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F9 Sold?  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7138 posts, RR: 13
Posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 24872 times:

This is strangely worded. It sort of says it is sold without saying to who and saying it is contingent on a bunch of other things that they refuse to talk about. Par for the course I guess...

http://skift.com/2013/07/26/republic...m-sheet-to-sell-frontier-airlines/

195 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7138 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 24718 times:

OK, on the conference call it says it is a "non-binding" agreement. So, it means nothing yet...

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2757 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 24564 times:

i guess that it's not just so easy to sell an airline these days.... although maybe after all of the Ts have been crossed and the Is have been dotted well..... maybe then an announcement could have been made.......

 


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7138 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 24532 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 2):

i guess that it's not just so easy to sell an airline these days.... although maybe after all of the Ts have been crossed and the Is have been dotted well..... maybe then an announcement could have been made.......

It is such a loose announcement that I'm not sure any means any more than what they said 3 months ago or 6 months ago.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 24399 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
It is such a loose announcement that I'm not sure any means any more than what they said 3 months ago or 6 months ago.

Yes, they've become the kings of flopped "big news coming".

KOA Radio in Denver just reported the same thing on the 11am news report.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 24250 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 4):
KOA Radio in Denver just reported the same thing on the 11am news report.

Saw that too.

Any speculations?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25137 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 23878 times:

Back in April it was mentioned the two interested parties were Indigo Partners LLC and Anchorage Capital Group.

Phoenix based Indigo headed by former America West Chairman is the one with much wider airline experience, especially with the LCC sector. (Spirit, Wizz, Tiger, Volaris, etc.)


To me the bigger comments of interest made in the article were:

Bedford noted that Republic has made it an overriding goal to sell Frontier in 2013, and plans to discuss the matter with shareholders in September. He added that Republic is not putting the resources into Frontier to take it to the next level.

If the sale does not go through, then management will discuss with shareholders “where we go from there,” Bedford said.


Sounds a bit ominous....



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinedrgmobile From Canada, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 23788 times:

Third party agreements sounds like it could be unions -- Is Frontier unionized? Or significant creditors. I always thought Spirit made sense for teaming up with them.

User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2040 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 23659 times:

I wonder if the Dickie Birds are saying anything or is it being kept a secret??.

If Republic moved their annual meeting back sounds like they may vote on the sale of Frontier. Stay tune haters you will have news soon...LOL. Good luck to all the Frontier folks.



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7138 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 23490 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
To me the bigger comments of interest made in the article were:
Bedford noted that Republic has made it an overriding goal to sell Frontier in 2013, and plans to discuss the matter with shareholders in September. He added that Republic is not putting the resources into Frontier to take it to the next level.

If the sale does not go through, then management will discuss with shareholders “where we go from there,” Bedford said.
Sounds a bit ominous....

I missed that, but I agree that implies a shutdown if the sale is not completed...but who knows.

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 7):
Third party agreements sounds like it could be unions -- Is Frontier unionized? Or significant creditors. I always thought Spirit made sense for teaming up with them.

Usually in something like this the 3rd parties are the financing for the deal, but since this thing is non-binding I would not attach much to this. This term sheet may have been in place 6 months ago. Did they say it was recently signed anywhere? I do not think that since it is non-binding that it is "material" and required for disclosure.

A term sheet is little more than a price tag on a can of peaches.

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 8):
If Republic moved their annual meeting back sounds like they may vote on the sale of Frontier. Stay tune haters you will have news soon...LOL. Good luck to all the Frontier folks.

Not sure what that means. It implies something more than a non-binding agreement would.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5504 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 23370 times:

Someone must be watching the numbers at NK and G4 and are wanting a piece of the action. Bedford is going to want his best return possible for his mainline excursion. To me, one big unresolved issue is DEN. Would an ULCC want a true hub, and if not, how do you get Frontier, without paying more than you want, for more than you need?

I have nothing against WN, but it'll be a bitter pill to swallow to see them succeed in booting Frontier from Denver, however it ends up happening.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3127 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 23015 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 10):
To me, one big unresolved issue is DEN. Would an ULCC want a true hub, and if not, how do you get Frontier, without paying more than you want, for more than you need?

I have nothing against WN, but it'll be a bitter pill to swallow to see them succeed in booting Frontier from Denver, however it ends up happening.

