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Emirates Increases Bangkok To 6 Times Daily  
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4754 posts, RR: 43
Posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16973 times:

Dear All,

Emirates has officially announced today that they will be further increasing frequencies on its popular Bangkok route effective 27OCT13 with the launch of a new 6th daily frequency.

The new service is operated by a B772ER departing DXB at 1520 and returning back at 0545 (local time) with a quick 90 minute turn around at BKK airport.

FYI in 2012, the market size demand between DXB and BKK itself was 310,000 passengers and the top routes that feed EK's BKK bound flights via DXB are Paris, Hamburg, London, Nice, Manchester, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Kuwait, Copenhagen and Milan !

Source: http://www.ameinfo.com/emirates-anno...ease-capacity-dubai-bangkok-348196

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16845 times:

It's amazing that EK has that much traffic when all of those routes can be done non-stop by locally based airlines - just shows how much business EK has won from legacies.

User currently offlinemdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16676 times:

With the right equipment EK has managed to grow the route in the past few years. However, with the B787 and A350 coming into the market over the coming years, I'd expect more Euro carriers coming back to Thailand as these airplanes will help to make the Thai market more attractive for them to operate.

User currently offlineAF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 16586 times:

No wonder why, at the same time, we see European legacies reducing frequencies and going there with high density planes

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 2):
However, with the B787 and A350 coming into the market over the coming years, I'd expect more Euro carriers coming back to Thailand as these airplanes will help to make the Thai market more attractive for them to operate.

I have my doubts. If the yields are still very low, it won't be much more profitable to fly the B787/A350 than a crammed 10 abreast B77W. It might help reduce the gas bill, but without more premium traffic, European carriers will keep struggling


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 942 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 16394 times:
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" it's amazing that EK has that much traffic when all of those routes can be done non-stop by locally based airlines - just shows how much business EK has won from legacies."


Emirates is shuttling people between Europe and Thailand, that's it, and that's that

For Emirates Europe is the gift that keeps on giving


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8060 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 16149 times:

Current schedule, with new flight slotted in - outbound is a perfect fit but they already have an 05:45 arrival back at DXB, obviously there'll be a reshuffle or I've misunderstood - but you can see the existing frequencies anyway.

03:05 → 12:25 DXB-BKK Emirates 384
03:40 → 13:00 DXB-BKK Emirates 376
08:50 → 18:10 DXB-BKK Emirates 418
09:40 → 19:15 DXB-BKK Emirates 372
15:20 → 01:40 DXB-BKK Emirates NEW
20:55 → 06:40 DXB-BKK Thai 518
23:00 → 08:20 DXB-BKK Emirates 374

01:35 → 04:40 BKK-DXB Emirates 385
02:40 → 05:45 BKK-DXB Emirates 419
02:40 → 05:45 BKK-DXB Emirates NEW??
09:55 → 13:00 BKK-DXB Emirates 375
15:25 → 18:30 BKK-DXB Emirates 377
16:15 → 19:40 BKK-DXB Thai 517
21:20 → 00:30 BKK-DXB Emirates 373

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
For Emirates Europe is the gift that keeps on giving

I would argue that for Thai tourism, Emirates is the gift that keeps on giving, no way this volume of traffic existed before Emirates. One or two airlines may have dropped out - SAS? - and yields for the legacy carriers may have dipped, but this is mostly new traffic, punters who would have previously gone to Spain or Greece. Well done Emirates and well done Thailand, one of the world's most welcoming and nice cultures.

http://www.toystudiobkk.com/?lang=en



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinejohnclipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 836 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15927 times:

The amount of russian carriers in BKK is absolutely staggering. I wonder why EK hasn't tapped that market as well.

User currently onlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2949 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15458 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 5):
obviously there'll be a reshuffle or I've misunderstood

EK419 comes in from SYD (and CHC), so isn't likely to change due to issues it would cause to the timings here. There will be more spacing in the southern summer to allow for daylight savings time here in Australia, which sees the flights shift forward a bit in both directions.


User currently offlinemow From Israel, joined Dec 2005, 191 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15356 times:

Quoting johnclipper (Reply 6):

EK's double daily to MOW (77W/388) and daily to LED suggest otherwise.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15316 times:
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What is the equipment (how many A380s per day)? Thanks in advance.

