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ET 787 On Fire At Heathrow Part 3  
User currently offlinemoderators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 509 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 71719 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Hello All,

The previous thread has gotten quite large so Part 2 is being created in order to further the conversation.

Part 2 can be found here ET 787 On Fire At Heathrow Part 2 (by moderators Jul 12 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Please remember the Airliners.net forum rules when posting. Posts found in violation of the rules will be removed.

Regards,

The Moderator Crew


Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
300 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineely747 From Slovakia, joined Jan 2013, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 71788 times:

Just gone over the two threads but see not much discussion going about how is ET going to replace the grounded jet. It will take some time before the 787 in question starts flying again. Not a very pleasant thing to have your jet parked on the other side of the globe. Do we know who's flying stranded pax out of LHR? Any more details on airlines' contingency planing when you loose a plane?

Would this incident make BAA redesign the Heathrow business readiness policy? We saw dozen of fire trucks merely parking by the plane in addition to London Fire brigade making their way to the scene. I can't help it but to shut down the whole of ground operation was a bit of over reaction, causing more misery to the travelling public to say the least. Yes the fire crew were attending to the smoking plane but for one there was no visible fire nor people on the plane. Secondly, it was not a real emergency scenario like seen at SFO or crash landed (BA38) 772. They should be able to handle a mid size emergency as well as keep one runway open for arrivals. Quite common with big airports so can't LHR cope?

Hope this incident will support the 3rd runway being pushed through.

[Edited 2013-07-12 16:34:42]

User currently offlineo0OOO0oChris From Germany, joined May 2012, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 71805 times:

Just out:
More trouble for 787 Dreamliner
Quote:
The scenario initially seemed identical to the fire that broke out on a Japan Airlines 787 parked at Logan this past January. That incident led to a four-month grounding of the jetliners while Boeing developed a safety fix for the batteries.

However, it later became clear the fire started at the other end of the plane from where the batteries are, in a crew rest compartment above the rear passenger doors.


Up to now there is only one member saying there's no crew rest area on the ET 787. Any other sources/links that back up the claim??


User currently offlinezotan From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 71428 times:

Ethiopian has NO crew rest in that area. Other sources are confirming as well.

User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2006 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 71330 times:

Leaving aside the technical and business issues here, I'm sure on result from the disastrous series of 787 stories, will be a reduction in the amount of hype and marketing BS surrounding new types. The name 'Dreamliner' now seems like a nightmare for Boeing, promising the earth and telling all the world's general media is a good way of coming very unstuck when things go wrong...


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineo0OOO0oChris From Germany, joined May 2012, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 71224 times:

Quoting zotan (Reply 3):
Ethiopian has NO crew rest in that area. Other sources are confirming as well.

Thanks for clearing up.
On second thought, as the crew rest spans along the whole upper fuselage, a fire in there would probably affect the ceiling on both sides of the plane, not just the right one as it's the case here. Whatever is up there, there must be a barrier which kept the fire spreading to the left side. So no crew rest makes sense.


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2603 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 71009 times:

I won't lie. Sabotage was one of the things that came to mind.
That or faulty maintenance or perhaps even something as crazy as an asylum seeker from Ethiopia managing to crawl aboard, and hide somewhere and then damage a system which when the plane was powered up caused the fire.
Stranger things have happened!

I doubt this was a battery issue. There are protections in place to prevent a fire from getting out of the battery container (A vent as mentioned early on in Thread #2). Also this fire damage is quite far away from any of these "suspect" batteries with no visible clue the fire spread from the battery location.

To me it looks like a fire broke out in the crown of the fuselage.
Insulation is only fire retardant, not fire proof. With enough energy, it'll go up.

Lets look at the information we have:

Fire damage on the crown of the fuselage.
No visible damage any where near the location of the batteries.
Signs of trouble quite different from previous battery issues.
Ground crew or someone aboard the plane reported sparks emitting from the ceiling/Air conditioning.

To be considered:
Today was quite a hot day. Overheat failure of equipment perhaps?
Aforementioned sabotage or deliberate act (Do we know for sure the police are involved?)


Not much to go on, but so far none of it even hints of battery issues.
Until more information is divulged, we should really give that subject a rest.

[Edited 2013-07-12 17:02:59]


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User currently offlineDano1977 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Jun 2008, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 70994 times:

I haven't seen it mentioned.

The reason Heathrow was closed, is that fire crews from the second base were dealing with an issue with a 777-300


Unless people are suggesting Heathrow aka baa should be able to deal with 3 emergencies at any one time?

[Edited 2013-07-12 17:04:56]


Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5649 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 70864 times:

Quoting ely747 (Reply 1):
I can't help it but to shut down the whole of ground operation was a bit of over reaction, causing more misery to the travelling public to say the least.

We are talking about the same airport which likes to brag about its importance as a hub yet is unable to cope with even a fairly negligible amount of snow.


User currently offlinezotan From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 70550 times:

No A/C unit is located in the area of the burn.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30379 posts, RR: 84
Reply 10, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 70439 times:
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Quoting garpd (Reply 7):
Not much to go on, but so far none of it even hints of battery issues.

It certainly can't be the Ship's or APU batteries since they're nowhere near there. Same with the primary electrical distribution panels.

The only Li-Ion batteries in that area would be the ones used for emergency exit lighting, but those types are common on other models (A380, for example) and should be far too small.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7102 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 70282 times:

Why do these things happen when I am asleep? Makes it difficult for me to follow....especially on a Saturday   

My buddy at NH, who has been in training for the dreamliner for the last 3 years, just sent me a text with the word "dammit" written about 25 times.


So can someone clue me in on bullet points?

* Parked at gate?

* Looks like fire was on main deck, judging by the photo of the scorched roof (Maybe this might be a W/o)

* Thomson plane turned back to MAN for an unknown reason ?


Anything else?



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6337 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 70213 times:

Quoting ikramerica in the previous thread (reply #211):

Quote:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 198):
Note that police were present treating the issue as "suspicious". This could give us a clue.


