very early, too early for the NEO backlog. It has been stated that once the NEO production rate go
164 Post contains images mffoda : Of all the Leasing companies "I quote"?? The only Leasing company I mentioned beside Doric, that has ordered the A380 is IFLC and they have cancelled
165 PM : She's a friend of Doris. Does that imply that one OEM will get the lot? Surely it rather depends on who the end users are? Or are Doric going to stri
166 N14AZ : I have no doubts about this. But so far they took over airframes, which had been ordered by airlines before, meaning there was a certain "guarantee"
167 slinky09 : A great first day and good A3870 boost. Anyone know the timings of Airbus press events on day 2?
168 Post contains links flood : Easyjet press release: [...] "subject to shareholder approval, it has entered into arrangements (the "New Framework Arrangements") with Airbus S.A.S.
169 Post contains links mariner : The more intriguing question is why aren't any of the other leasing companies making money from the A380, as Doric is doing? A few - not standard les
170 sturmovik : Not bad at all! This was always Airbus' order to lose.
171 BoeingVista : I don't see Airbus losing any of its NB customers to Boeing in the MAX / NEO fight.
172 FAEDC3 : It is called "relative asset volume" and it is the reason why a big bank cannot grow at the same rate as the smaller banks... Being big as ILFC or GE
173 Asiaflyer : SilkAir went for 737MAX.
174 Post contains images sturmovik : And easyjet's CEO recently said that Boeing was a credible competitor to replace their fleet. It may have been negotiation through the press, but it
175 Post contains links BoeingVista : Ok Silk, but they stand alone. http://www.pdxlight.com/switch/737toneo.htm
176 Post contains links planesntrains : Knock me over with a feather. http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2498 -Dave
177 flyglobal : For me the A380 lease deal is there fo s simple reason: To lower remaining doubts and risk of airlines whether the A380 could be a success for them. S
178 MillwallSean : Why this thread is so full of people that wants to question or come with skepticism towards Airbus orders always amazes me. And its the same every yea
179 Post contains images Farzan : SK? Widebodies
180 tortugamon : Big win. Good for Airbus. Who knows if U2 was sincere with negotiations but I bet they got a great deal. tortugamon
181 KarelXWB : The CEOs have early delivery slots. CEO slots are now down to just above 100. ILFC canceled their order during the financial crisis - which was a sma
182 Post contains links PM : Poor reporting by ATW??? "Airbus kicked off its week at the Paris Air Show ... announcing a batch of new aircraft sales totaling more than $23 billion
183 spink : Because Doric really isn't a leasing company per se. They are more of a financial middle man than anything else historically. They certainly aren't a
184 B747forever : I would be shocked if SK placed an order for any airplanes.
185 affirmative : Ordering 20 a380 with delivery during a timeframe between 2017 and 2021 is also an intelligent move to block delivery slots. It will undoubtedly fall
186 na : If you read the forecasts of A and B then the numbers for A380s will grow a lot. There is no other way, with the next and folowing PIPs the A380´s C
187 Post contains images maxter : This probably belongs in THAT other thread, but to balance the argument, Boeing probably gave some massive discounts to win this one...
188 BoeingVista : And its an order from November 2012, Boeing haven't managed to win an Airbus NB customer before or after with the MAX.
189 Post contains images neutrino : So does that mean Airbus is giving enormously massive discounts to keep their customers and to win over Boeing's?
190 Post contains images InsideMan : Are Doris and Cathy FAs on an A3870? That would imply that Doric is a front for AFS (Airbus Financial Services), which it is not. I suggest everyone
191 goosebayguy : Seems very quiet today. No orders?
192 KarelXWB : Only the easyJet announcement. I believe they're done for today.
193 Post contains images BoeingVista : I think that Airbus now give bulk discounts on orders of more that 100 units, its proving to be a popular offer..
194 LJ : There are some slots left. Moreover, Airbus is probably anticipating the fact that Kingfisher will not take up the remaining 60+ A320 CEOs and thus n
195 Extra300 : Would be nice with some A350 orders
196 Post contains images B747forever : It is Boeing's day today with the launch of the 787-10 Joking aside Airbus had a great start yesterday and there are plenty of days for more orders.
197 scouseflyer : There's a number of firmings for the A350 that are likely this week - AF/KLM, BA etc so maybe tomorrow?
198 Post contains images flood : On the engine front, LATAM has selected Pratt to power their NEOs, ACG selected Pratt to power 12 NEOs (their other 18 are CFM) and BOC has selected C
199 rheinwaldner : And as Doric seems to find a business case for the A380 ... why don't the others? A single MAX&exA320 operator is negligible facing the phalanx o
200 goosebayguy : I thought the 350 flyover was tomorrow to coincide with a flurry of 350 orders?
