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DL To Resume ATL & MSP-ASE (Aspen) Service  
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7498 posts, RR: 28
Posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4291 times:

In this weeks update to the electronic timetable, it is showing Sat-only MSP-ASE service, operated by Skywest CR7 service. The route will start on 12/21 and operate on Saturdays through March.

This would be a resumption of a route that NW operated for about 8 years, when Mesaba had the ARJs.
NW operated MSP & MEM - ASE service back whe then 146 & ARJs were the only jet aircraft capable of operating out of ASE. NW discontinued the route when they removed the ARJs from Mesaba's fleet in about 2006.

DL has operated ATL-ASE CR7 service for the past few winters.

Also, DL will operate MSP-EGE 757 service 5x weekly during the Christmas/New Years holiday period in additional to Saturdays in mid-Feb through March.
Last year they only operated MSP-EGE on Saturdays in March.

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8366 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4162 times:

A very impressive demonstration for the CR7.

Don't they also do JAC and Steamboat Springs (HDN)?


User currently offlineKLASM83 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4136 times:

Good to see the DL/OO CR7 back in ASE. Almost makes one wonder if SLC would return, as that was a pretty popular route.


Don't you want to hang out and waste your life with us?
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7498 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Oh, I had forgotten that DL has pulled out of ASE completely. ATL-ASE is also a resumption for this winter and had not operated in a while.

Daily CR7 service scheduled for this winter.


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3752 times:

Does the atltiude, distance and amount of pax luggage (skis, etc.) weight restrict the performance of the CR7 on routes to places like ATL?

User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 4):

Does the atltiude, distance and amount of pax luggage (skis, etc.) weight restrict the performance of the CR7 on routes to places like ATL?

Severely.

I seem to remember average booking caps in the ballpark of 45 to 55 pax, out of a total capacity of 65.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 5):
I seem to remember average booking caps in the ballpark of 45 to 55 pax, out of a total capacity of 65.

Is it even profitable to run a CR7 then?!


User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2741 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3508 times:
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Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 6):
Is it even profitable to run a CR7 then?!

I'd be willing to bet fares are pretty high. I know there aren't exactly a whole lot of great places you can ski/snowboard in the MSP area. If you have some money you'll head over to Aspen for some fun. I can't imagine the situation is any better in warm Atlanta.
Pat



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineStapleton From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 279 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3488 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
Also, DL will operate MSP-EGE 757 service 5x weekly during the Christmas/New Years holiday period in additional to Saturdays in mid-Feb through March.
Last year they only operated MSP-EGE on Saturdays in March.

They will also be operating twice daily ATL - BZN with 738 over the Christmas/New Years holiday period.


User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8366 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3478 times:

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 6):
Is it even profitable to run a CR7 then?!

Your alternatives are

(1) Drive
(2) Don't go to Aspen

So, yes there is money to be made. The MSP flight is a good 400 mi shorter distance than Atlanta, so that may allow more passengers.


User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 7):

Very true. I am spoiled by the amount of resorts within 2-3 hours of me.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
So, yes there is money to be made. The MSP flight is a good 400 mi shorter distance than Atlanta, so that may allow more passengers.

MSP-ASE will work pretty well. ASE-MSP might be a little more restricted. 7800' elevation (runway only 200' more) does that.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
(2) Don't go to Aspen

Forgot about the wingspan and MLW limitations.

Quoting Stapleton (Reply 8):
They will also be operating twice daily ATL - BZN with 738 over the Christmas/New Years holiday period.

Good to see BZN getting the 737s!


User currently offlineTHEFLLFLYER From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3278 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
Your alternatives are

(1) Drive
(2) Don't go to Aspen

So, yes there is money to be made. The MSP flight is a good 400 mi shorter distance than Atlanta, so that may allow more passengers.

DEN (a cheaper option) is a 3.5-4 hour drive from ASE. Winter conditions could make this drive miserable. There will definitely be pax who will pay for the convenience.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7498 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3058 times:

NW operated MSP/MEM-ASE when they operated the ARJs from about 1998 - 2006.

DL operated ATL-ASE with OO CR7s from about 2007-2010.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 10):
MSP-ASE will work pretty well. ASE-MSP might be a little more restricted. 7800' elevation (runway only 200' more) does that.

ATL-ASE was previously flown by CR7. Under the AA brand, DFW-ASE is flown. They will weight restrict, but its a premium market where they can price accordingly for the convenience.

Quoting THEFLLFLYER (Reply 11):
DEN (a cheaper option) is a 3.5-4 hour drive from ASE. Winter conditions could make this drive miserable. There will definitely be pax who will pay for the convenience.

