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New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works  
User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 640 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 41074 times:

Is this likely to be any more than a de-rated A330?

"Leahy said Airbus was working on a regional version of the A330 designed for shorter trips in high-density markets like Southeast Asia, mirroring plans for a similar regional version for the A350 first reported by Reuters last month.

A decision on whether to develop the new A330 version is expected before the end of the year, Leahy said."

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/...3-order-target-to-over-1-000-jets/

159 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinehotplane From UK - England, joined Jul 2006, 1038 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 40691 times:

Similar roll to the A300/A310, presumably?


?
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11367 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 40620 times:

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Thread starter):
Is this likely to be any more than a de-rated A330?

De-rated engine options are already available, it must be something else.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3443 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 40557 times:

Talk about burying the lede. Interesting news. I wonder if this will be a derated version like the A350 regional. I have a hard time seeing how a regional A330 could be more efficient than an A350 on the same route though.

tortugamon


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11367 posts, RR: 33
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 40357 times:

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Thread starter):
regional version for the A350 first reported by Reuters last month

First? Reuters should better check their facts.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...for-medium-haul-operations-224656/

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 3):
I wonder if this will be a derated version like the A350 regional.

De-rated A330 engine options are already available.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 3):
I have a hard time seeing how a regional A330 could be more efficient than an A350 on the same route though.

It cant't. Besides, the A330 is already optimized for those regional routes. The article says "designed for shorter trips in high-density markets", that sounds more like an A350-800 optimized for 6000nm routes in a high-density configuration. But why calling it a "regional A330"?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 40321 times:

This sounds a lot like the now-cancelled 787-3?


Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3443 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 40045 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 4):
But why calling it a "regional A330"?

Maybe a smaller wing and removal of fuel tanks. Undo many of the MTOW improvements of the past 15 years... I would think that they could not change the MLG too much because even if it is less weight it will have more cycles. Maybe he was talking about the regional A350 and the reporter got it wrong but it just does not fit.

tortugamon


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10008 posts, RR: 96
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 39980 times:
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Quoting tortugamon (Reply 6):
Maybe a smaller wing and removal of fuel tanks

IMO the smaller wing is what killed the 787-3

Rgds


User currently offlinesolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 39991 times:

Found this on A´s website:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvaN17HJLSo

Cheers   



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11367 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 39824 times:

Quoting ghifty (Reply 5):
This sounds a lot like the now-cancelled 787-3?

It sounds more like a new A330 family member.

Quoting solnabo (Reply 8):
Found this on A´s website:

I'm surprised to see how many investments they make annually for the A330 program:



[Edited 2013-07-19 11:06:04]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3443 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 39698 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 7):
IMO the smaller wing is what killed the 787-3

Little doubt about it but some Asian customers did want it. It didn't pencil out but it does not mean that there is not a concept there. Anyway, I am grasping at straws because I really do not see how they are going to do this successfully. You have any ideas on how it could work? Wish them luck.

tortugamon


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 39022 times:

I don't really see how they could make the wing smaller. Boeing did it with the 783 by removing the raked wingtips and using blended winglets instead. I don't really see Airbus removing the winglets (which wouldn't make a dramtic difference in the wing size anyways) and can't imagine them spending money to give the A330 a new smaller wing; wings are expensive.



[Edited 2013-07-19 13:40:54]

User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1561 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 38980 times:

IMO the 350 has too much structure and to be a good regional aircraft. My impression is that Airbus would be looking at a much shorter range, than would make the 350 clearly the preferred option.

The 330 has grown in MTOW, payload and range over the years.

Airbus could keep all the aerodynamic, engine, software and all the other improvements, but limit range, and remove a lot of weight.

I have not studied the actual figures, but for an existing 330 operator it may be attractive,

Ruscoe


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10008 posts, RR: 96
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 38890 times:
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Quoting tortugamon (Reply 10):
Anyway, I am grasping at straws because I really do not see how they are going to do this successfully. You have any ideas on how it could work? Wish them luck

aside from a paper de-rate? no, I don't really know what they might do.

