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2013 DOT Small Community Air Service Grants  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24710 posts, RR: 46
Posted (1 year 13 hours ago) and read 13334 times:

Well that time of the year again, when the DOT seeks to hand out money as part of the Small Community Air Development (SCASD) program.

SCASD is meant to help communities enhance air transportation by providing temporary financial support.

Grants can be utilized to attract new air-service by establishing revenue guarantees, cost offsets, or marketing support. Additionally grant funding can be utilized to help retain or expand current service, plus for various airport facility upgrades in order to make them more attractive for air service providers.

For this years grants, due to the federal budget sequester the available award pool funding was reduced to $11.5 million.

As in past years, the selection criteria the DOT shall consider includes:

o Air fares are higher than the national average
o The community provide a portion of the cost of the activity from local sources other than airport revenue
o Facilitate new or improved air carrier service to the public
o Provide benefits to a broad segment of the traveling public, whose access to the national air transportation system is limited
o Grant will be used in a timely manner.

Applications are due to the DOT by July 26th.


I'll post application summaries in this thread as they become available.


OST-2013-0120


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
123 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 12 hours ago) and read 13159 times:

Kill this program. Let the market place decide. We have spent enough tax money proping up commercial flying operations. If a town/city has the 'business" to support the flying, great, a company will serve the market. If not, drive or charter a 135 operator.


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1999 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 hours ago) and read 13129 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program.

Then kill every other grant program. I don't see how this is different than any other grant program out there. EAS is a different story.

I would like to know...how much money actually gets used? Not awarded, but used? I know TOL has applied for a couple of them and the Port has failed twice now to use the grant.


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 hours ago) and read 13115 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program. Let the market place decide.

While there are failures, there are also quite a few successes, where sustained commercial service continues beyond the grant. (I don't have statistics on what the success rate is, it would be interesting to know. I've heard it's as much as half.) In those cases of success beyond the grant, it worked exactly how it's supposed to. I don't think 100% success should be expected; indeed, this is government stepping in to assist with risk where airlines and communities are unable to assume that initial risk. Government incubation and other assistance in commercial ventures happens everywhere: pharmaceuticals, petroleum industry, automotive industry, aerospace (duh!), high tech. Some work, some don't. I guess it depends on one's view of the role of government and where one can draw that line.

-Rampart


User currently offlineplanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 hours ago) and read 12980 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program. Let the market place decide. We have spent enough tax money proping up commercial flying operations. If a town/city has the 'business" to support the flying, great, a company will serve the market. If not, drive or charter a 135 operator.

I've said this many times in the past, but the United States is a country that is bound and determined to ensure that rural communities get more resources than they pay in for - that's why every state gets two senators no matter their population (among other things). If we want to maintain the rural lifestyle (which we do, because that's "real America," supposedly), it comes at a cost - one of which is that we pay a lot more to ensure air service to very small communities.

If the U.S. really was based on a free market economy, larger and larger cities would absolutely have all of the resources and very little would be left for the sticks. That's not how it works though.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineytib From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 567 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 hours ago) and read 12955 times:

The SCASD application process is what the Boyd Group refers to as Christmas in July

User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 hours ago) and read 12883 times:
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I have an idea, just a thought.
How about wait until you have the proposals from the various cities and then post the thread.
This would direct conversation more directly to the proposals than the beaten to death 'kill the program, end all subsidies, etc' rhetoric that always shows up on here. Just a thought.

As for me personally, I like to see this program more so than EAS, since the actual locations have to somewhat wrangle over the money as opposed to let airlines get $$ to fly one person once a week to Dipstick,WV or wherever. I believe that the SCASD is a better use of the money. Maybe switch from EAS set up to same $$ being dispersed via SCASD outlet.

Oh, and I want $3,000,000 to help entice and market a flight between Pasco,WA and Richland,WA. Much like the Tidewater area of VA, the I-182 bridge over the Columbia River can sometimes have as many as 25 cars on it simultaneously! If one is in Richland, this can add 2 minutes to the drive to Tri-Cities Airport!  

