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A350 Flight Tests Official Thread  
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 44225 times:
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We're just at the beginning of the A350 flight tests program.
The first flights were fun to follow on flightradar and the various streams of videos we could find ; but these will disappear soon.
We shall discuss what was done on the first three flights and make assumptions on the next steps.
Back to you soon.

Regards to all.


Contrail designer
282 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 43699 times:

I like this new thread and agree with the intent.

Where is the A350 after three flights compared to the B787 flight test programme? Seems Airbus is very mature.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 43672 times:

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 2):
Does anybody know when the next flight is scheduled after today's mega 8+ hr flight?

I assume they will make weekly flights from now, perhaps even every day.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 43631 times:
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Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 2):
I have a feeling the other thread got removed instead...

It's ok.
Quite an exciting day, today :
- The longest flight : 8 hours 30 +
- Long runs at Mach .84
- An airline-type of slotting into commercial traffic + a STAR + a hold
- The fly-past
- Return to serious matters with another run at Mach .84 ~ 85
............... I missed a lot.....................................................
- A return to TLS with some sector work : Descents at Vmo / Exploration of the Normal law Alpha protection ( descent at - I assume - alpha prot where a 117 kt ground speed was recorded - some 140 TAS and around 110 kt IAS .
Alpha prot is the AoA at which the pitch authority reverts to a direct relation between sidestick angle and deflection of the elevator. Stick free, the airplane reverts to maintaining alpha prot.

The long cruise phases must have allowed quite a lot of performance data to be gathered, plus an improved test instruments calibration... and of course testing all the flight control laws (normal / alternate / direct) but these are transparent to us.

I think that the program is progressing very well - and fast. I would not be surprised to see a VD test very soon : Better watch for it as it comprises a 7.5° dive for 20 seconds, followed by a 1.5g pull up. The TAS should be around 480 kt and the vertical speed some 6000 ft/min . Could have been done today, though, as Scipio reported but I couldn't find it on the playback.

The next step will be to open the gust envelope, with the determination of all design speeds : maneuvering (VA), cruise (VC), turbulence (VB or Vra for *rough air*) etc...

As you can see, for the time being, this thread will be about performance and piloting. Most of the *ancillary tests* - although very important will just be subjects of wild guesswork : Fuel system ; pressurisation ; pneumatics... for thoise, we'll have to wait for an Airbus report or na kind soul close to the flight testing department.
We can hope, can't we ?



Contrail designer
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 43604 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 4):
I assume they will make weekly flights from now, perhaps even every day.

Someone told me ,that the initial rythm will be Flight + three days of rest / review / maintenance + Fligfht ...

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 3):
Seems Airbus is very mature.

They seem to be very confident, to say the least.

Could someone upload the schedule for initial flights of the other prototypes from the Ferpe's thread ?

PS : I spent the whole afrternoon singing "Ain't she sweet ? " an old song of may father's era :
..".I repeat
Don't you think she's kind of sweet
Now I ask you very confidentially
Ain't she sweet?
"

[Edited 2013-06-21 15:27:33]


Contrail designer
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 43595 times:

Here you go:

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2uj1fzq.jpg



http://oi41.tinypic.com/6sg9ol.jpg



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineScipio From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 852 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 43510 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 5):
I think that the program is progressing very well - and fast. I would not be surprised to see a VD test very soon : Better watch for it as it comprises a 7.5° dive for 20 seconds, followed by a 1.5g pull up. The TAS should be around 480 kt and the vertical speed some 6000 ft/min . Could have been done today, though, as Scipio reported but I couldn't find it on the playback.

As I said earlier, I saw her in a sustained 6,000+ fpm dive. 20 secs sounds about right. I also saw her climbing at times at around and above 3,000 fpm.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 312):
Seems you had a lot of fun today guys  

We missed you...

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 307):
Again Congratulations Airbus!!

Can't be said enough. Things seem to be going really well now. 18+ hours of flight and 5 cycles in the first 8 days of testing...

The PAS fly-by at just 600 ft was a show of confidence, but just a minor episode in today's 8 1/2 hour test flight. As it should be...


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 43438 times:
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Quoting Scipio (Reply 6):
but just a minor episode in today's 8 1/2 hour test flight. As it should be...

Not so minor : a friend of mine had tears in his eyes... his girlfriend was cheering...

Quoting Scipio (Reply 6):
As I said earlier, I saw her in a sustained 6,000+ fpm dive. 20 secs sounds about right. I also saw her climbing at times at around and above 3,000 fpm.

So    on that test. Want to know the results and the values... Anyone there ?



Contrail designer
User currently offlineScipio From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 852 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 43397 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 7):
So    on that test. Want to know the results and the values... Anyone there ?

Look at the playback on fr24 starting from 16:30 UTC. She goes from FL 200 to FL 130 in no time.

For your convenience: She is near Limoux at 16:30 at the start of that replay.

[Edited 2013-06-21 16:53:01]

User currently offlineBogi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 43338 times:

This Is Another Very Good Official Thread With Many Interesting Infomations And Photos.

Only two days between the second and third flight test.
When is the fourth flight test expected?


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7239 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 43180 times:

So how many flight hours do they need in order to reach certification? When with MSNs 002 and 003 fly?


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 43119 times:

So not having much knowledge here so i'll ask a probably dumb question, for the tests mentioned above with steep dives and climbs, does A rely on the sensors and gauges to determine structural integrity, or will the periodically look into inspection panels and carry out some borescope type of activities in the early phases?

Thanks



maxter
User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1059 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 43091 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
Here you go:

So from the chart it looks like the second aircraft off the assembly line (MSN003) will not fly until the end of September? I assume the long gap is so that some things learned from MSN001 can be incorporated in 003?


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9981 posts, RR: 96
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 42942 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
So how many flight hours do they need in order to reach certification?

c. 2 500 hours. They're 3/4% through already  
Quoting Bogi (Reply 9):
When is the fourth flight test expected?

I'm sure I read somewhere that for the next period it will typically be a flight roughly every 3 days

Rgds


User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 669 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 41984 times:

Quoting hivue (Reply 12):
So from the chart it looks like the second aircraft off the assembly line (MSN003) will not fly until the end of September? I assume the long gap is so that some things learned from MSN001 can be incorporated in 003?

Could be that Airbus is just very conservative with their dates...
Up until last week they said First Flight would be "During the Summer" and it flew before the summer...  

I expect MSN003 coming out of Station 30 very soon anyways, Station 18 and 20 + Paint in the coming months



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlinespeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 40629 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 3):
as Scipio reported but I couldn't find it on the playback.

The playback of FR24 is a sample of data every x seconds or minutes... it would be easy for that data sample of -6000fpm to not be played back.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 4):
Someone told me ,that the initial rythm will be Flight + three days of rest / review / maintenance + Fligfht ...

Excellent. Fits in with my off days LOL!



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 40517 times:

Quoting hivue (Reply 12):
So from the chart it looks like the second aircraft off the assembly line (MSN003) will not fly until the end of September? I assume the long gap is so that some things learned from MSN001 can be incorporated in 003?

It looks long, but:

> MSN001 FAL start was in September 25, 2012 and it flew on June 14, 2013, making 9 months until first flight
> MSN003 FAL start was in February 15, 2013 and it will fly around September 30, 2013, making 8 months until first flight



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7239 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 39826 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 13):
c. 2 500 hours. They're 3/4% through already

Alright we're on a roll! 
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 16):
> MSN003 FAL start was in February 15, 2013 and it will fly around September 30, 2013, making 8 months until first flight

Now what about MSN002......



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 669 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 39657 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 17):
Now what about MSN002......

MSN002 arrived at the FAL just before the airshow... I'd guess that that one is in Station 50 now (fuselage join)



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 39329 times:

MSN002 should fly in January 2014, that's also 8 months between FAL start and first flight.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinebobmuc From Germany, joined Nov 2011, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 39053 times:

Hi, as we have seen during the first 3 days of test flights, they haven't left the airspace controlled by France ATC.
Are there any rules when they are allowed to fly into other airspace or even to land at other airports?
Or is this just a matter of avoiding paperwork, to request special permissions etc.?

