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New Zealand Aviation Part 131  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 17859 times:
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Welcome to the 131st edition of the New Zealand Aviation Threads.

Link to the previous edition New Zealand Aviation Part 130 (by 777ER Jun 30 2013 in Civil Aviation)

210 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 17889 times:

From the previous thread:

Quote:
The Cathay 330 (similar size to 787) PE is 2-3-2. It looks very comfortable.

It is very comfortable. And so is the 2-4-2 in the 77W. All you need now is for NZ to be able to configure it right so that the Y+ cabin remains with its own toilet. The current 77W seems fine for this but it'd be interesting to see if NZ wanted to shrink the size of the Y+ cabin in order to maintain supply to a similar level it is currently. CX's Y+ in the 77W is only 4-5 rows.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 17885 times:

Interesting K'man suggested the A380 on the NZ1/2 and SFO routes. I remember thinking a while ago that the idea of a small fleet of 380s could be viable for those exact routes. Who knows what it will be after the 77W's are gone, I know they have said that it is unlikely, but I hope they will operate twin decks again in future.

The whole aviation is expanding and growing spiel people talk about doesn't quite make sense to me when they reduced from 744 to 77W


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 17849 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 2):
Interesting K'man suggested the A380 on the NZ1/2 and SFO routes. I remember thinking a while ago that the idea of a small fleet of 380s could be viable for those exact routes. Who knows what it will be after the 77W's are gone, I know they have said that it is unlikely, but I hope they will operate twin decks again in future.

I too would like to see this, but NZ has learnt from historic experience that its passenger traffic is dramatically susceptible to the whim of external pressures beyond its control. The crash of the Asian Tiger economies in the late 90's; the outbreak of SARS in the early noughties; the GFC et al - have all shown NZ how precariously balanced their business is in terms of filling their planes, and taking on larger planes increases their risk exposure to sudden downturn.

How many A380's would they require for daily AKL-LAX-LHR and SFO-AKL-MEL flights? And would a fleet of that size be worth while? I heard six (for some reason) was the magic number.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 17851 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 2):
I remember thinking a while ago that the idea of a small fleet of 380s could be viable for those exact routes.

I have always felt that way about NZs LAX. For one thing it allows 77W/77E fleets to be released for other duties around the pacific rim, It also allows them to perform a once a day flight if they want during low season without losing capacity completely. No issues with fitting sky couches and all that stuff as well..

And It'd be good to operate APW/TBU at Christmas time, there should be just enough space for all the hand carriage.. 


User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 17826 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 3):
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 4):

Well then the 748i would be the way to go   (I'm saying that as a 747 lover and the 8i would probably allow NZ more flexibility). I suppose 6 A380s would be the magic number, I don't know. 6 is a small fleet, but nor ridiculously small. But yea they could use the 77W fleet to supplement NZ5/6, maybe Oz-LAX? All theoretical of course


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 17811 times:

I think that the argument against 480 seat A380 aircraft was that on the LAX and LHR routes they would lose money in low demand periods.

I'm unconvinced. At times of low demand either NZ5/6 could be suspended or else China could be reduced below daily and receive the A380 instead.

That ship has now sailed, but I remain unconvinced that 77W + 789 > 380 + 350.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 17714 times:

From 12th August to 01st November LA will be cancelled AKLSYDAKL sectors on Mondays and Thursdays.
For those days the flight will arrive at 04:30am and will stay in Auckland until Santiago departure at 16:15pm.

Quoting koruman (Reply 6):
I think that the argument against 480 seat A380 aircraft was that on the LAX and LHR routes they would lose money in low demand periods.

AKL-LAX-LHR is now pulling a profit. I think this is great news for NZ.
In which case I'd love for iSuperHeavy ops to happen, even if it would stuff AKL up something chronic. On a related note double airbridge A380 works for G10 starts on 17th July.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 17705 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 7):
AKL-LAX-LHR is now pulling a profit. I think this is great news for NZ.
In which case I'd love for iSuperHeavy ops to happen, even if it would stuff AKL up something chronic. On a related note double airbridge A380 works for G10 starts on 17th July.

The news about the profit is wonderful.

But I actually have doubts about the replacement of the Premium Economy SpaceSeat.

I agree that it takes up a lot of real estate and is heavy. I'd add that it's not very comfortable for sleeping either.

But there is another issue in play here, too. It is of domestic First/Business Class quality and so can be sold at a considerable premium over Economy class fares. I have bought my family a total of eight return Premium Economy BNE-LHR fares on it over the next 12 months, and they cost A$5000 each, when I could have an Economy fare on an Asian carrier for not much more than 35% of that cost. But these were tickets with my own $$$ rather than an employer's, and I thought the outlay worthwhile, especially given our ability to upgrade sectors due to ongoing Gold Elite status.

I'm assuming that NZ will end up with 2-3-2 Premium Economy on the 789 and 2-4-2 on the 77W. And I don't think that they will be able to maintain their yields on the key LHR-LAX (and vice versa) sectors if that is the case.

Anyway, back to the A380 v 77W argument.

The argument against the A380 was always that an aircraft configured 50 Business Premier / 50 Premium Economy / 350 Economy would at times be "too big" for the demand. And that Air NZ would find itself in the same boat that Virgin Australia often finds itself in with its excessively large 77W's: needing to sell an extra unwanted 50+ seats at fare levels so low that overall yields suffer.

But the difference is that Virgin Australia:

1) has nowhere else to hide the 77Ws at low demand times - their entire long-haul network is LAX and Abu Dhabi.
2) has no smaller vehicles with the range to fly non-stop to those destinations.

I don't think the argument washes with me. As I've written, if demand softens, consolidate NZ1 and NZ5 into a single A380. Or else send it to China on Tuesday and cancel Wednesday's flight, and consolidate two 767 flights onto a single A380.

The 77W + 789 +/- 77E fleet made sense when Qantas still flew AKL-LAX.

But now that they have exited, I think a 380 + 350 fleet would make much, much more sense.

[Edited 2013-07-14 21:48:22]

User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17616 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 8):
The argument against the A380 was always that an aircraft configured 50 Business Premier / 50 Premium Economy / 350 Economy would at times be "too big" for the demand.

450 seats is not too much more than a 744, doable with a A380. I still think the 8I would be a better fit due flexibility, and it can be configured to around 420 which would be a nice managable increase in Capacity for the airline.


User currently offlinenirvarma From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17379 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 7):
On a related note double airbridge A380 works for G10 starts on 17th July.

Is it just G10 thats getting a second airbridge? Are there plans to fit additional gates with second airbridges?

Cheers
NV


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17357 times:

Quoting nirvarma (Reply 10):
Are there plans to fit additional gates with second airbridges?

Well there's always the extension of the new pier which would increase the capacity. I'm not sure if any other gate at AKL could possibly be dual airbridged. But either way, there will only be 3 A380s scheduled for AKL and theoretically no more are needed. MH (and maybe the other A380 operators in HKG) use single airbridges in HKG.. Which doesn't seem to have any problems or complaints from passengers.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17301 times:

If Air New Zealand was to order 747-8s, I suspect it would be because of a hefty discount from Boeing for buying an unpopular model. Having A380s would be a pain anytime an aircraft goes tech; too bigger difference in capacity between it and a 77W/77E.

From the last thread:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 203):
Surprised this new delivery isn't in one of the new liverys!

Yes, I do wonder why also. Maybe they want to debut the new livery on a 787 first?

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 210):

Thankyou.

Quoting koruman (Reply 209):

   I can understand why people might be worried to fly the 787 on long, over water flights.



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 17279 times:
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Quoting zkojq (Reply 12):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 203):Surprised this new delivery isn't in one of the new liverys!
Yes, I do wonder why also. Maybe they want to debut the new livery on a 787 first?

The first roll out of the new livery is later this year, the first 787 is next year


User currently offlinePalmyboy12 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 17274 times:

From the previous thread:

Quote:
Next sharkleted aircraft OXB on the way.

Surprised this new delivery isn't in one of the new liverys!

I'm surprised too....why isn't OXB in the new livery? The announcement was made in early June....

Maybe NZ is pulling a Malaysia Airlines on us and only using their livery for their 'flagships'....hope not.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Wood
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Pawarin Prapukdee



Anybody actually know when the next aircraft (first in the fern scheme) is due to emerge, if at all?

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 5):
Well then the 748i would be the way to go

  

That would be marvellous....I mean, even with the fern livery on the A380, to paraphrase a saying - you can dress up a whale any way you like...but it'll still be a whale! The same logic applies to the 747-8 - to paraphrase another saying, a queen by any other name would look as sweet...



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17181 times:

Quoting nirvarma (Reply 10):
Is it just G10 thats getting a second airbridge? Are there plans to fit additional gates with second airbridges?

I heard talk that G2 would also gain a splitable double as in Pier B, but at the expense of G4.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7090 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17172 times:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/china-southe...87-flights-to-auckland-in-december

CZ have confirmed x3 weekly Boeing 787 services to AKL from mid December 2013.

The current CZ305/306 service will continue using an Airbus A330, but the new flight – tagged as CZ333/336 – will run three days each week on a Boeing 787.

Those flights are:
CZ336, departing Auckland at 10am on Sunday, Wednesday and Friday to arrive into Guangzhou at 5pm
CZ335, leaving Guangzhou at 2.30pm on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday to land in Auckland at 7am the following day



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinePalmyboy12 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 17015 times:

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 14):
I'm surprised too....why isn't OXB in the new livery? The announcement was made in early June....Maybe NZ is pulling a Malaysia Airlines on us and only using their livery for their 'flagships'....hope not. View Large View MediumPhoto © Jason WoodView Large View MediumPhoto © Pawarin PrapukdeeAnybody actually know when the next aircraft (first in the fern scheme) is due to emerge, if at all?
Quoting 777ER (Reply 13):

The first roll out of the new livery is later this year, the first 787 is next year

EDIT: Sorry about that...took me a while to fiddle with the intricacies of airliners post editing - by the time I finished your posts had appeared.



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 16604 times:

regarding flights Australia/Queenstown nonstop

It seems VA/NZ are dumping some seats.

Was looking at accommodation in ZQN & earlybird type deals seem to be extended & extended, which seems surprising with the good snowfall.

It appears that bookings of both flights & hotels hasn't lived up to all the hype in the media, which seems to be counterproductive.

The media says flights & accommodation are filling up fast, when they aren't, which make some people say why both looking.

Also some fares BNE/ZQN/BNE are more expensive than BNE/LAX/BNE.

It also appears that many travel agencies have given up on booking NZ as so little in it for them, so people must book their own flights & coordinate that accommodation bookings, which is what the agents used to do.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16542 times:
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Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 18):
Also some fares BNE/ZQN/BNE are more expensive than BNE/LAX/BNE.

Well that's what happens when you have supply and demand and only up to three airlines flying a route. Australia - LAX has many options (routes and airlines) while Australia-ZQN doesn't

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 18):
It also appears that many travel agencies have given up on booking NZ as so little in it for them, so people must book their own flights & coordinate that accommodation bookings, which is what the agents used to do.

While its sad travel agents have given up, its also a sign of todays world and the future. Travel Agents are a dying breed IMHO as the internet takes over. What could only be done by a travel agent previously is now becoming possible on airline's web-sites. I prefer to book my own tickets now as I can choose routes/times etc that suit/interest me. Travel Agents only book you with carriers that look after them so are biased towards airlines.

On my recent trip to the USA last month I booked NZ as usual to LAX and to get to MIA with UA I decided to go via DEN and IAH to try the B739, B788 (didn't happen as flight was cancelled due to pilot issues) on the UA web-site and DL from DTW-SFO to fly the B753. The 'normal' option would have sent me to MIA via IAH.


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16496 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 19):
Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 18):Also some fares BNE/ZQN/BNE are more expensive than BNE/LAX/BNE.
Well that's what happens when you have supply and demand and only up to three airlines flying a route. Australia - LAX has many options (routes and airlines) while Australia-ZQN doesn't

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 18):It also appears that many travel agencies have given up on booking NZ as so little in it for them, so people must book their own flights & coordinate that accommodation bookings, which is what the agents used to do.
While its sad travel agents have given up, its also a sign of todays world and the future. Travel Agents are a dying breed IMHO as the internet takes over. What could only be done by a travel agent previously is now becoming possible on airline's web-sites. I prefer to book my own tickets now as I can choose routes/times etc that suit/interest me. Travel Agents only book you with carriers that look after them so are biased towards airlines.

On my recent trip to the USA last month I booked NZ as usual to LAX and to get to MIA with UA I decided to go via DEN and IAH to try the B739, B788 (didn't happen as flight was cancelled due to pilot issues) on the UA web-site and DL from DTW-SFO to fly the B753. The 'normal' option would have sent me to MIA via IAH.

BNE/LAX only has 2 airlines nonstop.

BNE/ZQN in winter only really has 2 as well, as VA/NZ can be considered 1 airline.

QF has stuff all-once a week for around 12 weeks a year. Why on earth doesn't JQ fly BNE/ZQN ?

