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Is Filming Co-passengers Legal?  
User currently offlinetioloko100 From Australia, joined Jul 2012, 119 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6095 times:
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Some hours ago, a passenger posted a video of another passenger that was sleeping on board (which is normal and common) on YouTube.
There are thousands of people that sleep on planes daily and i don't think anyone should use this to make 15 minute of fame and everyone deserves his or her own privacy even while on board.

http://au.totaltravel.yahoo.com/news...-films-awkward-encounter-on-plane/

[Edited 2013-07-24 19:10:50]

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecjg225 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6067 times:

Not sure how it is elsewhere, but generally speaking, in America, if you're in a place where others can see you, it's perfectly legal for those others to take photos or video of you. It's only an invasion of privacy when your seclusion is intruded upon, which basically means something in which you'd have a reasonable expectation of privacy despite your being in public (like if someone took an up-skirt photo of a woman... or a guy in a kilt).   


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User currently onlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6057 times:

A plane cabin is a public place and there is no expectation of privacy. If you want privacy while travelling spring for a private jet or one of those F-class suites.

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2885 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5901 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 2):
A plane cabin is a public place and there is no expectation of privacy. If you want privacy while travelling spring for a private jet or one of those F-class suites

I can remember a time when the captain came on the P.A. system, and announced that O.J. Simpson was flying with us on a UA D10 IAD-LAX. This was before the White Bronco, when he was still a beloved sports hero. Talk about lack of privacy.



Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21103 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5735 times:

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
Some hours ago, a passenger posted a video of another passenger that was sleeping on board (which is normal and common) on YouTube.
There are thousands of people that sleep on planes daily and i don't think anyone should use this to make 15 minute of fame and everyone deserves his or her own privacy even while on board.

Passengers sleeping on board is common, yes. Passengers sleeping on other passengers while on board? Not so common.

If he'd filmed someone just sleeping normally in their seat, then I might say he'd crossed a line. But she was sleeping half out of her seat, and that changes things.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5429 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5656 times:

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
There are thousands of people that sleep on planes daily and i don't think anyone should use this to make 15 minute of fame and everyone deserves his or her own privacy even while on board.

No offense, but did you even watch the video? Would you rather he have shoved her, and caused a scene?

To answer your question, it is not illegal to record somebody where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. As the main cabin in a passenger airplane is a public area, there is no such thing as "privacy".



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8741 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5488 times:

Filming other passengers and making this film public on youtube without ntheir consent may not be punishable in some countries but it is disrespectful and insulting.

Simply bad manners. If someone would film me while sleeping and load this on youtube he would get mail from my lawyer. At least the face would have tro be pixeld.

OJ Simpson was and still is a person of public interest, all VIPs and celebreties are, most of them are attention whores anyway. I am not a person of public interest and want my privacy respected. It is my right.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5429 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5304 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
but it is disrespectful and insulting.

What's disrespectful and insulting is falling asleep on a complete stranger.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
If someone would film me while sleeping and load this on youtube he would get mail from my lawyer.

And I would throw it in the trash where it belongs. I might even file a complaint with whatever state bar he's licensed with, assuming it's a US lawyer.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
I am not a person of public interest and want my privacy respected. It is my right.

There is no right or expectation of privacy in public. If you want to be a private person, don't ever leave your house.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineUnflug From Germany, joined Jan 2012, 394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5297 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 5):
To answer your question, it is not illegal to record somebody where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. As the main cabin in a passenger airplane is a public area, there is no such thing as "privacy".

According to German law this clip would be clearly illegal without consent of the subject being filmed, so the answer to the question in the OP would depend on the carrier and applicable law.

Regardless of the legal situation it can be very rude to publish pictures and movie sequences of individuals without their consent.

In addition to the law, carriers can set rules regarding this matter in their contract of carriage. As far as I remember from some previous threads I think at least some carriers do so.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8741 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5244 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 7):
There is no right or expectation of privacy in public. If you want to be a private person, don't ever leave your house.

[
Unflug gave you the answer already.

Quoting Unflug (Reply 8):
Regardless of the legal situation it can be very rude to publish pictures and movie sequences of individuals without their consent.

