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Smoke In QR 787, Grounded For Days  
User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2084 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 36265 times:

And the saga goes on. "Smoke had been reported near an electrical compartment."

http://www.euronews.com/business-new...as-glitches-pile-up-on-boeing-jet/

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-eco/201...vel-incident-sur-un-boeing-787.php

This incident already hapened on 21. July. Are there any further informations about this?

[Edited 2013-07-26 09:12:20]


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
156 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSpeedbored From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2013, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 36040 times:

This has already been commented on in the ET 787 thread.

Another article in the chicago tribune:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...ner-qatar-20130726,0,4293316.story

QR is quoted as saying:
"This is a minor issue for us, and not an incident, so we are not commenting,"
and Boeing is quoted as saying:
"We request that you channel all your enquiries to Qatar Airways."
So I doubt very much whether we're going to get any more information than "Smoke was seen somewhere near an electronics bay".

It is most likely, as QR says, something trivial. The fact that the aircraft has been grounded for 5 days now does not have to mean that it's something more serious - it could just be a lack of spare parts. But I can't help thinking that the fact that QR and Boeing are not saying what the "minor technical issue" was, is going to fuel a lot of speculation, both here and in the press.

Might be better for Boeing if they release some details.


User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2084 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 35951 times:

Quoting Speedbored (Reply 1):
Might be better for Boeing if they release some details.

Yes, because it seems that, just in the last 3-4 hours, this "news" is spreading in the media, worldwide.



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 35904 times:

Not much information out there, but I found this interesting since there are claims that that aircraft was surrounded by fire trucks:

A fire-brigade supervisor in Doha said it did not have any record of an incident with an airport-related call last week.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...mliner-qatar-idUSL6N0FW2F120130726

Once again only time will tell, but I already fear the speculation in the meantime...


User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 35834 times:

Slightly off topic, but Qatar might be having a hard time with 787s this week:

From a tweet by Matt Cawby:

"A7-BCE delivery delayed, got hung up on the air bridge while being pushed back unknown if damage occurred"


User currently offlineSpeedbored From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2013, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 35817 times:

Quoting KC135R (Reply 3):
A fire-brigade supervisor in Doha said it did not have any record of an incident with an airport-related call last week.

As I said in the ET 787 thread, that statement does not necessarily mean that the incident didn't occur. It could just be cleverly worded. The reported incident happened on Sunday, which is actually this week not last.


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 35489 times:

Quoting KC135R (Reply 4):
A7-BCE delivery delayed, got hung up on the air bridge while being pushed back unknown if damage occurred

A7-BCE is now in the air, so it seems nothing serious happened.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 35328 times:

Quoting Speedbored (Reply 5):
As I said in the ET 787 thread, that statement does not necessarily mean that the incident didn't occur. It could just be cleverly worded.

So for clarification purposes, you put forth this cleverly worded theory to imply what exactly?

Are you claiming that the Doha fire department is involved in some sort of cover up?


User currently offlineSpeedbored From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2013, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 35139 times:

Quoting KC135R (Reply 12):
So for clarification purposes, you put forth this cleverly worded theory to imply what exactly?

Are you claiming that the Doha fire department is involved in some sort of cover up?

I'm not claiming or implying anything but, as I said in the other thread, the fire department may just be deliberately avoiding confirming or denying anything.

I agree that, as you suggest, this statement was most likely made as a result of a specific question from Reuters regarding a reported issue with a Qatar 787 on Sunday. That is why I find it interesting that the fire department should choose to add the 'this week' qualifier to their statement, when it is clearly not required.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5501 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 34811 times:

If Boeing is referring queries to QR, and QR isn't talking, and the fire brigade has no info, it would seem to me to be an internal QR thing. Is QR suddenly changing its approach to 787 issues and keeping quiet? That would seem hard to believe, but apparently it's easier to believe there's more to it.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1573 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 34532 times:

NBCNews.com is reporting "More Dreamliner Ills," including the AI overheating oven, the QR event, and discovery of two more beacons having damaged wires (the wires did not cause fires). Only the discovery of the damaged wires appears to be somewhat newsworthy in light of the ET fire - and the discovery of the damaged wires shows that inspections and directives do what they are supposed to do - find and correct problems. It must be a slow news day

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5501 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 34415 times:

It's not a slow news day, it's a stupid news day.