On the one hand you have fares BNE/ZQN/BNE AROUND $1K but on the other hand NZ is dumping for $350-$500.

NZ/VA do 10 per week in busy part of winter (twice on Sundays) but they can't use bigger aircraft & with limited windows at both BNE & ZQN

hard to see them putting on more weekend flights, except possibly another on Sat.

Who wants to depart at 0545(Wed), which means checking in at BNE at 0500 at latest or 0615 Wed, Fri, Sun ?

Talking to an agent, they are doing lots of Europe, Asia, USA etc. but virtually no Australia or NZ, which may come back to bite airlines.

They also told me that many fares can't be found online at all anywhere. Eg. Australia to USA on QF & then back on FJ, which is almost always cheaper than QF in both directions & can't be found online even on QF or FJ websites.

Said they like families as they make commission x number in party & often have stopovers, which again are hard to search for online + few tricks of the trade which wouldn't divulge.

Said they often get price shoppers who say they must fly these dates & they come back to them with if you do it this way or that might be cheaper, when told if moves dates day or 2 or stopover for day or 2 they'll save 1000's.

Seems many people stupidly believe that everything online is the cheaper.

When you do a search online, computer only searches for EXACTLY what you ask for & computer can't think of other ways of doing things.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16442 times:

''Air New Zealand Plans Honolulu Service Increase from late-June 2014''

Is this to do with the 787's arriving in June?

. From 24JUN14 to 27SEP14

NZ010 AKL1100 – 2145-1HNL 763 x135
NZ009 HNL2300 – 0625+2AKL 763 x247

how soon will it take to switch over to a 787 flight?



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16394 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 21):
how soon will it take to switch over to a 787 flight?

If PVG and NRT are to get 789 first, then it will be 2015 earliest before we see 789 on HNL


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 16386 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 20):
BNE/LAX only has 2 airlines nonstop.

BNE/ZQN in winter only really has 2 as well, as VA/NZ can be considered 1 airline.

QF has stuff all-once a week for around 12 weeks a year. Why on earth doesn't JQ fly BNE/ZQN ?

On the one hand you have fares BNE/ZQN/BNE AROUND $1K but on the other hand NZ is dumping for $350-$500.

Even if those airports only have 2 direct options, there is always connections via other airports which sometimes can be cheaper. High fares are a result of supply and demand. Customers demand flights and the airlines put on X amount of flights that they know they can charge good fares on and return a profit. Customers will always buy those tickets

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 20):
Talking to an agent, they are doing lots of Europe, Asia, USA etc. but virtually no Australia or NZ, which may come back to bite airlines.

I don't think it will bite those airlines as booking short haul flights yourself is really simple. Booking long haul flights with hotels, tours, cars etc is also easy but can involve hours of work. You can even save money doing it yourself compared to the travel agent.

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 20):
They also told me that many fares can't be found online at all anywhere. Eg. Australia to USA on QF & then back on FJ, which is almost always cheaper than QF in both directions & can't be found online even on QF or FJ websites.

Doesn't matter if you can't book a return flight in one booking as mixing and matching could result in saved money.

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 20):
Seems many people stupidly believe that everything online is the cheaper.

Doing it yourself allows you different options and you can save money doing it yourself, you've just got to look at ALL the airline/options. I saved money booking my recent USA holiday myself and I got to travel via an interesting route. I would have saved even more money if I didn't go via DEN


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 16336 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 20):They also told me that many fares can't be found online at all anywhere. Eg. Australia to USA on QF & then back on FJ, which is almost always cheaper than QF in both directions & can't be found online even on QF or FJ websites.
Doesn't matter if you can't book a return flight in one booking as mixing and matching could result in saved money.

Are you serious ?

Book 2 one ways to USA & it cost a fortune. One way fares are close to cheapest return fares.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 16366 times:
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Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 24):

Yes I'm 100% serious. Could've flown NZ to LAX and FJ return last month for cheaper then NZs return fare but didn't want to risk a tight connection from a late DL arrival.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5298 posts, RR: 11
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16268 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 6):
I think that the argument against 480 seat A380 aircraft was that on the LAX and LHR routes they would lose money in low demand periods.

I'd say with 50J and 50W they would fit over 400Y seats which is rather large. The aircraft would be harder than the 744s to place during the day so mostly would remain parked at AKL other than school holidays where there would be demand for it to go to BNE.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 7):
From 12th August to 01st November LA will be cancelled AKLSYDAKL sectors on Mondays and Thursdays.

Any idea why? Be nice if QF added a widebody to cater LA's SYD PAX.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 15):

I heard talk that G2 would also gain a splitable double as in Pier B, but at the expense of G4.

Expecting another operator soonish? I've heard the odd thing like SQ several times QF to DFW and CZ.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16408 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 26):
Any idea why? Be nice if QF added a widebody to cater LA's SYD PAX.

Maintenance requirements on their much reduced A343 I have heard. All pasengers incorporated intoQF schedule I think...


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5298 posts, RR: 11
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16391 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 27):

Maintenance requirements on their much reduced A343 I have heard. All pasengers incorporated intoQF schedule I think...

Probably is, they are down to 2 A343s soon. They are 5 weekly SCL-AKL during that period down from 6.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8761 posts, RR: 5
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16399 times:
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Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 28):
Probably is, they are down to 2 A343s soon. They are 5 weekly SCL-AKL during that period down from 6.

That is correct. The SCL-AKL-SYD route will indeed operate 5x weekly until the end of October. LAN will phase out CC-CQF relatively soon as our airline moves towards operating a wide-body fleet consisting solely of Boeing a/c by the end of next year.


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 870 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 16332 times:

There have been some changes to the Air NZ domestic schedule.

All 23 DHC's will be used from 12 Aug. There's a new 0740/0900 NSN-AKL which then does an 0925/1000 AKL-TRG replacing the 0855/0930 AKL-TRG, that aircraft now doing an 0835/0905 AKL-WRE.

15 AT7's will be used from 14 Oct instead of early Dec, replacing the 0645/0745 AKL-NPE DHC which does the new 0640/0810 NPL-CHC from 14 Oct instead of early Dec.

Still 17 BEH's in use morning and evening, but less activity during the day. Could easily fit in an 0855/1210 AKL-MRO-BHE-CHC and 1450/1805 CHC-BHE-MRO-AKL, a CHC-OAM-CHC, and a NSN-PPQ-NSN.

PA515


User currently offlineHanginOut From Austria, joined May 2005, 550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 16278 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 24):
Doing it yourself allows you different options and you can save money doing it yourself, you've just got to look at ALL the airline/options. I saved money booking my recent USA holiday myself and I got to travel via an interesting route. I would have saved even more money if I didn't go via DEN

While a.netters may be willing to take the time and effort to research fares (I know I love hunting down a good bargain), the average person won't bother. They'll just go to an airline site or something like travelocity and punch in point A to B and then just pick and choose, not realising that if they did their homework that they could save themselves some money.



Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 16084 times:
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Quoting HanginOut (Reply 31):

Firstly that was my comment and secondly. Yes the majority of 'normal' people don't understand that, but I think you would be surprised how many people (especially family's) who do their homework and check elsewhere.


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 15941 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 25):
Yes I'm 100% serious. Could've flown NZ to LAX and FJ return last month for cheaper then NZs return fare but didn't want to risk a tight connection from a late DL arrival.

that's a return ticket not 2 x one ways. NZ codshare on FJ NAN/LAX/NAN flights.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25013 posts, RR: 85
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 15836 times:
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Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 20):
Seems many people stupidly believe that everything online is the cheaper.

I've found that if you book on the airline website, often it is cheaper.

And I never book round trip returns anymore, always 2 x one way, because I don't usually fly back from the same airport I flew to - especially Australia. How boring would that be?

And I get some great one way deals - especially if I avoid SYD.  

matiner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 15802 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
I've found that if you book on the airline website, often it is cheaper.

Yep often this is true, though sometimes it is cheaper to purchase via somewhere like expedia if they have brokered a special bulk rate.

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
And I never book round trip returns anymore, always 2 x one way,

Yep. .lol I have had great fun getting the most interest for my money in the last 24h for my upcoming trips. 27 sectors and counting by doing just that..


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 15800 times:

GDS has CZ bringing the 787 daily on its usual flight from 28 Oct; not just for that seasonal 3x weekly extra service.

[Edited 2013-07-18 01:08:45]


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 37, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 15596 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 33):

Yes NZ do codeshare on FJs services but booking directly on FJs web-site was cheaper then booking the FJ services on NZ. If I had more time for a connecting flight then I would have taken the FJ service. I'm glad I didn't book the flight because the DL flight arrived 2 hours late which resulted in a 20min connection to NZ


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 15606 times:

The first Boeing 787-9 has been rolled out. I believe this aircraft will become ZK-NZE once Boeing has finished with it. Looks much better than the 787-8s IMO.

http://www.seattlepi.com/business/bo...ow/Boeing-787-9-roll-out-66549.php



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 39, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15555 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 38):
Looks much better than the 787-8s IMO.

It just looks like an updated 767-300/-400. Nice to see a 787 without scorch marks though.. 


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 40, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15366 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 19):
Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 18):Also some fares BNE/ZQN/BNE are more expensive than BNE/LAX/BNE.
Well that's what happens when you have supply and demand and only up to three airlines flying a route. Australia - LAX has many options (routes and airlines) while Australia-ZQN doesn't

think what actually happens is like general retail. A certain % of population doesn't care about cost, just convenience.

So these people pay whatever the asking price & don't give it a 2nd thought.

Then the rest care about the dollars & these are those that jump when sale fares happen & are also prepared to go via another ports to save dollars or change dates to save dollars.

Is the 1st group getting smaller ? Possibly ?

Is the 2nd group getting bigger ? Possibly ?

For ZQN it seems, in people minds that they must ski in AUG, not SEP & flights even at start of SEP are much cheaper than even right at end of AUG.


User currently offlineaotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15219 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 38):

I believe this will become ZK-NZC. The first delivery will in fact be ZK-NZE. This will come straight off the production line, as will F and G. C and D will need significant work to remove the kilometres of orange flight test wiring and sensors, prior to having new engines and interiors fitted. I beiieve C and D are not delivered until 2015.


User currently offlinebyronicle6 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 15140 times:

With the delivery of the first 787-9 for NZ expected in July 2014 (to be used on NRT, PVG) which will free up other aircraft. Does this mean that we will see new routes from July 2014? If so, anyone have any inside knowledge of what they are?

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 43, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 15033 times:

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 42):
If so, anyone have any inside knowledge of what they are?

Yes I have a fairly good indication of what is to come.. But I'd never risk my job for the bragging rights of releasing the info.


User currently offlinekeen2fly From New Zealand, joined Jul 2010, 54 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14820 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 40):
Is the 1st group getting smaller ? Possibly ?

I'm not really sure about this one, because New Zealand has an ageing population and a fair amount of the older people here have money to burn as they've gotten hold of their superannuation, pension etc. Many of the retired people I know do quite a substantial amount of travelling and they tend to travel on the specific day that they want, even if the flights are much cheaper a couple of weeks earlier/later. As these super funds have become more popular and as more people retire with more money than ever before I think that there may be still quite a few people belonging to the group that will pay more to travel exactly when and how they want to. I do agree that the 2nd group is expanding, rapidly at that. These cheaper fares have enabled families and individuals that couldn't afford to travel before to go on package holidays for prices that were previously unthinkable. So I think that we could be seeing more of both groups flying, which is a possible explanation as to the more cramped conditions in Air New Zealand's economy class and the more upmarket shift in the two premium products (although the new PE seems not to have worked as they hoped it would).


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14759 times:

IVC is redeveloping its terminal and they'll lose their jetbridge:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-tim...make-airbridge-a-thing-of-the-past

"Everyone would always like to be kept nice and dry but some things aren't realistic."
Just like being called an "International Airport"!



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 46, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14700 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 4):
And It'd be good to operate APW/TBU at Christmas time, there should be just enough space for all the hand carriage..
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 43):
Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 42):
If so, anyone have any inside knowledge of what they are?

Yes I have a fairly good indication of what is to come.. But I'd never risk my job for the bragging rights of releasing the info.

So that will free up 2 x 77E, yes? South America - GRU maybe? Asia - ICN maybe? Or now that the HKG-LHR leg is gone - AKL-SFO-LHR hopefully...



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14623 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 46):
So that will free up 2 x 77E, yes? South America - GRU maybe? Asia - ICN maybe? Or now that the HKG-LHR leg is gone - AKL-SFO-LHR hopefully...

Or Mumbai? Is the recent Airpoints partnership with Jet Airways just a random thing?


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5298 posts, RR: 11
Reply 48, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14530 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 46):
So that will free up 2 x 77E, yes?

Remember the 744s will be gone by around October last I heard anyway, and the 772s will be refitted starting March 2014. Aerorobnz obviously knows more than most of us, but I'm guessing with the 2 77Ws coming aswell we will see something mid-late 2014.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 46):
South America - GRU maybe? Asia - ICN maybe? Or now that the HKG-LHR leg is gone - AKL-SFO-LHR hopefully...