They would always investigate such a thing, no?


In the US, the police becoming involved in an aircraft incident would be highly unusual, unless someone saw sabotage happening.

On US Soil, the NTSB and/or FAA would determine the cause of the fire, and if it appeared to be suspicious, would then pull in the FBI (who has jurisdiction over acts of aircraft sabotage).

Just saying how it works "over here." I'm sure things work a little different on the other side of the pond, but it does strike me as odd that law enforcement would be involved this early in the investigation...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinespeedbird217 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 69990 times:

Quoting awthompson:
This was an empty aircraft on a remote stand with a small fire. That should only need one tender and fire crew!!!
Nothing to stop other tenders and crews attending, but, if while attending this ETH incident, another more serious accident were to occur simultaneously (very remote probability), potentially involving loss of life, the fire crews would divert to the more serious accident, perhaps leaving one small tender to deal with the ETH fire.
There had to be something else at play here, someone has hinted that there may have been another incident that occurred during the ETH fire. Perhaps also a tender went tech, or some additional strain on the service culminated in the closure.


What a complete non-sense! Better safe than sorry.
Fire engines have limited tank capacity for foam etc. If they are involved in an incident they can't just relocate somewhere else. Imagine the fire trucks at SFO would have been deployed elsewhere with their tanks half-empty, focused on another emergency when the OZ 777 crashed. You have to have a certain percentage of the emergency fleet 100% equipped and ready at any point to ensure the safety of flight operations.

Airports are loaded with fuel and other flammable stuff everywhere. It doesn't take much and your "small fire" turns into a catastrophe.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 69946 times:

This does seem to be a strange situation. It is concentrated in a small area, is hot enough to damage the outer skin, it occurred hours after the main electric systems were shut down and before they would be turned on.

If it is the A/C system what can go wrong there ? A leak of refrigerant ? A faulty/stuck on fan motor? Wiring problem with it?


User currently offlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 69963 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 7):
Today was quite a hot day. Overheat failure of equipment perhaps?

So we have an airplane that can't be left out in the sun? Nicely done Boeing. How many other planes burned in the boiling heat at LHR today? Qatar may want to rethink their order if the sun is a grounding item.

The 787 is a punch line to a bad joke. That is until it suffers its first fatality, which I fear is coming sooner rather than later. Hate to say "I told you so" but this plane is NOT ready for revenue service.

This is from February but it is a good take on the problems with Boeing and the 787: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financ...013/02/04/130204ta_talk_surowiecki


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2603 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 69951 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 13):

Much the same here

The fire, if caused by on board systems is purely an AAIB matter.
However if the Police are involved then there is/was reports or suspicions or even evidence of foul play. They will continue to investigate until either they find that this was a deliberate act at which point in then becomes a criminal investigation or it was an aircraft systems related issue at which point (as no one was injured) the Police will exit the investigation.



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User currently offlineOllieJolly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2012, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 69809 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 7):
Today was quite a hot day.

Just for clarification, according to the Met Office the temperature at LHR was around 24-25c between 1600-1700GMT when the fire apparently occurred so I highly doubt it's anything to do with that.


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2603 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 69620 times:

Quoting OllieJolly (Reply 18):
Just for clarification, according to the Met Office the temperature at LHR was around 24-25c between 1600-1700GMT when the fire apparently occurred so I highly doubt it's anything to do with that.

Neither do I. Was just throwing out ideas. It's all we can do!

My thermometers read 30c here today (Scotland). Hot hot hot.



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User currently offline747m8te From Australia, joined Aug 2008, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 69489 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 7):
Today was quite a hot day. Overheat failure of equipment perhaps?

Tempuratures were similar to a winters day here in Brisbane LOL...the aircraft in no way should over heat in such low temps! ...if it were to overheat anywhere it would do it in ET's ADD home LOL

Quoting pogo (Reply 6):
KL MD11 coming in today 13/07/13 operating KL1009/1010 to play catch up.

A nice substitute at least 
Quoting pogo (Reply 6):
The Dreamliner is more commonly known on the ramp as the binliner or plastic pig. The amount of times the UA has gone 'tech' at LHR is ridiculous, I for one would not want to fly on one.

Do you know what these 'tech' issues were?, if it has gone tech so many times as you say, has it been the same or similar faults? Would be interesting to know if a repeate issue has come up time and time again relating to this...either that or crew are just overly cautious with the new aircraft and makes sure everything is double checked to play it safe.



Flown on:DHC8Q200,DHC8Q400,EMB145,E170,E190,A320,A332,A333,A343,A380,MD80,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763
User currently onlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2210 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 69374 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 7):
I won't lie. Sabotage was one of the things that came to mind.

Considering that Boeing stock can slump by 5% on any news headline containg both words "fire" and "787" the possibility should certainly be explored. Who shorted large quantities of Boeing shares recently?


User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 957 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 69320 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Why do these things happen when I am asleep? Makes it difficult for me to follow....especially on a Saturday

Saturday?? What do you mean? It's Friday evening!



LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7102 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 69294 times:

Quoting OllieJolly (Reply 18):
Just for clarification, according to the Met Office the temperature at LHR was around 24-25c between 1600-1700GMT when the fire apparently occurred so I highly doubt it's anything to do with that.

Exactly. Here in Tokyo it's around 35 (95) and there haven't been any incidents here with parked 787s involving getting too hot.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 22):
Saturday?? What do you mean? It's Friday evening!

Do you see my flag? It's 10 AM Saturday morning here in Tokyo   



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6422 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 69218 times:

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 22):
Saturday?? What do you mean? It's Friday evening!



LD4

Since PHX727 is in Japan according to his/her profile, it is Saturday where he/she is located since Japan is on the west side of the International Date Line.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineartsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 70553 times:

Personally if what I have read is true about the fire coming from the air conditioning unit, then I think it's worse than it being another battery incident. It means that now there are two active problems causing fires on 787's as opposed to just one.