Yesterday, in both interviews of the WN and AS CEO's about their financial results, they were asked if, in light of all the recent problems at Boeing, they stood by their all Boeing fleet decision (or some such). Really?

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 34350 times:

Quoting Speedbored (Reply 13):
That is why I find it interesting that the fire department should choose to add the 'this week' qualifier to their statement, when it is clearly not required.

We don't really know if the fire department added the qualifier as it wasn't a direct quote from Reuters. That said, it doesn't seem emergency services were involved.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 14):
Is QR suddenly changing its approach to 787 issues and keeping quiet? That would seem hard to believe

Well, yes and no. If memory serves, Al Baker was critical of the decision to ground the aircraft and I don't see him going off on a rant involving a possible smoking electric panel - only to draw more unwanted attention and thereby potentially jeopardizing his own operations. His rants were primarily aimed at Boeing during the delays. Now that he operates the aircraft, why fling mud at his own product?

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 15):
Only the discovery of the damaged wires appears to be somewhat newsworthy in light of the ET fire

Details are scarce, but I certainly find the QR 'incident' newsworthy... unlike UA's diversions due engine problems, etc.


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 31336 times:

Quoting Speedbored (Reply 1):
This has already been commented on in the ET 787 thread.

It's a different incident, so it deserves its own thread. (The problem is there's not much info about it right now.) Unless you're suggesting we retitle the other thread "All 787 Smoke and Fire Incidents"... which I don't think would go over too well with some people.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 10):
NBCNews.com is reporting "More Dreamliner Ills," including the AI overheating oven, the QR event, and discovery of two more beacons having damaged wires (the wires did not cause fires). Only the discovery of the damaged wires appears to be somewhat newsworthy in light of the ET fire

The overheating oven seems like an odd inclusion, but I would say this QR incident is potentially very newsworthy, and it is very odd that nobody wants to comment on it. If the media wants to do their job, they'll be digging up everything they can get at on this right now. Hopefully it turns out to be a red herring. But we don't know that yet; the rumors from "industry sources" warrant some further information. It would be in everyone's best interests to clarify if those rumors are true or not.

What "minor issues" with a brand new airplane could ground it for a week? Is Boeing really short of spare parts for a plane that's in active production?



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offline7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 30783 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 13):
What "minor issues" with a brand new airplane could ground it for a week? Is Boeing really short of spare parts for a plane that's in active production?



JAL who is very forthcoming with information was stuck in BOS for almost a week with a fuel pump change which seems like a minor issue to me. Are we to think they are not telling the truth because that's something that shouldn't take that long?


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9001 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 30475 times:

Quoting KC135R (Reply 7):

Are you claiming that the Doha fire department is involved in some sort of cover up?

That is not being suggested, it could be factual, they may not have the report as it may have been sent on. It does not indicate something did or did not happen.

Given the lack of info, it might be a self induced problem. It could be a simple human mistake during routine maintenance like dropping a tool or liquid in the wrong location.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 27495 times:

Silly as it may seam...do 787's have ashtrays at all galley locations?

User currently offlinecjg225 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 807 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 27018 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 11):
Yesterday, in both interviews of the WN and AS CEO's about their financial results, they were asked if, in light of all the recent problems at Boeing, they stood by their all Boeing fleet decision (or some such). Really?

I love the media.

Do you have a link to this by any chance?



Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4268 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 26782 times:

Interesting article online, also mentioning about ANA that found several wiring problems on the 787 last week:

Quote:
In the last month not a day appears to pass without some news about a glitch, malfunction, or full-blown fire, affecting the ironically named Boeing Dreamliner (resulting in the stock soaring to daily all time highs). Today promises to be no different, with not one, not two, but three separate incidents impacting the airplane.