Have a nice day, everyone!



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineRJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 hours ago) and read 12873 times:

Quoting ytib (Reply 5):
The SCASD application process is what the Boyd Group refers to as Christmas in July

...and his firm is the reindeer in front of the sleigh!


User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3791 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 hours ago) and read 12856 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program. Let the market place decide. We have spent enough tax money proping up commercial flying operations. If a town/city has the 'business" to support the flying, great, a company will serve the market. If not, drive or charter a 135 operator.

I would agree with you if the airlines were more open to trying things that they don't consider a 100000% sure thing and if they were 100% accurate at determining which markets need served and which dont. Because these decisions are all made, at the end of the day, by humans this isn't the case. There are plenty of routes out there that started because of the SCASD program that ended up being great for the airline, the airports involved, and subsequently the economies of both cities involved. It's safe to say that some of these wouldn't have ever happened without the program.

If you're from a big city then you probably don't see air service through the same eyes as someone from a smaller town that isn't awarded the same opportunities by the airlines. SCASD is the only way a CRW-IAH route would have ever happened, and that's apparently been good for everyone involved.


But to each his own opinion.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24710 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 12441 times:

I think a valid debate over SCASD is the rather slim long term out comes it produces.

Yes there are certainly successes, and some markets have today enjoy air service thanks the incubator environment SCASD produces, however I can only remember about a handful of such cases out of maybe 100 awards the last 5-years.

Way too often once the money dries up (maximum 3-year term on SCASD grants), the experiment goes away and ends up having looked just like an EAS route where the government directly funded for the flying during the period.

In an industry where there are fewer and fewer potential airlines, and where there is a tidal shift away from smaller planes and communities anyhow, I am not sure SCASD is doing much except being a small sand castle on a beach next to a big ocean.

So with limited federal dollars is SCASD really something that produces a good return for the nation?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3090 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 12440 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program.

Isn't Great Lakes Aviation totally dependent on this program. If the program went away not that it should or shouldn't wouldn't they actually have to approach markets and offer service.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24710 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 12409 times:

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 10):
Isn't Great Lakes Aviation totally dependent on this program. If the program went away not that it should or shouldn't wouldn't they actually have to approach markets and offer service.

Great Lakes lives on the Essential Air Service (EAS) program, a much larger and more expensive federal program.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3702 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (12 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12285 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Yes there are certainly successes, and some markets have today enjoy air service thanks the incubator environment SCASD produces, however I can only remember about a handful of such cases out of maybe 100 awards the last 5-years.

Some airports have used their SCASD grants for non-air service purposes. FWA is one airport that thought outside the box and used a SCASD grant to equip the terminal with an AirIT CUTE system, which has led to more gate flexibility and easier handling of diversions from the likes of ORD and DTW. When DTW gets closed for weather and DL needs a diversion point, they can come to FWA and park at any open gate - same goes for ORD and AA/UA. Even G4 has used FWA as a diversion point after the CUTE system was installed.

That's not to say that FWA has used SCASD for air service; they got one SCASD grant for C8 (ATA Connection) to MDW. The route went away when C8 went away, but it was successful when it ran (FWA even bought and bulldozed a hotel to expand airport parking). More importantly, C8 proved that FWA could support an LCC (and they got another one two years later in the form of G4, which came thanks to airport authority incentives and not SCASD).

[Edited 2013-07-11 09:57:08]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6997 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (12 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12210 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program. Let the market place decide.
Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 2):
Then kill every other grant program. I don't see how this is different than any other grant program out there. EAS is a different story.
Quoting ytib (Reply 5):
The SCASD application process is what the Boyd Group refers to as Christmas in July

EAS should be eliminated in every market where there is not another served airport within 150-200 miles by road. SCASD is just a perversion of the free market system. If a community wants to spend its own money to support better air service for economic development that is fine, but to take federal money to encourage airlines to move planes from one place to another is the height of waste. At the federal level it produces no net gain in economic activity and thus should not be a federal program.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):

I think a valid debate over SCASD is the rather slim long term out comes it produces.

