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TWA 800... A Shoot Down? New Testimonials Emerge.  
User currently offlinepenguins From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 266 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 33717 times:

Hello all,
I am sorry if this is a repost. I recently came across an article that states that a team of investigators who worked on the case are claiming that TWA 800 was downed by "foreign object". They dissent from the official claim that the center fuel tank was ignited by a spark. More info will be release tomorrow during a news conference. A documentary will be released on EPIX next month dealing with the latest claims. Personally, I don't believe the claims but, who knows! In any case, RIP all those who lost their lives on that fateful evening.
Some useful links:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/18...in-new-documentary-claim-original/

http://press.epixhd.com/programming/twa-flight-800/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB1dUfVfoG4

[Edited 2013-06-18 21:56:26]

[Edited 2013-06-18 21:56:36]

[Edited 2013-06-18 22:45:55]

271 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 33656 times:

The Clinton administration believed it to be foul play right off the bat. They immediately closed near airport parking and curbside check-in after the event, something not generally done after an accident.

At the time I felt there was something we were not being told, as even if it had been a bomb or missile, why would the next action to be to take those steps?

The final conclusion may be accurate, but at the time of the accident, the administration believed it to be terrorism.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7797 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 33582 times:

Wow, this thread again?   This one pops up every few months, but we actually just had a thread on this a month or two ago.

There are some curious facts, but in the end, it seems way more of a stretch to believe any of the conspiracies I've heard than it is to believe the official story. Most conspiracy theories I've seen are assumptions built on assumptions built on assumptions.

It will be interesting to see if anything new ever pops up, but until it does, I wish people would move on from this tired subject. Though, if I truly believed justice was not served, I don't think I'd be quiet about it... as long as both sides remain respectful no real harm is done



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 33540 times:

The reason its news is that six investigators claimed to be under a gag order but now are retired and don't care. Supposedly they don't claim to know for sure, but they don't agree with the official cause.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinegoosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 33499 times:

I think this was a very very sensitive case. You had the Russians shooting down the Korean B747 then the Americans shooting down the Iranaian airbus and then this case where apparently the Navy shot down their own airliner. No doubt one day someone will come forward from the Navy to confirm this?

User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 33430 times:

I think you or the mods should edit the title of this thread to be a bit more clear about this recent article, as the title of this thread is very misleading..


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15712 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 33395 times:

Quoting penguins (Thread starter):
I recently came across an article that states that a team of investigators who worked on the case are claiming that TWA 800 was downed by "foreign object".

It wasn't. Witnesses saw the flaming pieces, which look vaguely like a missile, before they heard the explosion.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 2):
The final conclusion may be accurate, but at the time of the accident, the administration believed it to be terrorism.

TWA 800 went down about a year after the discovery of the Bojinka plot and just before the Atlanta Olympics, so there was pretty good reason to be even more suspicious of foul play than other accidents.

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 5):
No doubt one day someone will come forward from the Navy to confirm this?

Why not already? Do you really think that with Wikileaks, et. al. something like that would have been able to remain secret for 17 years? Not to mention the whole ship full of sailors (who of course are a group of people who would never get drunk and say things they shouldn't) who would know if their ship shot down a plane or at least launched a missile. We're talking about a country that saw a presidency crumble because of tape on a doorway, but you think that a Navy ship could shoot down an airliner just off the coast of the country's largest city, not to mention home to tons of media, and keep it all covered up for 17 years? I have some beachfront property in Iowa for you.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinedenverdanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 33307 times:

It's not a surprise to me. Read the accident report. It reads like no other accident report I've read. Very basic for one. They never were able to explain what the initiation of the explosion was. The report is filled with conditional wording--maybe, possibly etc. The official explanation for what happened is filled with just as many suppositions and assumptions that those who support it accuse others of.

One oft repeated misinformation tidbit is that "it was a hot day" that day. No, it really wasn't. Look at the historical record. It was in the mid to low 80's, and the flight took off in the early evening, when things had cooled down from that temp. It had been flying for what, 12 minutes before it exploded suddenly. The hot gases in the fuel tank thing is baloney. It never happened before that on a 747 and it didn't happen in the 6 or so years afterwards before implementation of an unnecessary inerting system. You can't ignite jet fuel in a tank like that--you have to have a very powerful ignition, such as a bomb or lightning.

Aviation history is filled with examples of types of planes having a flaw that results in more than one accident, such as the Lockheed Electra engine/wing vibration issue, DC10 cargo door/hydraulics, 737 rudder issue, Comet pressurization etc. Other examples of tank explosions that are used as examples by people who defend that theory, which it is--just a theory too, since it was never proved either, those accidents had initiating events--such as lighting strikes or bombs. Planes do not suddenly explode in midair of their own accord. My dad is a physicist and none of the other physicists at his work bought into the TWA 800 "story." I have no doubt the fuel tank exploded... but it's more likely it was an after initiating explosion event.

What's likely to happen at some point in the future when the truth does come out, is that Bill Clinton and certain congressional leaders will say they did it for the good of the country. Imagine what it would have done to the economy if we had had a terrorist event like that publicized--that will be their line. There's a discussion to be had about that--whether that was right or wrong. In retrospect, it appears it was a fatal error for the country not to prepare it for terrorism. I remember when Clinton was leaving office, he had an interview with on a TV program. He was asked what was the greatest challenge the country faced in the future. He said "terrorism." I didn't understand his answer or what he was talking about at the time. Americans had more than a decade of events warning of the future to come--from Pan Am 103, to the first WTC bombing, to the Cole and embassy bombings, and TWA 800. Covering up TWA 800 was the wrong thing for the country.

[Edited 2013-06-18 23:03:36]

User currently offlinereality From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 33270 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
Do you really think that with Wikileaks, et. al. something like that would have been able to remain secret for 17 years?
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
you think that a Navy ship could shoot down an airliner just off the coast of the country's largest city, not to mention home to tons of media, and keep it all covered up for 17 years?

Conspiracy theorists NEVER give up. Facts will never ever convince them. Common sense never prevails.


User currently offlinedenverdanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 33221 times:

Quoting reality (Reply 10):
Facts will never ever convince them.

And what are your facts for the fuel tank self ignition theory? Read the report and come back.


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1557 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 33212 times:

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 8):

My problem with the report is the physics of a centre tank explosion that sheers off the front of the aircraft but allows the wing box to retain sufficient integrity for the plane to fly on straight and level for several minutes.