Reuters reports that Qatar Airways has taken one of its 787 Dreamliners out of service following what it described as a "minor" technical issue. "Minor" as in a burnt-out indicator light, or "Minor" as in the plane nearly fell out of the sky burnt to a crisp? The distinction can be important.

"The airline and Boeing the airplane's manufacturer, declined to give further details but industry sources said they were treating seriously reports that the aircraft had been grounded for days after a problem with an electrical panel. According to web tracking service Flightaware, the aircraft, registered as A7-BCB, has not flown since Sunday, an unsually long downtime for a long-haul jet designed to save fuel bills." Well, it's usually something.

From Reuters:

"This is a minor issue for us, and not an incident, so we are not commenting," a spokeswoman said.

A spokeswoman for Boeing said, "We request that you channel all your enquiries to Qatar Airways."

Two industry sources said smoke had been reported near an electrical compartment while the jet was on the ground in Doha. It was not clear whether passengers were on board at the time, but the aircraft's next flight was carried out by another model.

Two people familar with the matter, asking not to be identified, said smoke had been reported near an electrical compartment while the jet was on the ground in Doha. A failure in a similar bay caused an fire during a test flight in 2010.

A fire-brigade supervisor in Doha said it did not have any record of an incident with an airport-related call last week.
But wait, there's more!

India's aviation regulator said earlier it had started an investigation after an oven in a 787 operated by Air India overheated during a domestic flight, causing smoke. There was no interruption to services.

Japan's ANA, which operates the world's biggest fleet of Dreamliners, also said on Friday it had found damage to the battery wiring on two 787 locator beacons.

Tests have been ordered on the beacons after a parked Ethiopian Airlines-owned 787 Dreamliner caught fire at London's Heathrow this month, causing extensive damage to the plane.

Why are so many "glitches" affecting the Dreamliner? Simple. As the following schematic so aptly demonstrates, the airplane is nothing but a flying representation of the European Union - every component is from a different country, held together by the "monetary cohesion" superglue equivalent of a Boeing assembly, and lots of political shareholder capital.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...all-report-minor-issues-boeing-787



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 26337 times:

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 18):
Interesting article online

Interesting, no...hyperbole, yes...

This illustrates it well:

"Minor" as in a burnt-out indicator light, or "Minor" as in the plane nearly fell out of the sky burnt to a crisp? The distinction can be important.

By definition the latter would not be a minor incident and it is clear media sensationalism - there is absolutely no reason to assume the plane nearly fell out of the sky burnt to a crisp, how utterly stupid to say it.

The fact is, we know very little about A7-BCB, certainly not enough to draw any firm conclusions as yet. What we do know is that the airline says it is a minor incident and the fire department at the airport did not confirm they responded to the described situation.

The crimped wires in the ANA (and now United) ELTs would only seem to back up the theory that the ELT is responsible for the fire at LHR, actually good news for the 787.

The "fire" in the oven of the AI plane wasn't even a fire at all and seems to be related to the oven, not the airplane.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/0...ner-airindia-idINDEE96P07O20130726

The overheating of the oven during a July 24 flight from New Delhi to Kolkata did not cause a fire, an Air India spokesman said

I know in all of these incidents there are still questions; but based on what we know at this point I just don't see how the sky is falling. But I suppose the author of that article is noble in the sense that he did not let the truth get in the way of a good story.  Yeah sure

[Edited 2013-07-26 20:53:30]

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5501 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 26339 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 15):
Given the lack of info, it might be a self induced problem. It could be a simple human mistake during routine maintenance like dropping a tool or liquid in the wrong location.

To me, this type of scenario would fit the description of the responses much better than a smoking gun, but we've seen the way things go for the 787.

Would Boeing normally refer questions to an airline when it's a OEM or safety concern?