P.S.: Any confirmation for the next flight? A chance for Monday or is the 3-day break after every flight at this point of time confirmed?

Thank you!


User currently offlinespeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 38329 times:

So... Is today the day again?


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User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 669 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 38102 times:

AIB4XB just triggered on my fr24 app


A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlinebobmuc From Germany, joined Nov 2011, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 37997 times:

AIB4WB is in the air!

User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 37833 times:
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@ 11:08 L, a consistent run at TAS = 520 kt ---> Mach.89, i.e MMO
We're in for another series of flight law tests at high Mach.
Nice beginning.

Slow down to Mach.72 and acceleration back to MMO. Some VS fluctuations.

[Edited 2013-06-25 02:20:47]


Contrail designer
User currently offlineBogi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 25, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 38185 times:

Quoting bobmuc (Reply 23):
AIB4WB is in the air!
Fantastic.
Cozy after four rather than as the PAS after only two days.
How long will go this fourth flight test?


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 26, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 38178 times:
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A run at FL 350 / Mach .84. Alt steady as rock : A/P on.
11:30 L, acceleration to Mach .85, still maintaining FL 350.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 27, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 38596 times:

Quoting Bogi (Reply 25):
How long will go this fourth flight test?

Hmm let's have a look.



Nope, nothing. Sorry, my crystal ball is broken.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 28, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 38553 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 27):
Nope, nothing. Sorry, my crystal ball is broken.

The way the day started, it looks like another very long flight as they seem to be testing cruise and high Machs.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 29, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 38500 times:

Maybe if someone has the TOW for this flight :d

User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 30, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 38537 times:

Going to Broughton and Derby ... via Nantes?
Return Hambourg, Nordenham, munchen, illescas ?

:D

So a 8 h flight also ! 


User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 31, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 38402 times:

Oups missed Nantes and Saint Nazaire 

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 32, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 38404 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 30):
Going to Broughton and Derby

During the Paris airshow, it was mentioned that the crew will fly over Derby later in the program. So maybe today.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 33, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 38309 times:

I was only partly joking ....
I've also read that 


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 34, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 38272 times:
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@11:55 L :
FL 350 / OAT -51°C / Wind 310°:75 kt
GS = 416 kt ---> Mach .86 / IAS 295 kt. / TAS 491 kt.

11:50 : Now reversing course GS = 537 kt, but climb to FL 390... Sh@t ! I wanted to get a precise wind component( !

[Edited 2013-06-25 03:05:07]


Contrail designer
User currently offlinespeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 38001 times:

2 hours down and all is well...  

WWDD has done a long haul cruise flight at F430 today too...



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User currently offlinebobmuc From Germany, joined Nov 2011, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 37819 times:

At least right now, it looks like a fly-by/over at Saint-Nazaire!

User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 37, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 37829 times:

Just came home from my french lecture and now heading into work, nice to see that the Airliners surveillance center is manned as usual, can't let her fly unsurveyed can we   Wow!


Non French in France
User currently offlinespeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 37816 times:

Quoting bobmuc (Reply 36):

At least right now, it looks like a fly-by/over at Saint-Nazaire!

There is a possibility - they're in the region although still at F165 level flight...



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User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 39, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 37816 times:
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FL 120 / 210 IAS : That's the initial approach speed. See if there are some variations showing another series of configuration tests.


Contrail designer
User currently offlinespeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 37744 times:

EDIT: Nevermind I answered my own question...

Did a real tight 180' turn now...

[Edited 2013-06-25 04:15:15]


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User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 41, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 37677 times:
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Yep : 164 kt = 140 IAS, should be right for a landing config 3 or full.
Altitude is still rock solid. Either a very switrched-on pilot or,more likely an A/P test.



Contrail designer
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 42, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 37640 times:
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13:26 :
153 GS = 143 TAS ---> 116 kt IAS for more than 3 minutes !
Alpha prot shoud be it !



Contrail designer
User currently offlinespeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 43, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 37575 times:

Pihero, do you know when they will do a missed approach at minimums on th approach path?


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User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 37484 times:
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I don't think it will be very soon : They seem to be validating both the control laws and the autopilot for the moment.

171 kt GS = 191 TAS and 158 IAS on a northern track, still at the same IAS.
This confirms the Bracknell Wind at 350°/20 kt.

[Edited 2013-06-25 04:58:24]


Contrail designer
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 37514 times:

It's a 7h flight, so all the way to 17h15...

User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 46, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 37600 times:
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Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 45):
It's a 7h flight, so all the way to 17h15...

Sources appreciated, please !   



Contrail designer
User currently offlinespeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 37578 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 44):

I don't think it will be very soon : They seem to be validating both the control laws and the autopilot for the moment.

For sure I totally understand there are a lot of systems validations to be done!

Like when we install a new radar system it's hardly flick the switch and start working.

I was just wondering how far down the line... Burning for a visit to TLS.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 48, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 37470 times:
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Quoting ferpe (Reply 37):
Just came home from my french lecture and now heading into work, nice to see that the Airliners surveillance center is manned as usual, can't let her fly unsurveyed can we   

It is really nice indeed. And this is what it is all about. Flight testing the A350-XWB, one of the most promising projects in civil aviation in last 20 years or so. And with many posters out here keeping us all up to date with the latest information without turning this thread into an endless and pointless discussion. Here we enjoy the miracle of new airplanes in civil aviation.  


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 49, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 37409 times:

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 48):
And with many posters out here keeping us all up to date with the latest information without turning this thread into an endless and pointless discussion.

We are also lucky to be living in 2013, where we can track almost everything on the internet and watch live streams in high quality.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 50, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 37317 times:
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These tests will be going on and on for the rest of the day. They are now at 162 kt TAS and 133 kt IAS.
If you have some time, have a read of this article on the 380 flight controls trest and fine-tuning... You'll have a better idea of what's going on apart from my boring contributions.
It's really worth a few moments of your aviation fan time   
A380 flight control laws tests from page 12.

[Edited 2013-06-25 05:51:15]

...And at least you'll understand what an aileron waltz is...


[Edited 2013-06-25 05:52:26]


Contrail designer
User currently offlinespeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 37149 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 50):

Thanks I will do that!

Quoting Pihero (Reply 50):
You'll have a better idea of what's going on apart from my boring contributions.

Most definitely not 'boring', Pihero. You are one of the few contributors I look forward to reading posts from.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 37074 times:

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 51):
You are one of the few contributors I look forward to reading posts from.

Dito, as CM once said in another post to me, "you might seem like you are talking to yourselves sometimes but can't add anything valuable to your posts right now " , yours are definitely the ones I read  .


One thing we shall remember about the A350 is the total variability of all the surfaces on the wing and tail (even more then the A380), it means once you have tested a nominal cruise config at a alt/mach/CG/weight combination you can then for this data vary the:

- inner flaps and spoilers position

- outer flaps and spoilers position

- inner ailerons position

- outer ailerons position

to check for increase and decrease of efficiency for every measurement point. I can imagine one varies this in 0.5% increments or thereabouts first and then when a best angle is found one goes in 0.1° increments or so for fine-tuning. The latter might happen down streams in further tests, right now one might be verifying if the best configs are the same as the ones that the CFD and wind-tunnel data has forecasted or weather these shall be adjusted a bit.

[Edited 2013-06-25 06:52:40]


Non French in France
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 37015 times:
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I was just about to cite your variable geometry / cruise adaptated wing on the other thread.
Thanks



Contrail designer
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 36923 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 46):

  

I'm stuck in the nose landing gear bay ... 

Can't say more here   

Thank's for your explanations indeed

[Edited 2013-06-25 07:09:02]

User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1563 posts, RR: 3
Reply 55, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 36821 times:

She's gone from FR24..