BV
User currently offlinedenverdanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 33159 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 12):
My problem with the report is the physics of a centre tank explosion that sheers off the front of the aircraft but allows the wing box to retain sufficient integrity for the plane to fly on straight and level for several minutes.

exactly. they should never put forth that idea/video to excuse or explain reports. it's contradicted by other evidence as well, such as radar returns and accident debris location.


User currently offlinericknroll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 33067 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 12):
My problem with the report is the physics of a centre tank explosion that sheers off the front of the aircraft but allows the wing box to retain sufficient integrity for the plane to fly on straight and level for several minutes.

IANAE, but the wingbox is about the strongest part of the plane. When something explodes there, it is the weakest part that will give first, which would not be the frame of the wingbox itself, but other parts, such as the forward fuselage.

[Edited 2013-06-19 00:13:38]

User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10875 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 32907 times:

RIP Marcel Dadi my twin brother and best friend lost on board TWA800

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D24kQtvCq1k

I will never forget our happy times together

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1557 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 32793 times:

Quoting ricknroll (Reply 14):
IANAE, but the wingbox is about the strongest part of the plane.

Strong yes but it has to be to keep the wings from folding up due to the tons of lift applied to them, structures of this type (should) only retain their strength as long as they remain intact but the front of the wing box was found at the beginning of the debris path, so in theory the aircraft should not have retained the ability to fly which according to the report it did.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 15):
RIP Marcel Dadi my twin brother and best friend lost on board TWA800

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D24kQtvCq1k

He was talented..

RIP



BV
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1897 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 32773 times:

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 8):
One oft repeated misinformation tidbit is that "it was a hot day" that day. No, it really wasn't. Look at the historical record. It was in the mid to low 80's, and the flight took off in the early evening, when things had cooled down from that temp. It had been flying for what, 12 minutes before it exploded suddenly. The hot gases in the fuel tank thing is baloney.

Ok, you do realize that temperatures on the tarmac are often significantly higher than normal surface temps, right? You also realize that the plane had been at the gate and on the tarmac for much of the day through to the early evening, exposed to the highest temps of the day. I'm sure you're also aware of the fact that the air conditioning packs, which surround the center tank, had also been running for hours and get extremely hot. You may not agree with what actually brought down the plane, but there really is no doubt that, given the conditions the plane was exposed to prior to take-off, the center tank would have been vaporous, the explanation has been tested scientifically.

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 8):
It never happened before that on a 747 and it didn't happen in the 6 or so years afterwards before implementation of an unnecessary inerting system.

There actually had been a number of accidents attributable to fuel vapors prior to flight 800, wasn't a problem that could only happen to the 747.

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 8):
You can't ignite jet fuel in a tank like that

It's been tested and shown that, given the presence of vaporized jet fuel, the amount of energy produced from electrical arcing in wiring would be significant enough for ignition. Again, I don't care if you don't believe in the official account, but that doesn't entitle you to make blatantly false statements.

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 8):
since it was never proved either

But it has been proven that the theory is plausible, there have been numerous experiments since flight 800, including one where they actually destroyed a 747 center tank.

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 8):
What's likely to happen at some point in the future when the truth does come out, is that Bill Clinton and certain congressional leaders will say they did it for the good of the country. Imagine what it would have done to the economy if we had had a terrorist event like that publicized--that will be their line. There's a discussion to be had about that--whether that was right or wrong. In retrospect, it appears it was a fatal error for the country not to prepare it for terrorism. I remember when Clinton was leaving office, he had an interview with on a TV program. He was asked what was the greatest challenge the country faced in the future. He said "terrorism." I didn't understand his answer or what he was talking about at the time. Americans had more than a decade of events warning of the future to come--from Pan Am 103, to the first WTC bombing, to the Cole and embassy bombings, and TWA 800. Covering up TWA 800 was the wrong thing for the country.

Given all of that, I see no reason why it wouldn't have been revealed post-9/11 when the Bush administration was living off terrorism paranoia. If it is some big secret as you say, being 17 years after the fact I just don't see any reason why they would still keep it secret.

Quoting ricknroll (Reply 9):
How much lower can Fox go?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/19/us/twa-crash-claim/index.html

Looks like they're all grasping at straws.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5398 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 32747 times:

Quoting ricknroll (Reply 14):

With JAL123, it only took a relatively small hole in the aft bulkhead to pressurise the vertical stabilizer enough to blow it off of the plane.

It wouldn't take a huge hole in the centre fuel tank to create a pressure wave from the explosion to blast into the cabin. The wing box is a lot stronger than the cabin structure, which is mostly sheet aluminum and stringers.

Like some here, I think the most telling thing against the shoot down theory is that it hasn't been leaked.

People are still questioning the moon landings...of course this will never be settled for everybody.



What the...?
User currently offlinegoosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 32560 times:

Wasn't there a Thai B737 which exploded on the tarmac at BKK? I believe the blame for this was laid at the door of the fuel tank.

User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 32421 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 2):
The Clinton administration believed it to be foul play right off the bat. They immediately closed near airport parking and curbside check-in after the event, something not generally done after an accident.

At the time I felt there was something we were not being told, as even if it had been a bomb or missile, why would the next action to be to take those steps?

These were precautionary measures taken in the immediate aftermath as the cause was unknown at the time and no chances could be taken IN CASE it was foul play or an act of terror. Does not in any way suggest that the findings of the subsequent investigation are to be disregarded.


User currently offlinedenverdanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days ago) and read 32184 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 17):
Ok, you do realize that temperatures on the tarmac are often significantly higher than normal surface temps, right? You also realize that the plane had been at the gate and on the tarmac for much of the day through to the early evening, exposed to the highest temps of the day. I'm sure you're also aware of the fact that the air conditioning packs, which surround the center tank, had also been running for hours and get extremely hot. You may not agree with what actually brought down the plane, but there really is no doubt that, given the conditions the plane was exposed to prior to take-off, the center tank would have been vaporous, the explanation has been tested scientifically.

I really think you should read what you wrote. Seems easily disprovable. I'm surprised they didn't ground the 747 then, or ban all planes for that matter from flying on days where temps have reached 80 degrees. They're flying bombs! They must be going off like pop cans in Arizona after taking off! They must not have planes flying at all in the Middle East and Africa. Don't you think that if this was such a realistic possibility, they would have grounded the planes?

