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UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back  
User currently offlineflybaurlax From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 638 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26966 times:

It looks like United Flight 139 is diverting to SEA from its DEN-NRT flight.

I heard through the grapevine it's engine trouble. I"ll post pictures if I see it here.

http://www.flightradar24.com/


Boilerup! Go Purdue!
81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26955 times:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...9/history/20130618/1835Z/KDEN/RJAA


The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9826 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26895 times:

Technically SEA would be a diversion and not an Air Turn Back. It wasn't a diversion to the nearest alternate since they were over 1 hour from SEA. The associated slow descent (driftdown style) from altitude is interesting. I'm struggling to think of a reason why they would descent at 300 fpm without diverting to the nearest alternate.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineflybaurlax From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26537 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 2):

Good point. Should have been divert, sorry.

Yeah there were fire truck escorts and the FAA Mercedes up to it immediately at the gate. There are guys looking under the #1 engine, cowl not open yet.



Boilerup! Go Purdue!
User currently onlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5354 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26176 times:

What is it with United and this aircraft? The word on other threads is that the 787 is presently a PITA because the monitoring systems and buggy software produce a million little squawks that have to be handled before the next flight.

However, everyone but United seems to be able to get their aircraft ready for the next flight.

Is it just that the Japanese, Polish, and Ethiopian workers put their heads down and get the job done faster and better than their United brethren?

Or is there something else going on? I know there are relatively-few data points out there, but if ANA can run 60 of these things on-time, why can't United make 5 work?

[Edited 2013-06-18 17:16:21]

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31433 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26109 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Seattle's NBC affiliate reports that the flight crew received a warning about the oil filter ( assume in one of the GEnx engines): http://www.king5.com/news/aerospace/...deverted-to-Sea-Tac-212068071.html

[Edited 2013-06-18 17:19:45]

User currently offlineAztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 609 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26098 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 4):
What is it with United and this aircraft? The word on other threads is that the 787 is presently a PITA because the monitoring systems and buggy software produce a million little squawks that have to be handled before the next flight.

However, everyone but United seems to be able to get their aircraft ready for the next flight.

Is it just that the Japanese, Polish, and Ethiopian workers put their heads down and get the job done faster and better than their United brethren?

Or is there something else going on? I know there are relatively-few data points out there, but if ANA can run 60 of these things on-time, why can't United make 5 work?

Good question, but it also could be a learning curve for the UA crews.

Also, if this was a 767, 777, or 747 (or any other aircraft) this may of been a blip on the news or not made any news at all. I think a lot of it is due to the previous problems with the 787, so the media will blow anything that happens on one out of portions. IMHO


User currently onlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5354 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26020 times:

Oh, I know we will hear about every single problem. The Japanese media, in particular, is on high alert about this aircraft. More and more, though, the Problem Child seems to be UA.

Are there any below-the-radar labor issues burbling around this a/c?


User currently offlineFirstClass From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25793 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 4):

United operates roughly 10% of the 787 delivered so far, so any issue with the 787 has quite a fair chance being one of the United birds


User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1040 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25754 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 4):
However, everyone but United seems to be able to get their aircraft ready for the next flight.

Is it just that the Japanese, Polish, and Ethiopian workers put their heads down and get the job done faster and better than their United brethren?

Or is there something else going on? I know there are relatively-few data points out there, but if ANA can run 60 of these things on-time, why can't United make 5 work?

Really then explain this article which hasn't been reported on this website it pertains to ANA and their 787's the article states that the week of Jun 12th ANA had to cancel 3 of their Dreamliner flights one was due in no small part to the fact on of the engines would even start. But yet you claim ANA is running all 60 Dreamliner's ontime. I think not.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...fter-engine-fails-to-start-1-.html

You want to come after United come after us for a real reason God knows we have plenty of things that are wrong and we need to fix but what is happening with the 788 is normal and it is happening to all operators just because its not reported on A.netters every time other airlines have issues with their Dreamliner's does not mean that those operators are not experience problems just the same.


User currently offlineklkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 946 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25713 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
Are there any below-the-radar labor issues burbling around this a/c?

This was my initial reaction, too, being as they seem to be having a lot more issues than other 787 operators. But probably just an abundance of caution (which isn't necessarily a bad thing from a passenger safety standpoint).