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 17):
Do you have a link to this by any chance

I just looked at the pages that I had visited but can't find the links. They were both from CNBC I believe.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 26181 times:

The wording of the fire brigade statement is suspiciously fiddly and qualified, the other place reports that 4 fire tenders attended the incident at stand A14 and were witnessed by multiple people. They also say that smoke was coming from panel in the cockpit which would make this a new type of fault if true.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 14):
JAL who is very forthcoming with information was stuck in BOS for almost a week with a fuel pump change which seems like a minor issue to me.

You wouldn't think that a simple fuel pump change would take 5 days.



BV
User currently offlinehawaiian763 From Canada, joined May 2009, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 26154 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 11):

The media just keeps on rolling downhill and over killing stories. If this had happened on say a 737 or 330, the media would have no interest. But of course because it's the 787 and It had a little smoke, the media has to make a big stink about it. Getting a little tired of these overblown stories about the 787


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5501 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 25913 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 21):
The wording of the fire brigade statement is suspiciously fiddly and qualified

Sigh.

Quoting hawaiian763 (Reply 22):
The media just keeps on rolling downhill and over killing stories. If this had happened on say a 737 or 330, the media would have no interest. But of course because it's the 787 and It had a little smoke, the media has to make a big stink about it. Getting a little tired of these overblown stories about the 787

To a degree, they HAVE TO report on these stories. If something were to happen - such as a tragic crash - it would seem odd to have not mentioned these things in a newscast based on recent events. But it's one thing to mention it and another to link it to unrelated things, play it up, fan the flames, etc.

Asking WN's CEO if they stood by Boeing (iirc) was simply unintelligent AFAIC. Ditto with Alaska. BUT - there'd be someone asking them "Why didn't you bring this up?" if they didn't say it, and if something were to happen later that would have made the question relevant, they'd not want to be the one who didn't ask.

I despise it - like some of the baiting comments on here - but Boeing put themselves in this position by how they handled the program, so we just need to suck it up and work through it the best we can.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3393 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 25659 times:

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 14):
JAL who is very forthcoming with information was stuck in BOS for almost a week with a fuel pump change which seems like a minor issue to me. Are we to think they are not telling the truth because that's something that shouldn't take that long?

The A380 had fuel pump troubles in its early days and they took week(s) to sort out.