The fact that most SCASD grants go unused is indication of the flimsy viability of the whole concept and the award process.

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 10):
Isn't Great Lakes Aviation totally dependent on this program.

The EAS guys are really really good at drying up a market so they don't have to carry any pesky passengers so that they can just fly more or less empty planes around with the taxpayer picking up the tab.


User currently offlinejamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 540 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12138 times:

Quoting planespotting (Reply 4):
If the U.S. really was based on a free market economy, larger and larger cities would absolutely have all of the resources and very little would be left for the sticks. That's not how it works though.

If the U.S. really was a free market economy, then there would be no airports owned or operated by cities or counties. Compare your airport system with those over here in the UK, where aside from a few remote airports in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland, every airport is in private ownership.

Kind of makes me chuckle to hear the political right laying into Amtrak every year (a public transport system providing essential service to many remote communities that has to fight for every dollar of its funding every single year) while overlooking the amount of tax payers dollars poured into airport infrastructure.

Just my two pence, which works out about 3 cents these days   


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24710 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11659 times:

Mike Boyd has a short video about the growing difficulties in developing viable SCASD proposals in an environment with ever fewer airlines, and the difficult operating economics of smaller RJs.

http://aviationplanning.com/insightinthree.phtml

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11580 times:

Rather than engage a political discussion about spending (better suited for a political discussion board) let's get back to the topic at hand.

What are some potential cities who may apply for grants? Are there rejected grantees that may try again this year? How did grants last year pan out for those cities?


User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11563 times:

Do you think you could see something like a proposal to find a suitor for a BLI midwest/east coast route? With the recent success in BLI for AS, F9 and G4, it seems like the next step would be to push for something eastward.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11471 times:

Quoting jamesontheroad (Reply 14):
If the U.S. really was a free market economy, then there would be no airports owned or operated by cities or counties.

Unless you believe that a free market economy requires that the government own nothing (hardly a defensible position, and certainly not the case in the United Kingdom), what's wrong with government ownership of airports?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1560 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11393 times:

I'm wondering if we're going to see more PenAir grants out of BOS? I've heard good things about their PBG services...


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24710 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11335 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 16):
How did grants last year pan out for those cities?

Lets take a look at the 2012 awards. I'll work off the summary that point2point posted in last years thread.


o Arcata-Eureka, California AVC New service, $370K, $750K, DEN, UA
  

o Asheville, North Carolina AVL New service, $400K,$300K, DEN, F9
  

o Bentonville/Northwest Arkansas XNA seek lower cost carrier, $975K,$1M, tbd, tbd
 

o Bloomington-Normal, Illinois BMI New service, $200K,$500K, NYC/DCA, tbd
  

o Burlington, Vermont BTV New service/marketing, $180K, $450K, ATL/CLT, DL/US
 

o Butte, Montana BTM Retension, $25K,$150K, SLC, DL
 

o Casper, Wyoming CPR Retain service, $70K, $100K, all current service at CPR , DEN/SLC/LAS, UA/DL/G4
 

o Champaign-Urbana, Illinois CMI New service, $425K,$6004K, IAD, UA
  

o Consortium of Block Island, Rhode Island and Culebra, Puerto Rico $250K, $595K, Cape Air
  

o Corpus Christi, Texas CRP Retension/marketing, $0, $340K, DFW/IAH/HOU, UA/AA/WN
 

o Kalispell, Montana FCA New service, $102K,$200K, LAX, G4
  but G4 had to drop service when LAX terminal issues cropped up.

