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Ryanair Leaves Pax Behind For 10 Days  
User currently offlinecuban8 From Kiribati, joined Sep 2009, 282 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 5 months 14 hours ago) and read 15175 times:

According to Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet, a Ryanair flight which was supposed to take place yesterday evening between Treviso (Italy) and Stockholm Skavsta (Sweden) got cancelled due to bad weather over the departure airport.

Passengers were not given any alternative for hotel, food or any other transportation and therefore spent the night at the airport. The only available information to the passengers is that Ryanair can not find an aircraft in Italy until 10 days later. If any improvement, they would get back to the passengers.

Nowadays, nobody is really surprised about this news when it comes to Ryanair. We also know that you get what you pay for. Still I think these events keeps getting worse and worse and that nobody really cares. Bad weather can not be blamed on any company, but 10 days for a return flight with no other options? What are your thoughts?

Article only in Swedish:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article17190320.ab

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecipango From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 752 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 13 hours ago) and read 15060 times:

I thought Ryanair got a slap on the wrist recently and had to apologise after the treatment of their passengers during the Volcanic Ash problem.

They now have to display clearly on their website the EU regulations of a delayed flights etc.

Surely it would be cheaper for FR to pay for their passengers to fly an alternative airline rather than face the risk of having to pay Hotel & Food for 10 days?


User currently offlineacelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 857 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 13 hours ago) and read 15061 times:

Recently when the French ATC where on strike Ryanair cancelled the weekly ACE-BOH flight...no idea where the pass went on either sector as I suspect the following weeks flight was already fairly full. I guess its the risk you take.


from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineshufflemoomin From Denmark, joined Jun 2010, 480 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 13 hours ago) and read 15029 times:

Quoting cuban8 (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts?

Ryanair provide no customer service, they have no interest in doing so. They simply don't care about passengers and pull this sort of stunt way more regularly than any other airline. People still choose to take the gamble and fly with them and sometimes this happens. It shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9746 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 13 hours ago) and read 15010 times:

I am not a firend of the high EU compensations, but it isa the duty of a carrier to fill the contract and that is, getting tha pax from A to B in due time. Which means they have to book them on other carriers and if necessary from VCE on LH.

I would not wait 10 days, buying a ticket on LH or others is more economical anyhow. I could get that money back, however, the problem is, does FR has a legal adress in germany ? I think not. Not sure if they could be sued here but in case they can, this would be a clear winner for the passengers and if FR does not pay, , well, they fly their assets in and out on a daily basis and a bailliff could disrupt that.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 10 hours ago) and read 14187 times:

With reference to http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...rv.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0261:EN:HTML

Article 5 refers to article 8 and says

"... passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a)...
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity"

So looks like the passengers have a good claim against ryanair and there's the http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/jud...ascivil/html/sc_information_en.htm to help them do it

Some times you just gotta love the EU.

[Edited 2013-07-25 06:21:43]

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5945 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 14120 times:

Quoting richardw (Reply 5):
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity

The problem, of course, if that the passengers "final destination" is NYO, not ARN. If FR were to re-book the passengers on LH (yeah, like that's happening) then they would be providing a service that they had not contracted to provide, and therefore had no legal obligation to do so.

"Let's kill all the lawyers"   



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 14104 times:

Quoting cuban8 (Thread starter):
Bad weather can not be blamed on any company, but 10 days for a return flight with no other options? What are your thoughts?

Ryanair is collecting millions in EU 261 levys. Where is all that money going, if not to pay for what they're responsible for under current legislation?

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryana...-50-euro-following-eu-court-ruling



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 13961 times:

This describes what I have had happen to me three (3) times on AA, though not ten days (they never did admit to when they might be able to get me home).

Once, at SFO, when they suggested they *might* be able to accommodate my family and me in "three or four days" after a flight cancellation, and that "there are no other flights on other carriers available." I found seats on a UAL flight the next day, and AA (grudgingly) paid for them - but I had to find them!

