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UPS Flight 6 Final Report  
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3123 posts, RR: 4
Posted (12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11497 times:

The General Civil Aviation Authority of the UAE released its final report today on the crash of UPS 6.

http://www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/ePublicati...571UP%20-%20Report%2013%202010.pdf


FLYi
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 748 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (12 months 3 days ago) and read 11298 times:

Very chilling to read the report. As the report mentions diverting to DOH only had very marginal benefits mainly being able to use the same frequency. The odds were stacked very high against the crew. May they rest in peace.

User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10750 times:

Thank you for posting...I do have to say, a very interesting read, if one has the time. I wish others would post these sort of articles instead of some the topics that people must dream up on these forums!

User currently onlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2752 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10659 times:
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Wow that was a tough read. The timing of the release is kind of weird personally. I work at UPS and was talking about the accident with coworkers the other night. We had a package come through labeled as containing lithium trying to go Next Day Air. Needless to say I caught it and ran it over to my Supervisor to make sure it was safe to go air. Which it wasn't. Be safe people! We may just carry boxes, but our pilots all want to go home at the end of the trip! Hopefully this accident is a big time learning experience for the industry and we can make transportation safer.
Pat



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineFlyMKG From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10601 times:

Read the condensed version over on APC. It's a terrible tragedy and a shame it didn't receive more coverage at the time of the accident. The two pilots fought like crazy until the end to get the crippled bird on the ground. Although HAZMAT can be a danger to all aircraft if improperly handled, it poses an even greater threat to cargo aircraft due to the larger amounts permitted. Hopefully UPS 6 & Asiana 991 will shed light on the different standards between passenger and cargo flights and lead to some standardization in the industry. May these two pilots forever experience tail winds and RIP.

FlyMKG



Essential Power, Operating Generator.
User currently offlinesimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 911 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10109 times:

Very close accident to me personally...my brother flew N571UP into DXB the day before, and flew Flight 6 to CGN the following day. I was working in dangerous goods cargo safety myself at the time.

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7175 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (12 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9902 times:

A hard read indeed, and very interesting timing given the nature of the discussion about Li-ion batteries these days....


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineplanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9093 times:

Chilling indeed - but it is truly amazing how the F/O was able to pretty much fly it all the way back to the runway in the single crew member/smoky environment ... almost.

The toxicology report didn't find any inidications of fire-induced airborne toxins in his blood either, so he was most likely alive at the time of the crash, which is very impressive considering the amount of smoke in the cockpit throughout the emergency. Had he been able to see out the cockpit window (he was not able to because of the smoke) he might have made it.

Hopefully the findings from this accident are able to ensure this type of cargo fire doesn't ever happen again.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlinehuxrules From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7659 times:

So if they would have left pack 1 on would they have been able to see to the landing?

User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 748 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7623 times:

Quoting planespotting (Reply 7):
Had he been able to see out the cockpit window (he was not able to because of the smoke) he might have made it.

There were too many issues due to the fire that it seems almost impossible to have had a survivable landing. The FO had very little elevator authority left; he could not see the radios, so was unable to tune to DXB ATC. That made it even more difficult for him to get situational awareness as all comms were relayed from other aircraft. There problems with speed brakes. That's what makes it sad. The pilots had almost nothing in their favor.

In my layman's opinion, HAZMAT and flying do not mix. "Ship" it.


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 889 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7165 times:
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Thanks for posting.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 3):
Needless to say I caught it and ran it over to my Supervisor to make sure it was safe to go air. Which it wasn't.

We can't? UPS University has some new modules and it seems like we can handle packages with lithium ion batteries, albeit in very definitive quantities and with specific label information.

[Edited 2013-07-25 12:13:00]


Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4036 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6970 times:

Quoting golfradio (Reply 9):
In my layman's opinion, HAZMAT and flying do not mix. "Ship" it.

If packaged properly there is quite little danger involved. The vast majority of accidents involving haz are the result of undeclared shipments and the resultant lack of special handling. Besides, with the urgency generally related to hazardous materials, slow shipment by ground or sea is often not feasible.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 10):
We can't? UPS University has some new modules and it seems like we can handle packages with lithium ion batteries, albeit in very definitive quantities and with specific label information.

With lithium, it's all about quantity. Things here at FX changed immediately after the UPS crash. There is a lot more careful documentation and inspection involved.


User currently offline747megatop From United States of America, joined May 2007, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6462 times:

Are similar shipments (similar to the one that caught fire) allowed in the cargo hold of passenger airliners? Chilling to think what would have happened if this was a passenger 747 or A380 instead. I think it is humanly impossible to inspect and verify each and every piece of cargo so i am wondering and trying to understand what measures are taken on passenger airliners to keep the passengers safe from such cargo.

User currently offlinesuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6389 times:

I didn't realize that there was so much time from the fire to the crash. I really thought it was more instantaneous than that.

It kind of surprises me there isn't a system, even an air pressure differential or something that pulls smoke out of the cockpit.