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):
the market size demand between DXB and BKK itself was 310,000 passengers

What?!? That is amazing. Any hint to the seasonal trend?

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 5):
I would argue that for Thai tourism, Emirates is the gift that keeps on giving, no way this volume of traffic existed before Emirates.

   Nations that sign open bilaterals are likely to benefit from unexpected added business.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8060 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15208 times:

Btw AUH-BKK is also Etihad's most lucrative route, three 777-300ERs a day each way, and Qatar do it four times a day too (mix of Airbus and 777).


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 771 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14360 times:

So what is Thai, BA etc doing wrong? Why do people prefer extending their journey by several hours to use Emirates?

User currently offlinecityairline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14025 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 10):
Btw AUH-BKK is also Etihad's most lucrative route, three 777-300ERs a day each way

I was on a BKK-AUH flight a few months ago with a load of 124 passengers on a 77W (configured with 412 seats). Although one single flight doesn't say much, this load was extremly bad. I spoke to the crew who said that this flight was always quite empty due to bad timing on arrival, meaning no provided connections to Europe.



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3867 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 13741 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 11):

So what is Thai, BA etc doing wrong? Why do people prefer extending their journey by several hours to use Emirates?

Maybe it has to do with prices. If EK is undercutting Thai and BA, then some people won't mind paying less in exchange for a longer trip.


User currently offlineOM617 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12689 times:

Sorry, not directly in the business, but something doesn't add up for me:

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):
FYI in 2012, the market size demand between DXB and BKK itself was 310,000 passengers

310,000 pax per year = 850 per day

6 flights assuming they use only the 330-200, their smallest aircraft, means 1,422 available seats per day. (I'm sure they will actually use larger 777s or even 380s on at least a couple flights, right?)

Are they really willing to sacrifice at least 572 empty seats per day just to have, what, all possible connections to Europe/USA?

Quoting AF185 (Reply 3):
I have my doubts. If the yields are still very low, it won't be much more profitable to fly the B787/A350 than a crammed 10 abreast B77W. It might help reduce the gas bill, but without more premium traffic, European carriers will keep struggling

Norwegian is scheduled to fly 787s to BKK from OSL and ARN, once weekly each. Are you saying you think this is doomed, or is their business model incomparable with the likes of SAS?

Thanks,
OM617


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12327 times:

Quoting cityairline (Reply 12):
I was on a BKK-AUH flight a few months ago with a load of 124 passengers on a 77W (configured with 412 seats). Although one single flight doesn't say much, this load was extremly bad. I spoke to the crew who said that this flight was always quite empty due to bad timing on arrival, meaning no provided connections to Europe.

I travelled MAD-DXB-BKK in April/May ... both BKK flights were 77Ws ... and both were about 60% full only. I am not sure if I got lucky and how can EK sustain so many frequencies?


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4754 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12127 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 15):

I travelled MAD-DXB-BKK in April/May ... both BKK flights were 77Ws

April-May is the ultra low season for both Europe and Asia bound demand hence you experienced such loads.


User currently offlinemcogator From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11632 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 16):
April-May is the ultra low season for both Europe and Asia bound demand hence you experienced such loads.

I made the mistake of going to Thailand in April of last year. It was miserably hot and humid outside, and I've been to Dubai in the summer and live in Florida. My wife and I would wake up at 6am to go walk around, and by noon we had to go back to the hotel because we were exhausted from the relentless heat. We did fly DL from NRT, and the flight was close to, if not 100% full.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11566 times:
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Quoting OM617 (Reply 14):
Are they really willing to sacrifice at least 572 empty seats per day just to have, what, all possible connections to Europe/USA?

What do you mean empty? 50% to 70% of EK's seats will be connections *and* the best profit is with a load factor around 82%. In other words, EK should offer, with rounding 2000 to 3500 seats per day. If anything, EK has room to add more seats to BKK thanks to their connections.

Quoting OM617 (Reply 14):
Norwegian is scheduled to fly 787s to BKK from OSL and ARN, once weekly each.

