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2013 DOT Small Community Air Service Grants  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13773 times:

Well that time of the year again, when the DOT seeks to hand out money as part of the Small Community Air Development (SCASD) program.

SCASD is meant to help communities enhance air transportation by providing temporary financial support.

Grants can be utilized to attract new air-service by establishing revenue guarantees, cost offsets, or marketing support. Additionally grant funding can be utilized to help retain or expand current service, plus for various airport facility upgrades in order to make them more attractive for air service providers.

For this years grants, due to the federal budget sequester the available award pool funding was reduced to $11.5 million.

As in past years, the selection criteria the DOT shall consider includes:

o Air fares are higher than the national average
o The community provide a portion of the cost of the activity from local sources other than airport revenue
o Facilitate new or improved air carrier service to the public
o Provide benefits to a broad segment of the traveling public, whose access to the national air transportation system is limited
o Grant will be used in a timely manner.

Applications are due to the DOT by July 26th.


I'll post application summaries in this thread as they become available.


OST-2013-0120


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
123 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13598 times:

Kill this program. Let the market place decide. We have spent enough tax money proping up commercial flying operations. If a town/city has the 'business" to support the flying, great, a company will serve the market. If not, drive or charter a 135 operator.


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2005 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13568 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program.

Then kill every other grant program. I don't see how this is different than any other grant program out there. EAS is a different story.

I would like to know...how much money actually gets used? Not awarded, but used? I know TOL has applied for a couple of them and the Port has failed twice now to use the grant.


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3141 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13554 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program. Let the market place decide.

While there are failures, there are also quite a few successes, where sustained commercial service continues beyond the grant. (I don't have statistics on what the success rate is, it would be interesting to know. I've heard it's as much as half.) In those cases of success beyond the grant, it worked exactly how it's supposed to. I don't think 100% success should be expected; indeed, this is government stepping in to assist with risk where airlines and communities are unable to assume that initial risk. Government incubation and other assistance in commercial ventures happens everywhere: pharmaceuticals, petroleum industry, automotive industry, aerospace (duh!), high tech. Some work, some don't. I guess it depends on one's view of the role of government and where one can draw that line.

-Rampart


User currently offlineplanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13419 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program. Let the market place decide. We have spent enough tax money proping up commercial flying operations. If a town/city has the 'business" to support the flying, great, a company will serve the market. If not, drive or charter a 135 operator.

I've said this many times in the past, but the United States is a country that is bound and determined to ensure that rural communities get more resources than they pay in for - that's why every state gets two senators no matter their population (among other things). If we want to maintain the rural lifestyle (which we do, because that's "real America," supposedly), it comes at a cost - one of which is that we pay a lot more to ensure air service to very small communities.

If the U.S. really was based on a free market economy, larger and larger cities would absolutely have all of the resources and very little would be left for the sticks. That's not how it works though.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineytib From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 575 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13394 times:

The SCASD application process is what the Boyd Group refers to as Christmas in July

User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2464 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13322 times:
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I have an idea, just a thought.
How about wait until you have the proposals from the various cities and then post the thread.
This would direct conversation more directly to the proposals than the beaten to death 'kill the program, end all subsidies, etc' rhetoric that always shows up on here. Just a thought.

As for me personally, I like to see this program more so than EAS, since the actual locations have to somewhat wrangle over the money as opposed to let airlines get $$ to fly one person once a week to Dipstick,WV or wherever. I believe that the SCASD is a better use of the money. Maybe switch from EAS set up to same $$ being dispersed via SCASD outlet.

Oh, and I want $3,000,000 to help entice and market a flight between Pasco,WA and Richland,WA. Much like the Tidewater area of VA, the I-182 bridge over the Columbia River can sometimes have as many as 25 cars on it simultaneously! If one is in Richland, this can add 2 minutes to the drive to Tri-Cities Airport!  

Have a nice day, everyone!



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineRJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13312 times:

Quoting ytib (Reply 5):
The SCASD application process is what the Boyd Group refers to as Christmas in July

...and his firm is the reindeer in front of the sleigh!


User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13295 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program. Let the market place decide. We have spent enough tax money proping up commercial flying operations. If a town/city has the 'business" to support the flying, great, a company will serve the market. If not, drive or charter a 135 operator.

I would agree with you if the airlines were more open to trying things that they don't consider a 100000% sure thing and if they were 100% accurate at determining which markets need served and which dont. Because these decisions are all made, at the end of the day, by humans this isn't the case. There are plenty of routes out there that started because of the SCASD program that ended up being great for the airline, the airports involved, and subsequently the economies of both cities involved. It's safe to say that some of these wouldn't have ever happened without the program.

If you're from a big city then you probably don't see air service through the same eyes as someone from a smaller town that isn't awarded the same opportunities by the airlines. SCASD is the only way a CRW-IAH route would have ever happened, and that's apparently been good for everyone involved.


But to each his own opinion.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12880 times:

I think a valid debate over SCASD is the rather slim long term out comes it produces.

Yes there are certainly successes, and some markets have today enjoy air service thanks the incubator environment SCASD produces, however I can only remember about a handful of such cases out of maybe 100 awards the last 5-years.

Way too often once the money dries up (maximum 3-year term on SCASD grants), the experiment goes away and ends up having looked just like an EAS route where the government directly funded for the flying during the period.

In an industry where there are fewer and fewer potential airlines, and where there is a tidal shift away from smaller planes and communities anyhow, I am not sure SCASD is doing much except being a small sand castle on a beach next to a big ocean.

So with limited federal dollars is SCASD really something that produces a good return for the nation?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3108 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12879 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program.

Isn't Great Lakes Aviation totally dependent on this program. If the program went away not that it should or shouldn't wouldn't they actually have to approach markets and offer service.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12848 times:

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 10):
Isn't Great Lakes Aviation totally dependent on this program. If the program went away not that it should or shouldn't wouldn't they actually have to approach markets and offer service.

Great Lakes lives on the Essential Air Service (EAS) program, a much larger and more expensive federal program.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12724 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Yes there are certainly successes, and some markets have today enjoy air service thanks the incubator environment SCASD produces, however I can only remember about a handful of such cases out of maybe 100 awards the last 5-years.

Some airports have used their SCASD grants for non-air service purposes. FWA is one airport that thought outside the box and used a SCASD grant to equip the terminal with an AirIT CUTE system, which has led to more gate flexibility and easier handling of diversions from the likes of ORD and DTW. When DTW gets closed for weather and DL needs a diversion point, they can come to FWA and park at any open gate - same goes for ORD and AA/UA. Even G4 has used FWA as a diversion point after the CUTE system was installed.

That's not to say that FWA has used SCASD for air service; they got one SCASD grant for C8 (ATA Connection) to MDW. The route went away when C8 went away, but it was successful when it ran (FWA even bought and bulldozed a hotel to expand airport parking). More importantly, C8 proved that FWA could support an LCC (and they got another one two years later in the form of G4, which came thanks to airport authority incentives and not SCASD).

[Edited 2013-07-11 09:57:08]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7224 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12649 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
Kill this program. Let the market place decide.
Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 2):
Then kill every other grant program. I don't see how this is different than any other grant program out there. EAS is a different story.
Quoting ytib (Reply 5):
The SCASD application process is what the Boyd Group refers to as Christmas in July

EAS should be eliminated in every market where there is not another served airport within 150-200 miles by road. SCASD is just a perversion of the free market system. If a community wants to spend its own money to support better air service for economic development that is fine, but to take federal money to encourage airlines to move planes from one place to another is the height of waste. At the federal level it produces no net gain in economic activity and thus should not be a federal program.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):

I think a valid debate over SCASD is the rather slim long term out comes it produces.

The fact that most SCASD grants go unused is indication of the flimsy viability of the whole concept and the award process.

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 10):
Isn't Great Lakes Aviation totally dependent on this program.

The EAS guys are really really good at drying up a market so they don't have to carry any pesky passengers so that they can just fly more or less empty planes around with the taxpayer picking up the tab.


User currently offlinejamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12577 times:

Quoting planespotting (Reply 4):
If the U.S. really was based on a free market economy, larger and larger cities would absolutely have all of the resources and very little would be left for the sticks. That's not how it works though.

If the U.S. really was a free market economy, then there would be no airports owned or operated by cities or counties. Compare your airport system with those over here in the UK, where aside from a few remote airports in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland, every airport is in private ownership.

Kind of makes me chuckle to hear the political right laying into Amtrak every year (a public transport system providing essential service to many remote communities that has to fight for every dollar of its funding every single year) while overlooking the amount of tax payers dollars poured into airport infrastructure.

Just my two pence, which works out about 3 cents these days   


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12099 times:

Mike Boyd has a short video about the growing difficulties in developing viable SCASD proposals in an environment with ever fewer airlines, and the difficult operating economics of smaller RJs.

http://aviationplanning.com/insightinthree.phtml

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12019 times:

Rather than engage a political discussion about spending (better suited for a political discussion board) let's get back to the topic at hand.

What are some potential cities who may apply for grants? Are there rejected grantees that may try again this year? How did grants last year pan out for those cities?


User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12002 times:

Do you think you could see something like a proposal to find a suitor for a BLI midwest/east coast route? With the recent success in BLI for AS, F9 and G4, it seems like the next step would be to push for something eastward.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23069 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11910 times:

Quoting jamesontheroad (Reply 14):
If the U.S. really was a free market economy, then there would be no airports owned or operated by cities or counties.

Unless you believe that a free market economy requires that the government own nothing (hardly a defensible position, and certainly not the case in the United Kingdom), what's wrong with government ownership of airports?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11832 times:

I'm wondering if we're going to see more PenAir grants out of BOS? I've heard good things about their PBG services...


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11774 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 16):
How did grants last year pan out for those cities?