BV
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 56, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 36781 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 55):
She's gone from FR24..

yes, there is of course limited coverage from private ADS-B receivers over water, might be on the way to Derby 



Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 57, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 36555 times:

There she is, having been sneaking under radar coverage to attack the Spain via the Pyrenees 


Non French in France
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6689 posts, RR: 11
Reply 58, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 36519 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 56):
yes, there is of course limited coverage from private ADS-B receivers over water, might be on the way to Derby 

Sadly not. Gone in the opposite direction & heading towards Bayonne.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlinebobmuc From Germany, joined Nov 2011, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 36433 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 57):
There she is, having been sneaking under radar coverage to attack the Spain via the Pyrenees

No, opposite direction attacking GB from the south...   all the way at FL120...


User currently offlinebobmuc From Germany, joined Nov 2011, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 36385 times:

Quoting bobmuc (Reply 59):
No, opposite direction attacking GB from the south... all the way at FL120...

Correction: maybe something wrong with my FR24 or my eyes! Now I see AIB4WB flying parallel to the Pyrenees. At least FL was right. Sorry.


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 61, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 36368 times:

Been in the air for about 6hr 15min. Looks like Aviaponcho was right on the money and she's making her way home.

User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 62, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 36294 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 57):
having been sneaking under radar coverage

It is clear we need to find a Biscaye bay fishermen interested in hosting a ADS-B receiver on his both..., can't have her uncovered like this  Wow!



Non French in France
User currently offlineabba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1330 posts, RR: 2
Reply 63, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 36114 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 52):
to check for increase and decrease of efficiency for every measurement point. I can imagine one varies this in 0.5% increments or thereabouts first and then when a best angle is found one goes in 0.1° increments or so for fine-tuning. The latter might happen down streams in further tests, right now one might be verifying if the best configs are the same as the ones that the CFD and wind-tunnel data has forecasted or weather these shall be adjusted a bit.

And I can imagine that they want to do it with different weights and at different speeds and at different altitudes.....  Wow!

[Edited 2013-06-25 08:24:33]

User currently offlineovercast From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 35758 times:

Was that a Go Around or a Touch and Go that I just saw on FR24?

User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 65, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 35255 times:
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Quoting overcast (Reply 64):
Was that a Go Around or a Touch and Go that I just saw on FR24?

Missed that one as I was out, but a touch and go brings less info to the tests : better see the behaviour of the plane in configuration change / gear operations and if very low, the change in the flight control laws.
More later.



Contrail designer
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 66, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 35103 times:
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AS we can't be on the PC all the time, I'd like us to play a game of *Continuous Coverage * of eachj test.
The ones on FR24 would, every 15 minutes or if they see a change in altitude or speed fill in a table as this :

- Time :
- Altitude :
- Track :
- Ground speed :
- Verical speed :

and then we can complete

- Wind :
- TAS :
- CAS :
- Mach :

- Possible system tested :

This will be our telemetry room !


( a copy and paste will be quicker )



Contrail designer
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 67, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 35095 times:
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Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 54):
I'm stuck in the nose landing gear bay ...

...or is it you stuck your nose in the landing gear bay ? I Wonder.   



Contrail designer
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 68, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 34932 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 66):
The ones on FR24 would, every 15 minutes or if they see a change in altitude or speed fill in a table as this :

Taken from my side when I'm on the watch  , you will have to tell me what I do wrong as I post the first data  Wow! .

This will be very interesting in retrospect, not only a documentation of the frame in the prototypes thread (and soon we hope "prototypes AND production thread"    Wow! ) but also a professionally documented flight test tread. Thanks Pihero, will be very valuable as a historical document    .

[Edited 2013-06-25 11:51:04]


Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 69, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 34909 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 54):
I'm stuck in the nose landing gear bay ... 

Just want to salute the best comment of the day    .



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 70, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 34874 times:

Flox Papa has taken a nice picture today:



http://www.flickr.com/photos/florent_peraudeau/9135391785/



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 71, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 34689 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 70):
Flox Papa has taken a nice picture today:

The light show how sculpted the wing-to-body fairing is :
- area rule à la 380
- the same reason which dictates the size of the flap mechanism fairings
- the importance of the trailing edge extensions on that fairing, which I call TEX... ( Airbus note that I patented the name )   

On this picture one can see the important yehudi . Now we know where they store all that fuel !

It shows also the same area ruling for the fuselage junction to the horizontal taiplane...
...and also the characteristics of the flap / aileron / system :
- at takeoff configs ( I'd say 2 here ), the ailerons haven't drooped yet to be aligned with the flaps.
- Note the flap Fowler displacement parallel to the fuselage
- The slats are are an intermediary extension : the slot isn't very pronounced.



Contrail designer
User currently offlinebigsmile From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 164 posts, RR: 4
Reply 72, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 34196 times:

Be ready for tomorrow (Wednesday) with a Thursday too. Not forgetting a Saturday and Sunday too if your lucky  

User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 73, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 33601 times:

I think there's numeric models for flight and flight control law
I might need to calibrate the models with only a "few points" at first for chosen case...

Loks l

Quoting ferpe (Reply 69):

Please note that I was initially counting on some free heating from nearby Li-ion batteries....  So long, those Ni-cd are damn cool 
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 70):

Note sure if it is due to the photo itself but horizontal tail plane looks like small (as advertised)

Pihero's TEX is nice, can we imagine it flowing on other current airbus planes as part of continuous improvement


User currently offlineap305 From India, joined Jan 2000, 531 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 33336 times:

Well well, guess who is awake and ready for work again today ?  The bird sure seems ready to pile on the hours for certification.

[Edited 2013-06-26 01:54:01]

User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 669 posts, RR: 6
Reply 75, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 33356 times:

Quoting bigsmile (Reply 72):
Be ready for tomorrow (Wednesday)

AIB5WB just triggered on my app...
Who wants the first "telemetry" shift?   :P



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineap305 From India, joined Jan 2000, 531 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 33321 times:

Quoting starbucks (Reply 75):

AIB5WB just triggered on my app...
Who wants the first "telemetry" shift? :P

Not me- sitting on a big pile of paperwork   


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 77, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 33374 times:

No worries, I'm on the MF  


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinebobmuc From Germany, joined Nov 2011, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 33356 times:

The next flight test is coming: AIB5WB is online on FR24!

User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 79, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 33208 times:

Seems they had to fix something before going, we'll see when they make the next try.


Non French in France
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 33012 times:

AIB5WB showing back online.


'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 81, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 33040 times:

Moving http://fr24.com/AIB5WB


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 82, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 33001 times:

And airborne.

Altitude: 275 ft (84 m)
V/S: 3200 fpm
Speed: 169 kt (313 km/h, 194 mph)



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32959 times:

Turning West, it seems.


- Time : 0948Z
- Altitude : 5275
- Track : 218
- Ground speed : 301
- Verical speed : 2560



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 84, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32946 times:

11:50 am

Altitude: 9075 ft (2766 m)
V/S: 3456 fpm
Speed: 306 kt (567 km/h, 352 mph)
Track: 219°
Hex: 38A6FB
Squawk: 2620
Pos: 43.5788 / 1.1149



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32921 times:

Seems to be holding steady at 10000 ft, and heading southwest at around 310kt.


'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32878 times:

- Time : 0955
- Altitude : 10150
- Track : 78
- Ground speed : 194
- Verical speed : -128



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 87, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32779 times:

12:10 pm

Altitude: 12475 ft (3802 m)
V/S: 1792 fpm
Speed: 348 kt (644 km/h, 400 mph)
Track: 102°
Hex: 38A6FB
Squawk: 2620
Pos: 43.2103 / 2.1493



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 88, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32789 times:

Hello guys
I've built a google docs spreadsheet for pihero's comment...

