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British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta  
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15684 times:

The Jakarta Post is reporting that British Airways and Egyptair are due for a comeback at Jakarta, whereas Oman Air and others are bound to start operations there.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...oreign-carriers-fly-indonesia.html

The potential return of British Airways is remarkable, as it comes on the heels of Lufthansa's retreat from the Indonesian market in late 2012, leaving KLM and Turkish Airlines as the sole European operators in the Indonesian market. BA is unlikely return to Jakarta with a nonstop operation, which would make it the sole nonstop flight from Europe, but will likely combine Jakarta with some other city is its network. A return to Kuala Lumpur may then be on the horizon, although other options exist. BA's Heathrow to Jakarta plans may also shed a different light on Garuda's possible change of mind regarding nonstop Jakarta to Gatwick operations, which are due to start later in the year.

The addition of Oman Air at Jakarta, meanwhile, would add to the abundance of travel options offered by Middle Eastern carriers. Jakarta is currently served by Emirates (3 daily B77W), Qatar (soon to be 2 daily B77W), Etihad (daily B77W) as well as Kuwait Airways and Yemenia. The ever increasing flight offerings of these airlines were one of the reasons cited by Lufthansa for leaving the market.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15461 times:

Indonesia is just seeing the same market forces that Australia has seen, with European carriers redeploying capacity in the face of the ME3 expansion.

I can't see BA coming to CGK, unless they really wanted to start KUL services and added a tag on.

LH leaving the market shows the pressures that are being experienced and even though demand is growing, yields will still be an issue for a few years to come.


User currently offlinechangyou From Singapore, joined Nov 2003, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15388 times:
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Thought LH left CGK due to equipment changed to A380? Is CGK A380 compatible?
Rumor on SIN side has it that BA will operate LHR-SIN-CGKvv


User currently offlinemloew From Germany, joined Oct 2011, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 15245 times:

Quoting changyou (Reply 2):
Thought LH left CGK due to equipment changed to A380?

Well, after they shifted the FRA-SIN service to the A380, they moved the -CGK tag to the MUC-SIN flight (A343), but that was cancelled eventually.



Proudly flying Oman Air
User currently offlineB747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 15097 times:

According to this article last year the UK was the 4th largest investor in Indonesia and the sum invested is growing.

http://www.asianewsnet.net/UK-sees-I...a-as-strategic-partner--41387.html

Whether that translates to enough frequent business travel to help fill flights with higher yielding passengers is another matter.


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14965 times:

Most likely scenario would be the BA11 continuing on to CGK from SIN

User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 14516 times:

I would think CGK is a good option for BA's new 788?

User currently offlineMAS777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13649 times:

BA11 has already been retimed from Winter 2013 to allow a CGK tag on.

User currently offlinedirktraveller From Singapore, joined Jan 2011, 587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13468 times:

Good news for CGK. I saw once on a local Indonesian media, mentioning a "possible return of LH to Jakarta" (I consider it quite funny considering LH just dropped the route less than a year earlier).

I do wonder how Egypt Air would route their flight into Jakarta from CAI, and would the political condition in Egypt would allow this route to start soon? Personally for BA it is good news, although I would believe when they start the flights.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 5):
Most likely scenario would be the BA11 continuing on to CGK from SIN
Quoting MAS777 (Reply 7):

BA11 has already been retimed from Winter 2013 to allow a CGK tag on.

Wow, I would be looking forward if they really tag the flights from SIN.  


User currently offlineBoysteve From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12685 times:

Lets consider facts, Indonesia is the fourth most populous country in the world with a growing economy. Over the next 20 years it will surely become on of the largest 10 economies in the world. Jakarta itself has a population of ~10 million with 28 million in the greater metropolitan area. I see it as inevitable that BA will return one day, it could be next year or it could be 10 years, but they will return.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12619 times:

UA has one B 747-400 staying overnight at HKG. Perhaps they should start HKG-CGK?

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9241 times:

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 7):
BA11 has already been retimed from Winter 2013 to allow a CGK tag on.

Wouldn't the layover accommodate that anyway?


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineManekS From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8882 times:

Interesting to hear that BA11/12 is being considered for the tag-on. Rumour has it the flight will be up-gauged to an A380 as more aircraft are delivered. If this were to happen, BA would be forced to cease Jakarta - like LH were - or to pick another flight for the tag - Kuala Lumpur perhaps?

User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6858 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7617 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 1):
I can't see BA coming to CGK, unless they really wanted to start KUL services and added a tag on.