Lets take a look at the 2012 awards. I'll work off the summary that point2point posted in last years thread.


o Arcata-Eureka, California AVC New service, $370K, $750K, DEN, UA
  

o Asheville, North Carolina AVL New service, $400K,$300K, DEN, F9
  

o Bentonville/Northwest Arkansas XNA seek lower cost carrier, $975K,$1M, tbd, tbd
 

o Bloomington-Normal, Illinois BMI New service, $200K,$500K, NYC/DCA, tbd
  

o Burlington, Vermont BTV New service/marketing, $180K, $450K, ATL/CLT, DL/US
 

o Butte, Montana BTM Retension, $25K,$150K, SLC, DL
 

o Casper, Wyoming CPR Retain service, $70K, $100K, all current service at CPR , DEN/SLC/LAS, UA/DL/G4
 

o Champaign-Urbana, Illinois CMI New service, $425K,$6004K, IAD, UA
  

o Consortium of Block Island, Rhode Island and Culebra, Puerto Rico $250K, $595K, Cape Air
  

o Corpus Christi, Texas CRP Retension/marketing, $0, $340K, DFW/IAH/HOU, UA/AA/WN
 

o Kalispell, Montana FCA New service, $102K,$200K, LAX, G4
  but G4 had to drop service when LAX terminal issues cropped up.

o Los Alamos, New Mexico LAM New service, $68K, $272K, ABQ, New Mexico Airlines
 

o Medford, Oregon MFR Marketing/advertising, $20K, $150K, tbd, tbd
 

o Newport News, Virginia PHF Replacement, $1.6M, $2M, NYC/BOS, to attracted carrier, tbd
  

o Ogden, Utah OGD New service, $300K,$400K, AZA, G4
 

o Pendleton, Oregon PDT Retension/marketing, $5K, $50K, PDX, K5
 

o Punta Gorda, Florida PGD Marketing/advertising, $60K, $140K, tbd, tbd
 

o Redmond, Oregon RDM Resetablish lost service, $735K, $500K, SoCal, AA/UA/DL
 

o Rochester, Minnesota RST New service, $225K, $500K, DEN, F9
  

o Santa Maria, California SMX New service, $240K, $490K, DEN, UA
  

o Sarasota-Bradenton, Florida SRQ New service westbound/marketing, $315K, $500K, IAH/DFW/DEN, tbd
  

o Sioux City, Iowa SUX Marketing/advertising, $80K, $160K, ORD, AA
 

o Springfield, Illinois SPI New service, $170K, $250K, Florida/MYR/PHX/LAS, G4
 

o St. Augustine, Florida SGJ New service/marketing, $250K, $250K, tbd, G4/Silver Air
  

o St. George, Utah SGU New service, $300K, $550K, DEN, UA
 

o Telluride, Colorado TEX New service westward/marketing, $200K, $500K, West Coast, AS/UA
  

o Topeka, Kansas FOE New service, $1M, $1M, ORD, UA
  

o Tupelo, Mississippi TUP New service/replace, $25K, $75K, ATL, Silver Air
 

o Twin Falls, Idaho TWF Retain service, $85K, $550K, SLC, DL
 

o Walla Walla, Washington ALW Retain service/marketing, $59K, $250K, SEA, AS
 

o Williamsport, Pennsylvania IPT New service, $500K, $550K, IAD, UA
  

o Youngstown, Ohio YNG Reestablish service, $420K, $780K, IAD/ORD/DTW, UA/tbd
  

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2464 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 11414 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
Consortium of Block Island, Rhode Island and Culebra, Puerto Rico $250K, $595K, Cape Air
  

Some months ago I asked 9K about the time it was taking to get service to BID and the PR locale announced. They responded that they were having difficulty in obtaining the appropriate a/c (Islander as I had read in proposal IIRC) that they would put it off to 2014.
Somehow I don't think this will come to fruitin, as much as I'd like to fly a BNI from PVD instead of going to Westerly,RI.
However, I also do not agree that 9K should get a grant when New England Airlines has been serving BID form Westerly for over 40 years.
Anyway...............



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11024 times:

I've heard so far some cities that are applying include:

Tyler TX
Del Rio TX
Mobile AL
White Sands NM
Charleston WV
Gunnison CO
Klamath Falls OR.

Will await DOT to start posting the applications.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 938 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10984 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):

I've heard so far some cities that are applying include:

Tyler TX
Del Rio TX


I wonder if UA could re-launch Del Rio at some point.



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7639 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10975 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
Charleston WV

Now this is a bit of an eye raiser for me. CRW does need some service if they want to revitalize their economy, but I'm not sure who they can attract. the loss of the DL flight to CVG reportedly had a lot of negative impact.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11083 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
Charleston WV

Now this is a bit of an eye raiser for me. CRW does need some service if they want to revitalize their economy, but I'm not sure who they can attract. the loss of the DL flight to CVG reportedly had a lot of negative impact.

Others with more intimate knowledge of the market can provide more insight, but my first guess was they'd like to replace the NYC service they lost when AA switched its CRW service from LGA to DFW. But since that's slot dependent (i.e., new service is not just dependent upon a grant and a willing airline), it may be something else.

For an airport its size, CRW has a nice amount of service with five carriers (albeit with NK at less than daily).


User currently offlinepvd757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3414 posts, RR: 16
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10935 times:

SJU-CPX and PVD-BID will happen. I suspect early 2014 but it is contingent on 9K getting aircraft for those short runways.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11071 times:

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 23):
I wonder if UA could re-launch Del Rio at some point.

Del Rio grant proposal is supposed to be for service to DFW with AA.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecrj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11052 times:

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 10):
Isn't Great Lakes Aviation totally dependent on this program. If the program went away not that it should or shouldn't wouldn't they actually have to approach markets and offer service.

Near the end before going out of business, Air Midwest flew a lot of EAS/SCASD routes. Some of them were:

DFW-JBR
PIT-LNS
DFW-HOT
MCI-to various cities.

And I believe a few out of SLC.


User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9215 posts, RR: 21
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10945 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
Youngstown, Ohio YNG Reestablish service, $420K, $780K, IAD/ORD/DTW, UA/tbd

Youngstown should try and rebuild its economy, thus potentially generating more demand for air travel. Right now, it's right smack in between two large metro areas. One already has a hub and a decent economy, and the other has a rather quickly growing economy as well as population.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
Williamsport, Pennsylvania IPT New service, $500K, $550K, IAD, UA

I think this city is part of the push to reconnect many regional cities throughout Pennsylvania with Pittsburgh. Not sure of how or where I stand on this one.

I can see where this grant program makes sense, but in some locations it really does not. Sarasota, Florida? Tampa is right there. What could Sarasota possibly bring to the table that TPA does not?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinecrj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10915 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
Williamsport, Pennsylvania IPT New service, $500K, $550K, IAD, UA

Why, when they already have service to PHL on US?


User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9215 posts, RR: 21
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10712 times:

Quoting crj900lr (Reply 30):
Why, when they already have service to PHL on US?

Do you suppose the new AA will hold onto it post-merger? If so, then what would UA bring to the table beside IAD? Then again, you'd be giving IPT options. Fly AA to PHL and connect to other O.W. destinations, or UA to IAD and connect to Star cities... I'm not sure what the O&D is like to either of those cities; I can't find any data...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10665 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 29):
Youngstown should try and rebuild its economy, thus potentially generating more demand for air travel. Right now, it's right smack in between two large metro areas. One already has a hub and a decent economy, and the other has a rather quickly growing economy as well as population.

Youngstown is smack dab right in the middle of the Utica Shale boom sweeping Northeast Ohio. Over $2 billion has been invested thus far, well before drilling begins, in various pipelines, mills, facilities to support the operations. BP has its Ohio HQ in Mahoning County (Youngstown) and many experts expect to see the area begin to take off in the next few years with drilling activities.

One carrier in particular has noticed this that I do not have the liberty to say right now. However, the use of the SCASD for this carrier would be necessary without a doubt.

Nonetheless, the leisure model at YNG continues to grow with Allegiant. They are announcing a 4th destination on Tuesday.

BTW, I am one of those people out there that does not believe United will continue to have a hub in Cleveland past 2016-2018.



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 33, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10299 times:

DOT is slow uploading the applications to their website, however I understand the following cities have also applied.

Oxnard, CA
Lawton, OK
Duluth, MN
Branson, MO
Stillwater, OK
Yakima, WA

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 34, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10266 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
Stillwater, OK

Grant is for American to DFW.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
Lawton, OK

Looks like this one is to retain service on AA.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7640 posts, RR: 25
Reply 35, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10197 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
Stillwater, OK

Given the success AA has had connecting midwestern college towns to DFW, I think this would probably work even without a subsidy.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 34):
Looks like this one is to retain service on AA.

I would have thought LAW-DFW would have done better simply because of Fort Sill.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 685 posts, RR: 1
Reply 36, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10094 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 35):
Given the success AA has had connecting midwestern college towns to DFW, I think this would probably work even without a subsidy.

MHK is mostly military traffic, as is LAW, so I'm unsure if SWO will/ would see the same result. I'm not sure what the market for air travel is like there. DFW-midwest is strong and getting stronger as AA grows in DFW. There is a sold European departures bank now, alongside good connections to both coasts, and South America. From MHK, we get lots of people going DFW-asia, so in every direction the flows are good.

SWO has both OKC and TUL to deal with - it's right in the middle. It will be hard to sell the kinds of fares AA will need to sustain the service with WN so big in both cities - and now also in ICT - with lots of mainline service.


User currently offlinesouthsky From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10022 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
I've heard so far some cities that are applying include:

Tyler TX
Del Rio TX
Mobile AL
White Sands NM
Charleston WV
Gunnison CO
Klamath Falls OR.

I'm not surprised that MOB applied, but I'm unsure what they applied for... maybe DC service or NY service?


User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10015 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 35):
I would have thought LAW-DFW would have done better simply because of Fort Sill.

DL couldn't make LAW-ATL work. That said, I can see where LAW struggles with the proximity to OKC and WN's dominance there. OKC is a relatively short drive from LAW.

I flew into LAW in 2010 (FWA-DFW-LAW and back) for a family reunion, and it is tiny - the lone holdroom could only handle a full CR2 or SAAB 340, the TSA checkpoint only opens up 30 minutes prior to departure, and baggage is claimed from baggage carts and not a carousel. If G4 hypothetically started LAW-LAS/AZA, that holdroom would need to be tripled in size.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 39, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9955 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 38):
DL couldn't make LAW-ATL work. That said, I can see where LAW struggles with the proximity to OKC and WN's dominance there. OKC is a relatively short drive from LAW.

LAW-ATL really didn't make much sense, but it was free grant money for DL to use. LAW-DFW has been ongoing for years now, but I think it is symptomatic of the problem with using jets on sub 300 mile routes.

Drive from LAW is roughly 90 minutes to WRWA in OKC on I-44...depending on traffic. Not terrible at all. The terminal is pretty small, but that isn't really all that shocking for an airport that has pretty much always had just commuter service to Dallas for years (at one point ASA did DFW for DL before the hub died).

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 38):
If G4 hypothetically started LAW-LAS/AZA, that holdroom would need to be tripled in size.

I can't see G4 going to LAW. They tried SPS and failed within a month. It's probably more likely they will try to face WN again in OKC and see if attempt #2 works.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 40, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9510 times:

DOT is finally posting the apps.

Here are the first lot of submissions.