Even in countries where the individual rights are not protected, which may be the case in the US., it is rude and reckless to film strangers and it is even more so when such footage is published, like on youtube.

Looks like good manners are a thing of the past or, worse, never have been learned by some.



]



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineFlyingAY From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 697 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5183 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
Filming other passengers and making this film public on youtube without ntheir consent may not be punishable in some countries but it is disrespectful and insulting.

For once I find I fully agree with you.  

However, this is a matter that is handled differently in different countries. It's important to realize which country's law applies in the plane. What is ok in US, might not be ok in Finland.

Another thing to note is that there 2 very different things: 1) taking a photograph AND 2) publishing a photograph. In Finland you can photograph almost anything that you can see (some exceptions for privacy do apply of course), but you have to be much more careful when actually publishing the photo. For example it is ok to take a photo of a person who has passed out on the street, but it might not be ok to publish a photo like this.


User currently onlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4845 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5043 times:

Plus there are some blokes that may take great offense at you filming them. If I was in the UK I definitely wouldn't point a camera at a Chav at anytime. I have an aversion to being roughed up on a flight.


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6109 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Definitely illegal in French law. Even things can be illegal to publish (for example the many works of art ornamenting our millions of roundabouts).


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

Quoting Unflug (Reply 8):
According to German law this clip would be clearly illegal without consent of the subject being filmed, so the answer to the question in the OP would depend on the carrier and applicable law.

In The Netherlands filming is not illegal, but you cannot make a film public without the consent of the subject being filmed. The only exception is when the film is "newsworthy" or if the person is not the subject.


User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1388 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

In US it is depends on the State you are video taping. Interestingly video taping without audio in a public place is allowed in all States. In most States you cannot record audio without all party consent. Only a handful of States allow single party consent for audio recording.

User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4322 times:

It may be legal but its down right rude and inappropriate!


My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5429 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4304 times:

Quoting Unflug (Reply 8):

According to German law this clip would be clearly illegal without consent of the subject being filmed

How do you explain CCTV?



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2806 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 7):
There is no right or expectation of privacy in public.

Believe it or not, many countries, including Canada, have different laws than the U.S. Guess why Google street view blurs faces and registration plates. In Canada, it is tortious to publish an image of a person without their consent unless they are a "principal" in a "newsworthy event".

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 16):
How do you explain CCTV?

Simple - the images are not published to the world at large.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24080 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4054 times:

Quoting Unflug (Reply 8):
According to German law this clip would be clearly illegal without consent of the subject being filmed

Also illegal in Switzerland. Even the license plates of vehicles are blurred out in newspaper photos of car accidents etc.


User currently offlinerobsaw From Canada, joined Dec 2008, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 2):
A plane cabin is a public place and there is no expectation of privacy. If you want privacy while travelling spring for a private jet or one of those F-class suites.

Actually no it is a shared conveyance operated by a private entity which can set rules and policies for actions taken by the passengers onboard. For instance, American Airlines policy:
“Use of still and video cameras, film or digital, is permitted only for recording personal events. Photography or video recording of airline personnel, equipment, or procedures is strictly prohibited.“

While it doesn't specifically prohibit filming of others, it does limit it to "personal events", which would in my reading exclude recording of other passengers without their permission whereas airline personnel cannot even give permission under this policy without some corporate level waiver.


User currently offlineProst From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3896 times:

The question I have is:

Why would you want to? Why does every moment of some people's lives need to be recorded? Everything that happens to you (including someone falling asleep on you) doesn't need to be put on the internet.


User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3783 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3664 times:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 14):
In most States you cannot record audio without all party consent. Only a handful of States allow single party consent for audio recording.

You have that backwards. 12 states are all party consent states. The other 38 states and the District of Columbia are single party consent states. These rules apply to both telephone conversations and in-person conversations.

source

Quoting robsaw (Reply 19):
Actually no it is a shared conveyance operated by a private entity which can set rules and policies for actions taken by the passengers onboard.