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 17):
There actually had been a number of accidents attributable to fuel vapors prior to flight 800, wasn't a problem that could only happen to the 747.

Well, reference which incidents you're talking about. The ones people usually bring up have bombs and lightning as ignition sources.

In the entire history of the 747, we never once had another incident like this. If it can so easily happen, I find that incredible.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 17):
It's been tested and shown that, given the presence of vaporized jet fuel, the amount of energy produced from electrical arcing in wiring would be significant enough for ignition.

Just the "presence of vaporized jet fuel," as you say, means nothing. At what temperatures and what voltage? Where did the necessary voltage come from? I don't think there's enough voltage on the plane to cause this kind of accident.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 17):
But it has been proven that the theory is plausible, there have been numerous experiments since flight 800, including one where they actually destroyed a 747 center tank

They were never able to replicate what happened. They admit that in the report.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 17):
Given all of that, I see no reason why it wouldn't have been revealed post-9/11 when the Bush administration was living off terrorism paranoia. If it is some big secret as you say, being 17 years after the fact I just don't see any reason why they would still keep it secret.

You don't see any reason? How about embarrassment, or loss of faith in government, or scandal, or careers, or fear of court cases and trials?

Lots of things have been hidden from people. Health issues of presidents have been successfully hidden. Roosevelt and Kennedy come to mind, Wilson too. I think it should concern people the FBI and CIA were involved. What about the silly story of the dog training exercise as an excuse for why residue was found on seats? The whole thing stinks.

[Edited 2013-06-19 02:38:21]

User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9523 posts, RR: 42
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 31894 times:

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 23):
I'm surprised they didn't ground the 747 then, or ban all planes for that matter from flying on days where temps have reached 80 degrees. They're flying bombs! They must be going off like pop cans in Arizona after taking off! They must not have planes flying at all in the Middle East and Africa.

I don't think anyone suggested that the heat itself caused the explosions. As usual, it was a combination of factors, the likelihood of which can be dramatically reduced with attention to manufacture, maintenance and operation.

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 23):
Don't you think that if this was such a realistic possibility, they would have grounded the planes?

Grounding would only occur if there was no easy way to address the problem.

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 23):
At what temperatures and what voltage? Where did the necessary voltage come from? I don't think there's enough voltage on the plane to cause this kind of accident.

Neither the occurrence of an explosion nor the size of an explosion are dependent on the magnitude of the voltage. There's either enough to cause a spark or there isn't. It doesn't take many volts at all to create a spark. Around fuel tanks there are fuel pumps and sensors with their associated electrical wiring. I can't say off-hand what the set up is in a 747 but some aircraft have a combination of such equipment inside the fuel tanks.

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 23):
They were never able to replicate what happened. They admit that in the report.

They also said their findings were the most probable explanation, which is sometimes the best they can do with the evidence available.

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 23):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 17):There actually had been a number of accidents attributable to fuel vapors prior to flight 800, wasn't a problem that could only happen to the 747.
Well, reference which incidents you're talking about. The ones people usually bring up have bombs and lightning as ignition sources.

11 May 1990, Boeing 737-300, EI-BZG, Philippine Air Lines
03 Mar 2001, Boeing 737-400, HS-TDC, Thai Airways


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 32150 times:

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 8):
The hot gases in the fuel tank thing is baloney. It never happened before that on a 747 and it didn't happen in the 6 or so years afterwards before implementation of an unnecessary inerting system.

Theories aside, being related to a 747 captain I can tell you that Boeing had a long standing warning to 747 operators about this exact risk with the center fuel tank. So that explains why this didn't happen before or after.


User currently offlineCairnterriAIR From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 32113 times:

Sadly, there are conspiracy theories for every major disaster....even the Sandy Hook tragedy and the Boston Marathon bombings are being debated by various folks. In my honest opinion, when these theories are brought up the only thing that is being accomplished is that the people lost, as well as their families... are being disrespected. Fox News and any other "journalist" or hard right of center individual should be ashamed of themselves and find more constructive and positive things to concern themselves with.

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 32006 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 8):
The hot gases in the fuel tank thing is baloney. It never happened before that on a 747 and it didn't happen in the 6 or so years afterwards before implementation of an unnecessary inerting system.

By that specious reasoning no one-off malfunction or misfortune that brought down a jet could ever be genuine, even though we know that's not actually the case. How many Concorde crashes were there in the years prior to the Air France crash?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinedelta777jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1243 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 31818 times:

Finally ! Everybody at TWA believed it was shot down! Now they only must admit it!