They should do well. I would expect frequency to rise quickly. I've stated before the #1 threat to the mid-east carriers is P2P. However, twice per week isn't real competition vs. 42 per week... (I'm giving Norwegian credit for connections too.)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineJHwk From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11514 times:

Lots of mideast tourists to BKK. It always amazes me that ~60% of the people doing the health check at Bumrungrad are from the region.

User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11220 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 11):
So what is Thai, BA etc doing wrong? Why do people prefer extending their journey by several hours to use Emirates?

It is some more hours but it isn't much more time... Thing is you're still leaving one evening and arriving the next. Those extra hours don't mean much to most people. The better service (perceived or real) and lower price (perceived or real) means more. There is much more to the equation than time and frequency.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10993 times:
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I'd love to know the O&D points for EK's flights to BKK. I'd bet more are outside of Western Europe than many here assume...

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 11):

So what is Thai, BA etc doing wrong? Why do people prefer extending their journey by several hours to use Emirates?

Take a look at EK's connections. Due to relatively lower frequencies, EK is generally able to offer a more convenient connection for those not originating in a European hub (LHR, FRA, CDG, IST and AMS. MAD has no direct.... Does MUC have a flight?) It takes a large O&D market to fly that far.

Now charters will compete on a few flight a week basis... IMHO, that is part of the competition EK has done well against (thanks to frequency, the vacation may be the length that is best for the visitor). But there are too many O&D points in Europe sans a direct flight to BKK. For that, EK must only compete on the experience and price.

EK will pull travelers from Europe (including SVO, LED, and WAW), the mid-east, and some from Africa too. From Eastern Europe on over, there is some competition from IST, but otherwise they have a 'free ride.' So European customers are a bonus.

Quoting JHwk (Reply 19):
Lots of mideast tourists to BKK.

   And those customers will not be considering a European airline...

Quoting OM617 (Reply 14):
assuming they use only the 330-200, their smallest aircraft

EK has A380s, 77Ws, and 77Es on the route. I don't know all the metal used, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that EK starts with the 77E to BKK and up-gauges from there... See my post #18. EK will fly a HUGE number of connections. The 310,000 pax/year were for those staying in Dubai for at least a night. EK will most certainly have connections.   

For Thailand, this is great news (more tourists). I personally wonder, why haven't I heard about a 2nd daily to HKT? They started service way back in December! Isn't it growing as well as planned.     

http://www.emirates.com/english/abou...s/news_detail.aspx?article=1203470

Ok, being serious, any hints on a 2nd HKT flight? (Sort of on thread...) I expected 2X/day to HKT well before 6X to BKK.   

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineBoysteve From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 935 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10832 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 15):
I travelled MAD-DXB-BKK in April/May ... both BKK flights were 77Ws ... and both were about 60% full only

April is the month with most oppressive heat in Bangkok so not a good month to judge.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24868 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9943 times:

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 1):
It's amazing that EK has that much traffic when all of those routes can be done non-stop by locally based airlines

The problem is that the locally based legacy airlines can't operate routes like BKK profitably due to their cost structures.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9170 times:
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This is one of the a.net threads where I come away learning quite a bit! I must say I enjoy those threads.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
The problem is that the locally based legacy airlines can't operate routes like BKK profitably due to their cost structures.

Its not just that. EK has (IIRC) 33 European ports to pull passengers to transfer to BKK. They also have 18 cities in the mid east and 21 cities in Africa (plus Mauritas and Seychelles potential 'vacation to vacation' travelers) to connect.

How many cities in Europe have the traffic to go to BKK? Ok, I was shocked to count 21 cities in Europe already connected on the airline route mapper... But MAN, NCL, GLA, BHX, DUB, LYN, BCN, LIS, PRG, VCE, GVA, NCE, and HAM all lack direct service to BKK. All of them EK destinations...

If we assume 20 pax/day from each city, that is already 260/day.

In Africa, I was surprised to see on the airline route mapper six routes to BKK (but they are, in general, geographically closer and thus possible with smaller gauge flights). But that leaves another 15 EK could connect. Someone needs to explain to me why ZERO cities in Saudi are directly connected to BKK. I never expected to see that! That leaves 4 cities plus Sana'a in Yemen that EK could feed to BKK without direct competition.