I'm certainly not holding out for another LHR flight, SFO will switch to 77Ws replacing the 744s. I guess the others you mention are possible or maybe

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 47):
Or Mumbai?


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 49, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14520 times:

I still don't see why SFO can't be extended to LHR, especially now that AKL-LAX-LHR is profitable.

The argument against two sector flights is basically crew costs at a remote station. But LHR is a staff base and that argument simply doesn't apply.

They have the rights. They will have 763, 789, 77E and 77W aircraft to cover all sizes of demand. They have the staff base.

Anyone with a computer can see what the fare levels are to Shanghai, Hong Kong and Narita. And we can all see how much higher Air NZ can command fares for AKL-LAX, AKL-SFO, AKL-HNL and LAX-LHR.

HKG-LHR failed in competition with a dominant carrier at the HKG end and two other airlines who dominated the LHR end.

There is no such dominant competition on California-LHR routes.


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2251 posts, RR: 25
Reply 50, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14397 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 14):
I'm surprised too....why isn't OXB in the new livery? The announcement was made in early June....

Even though it may have been unveiled then; the time required to produce proper technical drawings and have Airbus change paint schemes at the last minute is not possible and very costly.

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 14):
Anybody actually know when the next aircraft (first in the fern scheme) is due to emerge, if at all?

The first aircraft will be rolled out mid to late September though I will not reveal which one yet. It is however an existing aircraft within the fleet.

NZ1


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 51, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14347 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 50):
The first aircraft will be rolled out mid to late September though I will not reveal which one yet. It is however an existing aircraft within the fleet.

I'm going to guess it will be a long haul aircraft, so either a 772 or 77W.


User currently offlinebyronicle6 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days ago) and read 14342 times:

I have always though that with the yields NZ is getting on North American routes that an AKL-IAH would work well or DEN/ ORD (especially considering the success QF has had with DFW), but i guess we will have to wait and see what NZ has on their mind

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5298 posts, RR: 11
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days ago) and read 14308 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 51):

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 50):
The first aircraft will be rolled out mid to late September though I will not reveal which one yet. It is however an existing aircraft within the fleet.

I'm going to guess it will be a long haul aircraft, so either a 772 or 77W.

If they paint aircraft that are due to be painted first if there are any that is due i'd say the 772 fleet would be first, then again the new Domestic A320s have already had the black tail applied though and they are only 1-2 years old. Some of the link aircraft maybe due as well. Anyway where will the painting take place on the 777 fleet? CHC for A320s and regional fleet?

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 52):
I have always though that with the yields NZ is getting on North American routes that an AKL-IAH would work well or DEN/ ORD

Those 3 have been the ones talked about and are all UA hubs, there are times of the year where loads inbound particularly are a little light I think, so will NZ add another US destination or continue to add seasonal capacity to HNL/LAX/SFO/YVR?


User currently offlinegardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1520 posts, RR: 1
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 14287 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 45):
IVC is redeveloping its terminal and they'll lose their jetbridge

Wow, an airport actually decommisioning an air bridge?! This must be a first! Intrigued to know if this is the first time this has happened. Most airport "developments" dont take a step backwards like this.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 55, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14208 times:

Fog in CHC.. 2 NZ A320 diversions to AKL that I've seen on FR24. I wonder if it could cause the 747SP to divert to AKL as well if it happened to be flying!


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinePalmyboy12 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14185 times:

Flights have been diverted from CHC due to weather conditions - fog according to CHC airport website

JQ259 AKL-CHC
ETA:2225
Diverted to AKL

NZ804 BNE-CHC
ETA:2250
Diverted to AKL

NZ888 SYD-CHC
ETA:2305
Diverted to AKL

NZ817 NAN-CHC
ETA:0032
Diverted to AKL

JQ151 SYD-CHC
ETA:0045
Diverted to AKL

NZ891 CHC-MEL
ETA:0605
Cancelled due to fog

Another strange thing - when I went onto the CHC airport website (I only found out about fog as I saw NZ804 BNE-CHC halfway up the North Island on Flightradar24 and found it suspicious) VA62 from MEL was shown as having a new arrival time, instead of being diverted or cancelled like the other flights. When I checked it out on Flightradar24, VA62 was the only aircraft (ADS-B capable) in the CHC area, and it is (as of 12:07am) doing circuits halfway between Christchurch and Ashburton. What's going on?

Also, are there really no other airports capable of handling diverted passengers? DUD, WLG (the only other ones with international status) spring to mind, and I guess in a pinch PMR or HLZ would do as well. Or maybe they're all closed....not WLG though?



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlinePalmyboy12 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14175 times:

UPDATE: ZK-PBM has stopped circuiting and seems to be heading northwards (AKL bound, I suppose)



Also in AKL NZ804 from BNE has landed after diverting from CHC, NZ888 from SYD and NZ817 from NAN(having diverted from CHC) are currently being processed, QF133 from MEL has been cancelled and NZ726 from MEL has been delayed by 40 minutes.

Wow, I expect that would be pretty galling to arrive in the dead of night, back home or starting a holiday, only to end up nearly 1000km from where you wanted to be, in an airport like AKL! Compensation would definitely be in order, wouldn't it?



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 58, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14116 times:

The main issue with these diversions is that AKL currently is minus Gate 9 and that on any given morning there is no room for scheduled aircraft, let alone all those diversions

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 57):
QF133 from MEL has been cancelled

That was scheduled in advance not weather related.

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 57):
Wow, I expect that would be pretty galling to arrive in the dead of night, back home or starting a holiday, only to end up nearly 1000km from where you wanted to be, in an airport like AKL! Compensation would definitely be in order, wouldn't it?

No, not really - weather related/airport below limits does not warrant compensation. I'm sure they will have all been booked in a hotel overnight by the airlines.

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 56):
Also, are there really no other airports capable of handling diverted passengers?

AKL has staff 24/7 and it's a main hub, with a crew base. As long as the planes are in Auckland they can swap aircraft, manipulate the schedule and be back in action much faster while minimizing the damage. It also has the happy side effect that there are enough hotels around to take disrupted passengers if necessary.
If you send a crew/aircraft into PMR you will be an aircraft short, until the outbound flight can be operated by the same crew which means they have to be stood down for the rest period rather than just calling a new crew out earlier. There is also no one to handle the passengers, Not ideal at all.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 59, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13957 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 58):
Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 57):Wow, I expect that would be pretty galling to arrive in the dead of night, back home or starting a holiday, only to end up nearly 1000km from where you wanted to be, in an airport like AKL! Compensation would definitely be in order, wouldn't it?No, not really - weather related/airport below limits does not warrant compensation. I'm sure they will have all been booked in a hotel overnight by the airlines.

When one of my CHC-WLG flights was cancelled due to fog NZ put me into a hotel about 2mins drive away with meal vouchers for dinner and breakfast which is basically standard practise here

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 58):
Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 56):Also, are there really no other airports capable of handling diverted passengers?AKL has staff 24/7 and it's a main hub, with a crew base
WLG is an A320 base as the flight crew announce it in their welcome. Diverting to WLG would have been easier and quicker for the next morning's departures if the aircraft is required

[Edited 2013-07-20 17:37:46]

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 60, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13927 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 59):
When one of my CHC-WLG flights was cancelled due to fog NZ put me into a hotel about 2mins drive away with meal vouchers for dinner and breakfast which is basically standard practise here

It still does not make it mandatory...

Quoting 777ER (Reply 59):
WLG is an A320 base as the flight crew announce it in their welcome. Diverting to WLG would have been easier and quicker for the next morning's departures if the aircraft is required

The diversions were all around the time of the WLG runway curfew. It might have made it, but it wasn't worth the risk to find out. AKL wins on all counts in all other respects. It was a far better option to send to AKL. Decisions are based on International crew availability/ability to catch up quicker/rebooking options. It also has more ramp space available at that time of night, WLG already had schedules as follows

NZ842 48 2325
NZ850 46 2335
QF117 49 2359
VA68 47 0025


User currently offlinePalmyboy12 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13916 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 58):

No, not really - weather related/airport below limits does not warrant compensation. I'm sure they will have all been booked in a hotel overnight by the airlines.

Should've probably used a different word there - by compensation I meant hotel stays etc.



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineaerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 797 posts, RR: 3
Reply 62, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13941 times:

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 52):
I have always though that with the yields NZ is getting on North American routes that an AKL-IAH would work well or DEN/ ORD (especially considering the success QF has had with DFW), but i guess we will have to wait and see what NZ has on their mind

ding ding ding... I think we have a winner.
I really hope it is a AKL-IAH flight



What?
User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 63, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13884 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 45):
IVC is redeveloping its terminal and they'll lose their jetbridge:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-tim...make-airbridge-a-thing-of-the-past

"Everyone would always like to be kept nice and dry but some things aren't realistic."
Just like being called an "International Airport"!

this is insane !!!

IVC has lengthened their runway at great expense, to make it attractive for international flights from OZ, as an alternative to ZQN.

ZQN has major problems which can't be solved:-

1) weather esp in winter leading to total airport closures & diversions to DUD
2) daylight only ops, which means only a small window of departure times from OZ for flight to land, turn around & get out of ZQN before sunset (think it's 30 mins before then-VA pilot got into heaps of trouble taking off late not that long ago)
3) ZQN getting very crowded esp on weekends in winter 1200-1600.

Instead of spending $13 million on the terminal, they should underwrite charter flights from OZ.

Very rough numbers but ...

SYD/IVC/SYD around AUD$60K for a 150 seat B737 or A320 & about AUD$70K for BNE/IVC/BNE.

nzd$13 million = ~ AUD$11 million so, that means roughly 84.5 flights from each port, however if only underwritten by 25% that means 338 return flights from each port, over a set period such as 2 years or or 3.25 return flights from each port every week.

The economic benefits to the region would be huge !!!

accommodation, meals, car hire, etc.

+ the NZD$13 would not be a gift but just underwriting, so almost certainly could get funds back probably with a small profit.

We know of a number of cashed up tour operators in OZ, who have seriously looked at IVC for regular charter flights, due maninly to the very high fares to ZQN. Why are fares to ZQN from OZ much higher than other ports ?

ZQN has problems mentioned above, so contingency costs have to be included. Airlines aren't a charity.

Travel agents would support such underwritten flights for a number of reasons:-

1) the commission they currently receive on trans-tasman flights is so low, it's hardly worht the effort
2) because of the low cost nature of charter flights (low overheads) a reasonable commission could be paid to agents &/or a low nett fare could be purchased by agents/tour operators in blocks.

Agents will sell (not just take orders) for seats they "own". Instea dof getting 3-5% commsion on the fare, not inc taxes/charges, they look at fares they own as getting 100% commission. They won't be sending people to Bali instead, if they have seats to IVC to sell, which are VERY perishible.

[Edited 2013-07-20 19:53:51]

TO underwrite only 1 flight a week SYD/IVC to a level of 25% would only cost AUD$780K or around NZD$905k at current exchange rate.

Repeating, this would not be a gift, but rather to make it viable for a tour operator to make it work + locals at IVC would have a vested interest to make it work also.

This can be done with a bit of work, as long as everyone is behind it.

Could even be some cheaper fights to OZ for IVC residents, avoiding the need to drive to DUD. (DUD/OZ flights are almost always much cheaper than ZQN/OZ flights)


[Edited 2013-07-20 20:01:05]

[Edited 2013-07-20 20:15:08]

User currently offlineUnclekoru From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13818 times:

]

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 56):
Also, are there really no other airports capable of handling diverted passengers? DUD, WLG (the only other ones with international status) spring to mind, and I guess in a pinch PMR or HLZ would do as well. Or maybe they're all closed....not WLG though?

As Aerorobnz mentioned, schedule recovery is often easier if the aircraft diverts to AKL, especially for VA and Jetstar who do not have any crew based in Wellington.

That being said, it's often the weather forecast that dictates what airport you can hold as your alternate. International diverts from CHC to WLG are not that uncommon though. PMR used to get the odd one too.



It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
User currently offlinePalmyboy12 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13758 times:

Hi,

I may have heard info from some sources before (like old NZ aviation threads) but I am still unsure about some things regarding NZ's A320 fleet and it would be great if it could be clarified.

Firstly, NZ's own website states that there are 9 A320s remaining to be delivered, all destined for domestic ops and the 171 seat configuration. These A320s would be the sharklet equipped ZK-OX* series, I assume.

Now, were they chosen for domestic ops (instead of replacing the current OJA-OJO series on Tasman-Pacific) because of the increased payload capability (I'm pretty sure the 100 extra miles of range wouldn't matter when NZ is about 600 miles from tip to tip)? I was of the impression wingtip devices like these work better (to increase fuel efficiency) on longer flights....or maybe also with short, but high frequency, domestic flights that are the norm in NZ? I'm sure NZ's dedicated team of fleet planners and bean counters would know a heck of a lot more than I do, but I'm just curious.