Fly easyJet
25 TheRedBaron : Well I don´t know if it was an accident or shoot down, but correct me if I am wrong. DIdn´t the guy who was trying to expose the shoot down, stole
26 David L : I don't think that's very likely. If someone went to prison it'd have to be for something more than just having a differing opinion.
27 RDUDDJI : Actually, in the US, the left is much more likely to come up with and promote "conspiracy theories" than the right. Google "9/11 conspiracy theories"
28 readytotaxi : I personally enjoy a good "What if . . ." , as long as it is well made, thought provoking and respectful. Can't comment further until I've seen it.
29 777way : Some couple, hubby and wife diid go to prison and there is a documentary in which they are featured, they went in for no other reason than whats stat
30 David L : Only for expressing a differing opinion? Are you sure there was nothing wrong with the way they went about it?
31 PanAm1971 : A very brave attempt at sanity Sir. However, I'm afraid this tinfoil hat palooza WILL roll on... logic be damned.
32 Flaps : I have read the reports and am technically competent. There are a number of things that could or might have happened. Ive never been a conspiracy theo
33 soon7x7 : Actually No...CNN and News 12 Long Island did. Keep the politics out of it for once please...it is boring.
34 soon7x7 : Hey, Sh-t happens as did on the night of 7.17.96...I suppose 9/11 is a conspiracy theory event as well...
35 D L X : I dunno. These articles look a lot like advertising for the show, not journalism. Besides, if the thing was hit by a rocket, why do people believe for
36 Post contains images PC12Fan : IIRC, there were also some KC-135's that suffered the same fate. Think you should take your own advice here. IIRC, they in fact did. I just don't rem
37 boacvc10 : Umm, airliners.net shouldn't be a discussion forum for US security policy ... ?
38 4holer : Except that this is just about the only sentence in your post that wasn't actively pointing fingers or attempting to promote an agenda or specific co
39 David L : Exactly... exposed. Really? No corruption scandals exposed in the past, before this "recent trend"?
40 sunilgupta : As you say, the tank explosion cause is indeterminate, but you are contradicting yourself when you say there was a cover-up. A "cover-up" implies tha
41 0NEWAIR0 : I don't think any of them claimed to be investigative jorunalism. They're simply stating that these investiagors have come fordward and there going t
42 futureatp : When I first saw this last night my first reaction was; I wonder if there are flyable 747100s/200s around that can be had for cheap, to attempt to rec
43 Post contains links casinterest : I think a lot of folks need to go back and watch from the 38 minute mark of this article for why the NTSB reached their conclusions. http://www.youtub
44 SEPilot : I had a flying buddy friend who was the #2 man in the news department at a CBS television station at the time who told me a couple of years after the
45 flyguy89 : Uh you better believe that any reputable airlines still operating the 747 classics at the time were inspecting the wiring in the fuel tanks after TW8
46 Post contains images b2319 : Being very far from the emotion, the data, and the facts: Have you ever played pool? The angle of impact, playing pool, greatly influences the destru
47 Post contains links art : "The special features six former members of the official crash investigation breaking their silence to refute the officially proposed cause of the jet
48 brilondon : Yes I do. The mainstream media has been covering up for the inept governments of the US since Vietnam was made into a TV war. It is a conspiracy man.
49 tugger : Here is my one question and contribution to the "missile" proponents: Exactly what missile of that time did this? In reviewing missile targeting syst
50 BoeingVista : Because it was radar guided not heat seeking, it would want to hit the center of the target. The US Navy has a few self guided radar homing missiles.
51 tugger : Yes, but exactly which ones are you referring to? Let's narrow this down. Exactly what missile would do this? After that we can track which ships hav
52 soon7x7 : It only requires a second to think about... And who said, "it continued flying?"...the CIA?. So as you put it, think about it...An aerodynamically cl
53 BoeingVista : Its already been done, a specific USN vessel was fingered as being in the area performing an exercise at the time, obviously you will have no luck wi
54 tugger : If the wingbox "continued on" it would of course be at the beginning of the debris field (or the end of it depending on your point of view). That is
55 Post contains links and images D L X : Journalism is assumed when it's a journalistic source like Fox News or CNN. Oh. I just spotted my error. Normally, I would defer to your pilot wisdom
56 BoeingVista : Most of the debris were recovered by the USN, even the NYPD were told to leave the area. OK, let me tape a couple of tinfoil hats together here... Th
57 dsuairptman : It's about time someone steped up and cried foul over the offical findings. Way too much poltical intrique going on the US at the time of that tragedy
58 piedmont727 : Well they have good reason to speculate I mean from what I heard the thing lit up like wood soaked in gasoline , and I was always curious how a fuel t
59 idlewildchild : I remember that day like it was yesterday. I also remember, within minutes of it happening, two military pilots being interviewed and saying they were
60 penguins : I am not saying that the incident did not occur because it had never happened before but, there was an incident involving Concorde in 1979 that was a
61 richierich : Exactly, BMI727. Because in the hours and days after the crash, there was no real way of knowing what had actually happened. Closing curbside check-i
62 KBOS : I remember that as well. 2 A-10 pilots from the New Jersey Air National Guard were on CNN shortly after the explosion. Never saw or heard from them a
63 Post contains images md80fanatic : Good thing they didn't give up on the NSA all-encompassing spy story they've been droning (no pun intended) on about for 15 years, huh? BTW, I like y
64 Post contains images seabosdca : All of the above is true here, and true of conspiracy theories in general. There are always curious facts. Weird coincidences happen every day. It's
65 Post contains images David L : Superficially it might seem that way but the type of event you describe hadn't happened for quite some time before 2000 and was very different from w
66 robsaw : Amazing how such a thread degrades into the usual illogical conspiracy theory stuff. Reasonable and probable explanations are tossed-aside for the mor
67 D L X : How was it different? Not to get off topic, but dismissing it as "very different" is unsupported and misplaced. What it exposed was that Concorde, wi
68 Post contains images soon7x7 : TWA 800, about 300 MPH plus or minus. 747F, 225 plus or minus before cg shift. TWA 800 several compromised aerodynamic vehicle... 747F intact clean a
69 suseJ772 : I am really not much of a conspiracy theorist. But I have and continue to have my doubts about TW800. This is the best argument against the conspiracy
70 TheRedBaron : Add me to your group ! The USA has shot down accidentally an A300, the USSR shoot down a 747, accidents happen.... in this case It MIGHT involved a d
71 D L X : Well clearly it STOPPED climbing, but also as clearly, it did climb to a certain altitude before it stopped. The aircraft reported that the CG shift
72 David L : You must have missed the many discussions on the subject here. I assume you've never seen the accident report either. If I have time later on, I'll p