Bismarck, ND
Bismark Airport seeks $500,000 in US DOT grant funding matched with $500,000 in local funding to develop a minimum revenue guarantee program to introduce new network air carrier competition with access to one or more hubs.
With energy mining sector providing rapid growth in travel demand links a hub link to Dallas/Ft. Worth would would address a glaring current service need, or alternative reestablish eastward airlink to Chicago which is the 5th largest local domestic market in cooperation with American Airlines.

Boise ID
Airport and community requesting grant in the amount of $700,000 with local match of nearly $400,000 in cash and in-kind contributions for establishment of an east-oriented connecting hub. Due to current lack of market seat capacity, the growing demand of East Coast, traveler are disadvantaged and must often fly circuitous routings, absorbing higher fares. Airport has been in discussion with 4 carriers willing to potentially commence new Eastern hub air service and believes the revenue incentives, marketing assistance and fee waivers will help make such service a reality.

Wentachee, WA
Pangborn Memorial Airport seeks $200,000 in federal grant funds aided with $100,000 in local community assistance to better market and advertise its current Horizon Air service along with offer an incentive program, including fee waivers, start-up cost offsets, and marketing assistance for new air service outside the Pacific Northwest region such as less-than-daily, low cost, leisure-oriented service. (hint hint G4 to Vegas)

Joint Casper, Cheyenne, Cody/Yellowstone, Gillette, Jackson, Laramie, Sheridan, Riverton, Rock Springs, and Worland, WY
Wyoming Department of Transportation and its 10 commercial airports request $825,000 federal grant award, supplemented with nearly $5.0million in local funding for extensive, multi-year marketing, branding and promotional campaign to support of current and expand air services. Over recent years the states airports have experienced many service challenges due to industry volatility.

Branson, MO
Branson Regional Airport Transportation Development District desires $750,000 grant monies with $375,000 in local cash contributions to help reverse a 37% decline in airline departures in the Branson-Springfield market. With such cuts the underserved region heavily reliant economic activity of tourism seeks to offer a focused air service marketing, revenue and advertising campaign including targeting major markets like the Los Angeles basin.

MidAmerica, IL
St. Clair County seeks $200,000 in grant funding combined with $50,000 in local funds to offer marketing incentives to carriers launching service to new non-stop destinations. MidAmerica seeks to recruit low cost service for an additional Florida market, and potentially west to Las Vegas, Phoenix or Los Angeles. With catchment area of over 1 million, believes such service would nicely supplement current service to Orlando. (another request tailor made for Allegiant Air)

Charleston, WV
Charleston Yeager Community Consortium is requesting grant funds of $700,000 with local match of $170,000 to recruit and support new, low-fare nonstop service to Florida. The decision by Southwest Airlines to terminate AirTran service at CRW had an enormously damaging effect on traffic and fares to major points in Florida.

Grand Junction, CO
Grand Junction Regional Airport Authority desired $250,000 in grant consideration, along with $50,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to improve air service access and reduce the need for travelers to drive to Denver or Salt Lake City.
Grand Junction seeks to increase the supply of year-round seats with additional air service to a western US hub.



More later....



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 41, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9361 times:

Some more for tonight >>>


Appleton, WI
Outagamie County Regional Airport seeks $287,000 in federal grant funds supplemented with $185,000 in local funding to continue the airports strategic plan to provide community and airlines improved facilities by reducing service cost through development of share-use passenger processing equipment. Implementation of a common use facility will lead to improved efficiency and decrease in cost and entry barriers for new airline service particularly for LCC operators.

Fort Wayne, IN
Fort Wayne-Allen County Airport Authority request award of $600,000 grant supported with nearly $2.0mil in local cash and in-kind contributions to support access to major East Coast hub. Eastbound capacity from FWA has declined significantly leaving a significant need for the Fort Wayne community without nonstop service. Airport in partnership with American Airlines has identified opportunity for twice daily 50-seat CRJ200 service connecting the carriers PHL hub.

Duluth, MN
Duluth International Airport Authority applies for $700,000 in grant funding combined with $150,000 in local contributions for a regional marketing and business commitment plan aimed at reducing traffic leakage and help ensure current Chicago air service is self-sustaining.

White Sands, NM
City of Alamogordo with established record of air service to through the EAS program seeks $450,000 federal grant monies supported by $540,000 local match to establish a revenue guarantee pool and support marketing for standalone daily air service to Dallas utilizing regional jets on American Airlines.

Chicopee, MA
Westover Metropolitan Airport asks for $450,000 in grant award, with $308,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to help fund marketing and ground handling offset to aid in reducing the financial risk for proposed Allegiant Air service to one or more new markets.

Del Rio, TX
City of Del Rio applies for grant amount of $500,000, supported with $490,000 in local contributions to aid in the establishment of air service to a major regional hub. Del Rio for period between 2005 and early 2013 enjoyed air service link to Houston which was discontinued as part of United Airlines express carrier restructuring. Del Rio has been left with no scheduled airline access forcing travelers to drive 150-miles San Antonio. American Airlines has indicated its interest in connecting Del Rio with its Dallas Ft Worth hub. While carrier does believe the market can become self sufficient, the grant would provide critically important mechanism to aid such prospects.

Concord, NC
Concord Regional Airport seeks $250,000 in federal grant funding aided with $100,000 in local cash contributions to aid with market and start up cost of less than daily low-cost leisure service to Las Vegas and points in Florida on Allegiant Air. Concord airport serves a unique catchment area of almost 700,000 people who today primarily rely on legacy air service from Charlotte.

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9186 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 41):
Fort Wayne, IN
Fort Wayne-Allen County Airport Authority request award of $600,000 grant supported with nearly $2.0mil in local cash and in-kind contributions to support access to major East Coast hub. Eastbound capacity from FWA has declined significantly leaving a significant need for the Fort Wayne community without nonstop service. Airport in partnership with American Airlines has identified opportunity for twice daily 50-seat CRJ200 service connecting the carriers PHL hub.

I could see this one coming - and not just because the AA/US merger will open up US hubs to FWA with minimal investment thanks to Eagle's strong existing presence at FWA. As can be seen from the application, FWA management is being proactive about the AA/US merger and the opportunities it presents to the airport.

One has to remember that FWA-PHL would offer not just significantly superior connections to the East and Europe, but significant O&D from three very well-known companies. Philly-based Lincoln Financial (which was once based in Fort Wayne) maintains a huge presence in FWA. Likewise, Wells Fargo's dominance in Fort Wayne banking (#1 in local deposit share) means a lot of travel to Wells Fargo's offices in PHL. Comcast could also be a source of FWA-PHL O&D, as Comcast is based in PHL, is the largest TV and Internet provider in Fort Wayne (and recently launched their Xfinity X1 cloud DVR here), and has a local call center and market offices in addition to the normal fiber/coaxial cable plant and headend.

Between East Coast/Europe connections, the Lincoln/Wells Fargo/Comcast trifecta, and the existing loyalty at FWA to AA and the AAdvantage program, I could easily see Eagle filling two CR2s on FWA-PHL from day one. And not just filling the planes, but with yields good enough to keep the service after a year (a problem with SCASD grants - just ask the fine folks in SBN), and then even larger aircraft on both PHL and the existing DFW service as Eagle transitions to larger RJs and the new AA grows.

Lastly, I hope this application is not only one of the winners, but that Doug Parker & Co. starts FWA-PHL with or without the SCASD grant.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 43, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9072 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 42):
One has to remember that FWA-PHL would offer not just significantly superior connections to the East and Europe

2 daily vs. 5 daily via DTW isn't really going to trump existing service. However, a 2nd eastern hub is good for any city.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 42):
Philly-based Lincoln Financial (which was once based in Fort Wayne) maintains a huge presence in FWA. Likewise, Wells Fargo's dominance in Fort Wayne banking (#1 in local deposit share) means a lot of travel to Wells Fargo's offices in PHL. Comcast could also be a source of FWA-PHL O&D, as Comcast is based in PHL, is the largest TV and Internet provider in Fort Wayne (and recently launched their Xfinity X1 cloud DVR here), and has a local call center and market offices in addition to the normal fiber/coaxial cable plant and headend.

The first two make sense, you lose logic with Comcast. I doubt there is much daily O&D for Comcast to FWA. OKC is one of the proverbial call center mechas of the nation and it definitely doesn't have nonstop service everywhere to where a business is HQ'd.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 42):
I could easily see Eagle filling two CR2s on FWA-PHL from day one. And not just filling the planes, but with yields good enough to keep the service after a year (a problem with SCASD grants - just ask the fine folks in SBN), and then even larger aircraft on both PHL and the existing DFW service as Eagle transitions to larger RJs and the new AA grows.

You have higher expectations than FWA management themselves. They are only looking at load factors in the 40s to start eventually growing to the upper 60s and low 70s after 18 months. I would also temper your expectations a few degrees already calling for larger RJs on a route that is apparently going to require a SCASD grant to get.  

Regardless I feel this one probably would get approved. I am not expecting AA/US to announce the service right away though. There is going to be a period of reworking the existing network before adding in new segments. Eventually the dots will get connected which is something we are excited about down here - eventually seeing CLT service.


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8834 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
Branson, MO

Don't see why we should be supporting a privare business with these grants-



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23069 posts, RR: 20
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8817 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 44):
Don't see why we should be supporting a privare business with these grants-

Why should all the money go to the government or quasi-government entities that run most airports?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8783 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 41):
Del Rio, TX
City of Del Rio applies for grant amount of $500,000, supported with $490,000 in local contributions to aid in the establishment of air service to a major regional hub. Del Rio for period between 2005 and early 2013 enjoyed air service link to Houston which was discontinued as part of United Airlines express carrier restructuring. Del Rio has been left with no scheduled airline access forcing travelers to drive 150-miles San Antonio. American Airlines has indicated its interest in connecting Del Rio with its Dallas Ft Worth hub. While carrier does believe the market can become self sufficient, the grant would provide critically important mechanism to aid such prospects.

I'd say this is one of the more realistic ones of the bunch. UA got a lot of gov't rate tickets on the route, but I'm told by some UA shirts it was popular.



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7639 posts, RR: 18
Reply 47, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 40):
Branson Regional Airport Transportation Development District desires $750,000 grant monies with $375,000 in local cash contributions to help reverse a 37% decline in airline departures in the Branson-Springfield market. With such cuts the underserved region heavily reliant economic activity of tourism seeks to offer a focused air service marketing, revenue and advertising campaign including targeting major markets like the Los Angeles basin.

According to my grandparents, who used to frequent Branson, that market is on its way out. 90% of tourists are reportedly seniors riding busses into town. Many senior citizens don't like to ride airplanes, so I have a feeling this may not go forward...