o Los Alamos, New Mexico LAM New service, $68K, $272K, ABQ, New Mexico Airlines
 

o Medford, Oregon MFR Marketing/advertising, $20K, $150K, tbd, tbd
 

o Newport News, Virginia PHF Replacement, $1.6M, $2M, NYC/BOS, to attracted carrier, tbd
  

o Ogden, Utah OGD New service, $300K,$400K, AZA, G4
 

o Pendleton, Oregon PDT Retension/marketing, $5K, $50K, PDX, K5
 

o Punta Gorda, Florida PGD Marketing/advertising, $60K, $140K, tbd, tbd
 

o Redmond, Oregon RDM Resetablish lost service, $735K, $500K, SoCal, AA/UA/DL
 

o Rochester, Minnesota RST New service, $225K, $500K, DEN, F9
  

o Santa Maria, California SMX New service, $240K, $490K, DEN, UA
  

o Sarasota-Bradenton, Florida SRQ New service westbound/marketing, $315K, $500K, IAH/DFW/DEN, tbd
  

o Sioux City, Iowa SUX Marketing/advertising, $80K, $160K, ORD, AA
 

o Springfield, Illinois SPI New service, $170K, $250K, Florida/MYR/PHX/LAS, G4
 

o St. Augustine, Florida SGJ New service/marketing, $250K, $250K, tbd, G4/Silver Air
  

o St. George, Utah SGU New service, $300K, $550K, DEN, UA
 

o Telluride, Colorado TEX New service westward/marketing, $200K, $500K, West Coast, AS/UA
  

o Topeka, Kansas FOE New service, $1M, $1M, ORD, UA
  

o Tupelo, Mississippi TUP New service/replace, $25K, $75K, ATL, Silver Air
 

o Twin Falls, Idaho TWF Retain service, $85K, $550K, SLC, DL
 

o Walla Walla, Washington ALW Retain service/marketing, $59K, $250K, SEA, AS
 

o Williamsport, Pennsylvania IPT New service, $500K, $550K, IAD, UA
  

o Youngstown, Ohio YNG Reestablish service, $420K, $780K, IAD/ORD/DTW, UA/tbd
  

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (11 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10975 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
Consortium of Block Island, Rhode Island and Culebra, Puerto Rico $250K, $595K, Cape Air
  

Some months ago I asked 9K about the time it was taking to get service to BID and the PR locale announced. They responded that they were having difficulty in obtaining the appropriate a/c (Islander as I had read in proposal IIRC) that they would put it off to 2014.
Somehow I don't think this will come to fruitin, as much as I'd like to fly a BNI from PVD instead of going to Westerly,RI.
However, I also do not agree that 9K should get a grant when New England Airlines has been serving BID form Westerly for over 40 years.
Anyway...............



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24710 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10585 times:

I've heard so far some cities that are applying include:

Tyler TX
Del Rio TX
Mobile AL
White Sands NM
Charleston WV
Gunnison CO
Klamath Falls OR.

Will await DOT to start posting the applications.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 899 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10545 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):

I've heard so far some cities that are applying include:

Tyler TX
Del Rio TX


I wonder if UA could re-launch Del Rio at some point.



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7114 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10536 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
Charleston WV