Its not just price competition. EK has dozens of cities to draw feed where they offer the best frequency and fragmentation for connections. Build upon 310,000 O&D pax/year, that allows for this frequency.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 849 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9469 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 24):
Its not just price competition. EK has dozens of cities to draw feed where they offer the best frequency and fragmentation for connections. Build upon 310,000 O&D pax/year, that allows for this frequency.
BKK is the "ultimate" ME3 destination for a variety of reasons. For instance, I now live in Paris (not a secondary city to say something   ) and I will probably book soon some sunny days for the wintertime somewhere. That gives me the typical nearby options (Canary Islands and so forth, in high-season, prices are not cheap) or a trillion connections to Thailand for around 500-600 EUR which is maybe twice the price of a plane ticket those closer places. Thailand is dirty cheap, so you will end spending the same money that going to a closer place with cheaper tickets but more expensive.

Now... booking Paris-Bangkok... you get Thai with one daily A380 (11-12 hours depending on the direction), but they still use B747 with no AVOD in Y until recently to some Euro ports. Air France (to avoid) not even daily. Thai fares are already about 200-300 EUR more expensive than Emirates/Etihad/Oman Air/Qatar/Finnair... (if you are a family of 4, that is already 800-1200 EUR...) which take about 15-16 hours (short layovers with so many connections available)... that's only 4-5 hours more for such a long flight... now even the most important... with Emirates I can leave Paris in the morning, the afternoon or night (I can even leave after work the same day)... and if leaving Paris in the morning, it is not a much better deal for me to arrive at BKK at 6 AM (Thai direct) or 8.30 AM (EK). In Business those differences are even higher, since Middle Eastern carriers are so aggressive discounting upfront cabins, you save 1000-2000 EUR very easily.

Also, a bit off-topic, I think what EK and those ME "global" carriers help is to think out of the box and to adapt themselves to the new way that people is increasingly travelling. Now, you go to Brazil and there are plenty of Chinese or Russian tourists... and you will find Latin American tourists in China or India, yet the traditional carriers do not have direct flights serving those city pairs (of course, if the traffic was big enough, they would do... but you get the idea). For instance, Paris is very well connected with typical vacation spots for French for which I don't have much interest, let's say Martinique. However, you cannot get a direct flight to Manila, Male, Yangon or any Indonesian airport... for which ME3 are basically the only available option (some random European carriers in some cases). And I am talking about Paris, not Newcastle.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 24):
In Africa, I was surprised to see on the airline route mapper six routes to BKK (but they are, in general, geographically closer and thus possible with smaller gauge flights). But that leaves another 15 EK could connect. Someone needs to explain to me why ZERO cities in Saudi are directly connected to BKK. I never expected to see that! That leaves 4 cities plus Sana'a in Yemen that EK could feed to BKK without direct competition.

There is a reason for that...

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1969920,00.html

[Edited 2013-07-10 18:07:28]

User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9173 times:

I did look at the Europe-Asia market in a lot detail last December for a study we published on ch-aviation. We also analyzed the non-stop capacity changes of European traditional legacy carriers to Asia (2007 vs. 2012) to look at the impact of the growth of the AUH, DOH and DXB hubs.

I hope the numbers below will show correctly. But as you can see, the markets where European carriers struggled the most are lower yield destinations South enough to not make the Gulf stop too big of a hassle (BKK, BLR, BOM, CAN, DEL, HKT, HYD, MAA, MNL). Not such a big deal in markets like KUL or SIN where there is more business demand (but as has been said, there needs to be significant O&D demands from the hubs themselves to make these flights work with European cost structures). A lot of capacity growth in China, Japan, South Korea etc. and also SIN making up for the capacity cut to these markets.