73 ckfred : Well, Boeing doesn't know what caused fires in the lithium-ion batteries of the 787s, but the FAA approved changes for the battery compartment. By th
74 richierich : I am not doubting you. Surely this footage must exist somewhere...this was obviously before the days of YouTube and the mind-numbing amount of DVR be
75 falstaff : I think this boils down to "do you believe the official report or not? There are some people who will never believe the official report because they (
76 gaystudpilot : [delete this post please][Edited 2013-06-19 14:15:49]
77 Post contains images SXDFC : I have been living on Long Island my whole life, and I remember this accident very well, although I was only 7 at the time, I remember seeing this on
78 soon7x7 : Neither climbed 3,000 ft. Then I would assume your an expert on this topic since your so easily compelled to label anyone that differs from your opin
79 csavel : Why didn't he report it. I mean that could have been one of the biggest scoops of his career. Instantly propelling him to his own "investigative repo
80 Post contains links aerobalance : I may or may not have been involved in this study: http://www2.galcit.caltech.edu/EDL/projects/JetA/ Conspiracy my rear end!
81 idlewildchild : Thx for confirmation. My best friend and I both remember those 2 a10 pilots. I bet they re emerge through this. So sad. These families deserve to kno
82 Post contains images denverdanny : I'd say when you have the CIA create a ridiculous video that does not follow what happened and present it as fact, that qualifies as a cover up of so
83 TVNWZ : This. Even the guys that killed Osama could not keep quiet. And there was only a team of them. Really. Time to move on.
84 BMI727 : If the Navy shot down TWA 800, accidentally or otherwise, you wouldn't go in so hard with the FBI, so I don't know why conspiracy theorists cite that
85 JoeCanuck : There are so many radar stations, (and people), on the east coast that the chance of any missile going undetected is infinitesimally tiny. We've seen
86 Post contains links md80fanatic : Can one truly trust an agency that would photoshop out a left wing separated from its wingbox in this (in)famous 767 ditching video? This is the offic
87 yyz717 : They should have spoken up at the time. Gutless. Agreed. Funny how it's never happened to a 747 before or after this incident. I'm waiting for the Ol
88 Post contains images tugger : There is simply no reason why "the government" would cover this up. Really. Yes there would be big liability and a lot of hearings and recriminations
89 penguins : It is an opportune time to come out as a dissenter currently. The trust of the government is at an all time low. I think that is why they came out no
90 ikramerica : Actually, it was one guy, and he was pissed because the stories were false. Who KNEW the truth, he didn't have to speculate on some other outcome. An
91 Post contains images PC12Fan : Go back and read about fundamental aerodynamics. Then get back to us.... It always is man, ain't it? Funny, until this broke, it was the first I hear
92 stltrojan : All I can tell you is that my buddy was dating Jeffrey Erikson's daughter at the time. Our crew was all hanging out that night when it happened, she t
93 us330 : Not on the East Coast. Northeast summers, especially in July and August, are brutally humid. 86 degrees in New Haven or New York is not 86 degrees in
94 soon7x7 : I just wonder how many here have actually been to the crash site of a heavy transport aircraft. The first impact to your senses is the rampant odor of
95 CWAFlyer : The airplane sat for less than 4 hours after arriving from Athens. Not "much of the day". Did TWA typically leave the APU and packs running for hours
96 Post contains links and images BoeingVista : The eyewitness problem, most are not believed because they have in the past proved less than perfect. It was approaching dusk not nighttime if I reca
97 yvphx : Why would the former FAA investigators be under a gag order if this was nothing but an accident? This part is what is more intriguing to me about TWA
98 casinterest : Seriously? Everyone from the moment this happened thought it was a terrorist act, but the facts didn't fit the conclusions. Everyone remembered Locke
99 ltbewr : The TWA 800 disaster is a classic example of number of social, political, economic, limits of investigations, time, place and potentially faulty obser
100 BMI727 : ...which points out another hole in the story. If TWA was a legitimate terrorist attack, why cover it up? If Al Qaeda or somebody else bombed the pla
101 Post contains links TUNisia : Afterwards, not a one among them, either publicly or privately, challenged the video’s thesis that TWA Flight 800 had indeed been shot down. Offered
102 Skydrol : Absolutely fascinating post... I have always been willing to accept the conclusion that damaged fuel pump wiring could have ignited fuel vapors in th
103 B747400ERF : Truthers are libertarians, they are not "the left" they are extremely right wing.
104 B747400ERF : What the hell am I reading?
105 flyguy89 : Regardless, the plane had been on the ground for hours during the hottest parts of the day. Can't speak to whether or not it was SOP at TWA, but in t
106 Drmlnr1 : I can't make it through the documentary. This investigation has been flawed start to finish. FBI really screwed the pooch. Intimidation, blackmail, co
107 JoeCanuck : There are lots of sea to air missiles...but no invisible ones. They all have a long burn times and the streak would be visible from a very long way o
108 BoeingVista : But isn't the point here that people did report a missile streak? Flight time could be under 2 minutes. The 9/11 radar tapes were all seized were the
109 XFSUgimpLB41X : Wrong. It varies widely and is highly existent among all parties. People want to see something more behind a simple explanation and will go to great
110 JoeCanuck : Every navy ship on the east coast would have spotted a radar track from sub launched missile...and we're not just talking about American ships...who
111 Post contains images MadameConcorde : One of the so-called "nuts" that saw a missile hit the plane was former White House press secretary Pierre Salinger (Press secretary under Presidents
112 Post contains images BoeingVista : It wouldn't be tiny but it may have been a test peice not a standard inventry item so not as large as you think. No, not necessarily. Dummy round, no
113 UALWN : It actually discredits most anything that poster can offer about TW 800.
114 Post contains links AY-MD11 : I remember the day very well. I wake up in the beautiful hot summer morning and saw the sad news about it on tv. I had flight about one month later he
115 1400mph : A friend of mine was operating on a London bound BA 747 that departed very soon afterwards. He recalls seeing the flaming debris field. If it was shot
116 B747400ERF : The conspiracy theorists the past decade plus have been libertarians, mostly Ron Paul supporters who are the 9/11 Truthers and Alex Jones listeners.
117 Post contains links TUNisia : You can watch the full EPIX movie here: https://vimeo.com/59099154 Password: epix123 It's pretty powerful to say the least.
118 daviation : John Miller, one of this country's most respected investigative journalists, just appeared on CBS This Morning to discuss the topic. By incredible coi
119 Post contains images soon7x7 : The sun was just above the horizon at the 13,700 altitude so livery colors would still be identifiable from the ground. It was a windless/ clear even
120 Post contains links LTC8K6 : A missile at night in the distance would appear as a moving dot of light, not a streak of flame, wouldn't it? The dot would disappear well before the
121 suseJ772 : So... pretty much every spring/summer/fall day in ATL or MCO? Again, I don't buy the alternate theory and I don't buy the real theory. But the "warm
