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Gimli Glider 30 Years Later  
User currently offlineFiedman From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 210 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 16794 times:

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/ID/2397825667/

it was 30 years ago today that AC 134 made an emergency landing at Gimli, Manitoba. According to this CBC feature that aired last night the aircraft was recently attempted to be auctioned off but no bidders bid for the aircraft. One hope was that someone could buy the aircraft and relocate it to Gimli.


Westjet - Canada's National Low-fare Airline
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16627 times:

That was one of the few miracles of aviation, that needs to be celebrated.......


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAC_B777 From Canada, joined Aug 2000, 809 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16511 times:

Quoting Fiedman (Thread starter):
it was 30 years ago today that AC 134

It was flt 143......



In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16270 times:

What could have been a terrible disaster turned out to be the 'miracle on the prairie', due to the skill of the pilots, that one of them knew of the former RCAF base at Gimli and some luck. It also led to improvements in procedures to make sure the right amount of fuel was put on when using different measuring systems.

One question I have is why did the nose gear collapse upon landing ?


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4120 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16145 times:

Wow, that is a very well-done piece by the CBC. Thanks for sharing it!

User currently offlineRGFC From Italy, joined Jul 2013, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 15997 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
One question I have is why did the nose gear collapse upon landing ?

As far as I remember the nose gear didn't fully extend: that's why it 'collapsed' upon landing (there was actually no proper nose 'gear')


User currently offlineMAN2SIN2BKK From Germany, joined Feb 2009, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 15975 times:

Very good programme; thanks for sharing it Fiedman

User currently offlinemarkalot From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 15872 times:

Really glad I watched that, thanks for sharing the link!


M a r k
User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1619 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 15834 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 4):
Wow, that is a very well-done piece by the CBC. Thanks for sharing it!

Indeed, nice piece by CBC! Thanks for sharing OP.



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 15556 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):

As RGFC said, the gear wasn't fully extended, because there was no hydraulics to lock it in place. They were dropped only by gravity IIRC.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3014 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15446 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
What could have been a terrible disaster turned out to be the 'miracle on the prairie', due to the skill of the pilots, that one of them knew of the former RCAF base at Gimli and some luck.

And the PIC (Bob Pearson) was a gliding instructor at a former WWII airbase near Hawkesbury, ON and was used to flying using steam gauges (the EFIS shut down). I was lucky enough to jumpseat with him on a LHR-YMX flight a couple of years after Gimli and got a first-hand account.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 15114 times:

Never did get to fly on her  

Very sad that Air Canada or the Government of Canada is showing such little respect or interest in preserving such a great piece of Canadian History.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25459 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14358 times:

Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 2):
Quoting Fiedman (Thread starter):
it was 30 years ago today that AC 134

It was flt 143......

And, 30 years later, AC143 still operates YOW-YEG at about the same times as in 1983, except today it's an Embraer 190.


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13469 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 11):

Actually Boeing should preserve it. As well as an aviation Historic moment, it serves well the museum and demonstrates the robustness of Boeing Engineering, just like Grumman , "The Ironworks."


User currently onlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3969 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13402 times:

Was there not a "made-for-tv" movie of this back in the late 80s/early 90s?


"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlinebeechnut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 726 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13120 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 10):
And the PIC (Bob Pearson) was a gliding instructor at a former WWII airbase near Hawkesbury, ON and was used to flying using steam gauges (the EFIS shut down). I was lucky enough to jumpseat with him on a LHR-YMX flight a couple of years after Gimli and got a first-hand account.

I'm a native of Hawkesbury ON. I met Capt. Pearson on a YVR-YYZ flight many years ago when flying on business (about 10 or so years after the incident).

He is a true gentleman, and a great pilot!

I've also flown on C-GAUN (tail 604) on several occasions.

Beech


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 12985 times:

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 14):

Yes, their was...


User currently onlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3969 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 12814 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 16):
Yes, their was...

Title......name.....?



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25459 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 12751 times:

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 17):
Title......name.....?
http://airodyssey.net/1998/07/01/movie-flt174/


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12592 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 12330 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
What could have been a terrible disaster turned out to be the 'miracle on the prairie', due to the skill of the pilots, that one of them knew of the former RCAF base at Gimli and some luck.

... and ...

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 10):

And the PIC (Bob Pearson) was a gliding instructor

... as was Sully Sullenberger, the PIC for the 'Miracle on the Hudson' ...

Maybe I'm biased, but IMHO glider piloting sure does teach basic airmanship very well.

I was told that the Boeing test pilot at the controls of the 777 in the well known videos of its cross wind landing limits test was a former student of one of my CFIGs...



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently onlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3969 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12058 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
Title......name.....?
http://airodyssey.net/1998/07/01/movie-flt174/

Thanks Viscount.



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlinecytz_pilot From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 569 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10706 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 11):
Very sad that Air Canada or the Government of Canada is showing such little respect or interest in preserving such a great piece of Canadian History.

I don't disagree with you, but I question whether either of those bodies are eager to show off the Gimli Glider as some kind of national trophy. The fact that the aircraft took off with insufficient fuel was a huge f*ckup by Air Canada, as a result of confusion over the metric system switchover (government-mandated). I know that's overly simplified, but perhaps the airline and the government would rather just let this one slide.