Destination Name 2007 2012 +/- in %
BKK Bangkok Suvarnabhumi, Thailand 24'047 17'518 -27.15%
BLR Bangalore, India 6'790 6'085 -10.38%
BOM Mumbai, India 17'863 15'575 -12.81%
CAN Guangzhou, China 4'095 1'004 -75.48%
CKG Chongqing, China 1'076 New
CTU Chengdu, China 654 834 27.52%
DEL Delhi, India 24'372 20'249 -16.92%
HGH Hangzhou, China 981 New
HKG Hong Kong, Hong Kong 21'255 19'268 -9.35%
HKT Phuket, Thailand 969 -100.00%
HND Tokyo Haneda, Japan 1'145 New
HYD Hyderabad, India 3'139 1'145 -63.52%
ICN Seoul Incheon, South Korea 4'690 7'710 64.39%
KIX Osaka Kansai, Japan 9'730 9'506 -2.30%
KUL Kuala Lumpur Int'l, Malaysia 2'242 3'172 41.48%
MAA Chennai, India 4'975 2'874 -42.23%
MLE Malé, Maldives 1'199 1'125 -6.17%
MNL Manila, Philippines 2'289 -100.00%
NGO Nagoya, Japan 2'289 3'457 51.03%
NKG Nanjing, China 741 New
NRT Tokyo Narita, Japan 27'877 27'432 -1.60%
PEK Beijing, China 15'879 19'478 22.67%
PNQ Pune, India 368 New
PVG Shanghai Pu Dong, China 15'943 19'628 23.11%
SGN Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam 1'255 New
SHE Shenyang, China 741 New
SIN Singapore Changi, Singapore 11'032 15'212 37.89%
TPE Taipei Int'l, Taiwan 2'289 New
WUH Wuhan, China 753 New
XMN Xiamen, China 654 New
Grand Total 201'329 201'275 -0.03%



Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9391 times:
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Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
Now... booking Paris-Bangkok...

Tough choice.  
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
Thai fares are already about 200-300 EUR more expensive than Emirates/Etihad/Oman Air/Qatar/Finnair... (if you are a family of 4, that is already 800-1200 EUR...)

Its amazing how pricey vacations are with family...

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
I think what EK and those ME "global" carriers help is to think out of the box and to adapt themselves to the new way that people is increasingly travelling.

I think the way EK helps is they are a numbers run company. If the numbers say add a sixth flight to BKK, they do so. If the numbers say 'slow growth' as they did during the great recession, they do so and emerge with the cash to expand.

You point out examples where EK's hubbing waves benefit them by allowing anywhere to anywhere connections. I'd bet the first China to Brazil tourists were just random... Then I bet EK improved the connection times (not just on those routes). They have a policy of pursuing "20 connections here, 20 there" to make each flight profitable.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
However, you cannot get a direct flight to Manila, Male, Yangon or any Indonesian airport...

After writing my last post, I was on the airline route mapper and I was shocked how CGK (top Indonesian airport) is not connected to Europe! Not even IST. That confused me. And since you mentioned MNL, it shocked me that they now have zero flights to Europe... There is definitely a gap to be filed there by EK.

And as you note, you are in Paris, a very well connected city via CDG.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineAF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8885 times:

Quoting OM617 (Reply 14):
Norwegian is scheduled to fly 787s to BKK from OSL and ARN, once weekly each. Are you saying you think this is doomed, or is their business model incomparable with the likes of SAS?

Their business model is indeed different, with lower operational costs than legacies like SAS or AF. Norwegian has a good chance to make this route successful


User currently offlineHELyes From Finland, joined Oct 2010, 893 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8758 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
The problem is that the locally based legacy airlines can't operate routes like BKK profitably due to their cost structures.

Finnair still serves BKK daily in summer, 2x daily in winter. Carrying some package holidaymakers on scheduled flights helps in winter season.


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8310 times:

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 22):
April is the month with most oppressive heat in Bangkok so not a good month to judge.

I hear ya! It was hot indeed ... and HUMID, my god! Even DAC is nothing compared to BKK!


User currently offlineidealstandard From France, joined Apr 2009, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8140 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 11):
So what is Thai, BA etc doing wrong? Why do people prefer extending their journey by several hours to use Emirates?

By and large, much, much cheaper. People are happy to add a few hours if they are saving a couple of hundred quid. Factor that into a family of four and you've got enough for a better hotel, couple of excursions on your holiday etc. I'm sure there are occasions where there are cheaper carriers of course, but I've experienced Emirates' cheaper rates before:

I flew to AKL in 2010 in J, and I think Emirates were actually £2,000 cheaper than anyone else, I was surprised myself with just how cheap it was (less than £3k return booked 2 weeks in advance).

