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AF Down To 7 Pax 747's  
User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 21000 times:

Mom just got back from JFK-CGD-JFK 77W/A380 (so jealous) . She brought me the AF in-flight magazine (which is great) and AF has their fleet in it . Says they have only 7 pax 747's left. No combi's mentioned,either. Just surprised me the number was so low.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebmibaby737 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1810 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 20993 times:

They've been down to 7 for a while now, surely?

http://www.planespotters.net/Product...r=Boeing&subtype=747-400&sort=type


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 20063 times:
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Air France started withdrawal of the 744 more aggressively then Lufthansa and BA perhaps because they have so many 777 and new A380's. AF allways had a smaller 744 fleet then BA & LH and in recent years flew them to cities with leisure demand, they have no First Class and a small J class cabin. Currently Miami to CDG is flown by a 744. These planes are also highly desirable for spares with their GE engines.

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 19640 times:

MEX is another station that gets 744s from AF. They don't have premium economy either, do they?


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlines4popo From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 19594 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):

about to change...

http://airlineroute.net/2013/07/12/af-w13update2/


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3795 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 19436 times:
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Air France no longer flies the 744 to JFK (KLM still does), mostly 77W and A380 equipment with maybe one 772. KLM still has some pax 744s left. I was surprised to see Lufthansa and BA mentioned but not KLM. KLM was one of the earliest 744 operators with British Airways.

By the end of this decade, not many passenger 744s will be left around the world. It's normal. The 77W and the A380, both being much more successful than the 748i, are taking over most 744 routes. Air France anticipates to retire its last passenger 744 in 2016.



Ben Soriano
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6437 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 19308 times:

Quoting s4popo (Reply 4):
about to change...

Well, wasn't the 777-300ER @ MIA before?


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User currently offlinehinckley From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week ago) and read 19216 times:

Well one of those seven overflew my car about an hour ago outbound from BOS to CDG!

User currently offlineAlnicocunife From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 18540 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
By the end of this decade, not many passenger 744s will be left around the world.

Delta will be one of the last with the oldest -400.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4919 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 18080 times:

Quoting Alnicocunife (Reply 8):

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
By the end of this decade, not many passenger 744s will be left around the world.

Delta will be one of the last with the oldest -400.

And hanging around for a while considering they've under gone refurbishment.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlines4popo From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 16492 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 6):

Well, wasn't the 777-300ER @ MIA before?

Yes, it's been here before. I may have misunderstood it, but I thought this was a permanent change and not a seasonal adjustment.


User currently onlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8017 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 16196 times:

I think most airlines will be phasing out their 747-400 fleet over the next 4-5 years--if only by then many of them have started to run up a lot of flight hours! Small wonder why the 777-300ER--which probably wouldn't have sold as well if the oriignal planned range of 7,100 nm (still air) had stayed that way--will soon be the most common model of the 777.

Indeed, don't be surprised AF buy some more 773ER's to finally allow the airline to phase out the 744 fleet, since most airlines are buying 773ER's are 747 replacements.


User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2682 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11591 times:

Quoting s4popo (Reply 10):

AF sends their 77Ws to MIA in winter, and their 744s in summer



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User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2492 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8555 times:

Currently, AF send their B744 to YUL, BOS, MIA and MEX.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2682 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8005 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):

Don't forget GIG



אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6682 times:

Quoting United_fan (Thread starter):
Mom just got back from JFK-CGD-JFK 77W/A380 (so jealous) . She brought me the AF in-flight magazine (which is great) and AF has their fleet in it . Says they have only 7 pax 747's left. No combi's mentioned,either. Just surprised me the number was so low.

How many -400s (in passenger/combi configurations) did AF have at their peak?



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 626 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

Quoting richierich (Reply 15):
How many -400s (in passenger/combi configurations) did AF have

If I am not mistaken, since the launching of this aircraft, AF has ordered 73 747s (all series), including 24 747-400s (including 11 -400F, no combi).

Source : http://www.planespotters.net/Product...amp;fleet=1306&fleetStatus=all



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6108 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 16):
If I am not mistaken, since the launching of this aircraft, AF has ordered 73 747s (all series), including 24 747-400s (including 11 -400F, no combi).

So they are down to about 1/3 of their peak for the -400 fleet... perhaps not shocking considering we are talking about 20-25 year old aircraft. I will say, however, that I have always enjoyed flying the B744 and have done so on several airlines. I will miss them when they are gone...



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

I wonder which aircraft will replace the 744 on the MEX route. MEX might not be A388-ready, and I hope AF does not start sending 77Ws.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7298 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5792 times:
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Is AF dumping their 744 to other carriers or just parking them? The other day I was at Sheraton CDG and had a nice hotel room view of one set of the runways. Saw a few AF 747 cargos take off. Saw 1 744 pax land. Also saw 2 AF 773 land and a DL 767 land. Only stood by the window a handful of minutes after my shower. Was a busy morning.

User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 626 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5465 times:

Quoting richierich (Reply 17):
So they are down to about 1/3 of their peak for the -400 fleet... perhaps not shocking considering we are talking about 20-25 year old aircraft.

