Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AF/KL : More Cost Cutting Measures Announced  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1986 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12067 times:

The measures to be taken are not very clear : "The airline said the plan would include voluntary departures as well as industrial and commercial initiatives."

How is the management expecting to seduce someone to make a " voluntary departure" in the current scenario with jobless numbers rising all over Europe ?

And what kind of industrial and commercial actions are they planning ? ....Would the in flight experience be the next victim of the cost cutting fever ?

Thoughts??

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1374819588.html


Rgds.
G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinevarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11175 times:

Voluntary departure can work if you are 50 something of age and AF gives you a big check to help you terminate you house loan, otherwise I agree with you....who wants to voluntary leave nowadays....and being an ex-AF is not necessarily positive on the market.

The "industrial action" is probably a sophisticated term for what will happen: it's now out of the bag that some lines will be transferred to Transavia, meaning some AF employees will be given the opportunity to leave the real AF and become Transavia employees.

Just an idea, but I wonder if at the end of the day all the flights "la navette" at ORY (domestic flights between French big cities and ORY) will be transferred to a parallel structure where you can utilize better/more the crew and airplanes, it could be Transavia or a new "la navette France". Staff would not be real AF staff anymore meaning more hours, less corporate advantages, etc



AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE
User currently offlinemozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2168 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11127 times:

Why does AFKL only act on the cost side? Do they do anything to increase the top line? Or have they decided to remain an only mildly attractive carrier and see the big spend go to other competitors?

User currently offlinesebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11069 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
How is the management expecting to seduce someone to make a " voluntary departure" in the current scenario with jobless numbers rising all over Europe ?

Well, we know what means "volontary departure". They will offer incentives for people ready to leave the group, but if they can't find enough people, the volontary part will disappear ...
If some people can find a job before leaving, or if they have already a project of enterprise creation, this system can be very interesting. For other people, it has generally no real interest.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10885 times:

Quoting mozart (Reply 2):
Why does AFKL only act on the cost side? Do they do anything to increase the top line? Or have they decided to remain an only mildly attractive carrier and see the big spend go to other competitors?

To do anything but control costs is only going to increase risk. To throw money at the potential to increase return is likely not a position AFKL are in right now.

This would take substantial additional investment and change that can often take a few years to see any benefit.


User currently offlinePH-BFA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10744 times:

Quoting mozart (Reply 2):
Why does AFKL only act on the cost side? Do they do anything to increase the top line? Or have they decided to remain an only mildly attractive carrier and see the big spend go to other competitors?

KLM has introduced a new business class (first aircraft is currently being retrofitted) and AF will unveil new business and first class cabins next year. KLM also became a Skytrax 4 star airline again just recently.

PH-BFA


User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 708 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10528 times:

Quoting PH-BFA (Reply 5):
first aircraft is currently being retrofitted

Slightly off-topic (sorry) but indeed...

Aircraft is PH-BFB, new businessclass debuts tomorrow (28th) on KL605 to SFO, departure: 09:50(Local)

Thereafter a new 747 will follow every 2 weeks



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7136 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10414 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
How is the management expecting to seduce someone to make a " voluntary departure" in the current scenario with jobless numbers rising all over Europe ?

Europe has a government social structure which provides benefits to jobless persons, the voluntary package offered by AF/KLM combined with government support may be attractive to someone who has worked for 10 to 20 years, time to get a break.
It is not always about the max amount of money one can receive, if your bills are being paid and you are comfortable without having to get up everyone morning and go on the job for 8 to 10 hours...........


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6607 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10146 times:

That only works if you're pretty sure you can get a job after your "sabbatical", not really realistic in current times.

In France "voluntary departure" has often meant "early retirement". I know several people who have retired at 55 that way (and they were not pilots or miners), and now the national pension system is deep in the red...



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinesebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9965 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 7):
Europe has a government social structure which provides benefits to jobless persons, the voluntary package offered by AF/KLM combined with government support may be attractive to someone who has worked for 10 to 20 years, time to get a break.

You have some part of your former salary during a few months, then nothing ... I don't think it's a very tempting situation when it's so hard to find another job.


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7136 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9922 times:

Quoting sebolino (Reply 9):
You have some part of your former salary during a few months,

If it is early retirement one would commence receiving pension benefits.

Quoting sebolino (Reply 9):
then nothing ...