If F9 becomes a twin of NK (which it is in many respects), NK's injection into DFW, CHI, DTW, LAS, and DEN seems to make little difference to the existing major carriers there, either that or they can't do much about NK's establishment. F9 could do the same if/when it gains even more mass and momentum. But they need to be growing and staying rather than shrinking and retreating. At any rate, I think their missions are different enough.

And maybe it is NK that is the rumored investor, and that would make some sense already in DEN.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Back in April it was mentioned the two interested parties were Indigo Partners LLC and Anchorage Capital Group.

Phoenix based Indigo headed by former America West Chairman is the one with much wider airline experience, especially with the LCC sector. (Spirit, Wizz, Tiger, Volaris, etc.)

I had to look this up because you mentioning America West, my first thought was that it was Ed Beauvais, and wouldn't that be ironic given his loss of WestPac to a board of directors who attempted to merge with infant Frontier 2.0. But my wild speculation is off, It turns out to be Dr. William Franke, according to Bloomberg, and it mentions his CEO-ship of USAirways but not America West, though someone out there can refresh my memory or correct it. I'm wary of CEOs who go by Dr. when the doctorate is an honorary one from a second tier state university.

And lookie there, Franke is chairman of the board at Spirit. It seems to be falling into place, unless if falls apart.

Interesting, I see Bloomberg has corrected that Dr. title in the last hour. It's now Mr. Franke. Weird. I'm less wary now, but more wary of Bloomberg News.

-Rampart


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9337 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 22918 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 11):
Interesting, I see Bloomberg has corrected that Dr. title in the last hour. It's now Mr. Franke. Weird. I'm less wary now, but more wary of Bloomberg News.

The sourcing which came into Bloomberg was wrong. Bloomberg appropriately made a correction.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5026 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 22830 times:

Bedford pretty much sums it up. He is not putting any resources into F9 to take it to the next level. If that does not raise eyebrows, then I don't know what else can. That alone tells me that Bedford is pretty much finished with his experiment. As for someone buying F9? I am hopeful, but not confident. If F9 was consistently profitable, then I would be all warm and fuzzy.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6750 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 22727 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
If the sale does not go through, then management will discuss with shareholders “where we go from there,” Bedford said.

Sounds a bit ominous....

Agreed. And it would seem to diminish Republic's negotiating leverage with potential buyers. But I suppose the parent company's interest in selling F9 has been no secret for at least a year.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 10):
I have nothing against WN, but it'll be a bitter pill to swallow to see them succeed in booting Frontier from Denver, however it ends up happening.

Obviously WN liked what it saw enough to want to buy the company and keep a big chunk of the staff -- but that was not meant to be.


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 22529 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
Obviously WN liked what it saw enough to want to buy the company and keep a big chunk of the staff -- but that was not meant to be.

What assets does F9 have now? Anyone else think NK could be trying to buy it for the planes only?



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinenuggetsyl From United States of America, joined May 2006, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 22382 times:

Ok my guess is jetblue will buy F9. But I am clearly no expert.

User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5411 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 22385 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
It is such a loose announcement that I'm not sure any means any more than what they said 3 months ago or 6 months ago.

The agreement probably includes a non-disclosure agreement and allows the unnamed party to perform a due diligence examination of Frontier's books. Either side can walk away: Mr. Anonymous, if he doesn't like what he sees, or Republic, if they get a better offer.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3127 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22195 times:

Quoting nuggetsyl (Reply 16):

Ok my guess is jetblue will buy F9. But I am clearly no expert.

Unlikely at this point. A few years ago, maybe they were similar, but they are on divergent paths now. Jetblue wouldn't benefit from anything but aircraft orders and a bigger presence in DEN, but they haven't gone for a bigger presence anywhere in the middle of the country, yet, and DEN would not be the best place for that, in a Jetblue model.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22131 times:

I doubt another airline is going to buy F9, it is likely going to be a private equity firm (like the aforementioned Indigo Partners).

User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7136 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 22004 times:

Quoting nuggetsyl (Reply 16):
Ok my guess is jetblue will buy F9. But I am clearly no expert.

Why buy with all the associated cost if as it looks now, there is the potental that the airline will "go away"?
Sit on the side lines and see what happens, much cheaper.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25137 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 21968 times:

As far as what the purchaser of F9 potentially really gets, its a brand and any intrinsic value behind it.