Not shocking also considering their fleet of 37 77W of which AF was the launching airline (+25 777-200ER).


Quoting richierich (Reply 17):
I have always enjoyed flying the B744 and have done so on several airlines. I will miss them when they are gone...

So will I ! The upper deck has always been a fantastic experience, whichever class / airline !


Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
I wonder which aircraft will replace the 744 on the MEX route. MEX might not be A388-ready, and I hope AF does not start sending 77Ws.

Back in nov 2009, I flew CDG-MEX RT already in an AF 77W !
Agreed, the 10 abreast seating configuration in Y does not make it the most memorable experience, but at least the decent IFE and the free champagne help !  
As for the A380, MEX is not a premium destination for AF (no F).Therefore I doubt they will operate the aircraft in the very near future as it would result in a massive increase of premium seats. The 744s will remain in their fleet until 2017/2018 IIRC. By then everything can happen. One thing is sure though : the traffic is there.



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlinen729pa From UK - England, joined Jan 2011, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4802 times:

With the general lack of enthusiam for the 747-800, most of the 747 legacy carriers have passed it by, so sadly the writing in on the wall for the 747 unfortunately. Won't be too long before the 744 will be a rare plane to get on, so make the most of it I say while we still can.

User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2179 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4656 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 3):
MEX is another station that gets 744s from AF. They don't have premium economy either, do they?

Technically not, however, the upper deck has Y seats with more legroom and PTV guaranteed on all planes (main deck Y seating on AF 744 are sans-PTV except for the newest 3 a/c). AF sure either sells these seats for a fee, or reserves them for the most loyal customers or those paying full Y fare.

Quoting Azure (Reply 20):
Back in nov 2009, I flew CDG-MEX RT already in an AF 77W !
Agreed, the 10 abreast seating configuration in Y does not make it the most memorable experience, but at least the decent IFE and the free champagne help !

These might been seasonal adjustments, or was tried temporarily.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3777 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 20):
Back in nov 2009, I flew CDG-MEX RT already in an AF 77W !
Agreed, the 10 abreast seating configuration in Y does not make it the most memorable experience, but at least the decent IFE and the free champagne help !  
As for the A380, MEX is not a premium destination for AF (no F).Therefore I doubt they will operate the aircraft in the very near future as it would result in a massive increase of premium seats. The 744s will remain in their fleet until 2017/2018 IIRC. By then everything can happen. One thing is sure though : the traffic is there.

Thanks a lot for the info Azure; I appreciate it. Yes, I agree MEX is not a premium destination for AF. I wonder if AF will eventually have differently configured A388s with less premium seats. Anyway, if these seven 744s will stay till 2017-2018, perhaps it is safe to assume the MEX route will continue to be a 744 route until then. AM will soon be sending 788s to CDG, first a few days per week and eventually daily. That will be fun. Let's see what AF does after 2017.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 22):
AF sure either sells these seats for a fee, or reserves them for the most loyal customers or those paying full Y fare.

Yes, makes sense to be required to pay a bit more to fly in the upper deck with better legroom and a guaranteed PTV. As a SkyTeam frequent flyer, I will take that into consideration if I need to go to Europe soon!

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 22):
These might been seasonal adjustments, or was tried temporarily.

The A343 was sent to MEX seasonally. What is the timeframe for retirement of the A343s?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

Why doesn't AF just transfer all the remaining 744s to KLM. No doubt the configuration used is perfect for KLM, and they seem to be able to employ there 744s profitably. With such a small subfleet it would surely be more efficient for them all to be with one arm of the group?

25 LY777 : ALL 7 744s have PTVs from nose to tail, now.
26 AF185 : Don't forget that out of 22 B744 KLM is operating, 15 are combi with a total of only 275 seats as opposed to 415 for their regular version. It is dou
27 Lufthansa : All the more reason to give them to KLM, so they can earn some cash.
28 Azure : Are you suggesting AF does not make any cash on long-haul ?!
29 LY777 : I highly doubt it given their fares... Look at the fares on MIA flights for example, for August...
30 Lufthansa : I am suggesting these aircraft, in their current configuration, would suite KLM's business model better, given its focus on economy pax connecting fr
31 LY777 : 10 a/c is not really a subfleet (7 744PAX plus 3 744F).
32 Lufthansa : true. Still I think they could be better suited to KLM atm. The 744 should still have a lower CASM than the 772 and KLM's business model is about mov
33 SCL767 : Also during the NW13 season, the 744s will be deployed on the CDG-HAV, CDG-PUJ and the CDG-SDQ routes.[Edited 2013-07-16 03:08:41]
34 Azure : Your answer is rather diplomatic but this does not make it a valid one : the 22 KLM 744s and the 7 AF 744s are certainly maintained by the same divis
35 RayChuang : I still think both AF and KL will look at replacing their 747-400's by 2020. For one reason: airframe life. These airframes by 2020 would have run up
36 LY777 : I agree. The 748I could fill nicely the gap between the 77W and the A380 though
37 Azure : What gap ? AF 77Ws (COI version) have 468 seats, the 744s have 432. Economically, It would not make sense for AF to replace their 7 744s with a small
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