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Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family  
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 8773 posts, RR: 29
Posted (10 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 23751 times:

Embraer will launch its second-generation E-Jet at the Paris Air Show today. The E-Jet E2 family, as the airframer is dubbing it, will include three variants:

> 80-seat E-175
> 97-seat E-190
> 118-seat E-195

The E-170, will be dropped. The E-190 E2 will be the first to enter service, in the first half of 2018. The E-195 E2 will follow in 2019 and the E-175 E2 in 2020, says Embraer.



Story here:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...y-with-launch-of-new-e-jet-387169/

[Edited 2013-06-17 02:33:55]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11572 posts, RR: 61
Reply 1, posted (10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 23639 times:

Finally - good to see this announced, although it was really the worst kept secret in aviation!


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26508 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 23601 times:

Yes its great to see this. Hopefully it will attract alot of interest from both existing E Jet customers and new ones.


AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4265 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 23502 times:

Are these aircraft, especially the 195-E2 longer then the earlier versions or will they just manage to squeeze in 3 more rows by slimmer seats, less pitch, removing the bulkhead aft, removing galleys?


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1801 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 23484 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

It's interesting to see that the revised E95 now has 2 overwing exits! I hope the dispatch reliability will improve as the current Ejets have a habit of breaking down a lot.

Martijn



Fly DC-Jets!
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3906 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 23371 times:

How do they plan to cram 144 seats into the E195 fuselage? Surely that must be typo? Even at 118 seats, it is a tight fit. Or will the E195 be stretched?

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 8773 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 23365 times:

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 5):
Or will the E195 be stretched?

Yes, the airframe will be stretched.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3906 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 23291 times:

So it will be a E190-300.... That makes sense.

User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 23278 times:

I always thought a RE E175 would be favourite to replace KL's F70 fleet' but with EIS not earlier than 2020 this will probably be too late.


146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT3,ATP,E90,F50/70,M11,
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 23198 times:

The E195 is already a headache for ground ops... The holds are a frustration for ground staff and it is a pain in the a$$ to balance... unlike other aircraft where an uneven distribution of pax onboard does not make a huge difference, the E195 simply makes loadplanners mad... I am one of them -.-"

I expect the stretch to be even more of a problem for ground ops....

[Edited 2013-06-17 03:24:29]


Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3906 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 23064 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 8):
I always thought a RE E175 would be favourite to replace KL's F70 fleet' but with EIS not earlier than 2020 this will probably be too late.

Well, KL and other operators do not have a choice - there is nothing else available if they do not want to buy turboprops. Makes perfect sense for Embraer to push those sub-types with which they compete with Bombardier.


User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 22977 times:

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 10):
Well, KL and other operators do not have a choice - there is nothing else available if they do not want to buy turboprops

How about MRJ? KL said they were taking a close look at them as possible F70 replacement.

[Edited 2013-06-17 03:47:04]


146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT3,ATP,E90,F50/70,M11,
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 22651 times:

The stretch of the E195 puts it right into CS100 territory, albeit with an EIS a few years later. This will get exciting...
P.S. I assume the E195E2 must be a small stretch, as even with slim seats, galley reconfiguration etc I don't see that 3 rows can be gained.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 8773 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (10 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 22602 times:

And they have a launch customer: SkyWest orders 100 E-175 E2 aircraft to launch 2nd generation E-Jet program.

http://twitter.com/ATWOnline/status/346594237078462464

Quoting r2rho (Reply 12):
The stretch of the E195 puts it right into CS100 territory

Correct!



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3906 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (10 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 22481 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 11):
How about MRJ? KL said they were taking a close look at them as possible F70 replacement.

Forgot about the MRJ - albeit for a reason: With all the delays of this programme, it remains to be seen how far away from the MRJ's EIS the E175E2's EIS will be in the end....


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2793 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (10 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 22178 times:
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Parabens! Great news! I am happy for the amazing people inside Embraer and to Brazil, one of the world's most fabulous places!

It is great that Embraer has upgraded it's already great product (from a passenger POV) - from an RJ standpoint in general, they are FAR more comfortable. In fact once I caught a United E170 from ORD to White Plains (I often fly NYC to LGA - which was always on an old 737, A320 and occasional 757) and I found the E170 to be equally wonderful if not more. I was in Explus, but it was the way the 170 felt in flight, it's newness etc was joyful.

