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PIT Update Thread 27  
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3256 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 30281 times:

The previous thread is well over 200 replies
PIT Update Thread 26 (by PITrules Apr 18 2013 in Civil Aviation)

To start #27, here is the 1985 annual report from the old Allegheny County Dept of Aviation. It was quite a year for PIT, as they gained 4 new airlines, two of which were foreign. These days we are lucky to get one new airline every four years!

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0001-4.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0002-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0003-2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0004-2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0005-2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0006-2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0007-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0008-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0009-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0010-3.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0011-2.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0012-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0013-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0014-1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0015.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0016.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0017.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0018.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0019.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0020.jpg


FLYi
241 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3256 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 30307 times:

"Republic Airways expands Pittsburgh base"

"The crew base and maintenance facility has nearly doubled in the last year as Republic has taken on United Airlines (NYSE: UAL) Bombardier Q400 operations, going from about 250 to its present 500

"We think, at Pittsburgh, our maintenance presence will grow by another 50 percent,"

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...ands-pittsburgh-base.html?page=all



This is a good read for those that are following the mineral contracts at PIT:
http://www.ogj.com/articles/print/vo...dfq-provides-lessons-on-shale.html



FLYi
User currently offlineUSFlyer26 From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 29854 times:

An article and some good pictures of the inaugural American Eagle E175 flight from PIT-ORD.

Article: PIT_Welcomes_New_Aircraft_and_Flights_From_American_Airlines?utm_source=August+7%2C+2013&utm_campaign=4-18+news&utm_medium=socialshare" target="_blank">http://www.flypittsburgh.com/PIT_Wel...n=4-18+news&utm_medium=socialshare

Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pitairport/sets/72157634942224619/


User currently offlineUSFlyer26 From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 29839 times:

Crap...bad link to the article above. My bad.

http://www.flypittsburgh.com/PIT_Wel...and_Flights_From_American_Airlines


User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 29789 times:

I wonder if they'll consider other markets besides ORD. I wonder if MIA is on YX's radar. I'd like to see something other than 50-seaters on PIT-MIA


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinethreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 709 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 29751 times:

I hope the extra capacity on PIT-ORD will make AA more competitive to the West (SEA, in particular). UA had the best fares for the past 3 trips I've bought and I already have another UA trip booked later this year. Notably, UA is usually running larger planes (A319/320, 738, or E170) on PIT-ORD/DEN, although I have the misfortune of being on an E145 to DEN on my next trip.

When AA has been competitive, it is usually only inefficient DFW connections to SEA. WN and DL are barely trying to compete.

At least for one potential trip in October, AA is matching UA and even DL at just under $400, so maybe the new E75s are helping.


User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1606 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 29748 times:

The latest OAG thread has AA reducing PIT-DFW to 3 daily. Curious given their recent increase from 4 to 5 daily. Makes one wonder if this will correspond with a mainline flight somewhere else, perhaps MIA. I believe the AA Eagle contract (and thus restrictions on mainline flying) is still in place until the merger officially closes.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 5):
I have the misfortune of being on an E145 to DEN on my next trip.

That is just awful.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 29744 times:

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):
The latest OAG thread has AA reducing PIT-DFW to 3 daily. Curious given their recent increase from 4 to 5 daily. Makes one wonder if this will correspond with a mainline flight somewhere else, perhaps MIA. I believe the AA Eagle contract (and thus restrictions on mainline flying) is still in place until the merger officially closes.

PITLAX covers the loss of the DFW frequency. Dropping from four to three is a seasonal adjustment. I see no changes for MIA for awhile from here. AA has much bigger issues to fix here than equipment size to MIA.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1606 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 29705 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 7):
Dropping from four to three is a seasonal adjustment.

Dropping capacity by 40% from summer to winter is a seasonal adjustment? OK. AA ran four daily MD-80's last winter. With the general traffic growth and in particulary energy industry traffic I don't demand and yield issues being the reason here. But I don't work in the AA route planning department.

It will be interesting once these AA Eagle mainline cap issues are resolved post-merger.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3256 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 29683 times:

Apologies for the missing pics at the beginning of the thread. Looks like photobucket clamped down on their free bandwidth. Good news is allowable bandwidth is reset every month, so those pics and previous ones should be back online around the 15th.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 6):
The latest OAG thread has AA reducing PIT-DFW to 3 daily.
Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 7):

PITLAX covers the loss of the DFW frequency.
Quoting N670UW (Reply 8):
Dropping capacity by 40% from summer to winter is a seasonal adjustment? OK. AA ran four daily MD-80's last winter. With the general traffic growth and in particulary energy industry traffic I don't demand and yield issues being the reason here.

I enjoy Enilria's OAG threads as much as anyone, but I've learned to take much of it with a grain of salt, one reason being "filing errors".

AA's website still shows 4x daily into next year. I guess it's possible they may indeed reduce by another flight, but I'll believe it when it's reflected by www.aa.com



FLYi
User currently offlinetarmacphotos From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 385 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 29672 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 4):
I wonder if they'll consider other markets besides ORD. I wonder if MIA is on YX's radar. I'd like to see something other than 50-seaters on PIT-MIA

I would too. There are probably a lot of people who currently fly on US to MIA via CLT. Most of the loyal US customers here will probably switch to the NEW American post merger.


User currently offlinejetblue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 29452 times:

anyone know anything about the republic crew base here? how big is it and why did it stay post hub?


JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
User currently offlinekubus From Poland, joined Dec 2005, 183 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 29226 times:

So DL is downgrading LGA flights. After Labor Day holiday it is going to be only 5x CR7 and 1xCR9's. Last departure out of LGA is 6:20P instead of 7:58P. No more MD88 or E175s. I guess I'll switch back to US or try out United and Q400's out of EWR. The 6:20P is the killer for me
Way to mess up a good thing DL!


User currently offlinepit From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 29161 times:

Quoting kubus (Reply 12):
So DL is downgrading LGA flights. After Labor Day holiday it is going to be only 5x CR7 and 1xCR9's. Last departure out of LGA is 6:20P instead of 7:58P.

I believe that JFK is still 4 daily correct?

Anyone know when PIT-CDG ends. That will also end the 757 on PIT-JFK.


I took American Eagle into JFK yesterday. The flight crew was MIA based and there were 5 or 6 through customers on board that came from MIA. Is this flight bookable as a through flight?


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3256 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 29013 times:

Quoting kubus (Reply 12):
So DL is downgrading LGA flights. After Labor Day holiday it is going to be only 5x CR7 and 1xCR9's. Last departure out of LGA is 6:20P instead of 7:58P. No more MD88 or E175s. I guess I'll switch back to US or try out United and Q400's out of EWR. The 6:20P is the killer for me
Way to mess up a good thing DL!

I'm still seeing 7x daily, with some E175s mixed in. You're right however about the loss of mainline and the early last LGA departure, although the last flight from JFK leaves 45 min later. Looks like the fares came down about $100 or so, but still a market that could use some low fare competition.



FLYi
User currently offlinejetblue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 28881 times:

hey guys a couple PIT spotters and I have got together and created a Pittsburgh Facebook page.
The link is
https://www.facebook.com/steelcityspotters
and if you could check it out and like it that would be great! The more support the better as we feel that a page for photos of PIT would be good!



JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3256 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 28811 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 9):

I enjoy Enilria's OAG threads as much as anyone, but I've learned to take much of it with a grain of salt, one reason being "filing errors"

And that is exactly what happened:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA DFW-PIT SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4

So PIT-DFW remains unchanged at 4x daily MD80s for the Fall.

[Edited 2013-08-12 13:19:06]


FLYi
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3256 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 28511 times:

"Blocked US Airways-American merger could benefit Pittsburgh"

"There's concern that, in a combined US Airways-American Airlines, the work done at the US Airways maintenance facility at Pittsburgh International might move out of state. Of even more concern is the 200 or so jobs at the US Airways operations center, which opened to big fanfare five years ago in Moon Township."
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...ways-american-merger.html?page=all

Although I don't see this DoJ lawsuit being successful.



FLYi
User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 28439 times:

Neither do I...

How could a stalling of this merger benefit Pittsburgh? So they keep a measly 600 jobs at an OCC that, IMO, really had no point of being in PIT to begin with.

In terms of airline service, US isn't adding squat anytime soon. DL added weekly/seasonal (??) MCO and a few Caribbean destinations recently along with the potential of PIT-CUN pending FAA approval. AA added LAX, and UA is resuming daily PIT-LAX service to remain competitive from what I understand. Within the last year or so, WN added DEN, BNA, and HOU. Do they think that these airlines will go into retreat mode if this merger goes through? I don't see it happening. With the PIT market in general growing and poised for more growth, a merged US/AA could be in a good position regarding their PIT ops.

Frankly, I don't understand why PA would be against this. Both PHL and PIT can definitely gain far more out of this than they'd lose. The PHL hub isn't going anywhere; shifting all the connecting traffic through JFK would be suicide. They'd be directly up against DL and B6! Plus, there is some high-yielding non-leisure O&D traffic at PHL and a lot of it. PHL would handle whatever connecting traffic goes through JFK, while JFK would be a large domestic/int'l O&D market for AA.



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3256 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 28357 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 18):
How could a stalling of this merger benefit Pittsburgh? So they keep a measly 600 jobs at an OCC that, IMO, really had no point of being in PIT to begin with.

600 good jobs is hardly something to sneeze at, plus remember there are another 1000 or so at the maintenance base. And why can't an OCC be in PIT? Just because a city is not a hub does not mean it can't be the location of an OCC. That can even be said of a corporate headquarters.

Anyway, air service not being an issue so PIT very much comes out a loser (job losses) if this merger goes through.
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...ld-cost-jobs-in-pittsburgh-699196/



FLYi
User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 28196 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 19):
600 good jobs is hardly something to sneeze at, plus remember there are another 1000 or so at the maintenance base. And why can't an OCC be in PIT? Just because a city is not a hub does not mean it can't be the location of an OCC. That can even be said of a corporate headquarters.

I think I'd be more concerned if the maintenance base were to close, but it is a good point that 600 jobs lost is 600 jobs lost. Speaking of HQs and hub/non-hub, that was the case with USAir in the 1980s-1990s. DCA was always a focus city, weren't they? Yet, the main hubs were PIT, PHL, CLT.

FL also comes to mind. ATL and BWI were their main hubs, while HQ MCO was a focus city...

So I guess that is a good point.

I still doubt that AA would move their DFW facility to PIT (it would be cool if they did, but I think it's unlikely). A drop of 600 jobs would suck, don't get me wrong. I still see the new AA maintaining (if not adding to) their 60-some daily flights they'd have post-merger.