I can think of some things they could do perhaps, like lightening the wing to take out the "A340 weight" supposedly in there. They could perhaps look at an improved winglet/sharklet.
But they're things that would apply across the range anyway, bringing us back to a paper de-rate.

Rgds

[Edited 2013-07-19 13:58:54]

User currently offline747megatop From United States of America, joined May 2007, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 38787 times:

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Thread starter):
"Leahy said Airbus was working on a regional version of the A330 designed for shorter trips in high-density markets like Southeast Asia, mirroring plans for a similar regional version for the A350 first reported by Reuters last month.

If flights lasting between 1.5 hours and 2.5 hours also qualify as "shorter trips" then the Regional version of the A-330 will probably make sense in the high density domestic segments like BOM - DEL; BOM - BLR; DEL - BLR; DEL - MAA and be very successful. Question is how many airlines will in India though will jump at this and opt for lower frequency larger planes (regional A 330) VERSUS higher frequency with smaller planes for these shorter regional/domestic routes.


User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3443 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 38610 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 12):
but limit range, and remove a lot of weight.

How? Where specifically?

Quoting astuteman (Reply 13):
like lightening the wing to take out the "A340 weight" supposedly in there.

I thought they already did that. Guess not, that could be it.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 14):
f flights lasting between 1.5 hours and 2.5 hours

I think these type of flights would still be cheaper to operate on narrow body aircraft and its not like these routes are heavily slot restricted.

tortugamon


User currently offline747megatop From United States of America, joined May 2007, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 38137 times:

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 15):
its not like these routes are heavily slot restricted

According to these, the airports seem to be slot restricted -

1) http://civilaviation.gov.in/cs/group...nts/newsandupdates/moca_001396.pdf (search for "Slot Allocation Policy")

2) http://www.acukwik.com/AirportInfo/VIDP ; in that web page it has -> Slots Required: Yes

Aren't they? And, there is a lot of congestion in BOM; with BOM - DEL figuring in the top 10 or 15 busiest routes in the world. Hence the question.


User currently offlinemjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 1434 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 37724 times:

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 6):
Maybe a smaller wing and removal of fuel tanks. Undo many of the MTOW improvements of the past 15 years... I would think that they could not change the MLG too much because even if it is less weight it will have more cycles. Maybe he was talking about the regional A350 and the reporter got it wrong but it just does not fit.

tortugamon

Maybe a new wing, lighter not smaller. New wing box ( how do you remove the tank without redesigning the wing box ), removal of excessive weight due to common structures with the A 340 like the middle LG bay.

I do not see the sense in making the wing smaller, the next gate size down is code D with 52 m or less and that would be a 8 m reduction in wing span.

[Edited 2013-07-19 14:55:32]

User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 36822 times:

Now this is the sort of regional jet I could get used to flying on  

User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3443 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 36713 times:

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 16):
Aren't they? And, there is a lot of congestion in BOM; with BOM - DEL figuring in the top 10 or 15 busiest routes in the world. Hence the question.

Terminal 3 should be able to handle all traffic by itself (let alone the other Domestic terminal) and the three long run ways that allow for simultaneous landings since last year should be enough for an airport that does not handle more passengers than LGW. I thought BOM had an expansion in place that would alleviate the problems in a year or two.

I once took a 747 with about 15 people on board from ATQ to DEL so I know they are open to using widebody aircraft on short domestic roues.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 17):
Maybe a new wing, lighter not smaller. New wing box ( how do you remove the tank without redesigning the wing box ), removal of excessive weight due to common structures with the A 340 like the middle LG bay.

Sounds like an A330X   Expensive.


tortugamon


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 572 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 36369 times:

Can the A330 be stretched?

Perhaps this is an A330-400, lengthened but without increasing MTOW. Would that be competetive on short intra-asia markets as a 773 replacement?



Coming Up: VIE-CDG-SLC-BZN
User currently offlineoykie From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2732 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 35542 times:

Interesting comment from Leahy. Since we Are only speculating at this time, could this be an oportunity for PW to get the GTF on a widebody airplane?  


Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlinemjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 1434 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 35178 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 20):
Can the A330 be stretched?

Perhaps this is an A330-400, lengthened but without increasing MTOW. Would that be competetive on short intra-asia markets as a 773 replacement?

I thing there are enough frames battling to replace the B 777-300, I was rather thinking about downsizing, A 330-200 size or smaller with a reduced OEF and MTOW.


User currently offlineSelseyBill From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2013, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 34760 times:

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 22):
I was rather thinking about downsizing, A 330-200 size or smaller with a reduced OEF and MTOW

Me too. How about a nice cheap lightened Tianjin built A330-100NEO nicely sitting between the A321 and A358 ?

Could potentially chew away at some B788 business in Asia.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30908 posts, RR: 87
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 34713 times:
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Well the 787-10 is going to put some serious hurt on the A330-300, so this could be an attempt to make it more appealing (ala Boeing with the 777X against the A350).

25 ikramerica : So true. Only been on a few regional widebody flights, but they are fun. MEL-SYD on 767, ZRH-GVA on MD11, ITM-NRT on 744D.
26 tortugamon : It would take more than a simple stretch to get into 773 territory. I don't think Airbus will want to launch something that competes with 359/351. It
27 roseflyer : I seem to remember a thread about this right after the 787-10 was launched. Such a plane makes sense since I am sure a few airlines use A330s on short
28 ghifty : Indeed. I meant to put something along the lines of this sounds like what the 787-3 was to the 787 family, but realise that what I put reads consider
29 ferpe : It is an interesting comment by Lehay and quite challangning to ponder what they can do. Looking from the airlines perspective they would like to have
30 panais : There is an issue with the investment in the A330 so far and is that it was to make it as attractive to potential B787 customers with more range, hig
31 gigneil : The word on the street is an A350 regional. Not an A330. 150 million euros on a 10 billion airplane ain't much. NS
32 sassiciai : I think you are right. Recently, Airbus delivered to Cebu Pacific its first A330, seating 439 pax in an all-Y 9-across seating. Perhaps this triggere
33 astuteman : It's interesting to speculate at which point the drive for ever greater numbers of seats in airframes will eventually see 16.5" seats being used in s
34 ktachiya : Skymark might want these variants for their domestic A333 which will be delivered early next year!!! Sounds perfect for routings such as HND-FUK or H
35 AAMDanny : I think it would sell really well for the intra-Asia carriers, and maybe a couple of other hot spots around the world. cleaver re-configuration of Gal
36 oykie : How can an A330 get better CASM that will only benefit regional flights? I remember redning that the Thomas Cook A321 and their A321 offers the same
37 Geo772 : The changes will certainly extend beyond a derate of the engines. The MTOW will be reduced significantly, however the MZFW will stay roughly the same.
38 mjoelnir : The A 330 is a iteration of the A 300/310. Airbus could go for downsizing, fuselage A 300 size, MLG A 300 size, new wing, derated A 330 engines. OEW c
39 trex8 : IIRC from previous tech threads the center tank is only present on 332 and 340s not the present 333s. Only the 242 ton A333 for delivery in 2015 will
40 SFOJFK : Would the new AA get some to bring back the old A300 lift to the Caribbean and Central America?
41 mjoelnir : The tank is there on all A 330, it is part of the wing box, it was just not used or enabled for the older A 330-300 as she could not use it anyway du
42 JerseyFlyer : There are a few 9Y A330s flying, but seats are tight. I seem to recall that the Mk 1 A350 concept included thinner sidewalls to make 9Y more comforta
43 CiC : Maybe Lufthansa has some stake in the discussion? They definitively miss the A300 capacity, even the cramped A321 with the 200seat-config is not enaug