User currently offlineseahawks7757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 25678 times:

Here is a pic of it that has come online on the ground in Seattle-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seahawks7757/9079096923/


User currently offlineFlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 981 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 25585 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
Are there any below-the-radar labor issues burbling around this a/c?
Quoting klkla (Reply 10):
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
Are there any below-the-radar labor issues burbling around this a/c?

This was my initial reaction, too, being as they seem to be having a lot more issues than other 787 operators.

Yes, by all means, let's blame labor without a shred of evidence.

For what's it worth, the handful of guys I know on the 787s are staunchly pro-787 and rave about the aircraft. They want it to work.

Could it be that they did the right thing in reacting to a caution or warning EICAS message?

This is armchair quarterbacking at it's worst. You should know better. It's a new aircraft and will be buggy for some time.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24952 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 9):
Really then explain this article which hasn't been reported on this website it pertains to ANA and their 787's the article states that the week of Jun 12th ANA had to cancel 3 of their Dreamliner flights

From June 7-9 alone and with only six 787s, UA had more disruptions to their schedule than ANA has had all month thus far - and ANA operates 18 of them.

The issues you're referring to were reported here:
ANA 787 Engine Issue At Fukuoka (by PHX787 Jun 10 2013 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlinekalvado From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 497 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24862 times:

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 6):
Also, if this was a 767, 777, or 747 (or any other aircraft) this may of been a blip on the news or not made any news at all. I think a lot of it is due to the previous problems with the 787, so the media will blow anything that happens on one out of portions. IMHO

More interesting question is how this event would affect type statistics. Given there are not that may frames, and event being an engine issue - if it counts towards ETOPS failure rate, event may be more newsworthy than average 767/777/330 issue due to the hit on performance stats.


User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24843 times:

Is this the first service to SEA? Do they get a water cannon welcome ?     

Hope they get it figured out an turned around.

tortugamon


User currently offlinejben From Australia, joined Aug 2006, 77 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24773 times:

Oh good grief. On any given day, every airline (of sufficient size) will have at least one aircraft that has an issue. I'm waiting for a 787 to fly into heavy chop and some coffee spills onto a passenger's chair. The headline will be "passengers nearly killed by flying coffin".

No, this should be a sign that everything is working as designed. The pilots got a warning from the system involved and followed the company procedures. Everything went brilliantly. People were only mildly inconvenienced. Nobody lost anything. Also, it's a new aircraft with new engines. Every single aircraft ever introduced has problems, every aircraft has AD's and every individual plane will go tech at some point in its service life.


User currently offlinePEK777 From China, joined Jun 2012, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24751 times:

The bird was just a little homesick, wanted to visit the old neighborhood.

User currently offlineklkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 946 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24664 times:

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 12):
This is armchair quarterbacking at it's worst. You should know better. It's a new aircraft and will be buggy for some time.

You should now better than quoting someone out of context

When you quote this:

Quoting klkla (Reply 10):

This was my initial reaction, too, being as they seem to be having a lot more issues than other 787 operators.

Without including this:

Quoting klkla (Reply 10):
But probably just an abundance of caution (which isn't necessarily a bad thing from a passenger safety standpoint).

You are being misleading.


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5803 posts, RR: 47
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24603 times:

Geez, just an oil filter issue. Bet this aircraft will be back in service in 2 days max. The press has got to chill out.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineCALTECH From Poland, joined May 2007, 2322 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24441 times:

What is a 'air turn back? ' A 'air return' would see the aircraft landing back at the airport it took off from, which is serious. It did not go back to Denver, but diverted into Seattle, which is a serious event too.

Some of these posts, yeah, wow, labor issues ? How about a engine that has a delta p message for oil filter clogging, which is what it sounds like ? United should have flown the airplane until the engine might have destroyed it's bearings among other things ? Now that would have made real noteworthy news. Hopefully it is just a bad indication and the filter did not clog with material.

[Edited 2013-06-18 20:16:53]


UNITED We Stand
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2727 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24442 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 2):
I'm struggling to think of a reason why they would descent at 300 fpm without diverting to the nearest alternate.

Maybe they pulled back the power on the trouble engine to keep oil temp or pressure within limits, but kept the engine running at idle.

I have no idea what the UAL or 787 policy would be on that particular scenario but perhaps it's land as soon as practical and not as soon as possible.


User currently offlinejreuschl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24226 times:

Why didn't they bring it back to the store in PAE? "I just bought this, fix it NOW!"