Mind you I had to fly LHR-DXB-SYD-AKL & AKL-SYD-KUL-DXB-LHR

But still, with a saving like that, what can you say.

IS.


User currently offlinelutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7756 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):
After writing my last post, I was on the airline route mapper and I was shocked how CGK (top Indonesian airport) is not connected to Europe! Not even IST. That confused me

Confuses me as well, as KLM fly to CGK.


User currently offlinecuriousflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 680 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

May I ask why all these people go to Thailand rather than, say, Malaysia or India?

User currently offlinelutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7480 times:

Hmm, that is a bit like asking why people go to France, rather than Russia or Germany...

Thailand has great food, beaches, jungles, culture and the tourism infrastructure is very good, with something for everyone (some of the best 5 star hotels in the world, as well as cheap back packing) It is also very accepting of foreigners. Visas are easy to come by.

Basically Thailand is disney for grown ups...


User currently offline388crazy From Australia, joined Mar 2013, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7242 times:

Quoting idealstandard (Reply 31):

I'm also one of those people, I flew MEL-KUL-DXB-HYD and HYD-DXB-SIN-MEL, It was a saving of several hundred dollars compared to SQ and MH which would have gotten me there roughly 8 hours quicker

-388crazy


User currently onlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2949 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6834 times:

Quoting idealstandard (Reply 31):
AKL-SYD-KUL-DXB-LHR

Hate to nitpick, but this would have been SYD-BKK-DXB. EK doesn't fly SYD-KUL.


User currently offlineOM617 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6811 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
EK has A380s, 77Ws, and 77Es on the route. I don't know all the metal used, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that EK starts with the 77E to BKK and up-gauges from there... See my post #18. EK will fly a HUGE number of connections. The 310,000 pax/year were for those staying in Dubai for at least a night. EK will most certainly have connections.

So, the 310,000 figure does NOT include connections? And that accounts for my "empty seats"? Now it is making sense to me; thanks! Still, wow, that is a lot of passengers! From my neck of the woods, I imagine very few would dream of schlepping to BKK; I think the furthest most would be willing to travel would be to the Caribbean.

Quoting AF185 (Reply 28):
Quoting OM617 (Reply 14):Norwegian is scheduled to fly 787s to BKK from OSL and ARN, once weekly each. Are you saying you think this is doomed, or is their business model incomparable with the likes of SAS?
Their business model is indeed different, with lower operational costs than legacies like SAS or AF. Norwegian has a good chance to make this route successful

That's what I figured. Thank you for confirming that! Hope they do well.

OM617


User currently offlineConcordeLoss From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 24):
omeone needs to explain to me why ZERO cities in Saudi are directly connected to BKK. I never expected to see that!

I believe that Saudi Arabia had some diplomatic problems with Thailand back the nineties where they decided to end any commercial relationships and ban their citizens from travelling to Thailand. Otherwise, it used to be a hot tourist destination.



"You're not as stupid as you look, or sound, or our best test indicates" Burns to Homer
User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6614 times:

A big amount of money in this route is because of cargo and extra baggage specially from and to africa. Everytime I go BKK I hang around after checking in and I see many travellers with huge trolleys and even with 2, 3 or even 4 full of bags and specially to africa, in the my last visit I was doing my check in and in the next counter a guy was sending 600kgs of bags to LOS, and I saw few others with same or even more.

6xday is the same level of LHR and I know that not all are a380 but some are, so for sure BKK is doing great.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6237 times:
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Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
There is a reason for that..

Thank you. I didn't know about that.

Quoting ConcordeLoss (Reply 38):
I believe that Saudi Arabia had some diplomatic problems with Thailand back the nineties

It amazes me how long some of these disputes can go on... They need to read a book called "The Lexus and the Olive Tree." Holding old grudges impeeds growth.

Quoting lutfi (Reply 32):
Confuses me as well, as KLM fly to CGK.

Normality is restored...

Quoting OM617 (Reply 37):
From my neck of the woods, I imagine very few would dream of schlepping to BKK; I think the furthest most would be willing to travel would be to the Caribbean.