25 BoeingVista : From memory that is not true. AF had problem with their fuel pumps but that was years after EIS.[Edited 2013-07-26 23:27:31]
26 fcogafa : I understand that two newly delivered British Airways Boeing 787s have not flown for weeks, sounds very suspicious to me.....
27 Post contains links XT6Wagon : Two seconds with google and BAM! http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/trave...ights/2008-03-26-a380-ground_N.htm
28 BruceSmith : Japan, like a lot of the Asian countries, start the week on Monday, not Sunday like the West does. So Sunday is last week to them. ISO has also defin
29 Speedbird128 : And in Doha, the work week is Sunday through Thursday, with weekend being Friday and Saturday... Which is possibly relevant to this statement.
30 BruceSmith : Interesting, my google-fu is bad today. I stand corrected. I wonder why that was done, maybe to synchronize to the America's late day.
31 thunderboltdrgn : Actually almost all western countries except USA and Canada starts the week with Monday.
32 borgcube : Correct
33 3rdGen : It is not in QRs interest to announce any problems with the 787. They are already running their operation to capacity. They cannot have any more scrut
34 Speedbird128 : Having lived there it was according to religion that their Friday is the equivalent of our Sunday. In the past their weekend was traditionally Thursd
35 Post contains images flyhigh@tom : KC135R...i stand by my statement in the ET thread. I talked to my colleague and he confirmed seeing fire trucks. you stand by the news report. i stan
36 BoeingVista : 5 months after EIS the A380 had a single fuel pump problem that took 2 days to resolve? I'm sure that you have a point but I fail to grasp it. If we
37 StuckInCA : That's an interesting choice of words. That seems more dramatic than the actual statement:
38 TheRedBaron : After all the media and news about 787 and the word "smoke" or "fire", I guess if something like that happens while on flight (God Forbid) panic will
39 B777LRF : There are several eyewitness who saw fire vehicles (plural) in attendance at the aircraft. The aircraft has been sitting in a hangar ever since, supp
40 BoeingVista : Now, were there not murmurings from Boeing and the FAA that the AAIB had no IACO rights to investigate the Ethiopian fire because the aircraft was no
41 zeke : Not exactly true, I had mentioned this earlier. The aircraft was not in the course of being operated, so if it is written off, it would not be consid
42 BoeingVista : Pretty sure that it was reported in the NYT that questions were raised, but yes the AAIB has the right under local law to carry out the investigation
43 osiris30 : How do you end up with that after Zeke *clearly* stated: Sounds like the issue here was QR maintenance staff screwed up and broke something. Hardly a
44 BoeingVista : Quite simple, it is not clear what the issue was or who cause it but knowledge of what it was / who / what caused it could prevent this issue re occu
45 zeke : I think the paper then is just uninformed, the NTSB has also investigated incidents that have not occurred during operation, e.g. the uncontained eng
46 7BOEING7 : And when it is investigated thoroughly by Boeing (or others) if it is a concern it will be broadcast to any parties that need the information (which
47 BoeingVista : No but Boeing refers enquiries to the operator so getting information becomes a circular problem. Again my point, there is an open investigation into
48 PlanesNTrains : So now we know there was a fire on the QR plane? I thought we were in the dark? Frankly, I think you are really crossing a line with your statements.
49 sturmovik : Slightly off topic, but didn't QR cargo lose an A300 to a fire in the hangar? There was a pic on a.net but I remember it being pulled a few weeks late
50 BoeingVista : Where did I say that? You misrepresent me as usual. Then you fail to follow my argument.
51 zeke : Boeing does not own the aircraft, what did you want them to say ? Qatar is its own sovereign nation, the NTSB can only become involved IF invited. Th
52 Post contains links KarelXWB : It seems like there was a fire: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-hush-up-new-qatar-787-fire-fails/
53 HAWK21M : Looks like Electrics is the bogie for the B787.
54 blueshamu330s : Is my mind playing tricks, or was there not an incident early on involving a United frame and ground power hook up ? Rgds
55 Post contains images ferpe : The ground power hook-up is a bit more demanding for the 787 then for non "more-electrical" frames, it consumes about 3 times the power depending on
56 Post contains images USAF336TFS : Why do I get the sense you love these reports? I'm sorry, but I missed the same enthusiastic posting when the A380 had its engine explosion and subse
57 USAF336TFS : Agreed, but unfortunately there's way too many posting irresponsible statements. It's sad because those of us who claim to be aviation enthusiasts sh
58 Tristarsteve : Its not really that the carts are sub standard, just that the standards have been raised again. We used to have ground carts that happily worked on B
59 blueshamu330s : Tristarsteve, using a pad, so unable to quote you. Thanks for the explanation; much appreciated. Rgds