User currently offlineqblue From Canada, joined Jun 2004, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9835 times:

For a while I would see CGAUN at YVR along with Air Transat CGITS I think, both gliders. But one would be coming in and the other outbound, could never get a picture with the two together.

User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16285 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9340 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 1):
That was one of the few miracles of aviation, that needs to be celebrated.......

More like an averted disaster, not a miracle. Not an event to be celebrated. Acknowledged maybe, when in a fit of Canadiana trivia. But celebrated? No......

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 13):
Actually Boeing should preserve it.

Why Boeing? How is this in the interests of Boeing shareholders?

It seems no one is willing to pony up the $ to preserve this former government-owned asset. Time to dismantle this unwanted early model 762.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25459 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9221 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 23):
It seems no one is willing to pony up the $ to preserve this former government-owned asset.

It was owned by AC, not the government. I assume you're referring to AC still being government-owned when that aircraft was delivered but most of its many years of service with AC were after AC was privatized.

[Edited 2013-07-23 18:59:21]

[Edited 2013-07-23 18:59:54]

User currently offlineakelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2193 posts, RR: 5
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8655 times:

Great video, thanks for sharing!

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5003 posts, RR: 43
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8714 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
One question I have is why did the nose gear collapse upon landing ?
Quoting RGFC (Reply 5):
As far as I remember the nose gear didn't fully extend: that's why it 'collapsed' upon landing (there was actually no proper nose 'gear')
Quoting Quantos (Reply 9):
As RGFC said, the gear wasn't fully extended, because there was no hydraulics to lock it in place. They were dropped only by gravity IIRC.

Without full hydraulics, an Alternate Gear Extension had to be performed.

This is done electrically, and the crew "forgot" that it takes about 4 times longer than a hydraulic extension, and it never fully extended in time.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5176 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 23):
More like an averted disaster, not a miracle. Not an event to be celebrated. Acknowledged maybe, when in a fit of Canadiana trivia. But celebrated? No......

Considering how and where they landed....Im sure many will be celebrating......



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinetymnbalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 951 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 26):
Without full hydraulics, an Alternate Gear Extension had to be performed.

This is done electrically, and the crew "forgot" that it takes about 4 times longer than a hydraulic extension, and it never fully extended in time.

My understanding is that the nose gear's failure to lock was beneficial is that the nose of the aircraft provided the friction with which to stop the aircraft.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4393 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 23):
Why Boeing? How is this in the interests of Boeing shareholders?

Then scrap it!...why should Boeings museum keep anything ?


User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

Quite disappointing AC trying to distance itself much as possible from the incident. No honor or recognition by AC to Captain Pearson for preventing disaster. Guess 1983 was a bad year for AC (DC-9 fire in CVG) and they would rather forget that year.


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineTrnsWrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 944 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4004 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 23):


More like an averted disaster, not a miracle. Not an event to be celebrated. Acknowledged maybe, when in a fit of Canadiana trivia. But celebrated? No......

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 13):
Actually Boeing should preserve it.

Why Boeing? How is this in the interests of Boeing shareholders?

It seems no one is willing to pony up the $ to preserve this former government-owned asset. Time to dismantle this unwanted early model 762.


Ugh, some people are just so negative. I would swear by reading your posts I would think you hated aviation. I mean I understand what your saying and all, but come on you gotta admit that even though this entire issue was human error, the pilots did manage to land a 767 with no power is pretty awesome....and at an airport, sorta  


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25459 posts, RR: 22
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3759 times:

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 30):
Quite disappointing AC trying to distance itself much as possible from the incident.

Both Gimli glider pilots were invited to travel on the aircraft's final retirement flight to the desert in January 2008. A couple of the original cabin crew were also aboard. The flight operated YUL-TUS (to clear customs)-MHV. Made a low flypast at YUL after departure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MHy6yy3Z00

There was a photo somewhere of the crew in the cockpit before departure but I can't find it now.

[Edited 2013-07-29 11:23:34]

User currently offlinerobsaw From Canada, joined Dec 2008, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3593 times:

Quoting TrnsWrld (Reply 31):
Ugh, some people are just so negative. I would swear by reading your posts I would think you hated aviation. I mean I understand what your saying and all, but come on you gotta admit that even though this entire issue was human error, the pilots did manage to land a 767 with no power is pretty awesome....and at an airport, sorta

On the other-hand, the whole reason for the incident was a series of cascading human errors in relation to a mechanical fault that really does create a question of exactly what and whom should or should not be celebrated. A coincidence resulted in the aircraft being piloted by perhaps the most suited crew who did a masterful job of gliding a 767 to a relatively good landing and subsequent awards. The other more negative aspects are a final "blame" assignment to Air Canada but also suspensions to the pilots and a mechanic by AC with things like improperly updated fuel management procedures, leaving equipment in an improper state, MEL misinterpretation, metric-imperial conversion and data entry errors, and miscommunication between outgoing and incoming pilots.

Great flying - bad aircraft management.

[Edited 2013-07-29 12:29:10]

[Edited 2013-07-29 12:30:19]

User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

It's too bad there isn't a tracking system to find out what date and flights C-GAUN flew in and out of my airport YHZ.


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
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