How long before we see the last E145 and CRJ's go? United out of EWR has 41,000 E145's coming and going every day. "Dear God, please get the new United E175's to Newark ASAP."



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 22100 times:

Embraer is going to need to keep the MTOW of the E2-175 under 86,000 pounds, and economics to be attractive at 76 seats, or leave DL/UA/AA to seek scope relief from mainline pilots - again.

http://airinsight.com/2013/05/03/sco...-new-regional-jets-a-coming-storm/


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6729 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (10 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 21992 times:

So is there a range increase and fuel decrease? what is the difference? I need to see some numbers...


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 8773 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (10 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 21551 times:

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14):
Forgot about the MRJ

Today Mitsubishi said FAL start will begin within 2 months and it should fly at the end of the year.

http://twitter.com/tohmavis/status/346549031113203712

  



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (10 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 21330 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 13):
And they have a launch customer: SkyWest orders 100 E-175 E2 aircraft to launch 2nd generation E-Jet program.

So Skywest is pretty much going to be getting rid of all CRJs in favor of the MRJ and the E2.....interesting to see the route pairings they end up with after this overhaul.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 18):
Today Mitsubishi said FAL start will begin within 2 months and it should fly at the end of the year.

This was pretty much the common buzz around here in Japanland for the last few months. Remember the thread I began about the MRJ a while ago? haha



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 19824 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 18):

Today Mitsubishi said FAL start will begin within 2 months and it should fly at the end of the year.

Thanks for the update. The program has had its setbacks and I'm sure will face many more challenges, but they'll get there. I think lots of airlines are on the fence regarding both C-Series and MRJ, and even more about real performance data and reliability once the GTF is in service.

But Embraer already has 365 orders and options for their E2 series at launch, which is mighty impressive!    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ith-deals-for-365-aircraft-387226/



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT3,ATP,E90,F50/70,M11,
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12431 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 18222 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Does anyone know any details of the 'new wing?' Is it an extension? CFRP (unlikely I know, but I thought I'd ask)? Just wing tip treatments? Did they stick with a common wing? (Images hint otherwise, but I'm not sure with the E-175-E2.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...or-re-engined-e-jet-family-372681/


Skywest and ILFC... Nice launch customer base for day #1.  http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...-show-embraer-idUSWEB006RY20130617

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 18):
Today Mitsubishi said FAL start will begin within 2 months and it should fly at the end of the year.

Good to hear. And the winner is Pratt!   

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineHNLPointShoot From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 18093 times:

Interesting, the E-195 E2 will be entering service around the time HA will probably be looking for a 717 replacement.   

User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3901 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (10 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 17853 times:

I see the E195 E2 HD variant aimed very much at easyJet and to a lesser extent the hybrid European carriers like airBerlin, new germanWings, etc, I think it would be a massive boost for the programme to secure easyJet and really take the wind out of the C Series sails.


Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4091 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 17764 times:

Doesn't Boeing have a patent on raked wingtips? And I thought that they were intended for long-range flights, and did not offer much benefit over standard wingtip devices on shorter stages.

Either way, looks interesting, and I certainly hope these will be replacing CR2s/CR7s by the end of the decade...


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7524 posts, RR: 43
Reply 25, posted (10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 18316 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 12):
The stretch of the E195 puts it right into CS100 territory, albeit with an EIS a few years later. This will get exciting...

And it is also inching closer to the A319 and 737.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 13):
SkyWest orders 100 E-175 E2 aircraft to launch 2nd generation E-Jet program.

Congrats to SkyWest and Embraer! This is fantastic news! How will Embraer formally designate them? E2-195? E-195 2.0? E-195NG?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 715 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 18402 times:

I don't mean to disparage the E2 program or rain on the parade, but I have a genuine question. Why would an airline commit for 100 firm orders for types that are not going to enter service for the next 5 years and not look at the CSeries which is very close to EIS, would be very mature by 2018 and potentially have engine PIPs further boosting it's performance? A fleet of 100 should make fleet commonality and pilot re-training insignificant. So what gives?