60 Speedbored : Maybe I was away on another planet at the time but I clearly remember a whole load of "enthusiastic posting" about these particular issues at the tim
61 Post contains images oldeuropean : Haha, why should I've written another post when we daily saw 8 to10 new negative posts about the A380 from the other side of the pond. But kidding as
62 USAF336TFS : No worries, I didn't lose any sleep over your comments. I believe I was referring to a thread where you implied the superiority of German engineering
63 USAF336TFS : No I believe it was me that was on another planet, my friend. And I didn't enjoy the criticism of the A380 either. I guess I'm naive to expect those
64 StuckInCA : That's all well and good for intelligent, well intentioned posts. Unfortunately, we seem to have a vocal group of posters who are grinding axes more
65 evomutant : And equal sized group of "see no evil, hear no evil" fanboys (on both sides). Swings and roundabouts. It's why I post so rarely. So much of the debate
66 USAF336TFS : I couldn't agree with you more. I present as evidence above comments. Like you, I have limited my comments because the discussions are really taking
67 PlanesNTrains : You said this: Your statements may be misrepresented if you continually make them with such ambiguity. For example: The inference is that if Boeing/a
68 Speedbored : Well I'm totally in agreement with you on that one. Having worked on, and more recently managed, many complex technical projects, I can attest to the
69 Speedbored : Agreed. But I can't help thinking that, on occasion, some people are a little too oversensitive and infer things from what is written that are not ac
70 Post contains images USAF336TFS : Sometimes the Mods delete what they may think are inflammatory threads, in many cases, because of one or two posts. In that case, it's difficult to g
71 Post contains images KC135R : Let me stress again that I am not denying there may have been smoke and/or fire in this incident, but there is zero new information in this blog that
72 voodoo : There may not be any smoke without fire etc. etc. in both the literal and metaphorical (sources) sense, but the main question one can draw meaningful
73 Post contains images Speedbored : It's certainly suspicious that it's taking so long to get the aircraft back into service but it doesn't necessarily have to mean that there was signi
74 Post contains links and images holzmann : Funny. I think my FRA-MUC flight on 21 JUL arrived at the gate next to this Qatar AC before it departed. This photo was taken at MUC on 21 JUL at arou
75 voodoo : Hmmm you see I would have thought the opposite... There were 787 aircraft and components stashed in every nook and cranny in Seattle while the plane
76 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Lol, funny AND true. So it was YOU!! It's hard to know what to make of it, but every day that goes by does not bode well for it being a minor issue.
77 Speedbored : Agreed. It also seems that the official silence on this "minor incident" is doing more harm than good to the 787's reputation, as it is fueling possi
78 by738 : ...and then, as if by magic....
79 TheRedBaron : We are on the same page, agree 100% Nobody wants that fire at 40K feet, but I concur that the secrecy is fueling a lot of speculation... Just read th
80 sphealey : There's another school of thought that says that that 80% _is_ the design and the improvement, and that no amount of feeding back into a "second syst
81 mjoelnir : It is an aircraft in full production, I think 5 a month moving to 7, that means all parts should be available as all parts are in constant production
82 zeke : I personally do not see the problem, many airlines do not let the public in on how they conduct maintenance. This might be taking longer as Qatar mig
83 KC135R : That might be true, but it is equally possible that the days passing is indicative of nothing. As a prior aircraft maintainer, I can say without a do
84 blueshamu330s : Zeke, I think the problem lies in the fact Qatar have painted themselves into a corner. Despite eyewitness accounts, Qatar have denied there was an in
85 Post contains links zeke : That is inaccurate, from the first paragraph, in the first link in the OP. "Qatar Airways said on Friday it had taken one of its Boeing 787 Dreamline
86 Stitch : The 787 is taking electrics to a new level for a commercial airliner, so not surprising they're encountering new issues. As to the Delay of Game in g
87 mjoelnir : There are two possibilities for no spares availability, there are too few parts produced and that should not only impact spareparts but also producti
88 par13del : So if the airline had unqualified personnel performing work / actions on the a/c which resulted in a fire incident, letting everyone know that they h
89 Post contains images mjoelnir : I find it quite unsubstantiated to speculate when something happens to a B 787 about poor maintenance. So was speculated with Ethiopian Airlines and
90 par13del : The post was not about maintenance but in response to the thought process that the silence on the issue is because there is a fault with the 787 and
91 mjoelnir : You should read your post: unqualified personnel performing work