I couldn't find much info on Google, especially as it's clogged up with news about the recent sharklet delivery (one TV3 news story said Airbus revealed it's "latest and most fuel efficient aircraft, the A320" at the 2013 Paris Air Show). An airliners.net forum search for "NZ sharklet domestic" found this, from NZ Aviation Thread 79:

Quote:
The sharklet versions are not going to be used on domestic routes. They are for Trans Tasman and Pacific routes with the original 12 320's being transferred to domestic.

Also there are more differences than at first sight between domestic (OAB & OJQ-S) and Taspac A320s, aren't there? I've read that domestic NZ A320s have 171 seats (3 more than the Taspacs apparently due to the lack of a galley) with no seatback IFE and something about MTOW or engine differences which I can't really remember...

Finally, a more trivial question here, but why is ZK-OAB registered OAB? I would've assumed it would be somewhere in the OJ series....

Any answers would be thankfully appreciated,
Palmyboy12



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 66, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 13678 times:

Quoting gardermoen (Reply 54):
Wow, an airport actually decommisioning an air bridge?! This must be a first! Intrigued to know if this is the first time this has happened.

HLZ springs to mind. I think they had an airbridge back in the day...


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 67, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13683 times:

ZK-NGE is currently being stored in Shannon, Ireland. http://bit.ly/18oM7yO

Given the current news, I'm curious as to what size of an earthquake/aftershock justifies closing runways for inspections? Or is that purely up to the judgement of those who run the airports? I hope the latest events haven't inconvenienced anyone.

Quoting aotearoa (Reply 41):
I believe this will become ZK-NZC. The first delivery will in fact be ZK-NZE. This will come straight off the production line, as will F and G. C and D will need significant work to remove the kilometres of orange flight test wiring and sensors, prior to having new engines and interiors fitted. I beiieve C and D are not delivered until 2015.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew that ZB001 wouldn't be the first delivered, but was unsure of the sequence.

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 65):
Also there are more differences than at first sight between domestic (OAB & OJQ-S) and Taspac A320s, aren't there?

Tasman A320s MTOW = 77 t
Domestic A320s MTOW = 71.5 t (mtows can be changed easily enough, however doing so involves giving money to Airbus/Boeing and lots of paperwork)

Tasman A320s = ETOPS (can't remember the time)
Domestic A320s = No ETOPS

Tasman A320s = Seatback IFE http://bit.ly/1b3AdyT
Domestic A320s = Fold Down IFE http://bit.ly/1bBeg9I

There are some Avionics differences too. Domestic A320s have no Satcom or HF radio (which, as one member here explained recently, is why the domestic A320s fly in convoy across the Tasman with other aircraft on their delivery flight). Domestic A320s have a different version of TCAS (more sensitive, I assume?). The GPWS has been adapted in some way for Queenstown (I assume that means making it less sensitive?). The FMGC has been changed (I think these are updates for all newer A320s, not just specific to certain airlines that want them).

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 65):
Finally, a more trivial question here, but why is ZK-OAB registered OAB? I would've assumed it would be somewhere in the OJ series....
AB = All Blacks. The ZK-OJP registration has remained unused, so once ZK-OAB gets painted back into the standard livery (probably quite a few years away), one would assume that it will become ZK-OJP.

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 65):
Now, were they chosen for domestic ops (instead of replacing the current OJA-OJO series on Tasman-Pacific) because of the increased payload capability (I'm pretty sure the 100 extra miles of range wouldn't matter when NZ is about 600 miles from tip to tip)?

Someone mentioned here that the price of refitting the cabins (making Tasman A320s into domestic A320s) would outweigh the savings brought by the sharklets. For all we know, Air New Zealand could decide sometime to retrofit Sharklets to the Tasman A320s. It would involve a bit of additional wing strengthening, but I'm sure the good folks at ANZES could do that if required.

[Edited 2013-07-20 23:29:44]


Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlineWSTAKL From New Zealand, joined Jun 2011, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13647 times:

Looks like a few diversions due to the earthquake in the lower north island. JQ261 AKL-WLG carried on to CHC. NZ459 turned around and went back to AKL. Interesting that a NZ flight did land (after circling) but heard on the news WLG is closed 'indefinitely'

User currently offlinedeconz From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13610 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 63):
IVC has lengthened their runway at great expense, to make it attractive for international flights from OZ, as an alternative to ZQN.

In fact the runway was lengthened many many years ago as IVC is a backup airport for operation Deep Freeze. Nothing whatsoever to do with flights to/from OZ.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 70, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13591 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 60):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 59):When one of my CHC-WLG flights was cancelled due to fog NZ put me into a hotel about 2mins drive away with meal vouchers for dinner and breakfast which is basically standard practise hereIt still does not make it mandatory...

No but its basically what airlines do anyway.

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 63):

How is it insane? IVC will never be an international airport as it doesn't have processing staff. Staff can come, but from either ZQN or DUD. IVC is being used by NZs ZQN Tasman flights this winter as a diversion for fuel ONLY with passengers remaining on board

Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 68):
WLG is closed 'indefinitely'

Apparently due to damaged navigation equipment but WIAL's arrival/departures still shows flights. PMR have taken several bigger aircraft with BHE taking a Timaru service


User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4274 posts, RR: 52
Reply 71, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13545 times:

Not much disruption at WLG. But that 6.5 sucked. The 5.8 this morning and 5.5 on Friday were bad enough. Glass throughout the CBD, especially on Lambton and Featherston. My work suffered a decent amount of interior damage. Not pretty.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 72, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13419 times:

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 56):
NZ891 CHC-MEL
ETA:0605
Cancelled due to fog

This flight's aircraft positioned to MEL with pilots and cabin crew at STD0700 to operate the return MEL-CHC sector which still operated. That was basically possible only because the aircraft diverted to AKL.


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 73, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13073 times:

Quoting deconz (Reply 69):
Nothing whatsoever to do with flights to/from OZ.

someone was appointed by IVC to get flighs from OZ.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 70):
Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 63):


How is it insane? IVC will never be an international airport as it doesn't have processing staff. Staff can come, but from either ZQN or DUD. IVC is being used by NZs ZQN Tasman flights this winter as a diversion for fuel ONLY with passengers remaining on board

It's insane as backward step. Who wants to get wet & fortlifts are very time comsuming & slow for handicapped.

IVC will of course become int, it's just when. ZQN has too many issues. Don't think runway can be extended at all. Already some aircraft are diverted to IVC for fuel.

Don't think anything bigger than an A320 or B738 can get in & out of ZQN with a ful load, so moving to a A321 or B739 is not really a possibility.

IVC is much closer by road than DUD & is basically straight whereas DUD-ZQN road is very windy & slow.

A few years back DJ told IVC they would be flying into IVC with 737's. Then IVC manager flew to BNE for big DJ function, but something literally happened while he was in transit & DJ changed their mind & think DUD got sevices instead.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 74, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 12971 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 73):
someone was appointed by IVC to get flighs from OZ.
Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 73):
IVC will of course become int, it's just when. ZQN has too many issues.

The only people I've ever encountered who think this are on A.net. There is yourself, and previously there was a poster called Simpilicity and a poster called REALDEAL.

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 73):
A few years back DJ told IVC they would be flying into IVC with 737's. Then IVC manager flew to BNE for big DJ function, but something literally happened while he was in transit & DJ changed their mind & think DUD got sevices instead.

An attack of common sense, perhaps?

Dunedin is a university city of 130,000 people. It is blighted by a Scottish climate, which is why it has Trans-Tasman links (for the residents to get out) and a busy domestic market (due to the mobility of the academic population and the deterioration of rail links).

Invercargill is a remote and isolated town of 50,000 people with minimal mobility.

I'm staggered that you would consider IVC to be more suitable than DUD for international air services.


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 75, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12838 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 74):
I'm staggered that you would consider IVC to be more suitable than DUD for international air services.

IVC is back door into ZQN so majority of traffic is inbound into NZ not outbound to OZ.

Road from DUD to ZQN is about 4 hours drive, windy, up hill & down dale. Road IVC to ZQN is just over 2 hours & relatively straight & flat.

Was in a car once & did it in 90 minutes speeding. I wasn't driving.

ZQN has capacity problem in afternoons which is why VA have flights out of BNE at 0545, just so they can get a slot in ZQN, as 1200 to 1600 flights from BNE, SYD.MEL jam the place, let alone domestics from AKL, CHC, WLG.

No one wants to get up at 0300 to be at airport by 0430 on holidays.

No one wants to have to go via AKL, CHC or WLG, overnight, to then waste anohter day getting to ZQN.

Not sure what result of case of VA pilot taking off close to dusk recently, but he was obviously under pressure to not have the aircraft stuck in ZQN overnight, with up to 180 passengers.

Was told that back around 1996 Ernst & Young did a study on BNE/IVC/BNE & looked viable. The Air Nauru 734 was going to be used, but then pressure was applied to stop Air Nauru doing it. Since then have been various attempts, while at same time ZQN nonstops form Australia have increased dramatically.

Someone even suggested recently doing night flights from Australia to ZQN. Not sure how that would work.

Because of all the extra costs involved with flying into ZQN (mainly the contingency costs when airport closes) many Australians say too hard & don't go & NZ misses out on revenue.

It appears there is pelnty of accommodation available for whole of August in Queenstown, so Queenstown obviously still needs more flights, perhaps some cheaper seats will help fill the place.

Some people still drive from CHC to ZQN but a long haul & that basically takes out 2 days of their holiday.

Not many families will pay AUD$1000 or more per adult to fly to ZQN return, when they can fly to LAX for same amount.

[Edited 2013-07-21 21:34:52]

User currently offlinedavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1634 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12836 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 74):
The only people I've ever encountered who think this are on A.net. There is yourself, and previously there was a poster called Simpilicity and a poster called REALDEAL

. . . and don't forget ECONOMICS!



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 77, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 12847 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 75):
Not many families will pay AUD$1000 or more per adult to fly to ZQN return, when they can fly to LAX for same amount.

I do agree with that, but skiing is pretty much a niche market - and an expensive one - everywhere.

I fall precisely into the demographic to which you are referring. Every year I consider taking my kids to Queenstown during the July or September school holidays. And every year I conclude that I'd rather go to southern California, and I find Premium Economy fares for less than $3000, but the cost of everything in California is so much cheaper than Australia or New Zealand that the holiday pays its way. Getting away from winter helps, too.

And to be brutally frank, the option to save $300 on airfares and route via IVC would be no attraction - it would just repel me further.

Really, from Australia Queenstown is only going to be a niche destination for couples and singles.


User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 12828 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 75):
Road from DUD to ZQN is about 4 hours drive, windy, up hill & down dale. Road IVC to ZQN is just over 2 hours & relatively straight & flat.

You find the IVC-ZQN drive appealing? I did it once and never would do it again.

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 75):

No one wants to get up at 0300 to be at airport by 0430 on holidays.

Nor do people want to start / end there holiday in IVC

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 75):

Not many families will pay AUD$1000 or more per adult to fly to ZQN return, when they can fly to LAX for same amount.

You have to remember that ZQN is not a budget market, its a play around for the rich. The last thing ZQN needs is a influx of low-yeilding Aussies.


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 79, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 12817 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 78):
Premium Economy fares for less than $3000

that's economy not PE (at least not on NZ which is closer to AUD$4k) & yes you can get to LAX for under $3k in economy, but you have to go to Utah or Colorado or Canada to get reliable snow.

Many families do go to ZQN from Australia. School holidays are always going to be tricky, as it only takes a few schools fill up school holidays flights.

So many families go outside of school holidays, at least in 1 direction, or Brisbanites go in Ekka Week in mid Aug, when many people turn a Wed public holiday into a whole week off. Many school kids only have 2 or 3 days that week, due to sports days.

Skiing is not expensive unless you want it to be.

There's expensive accommodation everywhere if you want to pay for it.

You can stay at new Hilton in ZQN for AUD$128/room night which can sleep up to 3 based on 7 night stay(all season long).

We got a deal thruough an agent which included breakfast everyday & a NZD$50 tab per stay, useable at any bar/restaurant at Hilton.

Last year the same was under AUD$100 for same.

You can stay in good spacious 3 star condo on snow accommodation in Colorado for under AUD$100/night/adult including lift tickets.

Know of many families who pick up cheap return fares to LAX from Australia for AUD$1000-$1700/adult & less for kids by being flexible with dates.

To get $1000 fare in DEC you must book early & depart early DEC.

Obviously $1700 fares have a lot more date flexibility & saw some just recently departing late DEC & coming back well before school starst back in late JAN.

They then use ff points or miles to get to Canada, Utah or Colorado or cheap fares on the likes of Southwest (who don't fly to Canada but SEA is close-haven't driven it lately but about 3 hours SEA to YVR by road from memory)


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 80, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 12800 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 73):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 70):Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 63):How is it insane? IVC will never be an international airport as it doesn't have processing staff. Staff can come, but from either ZQN or DUD. IVC is being used by NZs ZQN Tasman flights this winter as a diversion for fuel ONLY with passengers remaining on boardIt's insane as backward step. Who wants to get wet & fortlifts are very time comsuming & slow for handicapped.IVC will of course become int, it's just when. ZQN has too many issues. Don't think runway can be extended at all. Already some aircraft are diverted to IVC for fuel.