25 Stitch : I expect this is not the first fire to ever happen in a commercial airplane's air conditioning unit. Didn't a 737NG go up on the ramp in Asia due to
26 pianos101 : It's definitely not anything related to the A/C. There is no ECS equipment anywhere near the crown at those stations. Not even a duct.
27 Post contains links SonomaFlyer : Please provide proof that there are air conditioning packs located where the fire/thermal event took place **THIS IS RUMOR CONTROL** How about not re
28 Post contains links and images Kirkseattle : Good Morning! Flight arrived at LHR at approximately 6:30am on Friday and was parked at a remote stand, coincidentally near a fire station. Next flig
29 Post contains images PHX787 : My many thanks and 1337Delta764 I'm a male Ok I know we aren't supposed to speculate...but those wires could have easily been the source of the spark
30 TheRedBaron : Boeing: Time to retire the nickname Dreamliner, its going to be impossible to ignore these problems for the general public (that never cares about num
31 hivue : And the fire was first detected about 16:00 or 17:00 GMT? The plane was at a remote stand and, presumably, unpowered (except for the hot battery buse
32 Stitch : As I understand it, Ethiopian Airlines themselves were the source of the claims there was an issue with the air conditioning system and that it occur
33 Post contains links and images Kirkseattle : Someone quoted the Financial Times, however, I'm having internet trouble accessing the site. Stitch - can you see the article and what it says? It's
34 4tet : Burning carbon fibre is no joke, if the 'black' parts are really holes in the fuselage (wich IMHO seem the are) it means probably that the temperature
35 Pyrex : Man, you want to complain? In New York they see a cloud on the horizon and cancel half the flights. It is genuinely the only place in the world I hav
36 Post contains images A36001 : Too the people complaining that they think it is ridiculous LHR closed down during this event. I very much hope you are not in a position to require a
37 flood : Are there any overhead airconditioning vents in the area? They may not have been referring to the air conditioning's electrical system... how about a
38 Post contains links matt : Just read this in a comment posted on avherald.com "The aircraft fire is unrelated to the batteries. This will be confirmed tomorrow in a boeing press
39 hivue : How does a coffee machine write off an airliner that's powered off?
40 jreuschl : Another poster on the Thompson incident thread on avherald.com said similar: "The fire was reported to have been in the galley. Apparentley somebody l
41 mcogator : Well I hope he/she is right about how the fire started! It would be a damn shame if the plane is written off though.
42 flood : Has it been confirmed the aircraft was powered off? Not sure when it was scheduled to depart, but I recall Boeing advising airlines to power up the p
43 hivue : 21:00 local, I think. That could explain it. During the 787 battery threads I remember seeing several references to coffee makers being potential cau
44 hivue : Well QA did that with their Singapore A380.
45 L-188 : Well, a galley fire seems most likely at this point. Boiling something dray and it catching fire has happened before. More than one firehouse has gone
46 Post contains images DocLightning : 1) If you're going to sabotage the plane, that's an awfully odd and difficult place to do it. You'd have to climb into the crown, set your trap, and
47 kanban : This input is suspicious.. no Boeing engineer (field service) would put his job on the line this way and when I don't recall them ever being "ground
48 AeroWesty : BA in this case would be British Airways.
49 Post contains links B2707SST : Really hoping this turns out to be true - if so, it might dictate taking another look at galley equipment fuses and overheat trips, but should not in
50 bill142 : No they didn't. The repair cost less than a new plane.
51 solarflyer22 : I don't see how a coffee pot could do this and its only mildly reassuring. If the power is off on the plane why is it drawing current? My coffee make
52 dkny : If true a sad mistake by the crew
53 cornutt : The thing is, you wouldn't think that anything in the galley, other than a few lights, would be on the battery bus. I'm really starting to think the
54 Post contains links jreuschl : There still quite a few 787 in the air, including ET to LHR http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ETH700
55 BestWestern : True. One anonymous post, and we are all convinced we have the solution to the problem.
56 dkny : Flightradar24 shows ET700 as a 77L ET-AOQ
57 n471wn : Reputation of the aircraft and its ability to be repaired will rule the day here---not money and I have every expectation that Boeing will repair the
58 SCL767 : Yep, LA currently has two 787s airborne operating flights between LAX and SCL.
59 SonomaFlyer : As of a few minutes ago, 23 787s were in the air worldwide. There's nothing in the LHR incident at this point to suggest a world-wide grounding. Altho
60 BestWestern : Just like the ipad charger in the rear crew area made sense also! We are ignoring the Airline comments of a problem with the AC system.... Lets hope
61 thesultanofwing : Indeed. There was also the availability issue of a new airframe. I think the QA B744 in Bangkok was done up to prevent a hull loss though. (not sure)
62 Post contains images SonomaFlyer : The a/c packs are not in the area of the fire. The batteries are not in the area of the fire. The rear galley is in the area of the fire along with w
63 Post contains links and images DocLightning : I submit it would still be cheaper than a new 787 at this early point in the game. No only that but again, look at the picture. That hypothesis does
64 AeroWesty : Smoke, flames and heat take the path of least resistance. Without having a ceiling diagram, no one can tell which path towards the roof of the plane
65 Post contains links B2707SST : Probably so - the plane's barely had time to depreciate at all, I doubt there's a big market yet for 787 spares that would drive up its scrap value,
66 thaiflyer : I'm just informed by a BA engineer who is at the location that the probable cause are the APU power cables. If true would this indicate that the apu w
67 nutsaboutplanes : Could have been a portable GPU also which would stand to reason if folks were on the aircraft (I believe they said that there were mx folks on board?
68 DocLightning : You really think a fire way aft could cause no external damage back there and yet tons forward? Beautifully said. Even a new 77W with that kind of da
69 nutsaboutplanes : This seems much more plausible than a coffee pot or I-pad.............although, my I-pad does get freakishly toasty.
70 WingedMigrator : Or maybe the crown damage is simply proof that hot air rises.
71 pianos101 : Power feeders are below the pax floor in this area.