44 Post contains images astuteman : A 400 - 440 seat 9-abreast A333 would have pretty impressive CASM, plus the ability to reach WAY further than an A321 ever will, even a NEO. The more
45 trex8 : Per their tech description on their website A offers today 184 or 212 tonne MTOW variants with 164 MZFW and 205/209 MTOW with 172 t MZFW or 217 MTOW w
46 Post contains images astuteman : I still like the idea of an A330 some 1-2 rows longer than the 787-10 but as a simple stretch of the A330-300 - no other change unless it absolutely
47 someone83 : While not impossible, I'm still struggling to se what Airbus can do which is cheap and fast enough to offer enough differencies from the current A330s
48 trex8 : Would it be more expensive to recertify a simple stretch or a new cabin interior?
49 tortugamon : ANA puts 335 on their 787-8s but if it was converted to all economy it should easily fit 15 more seats (1 more row of Y and 6 more seats from two row
50 KarelXWB : Maybe. Not only Cebu Pacific but also Philippine Airlines is going to install 400+ seats on their new A330s. Skymark will also use the A330 on domest
51 sassiciai : It would be useful if we had a more or less common definition of the term "regional". In all the above posts, it seems to be anything out to 4500nm or
52 Viscount724 : Air Inter, the first A330 operator, had 412 seats, 9-abreast, on their A333s, but few of their French domestic routes were as long as 2 hours.
53 Burkhard : Am I the only one who takes an A332/3 and puts the GENX-2 to its wing - this would make an aircraft that beats the 788/9 on short routes, and clearly
54 tortugamon : Depends on how you classify regional as you mention. I took it to mean "not intercontinental". It will be difficult for a small wide body to compete
55 flyingclrs727 : What if Airbus used the structure of the A300 wing and updated the aerodynamics, but used A330 systems. Wouldn't that result in a smaller, lighter win
56 DocLightning : The A346 was a 77W competitor. So do an A336. Same fuselage, same wing, one less engine. Would have 4,000 or so NM range and that's all they need.
57 Stitch : With 8 Type I Exit Doors, the A330-300 is limited to 440 passengers, so Cebu Pacific's configuration is as high as you are going to get (interestingly
58 migair54 : To make the plane better for short trips they must increase the MZFW (maximum zero fuel weight) in order to uplift more pay load in short sectors with
59 rheinwaldner : As the A330 nowadays is a long range plane that offers very good performance, there are two approaches: - Maximizing capacity as suggested by you. Th
60 Post contains images astuteman : the trouble is that putting a short span wing on the plane will kill the fuel burn, despite the weight savings - one of the lessons from the 787-3 (t
61 airbazar : But how big is the market for a short haul 400+ seat airplane? I can't imagine it being that big. About the only advantage is the time to market. I s
62 Polot : It would also be very heavy and likely need larger more powerful engines. The question is whether Airbus is willing to encroach upon the A350's size.
63 astuteman : don't disagree with either of you. Just speculating on what might be done to support the headline Rgds
64 Polot : It will probably be additional paper derates and maybe a few minor changes (removing things like the center fuel tank on the A332 etc). All this talk
65 tortugamon : Sounds expensive and they would be competing against the 351 which should already mop up the regional routes at that size. The HGW A330 was announced
66 Post contains images neutrino : How about JL eating his words and doing the "silly" folding wingtip?
67 airbazar : The HGW A330 was announced mid 2012 and is due to enter service by mid 2015. If Airbus launches another minimal change version by the end of 2013 EIS
68 Post contains images planewasted : I like the idea of the A330-600. [Edited 2013-07-21 09:22:54]
69 tortugamon : We will see what happens (way too early to tell) but I am confident you could buy delivery slots for before 2020. They delivered 46 787-8s the year a
70 KarelXWB : The only difference is, the de-rated A350 is available from the beginning while the 'new/upgraded' A330 (or whatever it will be) is pending board app
71 tortugamon : Not the clearest sentence I have written. I was suggesting that in combination with each other they could sell well. A regional A330 optimizes for sh