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 48, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8716 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 48):
According to my grandparents, who used to frequent Branson, that market is on its way out. 90% of tourists are reportedly seniors riding busses into town. Many senior citizens don't like to ride airplanes, so I have a feeling this may not go forward...

I just think Branson is too regional of a destination. When I lived back north, you never really thought of Branson as a vacation spot. It isn't until you get South that you start thinking of going there on vacation, but only if you don't want to go to the FL Panhandle or South Texas instead...at least for those born/raised here.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5462 posts, RR: 7
Reply 49, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8689 times:

Good luck to CRW; I'm always sorry to see them struggling. I thought thanks to shale drilling West Virginia's economy was improving, maybe the downturn in coal undid all that.  


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 50, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8637 times:

Some more for this AM.

Greenville, NC
Pitt County and City of Greenville seeks $500,000 in federal grant funding supported with $600,000 in local cash funds to fund a revenue guarantee risk mitigation program help incubate new air service on to a national hub. Community today is served with only a single scheduled air carrier offering high average fares and thus seeks to establish second option. Delta to Atlanta is the logical choice for such additional service and such a link would reverse the large leakage of passengers to other NC airports seeking to fly DL and avail themselves to the broad beyond network offered via ATL.

Gunnison, CO
Gunnnison County Regional Airport request $350,000 grant monies matched with $350,000 in local cash to support new summer air service for the regions large tourism market. Located 225 road miles from Denver the Gunnison area is a major tourism area that has continued to see capacity imbalances particularly with seasonal flight variances. Several service deficiencies have been identified including the need to reestablish a summer air service link to major feeder market like Texas. Primary service target would be service on United Airlines from its Houston complementing its existing winter service making the Houston link year-round.

Sun Valley, ID
Friedman Memorial Airport Authority desires award of $500,000 in grant funds supplemented with $239,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to aid with the establishment of eastward hub air service. Today over 70% of visitors and community residents accessing air service do so with a 2.5 hour drive to Boise as result of high local air fares and limited service options particularly for those traveler seeking to fly outside the western US. The community has received support from United Airlines to offer year-round Denver service using 66-seat regional jet aircraft, and seeks to establish a revenue guarantee program along with marketing efforts for such a new service.

Huntsville, AL
Huntsville International Airport who has held the position as one of the top highest fare airports in the country seeks $1.5mil grant funds supplemented with $2.5mil local cash funds to help address considerable and long-term air service needs of the community by establishment of multi-year incentive programs for new services. The proposed incentive could be use by multiple carriers and would go towards offset of future airport cost plus media advertising. Today being almost equally distant to Nashville and Birmingham airports much of the communities air transportation need is seeking leakage to these airport which enjoy low-cost carrier competition, something HSV no longer enjoys following the AirTran-Southwest merger.

McAllen, TX
McAllen-Miller Airport request award of $750,000 grant funding combined with additional $750,000 in local contributions to provide a minimum revenue guarantee for service a western hub. Serving a community of nearly 1.3million, MFE today only has scheduled domestic hub service within Texas and seeks to establish a link to Denver as a logical connection point to atleast 75 additional local markets. Community has held discussions with both Frontier and United and believe a revenue guarantee funding would provide the needed incentive for the carriers.

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 51, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8557 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 49):
Good luck to CRW; I'm always sorry to see them struggling. I thought thanks to shale drilling West Virginia's economy was improving, maybe the downturn in coal undid all that.  

The airport isn't struggling, we just don't have any low fare leisure flying outside of NK to Myrtle. I guess things are just how they were before 2009. The Leisure passengers are dearly missed, but the overall profile of air service is still relatively strong. People really loved the AirTran flights and it's a shame they ended up being taken away in the fashion that they were.

Shale and other energy related business doesn't get you MCO service. It gets you routes like DFW and IAH. The sad thing locally is that everyone acts like the airport is failing or not doing "their job" because there's no Florida service. Spit on the fact that there's IAH, DFW, ORD, DCA, IAD, CLT, MYR, DTW, and even a mainline flight to ATL.


User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7595 posts, RR: 27
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8486 times:

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 51):
Shale and other energy related business doesn't get you MCO service. It gets you routes like DFW and IAH. The sad thing locally is that everyone acts like the airport is failing or not doing "their job" because there's no Florida service. Spit on the fact that there's IAH, DFW, ORD, DCA, IAD, CLT, MYR, DTW, and even a mainline flight to ATL

That is a common issue at many airports. The community often is very critical of their local airport and officials because they haven't been able to attract WN or "low fare" service to Florida. Nevermind the fact the airport has done an excellent job of adding or retaining service to hubs and key business destinations. Air service links that help support the local economy. It is difficult to understand that service to Florida is great, but small and mid-sized cities just do not have the local demand to justify such service on a regular basis.

I'm surprised there is no CRW-PHL (US) or CRW-EWR (UA)


User currently offlineMTNWEST1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2464 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8383 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 47):
According to my grandparents, who used to frequent Branson, that market is on its way out. 90% of tourists are reportedly seniors riding busses into town. Many senior citizens don't like to ride airplanes, so I have a feeling this may not go forward...

LOL, I feel there was really not much of a market to start with.
The traveller to Branson has and will be the people you describe.
I feel that the need for a stand alone airport serving Branson was un-needed. Plus the fact it is SE of town on a two lane road makes any hope of grabbing cheap folks from Springfield really a tough sell.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8308 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 52):
I'm surprised there is no CRW-PHL (US) or CRW-EWR (UA)

It's funny how that works. It would seem like those are "easy ones" and flights to DFW and IAH would be far off dreams. Alas, it seems to be the other way around. I think if not for our DCA flights, we'd have 2x up to PHL.

EWR should work for UA. NYC as a whole has always been somewhat of a void here.

Quoting MTNWEST1979 (Reply 53):
I feel that the need for a stand alone airport serving Branson was un-needed. Plus the fact it is SE of town on a two lane road makes any hope of grabbing cheap folks from Springfield really a tough sell.

If the people that spent the money to build an airport out there would have spent 1/8 of that money in conjunction with the SGF airport they could have subsidized air service to any corner of the country for a considerable amount of time. Not knocking BKG because it appears to be a very very nice facility.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 55, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8375 times:

More for this afternoon..


Fayette, PA
Fayette County Airport Authority seeks $75,000 grant amount to support furtherance of masterplan studies including airport outreach and marketing projects and establishment of 24-hour fueling services at the field. While the airport does not currently have any scheduled airline service, the grant monies would aid in studies to properly quantifying traffic levels, their spill to other regional airports, while also making facility improvements such as 24-hour fuel facilities.

Ithaca, NY
County of Tompkins request 750,000 grant award supplemented with 256,000 local cash and in-kind contributions to expand air service levels. Tompkins Regional Airport experiences lack of air service capacity to meet the demand generated in the region. With very high load factors there is significant mist match with demand creating service choke-points and traffic spill to other regional airports. While having access to 3 nonstop markets, ITH seeks to be connected with additional large national hub such as ORD or CLT. Proposed grant funding would aid with marketing and cost offset for such new service.

Klamath Falls, OR
City of Klamath Falls ask for $135,000 in federal grant funds added to $40,000 in local contributions to help maintain current air service or otherwise lose access to national transportation system. Currently Skywest Airlines provides the regions sole air service with flights to Portland and San Francisco. Skywest advises low load factors and increased cost have made the service struggle financially. Grant funding would be utilized to provide fund marketing plan for the flights along with airport cost offsets.

Lawton, OK
Lawton-Fort Sill Regional Airport desires $195,000 in grant award, supplemented with another $195,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to aid retention and expansion of current air service. Lawton-Fort Sill is solely served by American Airlines with a link to its Dallas hub. According to AA, the service has been under performing and the community is in danger of losing its schedule air access. Grant funds would be utilized to build regional awareness campaign to promote benefits of flying local, along with chamber of commerce commitment to improve improve ridership among the local business community.

Idaho Falls, ID
Idaho Falls Regional Airport seek grant award of $500,000 combined with another $97,500 in local monies to provide the risk abatement needed to reinstate service. With isolated catchment area of over 650,000 residents, the regions air service has been solely focused on western US. With established demand for travel east, the community seeks to reestablish such a link, and believe a reconnecting IDA with Minneapolis would be viable. Since the termination of service in 2009, MSP and eastern US traffic demand has grown in excess of 135% from the region. MSP is well placed to serve this growing demand, and grant funding would assist with giving Delta the revenue a guarantee, fee waiver, and marketing assistance for such resumed service.

Fort Collins, CO
Cities of Fort Collins & Loveland are seeking a grant award of $200,000, with additional $22,000 local supplement for resumption of scheduled air service. Since October 2012, after 10 successful years Fort Collins was left with schedule airline service. Working with airline partners FNL seeks to reestablish links to major domestic market such as Las Vegas, Phoenix, Orlando, San Diego or San Francisco. Grant funds would be used to aid air carriers including marketing support and economic risk mitigation.


=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2313 posts, RR: 3
Reply 56, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8171 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 41):
oncord, NC
Concord Regional Airport seeks $250,000 in federal grant funding aided with $100,000 in local cash contributions to aid with market and start up cost of less than daily low-cost leisure service to Las Vegas and points in Florida on Allegiant Air. Concord airport serves a unique catchment area of almost 700,000 people who today primarily rely on legacy air service from Charlotte.

this would totally be a waste of money of it was granted, Concord is part of the CLT metro area, which is home to the one the worlds largest airline hubs. I dont see this one happening


User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 57, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8140 times:

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 56):
this would totally be a waste of money of it was granted, Concord is part of the CLT metro area, which is home to the one the worlds largest airline hubs. I dont see this one happening

I actually think JQF is one of the most interesting SCASD grants I've seen in a long time. I think their location could give them a huge upside for an airline like NK or G4


User currently offlineytib From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 575 posts, RR: 1
Reply 58, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8097 times:

Some of these applications submitted are frankly quite laughable with the small percentages of money the local cities are offering with the grant money.

The tailor made applications for G4 service would bring small amounts of revenue to the airport, and decrease sales tax basis in the region due to the ease of taking a vacation elsewhere. There are some G4 city pairs where there is two way traffic, however I don't see any in these applications.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 59, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8080 times:

Quoting ytib (Reply 58):
Some of these applications submitted are frankly quite laughable with the small percentages of money the local cities are offering with the grant money.

SCASD only requires a 10-20% community match depending on scope of program.

However DOT is allowed to consider how broad community participation, and matching commitment is.