Hopefully they'll come to some agreement. If this merger goes through, and if PIT does lose out considerably both in terms of jobs and flights lost, then I'll gladly partake in some A330-sized crow...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3256 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 27744 times:

"Palmer airport's status soars"
http://triblive.com/news/westmorelan...passengers-authority#axzz2cEGAvc3n

219th busiest in the nation, on par with ERI. Not too shabby for what was primarily a GA airport.



FLYi
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4898 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 27623 times:

I noticed in the annual report posted in the first post Republic Airlines flew here (news to me) and Northwest is gone. When did they leave?


Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3256 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 27421 times:

Late 1983 or 1984.


Looks like WN's seasonal PIT-PBI is getting the axe next year.



FLYi
User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 27375 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 23):
Looks like WN's seasonal PIT-PBI is getting the axe next year.

Do you (or does anyone) forsee DL possibly increasing frequencies to MCO to maybe 2x or 3x weekly at least? I do wish there were other options to Florida besides WN, especially with them cutting back after acquiring FL.



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
25 USPIT10L : April 30, 1984. I have a copy of the last NWO timetable with PIT service in it. Republic started service in late 1985.
26 PITrules : I think they could do year round 1x daily with an E175. That does not mean I think they will offer that; they have to weigh the costs/yields/demands
27 jetblue1058 : These Florida cut backs are screaming for an airline, JetBlue! Come on PIT, through together a quick incentives package for B6 to help them out with t
28 Post contains links and images PITrules : Rare bird heads up: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/WAL776 Operating ACY-PIT-LBE.
29 dumbell2424 : Nice! Does anyone know if 28L is still closed? If so, where should I go to spot, as I'm used to Coventry Health Care.
30 Post contains links PITrules : I agree, that is a very nice looking MD-83 although the airline's name seems a bit ambitious for a small MD-80 operator. As far as spotting locations
31 steeler83 : I've never heard of that airline. How long have they been around? Not to mention, interesting routing all around. ACY-PIT-LBE? Gorgeous bird, though.
32 dabpit : They do a lot of charter flight, mainly to Cuba.
33 Post contains links and images PITrules : ACY charters have been going on for decades to PIT/LBE/JST/YNG, or any combination thereof. Looks like the KC Chiefs are using a 767-400: http://flig
34 kkephart13 : Word on the street is that the end of the A Concourse has been reopened?? Can anybody confirm!?
35 N670UW : Yes 10R/28L is still closed.
36 PITrules : While I can't confirm or deny, I can't for the life of me figure out why they would reopen this considering most of C is vacant and needs to remain o
37 steeler83 : That's the last I heard as well. Is UA still on C or have they since moved on over to A? I'm thinking they're out of A now, which would leave AC (YYZ
38 USPIT10L : No, UA mainline is still in C, and will be until September. BTW, AC is handled by UA, so all their flights will be where UA is located. B6 would be t
39 Post contains links PITrules : "Airport shale drilling takes patience" http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...le-drilling-takes-patience-700649/
40 Post contains links and images PITrules : Correction on this, now looks like it will be Saturday only starting Mar 8. "Consol unveils airport drilling plan" http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsbu
41 jetblue1058 : The 1X daily LAX AA flight starts today. I check the loads and they weren't pretty at all. I believe only around 45 seats were taken. Hopefully this i
42 USPIT10L : Don't forget AA loaded the LAX flights with full expectation that the merger would be smooth sailing. Bookings should improve once US gets to codesha
43 PITrules : Next week's loads look much better; in addition fares in PIT seem to be between $50-$300 more than in IND/CMH/RDU (other new AA LAX markets), dependi
44 kubus : So it just happen that out of 16 regular super commuters, 11 took the 6:30A flight on Monday to LGA. We had a little chat and it looks like DL is goin
45 PITrules : Looks like US Airways will be offering LGA-PIT for only $112 ow during the Fall. That's the fare level when JetBlue was in the market. Last flight le
46 jetblue1058 : When JetBlue was in the market fares were 60 bucks OW. Its ashame B6 didnt really market the low fares to the biggest US city or else people like you
47 GSP psgr : Am I the only one who's more than a little envious that AUS (a metro area with 600,000-900,000 fewer people) will now have a daily BA nonstop on a 787
48 Post contains images point2point : Actually, the metro area of Austin is more near 2M, and is growing rapidly, much quicker than Pittsburgh, Cleveland, St. Louis, and a lot of these ot
49 Post contains links PITrules : IIRC $60 one way was fare specials, off peak days, etc. Fares were often regularly above that. The real shame is B6 didn't increase r/t fares to abou
50 GSP psgr : I hope so, though I'm a bit skeptical. When BA/AA got immunity across the Atlantic, it was much rumored that AA would be sending a horde of 757s from
51 steeler83 : So I take it the first flights will be between PIT and PHF as well as to EWR? In any event, I am somewhat surprised by BA's launch of AUS-LHR. Sure it
52 Cush : Don't be too sure about People Express. I read a news article on another thread today about laying off most employees. I'd expect the doors to shut in
53 silentbob : Eds and meds are the tech bubble of new millennium. Doubly so, when much of it is being financed by government spending and you have a lot of politic