I can give you the link by MP

In case,
It will be easier for me to fill this sheet is datas are in the order

Time (z) Altitude (feet) Track Ground speed Vertical speed Pos X Pos Y


So in line

With no tag

thks


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 89, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32778 times:

Altitude: 20550 ft (6264 m)
V/S: 1536 fpm
Speed: 402 kt (745 km/h, 463 mph)
Track: 106°
Hex: 38A6FB
Squawk: 2662
Pos: 43.0753 / 2.8143



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 90, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32774 times:

Now climibing out over the Golfe of Lion, passing Narbonne and settling at FL230

[Edited 2013-06-26 03:21:22]


Non French in France
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 91, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32784 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 82):
And airborne.

Altitude: 275 ft (84 m)
V/S: 3200 fpm
Speed: 169 kt (313 km/h, 194 mph)

This is the METAR :

LFBO 260930Z AUTO 32008KT 280V360 9999 FEW023 19/07 Q1028

With this Wind, 8 kt straight down the runway heading, tAS = 177 kt and by chance CAS = 177 kt too.
so we coud estimate, for the Toulouse airport a QFE of 1028 - 18 hPa = 1010 hPa
for a standard setting : altitude of 275 ft is 3 hPa below Std and for 28 ft / hPa ---> the height was ~190 ft, so very shortly after lift off.

All that to give a gen of some calculations.
We could therefore assume that immediately after takeoff, CAS =177 kt and VS = 3200 ft/min.
Say V2 ~ 175 kt, which makes it some 10 T heavier than the 221.5 T of the first flight which lasted 4:30 hours.
We're in for a longish sortie again... I'd guess some 6 hours +.

[Edited 2013-06-26 03:20:39]


Contrail designer
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 92, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32796 times:
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OUPS !

There is a huge anti-cyclone over the area. The reason they made the choice, I guess.

[Edited 2013-06-26 03:28:12]


Contrail designer
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 669 posts, RR: 6
Reply 93, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32738 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 92):
* bay of Biscay *

Isn't the bay of Biscay on the other side of France?  



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 94, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 32686 times:
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Quoting starbucks (Reply 93):
Isn't the bay of Biscay on the other side of France?

OUPS ! caught !
Yes, it is.
Grovelling apologies !



Contrail designer
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 95, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 32425 times:

Vertical speed -4000 fpm, that was a nice dive  

[Edited 2013-06-26 04:15:02]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 96, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 32387 times:
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13:15 L
Some really tight turns...
One at 60° estimated.

We're in a flight control Normal law protection test, guys.



Contrail designer
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 97, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 32344 times:
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- Time : 13:18 L
- Altitude : 13200
- Track : 190
- Ground speed : 424 kt
- Vertical speed : - 4600 ft/min

- Wind : 350 / 20 kt
- TAS : 405 kt
- CAS : 360 kt
- Mach : .685

high speed dive : validation of the High Speed Protection Law

[Edited 2013-06-26 04:33:58]

[Edited 2013-06-26 04:35:55]


Contrail designer
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 98, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 32419 times:

So Spreadsheet seems to work for now !
We might even be able to fill in flight 1 -4 with FR24 playback (not working that well)

I've lost Airbus flight test schedule presented at AID2013 can someone put it here please ?

Thks


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 99, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 32386 times:

4450 ft above the water, interesting.

[Edited 2013-06-26 04:42:49]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 100, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 32432 times:
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Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 98):
So Spreadsheet seems to work for now !

Thanks. It will allow us to come back this evening and reproduce the test profile.
This is getting exciting.
The only thing we're missing is the radio traffic... I can hope still !   



Contrail designer
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 101, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 32367 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 99):
4450 ft above the water, interesting

...and corrected to the nearest QNH of 1028 : 4030 ft above sea level !

Starlion, I hope you check my altimetry !   



Contrail designer
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 102, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 32450 times:
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They've been at around 150 kt CAS for the past ten minutes or so.
I'd love to have tyheir config, but if it's clean,; they're at an Alpha Protection test again.

Altitude: 4925 ft (1501 m)
V/S: 640 fpm
Speed: 154 kt (285 km/h, 177 mph)
Track: 227

- Wind : 01 /15
- OAT : + 11
- TAS : 146 kt
- CAS : 134 kt
- Mach : .22

???



Contrail designer
User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 32417 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 99):
4450 ft above the water, interesting.

They tried to scare the fishermen on the sea?! Or trying to wash the engines?!



Flying high and low
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 104, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 32336 times:

Quoting teme82 (Reply 103):
They tried to scare the fishermen on the sea?! Or trying to wash the engines?!

Lol.

Don't know about those fishermen, but I would take cover if a flying raccoon is heading my way   



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2589 posts, RR: 1
Reply 105, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 32338 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
When with MSNs 002 and 003 fly?

Sometime october and early 2014 as said before. Rather late IMO. That's the main risk I see to an otherwise smooth flight test campaign so far: not having enough birds in the air soon enough, which is critical to ranking up hours and achieving a fast type certificate. Anyway, for those MSN's we should follow up on things via the production thread.

Quoting bobmuc (Reply 20):
Hi, as we have seen during the first 3 days of test flights, they haven't left the airspace controlled by France ATC.
Are there any rules when they are allowed to fly into other airspace or even to land at other airports?
Or is this just a matter of avoiding paperwork, to request special permissions etc.?

There is surely some paperwork avoidance too, but mainly don't forget that the Airbus telemetry network covers more or less the southern half of France, and specially for these early flights they'll want to stay within telemetry range.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 50):
It's really worth a few moments of your aviation fan time
A380 flight control laws tests from page 12.

Thanks for that!


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 106, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 32202 times:
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Quoting r2rho (Reply 105):
they'll want to stay within telemetry range.

...and today, they're using the test Equipment of the Istres CEV - Flight Test Center -
Precision radar / theodolite /... etc...
They have been in the restricted airspace of the CEV for a very long time...



Contrail designer
User currently offlinemafi29 From Germany, joined Nov 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 32028 times:

another update

Time 14:43
Altitude: 9825 ft (2995 m)
Track: 2°
Speed: 146 kt (270 km/h, 168 mph)
V/S: -768 fpm


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 108, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 31848 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 106):
...and today, they're using the test Equipment of the Istres CEV - Flight Test Center -
Precision radar / theodolite /... etc...
They have been in the restricted airspace of the CEV for a very long time...

Given the altitude of approx 10k feet and speeds around 200kt what can be the test purpose? Haven't they done the approach and landing configs already?



Non French in France
User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 31853 times:

I'm in admiration of the reporting work already done, and the new discipline proposed to record details of the evolution of the A350's flight tests. I can only look forward to enjoying the fruits of the labours of you who are well placed and committed to share this with the rest of the a.net community members.

There was a somewhat humourous reply recently that after the Paris-flyby, that already 0.75% of the 2500hour flight test programme had been completed. After just 4 days of flying, and now into a 5th, I am loosing track of the total flight time to date

I would appreciate if someone could summarise that now, and then add to the data monitored here on an on-going basis the hours logged!

Thanks, and keep up the good work, guys!


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 110, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 31664 times:
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Quoting sassiciai (Reply 109):
I would appreciate if someone could summarise that now, and then add to the data monitored here on an on-going basis the hours logged!

Can someone start a spreadsheet, then ?
Have to go . See you people to-night.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 111, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 31486 times:

It's started
You've got a mail ! :d


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 112, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 31491 times:

Is the call sign for the 350 test flights still AIB350 or have they changed it?

What is the longest distance they have been from take-off point?

Any Atlantic or Med crossings or Nord Kapp trips just yet?

I haven't followed the last few days.

    



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 31344 times:

It's started
You've got a mail ! :d

Please share your straw-man spreadsheet format/content with us - in my experience, the best long-term results come from an iterative review approach in the earliest moments to capture the input from a broad group - but then freeze it! After a (short) while, it becomes too difficult to amend/change/expand. Invite us all to review it until, er, Monday (for example)!

I started after you (signaled that you) did, so I abandon mine henceforth! There will be 5 aircraft in the active flying, perhaps the overall total of 2500hours can influence the design of a 5-ship fleet. But I think i'm moving away from this thread's topic, into spreadsheet design!

I'm very willing to iterate something with you, if you want!