122 Post contains images D L X : Then what is your problem with what I said? Dude, cut the hysterics. I never claimed to be. Your dismissal of my comments without adding any actual c
123 BoeingVista : I have now seen the documentary and it does in fact raise some serious questions about the investigation. The old questions are good questions and the
124 md80fanatic : It doesn't matter if it's believers of the tooth fairy or Ronald McDonald-for-president supporters, if what they are saying is true how can they be a
125 md80fanatic : Hmmm, I thought someone would have taken the "bait" of the Ethiopian 767 ditching by now. I sure had my head bitten off in this forum in 2006/2007 whe
126 suseJ772 : I watched the whole documentary just now. Exactly how I felt as well.
127 tugger : But at its core, the problem is the message, not the messengers! As I said and asked up thread: And no one has responded to it, so I ask it again: Wh
128 sankaps : So you believe 50-100C temp (max) of ac packs and center tank would attract a heat-seeking missile more strongly than aircraft engines with 1000C exh
129 Post contains links SEPilot : As I said, he knew someone with first-hand knowledge; he did not have it himself. Obviously that person was unwilling to speak for the record, which
130 sankaps : Hmmm... and GW Bush, who was looking for any possible reason (real or fictitious) to go to war in the middle east and had a bulls-eye on Iran as much
131 SSTeve : 747s blowing up are probably pretty rare, too.
132 PITingres : That's half of it. The other half IMO is that it's an interesting sort of missile that leaves no trace of itself behind -- no exhaust deposits, no fo
133 tugger : That would have required complicity by Iran too to remain silent. And why on earth would they do that all these years? Especially if they could have
134 soon7x7 : Not a problem with what you said, but big problem with CIA cartoon, 3200' climb not possible given the circumstances. No hysterics here. However sinc
135 ukoverlander : Interestingly Cashill and Sanders documentary, "Silenced: TWA 800 and the subversion of justice" has just showed up on You Tube. It looks like it was
136 md80fanatic : A cookie for you! I think this is the first time I have ever heard someone sound proud of being uninformed/misinformed. I have always assumed there w
137 AA777 : I'm sorry, but I never bought the nonsense about a spark causing the fuel tank to explode. Please. It's a bunch of hooey. I was 13 when it happened an
138 BoeingVista : That old chestnut, I worked with the people who made the intercept equipment so I knew for a fact that was happening, funny but I never thought of ru
139 casinterest : Your point? this was the first 6 months of a 4 year investigation in which they didn't know or have evidence of what happened.
140 Post contains links Pihero : Strange : with the CoG going aft in a big way, I would have thought a pitch-up would have been reasonable, before a stall. What amuses n- and apalls
141 Post contains images PC12Fan : I do appreciate what you were saying in the previous post and in your quote included here sir, but the apology is not needed. As long as you don't in
142 mtnwest1979 : And that has zero relevance. Machinery isn't like a person and 'feel' warmer than it is. To a plane, 86 is 86. As for topic at hand, I still think it
143 SEPilot : Yes, a pitchup will occur, but the stall will happen simultaneously. The plane would have been still in a climb, with not a lot of excess airspeed, a
144 D L X : Are you suggesting that a plane has no inertia? The equivalent would be saying that a car immediately goes backwards when you take your foot off the
145 DeltaMD90 : Libertarians are neither far right nor far left. They are a mix and go their own way I cannot buy that a whole crew of a ship or sub would stay quiet
146 richierich : 100% agreed. The risk of getting caught covering up something like this far exceeds owning up to an accidental missile firing, as horrendous as that
147 milesrich : The Science Reporter for CNN, who toured the aircraft at Calverton after it was reconstructed and who has followed this story for the last 17 years,
148 Post contains links ItalianFlyer : IMHO (and I am NOT flaming here) there is a political angle to this story. It is becoming obvious that Hillary is going to run for POTUS in '16. She h
149 SEPilot : Not at all; I am saying that the WING cannot cause any altitude gain if it is stalled. If the plane has upward momentum that will carry it further in
150 Post contains links milesrich : Mismanagement? The CIA was using a phony Consulate for intelligence gathering. There was no request for additional security, even though various GOP
151 tommy767 : Ridiculous that I was trying to fall asleep the other night and re-read about 800 on wikipedia. Then this comes out the next day on CNN. I really do t
152 LTC8K6 : If Benghazi hasn't derailed Hillary, TWA800 sure won't... So I don't see how the Hillary theory holds any water. If I wanted to derail Hillary Clinton
153 Post contains images bikerthai : So, If it was truly a US missile that took down the 747, we would have to ask what are the potential motives? 1) Alien on board? (Space alien and not
154 bikerthai : I'm no expert, but there is one way to explain this. The missile itself did not strike or get near the aircraft but launched a projectile that penetr
155 robsaw : There are actually many ways to explain this given the capacity of the human imagination. Actually theorizing a plausible cause that doesn't sound li
156 D L X : Think about the instant the nose separated from the plane. That's thousands of pounds of weight that the wings no longer have to lift. In that instan
157 N14AZ : I remember that day and I was immediately convinced it was a terrorist attac. It was just several days before the Olympic Games. Honestly, this thread
158 seabosdca : If you look at the history of U.S. politics this is the normal state of affairs. Of course officials are going to tell lies from time to time. It's h
159 stltrojan : Not really heresay but witnessed first hand when a bunch of college kids at the time, me included hanging out at a house doing what college kids do b
160 soon7x7 : The 747-100-200 series and some 400 series shorter upper decks are actually lifting surfaces. This was proven by Boeing during 747-400 trials as bett
161 Ldriver : I will wait and see the movie before condemning it. That said, there are two things which helped change my position on the missile question. The 1st i
162 Skydrol : Surely a grassy knoll and school book depository are going to fit into this event somehow... LD4
163 JoeCanuck : Do mystery submarines contain grassy knolls? Perfect places for Stinger toting Iranian Yeti to hide.
164 Post contains links TUNisia : You can watch the movie now -> https://vimeo.com/59099154 Password: epix123 I posted a separate thread with this info, but it was deleted by a mod
165 EA CO AS : Password doesn't work.
166 suseJ772 : Bummer it stopped working. I watched the whole thing yesterday thanks to TUNisia at that link with that password
167 nycdave : There's nothing inherently wrong with inventing or believing conspiracy theories -- indeed, behavioral science and psychology have shown that doing so
168 United787 : I am not a conspiracy nut, in fact I loathe them, but I don't believe the official report. Unfortunately, I think this was simply a military exercise
169 sankaps : An accident that presumably dozens of crewmembers, hundreds of investigators, thousands of military and defense officials, and four presidential admi
170 Post contains images casinterest : They're better than seal team 6 at keeping secrets don't ya know?
171 PITingres : I'm curious. In the total and complete absence of any physical evidence to point towards this conclusion, you believe this why? I'd be willing to bel