54 PITrules : I think we are pretty fortunate to have service to CDG specifically, as long as more than half the pax are connecting onwards. CDG has the largest ne
55 GSP psgr : I actually think Pittsburgh has one of the most diversified balances of industries out there. While Education and Healthcare are undeniably large, th
56 Post contains links PITrules : Speaking of Pittsburgh, Eds & Meds, technology, and the airport here is a neat story: "Rep. Bill Shuster, a Republican from Altoona, made a 33-mil
57 Cush : I have a question to anyone who is familiar with the Latrobe Airport area. I have flown out of the airport a number of times so far, and my biggest is
58 jetblue1058 : If PIT was to try and get BA or some form of LHR service, Wouldn't the city and some businesses need to sign business contracts that say all Oversees
59 Cush : My two cents would be BA with a 787 or 767. I couldn't see Virgin making the leap. If it ever did happen, I would see the route as an AA 757. The onl
60 kpitrrat : As of now the wall is gone, the moving walkways are all functioning to the end, and they are even listing Arrivals/Departures on the boards in the ex
61 steeler83 : FRA may be the best airport, but O&D was artificially inflated when US was hubbed there in addition to the Bayer presence. Speaking of which, O&a
62 Post contains links PITrules : "Pittsburgh International Airport opens up 10 additional gates" http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/4...port-gates-concourse#axzz2eqIBMM6H Still not un
63 Post contains links and images kkephart13 : I will say, i was just recently at PIT, and the open end of A looks awesome. Granted there is no concessions, but all the display boards are on, movin
64 USPIT10L : Thanks. Working the ticket counter, I am loathe to go over to the other side, most of the time anyway! Looks like the end of A hasn't changed a bit s
65 MasseyBrown : Don't give up; even without a merger, I think US and AA will operate in the future as closely allied as possible. Just as CO was all but frozen out o
66 USPIT10L : I agree. But LHRPIT becomes far, far more likely with a merger than just a US switch to OW. Without the merger, AA is still stuck as an Eagle station
67 PITrules : Why is PIT stuck as an Eagle station? If AA determines PIT should be a mainline station, then what is stopping them from doing so? Regardless I don't
68 MasseyBrown : True, it's more likely with a merger; but even without, there is precedent for US joining the AA-BA TATL joint venture, in which case PIT-LHR gets ev
69 silentbob : Both US and AA have focused more and more on driving traffic through their hubs over the last couple years and neither party has a connecting operati
70 tarmacphotos : Here is the latest statement from People's: "Over the past few months, we’ve been hearing a lot of questions about when we’re taking off and where
71 tooluther : Twitter reporting that DL's PIT-Cancun service has regulatory green light... @PITairport We're going to Cancun! @Delta has received approval from USDO
72 USPIT10L : There is a significant traffic base with US here. I see US elites all the time on UA, particurly through LAX and DEN. There is enough O&D on PITL
73 Flaps : I see US has FINALLY upgraded their flight 787 (the 1700 CLT-PIT) to an A321 from the 734. For close to 30 years now, going back to PI days I have use
74 Post contains links PITrules : PIT-NAS on the other hand looks to be severely cut back according to www.delta.com It's only showing 3 weeks of operation starting Dec 21, a whopping
75 Post contains images YQBexYHZBGM : Visiting "the Mouse," I thought that was my trademarked expression! Anyhow, glad to see A Concourse at PIT fully reopened. I imagine that involved a
76 PITrules : The reason given by the ACAA is that so recently merged airlines (WN/FL and CO/UA) can have their consolidated operations on one concourse. That does
77 steeler83 : According to Faremeasure.com, there's over 500 pax O&D per day each way. That's a significant jump even from a couple of years ago. It's higher t
78 PITrules : We've already discussed it earlier in the thread, but at issue in PIT is over 1,500 good jobs at the SOC and mx base. Because CLE already has 3x dail
79 jetblue1058 : One of the major key airlines against the DCA situation is Jetblue. They want slots and they want new routes. I heard from a B6 employee at PIT that i
80 steeler83 : Ah, right. Forgive me; I've been a little crazy with work and other personal things going on in my life at the moment. And yeah, no need to reopen th
81 jetblue1058 : Hey guys, Ive only been on this forum for a little under 6 months and as my name suggests im a diehard jetblue fan. I know that this was a while ago b
82 PITrules : From PIT's Facebook page: "Member airlines in the Trans-Atlantic Joint Venture are meeting @PITAirport today to determine trans-Atlantic flights for 2
83 pliersinsight : I was thinking that if Shell opens the cracker facility we would see a AMS flight. They could call it the Marrakesh Express for the tourist market...
84 tooluther : I think you slightly read into the post. I did not read it that the entire JV was meeting in Pittsburgh, just that the JV reps were meeting the airpo
85 PITrules : Re-reading the quote, I think you are correct. Regarding Royal Dutch Shell and their future petrochemical plant, I don't think it will amount to much
86 dumbell2424 : Anyone think Stillers will upgauge from the 762 for this weekends trip? Would love to spot some rare heavy metal.[Edited 2013-09-24 11:39:14]
87 Post contains images pit :
88 steeler83 : Same thinking from this corner. If AA does not launch PIT-LHR even if the merger goes through, does anyone suppose DL or VS might launch PIT-LHR? Or
89 jetblue1058 : thanks PIT! That limits it down to 2 E190s, Either N179JB, "Come Fly With Blue" or N192JB "Yes, I'm A Natural Blue" Do either of these names ring a b
90 pit : What information are you looking for? The tail of the first A/C to arrive? Looking through pictures, it was Blue Getaways, tail N216JB[Edited 2013-09