This is the government portion I was talking about, if one has been in the labour force for a number of years they are also entitled to benefits.
Early retirement can serve multiple benefits for government and private industry, create more avenues for advancement for new staff, lower the cost of employment as new staff usually cost less, tax payors pick up the benefits of "old folks" so private industry can continue and grow.

Now in nations where government is the largest employer you will have a more serious problem, hence the mantra that it is always better for government to control the economy by laws, rules and regulations versus being an active participant as a major employer.


User currently offlinebmibaby737 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1806 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9807 times:

Quoting starbucks (Reply 6):
Aircraft is PH-BFB, new businessclass debuts tomorrow (28th) on KL605 to SFO, departure: 09:50(Local)

Off-topic I know, but has the configuration changed for the aircraft or is it just a refresh with the same seating config?


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6607 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9751 times:

Well here the pension system is that people working pay for retired people, you don't put money aside for your retirement (well you can, but on top of the significant contributions taken from your paycheck regardless). So if you make working people retire early, you instantly create an imbalance, less people paying into the system, while more are living off it.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 876 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9515 times:

The number of seats in KLM World Business Class will be reduced from 42 to 35 aboard the Boeing 747-400.

http://nieuws.klm.com/klm-nieuw-cabi...full-flat-world-business-class-en/


User currently offlineAF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8685 times:

AF seems to be on right track. Cost-cuttings and Transform Plan helping to generate an expected profit this year, while also focusing on a major product improvement to be initiated as of 2014.

The additional measures will be focusing on Medium-Haul ops as well as cargo, which are still struggling.

From Bloomberg:

Quote:
While progress on the Transform 2015 cost-savings program is on schedule, the company plans “additional major measures” from 2014 to address lagging performance in medium-haul passenger operations as well as in cargo, Juniac said. Those will be announced in the autumn.

“Short- and medium-haul operations are not a lost cause,” Juniac said, pointing to improvements KLM had made in its European network. Air France has already sought to lower costs with the introduction of Hop!, a low-cost, point-to-point operation. The savings plans will improve use of the capacities of low-cost subsidiary Transavia in France, Air France CEO Frederic Gagey said today.

Whole story here: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ofit-on-cost-cuts-and-traffic.html

As for the early voluntary retirement plan, it is a tricky calculation for employees:
-> Early retirement $ incentives Vs. number of years left to regular retirement (salary + seniority bonus)
-> Medical checks: if someone has doubts on his/her ability to pass the annual health checks, you might consider accepting this plan as losing his/her license means 0 bonus / incentives anymore (real factor especially for senior staff)
-> Trust in future: this plan with incentives might simply be cancelled if not working well enough and if AF keeps losing $ ; in addition, it is not excluded the French government could increase tax on those early retirement $ bonus


User currently offlineAlsatian From France, joined May 2005, 422 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 8121 times:

Some AF / HOP routes are not bookable from september : LYS-BCN , BOD-BCN , SXB-VIE or SXB-VCE. Not official yet but if these cancellations are comfirmed that could be a result of the next cost-cutting plan.

Current schedules :

AF 5488 / A5 4602 LYS 0835 - 0955 BCN 123456- CRJ
AF 5464 / A5 4606 LYS 1535 - 1655 BCN 12345-7 CRJ
AF 5460 / A5 4608 LYS 2005 - 2125 BCN 12345-7 CRJ

AF 5300 / A5 3224 BOD 1545 - 1650 BCN 12345-7 ER4

AF 5471 / A5 3502 SXB 1015 - 1140 VIE -2-4-6-- ER4

AF 5452 / AZ 7369 SXB 1025 - 1140 VCE 1---5-- ER4



Ok I am French but I am not on strike
User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1841 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 8068 times:

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 15):
Some AF / HOP routes are not bookable from september : LYS-BCN , BOD-BCN , SXB-VIE or SXB-VCE. Not official yet but if these cancellations are comfirmed that could be a result of the next cost-cutting plan.

BCN-LYS and BCN-BOD are indeed axed from sept 2. It was posted yesterday on AF travel agent portal. There was no mention of the 2 other routes you mentioned.


User currently offlineAlsatian From France, joined May 2005, 422 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 8030 times:

Quoting goldorak (Reply 16):
BCN-LYS and BCN-BOD are indeed axed from sept 2. It was posted yesterday on AF travel agent portal. There was no mention of the 2 other routes you mentioned.