CGK-KUL has KL & KU... And then MH is going to enter OW.
Somehow I'm thinking it might be possible for one of LHR-SIN to upgauge to 380 and the other to tag on CGK?

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 1):
LH leaving the market shows the pressures that are being experienced and even though demand is growing, yields will still be an issue for a few years to come.
Quoting mloew (Reply 3):
Well, after they shifted the FRA-SIN service to the A380, they moved the -CGK tag to the MUC-SIN flight (A343), but that was cancelled eventually.

FRA-CGK market is there, but LH decided it was more profitable to upgauge SIN to A380... MUC-CGK is nowhere near the size of FRA-CGK... hence it was axed. Passengers here prefers to go on LH or SQ to SIN, then switch to the A380 for SIN-FRA... thus negating the effect of the CGK tag on to the MUC flight.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 8):
I do wonder how Egypt Air would route their flight into Jakarta from CAI, and would the political condition in Egypt would allow this route to start soon? Personally for BA it is good news, although I would believe when they start the flights.

KUL if the dare... BKK if they don't want to take risks, SIN if they're mad.   



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5994 times:

Quoting changyou (Reply 2):
Rumor on SIN side has it that BA will operate LHR-SIN-CGKvv

That's quite interesting. I always though that BA had no problems filling up SIN as a terminator. Furthermore, BA has an interline agreement in place with Garuda for the SIN CGK SIN sectors.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5333 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5199 times:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 13):
Somehow I'm thinking it might be possible for one of LHR-SIN to upgauge to 380 and the other to tag on CGK?

The second flight already goes to SYD with the 77W.

Maybe a long awaited return to KUL extending to CGK?


User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 820 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5107 times:

I know BA have recently retimed their BKK flights so the schedule as announced wouldn't allow time for a CGK tag - but maybe instead of introducing a KUL flight [which I have nagging doubts about given that fellow OW member MS has 2x380s a day] they could revise their BKK schedule and extend to CGK.

User currently offlineSelseyBill From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2013, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5064 times:

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 7):
BA11 has already been retimed from Winter 2013 to allow a CGK tag on

Just curious. How would BA likely 'crew' this extension ?

Would a crew fly Day 1 LHR-SIN, Day 2 SIN-CGK-SIN, Day 3 SIN-LHR. or would they 'outstation'/ employ local crews in SIN ?

[Edited 2013-07-29 04:21:42]

User currently offlineZuluTime From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5064 times:

BA are indeed looking at extending BA11/12 from SIN to CGK. Their winter slot application at Heathrow showed this service as a LHR-SIN-CGK operation which was a bit of a give-away about their thinking.

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5579 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 17):
Would a crew fly Day 1 LHR-SIN, Day 2 SIN-CGK-SIN, Day 3 SIN-LHR

That's the most likely pattern...

...unless, could Mixed Fleet fly LHR-SIN-CGK as one duty? I'm 99% certain that Worldwide couldn't, but if MF can then that could be an attractive option given that it would save 2 nights hotel accommodation.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1738 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4890 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 19):
...unless, could Mixed Fleet fly LHR-SIN-CGK as one duty? I'm 99% certain that Worldwide couldn't, but if MF can then that could be an attractive option given that it would save 2 nights hotel accommodation.

A 12 hour duty plus a 2 hour layover then on for another 2 hour flight?? I think there are regulations that wouldn't allow that... 16 hours is a long time!



Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319-BA), OSL-LHR (319-BA), LHR-CPH (320-BA), VXO-BMA (S20-TF), ARN-CPH (738-SK), CPH-LHR (320-BA)
User currently offlineSelseyBill From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2013, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
I always though that BA had no problems filling up SIN as a terminator

Does anyone know if BA have any SIN-CGK traffic rights ?


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5579 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4002 times:

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 21):
Does anyone know if BA have any SIN-CGK traffic rights

I don't know what the actual UK-Indonesia bilateral says, but I would guess that they almost certainly do as it was a permitted stop-over on the Kangaroo Route.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):
A 12 hour duty plus a 2 hour layover then on for another 2 hour flight?? I think there are regulations that wouldn't allow that... 16 hours is a long time!

It would be nearer 18 hours, as LHR-SIN is about 14 hours. Obviously the crew can't be on their feet all this time, and need appropriate rest provisions, but ultimately whether they can work would be governed by their contract, and this is where it can get confusing.

To take an example, Qantas International crew could work this as one trip - but would be paid a FORTUNE for doing so



Worked Hard, Flew Right
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