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First Pic Of Egyptair's B777ER In Toronto  
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14503 times:

Egyptair inaugurated the 4 times weekly service between CAI and YYZ on June the 3rd .


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Photo © Nigel Harris-CYYZ Aviation Photography




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26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2290 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14502 times:

How can you not love a 773ER when it looks like that? Beautiful and very elegant livery.

User currently offlineb777erj145 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14270 times:

Quoting wingman (Reply 1):
Beautiful and very elegant livery.

Yup very beautiful livery indeed.

Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
Egyptair inaugurated the 4 times weekly service between CAI and YYZ on June the 3rd .


I think this route has stopover in Rome and I think 1 out of 4 flights will be operated by B787. If I remember this info correctly. I need to go and check www.airlineroutes.net for that.


User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14256 times:

Quoting b777erj145 (Reply 2):
I think this route has stopover in Rome and I think 1 out of 4 flights will be operated by B787. If I remember this info correctly. I need to go and check www.airlineroutes.net for that.

You are mixing Egyptair with Ethiopian Airlines  



A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently offlineb777erj145 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13911 times:

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 3):

Yeah my bad. I just got mixed up with the names. Sorry


User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13889 times:

Quoting b777erj145 (Reply 2):
I think this route has stopover in Rome

And at least once a stopover in PIK  


User currently offlineflightsimboy From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13442 times:
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And here it is on Jun 8th, on it's way to Rwy 23 for the nonstop back to Cairo!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7375/8991955708_db6b96a9fe_c.jpg


User currently offlineflyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13313 times:

yields on this operation are super low. Can't imagine MS will make any money.. but hey when you're run by the government anything goes.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 13223 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 5):
Quoting b777erj145 (Reply 2):
I think this route has stopover in Rome

And at least once a stopover in PIK

That flight was to JFK not YYZ.


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2182 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9902 times:

Quoting flyyul (Reply 7):
yields on this operation are super low. Can't imagine MS will make any money.

Do you mind sharing your sources on this? Keep in mind that MS is in Star Alliance, and AC's hub in YYZ can provide connections to many destinations to Canada, the US, Mexico, Central America & the Caribbean.

Canada is one of these few countries that has been wise enough to not let EK penetrate their market too much, so there is ample room for plenty of competition to other Middle-Eastern large cities and hubs.

Quoting flyyul (Reply 7):
but hey when you're run by the government anything goes.

Is MS actually govt run?



When I doubt... go running!
User currently onlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5057 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9519 times:

Quoting flyyul (Reply 7):
yields on this operation are super low. Can't imagine MS will make any money..

Much like EY and EK, MS negotiated a deal with the GTAA, allowing no landing fees in YYZ.

I always found it so ironic that an EK A380 arriving from DXB paid less to land at YYZ, than AC paid for an E175 from YOW!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4448 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 10):
Much like EY and EK, MS negotiated a deal with the GTAA, allowing no landing fees in YYZ.

I always found it so ironic that an EK A380 arriving from DXB paid less to land at YYZ, than AC paid for an E175 from YOW!

i highly doubt EK still gets that treatment at YYZ. Usually deals like that last a year or two, and then you get the same treatment as anyone else. Same goes for EY. These airlines have been at YYZ for what, 5, 6+ years now.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 737 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4100 times:

Congrats MS!!! Great to see them make it to YYZ, with their initial plans being delayed due to troubles at home.

User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3981 times:

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 9):
Do you mind sharing your sources on this? Keep in mind that MS is in Star Alliance, and AC's hub in YYZ can provide connections to many destinations to Canada, the US, Mexico, Central America & the Caribbean.

It's isn't hard to figure out that Egypt-Canada is a low yield market. If MS couldn't make YUL work, which is also a Star hub and has a bigger Arab population, its hard to see how they will make money with YYZ.

The reality is, both markets are VFR low yield, and even with the fact that YYZ offers greater connection opportunities, all it will do is drive up loads, but not necessarily yields.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently onlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5057 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3582 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
i highly doubt EK still gets that treatment at YYZ. Usually deals like that last a year or two, and then you get the same treatment as anyone else.

5 years for both. EK and EY.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3342 times:

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 6):
And here it is on Jun 8th, on it's way to Rwy 23 for the nonstop back to Cairo!

Very nice pic , thanks for sharing ..
Any idea on load factor on the first few flights ?



A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently onlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5057 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3278 times:

This is great news.

My sister, with a passion for archeology, has always wanted to visit Egypt. This new non-stop pushed me to finally taking her. We are booked this autumn, and ... at around $3000 each for Business Class and great rates on hotels and tours, its a very good deal.