They really are not getting anything physically as the entire fleet is either leased or mortgage. Buildings and airport facilities are on leases. There is a shrinking employee pool as airport handling has now been farmed out.

F9 is not the typical airline that has a bevy of assets that can be valued in the typical sense.

Its really a name and brand and whatever value that drives this as an ongoing business enterprise to a prospective purchaser.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13554 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 21921 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
As far as what the purchaser of F9 potentially really gets, its a brand and any intrinsic value behind it.

Which begs the question - what Is it that Indigo is seeing in terms of potential value that other parties are not?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5154 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 21909 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
They really are not getting anything physically as the entire fleet is either leased or mortgage. Buildings and airport facilities are on leases. There is a shrinking employee pool as airport handling has now been farmed out.

You're getting a going concern that has procedures, trained people, and an active operation.

That's hardly just buying a brand.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 21863 times:
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Quoting Polot (Reply 19):
I doubt another airline is going to buy F9, it is likely going to be a private equity firm (like the aforementioned Indigo Partners).

  

The answer to the OP's question is - no.

Frontier has not been sold nor has any official at Republic (or Frontier) suggested that it has been sold. The process has simply moved to the next - and logical - stage. CEO Siegel, in a subsequent letter to the staff, sounded more chipper than he has for a while, but nothing is carved in granite, and sure, it could all fall apart.

Despite the embargo on questions about the Frontier sale, a couple of interesting pieces of trivia came out of the cc regarding the forward Frontier business plan - which is what they are actually selling. That - predictably - the Airbus order would be transferred to Frontier and that - less predictably - they presently assume that Frontier will resume growth mode next year, 2014.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Sounds a bit ominous....

Well, mayhap. I'm not sure what else he could say, though. If the BOD, on behalf of the shareholders, has required the sale, the BOD needs to decide on whatever Plan B it wants - on behalf of the shareholders.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 22):
Which begs the question - what Is it that Indigo is seeing in terms of potential value that other parties are not?

Is it Indigo? It may be, but I'm not prepared to put money on it yet.