[/quote]


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 114, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 31301 times:
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Currrently has been doing circuits at various speeds and altitudes including quite a few runs at very low speeds and altitudes. Must be testing all those fowlers and other wing devices Pihero has been pointing out at different settings. I keep humming the old movie song from The Magnificent Men and their Flying Machines, with the catchy line 'uppity up up and down-de-de-down-down'


Airline: Airbus
Flight: AIB5WB
Aircraft: Airbus A350-941 (A359)
Reg: F-WXWB
Altitude: 10100 ft (3078 m)
Speed: 222 kt (411 km/h, 255 mph)
Track: 258°
Hex: 38A6FB
Squawk: 2662
Pos: 43.2014 / 4.0382
Radar: T-LFMU2



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 115, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 31233 times:
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Is there any indication or way of knowing if they are ever lowering and subsequently retracting the landing gear in some of the lowest speed passes? Would frequent landing gear deployment be usual so early in a test program?


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 116, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 30998 times:

And MSN001 is back on the ground.

Altitude: 500 ft (152 m)
V/S: -896 fpm
Speed: 140 kt (259 km/h, 161 mph)

Altitude: 375 ft (114 m)
V/S: -896 fpm
Speed: 140 kt (259 km/h, 161 mph)

Altitude: 250 ft (76 m)
V/S: -640 fpm
Speed: 140 kt (259 km/h, 161 mph)

Altitude: 125 ft (38 m)
V/S: -128 fpm
Speed: 137 kt (254 km/h, 158 mph)



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinespeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 117, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 30726 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 112):
Is the call sign for the 350 test flights still AIB350 or have they changed it?

It flies as AIBxxWB. Today was AIB5WB.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 112):
Any Atlantic or Med crossings or Nord Kapp trips just yet?

They have been out over Bay of Biscay (furthest point i saw was out towards Brest), and out over the Med. But nothing further than that.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlinebycac From France, joined Mar 2010, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 29937 times:

He completed his fifth flight today after 5:30 flight.
Photo of her back with the RAT fully deployed
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bycac/9146741112/


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 119, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 29592 times:

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 117):
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 112):
Is the call sign for the 350 test flights still AIB350 or have they changed it?

It flies as AIBxxWB. Today was AIB5WB.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 112):
Any Atlantic or Med crossings or Nord Kapp trips just yet?

They have been out over Bay of Biscay (furthest point i saw was out towards Brest), and out over the Med. But nothing further than that.

Thank you for answering my questions..

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 120, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 29545 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 113):
But I think i'm moving away from this thread's topic, into spreadsheet design!

Please don't . We need everybody.

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 113):
I'm very willing to iterate something with you, if you want!

If the two of you could get something out, it will benefit all of us.
I've just arrived home from four hours in the box brief. and debrief.
I'm knackered so I will peruse your telemetry in thje morning.

Quoting bycac (Reply 118):
Photo of her back with the RAT fully deployed

I confess that I am really astonished with the program advancement : A complete electrical failure test this early in the sfchedule was unexpected. Called "EMER ELEC CONFIG" in Airbus parlance, it is a rather complex failure to deal with : basically on all previous aircraft, it's caused by the loss of all bus bars and the RAT powering an emergency generator through a hydraulic system - the green on all A twins. It warrants a Mayday call.
Once again, the trust these people have in the latest baby is remarkable.

They seem to have kept the system as it was, as the picture bycac showed on # 118 shows a flap 3 config ( ain't she real purty ! ) and the speeds recorded by KarelXWB on # 116 confirm it
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 116):
Altitude: 500 ft (152 m)
V/S: -896 fpm
Speed: 140 kt (259 km/h, 161 mph)

Altitude: 375 ft (114 m)
V/S: -896 fpm
Speed: 140 kt (259 km/h, 161 mph)

Altitude: 250 ft (76 m)
V/S: -640 fpm
Speed: 140 kt (259 km/h, 161 mph)

Altitude: 125 ft (38 m)
V/S: -128 fpm
Speed: 137 kt (254 km/h, 158 mph)

with an average Wind of 320 / 10 kt, equal a 150 kt TAS ~ 150 kt IAS.

Pls note that on a 3° glide, the VS should be 5 times the GS so - ballpark figure - 700 ft/min showing a visual approach with last minute correction to the 3° glide slope of 900 ft/min.

G'night all.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineScipio From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 852 posts, RR: 9
Reply 121, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 29519 times:

Quoting bycac (Reply 118):
He completed his fifth flight today after 5:30 flight.

She  

Airplanes are girls / ladies ...

How else could we boys get so crazy about them?


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 122, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 29218 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 120):
I confess that I am really astonished with the program advancement : A complete electrical failure test this early in the sfchedule was unexpected. Called "EMER ELEC CONFIG" in Airbus parlance, it is a rather complex failure to deal with : basically on all previous aircraft, it's caused by the loss of all bus bars and the RAT powering an emergency generator through a hydraulic system - the green on all A twins. It warrants a Mayday call.
Once again, the trust these people have in the latest baby is remarkable.

They seem to have kept the system as it was, as the picture bycac showed on # 118 shows a flap 3 config ( ain't she real purty ! ) and the speeds recorded by KarelXWB on # 116 confirm it

This then answers the questions I posed, why they seems to be going through all this low speed handling work at low altitude at the Gulf of Lion, they were checking degradation modes of the systems down to RAT based flying including landing configs. I agree, that they dare to come home and land the lady in this config in the 5th flight is amazing, it this is indeed so (and not some special RAT test mode) their confidence in the job done and the lady is really impressive.

I somehow doubt this is the case however, it is just taking such a risk. I would have liked to have landed with my normal electrics running and the RAT deployed, running against some artificial load first (a RAT test mode as said), just to make absolutely sure that the RAT aerodynamics would bring the capacity I would expect. After that has been thoroughly evaluated by the telemetry data I would be prepared to go on landings with only the RAT supporting the aircraft electrics.

[Edited 2013-06-26 20:53:02]


Non French in France
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9981 posts, RR: 96
Reply 123, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 29048 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Pihero (Reply 120):
Once again, the trust these people have in the latest baby is remarkable.

That certainly seems the case, and it has impressed me.

now, though, is NOT the time to start rushing things through over-confidence.   

Rgds


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25016 posts, RR: 85
Reply 124, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 28972 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Scipio (Reply 121):
Airplanes are girls / ladies ...

How else could we boys get so crazy about them?

Some of us prefer to think of them as "he."  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekmz From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 160 posts, RR: 2
Reply 125, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 28742 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 122):
After that has been thoroughly evaluated by the telemetry data I would be prepared to go on landings with only the RAT supporting the aircraft electrics.

I imagine that they are able to go through landing procedure with the RAT and in case there is a problem they revert to normal systems again. I am sure their on board test computers can interfere with the avionics if required.


User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 126, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 28624 times:

Hello guys

In case F-WXWB will fly today, please update the spreadsheet (for those who have the link, you can share it with others also)
I'm going outdoors so... won't be of any help 

Cheers


User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 28462 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 126):
In case F-WXWB will fly today, please update the spreadsheet

Will keep an eye out until 1130Z, after which I'm out as well. As of now, departures at TLS seem to be south bound, but I guess that won't be a problem now.



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 28465 times:

Here is version 0.1 of a very basic flight test log that only records date, flight duration, 1 cell for text (characteristics of the flight) and a url to the current a.net thread, plus a cumulative total by month. In a separate sheet, I plot cumulative total by month against a timeline from June 2013 to end-2014. The graph obviously contains trial data to illustrate what it could look like. Everything will get more complicated as additional aircraft join in

We can record millions of other data per flight - so I invite suggestions from you all. Please think really carefully to avoid the table becoming enormous and full of useless data. Is it valuable to record departure/landing times? Speeds, altitudes, etc? Additional text boxes?

I need some help on how to paste into an a.net thread tables and graphs from Excel. Copy/paste doesn't do it (for me)! Taking a screen shot wont do it either. Uploading as photos works, but is rather time consuming.