User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1832 posts, RR: 23
Reply 27, posted (10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 18614 times:

Quoting HNLPointShoot (Reply 22):
Interesting, the E-195 E2 will be entering service around the time HA will probably be looking for a 717 replacement.

I would say that HA might be better off with the 319NEO for commonality. Heck, maybe even upsize to the 320NEO and get some increased capacity on inter-Island flights along with the ability to fit in runs to the mainland. Or maybe even a CS300 for the same reasons, capacity and range. Or alternatively, move to all turboprops for inter-Island travel.

I wouldn't think the E195 E2 would be the front-runner in that contest. But anything can happen.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12431 posts, RR: 100
Reply 28, posted (10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 18558 times:
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Quoting HNLPointShoot (Reply 22):

Interesting, the E-195 E2 will be entering service around the time HA will probably be looking for a 717 replacement.

HA will naturally bid off the E2 vs. CS100/CS300.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 27):
Or maybe even a CS300 for the same reasons, capacity and range.

With the A321NEO doing the run to the mainland, I could see HA buying a dedicated short haul aircraft and they are *the* short haul airline IMHO.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2716 posts, RR: 2
Reply 29, posted (10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 17190 times:

Quoting golfradio (Reply 26):

I don't mean to disparage the E2 program or rain on the parade, but I have a genuine question. Why would an airline commit for 100 firm orders for types that are not going to enter service for the next 5 years and not look at the CSeries which is very close to EIS, would be very mature by 2018 and potentially have engine PIPs further boosting it's performance? A fleet of 100 should make fleet commonality and pilot re-training insignificant. So what gives?


Assuming you are talking about SkyWest, ignoring commonality with their E175 order from a couple weeks ago, there's a issue with the CSeries that makes it problematic for SkyWest. It's too big. The aircraft need to remain within the scope clauses of OOs partners, and the E175 is at the top of the allowable size. Even the smallest CSeries is too large.

[Edited 2013-06-17 13:40:26]


It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 715 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 16934 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 29):

Thanks. Scope clauses ... now I get it, in the context of Skywest. I still wonder about the ILFC order for the 25 E190 + 25 E195, though it's just an LOI and not a firm order.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11572 posts, RR: 61
Reply 31, posted (10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16457 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):

Does anyone know any details of the 'new wing?' Is it an extension? CFRP (unlikely I know, but I thought I'd ask)? Just wing tip treatments? Did they stick with a common wing? (Images hint otherwise, but I'm not sure with the E-175-E2.

The span is larger. Below is a very quick graphic I knocked up using a 3D E190 model I had to hand - it's overlayed onto the E2-195 model so terribly accurate but enough to give you an idea of the span. The E2-175 has a slightly different wing - still a greater span than the current E-175.




Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 383 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16000 times:

Congrats to Embraer!      

A great plane gets even better...

One thing I'm curious is how they're gonna fit 132 standard config Y seats on this thing. I'd like to know the official length of the -195e2, but with 33 rows @ (presumably) 32" pitch, that makes for one LONG fuselage. Will the -195 be severely range-restricted, or will the new wing and engines give it comparable range to the current -190?

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 23):

I see the E195 E2 HD variant aimed very much at easyJet and to a lesser extent the hybrid European carriers like airBerlin, new germanWings, etc, I think it would be a massive boost for the programme to secure easyJet and really take the wind out of the C Series sails.

I think it will get plenty of European interest & orders, but I don't know if this necessarily gives it an advantage over the Cseries for airlines like Easyjet. Keep in mind, many were wondering whether the 160-165 seat high density capacity offered by the CS-300 would be large enough for Easyjet's needs, and the -195 is a full step lower than that even.


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 5925 posts, RR: 34
Reply 33, posted (10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 14781 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
Does anyone know any details of the 'new wing?' Is it an extension? CFRP (unlikely I know, but I thought I'd ask)? Just wing tip treatments? Did they stick with a common wing? (Images hint otherwise, but I'm not sure with the E-175-E2.

