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Emirates Increases Bangkok To 6 Times Daily  
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4716 posts, RR: 44
Posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16797 times:

Dear All,

Emirates has officially announced today that they will be further increasing frequencies on its popular Bangkok route effective 27OCT13 with the launch of a new 6th daily frequency.

The new service is operated by a B772ER departing DXB at 1520 and returning back at 0545 (local time) with a quick 90 minute turn around at BKK airport.

FYI in 2012, the market size demand between DXB and BKK itself was 310,000 passengers and the top routes that feed EK's BKK bound flights via DXB are Paris, Hamburg, London, Nice, Manchester, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Kuwait, Copenhagen and Milan !

Source: http://www.ameinfo.com/emirates-anno...ease-capacity-dubai-bangkok-348196

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 791 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16669 times:

It's amazing that EK has that much traffic when all of those routes can be done non-stop by locally based airlines - just shows how much business EK has won from legacies.

User currently offlinemdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16500 times:

With the right equipment EK has managed to grow the route in the past few years. However, with the B787 and A350 coming into the market over the coming years, I'd expect more Euro carriers coming back to Thailand as these airplanes will help to make the Thai market more attractive for them to operate.

User currently offlineAF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16410 times:

No wonder why, at the same time, we see European legacies reducing frequencies and going there with high density planes

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 2):
However, with the B787 and A350 coming into the market over the coming years, I'd expect more Euro carriers coming back to Thailand as these airplanes will help to make the Thai market more attractive for them to operate.

I have my doubts. If the yields are still very low, it won't be much more profitable to fly the B787/A350 than a crammed 10 abreast B77W. It might help reduce the gas bill, but without more premium traffic, European carriers will keep struggling


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 894 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16218 times:
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" it's amazing that EK has that much traffic when all of those routes can be done non-stop by locally based airlines - just shows how much business EK has won from legacies."


Emirates is shuttling people between Europe and Thailand, that's it, and that's that

For Emirates Europe is the gift that keeps on giving


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7927 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15973 times:

Current schedule, with new flight slotted in - outbound is a perfect fit but they already have an 05:45 arrival back at DXB, obviously there'll be a reshuffle or I've misunderstood - but you can see the existing frequencies anyway.

03:05 → 12:25 DXB-BKK Emirates 384
03:40 → 13:00 DXB-BKK Emirates 376
08:50 → 18:10 DXB-BKK Emirates 418
09:40 → 19:15 DXB-BKK Emirates 372
15:20 → 01:40 DXB-BKK Emirates NEW
20:55 → 06:40 DXB-BKK Thai 518
23:00 → 08:20 DXB-BKK Emirates 374

01:35 → 04:40 BKK-DXB Emirates 385
02:40 → 05:45 BKK-DXB Emirates 419
02:40 → 05:45 BKK-DXB Emirates NEW??
09:55 → 13:00 BKK-DXB Emirates 375
15:25 → 18:30 BKK-DXB Emirates 377
16:15 → 19:40 BKK-DXB Thai 517
21:20 → 00:30 BKK-DXB Emirates 373

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
For Emirates Europe is the gift that keeps on giving

I would argue that for Thai tourism, Emirates is the gift that keeps on giving, no way this volume of traffic existed before Emirates. One or two airlines may have dropped out - SAS? - and yields for the legacy carriers may have dipped, but this is mostly new traffic, punters who would have previously gone to Spain or Greece. Well done Emirates and well done Thailand, one of the world's most welcoming and nice cultures.

http://www.toystudiobkk.com/?lang=en



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinejohnclipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 15751 times:

The amount of russian carriers in BKK is absolutely staggering. I wonder why EK hasn't tapped that market as well.

User currently onlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 15282 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 5):
obviously there'll be a reshuffle or I've misunderstood

EK419 comes in from SYD (and CHC), so isn't likely to change due to issues it would cause to the timings here. There will be more spacing in the southern summer to allow for daylight savings time here in Australia, which sees the flights shift forward a bit in both directions.


User currently offlinemow From Israel, joined Dec 2005, 187 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 15180 times:

Quoting johnclipper (Reply 6):

EK's double daily to MOW (77W/388) and daily to LED suggest otherwise.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 15140 times:
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What is the equipment (how many A380s per day)? Thanks in advance.

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):
the market size demand between DXB and BKK itself was 310,000 passengers

What?!? That is amazing. Any hint to the seasonal trend?