From your neck, probably. But I know from LAX, SFO, and SEA quite a few who like to go there. Mostly as my best friend and his wife *love* Thailand and thus influence their social circle.  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinelutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6074 times:

Infamously, a Thai couple working for a Saudi prince stole a fair amount of jewelry in 1989 - "The Blue Diamond Affair"

The Thai police recovered all the stuff, but.. half the jewels returned to Saudi were fake, and the blue diamond wasn't returned. Four Saudi investigators (including 3 diplomats!) sent to Thailand were killed, and the murders never solved, despite it being an open secret in Bangkok who was responsible.

Oddly enough, the Saudi government wasn't impressed.

[Edited 2013-07-12 00:13:40]

[Edited 2013-07-12 00:19:22]

User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6038 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):
And since you mentioned MNL, it shocked me that they now have zero flights to Europe...

EK MNL-DXB not surprisingly has usually 97-98% load factor on the 2 class 777-300ER. It's too low yield for Euro carriers, when I flew EK J, it was 3 booked, 39 upgraded to fill the 42 seat cabin.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlinethaiflyer From Thailand, joined Oct 2007, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

Quoting ConcordeLoss (Reply 38):

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 24):
omeone needs to explain to me why ZERO cities in Saudi are directly connected to BKK. I never expected to see that!

I believe that Saudi Arabia had some diplomatic problems with Thailand back the nineties where they decided to end any commercial relationships and ban their citizens from travelling to Thailand. Otherwise, it used to be a hot tourist destination.

Also there is the fact that the Saudi's are not really loved by the Thai's and they are quiet happy with this frozen relationship.


User currently offlineMAN2SIN2BKK From Thailand, joined Feb 2009, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5812 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 10):
Btw AUH-BKK is also Etihad's most lucrative route, three 777-300ERs a day each way

I have done this return 4 times in the past year (the latest last week) and each flight has been fully loaded; I expect Etihad to introduce an additional flight soon


User currently offlineConcordeLoss From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5671 times:

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 43):
Also there is the fact that the Saudi's are not really loved by the Thai's and they are quiet happy with this frozen relationship.

Any particular reason they're not liked?



"You're not as stupid as you look, or sound, or our best test indicates" Burns to Homer
User currently offlinethaiflyer From Thailand, joined Oct 2007, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

Quoting ConcordeLoss (Reply 45):
Any particular reason they're not liked?

Not that i know of.
But lets say that a lot of Thai are not fond of curtain races. I'm sorry but i don't know how to say it in a political correct way
People from Arabian ( Saudi Arabia ) countries is one of them.
I'm married for over 25 years with my Thai wife and living and working the whole time in Thailand.


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8060 posts, RR: 54
Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5704 times:

Thai-Saudi relations are hilarious.

Quoting ConcordeLoss (Reply 45):
Any particular reason they're not liked?

Are you kidding? Extraordinary episode in which the Thai authorities rescued some stolen jewels and returned them to the Saudis, but in the interim faked some of them and returned the fakes and kept the originals! Add in some murdered Saudi diplomats in Bangkok and yup, there's your answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Diamond_Affair



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinelawair From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 days ago) and read 4445 times:

To continue the whole Thailand-Saudi Arabia discussion, I noticed an article online (from the non-Thai perspective) about how Saudi Arabians are still apparently regularly breaking the law by going to Thailand. The article says the penalties include a "financial penalty and a two-year travel ban" for anyone who breaks the Thai travel ban. It seems that a lot of Saudi Arabians might not be aware of the travel ban either. Those that are aware seem to be pushing for a policy change to allow them to get into Thailand. For the time being, of course, all of these passengers are being funneled onto one of the handful Middle Eastern carriers that fly into BKK.

Article: http://www.menafn.com/1093682049/Saudis-violate-Thailand-travel-ban


User currently offlineCassi From Hungary, joined Apr 2010, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3790 times:

Nevertheless, it seems that the growth of international traffic is actually slowing down at Suwarnabhumi this year. In the first 5 months of the year, international passenger traffic grew by only 5.24% and aircraft movements are down by 1.9%.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...5984/traffic-eases-at-suvarnabhumi


User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 849 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3784 times:

Quoting Cassi (Reply 49):
Nevertheless, it seems that the growth of international traffic is actually slowing down at Suwarnabhumi this year. In the first 5 months of the year, international passenger traffic grew by only 5.24% and aircraft movements are down by 1.9%.