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 PlanesNTrains : Indigo would be getting a going concern that is already on the road to ULCC-hood. It might be enough to get them to bite - who knows? If so, though, t
26 LAXintl : Which is what I said below. But besides that its a paper enterprise. Nothing real hard you can hold and say its owned. Also once you pull off the Rep
27 enilria : Yes, but NK had a 16% operating margin in the quarter. F9 had a 4%. No reason to buy them. I think you are right which does not square with this... .
28 mariner : Of course you would. LOL. mariner
29 PlanesNTrains : Enilria, if F9 had a 16% operating margin, they wouldn't be for sale today. Bedford would have done the spin-off or whatever by now. But - they don't,
30 Polot : If F9 had a 16% operating margin Bedford wouldn't be selling them in the first place.
31 Post contains images LV : It's DL.... DL is buying F9 just to get the planes and move it's hub from SLC to DEN.
32 Beardown91737 : I was thinking it was US to fill the UA codeshares they are walking away from.
33 F9animal : I am hopeful F9 gets bought by a competent group. The main hope is to see Siegel get kicked to the curb, and Bedford a distant memory. I had such high
34 mariner : Be interesting to see what happens if Frontier hits the 8-10% margin they are estimating for Q3. Which airlines has he destroyed? And if your reply i
35 n7371f : Boy lost a ton of respect from all your postings with this comment. Idiotic. There's nothing in his comment that implies anything.
36 Post contains images cschleic : Then merge it with AS. As soon as DL was mentioned, there had to be an AS comment! Now back to the topic....
37 jerseyguy : Unfortunately, it looks like your best shots are investors that have invested with Spirit and Wizzair. While I am not familiar with Wizz Air, I do kn
38 GentFromAlaska : If AS didn't fly all Boeing metal I can't help but think about AS as a possible suitor for F9. DEN is valuable real estate and the perfect airport sli
39 RWA380 : Yes I think AQ fell for this trick by Mesa, and look at how that went for them.
40 enilria : I keep saying this. It's a 4% OPERATING MARGIN. That's a loss. Unfortunately, companies have to pay interest and taxes. If you look at Republic's ove
41 jerseyguy : After the terminal renovations are done, TTN is going to have atleast 2 gates, which means that they should be able to handle 2 flights boarding at t
42 OB1504 : Baldanza's right, though. The financial returns speak for themselves. That being said, I flew NK last night and we had a 3-hour delay due to a late i
43 mariner : Yes, you keep saying it. They keep saying income. In that case, I guess the Airbus NEO order would go away. I'm not sure that will happen. mariner[Ed
44 MaverickM11 : Who would you like to see run F9? And separately, who is competent and would want to run F9? That'd be a fascinating Venn diagram.
45 MasseyBrown : Is Republic as desperate as Aloha was? I don't know; but that's the risk you take. Riskier maybe if Ohrstein is the one knocking at the door, but sti
46 Post contains images mtnwest1979 : No, no. It will be history repeating itself. PEOPLExpress will buy Frontier......
47 jerseyguy : No they do make money, no doubt about it, but I think its sad how people put up with poor treatment just to save a buck. I don't fly Spirit for that
48 PlanesNTrains : .. I started to type that but then retracted because I assume that the end game all along was that Frontier would be profitable and that Republic wou
49 Post contains links KC135R : According to this article, maybe Indigo Partners, a Spirit shareholder: http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...er%20(Denver%20Business%20Journal)
50 dwightm : Any remote chance of VX looking at this deal? DEN might be an additional attractive hub for VX. Both fly essentially the same aircraft. It would give
51 sccutler : Seems to me their best chance is someone buying the airline for its operating certificate. --- I know it cold have turned out differently (it still ma
52 FRNT787 : They just took another aircraft a week ago. Yes many left the fleet over the last year. But that was a known part of the restructuring. Their fleet p
53 Polot : A heavily competitive hub like DEN isn't something VX needs right now, and the rest of F9's operations (i.e. TTN) don't really fit with VX's model.
54 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Such a premium hub . Clearly loads of DEN passengers value perks like IFE, high end meals, and first class
55 awacsooner : I really wish WN would have ended up with F9...while I would miss the critters, at least the employees would've been taken care of, instead of this co
56 93Sierra : Would WN been happier wih F9 vs Airtran?
57 Frontier14 : Unfortunately for Frontier, SW was not going to take all the employees, only a percentage and leaving the remainder (junior hires) to the street. The
58 GentFromAlaska : Concur, Concur, Although NK reminds me more of being a carrier built around gimmicks.
59 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : RJET shares are tweaking higher in after hours trading on the BB non-announcement. http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/RJET up 4.14% after Friday's close.
60 EA CO AS : Two heads may generally be better than one, but not when both are stupid.