 


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 24219 times:

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 15):
Is this the first service to SEA? Do they get a water cannon welcome ?

No. NH did NRT-SEA with a 787 before the grounding.


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1585 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 24061 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 2):
I'm struggling to think of a reason why they would descent at 300 fpm without diverting to the nearest alternate.
Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 21):
Maybe they pulled back the power on the trouble engine to keep oil temp or pressure within limits, but kept the engine running at idle.

ETOPS, it doesn't count as an engine shutdown if it remains at idle. I imagine the FAA will look at it anyway.



BV
25 FlyHossD : Yet you admitted that you had considered some sort of labor action, too (in addition to the earlier post by wjcandee). Perhaps the context of my post
26 flood : Looks like N26902 will be positioning as UA6854 IAH-SEA tomorrow morning to collect pax and operate as UA1749 SEA-NRT with departure 9:30 AM. edit to
27 wjcandee : Nonsense. It's a reasonable question. Someone said, "Well, 10% of the birds flying are United, so there's a good chance a problem will end up being o
28 wjcandee : Oh, please. If you get the message, you follow the procedure. I have been around here far too long to merit that kind of shot, and it was not even re
29 CALTECH : That's not how you posted it, as below. It just seemed like a cheap shot. It is a new bird and there is a learning curve. Ya think maybe ANA operatin
30 comorin : In the days of yore, (McAUTO and BCS) great pride was taken in the quality if software written, and these guys arguably wrote the book on software dev
31 flood : Obviously, but I'm not talking about substitutions in advance. When your aircraft goes tech and has to return to the gate, having another 20 aircraft
32 EK413 : No offence but Japanese have efficiency programmed in their DNA. I travelled in Tokyo last month & their transportation network operates like clo
33 Stitch : I believe both NH and JL keeps spare 787s on "hot standby" in Tokyo to sub in for a broken bird, though depending on where the original went tech, th
34 copter808 : I flew on it last Thursday, NRT-DEN with no problems, and will do it again. I've also flown aircraft as a crewmember and gotten warning lights. We di
35 Aquila3 : I am interested too, from a professional POW. Maybe would be interesting to open a topic in tech/ops , tough.
36 Post contains links justloveplanes : Done! 787 Software Incidents (by justloveplanes Jun 19 2013 in Tech Ops)
37 brilondon : It could also be a collision with a UFO like the plane in China... I love this forum, I love a good story without facts and take what is said to be t
38 softrally : Does anyone know the registration for this aircraft? I flew on this flight last Saturday on N20904.
39 flood : It was N26906. Now being substituted by 904 (UA initially scheduled 902)
40 Post contains links and images kgaiflyer : table border="0" align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote" >Quoting PEK777 (Reply 17):The bird was just a little homesick, wanted to visit the old n
41 klwright69 : The flight from NRT to DEN is cancelled today. Earlier, as in two hours ago, it showed a 19 hour delay. I then looked at the seat map. Nearly all the
42 DTW2HYD : Is it true, US based airlines have very tight turnaround times. Could this be a factor for UA 787's poor dispatch reliability and glitches. May be UA
43 Post contains links and images flood : I'm not familiar with average turnaround times but UA appears to have increased the turnaround times for their 787s slightly since before the groundi
44 Post contains links n797mx : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...4/history/20130619/1030Z/KIAH/KSEA Another 787 being ferried out to SEA on N20904.
45 catiii : What would you say the "labor issue" was that led to the crash?
46 klwright69 : If you look at UA's website and check the flight's status, yesterday's flight has been completely taken down, no delay, no cancellation, no nothing. I
47 BoeingGuy : I'm not getting it either. AA 965 was a combination of factors that had nothing to do with, say, the maintenance of the airplane or any other labor r
48 USAIRWAYS321 : The passengers needing to be accommodated would be in SEA, not DEN. Available space on DEN-NRT wouldn't prove that everyone got out the same day.
49 Post contains images glideslope : Worthless Thread. Should be closed.
50 Post contains images AeroWesty : Why? This story made the local news here in Portland this morning. The CBS station here did say that the flight was from Tokyo to Denver though, gett