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 5):
I would argue that for Thai tourism, Emirates is the gift that keeps on giving, no way this volume of traffic existed before Emirates.

   Nations that sign open bilaterals are likely to benefit from unexpected added business.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7927 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 15032 times:

Btw AUH-BKK is also Etihad's most lucrative route, three 777-300ERs a day each way, and Qatar do it four times a day too (mix of Airbus and 777).


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14184 times:

So what is Thai, BA etc doing wrong? Why do people prefer extending their journey by several hours to use Emirates?

User currently offlinecityairline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13849 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 10):
Btw AUH-BKK is also Etihad's most lucrative route, three 777-300ERs a day each way

I was on a BKK-AUH flight a few months ago with a load of 124 passengers on a 77W (configured with 412 seats). Although one single flight doesn't say much, this load was extremly bad. I spoke to the crew who said that this flight was always quite empty due to bad timing on arrival, meaning no provided connections to Europe.



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3840 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13565 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 11):

So what is Thai, BA etc doing wrong? Why do people prefer extending their journey by several hours to use Emirates?

Maybe it has to do with prices. If EK is undercutting Thai and BA, then some people won't mind paying less in exchange for a longer trip.


User currently offlineOM617 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 12513 times:

Sorry, not directly in the business, but something doesn't add up for me:

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):
FYI in 2012, the market size demand between DXB and BKK itself was 310,000 passengers

310,000 pax per year = 850 per day

6 flights assuming they use only the 330-200, their smallest aircraft, means 1,422 available seats per day. (I'm sure they will actually use larger 777s or even 380s on at least a couple flights, right?)

Are they really willing to sacrifice at least 572 empty seats per day just to have, what, all possible connections to Europe/USA?

Quoting AF185 (Reply 3):
I have my doubts. If the yields are still very low, it won't be much more profitable to fly the B787/A350 than a crammed 10 abreast B77W. It might help reduce the gas bill, but without more premium traffic, European carriers will keep struggling

Norwegian is scheduled to fly 787s to BKK from OSL and ARN, once weekly each. Are you saying you think this is doomed, or is their business model incomparable with the likes of SAS?

Thanks,
OM617


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 674 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12151 times:

Quoting cityairline (Reply 12):
I was on a BKK-AUH flight a few months ago with a load of 124 passengers on a 77W (configured with 412 seats). Although one single flight doesn't say much, this load was extremly bad. I spoke to the crew who said that this flight was always quite empty due to bad timing on arrival, meaning no provided connections to Europe.

I travelled MAD-DXB-BKK in April/May ... both BKK flights were 77Ws ... and both were about 60% full only. I am not sure if I got lucky and how can EK sustain so many frequencies?


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4716 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11951 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 15):

I travelled MAD-DXB-BKK in April/May ... both BKK flights were 77Ws

April-May is the ultra low season for both Europe and Asia bound demand hence you experienced such loads.


User currently offlinemcogator From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11456 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 16):
April-May is the ultra low season for both Europe and Asia bound demand hence you experienced such loads.

I made the mistake of going to Thailand in April of last year. It was miserably hot and humid outside, and I've been to Dubai in the summer and live in Florida. My wife and I would wake up at 6am to go walk around, and by noon we had to go back to the hotel because we were exhausted from the relentless heat. We did fly DL from NRT, and the flight was close to, if not 100% full.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11390 times:
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Quoting OM617 (Reply 14):
Are they really willing to sacrifice at least 572 empty seats per day just to have, what, all possible connections to Europe/USA?

What do you mean empty? 50% to 70% of EK's seats will be connections *and* the best profit is with a load factor around 82%. In other words, EK should offer, with rounding 2000 to 3500 seats per day. If anything, EK has room to add more seats to BKK thanks to their connections.

Quoting OM617 (Reply 14):
Norwegian is scheduled to fly 787s to BKK from OSL and ARN, once weekly each.

They should do well. I would expect frequency to rise quickly. I've stated before the #1 threat to the mid-east carriers is P2P. However, twice per week isn't real competition vs. 42 per week... (I'm giving Norwegian credit for connections too.)

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineJHwk From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11338 times:

Lots of mideast tourists to BKK. It always amazes me that ~60% of the people doing the health check at Bumrungrad are from the region.

User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11044 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 11):
So what is Thai, BA etc doing wrong? Why do people prefer extending their journey by several hours to use Emirates?