61 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I guess same goes for three and RP/YX/F9
62 wwtraveler99 : True! But look where those employees are now that F9 has decided to contract out thier ground services (except for DEN, please correct if this is inc
63 FRNT787 : I wonder if the old frontier employees wish they hadn't been acquired by People Express. It makes just as much sense to hash that out as the "What if
64 F9animal : wwtraveler99... I was against it, because I thought Republic would have taken Frontier to new heights. When I saw the route map combined with Midwest,
65 PlanesNTrains : With respect, not having gotten an offer would have meant not being employed, which was already a tool in your arsenal if you so chose. I realize job
66 mke717spotter : I think they already started paving the wave for Bedford to replace Hoeksema (he was just a puppet in the latter stages I think) even before the buyo
67 enilria : It's just they you trumpet a single quarter with a 10% operating margin as if it was a sign of success. What that adds up to is a significant annuali
68 mariner : When I - correctly - called the results of the auction before it happened, you (patronisingly) told me that I know nothing about accounting. Since I
69 FRNT787 : No A320s have left. A318s and high lease rate A319s have left. That sounds good to me.
70 F9animal : I agree PlanesNTrains 110%. I did leave, as I could not bear it anymore. It was a very difficult decision, but I saw the writing on the wall. When Cli
71 enilria : It's corporate weasel words. It's an operating profit, not a net profit. He didn't specify. Well, whatever. The point is that swapping leased planes
72 mariner : I guess you missed the last lines of my post. mariner
73 MSYtristar : I know quite a few hard working, dedicated people who were with F9 for years, strongly opposed to the WN acquisition, and are now out of a job. Of co
74 FRNT787 : I don't understand your point. When did I say they were investing heavily? My point was that they are still adding planes...which is true. BB said th
75 n7371f : The last A318 (803) was suppose to have left by now - it was even pulled from service and parked at DEN - but it spent last night as a RON in GEG and
76 enilria : My point is that there are ways to say things that technically true, but that are effectively untrue. Such is the art of PR. He didn't fit in, howeve
77 F9animal : n7371f, damaged A319? What plane, and what kind of damage?
78 mariner : I know what your point is, you keep saying it. And I can only repeat myself - I guess you didn't read the last two airlines of my post. Or any of my
79 Post contains links mariner : I don't know if this has anything to do with anything, but Indigo has been mentioned by several people in connection with the Frontier deal. Now today
80 Post contains images point2point : Well...... IF..... Indigo is now going after F9..... they are going to need some $$$$$$$$........ Interesting turns of events definitely.......
81 mariner : Either that, or Indigo thinks its great run with Spirit has done its big dash. mariner
82 Post contains images point2point : I would presume (or maybe not) that if Indigo wanted to hang on to NK, and at the same time invest in F9, there wouldn't be any regulatory stuff prev
83 mariner : None that I know of. Maybe the partners (in Indigo) just wanted to cash up - they've made a big bundle but it is only paper profit until they sell. A
84 sunking737 : I was told plane vs jetway. SY had been doing sub-service with one 737-800 on a MSP-DEN-SEA-DEN-MSP-DEN-MSP routing. This was over the last two weeks
85 onaclearday : I was definitely against the proposed buy-out of F9 by WN. I favored the Republic plan because it gave the greatest number of current (at the time) F
86 GentFromAlaska : On Saturday I read both the Indigo Partners and the Anchorage Capital Group LLC biz bio's. In the airline arena Indigo Partners LLC far-far exceeds A
87 n7371f : Well at the point it's pretty obvious who the bidder is. I think it's great for Frontier that Franke sees value and potential in the airline. So much
88 Post contains links sunking737 : News of note, Spirit's C.O.B. has resigned, Indigo Partners has placed shares of the airline on the market. So Indigo should be buying Frontier. "Spir
89 Jerseyguy : Already posted but yeah its pretty clear its Indigo. Being that IND recently invested with Spirit, I think its likely that LiveTV is gone (Too heavy
90 mariner : I don't think any of those things have much to do with Indigo. LiveTV is heavy and expensive, old technology,I assume it is already on the way out, a
91 Jerseyguy : How are they unbundling, Classic still gets you 2 checked bags, $50 off the change fee, Select Seating, Discount on Stretch Seating and unlimited sta
92 enilria : OK, now this all makes sense. I made no sense for NK to merge with F9. Indigo is basically saying that NK has topped and is selling now. They are buy
93 Post contains links mariner : It gives you the choice of what and how much you want to buy: http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_231496...ge-some-customers-carry-ons-drinks ""As we unbun
94 Jerseyguy : Re: Bundling I meant F9 bundling some of those services that they now charge for into the Classic fare. Checked bags instead of paying $20 per bag if