51 Post contains links wjcandee : AA965 was a case of some incredibly-experienced, incredibly-competent pilots flying a perfectly-airworthy 757 into a mountain. On AA965, a major failu
52 flood : United just cancelled UA32 ORD-IAH as well... seems N27903 is stuck at ORD for now. The aircraft was later scheduled to do a second IAH-ORD-IAH run wh
53 flood : Scratch that... UA32 ORD-IAH was cancelled because N27903 is now being repositioned to DEN so it can operate the NRT flight. I guess 902 went tech in
54 EyeSky : Flight just left SEA for NRT. Nice to see a 787 here even if it was for a mechanical.
55 Norcal773 : FYI....... Ship 904 is up in the air now doing UA1749 SEA-DEN climbing out of FL250. Left gate about 45 minutes late around 10:14AM PST (was schedule
56 Navigator : I do not think you should judge Uniteds handling of this based on the limited information available. I have full confidence in United when it comes t
57 Post contains images flood : Thanks. Small typo, I know you meant SEA-NRT... good to see them on their way Originally United had scheduled 902 to do SEA-NRT but changed it to 904
58 wjcandee : Nobody's "trying" to make any conclusions. It's a question. Looking for an answer.
59 IrishAyes : Crazy. I flew UA 32 yesterday from IAH to ORD.
60 wjcandee : Interesting. I'm not saying "mistakes" per se; but I am also certainly not saying "sabotage" or even intentionally-disruptive acts. I am using the te
61 Norcal773 : Oops, Thanks for the correction, I meant NRT indeed. Ooh that would have stunk, and you bet the media and wjcandees of this world would have been all
62 Roseflyer : Every airline has problems. Subfleets have problems from time to time. However, despite labor and management problems, UA still has the largest fleet
63 klwright69 : I was talking about the return flight from NRT back to DEN. The flight was showing 19 hours late, then it cancelled. Before it cancelled, the flight
64 ADent : So 906 ended up flying DEN-SEA. 902 was scheduled to end up in SEA to fly SEA-NRT, but went technical 904 ended up actually flying SEA-NRT on 6/19 Wh
65 Post contains images flood : Got lucky! And if you had booked for today you would've ended up on a 739 DEN-NRT was operated by 903 on 6/19. Friday will see 2x NRT-DEN flights 903
66 Post contains images traindoc : Since the problem was with the GE built engine, why not divert to CVG where GE has their engine business headquartered. Just fly in and request an oil
67 Post contains links tortugamon : Rats. Not another oil issue: The Federal Aviation Administration says a United Airlines Boeing 787 flying from London to Houston was diverted to Newar
68 twinotter : Yeah, the press should only report incidents that are serious enough to have a thread in airliners.net that generates dozens of comments . . . The pr
69 CALTECH : Debris was actually found on the chip detector.
70 7BOEING7 : There is no actual procedure for low oil quantity, per se. If you see a loss of oil quantity you monitor the oil pressure (low) and temperature (high)
71 Post contains images KLAXAirport : Is the 787 safe to fly? I have an upcoming flight on UA with the 787 and I fear it is not safe with all these problems within the last few days. Cheer
72 CALTECH : The diversion into EWR was for a steady loss of oil quantity, not 'low oil quantity.' The quantity had gone from normal and double digits in quarts, t
73 wjcandee : Huh. There ya go. It was either a faulty sensor (= no actual problem) or a problem. Sad to see it was the latter.[Edited 2013-06-21 12:58:37]
74 7BOEING7 : There is also not a procedure for "steady loss of oil quantity" -- same rules apply. The pilot obviously had a conversation with dispatch and they sa
75 DTW2HYD : Is it possible other 787/GeNX airlines are not showing the ropes to UA MX? It appears they are keeping the tricks to themselves, probably not even tel
76 CALTECH : Will be interesting to see what the debris is composed of and where it comes from. While there maybe no procedure for 'steady loss of oil', when the
77 7BOEING7 : Per Boeing "There is no minimum oil quantity limit...... There are no operating limitations for the engine oil quantity: therefore there are no fligh
78 Post contains images CALTECH : There is nothing in the United Airlines QRHs for low oil quantity either. As long as oil pressure indicates normal. But in this case, with a actual o
79 7BOEING7 : Thanks for the info. Actually the LOW OIL PRESSURE checklist has the shutdown, approach and landing checklists incorporated in it these days both ECL
80 7BOEING7 : To put things in perspective, ANA has had 1200 flights between June 1st and June 20th with only 8 cancellations or delays in excess of 2 hours -- that
81 CALTECH : To put things in another perspective, maybe like the A-320, some other operators are doing resets or power downs to get rid of the messages on the 787
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