Thank you. Any other interessant news in this AF travel agent portal ?



Ok I am French but I am not on strike
User currently offlinemozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2168 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 2 hours ago) and read 7849 times:

Quoting AF185 (Reply 14):

AF seems to be on right track. Cost-cuttings and Transform Plan helping to generate an expected profit this year

I agree that the direction is right. But I remain skeptical that the magnitude is sufficient. The half year results that they just published to not look good at all. Better than last year, but still bleeding a lot.¨

Quoting AF185 (Reply 14):
while also focusing on a major product improvement to be initiated as of 2014.

What other product improvements will there be other than the limited roll-out of a new longhaul Business Class cabin? Do they have plans that go beyond that?


User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 620 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month ago) and read 7684 times:

Quoting mozart (Reply 2):
Quoting mozart (Reply 18):
I remain skeptical that the magnitude is sufficient. The half year results that they just published to not look good at all. Better than last year, but still bleeding a lot.¨

It depends on how you read these results, as always : haven't they posted a positive result for this second quarter (the first time in 5 years), reduced their debt and increased their cash flow? But we agree this is not sufficient : their medium-haul ops are still loss-making, mostly due to AF P2Ps within Europe. Their cost base is not competitive yet. They are getting ready to transfer these ops to Hop! and Transavia hence the announced measures.


Quoting mozart (Reply 18):
What other product improvements will there be other than the limited roll-out of a new longhaul Business Class cabin? Do they have plans that go beyond that?

Yes, AF will update not only its business class, but all the classes of service (which means more Champagne for everyone according to this video!) We will see... http://corporate.airfrance.com/en/pr...e-upgrades-its-long-haul-services/



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlinemozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2168 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7383 times:

Interesting, thanks for that.

So they will improve the product on longhaul and at the same time compete with LCC on shorthaul? What about transfer passengers that use longhaul and then shorthaul flights?

Regarding how to read their financial results: I read them the same way you do. THey have improved a lot, but are still weak. If they weren't there wouldn't be a reason to initiative further cost reduction measures and job cuts.

My gut tells me that with the customer base and yield mix that they have they would need to radically change their entire model. AF is no longer what BA and LH/LX still are, i.e. network carriers with a very very big portion of premium class passengers. AF (and KL?) are more and more an Eco carrier with a smallish add-on in premium classes. That hurts revenues, and indeed their latest numbers show that the average revenue per ticket has decreased by almost 2%. They had launched some "MiNi" fares to compete with LCCs. Result: planes filled up, but with passengers whose LCC yield is not sufficient to cover the high costs of a legacy airline.

So they have a choice to either cut costs but by much much more and try to become an LCC so as to match their revnue structure which resembles more and more that of an LCC - but their employees won't like that, already now the unions are on record with their opposition against what they call "becoming more and more like an LCC and against increasing outsourcing". Or they choose to do something to do something and become more attractive to high yield pax, that howvever will cost money, which they don't have right now especially as they are making a very successful effort to reduce their debt. Not a comfortable situation to be in.

[Edited 2013-07-31 00:26:24]

User currently offlineAF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7227 times:

Quoting mozart (Reply 20):
Regarding how to read their financial results: I read them the same way you do. THey have improved a lot, but are still weak. If they weren't there wouldn't be a reason to initiative further cost reduction measures and job cuts.

A committee is actually held today at AF with the unions, and a further early retirement plan is expected to be announced. Around 2,500 to 3,000 staff are rumored not to be replaced, and additional measure will be taken to reduce costs especially on medium haul and cargo activities.
All the details will further be submitted on 4th October.

Quoting mozart (Reply 20):
AF is no longer what BA and LH/LX still are, i.e. network carriers with a very very big portion of premium class passengers. AF (and KL?) are more and more an Eco carrier with a smallish add-on in premium classes

The new CEO wants to "re-position" AF as it should be: a premium oriented legacy. Hence all the products improvements planned on the Long Haul ops as of next year. As for the short/medium haul ops, AF has no choice but go lower cost in order to compete with the LCC's. I believe having a Premium long haul product allied with a low cost short/medium haul can be compatible and makes sense considering the competition


User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 963 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7010 times:

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 15):
AF 5488 / A5 4602 LYS 0835 - 0955 BCN 123456- CRJ
AF 5464 / A5 4606 LYS 1535 - 1655 BCN 12345-7 CRJ
AF 5460 / A5 4608 LYS 2005 - 2125 BCN 12345-7 CRJ

AF 5300 / A5 3224 BOD 1545 - 1650 BCN 12345-7 ER4

AF 5471 / A5 3502 SXB 1015 - 1140 VIE -2-4-6-- ER4

AF 5452 / AZ 7369 SXB 1025 - 1140 VCE 1---5-- ER4

These strike me as highly seasonal and low-yielding, with competition from LCCs on LYS-BCN. BOD-BCN is an old Regional Airlines route; demand would likely be insufficient in the off-season.