Now this is a bit of an eye raiser for me. CRW does need some service if they want to revitalize their economy, but I'm not sure who they can attract. the loss of the DL flight to CVG reportedly had a lot of negative impact.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
25 AVLAirlineFreq : Others with more intimate knowledge of the market can provide more insight, but my first guess was they'd like to replace the NYC service they lost w
26 pvd757 : SJU-CPX and PVD-BID will happen. I suspect early 2014 but it is contingent on 9K getting aircraft for those short runways.
27 LAXintl : Del Rio grant proposal is supposed to be for service to DFW with AA.
28 crj900lr : Near the end before going out of business, Air Midwest flew a lot of EAS/SCASD routes. Some of them were: DFW-JBR PIT-LNS DFW-HOT MCI-to various citi
29 steeler83 : Youngstown should try and rebuild its economy, thus potentially generating more demand for air travel. Right now, it's right smack in between two lar
30 crj900lr : Why, when they already have service to PHL on US?
31 steeler83 : Do you suppose the new AA will hold onto it post-merger? If so, then what would UA bring to the table beside IAD? Then again, you'd be giving IPT opt
32 YNGguins : Youngstown is smack dab right in the middle of the Utica Shale boom sweeping Northeast Ohio. Over $2 billion has been invested thus far, well before
33 LAXintl : DOT is slow uploading the applications to their website, however I understand the following cities have also applied. Oxnard, CA Lawton, OK Duluth, MN
34 ouboy79 : Grant is for American to DFW. Looks like this one is to retain service on AA.
35 LAXdude1023 : Given the success AA has had connecting midwestern college towns to DFW, I think this would probably work even without a subsidy. I would have though
36 mhkansan : MHK is mostly military traffic, as is LAW, so I'm unsure if SWO will/ would see the same result. I'm not sure what the market for air travel is like
37 southsky : I'm not surprised that MOB applied, but I'm unsure what they applied for... maybe DC service or NY service?
38 FWAERJ : DL couldn't make LAW-ATL work. That said, I can see where LAW struggles with the proximity to OKC and WN's dominance there. OKC is a relatively short
39 ouboy79 : LAW-ATL really didn't make much sense, but it was free grant money for DL to use. LAW-DFW has been ongoing for years now, but I think it is symptomat
40 LAXintl : DOT is finally posting the apps. Here are the first lot of submissions. Bismarck, ND Bismark Airport seeks $500,000 in US DOT grant funding matched wi
41 LAXintl : Some more for tonight >>> Appleton, WI Outagamie County Regional Airport seeks $287,000 in federal grant funds supplemented with $185,000 in
42 FWAERJ : I could see this one coming - and not just because the AA/US merger will open up US hubs to FWA with minimal investment thanks to Eagle's strong exis
43 Post contains images ouboy79 : 2 daily vs. 5 daily via DTW isn't really going to trump existing service. However, a 2nd eastern hub is good for any city. The first two make sense,
44 bjorn14 : Don't see why we should be supporting a privare business with these grants-
45 Cubsrule : Why should all the money go to the government or quasi-government entities that run most airports?
46 FlyingSicilian : I'd say this is one of the more realistic ones of the bunch. UA got a lot of gov't rate tickets on the route, but I'm told by some UA shirts it was p
47 PHX787 : According to my grandparents, who used to frequent Branson, that market is on its way out. 90% of tourists are reportedly seniors riding busses into
48 ouboy79 : I just think Branson is too regional of a destination. When I lived back north, you never really thought of Branson as a vacation spot. It isn't unti
49 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Good luck to CRW; I'm always sorry to see them struggling. I thought thanks to shale drilling West Virginia's economy was improving, maybe the downtur
50 LAXintl : Some more for this AM. Greenville, NC Pitt County and City of Greenville seeks $500,000 in federal grant funding supported with $600,000 in local cash
51 kcrwflyer : The airport isn't struggling, we just don't have any low fare leisure flying outside of NK to Myrtle. I guess things are just how they were before 20
52 PSU.DTW.SCE : That is a common issue at many airports. The community often is very critical of their local airport and officials because they haven't been able to
53 MTNWEST1979 : LOL, I feel there was really not much of a market to start with. The traveller to Branson has and will be the people you describe. I feel that the ne
54 kcrwflyer : It's funny how that works. It would seem like those are "easy ones" and flights to DFW and IAH would be far off dreams. Alas, it seems to be the othe
55 LAXintl : More for this afternoon.. Fayette, PA Fayette County Airport Authority seeks $75,000 grant amount to support furtherance of masterplan studies includi