72 Post contains images Stitch : That would get you ~57m of cabin length, which is within 2m of the A350-1000. Might as well just buy the A350-1000 and paper derate the MTOW. Plus it
73 aviaponcho : All right... Baseline "regional A330" can be A330-200 Go somewhere between 200 and 210t MTOW Take back the A310 Aft galley with 4 toilets ... and you
74 tortugamon : I like this idea. The 500 is 4-5 years newer with a higher bypass ratio and pressure ratio and nearly identical dimensions. The 700 has a couple impr
75 trex8 : Trent 500 only rated to 56k. Thrust though rolls says it was designed for up to 60k. Trent 700 lowest thrust rating is 66k presumably this is the lowe
76 tortugamon : I could be wrong but I think a 60k version was certified for the A346 HGW. tortugamon
77 trex8 : You are quite right per EASA TcDS it's rated to 61900! I like this Trent 500 idea!
78 B747400ERF : I don't see how a regional, or domestic A330 would be much different than the regular A330. Take the 747-400D for example, the only difference here is
79 DocLightning : The -400D was mostly a paper de-rate. The winglets were removed because they give most benefit on longer sectors. It didn't sell very many, but it di
80 trex8 : Because the A358 MTOW is higher than the latest A333s you can order today and if the A330 wing is too optimized for long range the A350 is going to be
81 Polot : Hacking off a few meters of wingspan is not an easy task. Boeing didn't do that with the 744D, they just didn't give the wing the wingtip extensions
82 jetsetter1969 : Would the design and certification of a shortened a330 with a new wing be cost prohibitive? What would the potential sales be? Once the a350 is establ
83 Polot : When you consider that they also have the A350-1000/-800 and A320Neo to work on, and a regional A330 will likely have its best shot if its EIS is bef
84 tortugamon : Due to the high cycles the -400D models faces, I believe Boeing reinforced the landing gear to have a higher cycle useful life rather than a life bas
85 Post contains images astuteman : Does it need to though? What's the OEW of an A350-1000? 155t? 160t? What's the OEW of an A333? 125t? What would the OEW of an A334 be? 130t? 135t? Yo
86 RickNRoll : Isn't the A330 going to be cheaper?
87 aviaponcho : Does anybody knows if the CFRP rear bulkhead of the A340-600 had been used on A330E ?
88 Post contains images airbazar : I don't believe this "regional" A330 is aimed at the "western" airlines. I can't think of any airline in Europe or N.America that would need it, exce
89 rheinwaldner : The lesson learnt from the A300 is that a short wing is not the problem. Assume for a moment the wing, the gear and the engines are tailormade to sup
90 aviaponcho : Just one remainder The 787-10 exit limit will be 440 seats if it stays with four doors...the same as A330-300 (and CEBU A330-300 is indeed 436 PAX) So
91 panais : Nobody gets closer to airlines and their needs than Leahy. If there was a need for a Regional widebody, he would know how it looks like and how it per
92 Post contains links aviaponcho : So the A330 regional is already here ? Any one as some clues on the Cebu's A330 LOPA ? I've only find that : http://blog.apex.aero/cabin-interior...en
93 r2rho : A good list, to which I would add things like reduced oxygen and fire extinction systems, and other things you need for long ETOPS diversions that yo
94 tortugamon : Very true but if we are talking about an A332 or A333 regional then I think its best to compare that to 788 and 789s anyway. Just for reference: ANA'
95 DocLightning : You're correct. That's what I meant. The winglets were both a span extension and a winglet. So the 744D had the Classic wing minus the two radio mast
96 Post contains links KarelXWB : Here is some more info: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...-07-22/airbus-maps-out-future-a330 Also from the same article, Airbus will try to bring
97 trex8 : Darn, so no Trent 500s!
98 tortugamon : Just a simple derate from the sounds of it which I thought already existed. tortugamon[Edited 2013-07-22 14:51:00]
99 Post contains links KarelXWB : http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...data/AC/Airbus-AC-A330-Apr2013.pdf Page 50 and 51, there even is a 184t A333. But the article mention weight re
100 Post contains links trex8 : per http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...data/AC/Airbus-AC-A330-Apr2013.pdf section 2-1-1 A333 WV01 184 MTOW 165 MZFW WV04 209-215 MTOW 172-165 MZF