Is soo sad when passengers fly in/out of a REGIONAL only airport have to walk onto the tarmac to board/disembark an aircraft and even more sad when its raining or freezing wind like IVC gets during the winter! IVC is a regional airport with a regional population that won't be able to ever support an International service. IVCs only chance at international is when ATR or Bombardier introduce a turbo-prop that's able to fly that distance, because lets face it, that's the only type of plane IVC can currently support on domestic services. If they could support jet services then they would have jet services. As I already said those NZ A320s (only NZ at this stage) that use IVC for fuel diversions is ONLY for fuel. Passengers aren't allowed off. Just because it has a runway able to handle A320 size doesn't mean it has the population to handle it.

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 73):
Quoting deconz (Reply 69):Nothing whatsoever to do with flights to/from OZ.someone was appointed by IVC to get flighs from OZ.

A classic example of small town syndrome and trying to play with the big boys

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 75):
ZQN has capacity problem in afternoons which is why VA have flights out of BNE at 0545, just so they can get a slot in ZQN, as 1200 to 1600 flights from BNE, SYD.MEL jam the place, let alone domestics from AKL, CHC, WLG.No one wants to get up at 0300 to be at airport by 0430 on holidays.

Well if people need to then they will do it. If I need to be in Australia in the morning then I fly on the 6am services. For me those services mean I need to get up around 3am to get to the airport due to where I live

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 75):
Not sure what result of case of VA pilot taking off close to dusk recently, but he was obviously under pressure to not have the aircraft stuck in ZQN overnight, with up to 180 passengers.

Pilot was found guilty, fined and banned from flying into/out of ZQN

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 75):
Not many families will pay AUD$1000 or more per adult to fly to ZQN return, when they can fly to LAX for same amount.

Well not everyone wants to fly to the USA just to go skiing. Why fly for 14+ hours from Australia when you can fly for 3-4 hours to ZQN and have more fun for longer when compared to flying to the USA?


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 81, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 12775 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 81):
Well not everyone wants to fly to the USA just to go skiing. Why fly for 14+ hours from Australia when you can fly for 3-4 hours to ZQN and have more fun for longer when compared to flying to the USA?

hard to compare apples with apples, as virtually no ons nwo accom in NZ apart from club lodges & a handful of apartments at Cardrona.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 81):
IVCs only chance at international is when ATR or Bombardier introduce a turbo-prop that's able to fly that distance, because lets face it, that's the only type of plane IVC can currently support on domestic services. If they could support jet services then they would have jet services.

See this is where you are wrong. Doesn't have to have high frequeny. Could be as little as one flight a week, in fact tour operators/hotels/car hire co. love 7 night packages as easy.

They just need to turn eveyrhting around fast, ie the rooms, the cars.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 81):
ZQN has capacity problem in afternoons which is why VA have flights out of BNE at 0545, just so they can get a slot in ZQN, as 1200 to 1600 flights from BNE, SYD.MEL jam the place, let alone domestics from AKL, CHC, WLG.No one wants to get up at 0300 to be at airport by 0430 on holidays.

Well if people need to then they will do it. If I need to be in Australia in the morning then I fly on the 6am services. For me those services mean I need to get up around 3am to get to the airport due to where I live

But that's just it. If you suggested to a family that they had to be at airport at 4.30am just to get a flight to NZ, most would say 2 words & the 1st starts with F & 2nd starts with O.


User currently offlinedeconz From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 12730 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 73):
Quoting deconz (Reply 69):
Nothing whatsoever to do with flights to/from OZ.

someone was appointed by IVC to get flighs from OZ.

That might well be true. However, as I recall you used this as the REASON for the runway extension which was not the case!


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8761 posts, RR: 5
Reply 83, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 12738 times:
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For the NW2013 high season, LAN will operate the SCL-AKL-SYD route on a daily basis.
Source: amadeus.net


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 84, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12671 times:

Quoting deconz (Reply 83):
That might well be true. However, as I recall you used this as the REASON for the runway extension which was not the case!

fair enough. The local mayor may have implied this as another reason why it should be extended.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 85, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12661 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 82):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 81):Well not everyone wants to fly to the USA just to go skiing. Why fly for 14+ hours from Australia when you can fly for 3-4 hours to ZQN and have more fun for longer when compared to flying to the USA?hard to compare apples with apples, as virtually no ons nwo accom in NZ apart from club lodges & a handful of apartments at Cardrona.

Why stay at Cardrona? What is so wrong with staying in Queenstown or Wanaka at a hotel or even a motel?

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 82):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 81):IVCs only chance at international is when ATR or Bombardier introduce a turbo-prop that's able to fly that distance, because lets face it, that's the only type of plane IVC can currently support on domestic services. If they could support jet services then they would have jet services. See this is where you are wrong. Doesn't have to have high frequeny. Could be as little as one flight a week, in fact tour operators/hotels/car hire co. love 7 night packages as easy.They just need to turn eveyrhting around fast, ie the rooms, the cars.

No I believe I'm actually correct as I'm looking at it from a population view point and nearest International airports! Just take a look at Palmerston North. PMR use to have SJ to MEL, SYD and BNE with B733s before NZ took over with A320s. Loads were always not that good. Yes PMR is a student city but that didn't help with loads as PMR isn't really a start/end destination (just like IVC). The only market it served was the local/surrounding areas (more population catchment then IVC would have). Only problem for PMR was WLG being two hours drive away with cheaper fares. Another example is HLZ. Use to have Kiwi Air and SJ. Same situation as PMR as AKL was near by with more airlines and even cheaper fares. HLZ has the same type of population catchment. DJ even tried but have now pulled out. CHC or DUD flight options/tour options can give the same type of 7 day tour packages and possibly even cheaper then IVC. Once a week Australian service from IVC?!?! That will NEVER happen. Customs/MAF staff would need to travel from DUD once a week which would add to the ticket price and oh what a fantastic way for an international expansion to work. International can't use the domestic area for security reasons and especially when a domestic flight is there.

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 82):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 81):ZQN has capacity problem in afternoons which is why VA have flights out of BNE at 0545, just so they can get a slot in ZQN, as 1200 to 1600 flights from BNE, SYD.MEL jam the place, let alone domestics from AKL, CHC, WLG.No one wants to get up at 0300 to be at airport by 0430 on holidays.Well if people need to then they will do it. If I need to be in Australia in the morning then I fly on the 6am services. For me those services mean I need to get up around 3am to get to the airport due to where I liveBut that's just it. If you suggested to a family that they had to be at airport at 4.30am just to get a flight to NZ, most would say 2 words & the 1st starts with F & 2nd starts with O.

Well the same could be said for the afternoon Australian departures with arrivals into New Zealand from 11pm onwards. Family's frequently catch that service even if the arrival time destroys their child's sleep. The same could also be said for Australian morning departures to New Zealand. If it needs to be done then Family's will do it!


User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 86, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12664 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 80):
Skiing is not expensive unless you want it to be.

I dunno man. There's a reason we used to go 'sledging' on open home signs we 'found' when going to the snow. The hire costs for skis, sledges, snowboards and even toboggans (which are pretty much plastic discs) is horrendous.
Probably cheaper to buy a skate board from the warehouse and take the trucks off it, then foot the medical bill for it breaking while using it as a snow board  

As for IVC-ZQN, I wouldn't do it. Seems pointless to go that way. Rather go to ZQN itself, and no I'm not rich.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 87, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12657 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 85):

Just because a runway extension is done, does it mean an International service will happen? Lets look at Napier/Hastings Airport! They have extended their runway with the hope of gaining international services. Does Napier/Hastings have a chance of international services as a result of a longer runway? No but IMHO they have a 100% better chance of gaining Australian services compared to IVC due to their tourism and wine industry's. IVC is a cold miserable place during the winter months with freezing nights and a low income range. I would rather spend time in Queenstown compared to Invercargill.

Napier-Hastings's nearest international airport by road is WLG (5 hours drive non-stop) with both AKL and WLG easily accessed via air in less then 1 hour. Just because IVC is close to Queenstown doesn't mean it will get services when ZQN serves the region well


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2684 posts, RR: 4
Reply 88, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12640 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 63):
this is insane !!!

I actually agree, but not for the reasons you state.

Having used IVC a lot in my early years, the inclement weather certainty made the airbridge appealing and it did lessen the blow of switching from jets to the ATRs. I suppose there is a cost consideration for IVC in maintenance but airbridges are pretty standard across many European and US airports to cope with inclement weather.

International at IVC isn't happening, ever. Unless oil is discovered/developed nearby sometime soon.

What's more concerning is that the Chairman of IVC doesn't actually know how many times per day the airbridge is used (note: every ATR flight). Amateur. No doubt appointed care of the local old boy's network.


User currently offlineHLZCPH From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12268 times:

Quoting gardermoen (Reply 54):
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 45):
IVC is redeveloping its terminal and they'll lose their jetbridge

Wow, an airport actually decommisioning an air bridge?! This must be a first! Intrigued to know if this is the first time this has happened. Most airport "developments" dont take a step backwards like this.

HLZ had an air bridge years ago. Story is that it was owned by Air NZ and when the B732's stopped coming the air bridge went too. They are over rated IMHO, a walk across the tarmac is much more interesting.  
Fog issue in AKL yesterday must have caused a little backlog? 2 x B1900's headed north from here 1.30 - 2pm. Don't normally see 2 going the same way within a short timeframe.



July, AKL-SFO-LAS-SFO-AKL. last ride in the NZ 744?
User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 90, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12204 times:

ATRs got aerobridges at Dunedin during the early days. It was a very long aerobridge, so the 737 did not need a tug to push back - it just turned on the spot to leave the gate. I thought the ATR used the aerobridge so that people would not realise they were not flying a jet.
I think both the ATR and the Dash 8 have fiddly stairs to walk up. It would be nice if we could have covered ramps as Horizon have at some ports in their network. It would be good for wheelchair passengers.


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 91, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12091 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 85):
Yes PMR is a student city but that didn't help with loads as PMR isn't really a start/end destination (just like IVC).

Students have relatively no money & are very seasonal (their holidays)

Quoting 777ER (Reply 85):
CHC or DUD flight options/tour options can give the same type of 7 day tour packages and possibly even cheaper then IVC. Once a week Australian service from IVC?!?! That will NEVER happen. Customs/MAF staff would need to travel from DUD once a week which would add to the ticket price and oh what a fantastic way for an international expansion to work. International can't use the domestic area for security reasons and especially when a domestic flight is there.

Hev you actually driven from CHC or DUD to ZQN ?

CHC is a long drive-prob 6 hours pushing it or longer & can't do it at night in winter as risk black ice. Road from DUD is slow & windy. It took at just over 3.5 hours last time we did it & we were pushing it in a Tarago. We all agreed we would't do that drive again (until next time when fares to DUD where $300+ cheaper per person than ZQN x 10 people).

That's $3000 dollars (AUD$ not NZD$)

Road from IVC to ZQN is much faster (look out of those sheep on the road once you get near Lake Wakatipu.

Never is a very VERY long time !!!

Customs-have been told they can come from port in invercargill.

Lots of business interests in IVC obviously want to see IVC get int flights.

What will it take ?

Probably a few groups need to get together & put us a few dollars. AUD$60k for a return flight from SYD is not that much, when could bring 150 cash up Aussies each time.

Just say this averaged out to AUD$600 return SYD/IVC/SYD or AUD$666 including a car for a week on twin share basis.

Compare this to the AUD$1k airfare only that some, but not many people have to pay to fly to ZQN from BNE.

Families won't pay $1k per head. Queenstown needs families.


Some research also indicates that some ZQN locals actually drive to DUD to save $$$ on airfares to Australia.

With IVC being something like 90 minutes closer by road, then it could also pick up this traffic, assuming fares DUD/OZ & IVC/OZ were around same figure. Even if low yield, it all helps fiill & pay for flights.

Int pax can use a hangar.

Just heard that NZ is retiring whole 733 fleet by 2015. Apparently they can't sell them for anything above scrap value.

Wonder if any of these aircraft could be used ? Obviously they would want to operate them with NZ AOC for lots of reasons.

Does Freedom Air AOC still exist ?

If so, then could have a separate airline to protect main routes.

Eg. NZ/VA int routes to ZQN for those with unlimited funds. IVC as a low cost operation.

You'd think JQ would be looking at BNE, SYD & MEL(or AVV rather than MEL) to places like IVC.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 92, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12062 times:

Does Queenstown actually want LCC customers or families?

Each time I have been it has appeared to target three markets:

1) Affluent couples with no kids,
2) long-stay backpackers who will jet boat or bungee jump.
3) Older couples playing golf or fishing.

If the place is taken over by Aussie bogans and their brats then groups 1 and 3 will move elsewhere.


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 93, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12040 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 91):
Students have relatively no money & are very seasonal (their holidays)

Seasonal, yes. No money, no. Don't forget there are plenty of international students out there who travel back to their country each year and most of them do take a visit to Australia at some stage during their stay.