But remember its a grant after all, and like all Federal grants the theory is the community does not have the full funding itself that's why its looking to Uncle Sam for help to fill a need. No different than other transportation or infrastructure grant programs.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 60, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7997 times:

Quoting ytib (Reply 58):
The tailor made applications for G4 service would bring small amounts of revenue to the airport, and decrease sales tax basis in the region due to the ease of taking a vacation elsewhere. There are some G4 city pairs where there is two way traffic, however I don't see any in these applications.

Walk me through how a G4 flight brings less revenue to an airport than any other airlines flight.


User currently offlineytib From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 575 posts, RR: 1
Reply 61, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8000 times:

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 60):
Quoting ytib (Reply 58):
The tailor made applications for G4 service would bring small amounts of revenue to the airport, and decrease sales tax basis in the region due to the ease of taking a vacation elsewhere. There are some G4 city pairs where there is two way traffic, however I don't see any in these applications.

Walk me through how a G4 flight brings less revenue to an airport than any other airlines flight.

One way traffic, as a majority of the G4 flights bring residents from their home location to a destination (i.e. Florida), thus not bringing in tourism dollars to the origination of a flight.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2763 posts, RR: 1
Reply 62, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7937 times:

In the past 3 or 4 years of these SCASD grants, it remember that a good amount of them involved DEN and then mostly F9 and then maybe UA. So far this year, out of the 26 or so requests, only SUN is requesting UA service to DEN, and MFE is requesting either F9 or UA service to DEN. That's 2 out of 26, when previous years it's been something like 10 out of 26.

The MFE section states that airport officials have talked with both F9 and UA. In the past, it's been that F9 has been repeatedly mentioned as having communications with airport officials before these grants are submitted. I'm assuming that with the remake of F9 into an ULCC, that these type of SCASD routes are now not those that they will be seeking. Or maybe history shows that a number of them just don't work out anyway past the grant period, I think that SBN being the latest example.

Oh well..... I guess that we have to wait and see what the final result will be......

I do think that SUN-DEN on UA should be a winner...... and if not, well...... that's why the grant is there, eh?


 


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2313 posts, RR: 3
Reply 63, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7917 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 40):
Bismarck, ND
Bismark Airport seeks $500,000 in US DOT grant funding matched with $500,000 in local funding to develop a minimum revenue guarantee program to introduce new network air carrier competition with access to one or more hubs.
With energy mining sector providing rapid growth in travel demand links a hub link to Dallas/Ft. Worth would would address a glaring current service need, or alternative reestablish eastward airlink to Chicago which is the 5th largest local domestic market in cooperation with American Airlines

this I could see happening. Seems like AA via DFW has seen alot of success lately with these kind of flights


User currently offlineMTNWEST1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2464 posts, RR: 1
Reply 64, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7882 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 55):
Idaho Falls, ID
Idaho Falls Regional Airport seek grant award of $500,000 combined with another $97,500 in local monies to provide the risk abatement needed to reinstate service. With isolated catchment area of over 650,000 residents, the regions air service has been solely focused on western US. With established demand for travel east, the community seeks to reestablish such a link, and believe a reconnecting IDA with Minneapolis would be viable. Since the termination of service in 2009, MSP and eastern US traffic demand has grown in excess of 135% from the region. MSP is well placed to serve this growing demand, and grant funding would assist with giving Delta the revenue a guarantee, fee waiver, and marketing assistance for such resumed service.

With OO as UA doing nonstops to DEN, why not just try to add another DEN? Or a n/s to ORD?

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 54):
If the people that spent the money to build an airport out there would have spent 1/8 of that money in conjunction with the SGF airport they could have subsidized air service to any corner of the country for a considerable amount of time. Not knocking BKG because it appears to be a very very nice facility.

That is for sure. With SGF's new terminal, they could have really gained more than they have now IMO.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7841 times:

Quoting ytib (Reply 58):
The tailor made applications for G4 service would bring small amounts of revenue to the airport, and decrease sales tax basis in the region due to the ease of taking a vacation elsewhere. There are some G4 city pairs where there is two way traffic, however I don't see any in these applications.

I find the whole idea of a federal grant to bring in G4 kinda odd. If you're going to go to the trouble of getting a grant, wouldn't you want to use it for a network carrier as opposed to subsidizing local residents' cheap flights to Florida or the Desert Southwest? I appreciate that some airports may not have any other choice--no network carrier is going to fly into Concord, NC.

I know G4 often gets local subsidies and assistance. Have they ever been part of a successful SCASD grant? Are there strings attached to a SCASD grant like a minimum commitment of time to serve the market?


User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 66, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7692 times:

Quoting ytib (Reply 61):
One way traffic, as a majority of the G4 flights bring residents from their home location to a destination (i.e. Florida), thus not bringing in tourism dollars to the origination of a flight.

What does that have to do with the airport? You said they don't bring much revenue to the airport.

To the airport, a passenger is a passenger. G4 passengers buy things from concessions and pay for parking just like everyone else. They also pay a PFC if you have one.


User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7595 posts, RR: 27
Reply 67, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7665 times:

Small airports with limited or no air service, and who in reality of little hope of attracting a network airline often try to lure discount carriers like G4, or NK, or Skybus because they do bring revenue and funding to the airport.

Even just having a few weekly G4 flights will raise the enplanements to a level where the airport becomes eligible for additional FAA grant money for airfield and infrastructure improvements.

Plus, the passengers may buy concessions and parking, which in the end is revenue for the airport.

The airport managers aren't dumb, they know they may not be a candidate for AA/DL/US/WN service but they could attract an airline that operates under a different model.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7224 posts, RR: 13
Reply 68, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7598 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 40):
Branson, MO
Branson Regional Airport Transportation Development District desires $750,000 grant monies with $375,000 in local cash contributions to help reverse a 37% decline in airline departures in the Branson-Springfield market. With such cuts the underserved region heavily reliant economic activity of tourism seeks to offer a focused air service marketing, revenue and advertising campaign including targeting major markets like the Los Angeles basin.

Is that BKG or SGF? As a private airport is BKG eligible? Should they be?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 69, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7571 times:

More for this AM...



Macon, GA
City of Macon seek $556,800 in grant award matched with $104,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to aid in building air-service access. Recently Silver Airways commenced service to Atlanta and Orlando as an EAS provider with promising initial results. The community however seeks to create a broader strategic plan to aid with the marketing and public awareness these flights to eventually enable increased frequency particularly to Atlanta which would increase connecting opportunities for travelers.

Lafayette, LA
Lafayette Airport Commission applies for $289,500 in federal grant funding, supplemented by $115,500 in state and local cash funds to research, develop and implement targeted media program highlighting the advantages of using Lafayette Airport and supplementing other existing incentive programs such as fee waiver at LFT.

La Crosse, WI
City of La Crosse seeks $750,000 grant award combined with $380,000 in local cash and in-kind grants to aid with new hub air service access. La Crosse which is currently linked to nearby MSP and ORD hubs, seeks to establish a revenue guarantee program, offer marketing funds, and waive airport fees for new nonstop service to Dallas/Ft.Worth on American Airlines and help diversify the regions air service.

Mobile, AL
City of Mobile solicits $710,000 in federal grant funds supported with $1.1mil in local cash and in-kind contributions to broaden the air service activity. The community which is underserved based on its population and travel propensity aims to launch a aggressive media branding campaign aimed at helping airlines market Mobile to their passengers and as a strategic central gateway to the broader near 5 million populous Gulf Coast.

New Haven
Tweed New Haven Airport Authority request grant award in the amount of $740,000 combined with nearly $435,000 in local contributions as incentive for new air service. New Haven with population of nearly 1.8million serves as the socio-economic center of Southern Connecticut. Region is home to much corporate, educational an medical activity but has continued to suffer from deteriorating transportation access and is currently only served by a single air carrier. Greater flight options and lower fares have seen residents and visitors drive to airports as far as 3-hours away. The airport authority seeks grant funds to establish a second hub link to the DC metro area either on US Airways or United Express. Monies would be used to provide fee abatement and waivers, marketing assistance, and an initial revenue guarantee.

Pasco, WA
Tri-Cities Airport seeks federal grant of $700,000 supplemented with $70,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to provide a revenue guarantee to a network carrier for resumption of service to Los Angeles. Allegiant Air which previously operated a low frequency service to LAX with load factors in excess of 90% confirmed the existence of strong demand to Southern California which is estimated at nearly 100 passengers per day. With grant money the community seeks to establish a revenue guarantee program for a single daily 50 seat or larger RJ link to LAX. Airport has held talks with both AA and Alaska whom both state a community risk-sharing program would be a positive necessary step for such air service to commence.

Quoting enilria (Reply 68):
Is that BKG or SGF? As a private airport is BKG eligible? Should they be?

Its BKG.

Yes while the airport is private, bid participants are all public entities - City of Branson, Taney County, Branson Area Convention Visitors Bureau, Branson Transportation District, and Branson Chamber of Commerce.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7639 posts, RR: 18
Reply 70, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7506 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 69):
More for this AM...

Good evening from Tokyo   

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 69):
Mobile, AL

I hope this goes through. They have a strong market that's only going to get stronger with Airbus opening up a plant there.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7457 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 69):
Macon, GA
City of Macon seek $556,800 in grant award matched with $104,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to aid in building air-service access. Recently Silver Airways commenced service to Atlanta and Orlando as an EAS provider with promising initial results. The community however seeks to create a broader strategic plan to aid with the marketing and public awareness these flights to eventually enable increased frequency particularly to Atlanta which would increase connecting opportunities for travelers.

I find these applications for SCASD grants to help support EAS flying...interesting.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5815 posts, RR: 28
Reply 72, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7369 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 67):
Even just having a few weekly G4 flights will raise the enplanements to a level where the airport becomes eligible for additional FAA grant money for airfield and infrastructure improvements.

That is a big reason for a smaller airport with no or very limited current service to pursue G4.

  • * Airports with fewer than 10,000 annual enplanements qualify for $150,000 annually in FAA AIP grants.
  • * Airports with more than 10,000 enplanements qualify for $1,000,000 in FAA AIP grants.

Allegiant MDs with 166 seats at 90% LF operating 1X per week is over 7,700 enplanements annually.

Just having Allegiant flights twice a week and no other service can lead to an extra $850,000 annually in AIP grants from the FAA.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7224 posts, RR: 13
Reply 73, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7328 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 69):
Quoting enilria (Reply 68):
Is that BKG or SGF? As a private airport is BKG eligible? Should they be?

Its BKG.

Yes while the airport is private, bid participants are all public entities - City of Branson, Taney County, Branson Area Convention Visitors Bureau, Branson Transportation District, and Branson Chamber of Commerce.

I think this whole program is questionable, but isn't giving money that benefits a private airport even another level of questionable?