101 Post contains images Stitch : Called it. Seriously, moving from 233t to 235t was said to give the A330-300 an extra 135nm of range with 300 passengers or an increase of 1.4 tons o
102 tortugamon : Yes you did. Wish it was not the boring option but it usually is. Thank you guys tortugamon
103 Post contains images trex8 : Are you sure you aren't related to JL??
104 aviaponcho : So no big news indeed Did any one knows if MOD48980 FUSELAGE - GENERAL - REAR FUSELAGE INTRODUCE CFRP PRESSURE BULKHEAD FRAME induce use of a full CFR
105 Post contains images zeke : Yes, a flow on from the A340NG. The main way to tell the difference is the 3 safety valves located on the top of the aft pressure bulkhead, the origi
106 aviaponcho : Fine ! thanks Zeke A lot of A340NG flow in the A330 indeed !
107 RickNRoll : Leahy has already pretty well shut the door on any big changes to the A330, everything from now on will just be tweaking different aspects of it's pe
108 Stitch : It also requires no changes to the production chain, which maintains availability, which is another one of it's advantages.
109 KarelXWB : Here is what Leahy said during the delivery ceremony of the first AA A319:
110 Post contains images EPA001 : I like that. The A330-100 describes very well what type of the A330 we might see introduced to the market soon. So Airbus are working on both sides o
111 KarelXWB : The 787 is sold out until 2018 and the delivery slots in 2019 will be gone soon because more sales will come in. Secondly the 787-10 won't hit full p
112 tortugamon : I do not disagree with anything you mentioned. My statement was that you could buy pre-2020 787-10 delivery slots and it sounds like you agree as wel
113 Post contains links tortugamon : Aviation Week has an article about the A350/A330 regional being launched to combat the 787-10. A couple highlights: -Although Airbus has been talking
114 ferpe : The spec range of a 250t A350-900 should be around 6800nm ie identical to the 787-10 (in it's 323 pax version). They would also be very similar in con
115 trex8 : I know this will vary a lot between airports and routes but does anyone know how much an airline might save by having a MTOW 40K less than another pla
116 B-HOP : What about taking the winglet off, strengthen the landing gear/wing spar, a derate engine from CURRENT engine, reduce fuel capacity and reducing on ga
117 KarelXWB : In aviation, several thousand dollars is just lunch money. For that small amount you might buy the 787-10 instead. No, on a yearly basis, it could sa
118 tortugamon : My very rough calculation is the following: I think it costs slightly less the $2k to land at JFK with a 767 and slightly less than $3k with a 777 so
119 Stitch : If Airbus have strengthened the landing gear as they upped the MTOWs, could they not just use the gear designed for the higher TOWs to handle the add
120 tortugamon : Very possible. Is there a correlation between compression/tensile strength and metal fatigue? This is not my area of expertise but I would think they
121 Post contains images ferpe : Well you shave of some 30+ tonnes of fuel, can't have range without fuel . I did not change the OEW, it was at 125t which is realistic for a modern 3
122 tortugamon : Thanks ferpe. Smart guy. Appreciate it. tortugamon
123 trex8 : So a regional A359 has as much range as the latest A333 offered!! Wonder who the carriers are who are interested in the regional version? CX ( or mor
124 ferpe : I think you miss about 1000nm somewhere, the one which is delivered right now is somewhere around 5800nm spec range and is fuel limited, when you go
125 trex8 : Poor choice of words on my part but as you point out the A359regional has far longer legs than most A333s and matching A343s!!
126 Asiaflyer : With 70 A350 on order, a part of that future A350 fleet being a derated version should suit SQ well in the same way as the detrated 772's has beens s
127 ferpe : This might very well be the case, in such case one can deduce the use from the given MTOW of the variant. It is 6800nm in spec config, that is forget
128 IndianicWorld : The issue really becomes that these aircraft have a niche role especially when they end their useful life at the carrier and they are looking to possi
129 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Say from MNL for a true 5500NM range...very far..... http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=&R=5500nm...mnl&MS=wls&MR=1800&MX=720x360&PM=* Ag