201 RayChuang : One thing I'm still watching for is what LH will announce as the replacement for the A340-300 and some A330-300's on long-range routes. Will LH delay
202 Extra300 : I´ve heard here at a-net that the will not make any WB order until the end of this year
203 francoflier : It's not a terribly huge market. And it is riskier than with most other aircrafts. Doric must have insights or partnerships for that particular busin
204 Post contains links Unflug : Syphax (Tunesia) signs MOU for 3 CEO and 3 NEO: http://www.airbus.com/no_cache/press...rders-the-a320neo-and-the-a320ceo/
205 Post contains images EPA001 : Indeed. And it is Boeing's day today. If both OEM's would be announcing "big twin orders" both will not get the light of the full positive publicity.
206 Post contains links and images flood : Their MoU was already announced half a year ago http://twitter.com/Airbus/status/291185578815410176 I was hoping to see them firm it at the PAS. btw,
207 someone83 : LH has said after the summer/Q3 all the time
208 Post contains links flood : Possible Doric candidate? According to indoflyer and citing their CEO, Garuda is planning to announce an order for either the A380 or 748 in the near
209 KarelXWB : I don't think so, Garuda is looking for a delivery in 2015 while Doric will get the first A380 in 2016.
210 flood : Ah, didn't see you had already started a thread with the Bloomberg article. Still wouldn't rule it out though, as the article merely states they "coul
211 pnwtraveler : Thanks Stitch. What I was getting at is if a new shareholder has taken a big chunk and is more speculative than the previous shareholders and hence t
212 planesntrains : It's pretty interesting that someone can make a pretty safe statement that this EasyJet order was Airbus' to lose, and someone has to jump in make an
213 Post contains images Miami : I'm still waiting for Airbus to announce the A380-900.. I wonder who will order the A389...
214 BoeingVista : I see this as the way things are rather than A v B, call me when another Airbus customer goes MAX, I wont be sitting by the phone waiting for your ca
215 Post contains images Stitch : Being around two years earlier to market than the 737MAX probably helped A320neo sales... And let us not forget that airlines were the ones who force
216 Post contains images neutrino : Ryanair?
217 BoeingVista : Yup, no denying. No, this does not follow. They wanted Boeing to offer something competitive, Airlines may be looking at the MAX and saying that comp
218 rheinwaldner : It was certainly Airbus order to lose. But we are not speaking about orders that were to lose. We are speaking about orders that were lost. There cer
219 Post contains images sturmovik : What I meant with my original statement was that Airbus were most likely going to win this order. Perhaps the wording caused the confusion, I was not
220 Post contains images airbazar : Doesn't Airbus still have 2 delivery slots available for 2015?
221 Post contains images Stitch : So Boeing offers the NSA, which would have been more competitive, but four or more years later to market. Airlines say "eh...how about offering us so
222 primetimeDC9 : Can you show the fuzzy math or is this a baseless assumption on your part? They sure are fooling a lot of people if it is indeed fuzzy. Also for argum
223 primetimeDC9 : I meant to say EasyJet went Airbus
224 ODwyerPW : I'm pretty sure Stitch was being sarcastic.
225 neutrino : No worries. Your choice of words is clear enough on what you meant. It is is also commonly used in that context. Seems the word "lose" is a bit touch
226 KarelXWB : Yes but maybe LH will take those slots.
227 Miami : Roberto Alvo, Chief Corporate Officer of LATAM Airlines Group, stated that the A380 is interesting possibility. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
228 EddieDude : No, easyJet ordered 135 Airbus narrowbodies.
229 Post contains links Scipio : The Air France A350 order could be firmed up tomorrow... http://news.yahoo.com/air-france-a35...r-back-spat-sources-172605364.html
230 RayChuang : I still think LH is more and more attracted to the A350XWB-900 to replace the A340-300. The A343 are some of the oldest long-range jets in the LH flee
231 jben : I can't help but get a certain joy from Air France signing for a large number of Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engines with a maintenance agreement. That's go
232 Post contains links tortugamon : Here is another source with similar info: "Air France (AIRF.PA) looks poised to sign a long-awaited $7 billion deal to buy 25 Airbus (EAD.PA) A350 je
233 planesntrains : But - again - that wasn't your original point, and your original point was rather pointless - no one had said anything about the MAX beating the NEO
234 BoeingVista : Boeing NB market share goes from 50/50 to 40/60. You take this as a ringing endorsement of the MAX? Yes I could but I'm not going to, the issues with
235 planesntrains : Because this is a thread announcing and celebrating EADS orders, yet you made an inaccurate statement about the MAX. Should people just let your comm
236 BoeingVista : No, people read into the statement what they wanted to see as you have done again, try reading the post you just selectively quoted from properly.