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 94, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12037 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 92):
Does Queenstown actually want LCC customers or families?

Each time I have been it has appeared to target three markets:

1) Affluent couples with no kids,
2) long-stay backpackers who will jet boat or bungee jump.
3) Older couples playing golf or fishing.

If the place is taken over by Aussie bogans and their brats then groups 1 and 3 will move elsewhere.

Don't think you get it.

Queenstown needs all market segments, ie everyone it can get. Acommodation supply far exceeds the flights that operate now.

If in doubt put in almost any date on some accommodation search engine, such as www.graysescape.com & enormous number of option come up, which should tell you something.

I thought all the bogans lived on the Gold Coast !!! JQ tried OOL/ZQN flights 2 years ago, twcie a week & was a total disaster. Think JQ thought BNE pax would drive to OOL to save $$$.

Any resort who actively discourages families are nuts. Families have money, just maybe not as much as Dinks.

Funny you mention backpackers. I would assume that a family of 6 would spend far more than 6 backpackers, who would imagine don't have lots to spend, but want to find work in ZQN.

Anyway, just imagine a family member goes into a travel agency or check online & find that ZQN air alone costs close to $1k/person & LAX is just over that, many would go to LAX.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 95, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12003 times:

If anyone wants to spot OXB on it's first day of service...
NZ 504 CHC AKL 0650-29 0810-29
NZ 509 AKL CHC 0910 1030
NZ 510 CHC AKL 1105 1225
NZ 527 AKL CHC 1300 1420
NZ 520 CHC AKL 1505 1625
NZ 451 AKL WLG 1700 1800
NZ 474 WLG AKL 1835 1935
NZ 559 AKL CHC 2045 2205


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2684 posts, RR: 4
Reply 96, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11955 times:

I'm pretty loathe to join this ZQN argument because we've thrashed this out so many times before with ECONOMICS, RealDeal, Simplicity etc etc. Tiring.

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 94):
Don't think you get it.

I think koruman summed it up pretty well actually and you appear to be willingly ignoring the strategy for ZQN tourism. Fine if you think it's the wrong one, but you have to admit it's gone pretty well so far.

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 94):
Funny you mention backpackers. I would assume that a family of 6 would spend far more than 6 backpackers, who would imagine don't have lots to spend, but want to find work in ZQN.

Funny you miss the part where backpackers provide the labour to enable Queenstown and surround to do what they do best.

Please can this just end now? I guess it's pretty quiet in New Zealand aviation at the moment.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 97, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11937 times:

Of course Queenstown room numbers exceed airline seats.

There are these two pretty big cities called Christchurch and Dunedin. Their residents have been known to take a long weekend (or longer) in Queenstown or Wanaka.


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1240 posts, RR: 6
Reply 98, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11906 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 96):

Funny you miss the part where backpackers provide the labour to enable Queenstown and surround to do what they do best.

Not sure i agree with that. Stayed at both the Hilton and Novotel in Queenstown over the last few months. And staff is horrible. Its the British backpackers that get hired and these are the same types we see down in the Mediterranean every year. No clue about service or manners.
Hilton is a joke in regards to the human resources in Queenstown and I seriously wonder if the GM/HR is one of those thats scared about hiring anything that isnt a mirror image of himself and thus sacrifices quality for familiarity.


Why IVC are removing their jetbridges is beyond me though. Makes no sense at all. They want investments in Southland and then its probably time they start investing in making the region more appealing.
Plowing down money in a bottomless moneypit called Southland rugby is never questioned but airbridges at the airport them they dispose of...?
Priorities...

Invercargill and international flights. I dont mind mister simplicity, realdeal etc but pls dont go there again.
That horse has been beaten to death and there is not enough demand nor interest.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11864 times:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 98):
Why IVC are removing their jetbridges is beyond me though. Makes no sense at all. They want investments in Southland and then its probably time they start investing in making the region more appealing.
Plowing down money in a bottomless moneypit called Southland rugby is never questioned but airbridges at the airport them they dispose of...?
Priorities...

Air New Zealand owns the airbridges, and they are not willing to put the money into have it apart of the new Terminal. Same happens with HLZ when the airport had an upgrade NZ chose to remove it.


User currently offlineSYDAIRPORTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 100, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11802 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 97):
Of course Queenstown room numbers exceed airline seats.

There are these two pretty big cities called Christchurch and Dunedin. Their residents have been known to take a long weekend (or longer) in Queenstown or Wanaka.

yes but by a long way & weekenders only account for 1 or 2 nights a week. They have to fill Sun-Thu nights.

During the massive building boom a few years back apartments etc. where going up fast.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 98):
Why IVC are removing their jetbridges is beyond me though. Makes no sense at all. They want investments in Southland and then its probably time they start investing in making the region more appealing.
Plowing down money in a bottomless moneypit called Southland rugby is never questioned but airbridges at the airport them they dispose of...?

yes seem crazy to spend $13 m & at same time get rid of airbridges. You'd think a 2nd airbridge would be the way to go.

There must have been instances when 2 aircraft arrive close together in bad weather & 2nd to land has to wait to use airbridge.

Have seen in the U.S. a form of airbridge that works with a single story building. It looked like a giant vacuum hose & had a ramp which wasn't very steep. Was designed for smaller jets, but that design could easily be modified & wouldn't cost a lot.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 98):
That horse has been beaten to death and there is not enough demand nor interest.

No way, it''s just getting interesting.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 99):
Air New Zealand owns the airbridges, and they are not willing to put the money into have it apart of the new Terminal. Same happens with HLZ when the airport had an upgrade NZ chose to remove it.

So how much is a removed airbridge worth ? Not very much, I'd guess.

[Edited 2013-07-22 23:44:08]

User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 101, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 11745 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 100):
You'd think a 2nd airbridge would be the way to go.

There must have been instances when 2 aircraft arrive close together in bad weather & 2nd to land has to wait to use airbridge.

Nah you'd think 1 airbridge is already too much. No jets operate into IVC and just like in any other port in NZ the turboprops are more than capable of using stairs, rain or shine. If 2 aircraft land at the same time, 1 will use stairs instead of waiting for an airbridge.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5298 posts, RR: 11
Reply 102, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days ago) and read 11650 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 83):
For the NW2013 high season, LAN will operate the SCL-AKL-SYD route on a daily basis.
Source: amadeus.net

During January only from what I can see.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 103, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11235 times:

This has been going around pilot circles very recently but hasn't reached here yet.
http://www.caa.gen.nz/?p=3133

Quote:
A submission has been made by Price Waterhouse Coopers on behalf of Air New Zealand to add “Aeroplane Pilot” as a group which has skill shortages and which cannot be filled by NZ pilots. If it is accepted that there is a deficit of skilled pilots within New Zealand, this will give the Air New Zealand Group the option to hire foreigners. Astonishingly, The Price Waterhouse Coopers submission states: “National data on people available to work or train suggests that there are 8 (eight) suitable job seekers available to fill vacancies within this occupation”.

Data is woefully deficient if they think that, in the entire country, there are somehow only eight appropriate candidates available to fill pilot vacancies at Air New Zealand. I know many people who are at (or around) the instructor level that are working tooth and nail to build up the hours required to get an interview at Eagle Air or Air Nelson. The ones who are instructors are the lucky ones of course, as instructing jobs are scarce enough.

There are loads of young (and not so young) pilots in New Zealand who get their licences but are driven out of the aviation industry or overseas by the lack of entry level flying jobs and the underlying need to pay off student debt. The gap between getting one's cpl and having enough hours to apply to Eagle Air is difficult to bridge. As I see it, this change is going to make things substantially more difficult for those trying to do so. I hope NZALPA can get this stopped.

What do people here think about this?

[Edited 2013-07-23 23:20:45]


Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 104, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11161 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 104):

I just wished NZ had a cadetship programme like many overseas airlines.. I might be a pilot now if there was such a programme..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 105, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11136 times:

Just to put Invercargill Airport's busyness into perspective, here our today's passenger departures:

0630: WLG (DH3)
0650: CHC (DH3)
1040: CHC (ATR72)
1145: CHC (ATR72)
1400: CHC (ATR72)
1640: CHC (DH3)
1815: CHC (ATR72)

SYDAIRPORTS' business plan for a second airbridge seems rather ambitious.

In fact, my own one-man delusion of A320 services AKL-RAR-BOB seems considerably more realistic, and everyone apart from me recognises that that is sheer insanity!

[Edited 2013-07-23 23:58:43]

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 106, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11092 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting zkojq (Reply 104):
What do people here think about this?

I think its a sad fact that NZ now needs to look overseas for pilots and it could easily get worse for any airlines (JQ, QF included).

My 22 year old brother is about to return to training to fly with a flying school after giving it up several years ago when the main flying school at WLG closed. He is currently sitting some exams to enable him entry. His course will take two years and once he finishes he will also be a qualified instructor. He was talking to me a few weeks back about the costs and I'm really not surprised its hard to find pilots with the costs involved.

Quoting koruman (Reply 106):
one-man delusion of A320 services AKL-RAR-BOB seems considerably more realistic, and everyone apart from me recognises that that is sheer insanity!

Something like UA's Micronesia route with multiple stops between GUM and HNL would be fantastic but sadly I can't see NZ re-instating the Coral Route with A320s. If ATR's could do it with more seats (ATR92 series?) then maybe NZ would look at it


User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11105 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 100):
So how much is a removed airbridge worth ? Not very much, I'd guess.

If anything NZ is likely just to relocate it to another airport, there domestic A320/737 gates are WLG and AKL are both are about to be expanded.

In AKL NZ only has 3 air bridges for A320/737s and 3 stair gates, they often have 6 jets on the ground at once in AKL.


User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 108, posted (1 year 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 10891 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 104):
What do people here think about this?

Saw that too, all I can say is I know more than 8 personally who heavily exceed the Part 121 min requirements and have no call for interview. Don't know where they got that number from


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 109, posted (1 year 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 10863 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting zkncj (Reply 108):
In AKL NZ only has 3 air bridges for A320/737s and 3 stair gates

3 air bridges in AKL? I counted 6 NZ domestic air bridges last month and 2 or 3 stair gates on the ground floor. Was a nice change boarding via the ex Pacific Blue gate so much that I had forgotten where the gate was and had to refer to the overhead signs/directions. I'm use to boarding via an air bridge!


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2684 posts, RR: 4
Reply 110, posted (1 year 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 10840 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 104):
Data is woefully deficient if they think that,

I think it's probably nonsense. NZ is probably just trying to import foreign pilots that already have the hours so they don't have to train up lesser-houred pilots.

Until fairly recently, New Zealand was despised for its factory like approach for churning out pilots, as students were able to dump the whole cost onto their student loans. NZ's just trying to pass the buck here. And frankly, given the stagnation in the size of the fleet over recent years, I'm not sure why it's suddenly considered a problem now.

If there really is a shortage, they could always just pay more or improve conditions, thereby attracting pilots to the industry. But then, that will cost more. Far easier to plead a market failure in the supply of pilots.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 111, posted (1 year 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10810 times:

With all this hype about IVC getting a make over so to speak can we at least get a decent website! the one that is on offer is pretty rubbish to say. http://www.invercargillairport.co.nz/ (the airport is just a bit of runway and plenty of farmland hahha)

Mind you I haven't flown down to IVC since late 2006, has anything really changed..! ?



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 112, posted (1 year 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 10744 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 109):

3 air bridges in AKL? I counted 6 NZ domestic air bridges last month and 2 or 3 stair gates on the ground floor. Was a nice change boarding via the ex Pacific Blue gate so much that I had forgotten where the gate was and had to refer to the overhead signs/directions. I'm use to boarding via an air bridge!

While there are 6 airbridges at AKL Domestic, NZ only gets to use 3 of them and the other 3 are solely used by JQ.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2684 posts, RR: 4
Reply 113, posted (1 year 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 10614 times:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 112):
While there are 6 airbridges at AKL Domestic, NZ only gets to use 3 of them and the other 3 are solely used by JQ.

I thought there were at least 4 NZ domestic airbridges. In fact, yes, there are.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 111):
Mind you I haven't flown down to IVC since late 2006, has anything really changed..!

Nothing ever changes in IVC. Nothing.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 114, posted (1 year 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 10620 times:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 112):
While there are 6 airbridges at AKL Domestic, NZ only gets to use 3 of them and the other 3 are solely used by JQ.

NZ has 4 to use from the NZ side.. There are 2 in the old Ansett side which JQ use. It's shown clearly on Google Maps



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2251 posts, RR: 25
Reply 115, posted (1 year 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 10465 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 95):
If anyone wants to spot OXB on it's first day of service...

Just to update, OXB will now likely be pressed into service tomorrow on NZ526 to AKL at 12:30 due to airline requirements.

NZ1


User currently offlineaotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (1 year 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 10426 times:

OXB into service within 48 hours of delivery. That must be some kind of record from delivery to in-service.

Obviously not many mandatory preservice maintenance activities to complete. Or maybe they have been pushed out to a future maintenance slot?