91 kpitrrat : Virgin is doing the charter so your options are A340 or 744. Believe they also have some A330's but I wouldn't imagine they would use that. Anyone he
92 tarmacphotos : Steelers are departing Thursday evening for London. The Vikings used Virgin's A346, so I imagine the Steelers will do the same. There are also two fan
93 kpitrrat : Awesome! Thanks for the info!
94 jetblue1058 : Anyone know the departure time for Virgin? Also thanks for the help guys! Means a lot to know what bird opened my favorite airlines service to PIT.
95 Post contains links tarmacphotos : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/V...5/history/20130926/1225Z/EGLL/KPIT Here is the Virgin heavy. Due in to PIT at 1549 local.
96 Post contains links and images PITrules : Type is not available yet on Flightaware, however Flytecomm is showing the expected A346 (a first for PIT? I'll have to do some research). View Large
97 Post contains links PITrules : Here is the US positioning flight: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE9070 And its flight to London: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE9098 Int
98 kpitrrat : Flightaware mobile says A346 due in 3:44 but I'd say it will be closer to 3:30.
99 Post contains links and images dumbell2424 : The reg of the Virgin is G-VWIN http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GVWIN View Large View MediumPhoto © Mark H Also looks to be some pretty good weath
100 Post contains images steeler83 : Considering it has "Win" in the reg, could that be a good thing??? Aw man... I'm out here near PHL and I'm missing the action!
101 Post contains links and images PITrules : Vodka Burner heads up: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VDA4911 View Large View MediumPhoto © Eduard Brantjes Also a Falcon Air Express MD-83: http
102 Flaps : Any word on who is doing the ground handling on that Il76? Might be a great time for me to call in some favors.
103 tarmacphotos : I would bet its parking at Atlantic.
104 Post contains links dumbell2424 : Looks like the Virgin is too. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/V...5/history/20130926/2330Z/KPIT/EGKK
105 jetblue1058 : Saw the VS! loved it! Took off 10C at around 7:50! Now if only this would be actual service! still cool to see 3 birds doing transatlantic flights ton
106 Oak522 : Does NOBODY have an indulgent photo of the VS A346 departing PIT with the Stillers????
107 tarmacphotos : Here it is arriving: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=221503518008915&set=a.221503471342253.1073741831.207362309423036&type=1&theat
108 Post contains images steeler83 : I just clicked on that link and liked it. Seriously. Somebody had to have pics of that bird! How often do you see an A346 in PIT?
109 dumbell2424 : I was at Coventry with fingers crossed for a 28L arrival (perhaps it's time to invest in a scanner), but it landed 28R, I have some distance pics, bu
110 Post contains links PITrules : The Il-76 is now flight planned to depart PIT this evening nonstop to Bodø, Norway (BOO). http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VDA4930 Interesting flig
111 Post contains images tarmacphotos : More here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.221755241317076.1073741832.207362309423036&type=3 It was transporting a large crane I was to
112 pliersinsight : Hm...IL-76... I thought I heard engines that sounded like ball bearings grinding up in a insinkerator garbage disposal yesterday......that must have b
113 tarmacphotos : This was a brand new IL-76. It had fan engines, not the old turbo jets. An F-18 came in to AGC yesterday, so perhaps thats what you heard.
114 kubus : Saw the Virgin as it took off 10C this am as flight VS966. Had to wait for it since it pushed blocking our taxi and of course it caused us to miss the
115 Post contains links PITrules : Il-76 production ended about 15 years ago, so this was not a new aircraft. It was re-engined however. Production on new airframes is planned to resume
116 Post contains links PITrules : Some corporate jet activity though... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SHE904
117 Post contains links PITrules : Frontier Airlines will be resuming their seasonal scheduled flights to CUN and PUJ in 2014, starting in May. www.flyfrontier.com As of now, DL still h
118 Post contains links dumbell2424 : http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...urgh-arnold-palmer-airport-706831/ Twice daily bus service from downtown Pittsburgh to LBE. Interesting.
119 Flytravel : I was kind of hoping for NK on LBE-PHL. Any chance? it appears NK though is focusing more on Sunbelt routes, ie DFW Another one maybe better is Fronti
120 Post contains links and images PITrules : I think F9 doing a PIT-DEN/TTN service is a real possibility. The TTN service being especially useful considering PIT lost low fare service to both P
121 steeler83 : Agreed. PIT is not New York, Chicago, or Atlanta for that regard. The traffic is not there that could support both CDG and AMS. I also agree that AA
122 pliersinsight : I stated on other threads before due to the cracker plant and other endeavors of Shell don't count out KLM. As usual, I got the "no way" treatment fr
123 jfk69 : Just opened the thread for the first time in a while. I was actually on the inaugural flight and I looked back into my flight memory account and you
124 PITrules : Sorrry, but it most definitely is as it would be the same alliance providing the same connections over the same traffic flows to that part of the wor
125 jetblue1058 : Was at the airport Friday, And UA switched the ops to A finally! Would be great to get another airline to fly across the pond. What would be great is
126 USPIT10L : Yes, with headaches aplenty, I can assure you! Some of the gates have spritzy PA mics, A18 and A20 have no computers or PA systems on them....the iss