I am well aware of some 'strife' in that area, but ... life is too dull without risk.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 16):
at around $3000 each for Business Class


for 21 hours of business class seating pleasure, that is a very good price ! Even economy is going out dirt cheap, 1100$ R/T.

If this isn't the definition of low yield, i don't know what is.

Just to compare, AC has YUL-CDG-YUL (13 hours R/T) in business class for September 2013 going for 5600$

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2071 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):
has a bigger Arab population

Is that actually true in absolute numbers or is that true proportionally? The GTHA has a large Arab population. But given the diversity in the GTHA, that may not be noticeable. But then again, YUL has Ottawa in its catchment area.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 14):
5 years for both. EK and EY.

I am curious why the GTAA would do this. What's in it for them?


User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3222 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 18):
Is that actually true in absolute numbers or is that true proportionally? The GTHA has a large Arab population. But given the diversity in the GTHA, that may not be noticeable. But then again, YUL has Ottawa in its catchment area.

100,000+ Arabs for YUL (not including Ottawa) vs 75,000 for YYZ. As per 2011 census.

And yes, add Ottawa in the mix, and Montreal's numbers are closer to 135-140,000.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-06-18 09:12:46]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineflyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

I'm sure MS is getting great yields with a $3000 business class fare on a 6,500 mile sector! And 49J seats for that huge premium market as well.

User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2992 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):
It's isn't hard to figure out that Egypt-Canada is a low yield market. If MS couldn't make YUL work, which is also a Star hub and has a bigger Arab population, its hard to see how they will make money with YYZ.

It seems that YUL Arab population is more French-speaking North African (Morocco, Algeria, Tunis) with some Lebanese/Syrian while other Arabs make most of the population in YYZ.
If it wasn't for AC and MS being in the same alliance, it'd have been very doubtful MS be flying to YYZ.

An interesting development for MS would be to re-start CAI-LAX (another Star Alliance hub) this time via an European airport. Because CAI-YYZ-LAX wouldn't work because U.S: may require passengers to go thru U.S. Port-of-Entry at YYZ and slots at YYZ may not be so easy to get.
For some reason I don't see MS trying CAI-GRU non-stop and going after passengers flying EK, EH, QR, or Star Alliance ET and TK..



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2882 times:

In my opinion , Egyptair can afford to sell J class tickets that cheap because their overhead expenses are no where near the likes of AC , LH , ...etc .
Much lower staff wages , no union pressure , low cost of living in home country....etc.
It is to note that Egyptair had 5 consecutive years of profit , only last year they recorded a loss due to the political unrest .



A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently onlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5057 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 18):

I am curious why the GTAA would do this. What's in it for them?

I can only imagine it increases the international flavour of the airport, and reduces the huge dependence upon Air Canada. I notice that in all of the Egyptair adverts promoting the new non-stop, there is a small GTAA logo. That makes me think that they too got a deal from the GTAA.

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 22):
It is to note that Egyptair had 5 consecutive years of profit

And that literally and figuratively is the bottom line!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 22):

In my opinion , Egyptair can afford to sell J class tickets that cheap because their overhead expenses are no where near the likes of AC , LH , ...etc .
Much lower staff wages , no union pressure , low cost of living in home country....etc.
It is to note that Egyptair had 5 consecutive years of profit , only last year they recorded a loss due to the political unrest .

Their #1 overhead expense is fuel, and it is expensive for all airlines, especially on an eleven and a half hour trek from CAI to YYZ.

Second, just because MS is profitable as a whole doesn't mean all routes it operates are profitable.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

Hard to believe there's demand for 4x weekly 773 service to CAI (strife or not). Looks like they are fighting for the same markets as ET and perhaps EK, EY and SV.

Quoting flyyul (Reply 7):
yields on this operation are super low. Can't imagine MS will make any money.. but hey when you're run by the government anything goes.

Just like AC.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 23):
I can only imagine it increases the international flavour of the airport, and reduces the huge dependence upon Air Canada.

A good business strategy for the GTAA. AC, as a money-losing slow growing, government supported, legacy carrier, is not a good anchor tenant for YYZ.

[Edited 2013-06-19 10:30:12]


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 26, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 25):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 23):
I can only imagine it increases the international flavour of the airport, and reduces the huge dependence upon Air Canada.

A good business strategy for the GTAA. AC, as a money-losing slow growing, government supported, legacy carrier, is not a good anchor tenant for YYZ.

What support does the government give to AC? I can't think of much. In fact the government is more of a hindrance than a support due to legislative restrictions on AC dating back 25 years to their government ownership days, which other Canadian carriers aren't burdened with.


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