172 DeltaMD90 : I don't know what sailors you know, but most of the ones I know would never stay silent if they indeed killed all these Americans. A war secret to de
173 D L X : This. A lot of these conspiracy theorists believe in a Navy that has absolutely no honor.
174 United787 : Which is exactly why I don't typically believe conspiracy theories... I obviously don't know what really happened but there are too many witnesses th
175 SEPilot : The problem is that none of us has had a chance to examine the evidence for ourselves; we are forced to believe the accounts of others. In other word
176 seabosdca : Every single coverup that has ever been discovered, from Watergate to various Catholic sex scandals, has been a bungling affair where no more than te
177 soon7x7 : Whatever the side of the fence you sit on regarding TWA800, go to the official site...TWA800.com. I have not been to it for years however much has bee
178 D L X : So, rich, educated people have better vision? They're still observing something many miles away from their view. Why didn't anyone see a plume of exh
179 soon7x7 : Affluence has their proximity to the crash in great numbers...I believe that was a point you were trying to make in one of your earlier responses. Ed
180 Post contains links D L X : The plane was two miles in the air, and many miles out to sea when it exploded. I'm sorry, but no ground witness had proximity to the accident. Their
181 Flaps : It doesnt seem that anyone ever talked after the Aer Lingus Viscount downing in the Irish Sea. We now "know" that an Itavia DC9 was downed by an erran
182 csavel : Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 94): I have flown that airspace and surfed those beaches for 30 years plus and know them well. I have never seen that many feds
183 hivue : I assume you are trying to be funny by debunking one conspiracy theory with another?
184 CWAFlyer : As they did virtually everyday on days when it was that warm. I don't think that in itself was unique to that day or that it was that much warmer tha
185 777way : Well there was a shipment of pet turtles in the cargo according to one site.
186 SEPilot : Well, if there was an accident where the official report stated that the aircraft in questioned acted in violation of the basic laws of physics, what
187 ComeAndGo : One eyewitness reported a strake flying south to north, the other one a strake going north to south and others still claimed it went straight up. Tha
188 denverdanny : From what I remember, Pan Am 103 was torn apart by the mach stem wave and wind forces. Because of the location of the bomb, the explosion damaged con
189 nycdave : But "Not having a satisfactory answer, therefore believing/creating an explanation that cannot be proven" is the very DEFINITION of a "conspiracy nut
190 4holer : It's another conspiracy! Proves the conspiracy. Thus, everything that goes on in the world that we have not personally experienced is manipulated by
191 soon7x7 : Well now...I really am at a loss on how to answer some of your questions or rather retort your statements...for example... Without sounding condescen
192 Ldriver : And as I pointed out, we have a basic problem with the witnesses, as illustrated by these chopper pilots. According to Meyer, there was a series of e
193 sankaps : YOU claim it is in violation of the basic laws of physics. Others -- experts and professionals -- do not think this to be the case. Yet you believe e
194 SEPilot : If 5000 heavily credentialed people tell you that 2+2=17, are you going to believe them? I do not care how many people say that this was a realistic
195 sankaps : As opposed to one individual saying 2+2 = 22? Hmmm....
196 SEPilot : You can believe whatever you want, I am not trying to convince you of anything. I am saying that I do not believe the official explanation, and sayin
197 BoeingVista : The radar trace disproves CIA cartoon anyway, it simply did not happen and no amount 'virtual re-enactments' are going to get me to disbelieve that a
198 DTWPurserBoy : I have to agree with the FBI chief investigating the accident. Over 800 people were involved in the task of the investigation and getting 800 people t
199 Post contains images sankaps : Indeed, you are echoing precisely what I had said: And as for this: Yes, including two referenced in this post itself!
200 soon7x7 : Because bad things cost lots of money, bad things cost politicians votes. Moral fabric is a thing of the past. So is accountability and responsibilit
201 DTWPurserBoy : I have always been told that no one mistake causes an airplane to crash--it is the culmination of a series of errors. There probably was enough blame
202 nycdave : Alas, when unlikely sequences of events result in something disconcerting happening, it's comforting for many people to imagine it must instead have
203 D L X : Sorry, but Long Island is not flat. The Bonneville Flats are flat. Long Island has trees, buildings, bridges, and other structures that would at leas
204 sankaps : So the recent headlines of the past three months or so (politically motivated as some of them may be) proves conspiracy theorists correct on an incid
205 ukoverlander : It's amazing how many people are willing to post on here without a) Having an understanding of the NTSB report, or b) Being aware of the full array of
206 ckfred : I watched a bit of a CNN special last night. Initially, investigators, especially the FBI, assumed that the evidence they would find would point to te
207 Ldriver : I tend to agree. This is no doubt the weakest part of the final report. But that doesn't mean its purpose was to cover up a missile. Witnesses need n
208 Ldriver : Good point. I have found that many missile believers are unaware of the timing problem of witnesses and the evidence the streak of light may have bee
209 Ldriver : This is true. But not the whole story. All such events previous to F800 (my research may be incomplete) where there was such a fuel-vapor explosion,
210 ComeAndGo : Knowing that electrical wires route through the central fuel tank in a 747. Knowing that this particular aircraft was leased to Olympic Airways, mant
211 denverdanny : There isn't enough voltage on the plane to do it. That it may or may not have arced means squat. They never found evidence of it. They aren't exclusi
212 Ldriver : Very interesting. Was this in the final report?
213 Post contains images soon7x7 : To a large extent I have always believed the government lets us know what they want us to know. Been that way as SOP for more than 20 years. Does any
214 silentbob : In so many ways, Orwell was incredibly prescient. There is also the segment of the population that thinks they're smarter than everyone else and they
215 soon7x7 : Then there were those that actually saw things going on...and as I have listed several concepts in earlier posts, one I forgot about was at the time
216 PHX Flyer : I really don't see how this observation might support any conspiracy theory. Everyone believed at that time that the downing of TW 800 was an act of
217 art : Does anyone query that the aircraft's metal was bent outwards? If the data are there to show this, I support your conclusion that the aircraft was de
218 soon7x7 : Two other aspects of "bent metal" to consider...post event the enourmous airframe still was subject to it's 13,000 foot fall and it's acceleration to
219 sankaps : Not true. Two examples repeatedly quoted throughout this thread are the PAL and Thai 737 fuel tank explosions. Neither involved bombs or lightning. A
220 silentbob : There are people that will argue that grass is blue and the sky is green. Just because someone is willing to make an argument, doesn't make that argu
221 Ldriver : I'm not able to find this in the accident report or any other Google search involving the serial # for this aircraft (20083). Can you kindly provide