The FO might not have had much elevator control, but he had enough to descend from FL32 to 4,500 feet so I think with enough setup and clear site, he would have made it. I am not sure how dark it is in there, but it almost speaks for something like night vision goggles or something else attached to the oxygen mask that would give just some basic flight information (speed, heading, altitude, frequencies, ILS glide scope).



Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlinesuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6186 times:

Also thinking, should there not be an auto-pilot button that coordinates with RNAV/GPS / ILS to take the plane to the nearest airport with ILS and then perform an auto-land. So that even if visibility is completely gone, there is at least some hope. So the first item in the fire checklist could be to program or select "FIRE" mode in the GPS so that they can manually fly the aircraft until they can no longer see and then do something on the control column that would activate this mode.


Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently onlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2752 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6186 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Quoting ghifty (Reply 10):
We can't? UPS University has some new modules and it seems like we can handle packages with lithium ion batteries, albeit in very definitive quantities and with specific label information.

The package was really heavy and marked as having lithium but was going next day air. It was over the limit. Customer ended up having to send it ground.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 12):
Are similar shipments (similar to the one that caught fire) allowed in the cargo hold of passenger airliners?

They are more restrictive of what can be shipped on passenger aircraft.

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 13):
It kind of surprises me there isn't a system, even an air pressure differential or something that pulls smoke out of the cockpit.

It sounds like if Pack 1 was still running they would have had more vision in the cockpit but for some reason it was shut down.
Pat



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineplanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6163 times:

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 13):
It kind of surprises me there isn't a system, even an air pressure differential or something that pulls smoke out of the cockpit.

Well, according to the report, there is - but it's run by Pack 1 (and it should be able to keep the cockpit pressure greater than the pressure in the cabin outside), but it was reset and not working for some reason after the fire warnings appeared.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6134 times:

Even if they sucked out the oxygen in the cargo hold those pesky little devils will still burn and produce smoke like crazy ...

Poor guys, they fought a lost battle because once those burn, they are almost impossible to put out..

May they rest in peace.

TRB



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlinecjg225 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 765 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

Thanks for the post. There's no way I can understand all of that or get through it, but I skimmed some of it. Amazing what they were able to accomplish... Rest in Peace...


Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13028 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

I did a short pass through of the report and is it very through, very well done and answers most of questions we have about what happened with this flight. In reading the timeline and the words of the pilots, it must have been a terrifying experience. Fortunately, UPS 6 ended up crash landing in a place that meant no one killed on the ground.

I noted a significant part of the report discusses a lot of the research and testing done as to what failed lithium batteries can do in an aircraft, hopefully it confirms the need to make changes (some have already happened), as to high risk cargo. I also hope it causes improvements in cargo fire safety for crews, including better ways to reduce smoke intrusion into the cockpit, better mask systems and improved procedures if a fire condition exists.

I would note that the day this report was noted here, July 25, is the date in 2000 that saw the loss of the Concorde at CDG.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3123 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

132 aviation incidents involving batteries over a 20 year period, the vast majority involving lithium batteries.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...o/media/Battery_incident_chart.pdf

IMHO this is the greatest danger involving cargo ops.



FLYi
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

Why didn't they land at nearest Airport rather than continue to Dubai, isn't that the norm since Swissair accident, or is it only for passenger flights?

User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 783 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3254 times:
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Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 14):
Also thinking, should there not be an auto-pilot button that coordinates with RNAV/GPS / ILS to take the plane to the nearest airport with ILS and then perform an auto-land.




This is possible but the PF could not even see the MCDU to input an airport according to the report.

What is being skirted here is why wasn't the #1 pack running? It was mentioned earlier in the report that it tripped but was able to be reset. No mention after that??? Did it trip again?

For the 747 guys, can the #1 pack be put on MEL? I know we can on the 737, I would think that if the design is such to keep smoke out of the cockpit/safety it couldn't be.


User currently offline9MMPQ From Netherlands, joined Nov 2011, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3101 times:

Having read the report i am afraid that regulations would not have changed a thing in this case. Pages 206-211 give an oversight of shipments which were investigated further.

Three shipments were not identified as restricted materials while they should have been. These and a few other shipments also had other problems with supporting documentation not matching up to supposed content and batteries not having been tested as per UN standards. You can bet on it that these shipments were probably also incorrectly packaged for air transport leaving the door open for anything to happen which in this case likely turned into a worst scenario case. Deliberate or not, i have a hard time not calling this kind of negligence criminal.

Quoting 777way (Reply 21):
Why didn't they land at nearest airport rather than continue to Dubai ?

The report touches on that fact pointing out that the crew was not familiar with DOH and did not have the charts & ILS frequency for DOH immediately available so setting up for that would have taken them some more time. At the very best they would have made it into DOH 4 minutes earlier, of course that's with 20/20 hindsight. In any case it would not have changed much since the cockpit was already filled with smoke early on so the outcome would probably have been the same except for the difficulties in communication with ATC.

If you have a little bit of time i recommend reading it, it is very interesting. The sound analysis study part i did practically skip.



I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
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