No detail specs in the press release via Rueters

Quote:
New aerodynamically advanced, high-aspect ratio, distinctively shaped wings, improved systems and avionics, including 4th generation full fly-by-wire flight controls, and Pratt & Whitney's PurePower Geared Turbofan high by-pass ratio engines (PW1700G on the E175-E2, PW1900G on the E190-E2 and E195-E2) will result in double-digit reductions in fuel consumption, emissions, noise and maintenance costs, and increased aircraft availability.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12431 posts, RR: 100
Reply 34, posted (10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 14705 times:
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Quoting golfradio (Reply 26):
and potentially have engine PIPs further boosting it's performance?

E2's and C-series will have *very* related engines. In effect, E2 development will pay for and test a C-series PIP. They will each benefit from 'economy of scale' from the other.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 31):
The span is larger.

Thanks. I was wondering on fuel tankage and it looks like a small increase, but not a lot. There will be more range added than just engine efficiency, but not a lot from first glances.

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 32):
Keep in mind, many were wondering whether the 160-165 seat high density capacity offered by the CS-300 would be large enough for Easyjet's needs, and the -195 is a full step lower than that even.

IMHO this will force Bombardier to develop the CS500.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 603 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 14036 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 18):
Today Mitsubishi said FAL start will begin within 2 months and it should fly at the end of the year.

http://twitter.com/tohmavis/status/346549031113203712

4 months to complete final assembly and first flight ? The first flight will be in 2014, at best.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
Does anyone know any details of the 'new wing?' Is it an extension? CFRP (unlikely I know, but I thought I'd ask)? Just wing tip treatments? Did they stick with a common wing? (Images hint otherwise, but I'm not sure with the E-175-E2.

I can't see E-jet E2 with the same wing. The first time I see FTV1, I was incredibly amazed by the size of the engine.


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 5925 posts, RR: 34
Reply 36, posted (10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13995 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 35):
I can't see E-jet E2 with the same wing.

As per Rueters link above... "New aerodynamically advanced, high-aspect ratio, distinctively shaped wings.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinespeedbird2263 From Jamaica, joined Jul 2006, 470 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13860 times:

Quoting golfradio (Reply 26):

Scope. I believe Skywest is banking on some relaxation of scope by DL/ UA/ AA, and whatever they are counting I'm sure still wouldn't be enough to allow the C-Series in any of its proposed configurations. Now the E175 is a known factor and is already flying for regionals. This of course is IMHO.

  
-2263



Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son ;)
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12431 posts, RR: 100
Reply 38, posted (10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13650 times:
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I found a bit more on the E2:

In a typical single-class layout, the E175-E2 was extended by one seat row, compared to the current generation E175, and will seat up to 88 passengers, while the E190-E2 keeps the same size as the E190, of up to 106 seats. The E195-E2, compared to the current E195, has grown three seat rows and will accommodate up to 132 seats.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/embrae...2-second-generation-101700731.html


From this, I take away:
1. The E190-E2 will be the same fuselage as the current E-190.
2. The E-195-E2 is going to be stretched considerably.
3. The E-175-E2 is stretched a tiny amount from the current E-175. It might be all an 'internal stretch.'


The E195 is growing by 3 rows!   

Some promises from the same link:
will result in double-digit reductions in fuel consumption,
and increased aircraft availability.    What is changing? I'll have to go through this vendor list to see if any vendors changed:
Other suppliers and partners for the E-Jets E2 have been announced previously: Liebherr (control systems for flaps and slats), Moog (fly-by-wire), Rockwell Collins (horizontal stabilizer control system), UTC Aerospace Systems (wheels, brakes, APU, electrical system), Intertechnique (engine and APU fuel feed, pressure refueling, fuel transfer, fuel tank inerting and ventilation, and fuel gauging and control), Crane Aerospace & Electronics (electronic control module for landing gear, brake control systems and proximity sensors), Triumph (fuselage segments, rudder and elevators) and Aernnova Aerospace (vertical and horizontal stabilizers).

What I do know is Embraer is being a stickler for definition of vendor parts. Well, they have been for a while...

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 39, posted (10 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12723 times:

While the E2 family sounds cool from a branding perspective, does anybody else think that E190-E2 is an awkward name?

User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4696 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (10 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 12325 times:

Quoting tharanga (Reply 39):
While the E2 family sounds cool from a branding perspective, does anybody else think that E190-E2 is an awkward name?