72 AeroWesty : Light a fire in a structure, then open the window. Only examining the roof, depending upon how long the fire had burned, if it had obstructions insid
73 1400mph : Any Boeing lawyers out there........ A rather supercilious journalist on Sky News has just described the Dreamliner as .... " a colossal double decker
74 DocLightning : From where? And without going through the fusealge? Heat rises, but it does not teleport. What is in the crown in this region? There are two radio ma
75 N14AZ : I didn't find any information on who detected the fire and from where?
76 bill142 : Same situation. Repair was cheaper than write off.
77 MigPilot : anyone knows where the zonal dryers and humidifiers are located in the 787?
78 pianos101 : Without an OFAR not much. One of the antennas is the ELT, which has its own power supply.
79 Post contains images scbriml : Yes, it''s warm in the UK just now. But remember where this plane is from. No it wan't.
80 Post contains links lastrow : Quoting sassiciai (Reply 149) from last thread (2): If you were ever to need 6 million lines of code to activate landing gear, I think I'm on pretty s
81 lightsaber : I'd love a copy of the translated transcript, un-edited. I can only imagine the 'creative geneology' AAB created. What is a camel goat crossbreed cal
82 AeroWesty : Wednesday.
83 Post contains links ETinCaribe : Well put and fully agreed. I learn lots on A.net. Not quite actually. Highs year around don't get to 30C, see: http://www.addis-ababa.climatemps.com
84 GDB : Give it a rest. The root cause of LHR's problems is that due to short term stupidity by UK governments, the airport is running close to full capacity
85 zeke : I heard similar, a coffee maker causing a thermal overload during the 8 hours on the ground. The thermal overload causing a fire in the galley which
86 rlx01 : Is this supposed to happen (in the sense that you blame the person who left the coffee maker on, rather than faulty electrical system)? Presumably so
87 Rheinbote : According to Mike Sinnett it is 4 million lines involved in cycling the landing gear. Total count on the 787 was said to be 14 million, but after num
88 Andy33 : I think you've missed some points in what is a very long set of threads already. Heathrow has TWO fire stations and sets of on-duty crews specificall
89 zeke : I am not sure how it happened. Your question is like asking if someone leaves a heater on in a house and that causes the house to burn down, should w
90 AirbusA370 : Not necessarily. I am almost sure that they will find a charred APU battery when they open the containment box.[Edited 2013-07-13 01:10:28]
91 Lofty : LHR had 3 incidents at the same time. PIA had a Fire Indication in the hold and VS had a leak on the runway. Also the B787 fire was reported as a AGI
92 slinky09 : While it's an unknown situation it's quite normal for the police to be involved here - unknown cause means all possibilities open. As soon as the cau
93 Post contains images PW100 : Well, in other 787 threads (I think it was the UA 787 thread) it was claimed that the lower reliability rate was also caused by not having sufficient
94 babybus : By who? Industrial sabotage is a very dangerous game to start playing. A fire is a fire. You don't want that happening in the air over the Atlantic o
95 Post contains links flood : Does anyone know on which side ET's coffee machines are located? To correlate with the fuselage damage, it seems for them to have been the cause they
96 AeroWesty : So it must be after 10am in the UK now. Is there any word on a press conference?
97 AirlineCritic : Coffee maker 1 - Dreamliner 0! Seriously though, it is too early to call the conclusion on this topic. Too little information. Conflicting information
98 Rheinbote : The visible damage points at a heat source located right beneath the crown in that specific area, left hand side forward of door 4L. Never seen a cof
99 SASDC8 : If it turns out to be a faulty coffee maker, that would be great for the 787 and Boeing. To me it seems rather odd that a coffee maker could generate
100 sankaps : I agree completely. If true, it is certainly not re-assuring that it was "only" a coffee-maker problem. I don't recall any other incident in recent y
101 pogo : They have never told us what the problems have been, seen them working a lot in the avionics bays fwd and aft, but in the short time that it has been
102 Finn350 : Based on the posts in this thread here is my two cents worth: The APU battery short circuited as in the previous incidents. This time the new containm
103 garpd : Dude, that was just an off topic tidbit. I've already said I don't think yesterdays temps had anything to do with this, I was only throwing out ideas
104 flood : Oh, I have my doubts about the coffee-maker scenario, but what do I know. It's been put forward as one of the reasons and I'm just trying to visualiz
105 Post contains links and images Bralo20 : Picture of ET-AOQ taken when I visited it in BRU: They are on the side of the firedamage but the galley is more to the back compared to the firedamag
106 AirbusA370 : A failing battery will not produce an overvoltage. More likely, the APU wiring or an APU Power Supply/Converter component in the crown area made a sh
107 garpd : The aircraft was apparently completely powered off. Nothing from any battery was flowing to cause a short or overheat. That being said, if it was the
108 Post contains images flood : Interesting, thank you. Indeed, but at least they're on the 'correct' side Had they been on the other side the whole thing would be even more improba
109 flood : Has this been confirmed? According to the NY Times it was connected to ground power.
110 sankaps : If this has anything to do with an electrical short-circuit, I would expect ETOPS restrictions at a minimum until the root causes are fixed once and f
111 justloveplanes : It is likely that the plane was "completely" powered off, or just major systems shut down? If this was a 787 internally generated fire, the source ha
112 blueflyer : That I keep wondering....
113 seahawk : It would be great if it was some machine in the galley, I fear it was something in the electrical system for the APU. Will be interesting to see if th
114 liquidair : Things we know. 787 catches fire on ground in lhr. 787s have form on catching fire, whilst on ground. 787 blaming coffee machine. 787 using 1920's tec
115 slinky09 : What voltage does galley equipment require and what voltage comes from the batteries or ground power? Isn't it higher than batteries can provide, if s
116 justloveplanes : This makes the most sense to me so far. A/C is the one thing (control Humidity, etc, to preserve the plane interior) that might be left on via plugge
117 DocLightning : Nope. Wrong side. In this photo, the coffee makers appear to be on the starboard side. The thermal damage was primarily to port. And given that the c