They moved Air Asia (and low-cost airlines in general) to Don Mueang... and Air Asia is huge in Bangkok.


User currently onlineProst From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 915 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (1 year 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Here in Seattle, I ran in to a young couple travelling to BKK on EK via DXB, which is approximately 3000 miles out of the way versus flying via ICN. Ouch.

User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3541 times:

Quoting Prost (Reply 51):

Here in Seattle, I ran in to a young couple travelling to BKK on EK via DXB, which is approximately 3000 miles out of the way versus flying via ICN. Ouch.

My friends in Seattle regularly go SEA-DXB-DAC ... because not many good options to DAC. For them it's about 1500 miles more than other options ... but Emirates is fairly popular for DAC (3x daily 77Ws)


User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3454 times:

I have done BKK-AUH-ORD-DFW as well before when the only options in C via North Asia that were available at a similar price point were AA, UA, DL and JL. Better product on EY in that case for such a long trip, then a couple more hours don't make a huge difference anymore.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24858 posts, RR: 46
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 day ago) and read 3366 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):
After writing my last post, I was on the airline route mapper and I was shocked how CGK (top Indonesian airport) is not connected to Europe! Not even IST.

I guess you did not notice TK serves Jakarta daily.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 55, posted (1 year 22 hours ago) and read 3132 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 54):
I guess you did not notice TK serves Jakarta daily.

I think it was a bug in the software. But still, why aren't the larger secondary airports of Indonesia connected to Europe or at least DXB or some other intermediate hub? Indonesia is an amazingly fast growing region. As fast as IST.   So I'm not surprised the two are connected.

IMHO, while BKK is being served by EK for a good mix of O&D and connecting traffic, I see a *huge* opportunity for EK to Indonesia (further than CDK).

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineCassi From Hungary, joined Apr 2010, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 21 hours ago) and read 3057 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 54):
I guess you did not notice TK serves Jakarta daily.

And KLM as well (KL809/810). Yes, the flight makes a technical stop in KUL.


User currently offlineairpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 943 posts, RR: 26
Reply 57, posted (1 year 21 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

Quoting Cassi (Reply 56):
And KLM as well (KL809/810). Yes, the flight makes a technical stop in KUL.

Technically, not a technical stop. Passengers and cargo come on and off too at KUL  


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4865 posts, RR: 4
Reply 58, posted (1 year 16 hours ago) and read 2667 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 5):
03:05 → 12:25 DXB-BKK Emirates 384
03:40 → 13:00 DXB-BKK Emirates 376
08:50 → 18:10 DXB-BKK Emirates 418
09:40 → 19:15 DXB-BKK Emirates 372
15:20 → 01:40 DXB-BKK Emirates NEW
20:55 → 06:40 DXB-BKK Thai 518
23:00 → 08:20 DXB-BKK Emirates 374

01:35 → 04:40 BKK-DXB Emirates 385
02:40 → 05:45 BKK-DXB Emirates 419
02:40 → 05:45 BKK-DXB Emirates NEW??
09:55 → 13:00 BKK-DXB Emirates 375
15:25 → 18:30 BKK-DXB Emirates 377
16:15 → 19:40 BKK-DXB Thai 517
21:20 → 00:30 BKK-DXB Emirates 373

It's just amazing how EK expand existing routes and top it off utilising high density aircraft. Just wondering how this will slot in with the runway closer at DXB early next year?

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24868 posts, RR: 22
Reply 59, posted (1 year 4 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 52):
Emirates is fairly popular for DAC (3x daily 77Ws)

Current EK schedule DXB-DAC shows 2 77W and 1 A332.


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 723 posts, RR: 1
Reply 60, posted (1 year ago) and read 1953 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 59):
Current EK schedule DXB-DAC shows 2 77W and 1 A332.

you are probably right ... I know they have 3x flights and I always got 77Ws, I assumed the rest  

that is a HUGE % of DAC volumes ... with so little reliable connections towards the west.


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