It is some more hours but it isn't much more time... Thing is you're still leaving one evening and arriving the next. Those extra hours don't mean much to most people. The better service (perceived or real) and lower price (perceived or real) means more. There is much more to the equation than time and frequency.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10817 times:
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I'd love to know the O&D points for EK's flights to BKK. I'd bet more are outside of Western Europe than many here assume...

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 11):

So what is Thai, BA etc doing wrong? Why do people prefer extending their journey by several hours to use Emirates?

Take a look at EK's connections. Due to relatively lower frequencies, EK is generally able to offer a more convenient connection for those not originating in a European hub (LHR, FRA, CDG, IST and AMS. MAD has no direct.... Does MUC have a flight?) It takes a large O&D market to fly that far.

Now charters will compete on a few flight a week basis... IMHO, that is part of the competition EK has done well against (thanks to frequency, the vacation may be the length that is best for the visitor). But there are too many O&D points in Europe sans a direct flight to BKK. For that, EK must only compete on the experience and price.

EK will pull travelers from Europe (including SVO, LED, and WAW), the mid-east, and some from Africa too. From Eastern Europe on over, there is some competition from IST, but otherwise they have a 'free ride.' So European customers are a bonus.

Quoting JHwk (Reply 19):
Lots of mideast tourists to BKK.

   And those customers will not be considering a European airline...

Quoting OM617 (Reply 14):
assuming they use only the 330-200, their smallest aircraft

EK has A380s, 77Ws, and 77Es on the route. I don't know all the metal used, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that EK starts with the 77E to BKK and up-gauges from there... See my post #18. EK will fly a HUGE number of connections. The 310,000 pax/year were for those staying in Dubai for at least a night. EK will most certainly have connections.   

For Thailand, this is great news (more tourists). I personally wonder, why haven't I heard about a 2nd daily to HKT? They started service way back in December! Isn't it growing as well as planned.     

http://www.emirates.com/english/abou...s/news_detail.aspx?article=1203470

Ok, being serious, any hints on a 2nd HKT flight? (Sort of on thread...) I expected 2X/day to HKT well before 6X to BKK.   

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineBoysteve From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10656 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 15):
I travelled MAD-DXB-BKK in April/May ... both BKK flights were 77Ws ... and both were about 60% full only

April is the month with most oppressive heat in Bangkok so not a good month to judge.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24075 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9767 times:

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 1):
It's amazing that EK has that much traffic when all of those routes can be done non-stop by locally based airlines

The problem is that the locally based legacy airlines can't operate routes like BKK profitably due to their cost structures.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 100
Reply 24, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8994 times:
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This is one of the a.net threads where I come away learning quite a bit! I must say I enjoy those threads.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
The problem is that the locally based legacy airlines can't operate routes like BKK profitably due to their cost structures.

Its not just that. EK has (IIRC) 33 European ports to pull passengers to transfer to BKK. They also have 18 cities in the mid east and 21 cities in Africa (plus Mauritas and Seychelles potential 'vacation to vacation' travelers) to connect.

How many cities in Europe have the traffic to go to BKK? Ok, I was shocked to count 21 cities in Europe already connected on the airline route mapper... But MAN, NCL, GLA, BHX, DUB, LYN, BCN, LIS, PRG, VCE, GVA, NCE, and HAM all lack direct service to BKK. All of them EK destinations...

If we assume 20 pax/day from each city, that is already 260/day.

In Africa, I was surprised to see on the airline route mapper six routes to BKK (but they are, in general, geographically closer and thus possible with smaller gauge flights). But that leaves another 15 EK could connect. Someone needs to explain to me why ZERO cities in Saudi are directly connected to BKK. I never expected to see that! That leaves 4 cities plus Sana'a in Yemen that EK could feed to BKK without direct competition.