95 Post contains links mariner : You asked me how Frontier is unbundling and I explained, as the CEO said and as in the linked article in the previous post: http://www.mercurynews.co
96 stlgph : Not at all. It's a raise of capitalization. Right now Spirit is roughly trading at $35 and the most common analysis is for the stock to hit $43 in th
97 enilria : Don't really understand what you mean, but the stock is down 10% today as I predicted. Yes, Indigo is being shrewd. Not blaming them. Buy low, sell h
98 PlanesNTrains : I think he's saying the same thing you are: -Dave
99 Flytravel : The Big Front Seat on NK isn't all that comfortable. There is no tray table in front even in Row 2, but maybe it was on the side. The setup anyways w
100 roswell41 : F9 employees are in for a big surprise if they think life will be better under Bill Franke. He has an ideological opposition to unions and will do wha
101 Jerseyguy : I don't know but people do. It seems that US is now matching NK on their routes out of PHL. Usually in this case I would go with the carrier that bro
102 stlgph : No, you're saying Spirit stock has hit its high and that's it. I am saying otherwise. I'm saying they (Indigo) are selling out for capital to go long
103 Post contains images point2point : Wow! Who woulda thought that NK was the airline stock to be buying?
104 n7371f : As I (and several others) predicted, it's William Franke & his Indigo Partners, per the WSJ. Article quotes source close to Franke. Believes there
105 mariner : Sure it is, but no matter how well Spirit does, it is unlikely to achieve the same percentage returns - over an equivalent period of time - as it has
106 Post contains images Jerseyguy : Can't say I'm surprised but 28"non-reclining seats here we come. Only way I'm flying F9 after they do this is as long as stretch seating is still ava
107 slcdeltarumd11 : Republic will be trying to recoop some of its losses in money it has pumped into and expenses it had purchasing both midwest and frontier in this sal
108 mariner : Indeed, it may never recoup the total amount it invested - but most of that money was written off, long ago, or has been a tax advantage. If Republic
109 enilria : I'm sure it will be a different theo/ideology from BB! Again, we don't know what all these execs and Indigo know. I think the presumption should alwa
110 stlgph : With due respect to a lot of my analyst friends, many of them do get great access to a lot of great insight. I'd buy and stay long.
111 enilria : But insiders often know a lot more. That's why people watch trades by insiders so closely.
112 Flytravel : You forgot higher density configuration, likely #1. Even Southwest's evolve has squeezed a row in. I'd add MDW to the possible list for focuses, but
113 airliner371 : There is absolutely no room for more then a small operation. They could maybe get all 3 gates in C but that is it. The 3 DCA flights they have are lo
114 commavia : It does appear that the long-term goal is to turn Frontier into "Spirit West" - another ULCC. It was clear from Bedford's comments on the Republic ca
115 Post contains images stlgph : I do think we agree that Phoenix's role after the US/AA merger is complete will be interesting. Allegiant folks have come out and say "they very much
116 MSYtristar : I agree. NK+F9 would form one mega ULCC so to speak. That's the only way I can see this working and be even more successful long term. Might as well
117 GentFromAlaska : With the color purple in mind; Yahoo Airlines perhaps! Makes your wonder if we might see the "Spirit of the West" slogan again. I will be gone too.
118 roswell41 : I think that may be the ultimate plan. Fix F9 into a true ULCC, IPO it and then make more money with a merger with NK. In a five year time horizon thi
119 mariner : More than "appear". Bedford stated it - ULCC - as strategy when separation (from Republic) was first announced. Since then, there have been "adjustme
120 commavia : True, but Frontier and Southwest do still overlap in lots of high-volume markets - LAX, SFO, SEA, LAS, CHI, HOU, MCI, etc. - where I think a ULCC app
121 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : If it does happen and it's still a if. Surprisingly NK doesn't fly to three of F9 better performing markets DCA, SEA and ANC (be it seasonal) http://w
122 mariner : Well, in several, sure. But those are high-volume markets and I'm not sure why lower fares would drive folk away from Frontier to Southwest and, espe
123 commavia : Lower fares wouldn't drive people away. But the degradation of the product will. Frontier has cultivated an image and customer value proposition - es
124 enilria : They are already doing the increased seating and it will continue. MDW has no gates. SEA/BOS are fine because ULCCs don't care about connections. TPA
125 F9animal : Oh yeah, the pilots are going to be cooked. Inflight is also going to suffer wage cuts. If Indigo does a Spirit move, expect some even more workforce
126 mariner : If this goes forward, Mr, Siegel will have fulfilled exactly his brief. And Mr. Bedford will ave a big smile on his face. mariner
127 MKENut : I've been staying out of the conversation about F9 for a long time now. Mostly because I don't have anything good to say about the airline. I think a
128 Post contains images OB1504 : The grey leather seats on NK's A319s and A321s really haven't aged well, and I've seen passengers board the aircraft and get the impression that it m