User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1841 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6732 times:

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 15):
Some AF / HOP routes are not bookable from september : LYS-BCN , BOD-BCN , SXB-VIE or SXB-VCE. Not official yet but if these cancellations are comfirmed that could be a result of the next cost-cutting plan.
Quoting goldorak (Reply 16):
BCN-LYS and BCN-BOD are indeed axed from sept 2. It was posted yesterday on AF travel agent portal. There was no mention of the 2 other routes you mentioned.

More news posted today on AF travel agent portal :
- SXB-VCE indeed axed from 26 August
- SXB-VIE Indeed axed from 3 sept
An additional axed route, not mentioned previously in this thread : LYS-BUD from 3 november


User currently offlinemozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2168 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6618 times:

Quoting AF185 (Reply 21):
I believe having a Premium long haul product allied with a low cost short/medium haul can be compatible and makes sense considering the competition

But this is *NOT* what the competition is doing. British Airways has a full service shorthaul product, and so does Lufthansa, and so does Swiss, and so does Austrian. There is some degree of consistency between longhaul and shorthaul.

Unless you consider "the competition" being LCC, but if LCCs are the competition then what is the point of upgrading the product?


25 Post contains links Alsatian : Contrary to expectations, the MRS TLS and NCE bases will not be closed according to the CEO : In french : Air France devrait supprimer 2500 postes d i
26 Aesma : Well I'm not high yield for sure (unemployed) but I fly AF, one of the main reasons being that it is not an LCC. Sure I look for good deals (in fact
27 RGFC : Actually LH has switched most of its short-haul flights to Germanwings
28 mozart : You did not read or chose only to quote part of my sentence out of context. The statement was about coherence between long haul and short haul offerin
29 mozart : @Aesma: You prove my point. I am of course individually happy for you You fly Air France and enjoy it. However, what is your happiness is actually a p
30 factsonly : July 31, 2013 Press Release AF/KLM: Transform 2015 plan: progress report at Air France Within the framework of the scheduled progress report on Transf
31 AF185 : When I said competition, I was referring to the LCC's operating in France in general, and putting more pressure on AF's fares and profitability. AF i
32 mozart : Two things then: First, this is not what Lufthansa has done. It has basically transferred all its shorthaul flying to Germanwings, except for hub rou
33 TYCOON : A couple of points: -AF is not planning to stop flying on key short-haul market segments within Europe and transfer them all to HOP! and/or Transavia.
34 mozart : Sure. Proportion of Premium revenues of total revenues (I picked this up in another forum, someone there looks at annual reports and industry studies
35 TYCOON : Mozart, thanks for the figures, but only hearsay... You haven't proven anything other than you haven't studied them yourself - so no authority to opin
36 mozart : Excuse me? Numbers from companies' annual reports are only "hearsay"??? What would you like me to do, hack into their accounting systems? Do you have
37 TYCOON : Mozart, if you quote somebody else on another forum who "gets his/her numbers from ..." that is the definition of hearsay.
38 mozart : So here we go, some hard facts. 1) Costs are not that different, AF very similar to LH, LX and OS; BA better by about 11%: All numbers for December 20
39 TYCOON : Thanks Mozart... your argument is now clearer... I will look into it on my side as well... I, like you, find the whole issue fascinating....
40 mozart : One more footnote regarding above numbers: the CASK number is for British Airways, not all of IAG including Iberia. Once you include Iberia the cost n
41 Post contains links Azure : Mozart, can you please state your sources precisely ? I've just had a look at CAPA and the figures I have found differ from yours, RASK-wise : LH gro
42 usdcaguy : If these types of markets are driving down profitability, why does AF serve them? The problem is that few legacy carriers fly to long-haul tourist ma
43 Alsatian : This is France. You cannot imagine the mess in the political / medias sphere is AF would just consider to drop these markets. French government still