118 flood : The photo is looking towards the rear, so they're on the correct (port) side.
119 Post contains links holzmann : The latest from the NYT: http://nyti.ms/1dtKfVZ
120 KarelXWB : A write off, really? Aircraft with way more damage have been repaired in the past.
121 DocLightning : So the rear wall is the one without the coffee makers on it? The only thing new here is the report that it was connected to ground power (I really ho
122 dougbr2006 : If this is what people are saying caused by a faulty Coffee Maker then it does not bode well for the electrical system architecture. The coffee makers
123 Post contains links and images flood : Correct, sorry if I wasn't clear. Here's QR's setup with the machines on the other (starboard) side. View Large View MediumPhoto © Planecatcher
124 sankaps : A worrying line from the NYT article: "That would be the first time a fire had burned through the 787’s carbon-composite skin, raising questions ab
125 Johnwaynebobbet : But not with the complexity of a composite hull.
126 sankaps : Posted by Bendewire for some reason on a separate new thread: "I have seen an official email which should put to bed be all the speculation and hate a
127 sankaps : Even if the cause of the fire turns out to be something not directly attributable to the 787, say for instance a maintenance worker leaving behind a l
128 Aesma : I wonder if ET would want to write it off and Boeing acquire it to repair and then use it as a test bed for such repairs.
129 o0OOO0oChris : Thats a valid assumption. Due to the more repair-friendly panel design of the A350, this could turn out to be a cost advantage towards the A350.
130 garpd : Did we suddenly see A320 insurance prices go up after the first crash, second crash, third crash? Last I saw that model has done superbly well. Did w
131 jreuschl : If there are questions about the fire resistent qualities of composite, then I would assume the same questions would arise about the A350, right?
132 dougbr2006 : I'm sure neither ET or B want that eventuality, after all B has I believe four / five hulls that they have opted not to sell from the test flight pro
133 sankaps : I don't think most people are looking for an excuse to write off the 787 program, they are largely just stating valid concerns of the implications of
134 DocLightning : I call BS until someone posts the direct statement from Boeing. I am aware of no Boeing statements to the above effect. Calling something a "one-off
135 justloveplanes : The fire retardant qualities of CFRP are established by burn through tests. CFRP burns, but very slowly. For example, the Asiana fuselage burnthrough
136 quiet1 : Regarding the only-paint-damage vs the holes-burned-through-the-fuselage discussion: where was the smoke seen to be emanating from the plane before th
137 sankaps : So do I call BS on that. Just to be clear, as noted earlier I did not write the paragraph attributed to me in your comment, I just cut and paste what
138 Post contains images Bralo20 : I found one picture with still some smoke visible: This tends to suggest that some smoke came from the top of the fuselage...
139 DocLightning : Very good point. And that makes me wonder whether the NYT printed more than they actually knew.
140 Stitch : If this is in fact the initial cause of the fire, why does it have to be the 787's electrical architecture at fault? The galley is Buyer Furnished Eq
141 katekebo : By now, investigators from AAIB have a pretty good idea about the origin of the fire. They may not have every detail clear, but they know if it was ba
142 Ty134A : Is there still no better picture out there. I really want to know if these dark spots are holes or only paint darkening. I had a feeling these were ho
143 thaiflyer : If the CFRP burns much more slowly then aluminium does this not mean that it generates also much more smoke inside the cabin. ( in case of a cabin fi
144 par13del : Let's see, Boeing's shares fell by a few percentage points, that equals to what a few hundred dollars, millions or billions? How does that loss affec
145 hivue : According to "the coffee pot did it" theory this would be what failed, I suspect.
146 goldenargosy : Maybe someone forgot to turn off the iron.
147 DocLightning : Unclear whether that is smoke or steam coming off the crown. If the crown was hot, any water touching it would boil and steam away instantly. If it i
148 sankaps : par13del -- I think your comments above are getting into dangerously and slanderously unchartered waters, and unless there are hard facts to suggest
149 AirlineCritic : Holy smokes! It does look bad. I'm missing the FAA and their daily press briefings. When can we have one from the AAIB?
150 par13del : Folks doing crazy things do not usually look long term, in reality however you are correct. I suggest you re-read the post from Doc that I was respon
151 BestWestern : We should hope for the best. The last thing this industry needs is another grounding. What is amazing in these threads is knots certain posters are ty
152 hivue : Actually, if it were something that requires grounding they would have said it by now rather than let all those other 787s keep flying around.
153 RayChuang : The fact that nobody said the critical lithium-ion batteries were at fault tells me something else--probably on the roof of the plane--caused the cabi
154 oldeuropean : It never was the batteries. Obviously the whole electrical architecture of that aircraft is faulty.
155 sankaps : While one hopes it is not something that would require a grounding, I don't think we are home free by any means on this front. They may still be goin
156 par13del : Based on the sophistication of this a/c I'm inclined to disagree, even on the last grounding, 787's were flying around for a couple years with those
157 nomadd22 : This is crazy. People here who are normally very qualified in their various engineering fields are making statements about electrical systems that are
158 billreid : I have been on ZA002 and ZA005 during the certification process and I recall that there is no galley at all in the rear of the frame. This would elimi
159 N328KF : Not only is the conspiracy theory idea itself strange, but this incident has no direct effect on their operating funds. Let's say they lose no orders
160 goldenargosy : Assuming they repair the aircraft and put it back into service, I'm interested if anyone knows how they eliminate smoke damage. Will it always smell a
161 KarelXWB : Those were test aircraft, without any real cabin.
162 Post contains links KarelXWB : Meanwhile ET says it is to continue operating its fleet of 787s. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23298349
163 hivue : Not "all the facts" are known even today re the original grounding (e.g., the root cause of the battery overheating) but that didn't hold them up.