222 Post contains links sierra3tango : Very true http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aer_Lingus_Flight_712
223 Ldriver : I also just checked Olympic 747 fleet history and no 20083 shows up. But I do see that another of their 747s went to TWA and became N305TW. Is this m
224 ckfred : But, the Phillipines Air 737 was just sitting on the ramp, when the center fuel tank caught fire. I shouldn't have watched more of the show, but I de
225 denverdanny : You need more than just "a spark." It even says that in the report. There's a minimum that is affected by the factors involved. You can't use the wor
226 sankaps : Best not to get wrapped around the pole around one word. A spark, an ignition source, whatever it takes to set off the chain of events that leads to
227 777way : Why were some of the witnesses told to stay shut abot what they saw and one threatened regarding her immigration which was due.
228 sankaps : How credible are these claims?
229 DTWPurserBoy : An excellent question. I find it odd that after 17 years people are suddenly coming forward. Eyewitness reports are notoriously unreliable. Especiall
230 soon7x7 : Understand one thing...I haven't implied "conspiracy" in any of my posts...what I have focused on is the irregularities and facts of how this event w
231 md80fanatic : Why is it automatically assumed the damage done by a missile has to be outside to inside? There is only one type of missile (that I know of) that beh
232 md80fanatic : Just so you know, there are techniques in use (the textual equivalent of NLP) on this topic, designed specifically to put people who aren't buying th
233 denverdanny : I don't. People have careers and family. You expect them to drop everything? Lose their jobs? Their careers? Who's going to listen or do anything? Th
234 denverdanny : There's a difference and it matters. They spent a lot of time on it. You know what, read the report.
235 sankaps : Interesting -- read the report, but disagree with the findings is what you propose, I guess? Regardless of which word you want to pick to describe th
236 D L X : Okay, well, answer this one: other than the victims, who stood to suffer most about the investigation results? It's probably Boeing, right? Why hasn'
237 UA787DEN : Too long. Yes, and some other aviation companies, but we all know about Boeing's relations with the government, don't we? If it was a missile, then 1
238 TVNWZ : Because Boeing makes missles too? Irregardless, I agree with your posts.
239 soon7x7 : It was a matter of time before this topic grew new legs, I'm done....
240 Post contains links flyingturtle : A very good, and very sobering text on eyewitness reliability: http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htm David[Edited 2013-06-
241 D L X : While I actually greatly appreciate that you overflew the crash area to show us what the view from up there would be, don't you have to ask now, how
242 richierich : Only because it would have been the biggest damn story of the decade regarding government coverup! All we have to do is look to today's news to see w
243 denverdanny : Whatever you're talking about, is not what I'm talking about. Kallstrom was up there testifying that no witnesses they interviewed said they saw a mi
244 soon7x7 : In a Cessna 172 at noon time...easily seen if someone looking at where my engine sound was coming from but an explosive, illuminating event at dusk i
245 sankaps : So you quote the report as the authority when it comes to this aspect, but disagree with the conclusions that it was not a bomb or missile that broug
246 4holer : Fixed for you. A missile contrail is obvious and persists. If you show me a photo one of the 735 witnesses took of this missile contrail, I'd conside
247 denverdanny : I'm not making an argument for the missile or bomb... People are dismissing witnesses as not being reliable, yet an experiment conducted showed that
248 soon7x7 : On one of my trips out to Tucson/AZ I came across a scrapyard that had in it several 747 mid fuselages sections with center wing tanks. All had explo
249 Post contains links D L X : It's pretty obvious, isn't it? If Boeing is blamed for causing a crash, do you think people will feel good about getting on Boeing jets? If Boeing is
250 D L X : Do you have a cite to this experiment that we can see? Dude. Keep it civil, or this thread will be locked. Your explanation has holes. Did the propri
251 soon7x7 :
252 4holer : That's not what he asked. He asked about the timing of the experiment, not when you encountered the discarded metal in the scrapyard. (And you know i
253 denverdanny : See post 243 again. Again, JAL 123 and the 737 rudder accidents. You could probably toss UAL 811 in there too. Boeing is pretty resilient, and I'd ha
254 D L X : I read your post, and responded to it. Would you care to respond to mine? I just listed a whole bunch of lawsuits against Boeing resulting from TWA 8
255 soon7x7 : Your point taken and agreed...I've been out to the Boneyards 12 times and while @ work, Just can't satisfy the time line specifically other than I ca
256 denverdanny : No they're not. Boeing survived issues with their faulty repair of that plane, as well as the 737 rudder problem that resulted in two crashes and clo
257 soon7x7 : Think this thread has crashed and burned, sure more controversy and arguing after the airing of the documentary
258 TVNWZ : Could these tests be related to specific or ancillary, followup theories? Test of remedies for the perceived problems? Conclusions can be made, but f
259 soon7x7 : I had seen three fuselage sections with detonations all in the same location...one had outstanding damage, (photo of it somewhere but is on film, has
260 D L X : I need you to be serious for a moment. Do you think that Boeing wants to lose a lawsuit? Because if they lose a lawsuit, they will suffer having to p
261 PHX Flyer : IIRC, those were engines #1, #2 and #4 - whatever happened to engine #3?
262 sankaps : Denverdanny, you claim: Yet in Reply 211 you had written, in reference to other center fuel tank explosions on civilian aircraft: So while you many no
263 soon7x7 : I remember through out the investigation certain items recovered where secluded in another hangar @ Calverton where access even by other FBI agents w
264 777way : But they were there all the time, amongst the over 700 who saw something hit the plane, they came forward then, nobody listened, they are always avai
265 soon7x7 : In addition to what you stated and well put...on the investigative side, at the time this was huge, many still had careers ahead of them and as time
266 mi5flyer : I'm not a big conspiracy guy but this always seemed to be a strange situation to me for one reason. If it was a fuel tank issue why has this not happe
267 Post contains links sankaps : Because the probability of all the holes in the various slices of cheese lining up exactly is extremely low. IF it happens you get this result. For t
268 D L X : Exactly. How many thousands of hours did 737s fly without suffering a rudder hardover that caused a crash?
269 TheRedBaron : The plot Thickens... so for me its not as simple as saying read the report and be done with... Since we dont know what kind of bullet, missile, bomb
270 TVNWZ : And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. But, some need to see other things in it.
271 Post contains links iowaman : Due to length, here is part 2: TWA 800 A Shoot Down? New Testimonials Part 2 (by iowaman Jun 27 2013 in Civil Aviation) This thread will be archived f
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SFO Airborne Goose Shot Down This Evening. posted Sat Mar 31 2007 11:27:08 by Leamside
TWA 800 10 Yrs Ago Today, 7/17 posted Mon Jul 17 2006 18:49:54 by Richierich