129 Jerseyguy : You flew F9 for the animals, sure its a nice touch but it wouldn't keep me from flying them if they were dropped.. I assume their will be plenty of o
130 enilria : Sadly with each new owner the previous phase becomes the "good ole days" because as an employee it is all downhill from here. I am very happy as a co
131 mariner : I have no idea where this is coming from. Indigo is cashing up and getting out of Spirit. It will have no leverage to initate a merger of Frontier wi
132 enilria : Yay. Yes, it seems pretty simple. Sell high- NK. Buy low- F9. Whether it works again...who knows, but I also agree with you that the new management w
133 mariner : When have I said that? I have made no comment about the relationship of future management to staff - or staff to future management - because I don't
134 Jerseyguy : I think he may be thinking of my statements, I've said to F9Animal that he'd be longing for the days of Siegel and Bedford
135 mariner : Maybe, who knows? I guess I respect successful achievers rather more some on a.net. mariner
136 enilria : Perhaps I confused the poster, but I still think it is true. Smart cookie or no, he is going to change things a lot. I think the employees deserve to
137 GentFromAlaska : A lot of BISM "Butt In Seat Miles" The critters are a nice touch in theme jets. I just don't care for the way NK sells its product. In my mind it's t
138 MasseyBrown : This morning's WSJ says Republic expects to close on the sale to Indigo by the end of the third quarter. The article includes a discussion of Bill Fra
139 Post contains images mcg : Wow, I think I hear angels singing!!
140 Post contains images MSYtristar : It's just my opinion. Not saying it will happen. I think the synergies are there, and they could better create a national presence and overall brand
141 F9animal : IMO, Indigo wanted Spirit and F9 to merge. Which is why we are seeing Indigo bail out on Spirit. I think Indigk can do some good things for Frontier.
142 MSYtristar : He's just going to add fuel to the fire by requesting that. The one's that are probably talking negatively are the one's who have been with F9 for a
143 mariner : No, not at all confused. I never said what you claimed. I think this is the best possible (realistic) outcome for Frontier, largely because Franke ha
144 Post contains links LAXintl : WSJ confirms its Indigo that has the exclusive on Frontier. http://goo.gl/8mGEfU =
145 Post contains links Jerseyguy : http://www.businessweek.com/articles...ne-for-americas-cheapest-travelers That has to be one of the most laughable statements I've heard in awhile, an
146 sccutler : What proportion of the people who were employed by F9 at the time of the sale to Republic (and declining to be acquired by Southwest) are still emplo
147 Post contains images enilria : I know that NK didn't and their most recent aircraft order of a few weeks ago made that even clearer. I don't see any reason why Indigo would have wa
148 MSYtristar : I wonder if the remaining Ascent and Summit members will jump ship once the full ULCC transition is complete? I know F9 has been taking steps to reduc
149 Post contains images enilria : Summit will probably be replaced by the $8.99 Fare Club.
150 Post contains links Jerseyguy : Hopefully they are just modeling NK and not the $65 bag fees of Ryan Air http://metro.co.uk/2013/07/31/ryanai...ggage-fees-by-66-per-cent-3907181/
151 GentFromAlaska : William Franke could be a rouge buyer. The WSJ article says he resigned as the chairman from NK which leads me to believe he wants the airline but not
152 LAXintl : And the WSJ article states Indigo specializes in the ULCC carrier field - all its previous airline investments have been either creation or adoption
153 GentFromAlaska : I would have loved to have read it. The article did not populate in the forty five or so seconds I attempted to access it. Hence I can only assume it
154 usflyguy : Check with NK employees and see what they think about the new F9 leadership. They aren't coming in to make friends, they are coming in to cut costs e
155 Post contains images mariner : You never know. Franke was a director of Ryanair. That's where he learned his tricks. Which has to happen. Frontier's costs are still too high. marin
156 Jerseyguy : With all due respect, wake up. From an employee standpoint things are about to get much worse. And even if you are correct that Beford and Seigel are
157 mariner : I wonder why he took a house in Denver, then. mariner
158 Post contains images MSYtristar : Ski buff?
159 mariner : In summer? LOL. DirectTV is old technology, heavy, costing fuel and Frontier lost money on it. Maybe they'll go Wifi. I'm intrigued folk here are clu
160 MSYtristar : Well...it is beautiful in CO this time of year...just finished doing some of the extreme jeep trails near TEX in the San Juans. I can see that. Heck,
161 Post contains images mariner : Expensive, though, if he's just phoning it in, as is claimed. Once again, being "crammed in" doesn't seem to put folk off Spirit and I don't know why
162 Post contains images point2point : There will be people in the Denver/Front Range area who probably will continue to support F9, if it does any sort of operation really at all. In such