I don't think that makes a difference. I live in a one party consent state. If I'm in my home, that's considered a private place. But someone else in my state could still call me on the phone and legally record the conversation without my knowledge.

Airlines can put all kinds of stuff in their carriage of contract, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily going to be upheld in a court of law.

LoneStarMike


User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3011 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3592 times:

The OP answered own question. If he thought it is an invasion of privacy, he would not have posted the specific link.


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8741 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (8 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3456 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 16):
How do you explain CCTV?

On a company yard, a truck bumped into my parked car. Only because of the good relations I have with that company they released footage of the incident.

Even the buildings outside their premises had been pixeled.. CCTV coverage is for proper use by authorities only. Data storage is governed by law and extremely restricted.

Mug shots with personal data published in local papers are unthinkable.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3401 times:
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Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
If someone would film me while sleeping and load this on youtube he would get mail from my lawyer. At least the face would have tro be pixeld.

I would agree with you, but at the same time consider there's probably very little I would not do to forcibly remove you if you fell asleep on me like she did. You might even wish all I did was post your sweet dreams for all to see on youtube.

Quoting robsaw (Reply 19):
While it doesn't specifically prohibit filming of others, it does limit it to "personal events"

Someone falling asleep in your lap is very much personal... I highly doubt the sleeping passenger would have a recourse under AA's policies.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 21):
These rules apply to both telephone conversations and in-person conversations.

Courts also consider whether people had a reasonable expectation of privacy. On a plane, in coach, I highly doubt it...



I've got $h*t to do
25 tugger : I would have informed her there was an issue. No ruckus needed, just a polite, consistent nudging to wake her up and let her know. How much control d
26 PanHAM : That is not the title of the thread. No question that this woman behaves strange, so what's the problem , wake her up and if that does not help call
27 Post contains images Grisee08 : Get a load of this cat behind me. Apparently, taking a picture of myself was not something he wanted to happen. He did what he wanted to do, and didn
28 gemuser : Only if the aircraft had a "D" (or other EU nationality mark) on the outside. If it had an "N" or a "VH" and other nationality marks, you couldn't ta
29 Post contains images Unflug : Not only that, in German law there are more restrictions to CCTV. The rules are set in BDSG § 6b, if anyone is interested in Details
30 PanHAM : suits me fine, I don't fly N registered since the early 2000s. However., I doubt that a German court would make that distinction, rather they could n
31 gemuser : Then you have to prove (I assume) WHO made it available. In common law countries that could be a night mare. Is it different in Germany? Gemuser[Edit
32 PanHAM : No, very simple, it is youtube that has the problem. I do not have to care who uploaded the file on youtube. If I do not want my nose shown on a video
33 Post contains images Maverick623 : If I (as a US citizen) have video of you, recorded in the US, and uploaded to a US server and in compliance with the laws of the US and the state whe
34 PanHAM : A lot of videos on youtube that are filmed in the US by US citizens uploaded on US servers etc. are not accessible in Germany because the owners of ri
35 Maverick623 : That's fine and dandy. German laws are not enforceable on actions that a US citizen takes wholly in the US. Your lawyer can file all the legal paperw
36 Aesma : Recently I was filmed and photographed a couple of times at a "seminar" a company organized, for internal usage. Even for such they had everybody pres
37 PanHAM : Maverick, there is a planet outside the US, believe it or not. The owners of this site know that, every time I check in here, ads in German and for G
38 HAWK21M : As long as the person photographed/filmed does not object to it.
39 Maverick623 : Yep. And German law only applies to German citizens and for actions that take place in Germany. What has that got to do with anything? I neither host
40 Viscount724 : I would think German law would apply to all passengers on a German carrier while the flight is airborne worldwide (or on the ground in Germany), rega
41 Maverick623 : Yes, but I am referring to an act on a US carrier operating in the US, with any publication of images taking place in the US.
42 PanHAM : my God is this complicated. I am not talking about a crime but a civil suit and if you take a video on an aircraft or anywhere showing me and publish
43 Maverick623 : There is nothing complicated about it. You threatened to sue anybody who posted a video with your face in it, and arrogantly claimed that you would b
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