Chamber of Commerce also appears to be a private entity. From their website:
"Because the operation of the Chamber division of the BLACC/CVB is not directly supported by tax funding, membership dues and program/service fees are used to provide the staffing and systems necessary to create and manage programs, services, and other important benefits. - See more at: http://www.bransonchamber.com/chamber#sthash.3Kf6913R.dpuf"


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 74, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7307 times:

A few more for the afternoon.


Montgomery, AL
Montgomery Regional Airport applies for $700,000 in grant monies combined with $140,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to reserve loss of air carrier services. In the last several years due to industry consolidation, MGM has lost access to two national airline hubs with capacity reductions of nearly 25% creating local fare disadvantages leading to significant traffic leakage. As an emerging production-centric region focused on international business, the region lacks access to key commercial centers in the US. With grant funding mechanism MGM seeks to gain regional jet access to Chicago ORD via AA or UA.

Moline, IL
Rock Island County seeks grant award of $500,000 supplemented with $400,000 in local monies to reverse traffic leakage at Quad City Airport. While having a strong history of being aggressive and creative with air service development, MLI has experienced a 20% decline in seat capacity the last 2-years with resultant 30% increase in average fares and traffic leakage tripling. To reverse this trend, MLI seeks to increase passenger activity to ensure all current air service is self sufficient and become catalyst for frequency, destination, or capacity growth. MLI plans to launch marketing and advertising campaign to encourage local business and citizens use of the airport including rewards program providing free parking, discounts and miles for participants.

Angoon, Pelican, Tenakee Springs, Kake & Elfin Cove, AK
As joint consortium isolated island communities of Angoon, Elfin Cove, Pelican, Tenakee Springs, and Kake seek $300,000 grant award supported with $80,000 local in-kind contributions to aid with the marketing of EAS services.
The consortium communities are linked by Alaska Seaplanes who recently invested in listing the markets in GDS reservations systems. For the first time the community can now enjoy seamless single reservations with the world, and seeks to build upon this by developing and promoting tourism, convention and general travel to the region and seek grant monies to offer a marketing and advertising campaign.

Islip NY
Town of Islip and Long Island MacArthur Airport desire $750,000 in grant funds matched with $300,000 local contributions to further expand air service incentive plans. ISP which in the last year has successfully attracted two new routes, would targets grant funding to help establish a link to major national market of Chicago. ISP believes such service would be a natural fit as already nearly 200 travelers fly from ISP to Chicago daily on 1-stop basis, and many hundred more chose to drive to JFK or LGA for nonstop flight options. Funding would be used for local fee and cost offset for such new service, along with local media advertising in support.



Quoting enilria (Reply 73):
I think this whole program is questionable, but isn't giving money that benefits a private airport even another level of questionable?

We can argue over the merits of the program, but personally I have no problem supporting Branson private airport or not. The benefit of more travelers at BKG is if for the broader community not solely aiding the airport.

As far as chambers of commerce they are typically npn-profits there to benefit civic activity, so let them collect dues. I pay mine and they are out there lobbying for things such as infrastructure projects in my area.

Anyhow, governments give money to private entities all the time. One of my clients recently got $7mil from state of NY for promising to employ X amount of people.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 75, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7274 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 55):
Currently Skywest Airlines provides the regions sole air service with flights to Portland

IMHO, SEA seems a more logical cxing point

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 55):
Fort Collins, CO

If G4 can't make a go of it who can?

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 66):
To the airport, a passenger is a passenger.

I think he was talking more economic development wise (tourism) than specific airport.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 69):
Recently Silver Airways commenced service to Atlanta and Orlando

If we are paying for 2 EAS locations from MCN I guessed they skipped the "Essential" part or did I miss something?



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6617 posts, RR: 24
Reply 76, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7254 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 73):
I think this whole program is questionable, but isn't giving money that benefits a private airport even another level of questionable?

But for almost all the airports involved, most of the money is given to private entities anyway...whether they be airlines, marketing firms, consultants, etc. Almost all the SCASD grant money ends up in private hands, so I'm not sure being a private airport matters much. It's not like the general public is barred from using BKG.


User currently offlineMTNWEST1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2464 posts, RR: 1
Reply 77, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7297 times:
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Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 75):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 55):
Fort Collins, CO
Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 75):
If G4 can't make a go of it who can?

Well G4 stated reason for leaving was 'airport safety' due to no tower there. Nothing about not making $$ there. IIRC.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 78, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7287 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 75):
If we are paying for 2 EAS locations from MCN I guessed they skipped the "Essential" part or did I miss something?

DOT pays for MCN-ATL portion. Silver uses the Orlando leg to move aircraft between its Florida and Atlanta operations. Community got a bonus flight out of it.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1557 posts, RR: 3
Reply 79, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7257 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 74):
Angoon, Pelican, Tenakee Springs, Kake & Elfin Cove, AK
As joint consortium isolated island communities of Angoon, Elfin Cove, Pelican, Tenakee Springs, and Kake seek $300,000 grant award supported with $80,000 local in-kind contributions to aid with the marketing of EAS services.
The consortium communities are linked by Alaska Seaplanes who recently invested in listing the markets in GDS reservations systems. For the first time the community can now enjoy seamless single reservations with the world, and seeks to build upon this by developing and promoting tourism, convention and general travel to the region and seek grant monies to offer a marketing and advertising campaign.

To me, these are the kinds of things that should be supported. Granted, it is EAS, but the fact that they've got a system that will allow you to book the ticket all the way is a huge leap forward, and something that should be invested in all across Alaska, IMO.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4059 posts, RR: 8
Reply 80, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7194 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 75):
IMHO, SEA seems a more logical cxing point

If those flights were operating in the Alaska network, maybe....but they are still UAX as far as I know. In any case I doubt there is much if any O&D between Seattle and Klamath Falls.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 81, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7146 times:

This evenings lot. More on Monday.


Salmon, ID
Lemhi County applies for grant funds of $675,000 with additional $270,500 in local cash and in-kind contributions for the reestablishment of scheduled air-service. Lemhi County four times the size of Rhode Island and its county seat Salmon since 2007 has been without scheduled air-service necessitating a 2.5-3hr drive to nearest airports in Missoula or Idaho Falls. Lemhi County and greater Idaho have continued to see economic growth and now have the opportunity to reestablish airlink with Boise. Idaho based charter operator Gem Air with 30-years of experience proposes to offer twice daily service commencing summer 2014. Grant funding would go towards required airport start up infrastructure, facility cost offset, revenue guarantee and marketing support.

Plattsburgh, NY
Clinton County desires $200,000 in grant award supported with $50,000 in local cash funds to help expand existing EAS hub service. Since 2012 Pen Air has offered service linking Plattsburgh with Boston using a low frequency service pattern. Community seeks to utilize grant funding to support these EAS flights to help further build loads via a broad regional marketing campaign with goal of making the service sustainable and well supported by the community.

Richmond, VA
Capital Regional Airport Commission seeks $750,000 in grant monies combined with $235,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to incubate a new westbound hub link. With generally high regional travel demand for both business and leisure travel, there has existed a service deficiency to western US markets making accessibility difficult, and often more costly. With approximately 140,000 travelers alone from 10 large western markets, a hub link to Denver or Salt Lake City would open a much broader western travel market for RIC. Grant funding would be to provide appropriate risk mitigation and marketing/advertising for such new service.

Morgantown, WV
City of Morgantown asks for $400,000 in grant award supplemented with $86,000 in local contributions to air with promotion of current EAS air services. In mid 2012 after enduring several EAS route and carrier changes Morgantown received Silver Airways flying as United Express offering 18-weekly flights to Washington Dulles. Enduring 4 air carriers serving 4 markets over 12-years has left much of the public confused to as to current air service options. MGW seeks assistance to implement marketing efforts to promote the Silver Airways flying along with air market service study to better understand the local catchment area, its travel needs and future potential.

Shreveport, LA
Shreveport Airport Authority submits its application for a grant of $225,000 with additional local match of $130,000 to aid with a regional marketing campaign in support of current air service. The airports goal is to implement an extensive
regional awareness campaign using multiple advertising mediums to those within a 2-hour drive time of SHV. Further, the airport seeks to continue to market to current and potential new entrant carriers and to recruit new or upgraded air services.

Sanford, ME
Sanford Seacoast Regional Airport seeks $33,180 in grant funding supplemented with $11,520 in local in-kind contributions to fund a study to investigate the feasibility of implementing regional bus services as part of a multi-modal approach to improving access for travelers in the region to airports in Boston, Portland or Manchester.

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7084 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 81):
Richmond, VA
Capital Regional Airport Commission seeks $750,000 in grant monies combined with $235,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to incubate a new westbound hub link. With generally high regional travel demand for both business and leisure travel, there has existed a service deficiency to western US markets making accessibility difficult, and often more costly. With approximately 140,000 travelers alone from 10 large western markets, a hub link to Denver or Salt Lake City would open a much broader western travel market for RIC. Grant funding would be to provide appropriate risk mitigation and marketing/advertising for such new service.

Hmmm. What's the definition of "small community"? RIC was ranked 69th in the US in enplanements last year.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 83, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7084 times:

Airport requesting funding cannot be considered larger than a "small air hub".

Basically as long as you are not a medium or large hub per DOT you are eligible.

Here is DOT latest map with airport classifications.
http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/ri...ps/hub_maps/2011/pdf/2011_Hubs.pdf

RIC was regarded as a small hub in 2011. (latest avail ranking).



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6979 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 83):
Airport requesting funding cannot be considered larger than a "small air hub".

Basically as long as you are not a medium or large hub per DOT you are eligible.

Here is DOT latest map with airport classifications.
http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/ri...ps/hub_maps/2011/pdf/2011_Hubs.pdf

RIC was regarded as a small hub in 2011. (latest avail ranking).

Thanks. Didn't know that.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 85, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6723 times:

A little slow in posting this AM...


Lake Cumberland, KY
Pulaski County request $1,000,000 in grant monies supplemented of $845,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to support recently recruited airservice. The 16-county Somerset Lake Cumberland region home to over 400,000 has been without scheduled air service last several years and was recently able to gain commitment for an airlink to Nashville utilizing BAe Jetstream aircraft operated by Corporate Flight Management a large US operator. Utilizing the grant monies, the community seeks to establish a revenue guarantee program for the new service along with a two-year regional marketing plan to promote the flights commencing in 2014.