Another time, at SNA, they cancelled flight to DFW and did nothing (I mean, nothing at all) to accommodate the bunch of pax whose plans were thus disrupted - quick action would have allowed for many (including us) to be re-routed via LAX, but the agents on the ground at SNA could not be bothered. I ended up having to buy $1200 of America West walk-up fare to get home.

Then, AA canceled a flight from SHV to DFW, stranding three clients and me there; cancellation was for "weather," but the weather was not cancellation-worthy. They said their flights were all booked up for five days. We ended up renting a Hyundai and driving to DFW.

Common theme: canceled flights, and minimal concern for the passengers' issues.

Fair's fair, I have also seen AA step right up in irregular ops circumstances, too. All depends (it appears) upon whom you encounter on a particular day.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently onlinelh526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2381 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 13904 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
The problem, of course, if that the passengers "final destination" is NYO, not ARN. If FR were to re-book the passengers on LH (yeah, like that's happening) then they would be providing a service that they had not contracted to provide, and therefore had no legal obligation to do so.

Why not? In that case a bus-shuttle ordered and paid for by FR has to wait for the pax in ARN for the onward journey to NYO!



Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 13823 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
... the passengers "final destination" is NYO, not ARN. If FR were to re-book the passengers on LH..... then they would be providing a service that they had not contracted to provide, and therefore had no legal obligation to do so.

The regulation clearly states 'comparable transport conditions' some may say a flight to ARN and road transport to NYO, could be reasonably 'comparable conditions'.

Their legal obligation is to get them to NYO and that is what they must do.

[Edited 2013-07-25 07:19:01]

[Edited 2013-07-25 07:23:47]

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 13775 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
Ryanair is collecting millions in EU 261 levys. Where is all that money going, if not to pay for what they're responsible for under current legislation?

  
While I'm generally an FR supporter, this situation is not really acceptable. Routinely collecting levys should ensure that passengers are accommodated in situations like these, and clearly ten days is not reasonable. Neither is a default situation of having people shell out for hotels and the like, to then 'claim back'. I'd also be interested to know whether their hard-sold travel insurance would cover such instances.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 13735 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
I'd also be interested to know whether their hard-sold travel insurance would cover such instances.

The small print of some policies may sort of say 'excluding obligations that an airline is responsibly for with regard to EU Reg EC 261/2004'


User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6948 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 13471 times:

What happens when weather diversions happen with Ryanair ? Do they fly to the nearest airport with acceptable weather or do they go to the cheapest in the middle of nowhere with grass strip one ? Then do they get you to the destination by road ?


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineb777erj145 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 13162 times:

I think you guys can help me over this. If the flight was already at Treviso why can't it leave for Stockholm when the weather was over or next day? Am I missing something?

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 13043 times:

Quoting b777erj145 (Reply 14):
If the flight was already at Treviso why can't it leave for Stockholm when the weather was over or next day? Am I missing something?

Yes, you are. You're missing the fact that the aircraft already has a schedule for the next day, and can't simply bin that off to fly out to rescue pax from one cancelled flight, playing constant catch up with its planned movements.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 11549 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
Yes, you are. You're missing the fact that the aircraft already has a schedule for the next day, and can't simply bin that off to fly out to rescue pax from one cancelled flight, playing constant catch up with its planned movements.

However, that why some airlines charter a relief airplane or use a spare (which an airline like FR must surely have). I know, it's the busiest period, but if a normal charter airline can get a plane, so can FR. It's a matter of how much you value your customers and what the possibility is that they're going to sue you over EU 261. The only problem I see is that this behaviour by FR will result in more anti-airline measures which impact other airlines as well.

BTW KL have a few MD11s left which don't do anything, maybe they can help?


User currently offlinegazzadon From United Kingdom, joined May 2013, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 11266 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 16):

BA and Air Lingus use Titan Airways for help plus so does other airlines. If they got a spare plane it can be staffed and ready within a hour. Why dont they use them.


User currently offlineBA777 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2181 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 10695 times:

Price. I bet it isn't cheap! FR do have spares but they often get used up anyway, given that doing 1600 flights a day with 300+ aircraft is never going to run 100% perfectly.