164 seahawk : The first grounding did not come after the first event. It needed another similar event to cause the grounding. Currently it is a unique event. So the
165 sankaps : No, but it took three incidents before they took that step, 9 days after the first incident. From Wiki: "[O]n January 7, 2013, a battery overheated a
166 PHX787 : This incident hasn't phased NH at all. Saw a 787 depart HND over my head while cruising in Tokyo Bay. Can someone confirm- is this a write off....?
167 Post contains links KarelXWB : "The aircraft has been moved to a secure hangar at Heathrow and the investigation has begun," said a spokesman for Britain's Air Accidents Investigati
168 AeroWesty : There hasn't even been a press conference on the cause yet. Hold your horses.
169 BestWestern : "After a normal flight from Addis to London passengers disembarked in the morning and the aircraft was cleaned. It was towed to a remote parking area
170 fcogafa : Glad it's not in an insecure hangar....
171 jreuschl : Ok, so if all power was off.. what could still be "on" to trigger a fire? Or did it come from some suspicious external source?
172 Post contains images slinky09 : Nobody has said it isn't, or if it it the batteries - but note that the rear battery pack is location under the cabin floor in the general area of th
173 rcair1 : Statements like this do not add to the discussion or knowledge of the incident. They do damage credibility. No A/C unit there. Silly - I've been to m
174 Pygmalion : Wow, that image is so far off. The aft EE bay is just aft of the main wheel well, forward of the aft cargo bay and 25 meters or more from the area of
175 pecevanne : Anyone knows how long will take to repair upper skin on this 787? Fire in the galley or cofee makers, imposible to happen, circuit brakers should make
176 BestWestern : I thought the same thing. **if** the airline comments are accurate - it totally throws out the coffee pot theory.
177 ltbewr : I would suggest that this was some kind of electrical wiring failure and a resulting short. There could have been improper installation of a wire or h
178 pecevanne : Anyone knows how long will take to repair upper skin on this 787? Fire in the galley or cofee makers, imposible to happen, circuit brakers should make
179 1337Delta764 : Not impossible, and far more likely than the batteries in this case.
180 m1m2 : I have no knowledge of the 787, but unless the batteries are disconnected, power is usually not completely off. Most (if not all aircraft) have compo
181 sphealey : Nuclear power plants in the United States are required to have timers and sensitive overload trips on every coffee pot in the facility, due to an unf
182 pecevanne : Agree, but trying to look straight to the problem. Coffee maker? Entertainment system? Sabotage? 787 wiring and battery system? Something is wrong and
183 Post contains images Rheinbote : That sketch is wrong, at the time of publication it just repeated an error that slipped into a 787 brochure that Boeing had online on their webpage.
184 Pellegrine : That was an A340-642X. People are concerned about the 787's electrical architecture from what I have read in various publications and forums. It seem
185 Post contains images worldrider : Sure not going to be a coffee pot or a lit cigarette, if so we would have been informed since a loong time. my bet is on a electrical issue again, eit
186 Post contains images sankaps : Incidentally, did anyone notice that the first thread on this aircraft fire was started by a.net member "Hotplane". What are the odds of that???
187 Rheinbote : Is there any material beneath the crown that could sustain a combustion process in the absence of electric energy? I would think that all the insulat
188 Post contains links BestWestern : Mark Mangooni, Ethiopian Airlines' senior manager in Britain, told the Financial that airline staff had discovered a problem with the aircraft's air c
189 sankaps : I think the general consensus is that this theory is being discounted as being from a not credible or reliable source, since (a) there are no AC pack
190 Post contains links Rheinbote : E.g. if somebody left the waste panel open, would that leave part of the electric distribution system powered all the way from the main BAT to the wa
191 SV777 : If there was no power on the aircraft, and every thing was switched off as per ET statement, the only thing left is the passenger oxygen generators th
192 BestWestern : Financial times, quoting the airline country manager is the most reliable source we had so far. I suspect that the country manager was quickly told t
193 slinky09 : Ahh thanks, it seemed authoritative but obviously not.
194 Post contains links dakota123 : Patently false. If a fault is not large enough to trip a breaker, it can and will happily continue to feed the electrical fault, often starting a fir
195 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Just to throw this idea out there: Had the cabin been cleaned before towing? If not, perhaps a 'freak' scenario occurred where sunlight was focused by
196 flylku : The same thing crossed my mind. I learned about it while watching CNBC (Financial Channel) and the stock lost 6 percent in minutes. Imagine that some
197 Post contains images SonomaFlyer : The speculation (as per usual it seems) is becoming silly. There are a finite number of causes given where the fire was located. Investigators will t
198 packsonflight : During tha certification process the 787 was grounded because of fire (or no fire, depending on definition of the word fire) in the P100 panel. Subjec
199 Post contains images hivue :
200 Post contains links PW100 : Try this one, from Boeing.com: 787 Airplane Rescue and Fire Fighting Information. Page 7 shows a fairly precise view of the battery locations; nowher
201 mcdu : It would help if you took my quote in context. A poster suggested the high temps at LHR created this melting and fire. So far we have people suggest
202 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Why the laughter? It has happened to vehicles like buses and cars resulting in their write-off, so precedents are there. Dan
203 Tristarsteve : Our B787 have gaseous oxygen bottles in the PSU.s. ( one little bottle in each PSU.) We have no chemical generators. Are you saying that Ethiopian B7
204 hivue : Sorry. I thought you were trying to inject a little humor into all this rampant speculation. BTW, has a lightning strike been ruled out? Meteor?
205 tortugamon : Do you just copy and paste your posts? I feel like I read this same thing over and over in every one of these threads. I hope you are saving yourself
206 lightsaber : One could hope that was tracked down that quickly... perhaps unapproved cleaning chemicals were mixed... (e.g., Chlorine based and NH3 based chemical
207 sankaps : None that have resulted it this kind of damage, it would seem.