DEN - Aspen is a 4 hour drive in good conditions. With weather, or weekend Front Range ski traffic it can be much longer. This includes crossing the Continental Divide, Vail Pass, and Glenwood Canyon which are all prone to slow-downs and delays in snow.

ASE commands a premium since its a limited market, and attracts an affluent crowd that is willing to pay for the convenience of flying right into the resort town. By flying into ASE, on can potentially avoid costly ground transportation and a rental car. Plus, its the whole value of one's time. Driving to/from DEN can easily eat a day on each end of the trip.

With F9 pulling out of ASE, this helped make the case for a 3rd airline with UA & AA remanining the market.


User currently offlinequickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2489 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3002 times:

Why not a Salt Lake DL connection?

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

Quoting KLASM83 (Reply 2):
Almost makes one wonder if SLC would return, as that was a pretty popular route.

I have no idea why DL wouldn't have a SLC connection even during the summer. I find it very improbable that there isn't a significant number of significant DL flyers in Aspen who would appreciate the service, and would even be willing to backtrack a bit if going east.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7498 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

Press Release:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-adds-aspen-170000070.html


User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 10):
MSP-ASE will work pretty well. ASE-MSP might be a little more restricted. 7800' elevation (runway only 200' more) does that.

Major weight restrictions will only happen if there are tailwinds in ASE or alternates requiring a bunch of extra gas. I don't expect weight restrictions often.



Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2311 times:

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 16):
Major weight restrictions will only happen if there are tailwinds in ASE or alternates requiring a bunch of extra gas. I don't expect weight restrictions often.

No i think it will have weight restricitons. ASE is a very tricky airport in a location with no room for error and i bet Delta/skywest wont set up the ability to sell all the seats on bookings. ASE-SLC i think was even set up to not sell all the tickets with the CR7 on the one direction taking off out of ASE, they will land totally full even out of ATL. The ski equipment these planes will be filled with is very heavy and unlike most flights 95+% of people will have checked bags. The ski airports see so much luggage per person and its heavy.


User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
No i think it will have weight restricitons. ASE is a very tricky airport in a location with no room for error and i bet Delta/skywest wont set up the ability to sell all the seats on bookings. ASE-SLC i think was even set up to not sell all the tickets with the CR7 on the one direction taking off out of ASE, they will land totally full even out of ATL. The ski equipment these planes will be filled with is very heavy and unlike most flights 95+% of people will have checked bags. The ski airports see so much luggage per person and its heavy.

I am an ASE qualified pilot for Skywest. I have flown to ASE almost every day I've worked for years. There are very little operational weight restrictions except for the reasons I previously mentioned to ORD. I don't expect MSP to be any different.

[Edited 2013-07-31 15:41:46]


Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2280 times:

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 18):
am an ASE qualified pilot for Skywest. I have flown to ASE almost every day I've worked for years. There are very little operational weight restrictions except for the reasons I previously mentioned to ORD. I don't expect MSP to be any different.

Point taken but im pretty sure the ASE-SLC and ASE-ATL flghts both were set up to not sell all the seats when they had service years ago. Im talking about looking at the seat map or something like that either LOL


User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2257 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 19):
Point taken but im pretty sure the ASE-SLC and ASE-ATL flghts both were set up to not sell all the seats when they had service years ago. Im talking about looking at the seat map or something like that either LOL

Keep in mind that the takeoff distance on runway 33 has been increased by 1000 ft since the last time OO flew DL ops into ASE. While I agree that in the past weight restrictions were a bit more common, the extra runway length has done a very good job to alleviate most of the issues.



Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently offlineSurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2831 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1932 times:

Great news for ASE. Nice to see DL, and a surprising assortment of other airlines (AC, AS, G4, etc.), taking interest in the ski markets.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
Sat-only MSP-ASE service, operated by Skywest CR7 service. The route will start on 12/21 and operate on Saturdays through March.

This would be a resumption of a route that NW operated for about 8 years, when Mesaba had the ARJs.
NW operated MSP & MEM - ASE service back whe then 146 & ARJs were the only jet aircraft capable of operating out of ASE. NW discontinued the route when they removed the ARJs from Mesaba's fleet in about 2006.

Nice to see MSP-ASE back after all these years, although a 1x weekly CR7 flight pales in comparison to the days of 2x daily Avro RJ85 flights (with a 3rd Saturday/Sunday frequency) on the route. The Avro had 69 seats (16F/53Y), while the CR7 has 65 seats (9F/8Y+/48Y).

Hopefully, like the recently restored MSP-EGE service, this is just the beginning - whereby DL will build it back up over time. Even MEM-ASE was being flown daily, plus a 2nd Saturday frequency, about 10 years ago.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
DL has operated ATL-ASE CR7 service for the past few winters.