Its not just price competition. EK has dozens of cities to draw feed where they offer the best frequency and fragmentation for connections. Build upon 310,000 O&D pax/year, that allows for this frequency.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
25 Post contains links and images SCQ83 : BKK is the "ultimate" ME3 destination for a variety of reasons. For instance, I now live in Paris (not a secondary city to say something ) and I will
26 Thomas_Jaeger : I did look at the Europe-Asia market in a lot detail last December for a study we published on ch-aviation. We also analyzed the non-stop capacity cha
27 Post contains images lightsaber : Tough choice. Its amazing how pricey vacations are with family... I think the way EK helps is they are a numbers run company. If the numbers say add
28 AF185 : Their business model is indeed different, with lower operational costs than legacies like SAS or AF. Norwegian has a good chance to make this route s
29 HELyes : Finnair still serves BKK daily in summer, 2x daily in winter. Carrying some package holidaymakers on scheduled flights helps in winter season.
30 ASA : I hear ya! It was hot indeed ... and HUMID, my god! Even DAC is nothing compared to BKK!
31 idealstandard : By and large, much, much cheaper. People are happy to add a few hours if they are saving a couple of hundred quid. Factor that into a family of four
32 lutfi : Confuses me as well, as KLM fly to CGK.
33 curiousflyer : May I ask why all these people go to Thailand rather than, say, Malaysia or India?
34 lutfi : Hmm, that is a bit like asking why people go to France, rather than Russia or Germany... Thailand has great food, beaches, jungles, culture and the to
35 388crazy : I'm also one of those people, I flew MEL-KUL-DXB-HYD and HYD-DXB-SIN-MEL, It was a saving of several hundred dollars compared to SQ and MH which woul
36 qf002 : Hate to nitpick, but this would have been SYD-BKK-DXB. EK doesn't fly SYD-KUL.
37 OM617 : So, the 310,000 figure does NOT include connections? And that accounts for my "empty seats"? Now it is making sense to me; thanks! Still, wow, that i
38 ConcordeLoss : I believe that Saudi Arabia had some diplomatic problems with Thailand back the nineties where they decided to end any commercial relationships and b
39 migair54 : A big amount of money in this route is because of cargo and extra baggage specially from and to africa. Everytime I go BKK I hang around after checkin
40 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you. I didn't know about that. It amazes me how long some of these disputes can go on... They need to read a book called "The Lexus and the Oli
41 lutfi : Infamously, a Thai couple working for a Saudi prince stole a fair amount of jewelry in 1989 - "The Blue Diamond Affair" The Thai police recovered all
42 Lufthansa747 : EK MNL-DXB not surprisingly has usually 97-98% load factor on the 2 class 777-300ER. It's too low yield for Euro carriers, when I flew EK J, it was 3
43 thaiflyer : Also there is the fact that the Saudi's are not really loved by the Thai's and they are quiet happy with this frozen relationship.
44 MAN2SIN2BKK : I have done this return 4 times in the past year (the latest last week) and each flight has been fully loaded; I expect Etihad to introduce an additi
45 ConcordeLoss : Any particular reason they're not liked?
46 thaiflyer : Not that i know of. But lets say that a lot of Thai are not fond of curtain races. I'm sorry but i don't know how to say it in a political correct wa
47 Post contains links cedarjet : Thai-Saudi relations are hilarious. Are you kidding? Extraordinary episode in which the Thai authorities rescued some stolen jewels and returned them
48 Post contains links lawair : To continue the whole Thailand-Saudi Arabia discussion, I noticed an article online (from the non-Thai perspective) about how Saudi Arabians are still
49 Post contains links Cassi : Nevertheless, it seems that the growth of international traffic is actually slowing down at Suwarnabhumi this year. In the first 5 months of the year,
50 SCQ83 : They moved Air Asia (and low-cost airlines in general) to Don Mueang... and Air Asia is huge in Bangkok.
51 Prost : Here in Seattle, I ran in to a young couple travelling to BKK on EK via DXB, which is approximately 3000 miles out of the way versus flying via ICN. O
52 ASA : My friends in Seattle regularly go SEA-DXB-DAC ... because not many good options to DAC. For them it's about 1500 miles more than other options ... b
53 Thomas_Jaeger : I have done BKK-AUH-ORD-DFW as well before when the only options in C via North Asia that were available at a similar price point were AA, UA, DL and
54 LAXintl : I guess you did not notice TK serves Jakarta daily.
55 Post contains images lightsaber : I think it was a bug in the software. But still, why aren't the larger secondary airports of Indonesia connected to Europe or at least DXB or some ot
56 Cassi : And KLM as well (KL809/810). Yes, the flight makes a technical stop in KUL.
57 Post contains images airpearl : Technically, not a technical stop. Passengers and cargo come on and off too at KUL
58 EK413 : It's just amazing how EK expand existing routes and top it off utilising high density aircraft. Just wondering how this will slot in with the runway
59 Viscount724 : Current EK schedule DXB-DAC shows 2 77W and 1 A332.
60 Post contains images ASA : you are probably right ... I know they have 3x flights and I always got 77Ws, I assumed the rest that is a HUGE % of DAC volumes ... with so little r
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