127 tooluther : I had the opportunity to hear the whole story (and it is a long one) about how the CDG flight came to be from some Allegheny Conference officials a c
128 PITrules : I think it is too erratic as 3-4x weekly is no good for the business traveler. LHR with an AA 757 could easily be year round, daily in the summer and
129 USPIT10L : AA seems to like doing things daily, period. The LAX flight is daily, even Saturday, while UA runs every day except Saturday.
130 jetblue1058 : this has probably been asked before but what are the top 10 markets served from PIT? any room for growth or new airlines on the top10 routes?
131 MasseyBrown : For the year ending June 30, 2013 City Pax in thousands ATL 430 CLT 341 ORD 262 MDW 196 PHL 192 MCO 186 LGA 180 DFW 163 BOS 154 IAH 154
132 Post contains links PITrules : Frontier is now doing some of the LBE-ACY charters: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/RPA5215 "Plans for upgrades at Pittsburgh International Airport
133 pliersinsight : That I agree with completely. All of this is clearly 50% conspeculation I would venture a guess that most of that traffic is because those airports a
134 Post contains links PITrules : UPMC's new toy: http://www.post-gazette.com/frontpag...orporate-flag/stories/201310250134
135 Flytravel : I was looking more at LBE, and noticed that NK doesn't fly LBE-TPA or LBE-RSW. Would there be potential for F9 to pick up un-served routes from LBE,
136 Post contains images point2point : Okay, if we're doing F9 route predictions from LBE, of course here's my on the table........ DEN - of course TTN - hmmmm... I hesitate here..... mayb
137 PITrules : Delta firmed up their trans-Atlantic schedules, and PIT-CDG is indeed increased to daily as of this time. Lets hope that remains the case. It does res
138 MasseyBrown : Is flying to TTN a useful substitute for Pittsburgh folks bound for Philadelphia? Or does TTN add enough ground time that you might as well drive and
139 jetblue1058 : F9 would be a hit for TTN and MDW service from here. Both big markets from PIT, many people would travel to. I think the high costs to operate flights
140 Post contains images steeler83 : I guess an appropriate question would be: Of the PHL-bound O&D traffic, how much of it is going to the New Jersey suburbs? Of course, if there wa
141 kubus : As much bashing I did about DL changing the last departure from LGA to 6P and the CR7 downgrade... well I do have to say something nice. Tonight's fli
142 kkephart13 : Did this flight get the axe before it began? I dont see it bookable at all....
143 Post contains links PITrules : Allegiant Air adds 2x weekly flights from CKB to SFD Nov. 14. So they will offer service from northwest of Pittsburgh (YNG) and now southwest. No doub
144 Post contains links PITrules : "Delta bolsters Pittsburgh-to-Paris service" http://www.post-gazette.com/business...Paris-service/stories/201311020037 Not quite daily, but at least t
145 Cush : I like everyone's input on potential new NK flights or carriers out of LBE. Let me give my two cents please... - NK will remain the only carrier at LB
146 Flaps : I have to agree with Cush above. I have been an ardent supporter of LBE going all the way back to the days of Cumberland Airlines and Vee-Neal. I have
147 PITrules : Spirit and Allegiant are two different business models. The main ramp is plenty large to increase the number of stands. I've seen 3 737s parked at the
148 pliersinsight : That's a lot of airplane when you have zero employees. Does it just fly itself around on AP ?
149 bjorn14 : Anybody see an airline serving both PIT and LBE?
150 PITrules : Lol; I feel Pittsburgh is definitely better off with UPMC than without, but that was a stupid argument they tried to make. Nope not on a scheduled ba
151 Post contains links pit : http://www.flypittsburgh.com/PIT_Pas...enger_Traffic_Report_For_Sept_2013 I think the ACAA could make the apocalypse look like a good thing. They feed
152 Post contains images PITrules : They really are spinmeisters. Just the other day on their Facebook page they mentioned how much lower fares are now than 13 years ago. I thought to m
153 pit : I think the decline in traffic is due to all the mergers. This is causing the average airfare to go up. Pittsburghers would rather drive then shell o
154 Post contains links PITrules : I fear you are correct regarding the MX base. I don't see why AA wants or needs it at all. They have several larger and more modern facilities elsewh
155 pliersinsight : Not ALL Pittsburghers.....I fly to Filthadelphia, DCA and LGA over driving, even thought it costs a bit more. The lessened fatigue adds value to shor
156 AaronPGH : Hi guys, long time lurker here....for years. For some reason I felt like joining up today and posting! I just wanted to share personal experiences her
157 steeler83 : Are you by any chance on Skyscraperpage? For some reason your username looks very familiar... Is your avatar in that forum some guy holding a glass o
158 Flytravel : The more distant and smaller markets like IND that get TTN while PIT isn't added, the less that I think PIT is on the radar. I think it's in the "rul
159 PITrules : Why would BOS be ruled out? I think that would be a great route for TTN. Although connections might not currently be the objective of the TTN focus c
160 Post contains links Flytravel : It starts at under $50 until December and then it drastically starts at $159 one-way for all days forward in January, likely as F9 considers an ILG-I
161 steeler83 : Pittsburgh to Downingtown is around 5 hours. Making it to Philadelphia in 6 hours means nobody is on the Schuylkill Expressway... If Frontier offered
162 PITrules : That's a rather weird stance for the airline to take; NJ to Boston is a hellish drive. But I'm glad to see they at least "consider it". With that in
163 Flytravel : I agree. I think BOS and PIT, if it does cross their mind in their future and it has to since almost now all major markets within 300-1000 miles are