44 usdcaguy : [quote=Alsatian,reply=43] This is France. You cannot imagine the mess in the political / medias sphere is AF would just consider to drop these markets
45 Alsatian : I totally agree with you. I am really less conviced with this statement...
46 Azure : With all my due respect, I believe you too are drawing conclusions too fast. It has not been said these leisure markets were driving down AF's profit
47 Post contains links Alsatian : Hello Azure. Don't you remember for example when AF decided to order B787s ? You are giving here the best argument as these routes have been re-opene
48 Azure : Bonjour l'Alsace ! I do remember the AF 787s example and this has been discussed at length in other threads, notwithstanding it is slightly off-topic
49 Alsatian : That is another way to analyse this situation but it is clear that these routes were from the start an economical non-sense for the AF management. If
50 Azure : Because said partners were not able to fill the planes I suppose ! Actually I fail to see any significant decisions made by AF in the recent years th
51 mozart : I'll get back to that when I am at my PC, on my mobile right now and for the next 2-3 days probably I would be surprised if I had worded it as "diffi
52 Post contains links mozart : Azure Here is the analysis from which I worked: http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...est-13-down-72-for-the-year-102456 In any case, we can spin thi
53 Azure : Thanks for the link, Mozart, although I have not been able to find AFKL /LH /IAG RASKs but year-to-year change. We do agree on the facts that 1/ AFKL
54 RDH3E : One thing to ponder, if AFKL went to the less dense, higher premium seat configuration to chase that revenue, their CASK will also increase, and woul
55 Azure : Agreed. However KL new C class to be introduced seems less dense than the current one, which could mean they are confident in their ability to achiev
56 mozart : Huh?? You are saying that their network includes more cheap holiday destinations, we have seen that the percentage of revenues from non-premium custo
57 Post contains images SCQ83 : Mozart, thanks for your analysis... I find it very interesting. Above all, I think the issue with AF is French business and service mentality (no offe
58 Azure : Mozart, I'll start with your conclusion : do not include me in your group of people that you describe as "react(ing) completely defensive when they a
59 mozart : If you are talking hard product on long haul Alitalia has already moved past Air France. Purely factual: where AF has its slippery slope, small pillo
60 mozart : Apologies if my statement came across as a criticism of your attitude. Not at all. There is no anger in any of your posts. It is just the way that I
61 TYCOON : Mozart, given the choice between LX, LH, OS, BA, or AF long-haul or European business class, I'll choose AF any day any week... I've flown all of thes
62 mozart : ... which is why I have refrained from a discussion of which airline is "better". It is you who chose to debate which airline you prefer and how othe
63 TYCOON : Just re-read your previous posts Mozart, it is full of "alot of people would agree...", "I saw it on another forum", bla bla bla... so it is hearsay.
64 Post contains links mozart : I have researched and quoted company financial information, industry reports, done timetable and capacity analyses. You have come up with no substanc
65 Post contains images Gonzalo : Unless someone here is a top manager of one of the airlines under scrutiny, or a very well informed aviation authority, all of us usually support our
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AZ Gets New CEO; Radical Cost Cutting, Sale To AF posted Thu Apr 18 2013 08:36:17 by LAXintl
SAS Looks At More Route Closures And Cost Cutting posted Tue Nov 2 2004 15:48:47 by BestWestern
Concerns In CDG/AMS Over Possible Break-up AF/KL posted Fri Jun 28 2013 22:10:32 by factsonly
Crew Related Cost Cutting - Worldwide? posted Tue Jun 11 2013 10:51:52 by SIA747Megatop
When Will AF/KL Announce Their Engines For 787 posted Wed May 15 2013 10:57:38 by SASMD82
AF/KL Delaying A380 Deliveries To Save Money posted Fri Apr 12 2013 03:47:32 by Gonzalo
SRB : VS Tie-Up With AF/KL "Makes Sense" posted Thu Apr 11 2013 04:02:58 by Gonzalo
VS In Talks With AF-KL-AZ For A New Joint Venture posted Tue Apr 2 2013 14:28:17 by 777
AF/KL Changes In Capacity / Market Focus posted Mon Mar 11 2013 07:01:20 by Gonzalo
Good 3rd Quarter For AF/KL And LH posted Wed Oct 31 2012 06:31:22 by UALWN