208 o0OOO0oChris : The Wall Street Journal: Ethiopian Airlines Says Dreamliner Fire 'Not Related to Flight Safety' The fire on an unoccupied Ethiopian Airlines 787 Dream
209 DocLightning : These statements from airlines always irk me. If it wasn't related to flight safety then what was it? You can't possibly say that without knowing wha
210 sankaps : According to BBC, ET said ""The incident at Heathrow happened while the plane was on the ground... and was not related to flight safety." This could
211 by738 : BBC also saying no link to batteries
212 Post contains images trex8 : A fire on the ground in an empty plane is NEVER from a safety aspect the same as when airborne!
213 Post contains links sankaps : Where did you see that? This is the latest BBC update, and no mention of that. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23298349
214 Post contains links AeroWesty : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23302722
215 Pellegrine : What he posted certainly wasn't "patently false" and in fact, you are saying a similar thing here, albeit in a different way. I don't subscribe to th
216 sankaps : Ok thanks. Good news for the batteries, not clear whether this is good or bad news overall for the 787, guess we have to wait to find out.
217 cornutt : From what I've read here, there is no A/C equipment or ductwork in that area.
218 NYC777 : AAIB is saying there is no link between the LI ION batteries and yesterday's fire. As expected!
219 Post contains images WesternDC6B : I hope, if this turns out to be another design problem, that Boeing will have learned its lesson and will bring a lot of their design work back in-hou
220 par13del : A question, are they allowed to say nothing while allowing their other 787 a/c to continue flying, would the media and the public at large allow them
221 NYC777 : AAIB's press release: Serious Incident to Boeing 787-8, ET-AOP, at London Heathrow Airport on 12 July 2013  Date & Time: 12 July 2013 at approx
222 Norcal773 : Haha, I said something to that effect earlier on this thread and got a smack down from the mods. It really has gotten old reading his 787 comments, e
223 KarelXWB : I hope they will release some pictures from the inside.
224 sankaps : Pretty guarded statement as one might expect. "At this stage, there is no evidence of a direct causal relationship" suggests they are not yet sure wha
225 AeroWesty : Obviously, those in charge aren't reading the a.net threads, otherwise they'd know a crucial piece of information to release right away is whether th
226 NYC777 : heat damage is remote from the area in which the aircraft main and APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) batteries are located Can't be the batteries. I think th
227 winstonlegthigh : ...sharknado?
228 DTW2HYD : Could it be a APU fuel line leak plus some sort of ignition (heat or spark).
229 NeutronStar73 : This is starting to sound like some foul play is involved here.
230 Post contains links Pellegrine : I wouldn't know. I was referring to the FT article: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/3e418...db-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2YrmAOzX1 "Ethiopian Airlines sai
231 sankaps : How so?
232 Post contains images tortugamon : I am expecting it. It needed to be said though. Most people make an attempt at improving the dialogue here and those that don't should be admonished
233 trex8 : Well Spirit used to be "Boeing" and B took over Voughts portion of the fuselage and the Japanese heavies have not had quality issues I am aware of. A
234 winterapfel : so we have according to this topic, no crew rest, no A/C in that area, no battery, no APU. what then is there that makes this upper portion of the re
235 kanban : Funny how this line has been repeated several times, yet nobody has asked what did they do about it... ? from the NYT referenced above "No passengers
236 thesultanofwing : I guess that is good news. Still raises more questions than it answers in a way..... Where did you get that from please? I bow to your superior limer
237 Post contains images PlymSpotter : You might as well cover all bases - it is a possibility. Why do I think this - four firefighters and two fire safety experts in my family, the level
238 blueshamu330s : Call me a pedant, but the statement from the AAIB states there was no evidence of a direct link between the fire and the aircraft's batteries. Two thi
239 KarelXWB : The aft section is a very complex piece of the aircraft and a lot of wiring is going from here to the front of the aircraft.
240 sassiciai : Didnt you see the result of the SFA issue last week, with the result of an aircraft hitting where it did? Entire tailplane off immediately, is it des
241 kanban : I love the British understatements... and yet someone will still see an ET bird overhead and claim that's the one
242 Post contains links MigPilot : for me the a/c isn't entirely off the hook yet. many aircraft have humidifiers/zonal dryers installed in the crown area. http://ctt.se/applications__
243 Pellegrine : What is anyone supposed to ask about what they did about it? Most rational people are just waiting for more information. Huh? What is skeptical about
244 pnwtraveler : Fire can spark in one place and then travel to another location where more damage is caused. The fact that this is a "complex part" of the aircraft ma
245 alitis : I do, busted! Then you probably also know of the "Boys 1, 2, and 3rd Book of Electronics" -alitis
246 sankaps : Does not your first sentence above make you part of the speculative crowd that you go on to disparage so disdainfully? Only you are speculating it co
247 kanban : The trust factor with the press is frequently wrong.. and after so many posts saying the plane was not connected, out comes one that says it was... a
248 glideslope : IMO, this is the best hypothesis in here. Much earlier in thread #1 there was talk of a circuit breaker failure. Such a failure would allow the over
249 sankaps : If the battery in the box was damaged, I expect the AIAB would not put out a statement saying there was no evidence of a direct link between the inci
250 SonomaFlyer : Battery failure=undervoltage not overvoltage. The Investigation Press Release ruled out battery involvement. We now return you to your regularly sche
251 nomadd22 : I have no idea what your claiming was "Patently false". Wiring acting as a resistance heater means the wiring was too small. Any code requires any wi
252 rising : Indeed. I will just add this, the "teething" problems line is getting a little harder to defend. These are not minor computer glitches- fires are a h
253 CO953 : Just to add a contrarian, wistful post: All of this makes me wish for a commercial airliner built with spartan simplicity as its goal. Bring back the
254 Finn350 : I am wondering from where did the energy come to ignite the fire if it is not the batteries and the plane was not connected to external or internal p
