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BA At LCY - Aircraft Utilisation  
User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3744 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6658 times:

Excluding the A318s are there too many BA E170s and E190s operating in and out of LCY, there seem to be a good number of leisure routes operated including IBZ and PMI in winter, not sure if these have good club class loads.

Would they be better concentrating on the traditional business routes with a smaller fleet with leisure routes just filling the middle of the day off peak business gaps?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3093 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6502 times:

They tend to operate outwith peak times to leisure or Friday mornings. There are not that many more business destinations that would work from LCY. I have no doubt there will follow a list of "Why not ABC that would work!" ignoring the fact most have been tried before. Core CFE business routes are ZRH/FRA/AMS/EDI/GLA/ABZ/MAD as all are multiple dailies. The once daily leisure route seem to do well utilising aircraft that would otherwise be parked. The summer routes to the likes of Quimper and Angers operate when business travel is at a cyclical low ebb.

As to whether the company ever makes any money? Well I don't know....


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11574 posts, RR: 61
Reply 2, posted (9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6431 times:

Quoting richardw (Thread starter):
Would they be better concentrating on the traditional business routes with a smaller fleet with leisure routes just filling the middle of the day off peak business gaps?

How is this different to what they do? Off peak at LCY is a sizable part of the day, during which landing fees are £0 which has encouraged new leisure routes.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6382 times:

The weekday services to AGP and GRX are long sectors that aren't filling the middle of the day off peak business gaps. So IMHO if the club class loads on these services aren't good then the fleet is too big.

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7260 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6352 times:

Annual aircraft utilisation of the E-Jets has been relatively low, particularly for BA's 170s.

In 2011 the six E170s clocked up an average of only 1,807 hours with a low of 1,751 hours (G-LCYD) and a high of 1,900 hours (G-LCYF).

The five E190s that were is service at the start of 2011 clocked up an average of 2,256 hours during 2011. The low was 2,152 hours (G-LCYM), the high 2,316 hours (G-LCYK).

I think that the increasing number of leisure destination flights may be an effort to improve utilisation in the business flight non-peak periods.

As a base-line comparison, the 32 BA 319s for which I have year end data for both 2010 and 2011 flew an average of 2,357 hours in 2011.

Interestingly the four most heavily utilised BA aircraft in 2011 were the four 772s configured for leisure flights to the Caribbean and Florida that are based at LGW. They clocked up 5,873 hours (G-VIIO), 5,764 hours (G-VIIR), 5,498 hours (G-VIIT) and 5,370 hours (G-VIIP). This might indicate the willingness of leisure passengers to accept the flight times offered and of business travellers to require specific travel times.

[The above data have been calculated from the end-year cumulative hours flown for each aircraft as published on the CAA GINFO web site At this time a significant portion of end-2012 data have not yet been posted by the CAA. This is why 2011 data have been used..]


User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6336 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
Off peak at LCY is a sizable part of the day

Is that 9.00 to 16.00 or similar?


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3093 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6303 times:

Quoting richardw (Reply 3):
The weekday services to AGP and GRX are long sectors that aren't filling the middle of the day off peak business gaps. So IMHO if the club class loads on these services aren't good then the fleet is too big.

You should write to them and let them know  
There seems to be a good niche market for leisure from LCY with upper middle class types who don't do easyJet. It does seem to work for them, unlike business destinations like Copenhagen or Dublin which were dropped.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11574 posts, RR: 61
Reply 7, posted (9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6303 times:

Quoting richardw (Reply 3):
The weekday services to AGP and GRX are long sectors that aren't filling the middle of the day off peak business gaps. So IMHO if the club class loads on these services aren't good then the fleet is too big.

There are also other early morning sectors during the high summer, timed for aircraft performance reasons, but I would still say the overall focus is on the leisure routes filling the downtime.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11574 posts, RR: 61
Reply 8, posted (9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6252 times:

Quoting richardw (Reply 5):
Is that 9.00 to 16.00 or similar?

Off peak is split into two sections:

Shoulder: 10:00-12:00, 15:00-16:59 and 20:00-20:30, with the landing fee being half of peak charges.
Off-Peak: 12:01-14:59 with the landing fee being nil.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6213 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 6):
You should write to them and let them know

They could write back and say "you're right the club class loads are Ok so the services will continue."


User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6156 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 4):
The five E190s that were is service at the start of 2011 clocked up an average of 2,256 hours during 2011. The low was 2,152 hours (G-LCYM), the high 2,316 hours (G-LCYK).

Does that include the weekend summer charters at other airports?


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7260 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (9 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5870 times:

Quoting richardw (Reply 10):
Does that include the weekend summer charters at other airports?

Yes. The CAA requires all owners of ALL aircraft on the UK register to report the airframe hours as at 31 December each year. In theory the submitted figure is then published on their GINFO web site. However when they receive, as an example, the figure for 31 December 2012 and they enter it on their web site they overwrite the previous figure (to 31 December 2011).

They only enter the data in small batches and over a 12 month period. So at any one time there is a mix of data to the previous 31 December and to the 31 December prior to that. So last time I checked the data for BA's A 319s G-EUPA to 'PD, 'PP to 'PU and for 'PX were to 31 December 2011 while all the other entries for all the BA 310s in the G-EUPA to 'PZ range were to 31 December 2012. So just over half way through the year in this case 10 out of 24 aircraft (42 per cent) are still showing total airframe hours to 31 December 2011.

I said "in theory" because it appears that if we reach late December and an aircraft's data have not been updated they may go straight from, for example, that for 31 December 2010 to that for 31 December 2012.


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (9 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 4):
As a base-line comparison, the 32 BA 319s for which I have year end data for both 2010 and 2011 flew an average of 2,357 hours in 2011.

Would be interesting to know how that compares with EasyJet A319 utililization.


User currently offlinesandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1043 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5374 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):

Would be interesting to know how that compares with EasyJet A319 utililization.


Does the G-INFO website quote cumulative hours?

For example G-EZIV clocked up 19524 hours at 31/12/11 would seem to be total since manufacture?

Sandyb123



DC3, 727, 737, 744, 753, 777, A32X, A345, A388, ERJ145, E190, BaE146, D328, ATR72, Q400
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7260 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (9 months 13 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 13):
Does the G-INFO website quote cumulative hours?

Sorry. Yes. When I said

Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):
The CAA requires all owners of ALL aircraft on the UK register to report the airframe hours as at 31 December each year

it would have been clearer if I had said "total airframe hours as at 31 December"

As an example the entry for E190 G-LCYJ currently reads "Total Hours: 6045 at 31/12/2012" while that for 'YN still reads "Total Hours: 2448 at 31/12/2011" and will likely be updated over the coming months.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3475 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 months 8 hours ago) and read 1963 times:

To me the utilisation seems to be quite high when you compare it to the A319's that BA operates from LHR. To get the E190's to within 100 hours per year is good going bearing in mind the short routes plus the restricted operating hours from LCY.

User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3054 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 months 7 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 4):
Interestingly the four most heavily utilised BA aircraft in 2011 were the four 772s configured for leisure flights to the Caribbean and Florida that are based at LGW.
Quoting VV701 (Reply 4):
and 5,370 hours (G-VIIP)

Would explain dirty aircraft in my recent trip report.  



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3054 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 months 7 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
Off peak at LCY is a sizable part of the day, during which landing fees are £0 which has encouraged new leisure routes

Interesting, does any other UK airport offer such an insentive?



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11574 posts, RR: 61
Reply 18, posted (8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1393 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 17):
Interesting, does any other UK airport offer such an insentive?

Short term yes it is very widespread these days at many airports, to attract particular desired new routes.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
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