163 Flytravel : Re: IAD, VX still prefers it over BWI, for the west coast to DC region transcons. B6 also still keeps a greater presence at IAD over BWI, even though
164 mariner : Frontier has no within perimeter DCA (or LGA) slots to sell. Those DCA slots are all in Republic's name, acquired with the purchase of Midwest. and f
165 rampart : Which brings up a good question. How is Spirit doing in DEN? Aren't they gaining popularity, and added new destinations recently? -Rampart
166 mcg : I think the reason F9 brings so much emotion to this forum is that Frontier version 2 was predicated on the idea that an airline could succeed by offe
167 Frontier14 : Perception is that they are not going gangbusters by any means, but picking up some folks who are driven by the their advertised low ticket fares. Fr
168 OB1504 : None of the NK ground employees I've spoken to (myself included) had anything negative to say. The company was making money and none of us planned on
169 Post contains images point2point : I believe that NK began in DEN on 5/3/12, with a total of six flights..... 2-LAS, 2-DFW, 1-ORD and 1-FLL, and in that May 2012 (2 days short) NK flew
170 Jerseyguy : Is this one of those Keep Austin Wierd kinda vibes, stay away Home Depot we want to shop Bob's Value Hardware?? Sure if the product is a good product
171 Post contains images point2point : Of course there may be some who don't like the new format of F9, but then there may be others to whom this new way of flying (save $$$$) is appealing
172 mariner : It's scarcely a "new format." Frontier has been headed for ULCC since January 2012 and as it has moved to ULCC the load factors have gone up, not dow
173 Jerseyguy : It hasn't reached its destination yet and Franke is going to step on the accelerator. When they decrease seat pitch. install pre-reclined seats, char
174 Post contains links mariner : But not all of the airlines in which Franke is invested follow the Spirit pattern - Tiger Airways, for example, is 30" seat pitch as (I believe) is W
175 Jerseyguy : Did you just say that you enjoyed it. Not that it wasn't worse than other airlines or the discount was sufficant that it was worth it but that you ac
176 mariner : Yes. It was a seat on a plane, it got me where I wanted to go and I understood the charges. The total cost of the trip (all charges) was far better t
177 bjorn14 : This will be key for customers and employees if F9 is to be a success going forward- I've flown FR too and did the same and actually in some respects
178 enilria : No doubt it is ULCC model. Disabuse yourself of any other thoughts. Exactly At least until the company starts making money and if it pays our stock o
179 Flytravel : WN/FL is down that % and much greater amount of departures in PHL from over 60 departures to around 20. Since then VX, B6, NK, AS and F9 (at TTN/ILG)
180 enilria : My point is that IAD is a graveyard of LCC failure and I think I amply proved that. They could certainly try to reverse the trend. Any time the prefe
181 GentFromAlaska : Yes ULCC as in Ultra-Low-Cost-Carrier which. Low cost is a tow sided coin; the low cost of operations and the low cost of fares. As of yet I cannot f
182 FRNT787 : I believe they start this month. Unless you buy the ticket on their website. If you do that, then it's still free.
183 Flytravel : Spirit just has 4 Big Front Seats on some planes. I'm not sure how many in it's fleet. It makes a small percentage of seats and it's very expensive r
184 F9animal : My biggest concern is the employees. I just want them to have a job at this point. They have done everything asked of them through all these years, an
185 mariner : Sure it is a short-term position - his brief was to make the company profitable and attractive to an investor. I assume his paymasters, TPG, will mov
186 mariner : The point is that Spirit has them at all - and has kept them. If Big Front Seats aren't bringing in additional revenue, why would a company as acutel
187 Post contains links and images point2point : CAPA has an article about the current F9 situation...... http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...he-ulcc-evolution-in-the-us-121838 ..... and is mostly
188 GentFromAlaska : I can work with that.
189 Jerseyguy : I think though that as the time goes by and the number of third party bookings goes down and they come off more third party sites, at some point they
190 Frontier14 : JersyGuy, It seems as though you have taken a left turn and went south with F9. You were a strong advocate for F9 regarding Trenton, but now that has
191 Jerseyguy : I still want F9 to work at Trenton and as you say Spirit Airlines has been profitable with the ULCC model. My left turn was taken out of my hating NK
192 RyanairGuru : Sorry for a bit of topic creep, but I'd just like to concur with Mariner. I understand what Mariner is saying. On my flights with FR I have had no rea
193 mariner : Frontier almost went belly-up four times. Anyone can have a different opinion, but this is what I saw and wrote about on a regular basis, mostly on Y
194 GentFromAlaska : Mariner, with all do respect; in fairness to F9Animal as you have so eloquently stated mistakes were made at the top. Leadership 101 teaches us that
195 mariner : I didn't list any mistakes made at the top by Siegel at Frontier. His brief is to make the airline profitable and attractive to an investor. Not ever
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