164 Post contains links PITrules : Fwiw, which isn't much: "Another startup airline trying to get off the ground has its sights set on Pittsburgh. Jacksonville, Fla.-based City Link Air
165 steeler83 : So it's basically a regional airline. Given that they want to use 50-seat regional jets, which other regional affiliates of the legacy carriers are t
166 AaronPGH : Yes, that's me.
167 MasseyBrown : With some combination of low purchase price and high yields, the 50-seaters can still make money - UA is doing it in CLE. It's hard to find that comb
168 Post contains links PITrules : I'm not so optimistic that such a plan would work. Look at all the other self branded regional jet operations that have failed. -Mesa's "Go!" is bein
169 steeler83 : Yinz both make good points, but I have a question. What is the chance of City Link possibly interlining with a legacy? I don't see flying nothing but
170 USFlyer26 : Not me. I did PHL-MCI in 1D on a CRJ a few months ago. Kill me. Honestly, as a Chairman on US, I'd rather connect in PHL or CLT and fly first class f
171 boeingkid : So with the almost done merger of AA/US where will that leave PIT? Will PIT survive or will it go away? We all know that the SOC is gone (Just saw a p
172 Post contains links and images steeler83 : If that's the case, it makes no sense whatsoever to me... Yeah, for the record, I'm not a big fan of small regional jets. I do like the E70s and E75s
173 PITrules : "Allegheny County Executive Rich Fitzgerald and Brad Penrod, president of the county's airport authority, said the deal guarantees the number of fligh
174 Post contains links dumbell2424 : Just checked today's PIT-LAX on ExpertFlyer: 52 in Coach, 3 in First. Tomorrow's PIT-LAX has 52 in Coach, 8 in First. Not looking too great. FWIW tom
175 steeler83 : Ugh, I wonder why AA is struggling to fill its planes. Those loads are pathetic for a route that has quite a bit of demand on it.
176 Post contains links PITrules : I am not familiar with ExpertFlyer. Do they show total seats sold, or just seat selections made? Some people buy tickets but don't select their seat
177 kkephart13 : (Not sure if this is mentioned) DL Will resume its Saturday only service from PIT-MCO on 12-21, however downgrading it to a CR9. Furthermore, get the
178 Post contains links PITrules : Some more great news in the economic development front. Being a new US headquarters city for a large global foreign company can only be a good thing.
179 steeler83 : I'm curious about that as well, as I have no idea of that would mean anything in that regard. US does operate 10 gates (IIRC) in B, so theoretically,
180 dumbell2424 : Agreed. There's no perfect means of finding out other than an insider. But if you are counting seat maps, what ExpertFlyer does is differentiate betw
181 PITrules : Cool, thanks for the info. As far as the flight's less than optimal departure time, someone's in agreement..., the flight now departs at 5pm. Still w
182 Post contains links tarmacphotos : Just in Time for Holiday Travel: Bottega dei Sapori Now Open at AIRMALL® at Pittsburgh International Airport: http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/jus...
183 Post contains links PITrules : "Chevron's plans for regional headquarters advance with Moon OK" http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/5...ors-chevron-building#axzz2mZx3zLzZ An interest
184 Post contains links PITrules : Regarding the Shell news I just posted, they have eliminated a competing project in Louisiana today, so the prospects of the Pittsburgh cracker moving
185 steeler83 : That would be sweet if PA got both the Cracker AND the Boeing plant! I highly doubt we'll get Boeing though for reasons you've already posted. If the
186 Post contains images MasseyBrown : My bet is that eventually Pennsylvania will get the cracker, but it may be delayed a few years. There is a glut of product and falling prices at the m
187 Post contains links PITrules : One of the worst editorials I've ever read in the T-R: http://triblive.com/opinion/colinmcn...g-state-pennsylvania#axzz2mrAcUfWZ Tax breaks are not 's
188 Post contains links and images dumbell2424 : Didn't know the Blue Jackets had their own plane...doesn't look like they'll play the Pens again here again this season. http://flightaware.com/live/f
189 Post contains links PITrules : Some more insight into PA's B777-X bid: http://www.post-gazette.com/news/nat...r-new-factory/stories/201312100080
190 Post contains images MasseyBrown : According to enilria's weekly post DL has cut PIT-CDG to 5 flights per week from daily for the summer. Sorry to see this. It seems early for them to d
191 steeler83 : The one representative from SC is a bit misinformed. Pennsylvania DOES have an ocean port. I guess he's never been to Philadelphia. Granted it's not
192 PITrules : The unfortunate news is that it is one less frequency than they initially told us (6x weekly). The good news is it is not a reduction from last year.
193 Flaps : Pennsylvania's labor history and market makes it a complete non-starter for any major manufacturing project like the 777X. Probably any other issue co
194 finnishway : Could we see BA returning to PIT when US joins oneworld and merger with AA is done? I think BA could start Pittsburgh with B787 like they are planning
195 MasseyBrown : Ah, thanks for the amplification - it's only half as bad as I thought.
196 Post contains links PITrules : This topic comes up from time to time; the consensus seems to be AA with a 757 would be the most likely service. As far as the possibility of BA and
197 Flaps : Im hoping to see the return of BA but I fear that it would be at the expense of the DL CDG flight. There is still a large US FF base in and around PIT
198 jetblue1058 : If losing a 757-200 flight to CDG on DL is what it takes if BA comes, who isnt for it on this page? ha, just a thought.
199 Cush : No offense, but I would rather connect in EWR, PHL, JFK, IAD to a widebody than suffer on a cramped 757 for a trans-atlantic flight. Just a few notes.