Greenville, Hattiesburg-Laurel and Meridian MS
Consortium of the Mississippi communities of Greenville, Hattiesburg-Laurel and Meridian seeks grant award in amount of $120,000 supported by $36,000 in local cash funds for marketing and promotional campaign of new EAS flying. During October 2012, the 3 communities saw a change in their EAS flying when Silver Airways entered the markets with new service to Atlanta. While it is believed Silver Airways and the Atlanta links will be a successful in its own right, the transitions from long standing network service to independent carrier has not been without pain and the consortium seek help promote the new service more broadly across rural Mississippi communities with ultimate goal of raising enplanements and reducing future EAS subsidy needs.

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 86, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6641 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 85):
Lake Cumberland, KY


What is the airport served out of this region ?



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6609 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 86):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 85):
Lake Cumberland, KY


What is the airport served out of this region ?

SME, Somerset, or Lake Cumberland Regional.


User currently offlinestarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 88, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6558 times:

Quoting planespotting (Reply 4):
I've said this many times in the past, but the United States is a country that is bound and determined to ensure that rural communities get more resources than they pay in for - that's why every state gets two senators no matter their population (among other things). If we want to maintain the rural lifestyle (which we do, because that's "real America," supposedly), it comes at a cost - one of which is that we pay a lot more to ensure air service to very small communities.

If the U.S. really was based on a free market economy, larger and larger cities would absolutely have all of the resources and very little would be left for the sticks. That's not how it works though.

Have a looksee at our budget deficit. Almost everyone gets more than they put in. The constitution was set up specifically with provisions to prevent a tyranny of the masses, otherwise you would end up with what China has. An impoverished hinterland and cities that command all the attention. That is why the primaries start in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Some of these air services are critical to maintaining local economies. While the air service may itself lose money, the effect to the local economy of being able to get parts quickly or goods to market make it worthwhile on the whole.

sometimes.



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 89, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6481 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 87):
SME, Somerset, or Lake Cumberland Regional.

I find it interesting that their $3MM FAA funded pax terminal was converted to an FBO 2 yrs ago after 3 yrs of use.

[Edited 2013-08-12 11:44:07]


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 90, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6520 times:

A few more..


Sprinfield, MO
City of Springfield applies for $450,000 in grant funding matched with $216,000 in local cash and in-king contributions to attract new air service. With continued decline in seat capacity and loss of access to 5 national hubs over the last 6-years the Springfield-Branson Airport sees growing air service deficiency and has been left with limited capacity often forcing passengers into inefficient and circuitous routings. With grant funding the community seeks to establish a revenue guarantee program along with marketing and advertising support as risk offset for incumbent carrier Delta Airlines to increase capacity, and development of new hub access to Charlotte on US Airways utilizing 50-seat regional jet equipment.

Trenton, NJ
County of Mercer seeks $500,000 in grant award supplemented with $32,000 in local contribution to implement a ground transportation service, and intermodal transportation study. Lack of adequate mass transit options negatively impacts the marketability and ability to attract and accommodate additional air service at Trenton-Mercer Airport. With grant funding the county seeks to offer shuttle service connecting the airport terminals with one or more regional transportation hubs for rail and other bus lines offering more efficient access to the airport. Additionally airport seeks to fund a long term study in cooperation with other agencies to better align the regions intermodal transportation system.

Stillwater, OK
City of Stillwater request $447,000 in grant funds with additional $3.8mil in local cash and in-kind contributions to establish a connection with the national air transportation system. With the region generating approximately 500,000 annual trips, the lack of scheduled air service forces travelers to drive 90 minutes to the closest commercial airport. Proposed grant funding would be utilized as revenue guarantee, fee waiver, and marketing support to aid with 2 or 3x daily services to Dallas/Ft. Worth on American Airlines utilizing 50-seat regional jets. Additional monies will be utilized to airside equipment purchases to meet commercial air service and ground handling needs.

Oxnard, CA
Ventura County applies for grant funding in amount of $500,000 supplemented with $279,630 in local cash and in-kind contributions for reestablishment of air service. With loss of United Express service in 2010, the airport with immediate catchment area of 685,000 has been forced to access the national air transportation system via roadway often taking up 2 hours. The top priority for the region with the grant is to establish a revenue guarantee, fee waiver and marketing support program to mitigate airline risk in reestablish nonstop service to one of the areas top-10 destinations, with particular focus on Las Vegas, San Francisco or Phoenix. Oxnard has met with both Allegiant Air and Alaska Airlines which have expressed some interest should the airport be awarded the grant.

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 91, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6466 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 90):
utilizing 50-seat regional jets

This another basket of horse apples in the program. Any airport should start out with t-props under 50 seats. Jets are not essential with exceptions.

At 225nm stage length I might argue it's uneconomical anf ineffecient.

[Edited 2013-08-12 11:41:29]


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinefjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 92, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6461 times:

Can someone tell me why the ATL spoke services with Silver cannot be under the DL Connection banner? Since Silver works with UA in IAD, why could they not offer these southern cities network service once again via the Silver flights? That'd probably help with enplanements in all of these cities.

For that matter, same would hold with the Great Lakes flying ex-MSP.



Go Blue!!
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 93, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6449 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 91):
This another basket of horse apples in the program. Any airport should start out with t-props under 50 seats. Jets are not essential with exceptions.

That airport is asking for a grant to help support DFW service on AA. Which prop in the AA fleet do you advise they use?


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6412 times:

Interesting that both Branson and Springfield, MO have applied for grants.

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6400 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 81):
Richmond, VA
Capital Regional Airport Commission seeks $750,000 in grant monies combined with $235,000 in local cash and in-kind contributions to incubate a new westbound hub link. With generally high regional travel demand for both business and leisure travel, there has existed a service deficiency to western US markets making accessibility difficult, and often more costly. With approximately 140,000 travelers alone from 10 large western markets, a hub link to Denver or Salt Lake City would open a much broader western travel market for RIC. Grant funding would be to provide appropriate risk mitigation and marketing/advertising for such new service.

I would think DL to SLC or WN/UA to DEN would probably jump on this offer. I wonder if the airport has been in talks with any of these airlines. Would be cool to see a link from RIC to the Mountain West there is enough demand it looks like.


User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1557 posts, RR: 3
Reply 96, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6341 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 91):

This another basket of horse apples in the program. Any airport should start out with t-props under 50 seats. Jets are not essential with exceptions.

With what airplane and airline? There simply aren't many turboprops left in the US that aren't already tied up somewhere.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 97, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6289 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 96):
With what airplane and airline?

SWO is saying they want AA and a E45. Last I looked MQ had plenty of ATRs left.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32880 posts, RR: 71
Reply 98, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 97):
SWO is saying they want AA and a E45. Last I looked MQ had plenty of ATRs left.

American Eagle is 100% jet.



a.
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 99, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6249 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 97):
SWO is saying they want AA and a E45. Last I looked MQ had plenty of ATRs left.

You must have not looked recently. The ATR fleet is parked.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 100, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6185 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 97):
SWO is saying they want AA and a E45. Last I looked MQ had plenty of ATRs left.

The 1990s are calling and want their fleet lists back. :-P


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 101, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6215 times:

The lot for this evening.


Wichita, KS
City of Wichita seeks $500,000 in grant award with additional $30,000 in local in-kind contributions to promote new low cost service. In June, Wichita gained service from Southwest Airlines to 3 nonstop markets. The new service has seen average market fares drop significantly with travelers enjoying access to broad national network. The success of the Southwest service is critical to the community, and the city seeks to partner with local groups to promote the flights and provide incentives to residents and business community to utilize them.

Wendover & Elko, NV
City of West Wendover and Elko jointly apply for $950,000 in grant funding combined with $575,000 in local monies for recruitment of new air service. Previously studies have shown the viability of linking the area with northern Nevada markets of Carson City or Reno. The consortium seek to establish new services linking both community airports with Reno using 19-seat direct air carrier public charter aircraft operatored by PC Inc. Grant award would aid with finalizing public charter agreement, implement marketing plan and provide contingency funds to ensure longevity.

Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, PA
Wilkes-Barre/Scranton International Airport desires $575,000 in grant award supplemented by estimated $610,000 in local matched funds and contributions to address deficiencies in including high fares and an insufficient level of service. With metro population of over 600,000 AVP continued to see steadily declining legacy air carrier service jeopardizing national access. AVP seeks to use grant award to develop air service program with goal of increase enplanements by attracting new service and expanding current services. The program goals would be to seek to secure additional nonstop leisure destinations, restore service to key business markets such as PIT, DC or BOS, and assist with marketing of new and/or existing air carriers.

Tyler, TX
City of Tyler applies for $225,000 grant award supplemented with $388,000 in matching local contributions to support current air service. Tyler Pounds airport serves a 21-county area with catchment population of 1.1mil, however due perceptions that airfares are higher, residents and business often endure 100-200 miles drives directly to Dallas or Houston metro airports. The city seeks to launch a regional media marketing campaign to promote the convenience and value of the airport while also upgrading its airline incentive program to encourage upgrades in frequency, destinations and aircraft size by the current two operators.

Wilmington, NC
New Hanover County Airport Authority seeks $750,000 grant funding supplemented with $425,230 in local monies to aid with reinstatement of air service. In early 2012, American Airlines ended its Chicago service leaving the community without access to significant national business market and major hub that offered significant western connections opportunities. Reinstating the Chicago service has been the highest priority, and the community seeks this grant funding to serve as the basis of resumption of service by American by providing a package to that reduces AA's risk as potential resumed service matures.

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6204 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 101):
Wichita, KS
City of Wichita seeks $500,000 in grant award with additional $30,000 in local in-kind contributions to promote new low cost service. In June, Wichita gained service from Southwest Airlines to 3 nonstop markets. The new service has seen average market fares drop significantly with travelers enjoying access to broad national network. The success of the Southwest service is critical to the community, and the city seeks to partner with local groups to promote the flights and provide incentives to residents and business community to utilize them.

So this is ironic...virtually every airport on this list every year wants to attract a low fare carrier and/or new service, and would kill to get WN. This may be the first time I've seen a grant request for an airport to market their WN service AFTER they landed them.

  


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 103, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6134 times:

ICT has a long and creative history using monies including SCASD grants to support flying. As I recall that's how they got AirTran to start with.

I would not be surprised if SWA asked for certain community commitments including ability to dip into the Kansas Affordable Airfares Program which at my last recollection had $5mil+ to tap when it took place of AirTran.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3157 posts, RR: 1
Reply 104, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6072 times:

And just think a few months ago DOT was within a month or two of closing 150 or more secondary ATC towers citing the the lack of funding under the federal sequestration where personal safety is in play.