They could drop the first 'E' without losing its identity...190E2...rolls smoothly off the tongue. But others would immediately associate it with MB.

It becomes tricky when you get to the '5'. Anyway, this is one beautiful bird.....

http://www.embraer.com/PublishingImages/press-releases/fly_new_175.jpg
http://www.embraer.com/PublishingImages/press-releases/fly_new_175.jpg

[Edited 2013-06-17 20:46:51]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently onlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3050 posts, RR: 5
Reply 41, posted (10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 12130 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 9):
The E195 is already a headache for ground ops... The holds are a frustration for ground staff and it is a pain in the a$$ to balance... unlike other aircraft where an uneven distribution of pax onboard does not make a huge difference, the E195 simply makes loadplanners mad... I am one of them -.-"

I expect the stretch to be even more of a problem for ground ops....

Do the E195s tend to be nose-heavy or tail-heavy with an uneven passenger load? Might adding the bulk of the fuselage stretch either ahead of or behind the wing on the E2 version help to correct this load balance sensitivity?



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 4
Reply 42, posted (10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 11574 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 24):
Doesn't Boeing have a patent on raked wingtips?

I think I have read a few months ago either in FG or AW that Boeing will help Embraer with development of the E-Jet update. Surely, raked wing tips could be used by Embraer under license from Boeing, right?



All Hail Mighty Triple Seven, The MURDERER of the so-called "Queen"!!!!
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1492 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 10888 times:

Are these planes suitable as private business jets?

User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1806 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 10877 times:

Raked tips eat gate space, best wingtip device for cruise and longer routes. The P8 has them on the 737 wing even, not gate constrained.

User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (10 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10268 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 41):
Do the E195s tend to be nose-heavy or tail-heavy with an uneven passenger load? Might adding the bulk of the fuselage stretch either ahead of or behind the wing on the E2 version help to correct this load balance sensitivity?

The E195 is very tail heavy, E190 not so much, but they all have a very restricted range of balance.
Basically, if the airplane is full (of pax) you cannot load anything in the aft hold.... And the forward hold must be full.
It happened several times that on full flights quite some bags were left behind due to balance problems...
And now, unluckily, all daily flights I handle are E-Jets... LH Classic (737s and A320s) has withdrawn service and sends just regionals...



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11572 posts, RR: 61
Reply 46, posted (10 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9843 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 40):
Quoting tharanga (Reply 39):
While the E2 family sounds cool from a branding perspective, does anybody else think that E190-E2 is an awkward name?

They could drop the first 'E' without losing its identity...190E2...rolls smoothly off the tongue. But others would immediately associate it with MB.

Perhaps they should have gone with E = mb²


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4696 posts, RR: 1
Reply 47, posted (10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9109 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 46):
Perhaps they should have gone with E = mb²

Will it fly at the speed of light as a result?  .

I guess Embraer would be very pleased already if it just flew off the assembly line as fast as they could churn it out.  

[Edited 2013-06-18 14:56:02]


"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 603 posts, RR: 2
Reply 48, posted (10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8931 times:

All infos & specs about E2 here:

E175-E2:

Dimensions (Length +0,6 m):
E190-E2

Dimensions (Length unchanged):
E195-E2

Dimensions (Length +2,8m):
Engines:



User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 581 posts, RR: 8
Reply 49, posted (10 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8537 times:

SO E190G2 = + 5450 kg OEW on a 27820 kg bird = +20 % ?

Seems huge !


User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3906 posts, RR: 5
Reply 50, posted (10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8103 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 43):
Are these planes suitable as private business jets?

The Embraer Lineage 1000 is an Embraer 190 variant:

http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com/...s/lineage-1000/Pages/overview.aspx

It is a slow seller, though. 2 to 4 deliveries annually.


User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4696 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7961 times:

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 50):
The Embraer Lineage 1000 is an Embraer 190 variant:

Maybe they should come up with a Lineage 800 based on the 175E2? Takeoff perfomance and range could improve from the standard version's 2,240m TOFL for 1,920nm.....

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 50):
It is a slow seller, though. 2 to 4 deliveries annually.