130 cerecl : Possibly, with the extra 20 options this could mean SQ can eventually simplify its mainline fleet to just two types. The big three are still ordering
131 airbazar : With that kind of range I would be asking which airlines would be interested in the baseline A359, not which airlines are interested in the regional.
132 r2rho : So a basic paper derate without any optimization. Seems that Airbus is hesitant to custom-optimize the A350 for shorter missions (see also A358). Hon
133 Stitch : Such a scenario does make sense, with Scoot getting the 787-10s.[Edited 2013-07-29 07:11:56]
134 ytz : They don't even all use 739/A321s regularly yet.
135 Post contains links KarelXWB : Singapore Airlines will be the launch customer of the regional version of the A350-900? http://www.bloga350.blogspot.nl/2013...0r-singapore-airlines-w
136 Post contains links JerseyFlyer : Seems that Airbus is hesitant to custom-optimize the A350 for shorter missions (see also A358). Because: "The variant can be reinstated to full range
137 Post contains images Stitch : Looks like AsiaFlyer called it.
138 gigneil : If its structurally identical then it means that it does. Lets be careful about calling this the A359R. There is an A350-900R on the roadmap already,
139 KarelXWB : Indeed. This de-rated A359 won't have a name, it will just be one of the many different MTOW models in the spec sheet.
140 Burkhard : What am I missing, thei thread is about the A330, not the A350...
141 art : I have not followed it all but I also wonder about all the references to the A350. As for the "regional" A330, up to what range would it provide bett
142 trex8 : Unless you need something in the next 3-4 years why even bother with a regional A330 if you can get the regional A359? The A359 should be more fuel ef
143 Stitch : Based on reports quoted up-thread, the "regional" A330 is just a modification to the current WV024 model with a slightly higher MTOW and MZFW. Such a
144 solarflyer22 : BOM is definitely congested and I've circled just waiting for a slot. I was thinking the same thing. By regional, I figured it would be longer with m
145 Post contains links Scipio : In this regard, Air Asia X's CEO Azran Osman-Rani recently made some interesting comments: - the A330 will remain at the core of Air Asia X's fleet "
146 KarelXWB : It won't, but as solarflyer22 pointed out, the 787-10 won't be in service until 2018, and won't be largely available until 2020. Everyone who needs s
147 tortugamon : It should be closer to five years. No mod necessary. tortugamon
148 columba : A350 with less range....seems that Airbus still has a shot winning LH´s widebody order this fall
149 lh526 : It also has to be llightweight and compact in size (wingspan, etc)
150 columba : No I meant instead of the 787-10 as an A340-300 replacement. LH complained that the A350 is designed for the Gulf carriers and that LH does not reall
151 airbazar : Payload and range are irrelevant for most airlines on short/medium haul missions. More fuel efficient? I'm not sure how much more on short/medium hau
152 Ruscoe : I agree with your reasoning but the unknown (to me anyway) is selling price When better competition arrives the manufacturers use price to continue s
153 Stitch : As Air Asia X flies their A330s with 9-abreast in Economy, I would expect the numbers to be closer to a 9-abreast 787. For those carriers that operat
154 Post contains links RubberJungle : Flightglobal broke the story a week before, on 22 July, although reading it needed a subscription: Singapore launches lower-weight 'regional' A350[Ed
155 Post contains images KarelXWB : You both are correct, 5 years until EIS but there will only be a handful deliveries in 2018, ramp-up in 2019 but the first 100 delivery slots are sol
156 tortugamon : I think we have seen sales for the A332 decline partially due to 787-8s coming into the market. I think we will see the same to the A333 when the 787
157 KarelXWB : For airlines taking 788s in the coming years yes, but that can't be the main reason because the 788 is sold out for a long period and there are enoug
158 KD5MDK : If only we had a chart of city-pairs and their passenger demand and distance so we could quickly discuss what markets are between 4000nm and 5000nm an
159 Stitch : I think it is more due to improvements to the A330-300. As Airbus cranks up the MTOW of the A330-300, it can do more and more of the missions formall
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