Finally, I am not able to maintain this thing accurately, and even now the flight durations to date are from my unreliable memory, and need to be confirmed - somebody with this data please share it with me. I am happy to continue to produce improved versions until we have a version 1.0, but someone else closely involved in the testing must step up and take charge of the "per flight" table


A350 flight test campaign cummulative hours
MSN001 hours per flight


User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 129, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 28411 times:

sassiciai, I've build something on Google drive so a dozen of us can access and update it

It's more detailled as pihero asked

On summary like yours : flight by flight -> maybe it can be fine tune for sure (link are a good move, and cumulative also)
And for selected flight more detailed input from flight radar -> don't kon if it's sustainable
I think you've got the link, have a look

Sturmovik ! all right tks


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 130, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 28045 times:

Time to go flying ?? Something triggered my FR24 app with F-WXWB as registration. If they do they break the sacred french lunch time work curfew (12-14), ambitious souls  .


Non French in France
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1563 posts, RR: 3
Reply 131, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 28045 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 129):
sassiciai, I've build something on Google drive so a dozen of us can access and update it

Well your duration for flight 3 is wrong for a start, it was over 8 hours, 8:45 from memory, 4 was 7:15 or something..



BV
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 132, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 27947 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 131):
Well your duration for flight 3 is wrong for a start, it was over 8 hours, 8:45 from memory, 4 was 7:15 or something..

I think you are commenting sassiciai´'s spreadsheet in post 128, this is just the outline with non actual data, Ponchos google drive spreadsheet is more ambitious with a summary page like sassiciai's and then a separate tab for each flight where the snapshots asked for by Pihero are entered. I have given you the link via PM, please work with them to improve and populate.



Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 133, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 27953 times:

Guys, we are airborne, they sneaked away when we chatted about spreadsheets  , call sign AIB6WB .


Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 134, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 27877 times:

First leg out to Gulf of Lion me thinks:


Airline: Airbus
Flight: AIB6WB
Aircraft: Airbus A350-941 (A359)
Reg: F-WXWB
Altitude: 12900 ft (3932 m)
V/S: -128 fpm
Speed: 224 kt (415 km/h, 258 mph)
Track: 127°
Hex: 38A6FB
Squawk: 2625
Pos: 43.4968 / 1.9129
Radar: F-LFBO1

Edit:
The simplest way to make a snapshot is to just mark + copy what is in the box which gets created after one has clicked on the Aircraft symbol, then paste it here, gives all data available on FR24, no need for special formats on the snapshots we post here, KISS Big grin .

[Edited 2013-06-27 03:47:11]


Non French in France
User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 27830 times:

I am very impressed with the rate at which Airbus is carrying out tests at the moment.

Wonder what happened to the reported rhythm of "one day flight, two (or even 3?) days of reflection, evaluation, and checking"?


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 136, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 27793 times:

Seems they are testing approaches or stalls as they are cycling in a short cycle between 170kt with sink rate -1500ft/min and then back to 35kft and 250kt :

Airline: Airbus
Flight: AIB6WB
Aircraft: Airbus A350-941 (A359)
Reg: F-WXWB
Altitude: 11200 ft (3414 m)
V/S: -2048 fpm
Speed: 183 kt (339 km/h, 211 mph)
Track: 96°
Hex: 38A6FB
Squawk: 2664
Pos: 43.26 / 2.8435
Radar: T-LFMU2

[Edited 2013-06-27 04:04:33]


Non French in France
User currently offlinebobmuc From Germany, joined Nov 2011, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 27564 times:

Circling over water at around FL 150:

Flight: AIB6WB
Aircraft: Airbus A350-941 (A359)
Reg: F-WXWB
Altitude: 14975 ft (4564 m)
V/S: 256 fpm
Speed: 194 kt (359 km/h, 223 mph)
Track: 5°
Hex: 38A6FB
Squawk: 2664
Pos: 43.1157 / 3.8943
Radar: T-LFMU2


User currently offlinemafi29 From Germany, joined Nov 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 138, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 27513 times:

Still out above the Golfe du Lion:

Airline: Airbus
Flight: AIB6WB
Aircraft: Airbus A350-941 (A359)
Reg: F-WXWB
Altitude: 15025 ft (4580 m)
Speed: 217 kt (402 km/h, 250 mph)
Track: 179°
Hex: 38A6FB
Squawk: 2664
Pos: 43.3134 / 3.8297
Radar: T-LFMU2


User currently offlinemafi29 From Germany, joined Nov 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 27443 times:

still ascending and descending quite steeply...

Airline: Airbus
Flight: AIB6WB
Aircraft: Airbus A350-941 (A359)
Reg: F-WXWB
Altitude: 11600 ft (3536 m)
V/S: 2816 fpm
Speed: 199 kt (369 km/h, 229 mph)
Track: 191°
Hex: 38A6FB
Squawk: 2664
Pos: 42.8854 / 3.788
Radar: T-LEGE1


User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 27359 times:

I think we are now risking a big mix of "levels of data" in this thread, the A350 Flight Tests Official Thread. There is data, then information based on that data, and knowledge based on the information

The major events and discussion on them will get a bit lost in posts every few minutes showing FR24 data snapshots. I would propose therefore that the detailed test flight logging move to a new dedicated thread, and leave this one for more subjective/higher level remarks.

I for one find that FR24 playback is quite useful for the history, although it is limited in time to a month or so, I think.

In the spirit of "a picture is worth 1000 words", an FR24 screenshot at the end of each test flight is already a useful trace for the campaign, at a not-all-that-detailed level, with a short textual resume of the flight's main points

My own interest is in following flights when I can, but more so to follow the overall progress towards the 2500 hour target for certification. For that, the micro details of each flight are less interesting for me


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 141, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 27277 times:

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 140):
The major events and discussion on them will get a bit lost in posts every few minutes showing FR24 data snapshots. I would propose therefore that the detailed test flight logging move to a new dedicated thread, and leave this one for more subjective/higher level remarks.

I think we have enough threads, I agree with you we should perhaps not post the FR24 snaphots to often, only when significant changes of flight happens and that we write a comment then at the same time, then a final picture of the flight from FR24 would document it nicely (and Karels spotter picture of course Big grin ).

The detailed tracking is for posting in Ponchos spreadsheet for those that want, there I have now proposed one can dump the same simple FR24 copy format instead of having to write data in cells in the rows.

Thoughts for both?

[Edited 2013-06-27 05:19:12]


Non French in France
User currently offlinemafi29 From Germany, joined Nov 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 27278 times:

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 140):
The major events and discussion on them will get a bit lost in posts every few minutes showing FR24 data snapshots

I think you are referring to my two posts above. My intention for those two post within 10 minutes was to give an impression what they are doing: descending and ascending at up to 3000 fpm between FL150 and 100.

It'S just what a respected user suggested approx. 70 posts above  
Quoting Pihero (Reply 66):
AS we can't be on the PC all the time, I'd like us to play a game of *Continuous Coverage * of eachj test.
The ones on FR24 would, every 15 minutes or if they see a change in altitude or speed fill in a table as this :

So should we continue the sampling the data a that rate, or not? Any comments appreciated!
I have the impression that some people here find it useful. At least for nerds like us  


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 143, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 27268 times:

Quoting mafi29 (Reply 142):
So should we continue the sampling the data a that rate, or not? Any comments appreciated!

I think we shall sample at a sensfull rate, ie when something happens and that we always write in the firs line why we think it is something interesting that happens, ie change altitude or speed significantly and what we think they might be testing with that movement.



Non French in France
User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 27203 times:

One other way to view this discussion about the level of data is the following question:

Is this thread to be used in real-time as a complement to FR24, or as a forum like most other a.net forums where the time that you read the thread is not very important, while the content is mostly relevant and does not have an expiry date?