92 ikramerica : True. There might simply be a problem with a carrier furnished equipment that isn't easily sourced because the 787 is so new, and in the mean time, Q
93 par13del : You should have read the post it was in response to so as to get the context of the response. This is a discussion forum, most do not just post for p
94 Post contains images nutsaboutplanes : Exactly. There are "incidents" every day at every carrier that take airplanes OOS for days, weeks and in some cases months. I have seen SOC's literal
95 kanban : Boeing bases it's spares inventories on past history.. they do not stack everything and major electrical panels are definitely not spared only field
96 mjoelnir : But all this parts are in production for new frames. When you have only a few frames flying the bulk of all produced parts goes for producing new pla
97 ikramerica : As my parents used to say... "and if grandma had wheels she'd be a trolley car." Where is the information coming from that major electrical panels ar
98 mjoelnir : You should follow the discussion. It started out with that the B 787 we are talking about could be waiting for spareparts.
99 flood : Those issues should have been resolved long ago, as Boeing had traced the panel problems to a single manufacturing batch of circuit boards. Unless it
100 mham001 : Harm to whom and from where? If not for speculators hoping for the worst on a.net, nobody would ever know and even fewer would care.
101 kanban : Love it when the outside universe decides what a company should stock as spares or not.. First - there are spares engineers who determine what, when
102 TheRedBaron : Boeinglish !!! man that cracked me up! I guess its equivalent to Airbuspeak.... same kind of mumbo jumbo languages... Anyways, how long is too long t
103 cornutt : Terrific. So now a.net is propagating conspiracy theories. I'm beginning to regret the money I spent on membership.
104 Post contains images flood : Try again. You said: And past history has shown the panels have been susceptible to faults. That said, we don't even know if panels were involved. We
105 cornutt : Agreed, and that is equally ridiculous. Although it appears that the 787 conspiracy theories actually go all the way back to the day the program was
106 kanban : historically over all models this is not true. I believe one panel had a problem which was due to FOD .. although some will loudly debate this from t
107 flood : I'm not disputing that, but it's irrelevant as they have been susceptible to faults on the 787. Laredo wasn't the only incident involving a panel on
108 747megatop : holy smokes, not another smoking 787 again!
109 mjoelnir : Accidents not included, if needed spare parts are not on stock that is enough proof that the manufacturer got it wrong. It is enough talked how revol
110 sankaps : Must have missed it... where does it sound like QR maintenance screwed up and broke something? Because (1) Its a new aircraft type (2) It is using ma
111 777Boeing777 : Your senses serve you well. I actually prefer knowing that the airplane I'm flying on will take off with two wings, and land with two wings. Those wi
112 PITingres : Anyone planning to stock extra panels based on ONE flight test event which was almost certainly FOD, would have been fired as an idiot. And rightly s
113 mjoelnir : I am selling equipment for aircraft refueling as a side business. I do think you do not know what you are talking about. This things are like that. Y
114 Stitch : As with the Main and APU batteries, Boeing appears to have underestimated the replacement rate for power panels, but it's a new SKU for them so they
115 packsonflight : When airlines buy aircrafts I guess they expect the manufactures to provede them with spare parts, in fact most likely they are obliged to be able to
116 777Boeing777 : No, not at all. Nobody can predict when a part will fail. Some fail sooner than others and for different reasons. It does make sense to have parts re
117 ikramerica : But that is only why you want to know or think there is some right to know. As for the "small number" argument, its an excuse to believe its a matter
118 kanban : Traditionally, you are correct, Boeing has moved away from the traditional to just in time manufacture and installation. For background, I was a prod
119 airnorth : Just a quick note on parts and availablilty. The lack of spare parts happens all the time in the automotive world, especially on new vehicles. I can't
120 PITingres : Perfectly true and correct. What we seem to be arguing about is whether the manufacturer is expected to have a global supply of all parts just lying
121 Speedbored : I'm beginning to regret even mentioning lack of spare parts as a possible reason for the delay in getting this aircraft back into service as this thre
122 KarelXWB : AFAIK Ford Genk in Belgium is also working this way. I remember some suppliers went on strike and the whole factory was idle.
123 sankaps : This is the same specious argument you have made several times in various forms in various threads; it did not hold on those occasions, and it does n
124 mjoelnir : You are talking about stock at the dealer. I talk about the availability from the OEM. If your brand new car breaks down, something one would be piss