56 CIDFlyer : this would totally be a waste of money of it was granted, Concord is part of the CLT metro area, which is home to the one the worlds largest airline
57 kcrwflyer : I actually think JQF is one of the most interesting SCASD grants I've seen in a long time. I think their location could give them a huge upside for a
58 ytib : Some of these applications submitted are frankly quite laughable with the small percentages of money the local cities are offering with the grant mone
59 LAXintl : SCASD only requires a 10-20% community match depending on scope of program. However DOT is allowed to consider how broad community participation, and
60 kcrwflyer : Walk me through how a G4 flight brings less revenue to an airport than any other airlines flight.
61 ytib : One way traffic, as a majority of the G4 flights bring residents from their home location to a destination (i.e. Florida), thus not bringing in touri
62 Post contains images point2point : In the past 3 or 4 years of these SCASD grants, it remember that a good amount of them involved DEN and then mostly F9 and then maybe UA. So far this
63 CIDFlyer : this I could see happening. Seems like AA via DFW has seen alot of success lately with these kind of flights
64 MTNWEST1979 : That is for sure. With SGF's new terminal, they could have really gained more than they have now IMO.
65 AVLAirlineFreq : I find the whole idea of a federal grant to bring in G4 kinda odd. If you're going to go to the trouble of getting a grant, wouldn't you want to use
66 kcrwflyer : What does that have to do with the airport? You said they don't bring much revenue to the airport. To the airport, a passenger is a passenger. G4 pas
67 PSU.DTW.SCE : Small airports with limited or no air service, and who in reality of little hope of attracting a network airline often try to lure discount carriers l
68 enilria : Is that BKG or SGF? As a private airport is BKG eligible? Should they be?
69 LAXintl : More for this AM... Macon, GA City of Macon seek $556,800 in grant award matched with $104,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to aid in build
70 Post contains images PHX787 : Good evening from Tokyo I hope this goes through. They have a strong market that's only going to get stronger with Airbus opening up a plant there.
71 AVLAirlineFreq : I find these applications for SCASD grants to help support EAS flying...interesting.
72 FATFlyer : That is a big reason for a smaller airport with no or very limited current service to pursue G4. * Airports with fewer than 10,000 annual enplanement
73 Post contains links enilria : I think this whole program is questionable, but isn't giving money that benefits a private airport even another level of questionable? Chamber of Com
74 LAXintl : A few more for the afternoon. Montgomery, AL Montgomery Regional Airport applies for $700,000 in grant monies combined with $140,000 in local cash and
75 bjorn14 : IMHO, SEA seems a more logical cxing point If G4 can't make a go of it who can? I think he was talking more economic development wise (tourism) than
76 FlyPNS1 : But for almost all the airports involved, most of the money is given to private entities anyway...whether they be airlines, marketing firms, consulta
77 MTNWEST1979 : Well G4 stated reason for leaving was 'airport safety' due to no tower there. Nothing about not making $$ there. IIRC.
78 LAXintl : DOT pays for MCN-ATL portion. Silver uses the Orlando leg to move aircraft between its Florida and Atlanta operations. Community got a bonus flight o
79 DiamondFlyer : To me, these are the kinds of things that should be supported. Granted, it is EAS, but the fact that they've got a system that will allow you to book
80 HPRamper : If those flights were operating in the Alaska network, maybe....but they are still UAX as far as I know. In any case I doubt there is much if any O&a
81 LAXintl : This evenings lot. More on Monday. Salmon, ID Lemhi County applies for grant funds of $675,000 with additional $270,500 in local cash and in-kind cont
82 AVLAirlineFreq : Hmmm. What's the definition of "small community"? RIC was ranked 69th in the US in enplanements last year.
83 Post contains links LAXintl : Airport requesting funding cannot be considered larger than a "small air hub". Basically as long as you are not a medium or large hub per DOT you are
84 AVLAirlineFreq : Thanks. Didn't know that.
85 LAXintl : A little slow in posting this AM... Lake Cumberland, KY Pulaski County request $1,000,000 in grant monies supplemented of $845,000 in local cash and i
86 bjorn14 : What is the airport served out of this region ?
87 AVLAirlineFreq : SME, Somerset, or Lake Cumberland Regional.
88 starrion : Have a looksee at our budget deficit. Almost everyone gets more than they put in. The constitution was set up specifically with provisions to prevent
89 bjorn14 : I find it interesting that their $3MM FAA funded pax terminal was converted to an FBO 2 yrs ago after 3 yrs of use.[Edited 2013-08-12 11:44:07]