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 117, posted (1 year 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 10409 times:

Quoting aotearoa (Reply 116):
OXB into service within 48 hours of delivery. That must be some kind of record from delivery to in-service.

From memory they did the same with OJS too. That was within 36h of arrival I think. It was because there was 1 733 and a 320 out of dom service.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 118, posted (1 year 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 10373 times:

I know it isn't civil, but does anyone know the identity of the C-17 that was approaching RW21 at Whenuapai about an hour and a half ago? I managed to get a photo, but not a very good one.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 105):
I just wished NZ had a cadetship programme like many overseas airlines.. I might be a pilot now if there was such a programme..

Me also. Doing it on one's own (without student loans etc) is very expensive and takes forever. Joining Virgin Australia's Cadet program is a seriously tempting proposition for once i've finished my degree. Getting back to Air New Zealand, even a simple program that helped bridge the gap between finishing a CPL (~250 hours) and joining the link airlines would be very helpful. Afterall, easyjet manages to get first officers with only ~250 hours flying Airbus A320s. Comparatively, 500+ hours (and it used to be three times that) to fly a Beech 1900 seems rather excessive.

I'm not by any means suggesting an expensive ab-initio program (though that would of course be nice).

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 109):
Saw that too, all I can say is I know more than 8 personally who heavily exceed the Part 121 min requirements and have no call for interview. Don't know where they got that number from

   If its only 8 then I've talked to all of them in the last week. More seriously though it is very disappointing for a company to produce such blatantly false statistics. I liked to think that Air New Zealand had a decent amount of integrity but it seems not.

Quoting koruman (Reply 106):
In fact, my own one-man delusion of A320 services AKL-RAR-BOB seems considerably more realistic, and everyone apart from me recognises that that is sheer insanity!
Quoting 777ER (Reply 107):
Something like UA's Micronesia route with multiple stops between GUM and HNL would be fantastic but sadly I can't see NZ re-instating the Coral Route with A320s.

   I'd fly that route.

Quoting aotearoa (Reply 116):
OXB into service within 48 hours of delivery.

Which aircraft went tech?



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 119, posted (1 year 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 10357 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 118):
even a simple program that helped bridge the gap between finishing a CPL (~250 hours) and joining the link airlines would be very helpful.

Yea the CAA rules pretty much make a CPL worthless when it comes to the link carriers. With a CPL & MEIR one can not legally be a pilot for Air Nelson or Mount Cook due to the 121 requirements. I think Eagle is similar but someone on here will have better knowlege of that.
Apparently the shortage will be quite bad but I know a few guys getting link interviews at the moment still have hours in the range of 1200-1500 flight time dare I say these are the more 'inexperienced' of applicants, and quite a few around the 5000+ hour mark getting in as well so its not all bare bones.

Please note this is what I gather from talking to guys around the traps, not official stuff as I have nothing to do with recruit to group


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4883 posts, RR: 5
Reply 120, posted (1 year 1 week ago) and read 10203 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 118):
I liked to think that Air New Zealand had a decent amount of integrity but it seems not.

I don't see this as an integrity issue. Isn't it a matter of exactly what they are setting the "standard" at ? Sometime this will have to be revealed and then yourself and others can go after it if you believe it is unduly restrictive or unreasonable. I am assuming interested party input will be called for by the appropriate government agency.


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2251 posts, RR: 25
Reply 121, posted (1 year 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10144 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting aotearoa (Reply 116):
OXB into service within 48 hours of delivery. That must be some kind of record from delivery to in-service.

Obviously not many mandatory preservice maintenance activities to complete. Or maybe they have been pushed out to a future maintenance slot?

Correct. Some work has been deferred to a later maintenance slot.

NZ1


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 122, posted (1 year 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10121 times:

as controversal as it may be, I personally don't have a problem with bringing in overseas pilots to fulfil the need of the airline provided their standard of English is fluent and they are already correctly rated on the right types to perform the jobs without further type training. That is the competitive global landscape. NZ pilots go to compete for work in Europe or US or India or Middle East, and visa versa.

I think it indicates the inability for Aviation institutes in NZ to properly provide a complete course that you pay for takes you from 0hours to rated on an ATR/E145/G550/737 as many aviation institutes have available the world over. It's far better to be able to source from worldwide than to settle for less specifically qualified just because that is all that is available in the NZL market at the time. If NZ can do it without setting up their own Aviation Institute then good for them.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 123, posted (1 year 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10132 times:

Last week I was on the delayed NZ1 LAX-AKL, connecting to NZ135 AKL-BNE.

The first flight was delayed at LHR due to the 787 fire closing the airport, and I was initially surprised that my connection was also delayed, although it soon made sense as I realised that it was the same aircraft.

I can't tell you how proud - and secure - I felt when the pilot spoke to us while we were awaiting clearance to take off for Brisbane on the second flight.

Firstly, he could have been as vague as he liked, but he wasn't. He explained that the delay was due to late arrival of the inbound aircraft from LHR and LAX due to the Dreamliner fire, and his apology was gracious and did huge credit to the airline.

Secondly, he then took the time to describe to us the NASA 747SP beside us on the tarmac, what its job was and even how the fuselage opens up to reveal a telescope.

I disagree with Aerorobnz's comments above mine. In a world in which another airline's 777 crashes at SFO because the pilots weren't experienced enough for the task at hand and in which other airlines are routinely economical with the truth, I feel exceptionally secure and at home in the hands of Air NZ's crews, both the crew in the cockpit and the flight attendants.

Any airline's pilots are ambassadors for the carrier. Air New Zealand could not have better long-haul ambassadors.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 124, posted (1 year 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10037 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 123):

Did he happen to be Dave Morgan? He's always such a great commentator when he's in the cockpit - I was lucky enough to have him fly my 733 WLG-AKL.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 125, posted (1 year 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10017 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 123):
Any airline's pilots are ambassadors for the carrier. Air New Zealand could not have better long-haul ambassadors.

Quite right. Many of our pilots are wonderful and love a good honest chat to the passengers but that trait is not unique to new zealand trained pilots. That also doesn't mean that only NZL pilots are worthy of being hired by NZ or that their standards are dropping.
All it means is that those at the standard NZ wants to maintain are few and far between and they have not lowered their standards for hours and ratings just to fill the positions. They are still being just as selective, just looking to hire those who are from overseas, rather than limiting themselves to the small NZ market.

I know many just think they will hire Indonesians & Chinese pilots, but I beg to differ - I think it will be Poms & Australians and Yanks & Canadians, that meet the high calibre required. If they don't meet the grade we currently have they won't get the jobs.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 110):
I'm not sure why it's suddenly considered a problem now.

The retiring of the 744 fleet sees the retirement of plenty of crew as well. Most pilots on longhaul fleet are the younger end of babyboomer age which fast approaching retirement age and started out on DC8s & Electras. The Bell curve is well and truly at that end of their careers...

NZ rates are competitive in the industry. They aren't low at all. Otherwise these experienced guys would have buggered off long ago. Not CX rates exactly, but not that far behind.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 126, posted (1 year 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9990 times:
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Quoting aotearoa (Reply 116):
OXB into service within 48 hours of delivery. That must be some kind of record from delivery to in-service.

Not sure how correct this is, but I was told by my Grandad years ago that NZ had a B762 delivered directly to WLG from Boeing and it entered service less then 24 hours later on the WLG-SYD route. WLG had a proper NZ MX facility then apparently and the pre-service work was done in WLG


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 127, posted (1 year 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10069 times:

plane spotters at AKL get ready for a change between Nov and Feb...

China Airlines from 28NOV13 to 28FEB14 is increasing Taipei Taoyuan – Brisbane – Auckland operation, the airline will fly a 2-class Boeing 747-400 aircraft instead of Airbus A330-300.

CI053 TPE2350 – 1045+1BNE1225+1 – 1840+1AKL 744 146
CI054 AKL2045 – 2125BNE2315 – 0600+1TPE 744 257



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 128, posted (1 year 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10063 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 127):
China Airlines from 28NOV13 to 28FEB14 is increasing Taipei Taoyuan – Brisbane – Auckland operation, the airline will fly a 2-class Boeing 747-400

YES! Great to see another B744 flying to AKL. I've always thought the flight was direct to Taipei but guess its not! Always wanted to fly on a A330 so guess China Airlines is an option for Brisbane in March!


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 870 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (1 year 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10065 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 126):
Not sure how correct this is, but I was told by my Grandad years ago that NZ had a B762 delivered directly to WLG from Boeing and it entered service less then 24 hours later on the WLG-SYD route. WLG had a proper NZ MX facility then apparently and the pre-service work was done in WLG

The first part is correct. ZK-NBA was delivered PAE-NAN-WLG arriving 10 Sep 1985 and from memory it was raining so the front of the aircraft was towed into the hangar for the official welcome by Minister of Transport Richard Prebble & CEO Norm Geary.

The first flight was WLG-SYD 30 Sep 1985, and the other 762's were delivered to AKL.

www.airnewzealand.co.nz/assets/PDFs/history.pdf

PA515


User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 130, posted (1 year 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9594 times:

Government says no pilot shortage in it's prelim findings. I'd imagine big relief for the guys here trying to break in to the carrier from hearing this, although nothing is final. Things I guess are looking in the favor of local guys and girls who have the suitable requirements (And there are more than 8)

[Edited 2013-07-26 01:52:56]

User currently offlinepa747sp From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (1 year 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9495 times:

NZ's problem has always been small fleet/long routes. Stretching a small fleet over a long distances creates nightmares for getting cost efficiencies. The 747 had too much capacity for the AKL/LAX/LHR route (the lowest yielding route in the network) but was necessary because it had the range. It meant that there were times in the schedule when they had a 747 potentially sitting at AKL doing nothing. For a time the a/c was deployed on the AKL MEL route. It lost money but lost less than having it sit at AKL from morning till evening till the departure back to LAX/LHR. Having dedicated a/c for routes (such as having A380s just for the AKL/LAX/LHR) is extremely unlikely. For NZ, the arrival of smaller a/c that can be deployed both on long and short routes economically is going to make their operation a lot more efficient. It wouldnt surprise me if, after the introduction of the 787, they don't standardise on that a/c and reduce or get rid of the 777. Given that the holy grail for airlines is being able to offer the maximum number of flights possible on a route (pax like a choice of frequency), a bigger fleet of smaller a/c that can handle long, medium and short haul ops, I can see NZ looking forward to the start of 787 ops with a lot of excitement.


Nothing seems as good since the VC10.
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 132, posted (1 year 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9383 times:

Quoting pa747sp (Reply 131):
The 747 had too much capacity for the AKL/LAX/LHR route (the lowest yielding route in the network) but was necessary because it had the range.

Are you talking about years ago? AKL-LAX-LHR has not seen a NZ 747 for some years.

Quoting pa747sp (Reply 131):
It wouldnt surprise me if, after the introduction of the 787, they don't standardise on that a/c and reduce or get rid of the 777.

77E yes, but 77W no, they just bought another 2x 77W to be delivered next year.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 133, posted (1 year 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9249 times:

Quoting pa747sp (Reply 131):
The 747 had too much capacity for the AKL/LAX/LHR route

Obviously the 747 was too big for LAX-LHR, so no wonder BA is introducing double daily A380s on this route.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 134, posted (1 year 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9154 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 133):

Yea I know. I was under the impression that NZ was the carrier of choice on the LAX-LHR route for the 'rich and famous'. And was also mentioned somewhere (on here probably) that the reason the airline opened HKG-LHR was to free up seats on the LAX-LHR sector for the higher yeilding traffic.

So I don't think the 744 was too big for the route, after all it was put back on NZ1/2 permanently after it went to a 772 for a brief period of time


User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (1 year 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9092 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 133):
Obviously the 747 was too big for LAX-LHR, so no wonder BA is introducing double daily A380s on this route.

The 77W only has 30 less seats than the 744


User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 136, posted (1 year 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9016 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 134):
The 77W only has 30 less seats than the 744

I thought NZ107's post was implied with a bit of scarcasm...


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7146 posts, RR: 3
Reply 137, posted (1 year 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9005 times:

Quoting SYDAIRPORTS (Reply 75):
Not many families will pay AUD$1000 or more per adult to fly to ZQN return, when they can fly to LAX for same amount.

But you can do ZQN return for a long weekend which many Aussies do.

Quoting koruman (Reply 77):
I do agree with that, but skiing is pretty much a niche market - and an expensive one - everywhere.

Maybe a niche market in Australasia but not in many other parts of the world.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 85):

Why stay at Cardrona? What is so wrong with staying in Queenstown or Wanaka at a hotel or even a motel?

Queenstown is where the action is.

Quoting koruman (Reply 92):
1) Affluent couples with no kids,

Really, you don't go often, do you, just about all my friends have kids and ski, we're not all affluent either.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 125):
Not CX rates exactly, but not that far behind.

A friend of mines husband is a CX pilot, he's been there for about 10 years, the family are now moving back to Auckland, have just plonked down 4 million for a new house and he's landed a job with NZ, pay was within 10 % apparently.