In he credibility arena you have to ask yourself why the DOT doesn't postpone or cancel the SCASD program this year citing the federal sequestration. The SCASD program brings to the forefront how much fluff there really is and the bad decisions which are made. The squeaky wheel gets the grease I suppose.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7639 posts, RR: 18
Reply 105, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5910 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 101):
Wichita, KS
Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 102):
So this is ironic...virtually every airport on this list every year wants to attract a low fare carrier and/or new service, and would kill to get WN. This may be the first time I've seen a grant request for an airport to market their WN service AFTER they landed them.

I wonder though if this is successful, MEM or CVG would jump on board....



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3414 posts, RR: 3
Reply 106, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5893 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 75):
IMHO, SEA seems a more logical cxing point

UAL has a larger operation in SEA, but aside from Tokyo no additional destinations. SEA is a significantly longer flight and PDX has a number of business connections that SEA does not (due to being in state.) SkyWest operates a tiny regional hub as UAX in PDX with flights to SEA, EUG, RDM, and LMT.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 107, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5799 times:
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Quoting pointtopoint

"The MFE section states that airport officials have talked with both F9 and UA. In the past, it's been that F9 has been repeatedly mentioned as having communications with airport officials before these grants are submitted. I'm assuming that with the remake of F9 into an ULCC, that these type of SCASD routes are now not those that they will be seeking. Or maybe history shows that a number of them just don't work out anyway past the grant period, I think that SBN being the latest example."

It would be interesting to see SBN's total figures on the route when F9 leaves Sept. 8th. If my projections are correct F9 would have flown a total of 194 flights and a total of a little over 20,000 passengers total on those flights. It was hit or miss with an average load of 111-125 passengers per flight and sometimes there wasn't an empty seat on the flights but they also had two slow months in January and February. Yet they couldn't remain profitable on the route. My projections are that they would also have taken in gross revenue of 4 million dollars for those flights plus $700,000 in grant money if you figure the average fare would have been 200.00 per passenger on those flights. Now at a 7.6 CASM for their A319's excluding fuel and the crew hotel costs and the DGS ground contract cost them 2.1 million dollars in change to operate the flights. Now lets say you throw in an extra million for startup costs fuel crew expenses and the ground servicing contract they still came away with a million dollars in profit on the run. The airport figures that if they would have got 10 more passengers per flight the flight would have been super successful. Mind you DEN was not even in the top 25 markets from SBN and now it is in the top 10 something that I'm sure UA is now looking at. My own feeling is that F9 couldn't make enough profits on the run and with the opening of ILG and a shortage of airplanes, needed the aircraft elsewhere.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 108, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5781 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 105):
I wonder though if this is successful, MEM or CVG would jump on board....

Neither airport qualifies for SCASD per DOT definition.

See Reply 83.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3157 posts, RR: 1
Reply 109, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5655 times:

Does the airport have to be FAR (Federal Air Regs) Part 139 certified to apply for SCASD grant funding? SCASD to my understanding can be used in other ways in addition to wooing a carrier. I can see it both ways

A FAR Part 139 non-certification airport allows a carrier to fly up to nine pax (less than 10) what I understand to be charter ops.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5462 posts, RR: 7
Reply 110, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5603 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 103):
ICT has a long and creative history using monies including SCASD grants to support flying. As I recall that's how they got AirTran to start with.

ICT's proposal seems perfectly reasonable, but I wonder if it's competitive, in that it doesn't propose any new service. Seems like the DoT might leave it up to the airline and the civic parties to do the promotion.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 111, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5563 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 104):
In he credibility arena you have to ask yourself why the DOT doesn't postpone or cancel the SCASD program this year citing the federal sequestration.

Due to sequester the program was already reduced by about 20% this year. But I don't see the point dropping it as it both Congressionally popular and one for which there is money set aside already.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 109):
Does the airport have to be FAR (Federal Air Regs) Part 139 certified to apply for SCASD grant funding?

I dont see any references to types of airports besides the DOT hub classifications.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 109):
SCASD to my understanding can be used in other ways in addition to wooing a carrier.

Correct SCASD funding can be used for a whole host of endevours including certain types of facility upgrades.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3157 posts, RR: 1
Reply 112, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 111):
Due to sequester the program was already reduced by about 20% this year. But I don't see the point dropping it as it both Congressionally popular and one for which there is money set aside already.

My post was considering the sequester across the entire government when compared to other programs and to a certain extent internal programs within DOT. SCASD has gotten a bad name and translates to low priority fluff to a lot of people.

The money could easily be reprogrammed to other higher priorities. In military aviation I've heard DOD is reducing training flying citing the ability to purchase fuel. God forbid the Congress lead by example.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 113, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5222 times:
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SBN's June Traffic figures are in and guess what folks F9 was operating very full flights. SBN-DEN was operating at a 98% load factor with an average of 135.29 passengers per flight. Me thinks management of F9 made a big boo-boo in pulling out so soon and I would not count them out of the SBN market forever. They operated 17 flights out and 18 flights in. Inbound load factor was 95% with an average of 131 passengers per flight.

Here is a link to the report:

http://www.flysbn.com/documents/Jun2013StatReport.pdf

With the exceptions of January and February which were slow months for all airlines and the month of April which was after spring break Frontier's traffic on the SBN-DEN run is steadily increasing. So with or without the SASCD grant the route is and was not a failure.


User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 114, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5091 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 113):

SBN's June Traffic figures are in and guess what folks F9 was operating very full flights. SBN-DEN was operating at a 98% load factor with an average of 135.29 passengers per flight. Me thinks management of F9 made a big boo-boo in pulling out so soon and I would not count them out of the SBN market forever. They operated 17 flights out and 18 flights in. Inbound load factor was 95% with an average of 131 passengers per flight.

Where did they go and what did they pay?


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 115, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5003 times:
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Quoting kcrwflyer

"Where did they go and what did they pay?"

That we do not know, but the CASM for the A319 has been discussed on here and F9 if they didn't price these seats to low and figuring in the ratio of O&D to Connecting passengers etc. plus all the ancillary fees etc. couldn't help not making a profit from these flights even without the 70,000 monthly subsidy for those flights. We also do not know what F9's ancillary costs related to CASM were. That's why without speculating F9 will probably return in the spring of next year.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 116, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4849 times:

DOT is awfully slow posting stuff this year. Here are a few more


Montrose, CO
Montrose Regional Airport request $750,000 in grant award combined with $150,000 in local cash funds to develop additional air service links. In recent years it has become clear the Montrose winter recreation area continues to lack adequate capacity to meet seasonal demand from the eastern US. Current air services to hubs in Atlanta, Chicago and Dallas experience near 90% load factors which has made getting to Montrose costlier and inefficient for consumers. With the grant monies, Montrose seeks to reverse this lack of capacity by developing service incentive plan that consist of a revenue guarantee and marketing support for new or existing air carrier to offer either new eastward hub services, or grow seat capacity on current routes.

Savannah, GA
The Savannah Airport Commission applies for grant funding of $500,000, supplemented with nearly $2.1mil in local cash and in-kind contributions to help reestablish low-fare air service. With nearly 13 million visitors, tourism plays a significant importance in the regions economy. The lack of quality, low-fare service at SAV particularly from the Northeast U.S. markets that have traditionally been a large contributor of visitors significantly impacts the regions economic development. As proposed, the grant would be utilized to start up cost offset, and risk abatement for new air service offered by JetBlue linking Savannah with Boston commencing spring 2014.

Worcester, MA
City of Worcester seeks $150,000 in grant award combined with over $1.0mil in local funding to help with implementation and marketing of new air-service. Worcester Airport which has been without commercial air service since early 2012, recently was able to recruit JetBlue with new service to Florida commencing in November. The opportunity to re-establish commercial with a carrier such as JetBlue was a unique opportunity for the community and requires ongoing support to ensure its success. The requested grant monies would be utilized to aid JetBlue with start up cost offset, airport fee waivers, and ongoing joint marketing and promotional campaign in support of their two new routes from Worcester.

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 117, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 102):
This may be the first time I've seen a grant request for an airport to market their WN service AFTER they landed them.

Not the first time. CAK did the same thing after WN said that they were keeping the FL station there. (Their request didn't make it.)



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7639 posts, RR: 18
Reply 118, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 116):
The Savannah Airport Commission applies for grant funding of $500,000, supplemented with nearly $2.1mil in local cash and in-kind contributions to help reestablish low-fare air service. With nearly 13 million visitors, tourism plays a significant importance in the regions economy. The lack of quality, low-fare service at SAV particularly from the Northeast U.S. markets that have traditionally been a large contributor of visitors significantly impacts the regions economic development. As proposed, the grant would be utilized to start up cost offset, and risk abatement for new air service offered by JetBlue linking Savannah with Boston commencing spring 2014.

I love this idea but they should also try to get WN or F9 to MDW and DEN respectively. That region is poorly served out of SAV, and SAV is a wonderful airport to fly in.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3157 posts, RR: 1
Reply 119, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4483 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 59):
SCASD only requires a 10-20% community match depending on scope of program.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 59):
But remember its a grant after all, and like all Federal grants the theory is the community does not have the full funding itself that's why its looking to Uncle Sam for help to fill a need. No different than other transportation or infrastructure grant programs.

Spot on; it closely mirrors the same criteria federal highway and federal federal railroad. Nashville for example is seeking millions in a roughly 80/20 split to add a light rail

If I was an airport manager I might use SCASD monies to add electric charging stations for the general public. Those kinds of initiatives would certainly pass muster.

Quoting enilria (Reply 68):
Is that BKG or SGF? As a private airport is BKG eligible? Should they be?

My personal thoughts are any tourism draw should stand on its own merit. The tax payer should not be responsible for vacations or rest and relax venues.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3414 posts, RR: 3
Reply 120, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4412 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 119):
My personal thoughts are any tourism draw should stand on its own merit. The tax payer should not be responsible for vacations or rest and relax venues.

Exactly. I'm not sure I completely agree with the whole SCASD program, but initiatives to try and get non-daily discount flights to tourist destinations seems a poor use of federal funds.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 121, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 116):

Montrose, CO

The ski areas closest to MTJ are Telluride and Crested Butte and they have their own airports. As much as love the Western Slope this is no dice for me as pointed out by GentfromAK.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4202 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 121):

The Telluride airport is very very small and in a tough location. Montrose really is the closest airport to Telluride unless you have a private jet. The flights from den are unbelievably expensive and diverted often to Montrose anyway in winter. Almost everyone uses Montrose to get to Telluride. Private jets will be diverted frequently, it's a very tough spot for a airport. A large amount of CB bound skiiers also use Montrose it can have lower fares/more rental cars and you do what u gotta do to use miles. It's a very scenic route and not uncommon at all for cb skiiers to fly to Montrose.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25515 posts, RR: 50
Reply 123, posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

For whatever reason Fort Collins withdrew its application.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
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