User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1331 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 9569 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
Yes, you are. You're missing the fact that the aircraft already has a schedule for the next day, and can't simply bin that off to fly out to rescue pax from one cancelled flight, playing constant catch up with its planned movements.

Yes, but the whole fleet is on the ground during the night, downtimes vary between 6 and 9 hours in general. So it shouldn't be impossible to find an aircraft at one of their many bases, operate a positioning flight to TSF in the late evening/early night, operate TSF-NYO during the night, and finally another positioning flight to the base were the aircraft came from and just in time for it's first scheduled flight of the day.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineflyingbird From Sweden, joined Mar 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 9548 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
The problem, of course, if that the passengers "final destination" is NYO, not ARN.

Final destination according to Ryanair is STOCKHOLM (yes, Ryanair refers to NYO as Stockholm). So if pax are sent to NYO or ARN, makes no big difference in this case, as both are "Stockholm".


User currently offlinedebonair From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2470 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 8980 times:

Quoting cuban8 (Thread starter):
The only available information to the passengers is that Ryanair can not find an aircraft in Italy until 10 days later. If any improvement, they would get back to the passengers.

I think this is a miscommunication...

Ryanair is tried to find an alternative a/c (which obviously failed) and therefore canceled the flight.
In such case FR policy is offering free re-booking to the NEXT AVAILABLE FLIGHT, which seems to be in 10 days.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9746 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

...well, that would be unacceptable even if FR would accept the hotel costs and pay a daily allowance.

The law says that the carroier is obliged to carry the passengers to their destination in due time. Due time is one or two days and even than passengers have the right to be compesated on top of hotel and refreshment expenses.

IMHO it mwould be no big problem to find space on flights between VCE or MIL and STO on other carriers and have them all at their destination a day later.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5945 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5833 times:

Quoting flyingbird (Reply 20):
Final destination according to Ryanair is STOCKHOLM

They market the destination as Stockholm, but their legal obligation is still to get you to NYO.

That said...

Quoting lh526 (Reply 9):
Why not? In that case a bus-shuttle ordered and paid for by FR has to wait for the pax in ARN for the onward journey to NYO!

...this had completely slipped my mind. You are, of course, correct!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4615 times:

Quoting debonair (Reply 21):
FR policy is offering free re-booking to the NEXT AVAILABLE FLIGHT,

FR has to comply with EU Regulation EC261/2004 with regards to its obligations to passengers, its own policies can't over rule this. Passengers must be re-routed at the earliest opportunity, not the next available ryanair operated flight.


25 LJ : If FR needs 10 days (and they can prove that there is really no alternative to this) then they would have to look at other mode of transport which is
26 pa747sp : Might not just be a matter of aircraft. They might have crewing issues.
27 PanHAM : FR must send this passengers back home within a reasonable time. 10 days is anything but not reaqsonable. Even a bus, which would take may be 3 days i
28 Post contains images aerdingus : I reckon with such a long flight the crew went out of hours waiting on slots. I flew 3 days that week, & was delayed 2+ hrs on each way of each f
29 Post contains images sebolino : I flew with Ryanair for the first time last week to London with my family. Well, I won't do it again. The simple fact that you have to "fight" for sea
30 adriaticflight : Shame. Ryanair get my business at least monthly. And they provide a great service given their size. This all sounds like anti-Ryanair propaganda gone
31 ltbewr : I could understand a 48 hour delay, but 10 days is unacceptable and against the spirit of the EU rules. At the least, they should bus the stranded pax
32 RussianJet : There's no real 'fighting' - everyone has a seat. Personally I don't really care where I sit if the price is right. There's your problem. It's fine i
33 Post contains images sebolino : Yes that's the point. At the gate, you can see (and feel) people trying to enter before the others to have a seats next to one another for their kids
34 DocLightning : For me, what defines "good service" isn't pretty F/A's or good food or whether I get an assigned seat. It's how the company handles a screw-up. WN ha
35 RussianJet : I usually wait until last and take what's left - I see no point in joining the scrum and wasting time standing in a queue. I can understand that. i g
36 awacsooner : Considering their CEO has done some questionable things in the past...and their style of customer service is borderline unethical at worst, I don't t
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