User currently offlinePalmyboy12 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 138, posted (1 year 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9007 times:

First look at the painted 787-9 from The Boeing Company's flickr account.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/theboeingcompany/9375872988/


"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5298 posts, RR: 11
Reply 139, posted (1 year 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8919 times:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 135):
The 77W only has 30 less seats than the 744

47 to be precise.

Quoting pa747sp (Reply 131):
The 747 had too much capacity for the AKL/LAX/LHR route (the lowest yielding route in the network) but was necessary because it had the range. It

While it is a long flight and was losing money for a while, I personally doubt it was the lowest yeilding route in the network, the flights were often full not that that means profit, but the 744 became uneconomic for NZ (and others) compared to the 77W and A380.

Quoting pa747sp (Reply 131):
For a time the a/c was deployed on the AKL MEL route. It lost money but lost less than having it sit at AKL from morning till evening till the departure back to LAX/LHR

That was when NZ had more 744s they flew to BNE daily for years, MEL was added later plus NAN and sometimes SYD aswell at times. Not just for utilization but also loads were good, (doesn't mean profitable though) but before NZ got the 772 they only had the 763 for long haul besides the 744.

Quoting pa747sp (Reply 131):
Given that the holy grail for airlines is being able to offer the maximum number of flights possible on a route (pax like a choice of frequency), a bigger fleet of smaller a/c that can handle long, medium and short haul ops,

Frequency on short haul is important no so much on most long haul. NZ run AKL-LAX Double daily 77Ws plus additional flights in peak times SFO, PVG, HKG are all daily as is NRT most of the year, YVR is increasing again to 6x weekly in the peak months over summer. What do you suggest? LAX has gone from 2 744s a day to 2 77Ws, it was up to 19 weekly 744s before SFO came along and then YVR later but LAX still does well and SFO and YVR have done well.

Quoting cchan (Reply 132):

Are you talking about years ago? AKL-LAX-LHR has not seen a NZ 747 for some years.

March 2011.


User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (1 year 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8899 times:

Quoting Palmyboy12 (Reply 138):
First look at the painted 787-9 from The Boeing Company's flickr account.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/theboei...2988/

I wonder if it will get repainted or if NZ will operate in the BOEING Livery


User currently offlineaotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (1 year 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8910 times:

This a/c will not join the Air New Zealand fleet until 2015. It will go back for a full refurbishment (including an ANZ livery) after Boeing have completed the certification program, prior to delivery to ANZ.

User currently offlineBonzoLab From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (1 year 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8878 times:

Quoting HLZCPH (Reply 89):
What's more concerning is that the Chairman of IVC doesn't actually know how many times per day the airbridge is used (note: every ATR flight). Amateur. No doubt appointed care of the local old boy's network.

Actually the 600s are unable to use the airbridge because their Thales electronic suite is rather sensitive to magnetic disturbances outside the IVC terminal.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 143, posted (1 year 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8826 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 120):
I don't see this as an integrity issue. Isn't it a matter of exactly what they are setting the "standard" at ? Sometime this will have to be revealed and then yourself and others can go after it if you believe it is unduly restrictive or unreasonable.

It seems that they have set 'the standard' particularly high so that they can stand back and complain to the Immigration/Labour Department that they are in need and that some of the barriers to hiring offshore crew should be removed. As you say, this will eventually be revealed and we will be able to judge properly then.

Quoting koruman (Reply 123):
Any airline's pilots are ambassadors for the carrier. Air New Zealand could not have better long-haul ambassadors.

Agreed 100%. Infact that can be extended to every Air New Zealander that deals with customers, from the people at the call center to those that run Air NZ parking.  
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 125):
The Bell curve is well and truly at that end of their careers.

This isn't unique to NZ.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 140):
I wonder if it will get repainted or if NZ will operate in the BOEING Livery

A 'dreamliner' livery like this would be cool. http://bit.ly/18ICdvy



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25013 posts, RR: 85
Reply 144, posted (1 year 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8820 times:
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Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 139):
Frequency on short haul is important no so much on most long haul.

  

Airlines have nearly gone bust chasing frequency.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 145, posted (1 year 5 days ago) and read 8801 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 143):
This isn't unique to NZ.

No. but only NZ has a permanent fleet of over 8-9 aircraft and more than one type.. They are the only ones really affected by this shortage... Jetconnect have staff here permanently, but many were sourced from Australian crew originally. JQ just second Australian staff for a stay of 1-2 months I believe...Not sure on VA NZL but they still don't have big fleets to operate.

Of course others have similar issues as NZ, but they are often from countries that can draw on larger numbers of fully qualified staff (EU/USA/Canada)

Quoting zkojq (Reply 143):
It seems that they have set 'the standard' particularly high so that they can stand back and complain to the Immigration/Labour Department that they are in need and that some of the barriers to hiring offshore crew should be removed.

Are you really suggesting that for the past 40 years that have had jet ops that NZ have deliberately set their crew (and therefore safety) standards too high so they can say there is a shortage of suitable staff now?? Give me an overseas rated pilots with more hours and type rating over a local with 750 equivalent hours and further rating training necessary any day..

If budding pilots choose not to spend the moeny for training/hours that would make them a sure thing for hiring, that is their issue. They have other options if they don't want to - Etihad/Emirates/Qatar/Qantas etc all have overseas programs that they are eligible to apply for. As a listed company, NZ should be free to hire who they want and live with the consequences of their decisions. This smacks of country town xenophobia more than anything else to me.


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1240 posts, RR: 6
Reply 146, posted (1 year 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8685 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 134):
Yea I know. I was under the impression that NZ was the carrier of choice on the LAX-LHR route for the 'rich and famous'. And was also mentioned somewhere (on here probably) that the reason the airline opened HKG-LHR was to free up seats on the LAX-LHR sector for the higher yeilding traffic.
Quoting zkojq (Reply 143):
Agreed 100%. Infact that can be extended to every Air New Zealander that deals with customers, from the people at the call center to those that run Air NZ parking.

Can we calm down with the world famous in New Zealand myths now?
No NZ isnt the carrier for the rich and famous between LHR-LAX. They are about as far away from that as you can come.
NZ is a niche carrier that sells seats to expat kiwis and a small amount of frequent travellers thats found the relaxed atmosphere on NZ to suit their taste.
NZ use price (like China Southern does in AKL) as their main incentive to convince non kiwis to fly between LHR-LAX.

With a handful or so departures every week out of LHR, NZ hardly resgister with the travelling public in London.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently onlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 12
Reply 147, posted (1 year 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8673 times:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 146):
Can we calm down with the world famous in New Zealand myths now?
No NZ isnt the carrier for the rich and famous between LHR-LAX. They are about as far away from that as you can come.
NZ is a niche carrier that sells seats to expat kiwis and a small amount of frequent travellers thats found the relaxed atmosphere on NZ to suit their taste.
NZ use price (like China Southern does in AKL) as their main incentive to convince non kiwis to fly between LHR-LAX.

I think you didn't get my sarcasm when I said 'rich and famous' (in quotation marks). There was a thread a few years back about B-grade celebs using the airline as their preference because of something to do with privacy or name suppression that other carriers on the route don't do. Apparently they fill up the biz seats. I don't what that has to do with being world famous in NZ or the L&P slogan. Now this may be true, or it may not be but it was the impression I was given.

I would imagine the truly rich and famous would travel F or privately.


User currently offlineWSTAKL From New Zealand, joined Jun 2011, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (1 year 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8561 times:

I thought celebrities loved NZ?....I mean if you are one, NZ allow your pet's in the cabin! What other airline allows that awesome privilege?

[Edited 2013-07-27 13:42:58]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25013 posts, RR: 85
Reply 149, posted (1 year 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8534 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 146):
Can we calm down with the world famous in New Zealand myths now?
No NZ isnt the carrier for the rich and famous between LHR-LAX. They are about as far away from that as you can come.

The rich and famous? No.

But there is a whole subgroup of modestly well-to-do - or very well-paid - who do fly it, second-tier studio execs, actors who are well-emplyed but not stars, producers who haven't quite made the big time yet, but are medium-time.

Hollywood doesn't divide into the very rich and everyone else. There are the semi-rich, the trust fundies, say, who have good - inherited - money but not a lot of income, or women who did well from their divorce, but not well enough to flash money around.

There are actors and film crew (and junior execs, again) who have "front of the cabin" in their contacts, but who are not famous enough to fly first - Virgin Atlantic has numerous studio deals for that group.

It is the same subgroup that embraced JetBlue so avidly for transcons when flying on their own money - treated well for a not outrageous fare - and JetBlue positioned itself as "funky."

Partly, they fly with Air NZ for the reason you say:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 146):
NZ use price (like China Southern does in AKL) as their main incentive to convince non kiwis to fly between LHR-LAX.

But there are also questions of status. They don't want (or can't afford) to pay for first class, but they're happy flying an airline where there is no first class check-in line - they are, if only by default, front of the cabin, front of the line.

And like Virgin Atlantic and JetBlue, flying that "wunnerful l'il airline from the South Pacific" can be perceived as funky. And funky - in a status driven society - is often seen as desirable.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinepa747sp From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 150, posted (1 year 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8398 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 139):
While it is a long flight and was losing money for a while, I personally doubt it was the lowest yeilding route in the network, the flights were often full not that that means profit, but the 744 became uneconomic for NZ (and others) compared to the 77W and A380.

When I was working for NZ AKL LHR was the lowest yielding route. It was operated because 1) LAX LHR was relatively high yielding and 2) it was believed to feed traffic into the NZ network elsewhere. Also, if they dropped it they would then have to get rid of two 747s or deploy them elsewhere, creating further problems with a smaller fleet and an inability to get schedule flexibility. Incidentally, AKL NOU was the highest yielding route at the time. Things could have changed.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 133):
Obviously the 747 was too big for LAX-LHR, so no wonder BA is introducing double daily A380s on this route.

BA operate the A380 from and too LAX, and feed traffic from LHR into a huge network. NZ had to get the a/c from AKL to LAX and then they were mainly dealing with point-to-point traffic. They made money on the route mostly because the exchange rate differential and higher yield made the route profitable. On AKL LHR they barely made 1 cent a mile, LAX LHR they made about 10c a mile (this was told to me by a Route Manager in NZ at the time. Yes, it was over ten years ago, but I can't imagine yields have improved on the AKL LHR route much given the increase in competition out on NZ in the intervening years) . For the travel industry at the time there was always complaints that they could never get seats on NZ AKL LHR. Thats because NZ far preferred to sell seats AKL LAX and LAX LHR because the combined yield far exceeded the AKL LHR yield.



Nothing seems as good since the VC10.
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2684 posts, RR: 4
Reply 151, posted (1 year 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8374 times:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 146):
Can we calm down with the world famous in New Zealand myths now?

I think it's pretty apt though really - we think we're world famous, but that fame is confined to our borders.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 146):
NZ use price (like China Southern does in AKL) as their main incentive to convince non kiwis to fly between LHR-LAX.

Yup, still getting regular discount deals in my email after signing up to the UK version of NZ's website a few moons ago.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 137):
A friend of mines husband is a CX pilot, he's been there for about 10 years, the family are now moving back to Auckland, have just plonked down 4 million for a new house and he's landed a job with NZ, pay was within 10 % apparently.

Yeah but tit's not the hyper-experienced level that provides long-term sustainability in your pilot pool. It's entry level. What are the conditions like there? You've just finished pilot school with a massive debt... you take off overseas for the Arab or Asian carriers with benefits, tax free salaries and accommodation provision. NZ has generally had pilots stick around for a very long time, meaning it's been pretty tough for newbies to break in. And then the existing pilots all start retiring in one large cohort. Bad business planning.

Regardless, apparently the government doesn't think there's a shortage, which suggests NZ was just trying it on.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7146 posts, RR: 3
Reply 152, posted (1 year 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8360 times:

Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 148):
I thought celebrities loved NZ?....I mean if you are one, NZ allow your pet's in the cabin! What other airline allows that awesome privilege?

You need to fly in Europe, just about every airline I've flown on allows you to travel with your miniature mutt.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 151):
You've just finished pilot school with a massive debt... you take off overseas for the Arab or Asian carriers with benefits, tax free salaries and accommodation provision.

Which is what my friends husband did, left flight school flew domestic for NZ for a couple of years then legged it to Hong Kong, made it to 777 captain and is now heading back in NZ as a 777 captain.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 153, posted (1 year 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8278 times:

Calm down everybody.

I'm probably as big a defender of AKL-LAX-LHR as anybody, but let me pin my colours to the mast with the following comments:

1. AKL-LHR is relatively low-yielding, wherever it routes via. Even if LAXintl's advice to codeshare a scetor was followed, this would not change as the other carrier would expect at least half the fare.
2. AKL-LAX is high-yielding, especially as it's a monopoly.
3. LAX-LHR is even higher-yielding, even though BA and probably Virgin command higher fares (but have a much higher cost-base.

Yes, BA commands higher fares on this sector. But NZ's yields are astronomical compared with the AKL-