DL has been gone from ASE for the past few ski seasons. During that time, they probably tried to get Aspen-bound skiers on EGE flights, which AA used to do before serving ASE (their inflight magazine route map would show "Vail/Beaver Creek/Aspen"). Now that the ASE runway has been extended, the penalties on this route will be much less of an issue than before.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
Also, DL will operate MSP-EGE 757 service 5x weekly during the Christmas/New Years holiday period in additional to Saturdays in mid-Feb through March.
Last year they only operated MSP-EGE on Saturdays in March.

I was absolutely shocked when DL completely dropped MSP-EGE, a route NW had been flying daily throughout the winter season for years, leaving just ATL-EGE service. Folks in places like BUF, GRR, MKE, etc. probably don't want to connect way out of their way in ATL, and now MSP is an option again. It seems like DL finally realized they cut the ski market service too far, and is slowly but steadily restoring it accordingly.

Quoting quickmover (Reply 13):
Why not a Salt Lake DL connection?

1) Virtually no O&D. Even DEN-ASE probably has superior O&D, since Denverites don't have world class skiing at their doorstep like Salt Lakers do. Those Utahns insistent on skiing in Aspen (I imagine there are few, since most consider Utah's ski conditions to be better than Colorado's) would probably just drive rather than fly. On top of all that, SLC is a fairly small market to begin with, certainly much smaller than MSP or ATL.

2) Very low-yielding connecting traffic. SLC is primarily a domestic regional hub, and in my experience it - along with US at PHX - typically has the lowest fares in the Western U.S./Canada. I remember talking to a guy who had flown HNL-SLC-LAX because it was so much cheaper than any of the Hawaii-California flights, and my friend who took an Aspen ski trip with her family actually flew DL ORD-SLC-ASE because it was the cheapest option. Their SLC-ASE flight was canceled due to bad weather, so they were bussed in to Aspen from SLC. The higher yielding traffic in Greater Los Angeles and the Bay Area (by far the largest Western markets) will opt for AA/UA nonstop services, while the higher yielding traffic on the East Coast (BOS, NYC, D.C., etc.) won't want to connect out of the way at SLC unless the price is right (lower than on an the way connection like ORD or DEN).

I for one am not at all surprised SLC-ASE isn't returning.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3363 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1618 times:

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 6):
Is it even profitable to run a CR7 then?!

It will be now as the Aspen Times reports the City and County of Pitkin will be giving DL some cash incentives.

Sorry no link



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineSYfan100 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1574 times:

Recall back the last time I was out in Colorado right after winter that a bartender said that Vail was more popular for people to fly into because of, the larger aircraft apparently. Although around the sametime Aspen Airport was doing some various construction work.

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1574 times:

Quoting SYfan100 (Reply 23):
Recall back the last time I was out in Colorado right after winter that a bartender said that Vail was more popular for people to fly into because of, the larger aircraft apparently. Although around the sametime Aspen Airport was doing some various construction work.

EGE will still probably remain more popular among the budget conscious and seasonal employees. Both are very expensive markets but ASE is usually even more and has less fare sales, it caters more towards the people who want less commute time and are willing to pay a real premium.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7498 posts, RR: 28
Reply 25, posted (11 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1574 times:

Quoting SYfan100 (Reply 23):
Recall back the last time I was out in Colorado right after winter that a bartender said that Vail was more popular for people to fly into because of, the larger aircraft apparently. Although around the sametime Aspen Airport was doing some various construction work.

EGE is at a lower elevation, less weather issues, less terrain issues, longer runway and has more infrastructure. Its less operationally challenging than ASE.

Until a few years ago, the BAE-146 / Avro-RJ were the only commerical jet aircraft that could operate into ASE.

EGE is more popular because they can fly larger aircraft and accomodate more passenger. Plus, Vail / Beaver Creek is much larger and attracts more people than the Aspen area resorts.

EGE is more centrally located and is a viable option for Vail/Beaver Creek, the Aspen area resorts, and even Summit County resorts. ASE really only makes sense to go to the Roaring Fork Valley. I doubt anyone flies to ASE to go to Vail. Many people use EGE headed to ASE.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 24):
EGE will still probably remain more popular among the budget conscious and seasonal employees. Both are very expensive markets but ASE is usually even more and has less fare sales, it caters more towards the people who want less commute time and are willing to pay a real premium.

ASE is a much more restricted airport, EGE simply has more flights and capacity. Off-peak some deals can be found for EGE - at least when factoring in the costs and time associated with flying from DEN vs. EGE.


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