237 tortugamon : ....So how about AF coming through with the A350 order.....
238 Post contains images planesntrains : I will happily let you have the last word. "People" can make up their own minds. Geesh, who expected this to take so long? Glad it's finally done as
239 mffoda : This is where your 60/40 argument falls on its face. The backlog is just that "backlog". Deliveries is the "Actual" market share. If both companies p
240 Stitch : The A320 Classic has outsold the 737NG in 10 of the past 13 years, yet over that time the tally is 1.06 A320s sold for every 1.0 737NG. So ask me aga
241 rheinwaldner : Ok, ok, you were of course right about what we were talking. Sorry. The duration until that backlog is worked through is long enough (by far) to adju
242 BoeingVista : Totaly bogus. What you do is build another factory to service the backlog, it may have escaped you so I'll inform you that Airbus is currently buildi
243 Post contains images astuteman : It stopped being that the moment the Doric MOU was announced and the prospect of A380 orders was mentioned (and on A-net too - the nerve of it ) And
244 Post contains images Stitch : It was off the rails even before that with folks posting speculations and rumors of orders. Of course, this is a.net - we have more tangents than a G
245 Post contains images planesntrains : Hmm...well, I can understand why some would see it that way. I didn't take it as anti-Airbus but maybe that's just me? Personally, if it had been a m
246 mariner : And yet they manage. American Airlines came a tad late to the Neo party, but - shazam! - Airbus found them some pretty good slots. It is rumored - on
247 sierra3tango : Any press conferences / announcements due today?
248 scbriml : Indeed. It's even less of a burden when your only realistic competitor is in exactly the same position. I'm with the Astute one on this - a 4-5 year
249 Post contains images KarelXWB : It's actually the same source, copied from Reuters The day has yet to start
250 Post contains images tortugamon : i tried tortugamon
251 Post contains images frigatebird : My first thought was that EK would take a few, but listening to Tim Clark's interview to Bloomberg that won't be the case. So we could see some inter
252 chiad : When will the first announcement for Wednesday be held?
253 Scipio : Air Austral did firm up its order. But is reconsidering it...
254 Post contains links KarelXWB : ILFC leases four A330-200s to #Aerolineas Argentinas: http://twitter.com/e_russell/status/347268774111612928
255 PM : The first one (MSN 364) has already been registered in Argentina.
256 Post contains images PM : Next Airbus announcement in 10 minutes...
257 flood : I don't know if it's an order announcement, but on their Le Bourget website they indicate some kind of announcement at 10:45 local, less than 10min f
258 Post contains links KarelXWB : And Air France personnel is gathering around the Airbus building. http://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/347272700781289473
259 PM : 'bout time!
260 Post contains images KarelXWB : An Air France and KLM A350 model are visible: [Edited 2013-06-19 01:51:19]
261 BoeingVista : AF/KLM confirm A350 XWB, deal signed after first flight.. Live now. They will fly for both AF and KLM first delivery to AF in 2017. 25 firm + options
262 ba319-131 : - Do we have a breakdown of type? - 900's or 1000's or a mix of both?
263 KarelXWB : It's all -900.
264 scbriml : AF/KL has ability to change to -1000 if wanted. Next announcement at 11:15 Paris time.
265 BoeingVista : All -900's at the moment but with the flexibility to move up to -1000's Breiger is expecting more A350 sales today...
266 slinky09 : And the second test flight of the A350 is scheduled for 1.30 pm today weather permitting ... Will there be more A350 orders today I wonder?[Edited 201
267 Post contains images KarelXWB : Hmm, who could this be
268 BoeingVista : Interestingly RR deal is complete but not complete At the news conference RR said 1) All customers have the right to maintain their own engines 2) T&a
269 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : And here is the press release: > 25 firm > 25 options http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...klm-confirms-future-with-a350-xwb/
270 na : The end of the A343 and 77E fleets at AF then. What will they replace at KLM? Some of the earlier 744 Combis which have had recent D-checks to fly un
271 76er : Next announcement postponed till 0945Z/1145CET.
272 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : SriLankan taking six A330-300s from Oct 2014 and seven A350-900s from 2017. http://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/347292068860801024 [Edited 2013-06-19
273 scbriml : A330s firm, 4 x A350 MoU, 3 to be leased.
274 flood : If I understood correctly, 6x A333 firm + 4x A359 (MoU) plus another 3x A359 coming from lessor
275 cerecl : Sri Lankan Airline, 6 A330-300 firm to replace A342, and 4 A350-900 (MOU) to replace A330-200. An additional 3 A350-900 will be leased. Total worth $2
276 Post contains links moderators : Part 2 now available: Paris Air Show 2013 Airbus - Eads Orders Part 2 (by moderators Jun 19 2013 in Civil Aviation)
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