90 LAXintl : A few more.. Sprinfield, MO City of Springfield applies for $450,000 in grant funding matched with $216,000 in local cash and in-king contributions to
91 bjorn14 : This another basket of horse apples in the program. Any airport should start out with t-props under 50 seats. Jets are not essential with exceptions.
92 fjnovak1 : Can someone tell me why the ATL spoke services with Silver cannot be under the DL Connection banner? Since Silver works with UA in IAD, why could they
93 kcrwflyer : That airport is asking for a grant to help support DFW service on AA. Which prop in the AA fleet do you advise they use?
94 AVLAirlineFreq : Interesting that both Branson and Springfield, MO have applied for grants.
95 slcdeltarumd11 : I would think DL to SLC or WN/UA to DEN would probably jump on this offer. I wonder if the airport has been in talks with any of these airlines. Woul
96 DiamondFlyer : With what airplane and airline? There simply aren't many turboprops left in the US that aren't already tied up somewhere. -DiamondFlyer
97 bjorn14 : SWO is saying they want AA and a E45. Last I looked MQ had plenty of ATRs left.
98 Mah4546 : American Eagle is 100% jet.
99 kcrwflyer : You must have not looked recently. The ATR fleet is parked.
100 ouboy79 : The 1990s are calling and want their fleet lists back. :-P
101 LAXintl : The lot for this evening. Wichita, KS City of Wichita seeks $500,000 in grant award with additional $30,000 in local in-kind contributions to promote
102 Post contains images AVLAirlineFreq : So this is ironic...virtually every airport on this list every year wants to attract a low fare carrier and/or new service, and would kill to get WN.
103 LAXintl : ICT has a long and creative history using monies including SCASD grants to support flying. As I recall that's how they got AirTran to start with. I wo
104 GentFromAlaska : And just think a few months ago DOT was within a month or two of closing 150 or more secondary ATC towers citing the the lack of funding under the fed
105 PHX787 : I wonder though if this is successful, MEM or CVG would jump on board....
106 doug_Or : UAL has a larger operation in SEA, but aside from Tokyo no additional destinations. SEA is a significantly longer flight and PDX has a number of busi
107 freakyrat : Quoting pointtopoint "The MFE section states that airport officials have talked with both F9 and UA. In the past, it's been that F9 has been repeatedl
108 LAXintl : Neither airport qualifies for SCASD per DOT definition. See Reply 83.
109 GentFromAlaska : Does the airport have to be FAR (Federal Air Regs) Part 139 certified to apply for SCASD grant funding? SCASD to my understanding can be used in other
110 MasseyBrown : ICT's proposal seems perfectly reasonable, but I wonder if it's competitive, in that it doesn't propose any new service. Seems like the DoT might lea
111 LAXintl : Due to sequester the program was already reduced by about 20% this year. But I don't see the point dropping it as it both Congressionally popular and
112 GentFromAlaska : My post was considering the sequester across the entire government when compared to other programs and to a certain extent internal programs within D
113 Post contains links freakyrat : SBN's June Traffic figures are in and guess what folks F9 was operating very full flights. SBN-DEN was operating at a 98% load factor with an average
114 kcrwflyer : Where did they go and what did they pay?
115 freakyrat : Quoting kcrwflyer "Where did they go and what did they pay?" That we do not know, but the CASM for the A319 has been discussed on here and F9 if they
116 LAXintl : DOT is awfully slow posting stuff this year. Here are a few more Montrose, CO Montrose Regional Airport request $750,000 in grant award combined with
117 FWAERJ : Not the first time. CAK did the same thing after WN said that they were keeping the FL station there. (Their request didn't make it.)
118 PHX787 : I love this idea but they should also try to get WN or F9 to MDW and DEN respectively. That region is poorly served out of SAV, and SAV is a wonderfu
119 GentFromAlaska : Spot on; it closely mirrors the same criteria federal highway and federal federal railroad. Nashville for example is seeking millions in a roughly 80
120 doug_Or : Exactly. I'm not sure I completely agree with the whole SCASD program, but initiatives to try and get non-daily discount flights to tourist destinati
121 bjorn14 : The ski areas closest to MTJ are Telluride and Crested Butte and they have their own airports. As much as love the Western Slope this is no dice for
122 slcdeltarumd11 : The Telluride airport is very very small and in a tough location. Montrose really is the closest airport to Telluride unless you have a private jet.
123 LAXintl : For whatever reason Fort Collins withdrew its application.
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