That's already a good number for a business jet variant coming off the same assembly line. Should a 3,600nm nonstop range with, say 12 pax and crew be achievable, then a VIP 175E2 for regional use could attract buyers who want airliner comfort but do not require more seating and longer range...due to its likely lower costs.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=&R=3600nm%40HKG&MS=wls&MR=1200&MX=540x540&PM=*.
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=&R=3600nm...HKG&MS=wls&MR=1200&MX=540x540&PM=*


These come to mind...though they're not strictly outfitted as business jets.....

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"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5320 posts, RR: 30
Reply 52, posted (10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7928 times:

I think Emb did the right thing. They have a fine plane and you don't go all new unless you have to. Like Boeing and Airbus, their current offering just needs some new tech to keep it going into the next decade.

BBD had to go all new, which means that they may have leg up on overall efficiency but they need to invest more and they don't have a legacy on which to base future sales.

It's already a winner.



What the...?
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 603 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (10 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7789 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 51):
a VIP 175E2 for regional use could attract buyers who want airliner comfort but do not require more seating and longer range...due to its likely lower costs.

M 0.82 max speed is not enough for a business jet of this size (and price), another advantage of Global and G5/G6 bizjets. In addtion, E175 can't cruise at 51K feet, not enough range, etc. Buyers prefer real large business jets.


User currently offlineODwyerPW From Mexico, joined Dec 2004, 795 posts, RR: 2
Reply 54, posted (10 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7769 times:
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The 195-E2 is a 10' stretch over the 195. It looks like more of it was put fore of the wing. Perhaps that will cure some of the weight distribution issues with the type?

The 175-E2 is an 8' stretch over the 175..Boosting the pax count on the small end of the future E-Jets family. Whereas the 170 was a 72to75pax single class layout (not considering the HD where pitch was mixed between 33, 31 and 30), the 175 now increases the pax count to 88pax for a single class layout... The new small size for the family.

The 190-E2 is identical in length to the 190. Therefore, with no change to fuselage length, it's no surprise it is the first to launch.

[Edited 2013-06-19 18:38:41]

Surprised they just didn't go with new naming altogether like 180, 200 & 220 to Reflect >80, >100 and >120. But then, the jokes would never stop about the Embraer180, every time it had to abort a flight and return back to the airport.


[Edited 2013-06-19 18:42:07]


Quiero una vida simple en Mexico. Nada mas.
User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4696 posts, RR: 1
Reply 55, posted (10 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7459 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 53):
M 0.82 max speed is not enough for a business jet of this size

Guess the hundreds of ACJ and BBJ users missed that memo.....

http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/corporate/acj-family/acj319/

http://businessaircraft.bombardier.c...eets/Global%207000%20factsheet.pdf

http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com/.../legacy-650/Pages/performance.aspx

Quoting queb (Reply 53):
(and price), another advantage of Global and G5/G6 bizjets.

Let's see...list prices...E175E2~$48M; ACJ/BBJ~$72M; Global 7000~$62M.

Quoting queb (Reply 53):
In addtion, E175 can't cruise at 51K feet

Neither can the ACJ and BBJ.

Quoting queb (Reply 53):
not enough range,

The premised application was indicated...could extrapolate using the Legacy 650 range chart.....

http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com/...mpaign=Legacy+650+Range+Circle+App

From any city, that's already more places than one would care to visit...could stop somewhere if it's farther out.

Quoting queb (Reply 53):
Buyers prefer real large business jets.

And not all buyers have similar requirements and very deep pockets. Different folks, different strokes.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 603 posts, RR: 2
Reply 56, posted (10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7194 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 55):
Guess the hundreds of ACJ and BBJ users missed that memo.....

hundreds ???

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 55):
Let's see...list prices...E175E2~$48M; ACJ/BBJ~$72M; Global 7000~$62M.

E175E2 BJ list price will be higher, interior completion is more expensive than green frame.

ACJ & BBJ are also slow sellers. there is a reason if true business jet sell much more than the airliners BJ


User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3906 posts, RR: 5
Reply 57, posted (10 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7143 times:

Wonder if they will make the E175E2 LCY capable. At the moment, only the E170 and E190 can operate into LCY, but with the E170 gone, the only model that could do LCY would be the E190E2.

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