125 Post contains images KELPkid : Guess the Chinese and Taiwanese knock-off body parts manufacturers can't keep up with the demand either? 90% of the time in the US, the insurer deman
126 Post contains links BoeingVista : FWIW an unnamed Qatar official has now commented, he 'confirms' a panel overheat whether it overheated and tripped a sensor or over heated like your t
127 mjoelnir : Boeing is perhaps trying to do that, but you should have a talk with the suppliers of Boeing and if they are stockpiling components. The Toyota produ
128 kanban : what is the old saying .. you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink... I'll let it drop here until the issue raises it's head again.
129 RickNRoll : KANBAN applies to manufacturing, not support. You can plan to very fine timing when a part is going to be needed in production, but not when it will
130 kanban : go back and read post 101.. there are qualified individuals who determine what to stock and what not to. Consider this also, there are several differ
131 Post contains images lightsaber : I'm not commenting much on this thread, but I'm following it. So thanks for contributing to everyone. I work for a vendor who will make an entire year
132 flood : Only two have been problematic, any others are irrelevant. Do you have a source for the pair of problematic panels being unique for the customer?
133 kanban : two panels each having one issue (one being for, the other undefined) is not justification to lay in a spares inventory.. however if one were that in
134 Post contains images flood : Two panels, one suspected FOD and at least a few other issues. Off the top of my head, these involve the QR frame as mentioned by Stitch, UA's bird w
135 mjoelnir : If a needed spare part is not on stock, again excluding accidents, the qualified individual got it wrong. That the individual is qualified does not p
136 777Boeing777 : Yet you're under the assumption that the qualified individual will be able to predict when any part will fail or need to be replaced. If that were so
137 packsonflight : Aircraft Manufacturers are obliged to make spares available to Airlines, not just brake pads and spark plugs. One possible explanation if Boeing can
138 kanban : Nice to have arm chair analysts with little time to learn from those who have been involved, yet are vigorous in defending some ideal that isn't prac
139 Post contains links KarelXWB : The aircraft involved, A7-BCB, is back in service. It currently operates DOH-FRA. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...ner-787-a7-bcb-is-back-in-the
140 Speedbored : Glad to hear it. Wonder if we'll ever find out exactly what the issue was, or why it took 10 days to rectify. In the absence of any info, my guess is
141 Post contains links KarelXWB : Perhaps a failed power panel, similar to the Air India bird. http://www.livemint.com/Companies/9O...reamliner-delay-for-Air-India.html[Edited 2013-07
142 flood : Probably not from an authoritative source. She was out of service only 9 days, not 10 as reported in the article. Not that it really matters. Anyway,
143 par13del : Is it that they are burning thru the panels faster thna expected or that the modified panels after the FOD issue have not been fully deployed fleet w
144 scbriml : The fire incident on ZA002 in 2010? I can't believe it would take the best part of three years to replace panels in a few planes.
145 BlueShamu330s : Are we looking at panel issues, or is it the regulation of power to these panels which is causing the issues? I'm consistently hearing how sensitive t
146 Speedbored : We don't know because no-one in the know is letting us have that information. My suspicion is that there is inadequate protection in the system from
147 par13del : Is it just replacing them or including adjustments design or otherwise resulting in suppliers having to adjust their production run? Have to go back
148 Speedbored : I might be wrong but I seem to recall that the panels were redesigned after the 'FOD' 'smoke event' so I've been assuming that all of the in-service
149 Post contains links KarelXWB : A bit more info: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-service-after-parts-replaced.html
150 817Dreamliiner : A7-BCB is now back in service, flew to FRA according to FR24.
151 Stitch : That is correct, Speedbored. Boeing and the contractors made changes to the power panels in 2013 and tested them during the grounding period (the FAA
152 sonomaflyer : I hope this calms down the tin-foil hat conspiracy theorists. Doha is a long way from where the panels are produced and any of a number of reasons ca
153 sankaps : Thanks for the link. Some interesting info in there. Has the P300 panel failed before? It will indeed be interesting to know if this is the same pane
154 Stitch : I don't recall such a failure and a Google search turned up nothing. The 787 has, as I recall, five main power panels. P100 receives power from the l
155 BlueShamu330s : Thanks Speedbored. Whilst the Dreamliner issues are a matter of frustration for all, as someone out of the Boeing loop, I confess to finding the saga
156 sankaps : This to me is not good news... so much better if it is the same panel that failed, at least then you can zero in on the one panel. To have the P300 f
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