255 kanban : Having been through the initial deliveries of the 727, 737, 747, 757, 767 there is a lot of teething.. the difference today is with our "instant" med
256 dakota123 : Common misconception that breakers protect in all instances. A partial fault can and often does *routinely* result in a current that is less than the
257 CO953 : kanban, Yes, you have a good point as to the instant communications magnifying the "teething" problems. Yet, also, it seems that with this plane, it'
258 spacecadet : It did no such thing. Here is the relevant phrase: "at this stage, there is no evidence of a direct causal relationship." That's it. That's a whole o
259 Post contains links CO953 : Well, I cannot believe that Boeing suddenly lost the ability to design an electrical system after all these years, and adding the institutional memory
260 cornutt : Wow. Were you finding problems with the actual articles in inspection, or was it mostly documentation problems? That's what I'm wondering too. Very l
261 kanban : while I don't recall any fires.. there were crashes, (watched a test 747 land for refurb and leave it's gear at the edge of the runway), cracked wind
262 Klaus : Actually replacing a 787 right away would be very expensive given the backlog. I'm pretty sure the other 787 customers and their respective insurers
263 sphealey : As of this particular moment, if the customer suffering the loss were willing to take one of the terrible teens I suspect a deal could be cut fairly
264 KarelXWB : It takes 8 to 10 months to modify and deliver a terrible teen.
265 Klaus : You're referring to early, sub-spec samples? Boeing would probably have to throw in a good compensation package to make those competitive.
266 AeroWesty : That still wouldn't resolve the question of how readily repairs may be made to a damaged frame. As Klaus pointed out, that's the real test. Boeing ca
267 DTWPurserBoy : It will be interesting to see what the interior damage was like. It had to get pretty hot for the outer skin to blister like that. One has to assume
268 Post contains images WarmNuts : I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but according to the seating map to which you posted a link, there is a galley station foreward of the doors
269 tortugamon : I imagine that figure will be higher than what ET paid for the frame but less than the current going price (but not much lower). Its replacement valu
270 n471wn : If I were the heads of Boeing I would take this a/c and rebuild it---regardless of the insurance declaration. If Boeing has any credibility at all on
271 ltbewr : Ok, this could be a WAG but could a short in the toilet electrical systems be a source of the fire considering they are also in the area of the burnt
272 DocLightning : #1) How damaged is the frame? Is there a technically possible way to make it as good as new? Yes, there are a few. Up to and including replacing the
273 justloveplanes : One thing the press release seemed to say is that external power was off per ET (contrary to the NYT story, big surprise). So the Batteries could be
274 AeroWesty : The fuselage makes up only a small fraction of what a plane commands as parts (notice that a plane is stripped, then a bulldozer just shreds the rema
275 Post contains images WesternDC6B : Not if we brought back corporal punishment! Seriously, are they taking that long to mid the initial production? I thoought all that was done?
276 cuban8 : You might be right in the end, but I would be careful about statements regarding this becoming a W/O or not. When fire is involved I think a W/O is a
277 KarelXWB : Still 9 early 787s are in storage and 6 are undergoing change incorporation at PAE (I'm not counting the test frames). And yes, it takes that long to
278 WesternDC6B : "Indirectly", yes. Like the power station 400 miles away could be the "indirect" cause of your television set faulting and catching fire. Your televi
279 zotan : The 787 is sold out for the next few years. How would they just get a new one?
280 zotan : All this talk of repair vs replace is very nonsensical. The damage from the fire was very localized. It will be a relatively straightforward repair.
281 DocLightning : When is the next available delivery slot? Which other customer's slot is going to get bumped and to when? And remember, the fire happened right in fr
282 WesternDC6B : I can think of at least one way: if the fire was a result of a Boeing goof-up, there are bound to be cancellations. That opens a slot. How far back i
283 mcdu : Do you say that as an opinion or as a expert in CFRP repair?
284 zotan : Really? Like all the cancellations that happened after the Li Ion battery issue? And then what would the airlines do for capacity? Buy A350s that are
285 zotan : Several years off. Airlines do not just get fresh replacements from the factory when an airplane is written off. And Boeing does not "bump" customers
286 trex8 : There could be damage well beyond the area where the scorch/burn through marks are.
287 mjoelnir : That would be a sure sign of a bad design.
288 Klaus : No, it's basic physics. If you're simply pushing down an already toasted slice again and again in direct succession, at some point it will start burn
289 hivue : Where does it seem to say that?
290 sankaps : Yes, but not a series of fire scares where the root causes are still not known. But they are yelling fire because they see lots of smoke, and scorchi
291 Post contains links tortugamon : Jon O has this: Preliminary indications: Fire was in area over the last few rows of seats. 787 on gnd. power at the time. Source: Boeing reviewing sys
292 kanban : As I recall most were identified during the delivery process .. I poured over the available photos and could not spot a ground power cart or cable...
293 Finn350 : Interesting. According to the Ethiopian Airlines Facebook posting: ET-AOP landed at Heathrow on 12 July 2013 after normal flight from ADD to LON. Pas
294 kanban : pure speculation on your part.. there was no electronic instantaneous news back then and no A.net full of doom sayers. What I can say is what wasn't
295 hivue : Disconnected as part of the fire suppression effort?
296 sankaps : Sure, but it is based on what is known and can be recalled, no different really from your observation below.
297 DTWPurserBoy : [quote=zotan,reply=279]The 787 is sold out for the next few years. How would they just get a new one? It has been known in the past that Boeing would
298 tortugamon : Don't know which way to think but there is definitely conflicting information. Not yet I don't. There was speculation of sparks and poor maintenance
299 spacecadet : "Poor maintenance" of an airplane that was delivered in November 2012? That seems far fetched.
300 TheRedBaron : I still have my tube amp and magnetic phono cartridge preamp... old geezer here too! I stated weeks ago that the 787 would be in the microscope of th
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