I know the importance of capturing and keeping data, particularly to calibrate and tune processes/machinery, and have no problem with the idea of capturing data regularly throughout a test flight, but it should be done under the bonnet, while remaining available for when everyone wants to look at it (e.g. when something went wrong)


User currently offlinemucdude From Germany, joined Mar 2012, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 145, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27093 times:

Does anyone know what the other two Airbus planes (AIB1CV and AUB4CJ) are doing in the vicinity? What aircraft type are these? They also seem to do some test flight judging from their flight path.



Also, is the A380 F-WWDD running engine tests with the Trent XWB?



Next flights: ZRH-BOS-ZRH on LX; ZRH-SIN-AKL-SIN-ZRH on SQ
User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27074 times:

Click on any of the aircraft in the FR24 view and FR24 will open up a left-side panel giving a summary of the aircraft, while also painting a trail of its flight since departure.

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 147, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27102 times:

I believe AIB1CV is an A330, no idea about AUB4CJ.

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 146):
Click on any of the aircraft in the FR24 view and FR24 will open up a left-side panel giving a summary of the aircraft, while also painting a trail of its flight since departure.

Not always, FR24 don't know what AIB1CV and AUB4CJ are.

[Edited 2013-06-27 06:13:05]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 148, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27068 times:

Quoting mucdude (Reply 145):
Also, is the A380 F-WWDD running engine tests with the Trent XWB?

No, F-WWDD is MSN4, the EA testbed.

F-WWOW (MSN1) is the RR testbed.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinemucdude From Germany, joined Mar 2012, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27062 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 147):
I believe AIB1CV is an A330, no idea about AUB4CJ.

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 146):
Click on any of the aircraft in the FR24 view and FR24 will open up a left-side panel giving a summary of the aircraft, while also painting a trail of its flight since departure.

Not always, FR24 don't know what AIB1CV and AUB4CJ are.

[Edited 2013-06-27 06:13:05]

Thanks for the info! I was asking because, as you said, in this case fr24 does not show the airplane type.



Next flights: ZRH-BOS-ZRH on LX; ZRH-SIN-AKL-SIN-ZRH on SQ
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 150, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27076 times:

Yes, AIB01CV is an A330:

http://virad.openskymap.net/VM517/DateReport.htm?callsign=AIB01CV



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 151, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27047 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 147):
Not always, FR24 don't know what AIB1CV and AUB4CJ are.

Oooooops!

I stand corrected!

Teaches me to check the facts before replying! Apologies to macdude!



It seems to me that on the small set of flights to-date, the A350 goes east to the Med when the testing is at moderate altitudes (circa 12000ft), and goes west to the Atlantic for high altitude tests. I assume that there must be reason for this. Are these areas closed to normal traffic and for different altitude ranges?


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 152, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27180 times:

Quoting mucdude (Reply 145):
AUB4CJ

Lol, it's AIB4CJ and not AUB4CJ. AIB04CJ is an A330 too:

http://virad.openskymap.net/VM517/DateReport.htm?callsign=AIB04CJ



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 153, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27135 times:

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 144):
I know the importance of capturing and keeping data, particularly to calibrate and tune processes/machinery, and have no problem with the idea of capturing data regularly throughout a test flight, but it should be done under the bonnet, while remaining available for when everyone wants to look at it (e.g. when something went wrong)

In this thread, opened by Pihero we give a picture on what happens with the test flying. Pihero asked that we should give snapshots of the flight at regular intervals so that a later reader can quickly get a feel for what has transpired without having to play through 8 hours of FR24 playback. The proposed method of given comments supported by a snapshot of the data does that IMO, I also think your suggestion of a picture of the flight trace at the end is a good idea.

Normally our threads are a few liners like "now they are flying higher" or "now they are flying lower at xxxx ft". To a reader with some insight into flying and flight test this tells you almost nothing, to get the data in the pane in addition is no big burden on the threads volume and it adds the necessary insight into what is commented.

Until we have a better suggestion I propose we stay with this format for the snapshot (at well selected intervals of course) and normal comments and discussions what is going on as before  .

[Edited 2013-06-27 06:51:08]


Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 154, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27115 times:

Unfortunately FR24 doesn't provide an API for developers, otherwise I would have written an application to automatically read the data and generate charts etc.

http://www.flightradar24.com/faq



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinespeedygonzales From Norway, joined Sep 2007, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 155, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27124 times:

Airbus uses two (main) schemes for flight numbers.
AIB <digits indicating flight number> <last two letters of registration> (e.g. AIB6WB is the 6th flight of F-WXWB) and AIB <last three digits of MSN> <letter indicating flight number> (e.g. AIB699B is 2nd flight of MSN 5699). It seems that the first scheme is used for flight from TLS and the second from XFW.



Las Malvinas son Argentinas
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 156, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27117 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 154):
Unfortunately FR24 doesn't provide an API for developers, otherwise I would have written an application to automatically read the data and generate charts etc.

What a about an HTML scraper? You could search the correct flight and then record the trace, to later write to a table 



Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 157, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27085 times:

After four hours it is still the same it seems, up and down in the Istres restriction area (about 8 times now) and penduling in altitude around 4,2kft and speeds between 160 and 220kt:

Airline: Airbus
Flight: AIB6WB
Aircraft: Airbus A350-941 (A359)
Reg: F-WXWB
Altitude: 13700 ft (4176 m)
V/S: -768 fpm
Speed: 160 kt (296 km/h, 184 mph)
Track: 171°
Hex: 38A6FB
Squawk: 2664
Pos: 42.6428 / 4.0877
Radar: T-LEGE1



Non French in France
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3740 posts, RR: 11
Reply 158, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 26952 times:

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 140):
I think we are now risking a big mix of "levels of data" in this thread, the A350 Flight Tests Official Thread. There is data, then information based on that data, and knowledge based on the information

Honestly... I'm not sure Airbus engineers get that much data themselves from the telemetry... 



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinebobmuc From Germany, joined Nov 2011, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 159, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 26820 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 154):
Unfortunately FR24 doesn't provide an API for developers, otherwise I would have written an application to automatically read the data and generate charts etc.

I think, Airbus should provide such an API for their flight plans AND their flight recordings... this would made many things easier... at least for us and this thread!     


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 160, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 26564 times:
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We have to try and enlist fishing boats in the Gulf of Lyon to send in reports of what evolutions they are seeing. At least the fish there are seeing a lot of the raccoon princess today.


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 161, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 26400 times:

I've been pondering a bit what they might be doing, they are still carving around at 150-220kt at low altitude. It can of course be system work but I think it is exploring low speed aerodynamics. One of the more interesting things one want to know early on is how much one can stress the wing at different configs, altitudes, speeds, weights, CGs.... This is especially relevant for low speed start and landing configs where you always work with Vstall + margin.

The size of that Vs and the needed margin has to be explored for the nominal settings of the surfaces I mentioned up thread and then tried with small changes for each wing surface in each config. If Airbus can for instance increase the inner aileron droop for start with say 1° they will gain in start performance or take of with more weight. The same goes for the landing config, more aileron droop without danger for tip stalls is just cheer "Sahne" as we say in Dinglish   . And at the end of the day this has to be tested in the BIG wind-tunnel, the Gulf of Lion  Wow! .


This is stuff that it is convenient to know early in the program because all these speeds and margin will then serve as givens for all other work like procedure speeds, certification work and finally manual work etc. So a lot of flying in and out of stall buffeting me thinks today, that is fun work. It is always nice to test the limits of a bird you start to think is a nice one, the little vices she then throws at you will be met with "ooops, she is a bit bitchy at times  " . It is like driving a car on an icy road with big nice (soft!) snow-banks, you can let her dance ever so gently and just enjoy balancing on the limit    .

[Edited 2013-06-27 08:50:24]


Non French in France
User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 162, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26338 times:

Looks like they are heading home now, back up to FL200 for the trip back to TLS under ATC direction, after spending about 5 hours at around FL120 (+/- some 1000s of feet!) - doing what ferpe outlines above

I notice that they made one loop to below an extended French/Spanish border, and on that loop, towards the southern edge, did a few tight turns. Wish we could know what they are doing!


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 163, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26319 times:
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Quoting ferpe (Reply 161):
I've been pondering a bit what they might be doing, they are still carving around at 150-220kt at low altitude. It can of course be system work but I think it is exploring low speed aerodynamics

Would you have any insight if this early in the test flight program this would also involve deploying & retracting landing gear to explore extreme low speed handling characteristics? Part of me says they very well may be doing it so as to document/plot the entire range matrix of optional settings, including using landing gear as speed brakes, but part of me also worries about relying on a landing gear system that what has only operated in real life 15 times in if my count is right, including the 3 flights on Day 2? We still need a landing today to make the number even!



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 164, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26302 times:

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 162):
did a few tight turns.

Tight turns is part of your testing of loading up the wing as I described, it includes un-clean tight turns to check for those margins at the wings outer parts when the flows goes away from ideal. There are hundreds of military pilots who have died of tip stalls in the last turn to final because this testing was not done rigorous enough in the 50:ies and 60:ies (and the designers drooped the ailerons to gain approach speed). If you wing stalls asymmetrically when you turn to final in a VFR circuit you are in real real trouble...

[Edited 2013-06-27 09:03:58]


Non French in France
User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 165, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26257 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 164):
Tight turns is part of your testing of loading up the wing

Understand! Thanks

It actually looks that while they may be heading in the general direction of "home", they are still hard at it, at speeds fluctuating in the 200 - 130kts, with vertical rates of 2000ft/min - not exactly what normal ATC will call for! Also down from FL200 they adopted when they broke out of the loop pattern they held for most of the flight to about FL120 currently


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 166, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26285 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 163):
Would you have any insight if this early in the test flight program this would also involve deploying & retracting landing gear to explore extreme low speed handling characteristics? Part of me says they very well may be doing it so as to document/plot the entire range matrix of optional settings, including using landing gear as speed brakes, but part of me also worries about relying on a landing gear system that what has only operated in real life 15 times in if my count is right, including the 3 flights on Day 2? We still need a landing today to make the number even!

They would definitely have to check how the LG affects the flow in all configs, it is part of the carving long hours in the same height and speed ranges checking all these permutations (and giving the guys back home Gigabytes of data to sift through  ). Re the LG cycling, I would think a lot of that can be checked on the ground and verified in flight. What they have to check is the whole LG deployment envelope but that should be pretty straight forward.



Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 167, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26262 times:

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 165):
It actually looks that while they may be heading in the general direction of "home", they are still hard at it,

Yup, let's see what things they will test for landing today, they might land with a slightly different droop setting on the movables if the telemetry center have been able to give them the clearance.

We have 12kt headwind in the direction of the runway, should be added to the FR24 groundspeeds.

[Edited 2013-06-27 09:15:54]


Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 168, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26220 times:

Nope, we want to fly more  Wow! ! I have been thinking about the crew, they work hard concentration 8 hour shifts in a naked aircraft, they must have a coffee-cooker, microwave oven and toilet somewhere among all those computer racks   


Non French in France
User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 169, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26189 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 168):
Nope, we want to fly more Wow! ! I have been thinking about the crew, they work hard concentration 8 hour shifts in a naked aircraft, they must have a coffee-cooker, microwave oven and toilet somewhere among all those computer racks

Guess what's inside all these big black flight bags they carry!


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 170, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26203 times:

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 169):
Guess what's inside all these big black flight bags they carry!

Mothers cheesecake (but what about the toilet)  , as for their flying, more low speed checks slowly coming lower down and closer to approach, think they turned in after this:

Airline: Airbus
Flight: AIB6WB
Aircraft: Airbus A350-941 (A359)
Reg: F-WXWB
Altitude: 8000 ft (2438 m)
Speed: 170 kt (315 km/h, 196 mph)
Track: 2°
Hex: 38A6FB
Squawk: 2605
Pos: 43.3556 / 1.9111
Radar: F-LFBO1

[Edited 2013-06-27 09:42:19]


Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 171, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 26135 times:

Sassicaia had a better oiverview picture so deleted mine. A another day of low speed work in the Gulf of Lions .

I got the speed on short final to 128kt + 12kt = 140kt, for Pihero to comment (measured on TLS radar which updates more often and therefore have less overshoot in the values)


And now we all wait for Karels landing config shot!, what can you show us there? 

[Edited 2013-06-27 10:06:47]


Non French in France
User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 172, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 26177 times:

So back on ground after another 6.5 hours.

From the shared spreadsheet, that takes MSN0001 up to 36.71 hours (latest best estimate) in just 2 weeks!

Here's my photo of to-day's flight

Flight 6, 27 June 2013, duration 6.51 hours


User currently offlinesassiciai From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2013, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 173, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 26014 times:

All,

We have been debating the pros and cons today of recording some flight details regularly during the test flights.

One URGENT remark - any recording destined for serious use must have an accurate and consistent time-stamp. There is a new recording in the shared spreadsheet which is timestamped 19:37 - I don't know when it was made, but in my position in Belgium, it is currently 19.08, and by UTC, it is 17.08!

As this data comes from FR24 which displays in UTC, please take care that your pastes show UTC. Otherwise, after a series of posts using "local time" from Australia, then America, then Europe, then New Zealand and then Canada, the reader will have a hard time understanding the true performance of this aircraft! LOL!


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 174, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 26067 times:
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Guys,
Came just in time for the approach / landing. Here my recording :

First LFBO's Metar :

LFBO 271630Z AUTO 32013KT 9999 NSC 23/07 Q1024

Then the approach :

• Altitude: 2575 ft (785 m)
• V/S: -512 fpm
• Speed: 156 kt (289 km/h, 180 mph)
• Track: 324°


• Altitude: 2050 ft (625 m)
• V/S: -896 fpm
• Speed: 154 kt (285 km/h, 177 mph)
• Track: 324°


• Altitude: 1725 ft (526 m)
• V/S: -1024 fpm
• Speed: 143 kt (265 km/h, 165 mph)
• Track: 325°


• Altitude: 1625 ft (495 m)
• V/S: -512 fpm
• Speed: 140 kt (259 km/h, 161 mph)
• Track: 331°


• Altitude: 1325 ft (404 m)
• V/S: -896 fpm
• Speed: 134 kt (248 km/h, 154 mph)
• Track: 324°


• Altitude: 1050 ft (320 m)
• V/S: -896 fpm
• Speed: 133 kt (246 km/h, 153 mph)
• Track: 317°


• Altitude: 925 ft (282 m)
• V/S: -768 fpm
• Speed: 133 kt (246 km/h, 153 mph)
• Track: 323°


• Altitude: 800 ft (244 m)
• V/S: -768 fpm
• Speed: 134 kt (248 km/h, 154 mph)
• Track: 324°


• Altitude: 475 ft (145 m)
• V/S: -1152 fpm
• Speed: 136 kt (252 km/h, 157 mph)
• Track: 328°


• Altitude: 150 ft (46 m)
• V/S: -768 fpm
• Speed: 135 kt (250 km/h, 155 mph)
• Track: 323°


• Altitude: 125 ft (38 m)
• V/S: -768 fpm
• Speed: 135 kt (250 km/h, 155 mph)
• Track: 323°


Landing at 18 :47 L.

From the last two, we can determine Vapp = 148 kt ( to store for future reference on weight / configuration )

Taking ferpe's #133 post at 12:35, we have a 6 hrs 15 mins flight for today. ( sassiciai and Poncho, pls spread ! )

With a quick read of the day's posts, I agree with ferpe on most things + probabvly some tweaking of the control laws.
Sorry to have left you guys today as I was busy drawing sim training progs.

Glad I wasn't missed as the contributions are top notch.

Thank you all for making it interesting, fun and informative.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 175, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 25886 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 168):
I have been thinking about the crew, they work hard concentration 8 hour shifts in a naked aircraft, they must have a coffee-cooker, microwave oven and toilet somewhere among all those computer racks

Yup, they would never accept an airplane without a coffee maker.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.