200 Post contains links PITrules : Another month, another hefty decline in passengers: http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...port-passenger-traffic-down-4.html
201 Post contains links PITrules : "Southwest Airlines said it would be expanding its service between Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport and Pittsburgh International Airpo
202 kkephart13 : Looking at Southwest.com, when WN Begins PIT-ATL, on sundays there will be 4 daily on WN/FL, Every other day 3 on WN/FL. Currently its at 3 FL.
203 PITrules : Thanks; it seems a bit odd to have a higher frequency on a Saturday than on weekdays in a key business market so I wonder if it has more to do with a
204 PITingres : I've been on DL's 752 PIT--CDG, several times, in Y, and it's no more cramped than any other airplane. I had a lot more room than say NZ's LAX--AKL f
205 Post contains links AaronPGH : Tech firm CSC is opening a Pittsburgh office in the strip, with plans to eventually ramp up to 500 employees. Looks like they've got offices scattered
206 Post contains links PITrules : More great news for the city. The best part of the article: "CSC, who was represented by Jones Lang LaSalle, said it researched 400 cities throughout
207 Post contains links PITrules : "Pennsylvania eliminated from Boeing 777X bidding, state says" http://triblive.com/business/busines...-74/boeing-state-777#axzz2o58mDJfx Not a surpris
208 tarmacphotos : AWE777 and AWE776 upgauge to a 762 today from PHL. At first I thought it was for positioning a Steelers charter, but they are using it on the return f
209 Post contains links tooluther : DL's PUJ & NAS saturday only service started today (well, all three weeks of it or whatever limited run it ended up being). I'm not sure what the
210 tarmacphotos : Thats nice the NAS flight ended up being an E175. I thought it was initially advertised as a CRJ7.
211 Post contains links dumbell2424 : http://www.post-gazette.com/local/ea...tes-successes/stories/201312270010
212 Post contains links PITrules : Some nice New York diversions starting to head our way, including an AA 773 from GRU. Others include B6 A321 and A320, NK 320 http://flightaware.com/l
213 tooluther : I wonder if they'll take the opportunity to process the GRU flight through customs so that can avoid the process in JFK...it's money making season at
214 GSP psgr : Any thoughts as to whether we'll see an additional new route this year? I'm switching my business over to Delta from United this year, so I'd love to
215 Post contains links PITrules : AA has another 777 ferrying into PIT this evening, to take over for the 773. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9609 Based on the flight trackers,
216 pit : The diversion list for PIT today (1/3/14). Not much really.. Divert Airport Date Origin Sched Destin Flight ID ON OFF Ground Time (H:MM) A/C Type Dive
217 Post contains links PITrules : Probably the best spotting day since the G-20 actually. Two 777s and a Hawaiian A332. Not to mention all the other regional diversions and positionin
218 Post contains images jetblue1058 : And the most important the new JetBlue A321. Did anyone get pics?
219 Post contains images kpitrrat :
220 PITrules : Do you have any of HA or AA by chance? On another note, PIT-DFW will be going back up to 5x daily.[Edited 2014-01-04 17:26:37]
221 steeler83 : Will that be an Eagle flight, or won't it matter since they're going through with the merger?
222 PITrules : It will be 5 MD-80s.
223 Post contains images steeler83 : So that, plus the 738 to LAX? Yep, I take it it won't matter...
224 Post contains images kpitrrat :
225 Post contains images kpitrrat :
226 kpitrrat : Sorry for the poor quality of the photos, all I had was my phone. 1st one of the AA plane was when it was refueling after it arrived, they initially d
227 Post contains links dumbell2424 : I guess a DL 752 isn't all that special, but diverting here from MEX-JFK. Sucks to take off 3 hours late and then have to divert. http://flightaware.c
228 Post contains images krod031 : Sorry its a little late, and not best of pictures. But taken from the employee lot on Diversion Day at PIT
229 PITrules : Thanks for sharing; its nice to see the HA A330 at PIT.
230 steeler83 : great pic, even if the quality isn't that great, who cares?
231 dabpit : They did off load the passengers.
232 Post contains links PITrules : Traffic down another 5.2% http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...10/traffic-dips-at-pittsburgh.html US CBP will install two Global Entry kiosks http:/
233 steeler83 : Regarding the potential for increased service to those destinations not served by non-stop service, I wonder which ones would be most likely to come
234 PITrules : But consider that the S.F. Bay area has more than double the O&D of SEA or SAN, yet we only have 3 weekly flights to SFO this time of year. I thi
235 Post contains links tarmacphotos : Nice diversion today at PIT: Saudi 777 http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...1/history/20140111/1915Z/KPIT/CYYZ
236 Post contains images kpitrrat : Guess this was from the mess up at YYZ. Parked at C-59. I need to get myself more space for pics on here lol These last couple weeks have been pretty
237 JetBlue1058 : https://www.facebook.com/steelcityspotters this page has some more pictures of saudi here yesterday, incase any of you were wandering. -adam
238 Post contains links PITrules : LBE seeking additional airlines and destinations: "Last year about 250,000 passengers flew on the airport's lone commercial carrier, Spirit Airlines.
239 Post contains links and images PITrules : Here's another pic of the AA 773 and HA A332 diversions linked from ACAA's twitter: http://ow.ly/i/4ccPi/original Also some good pics in the ACAA's ne
240 Cush : I still get a feeling of envy when I see all those aircraft from the G-20 back in 2009. I left my airline career behind in spring/summer of 2009 to ge
241 Post contains links PITrules : I didn't feel there was lack of opportunities to get ground shots. In fact, of the ones I took (still up in reply #19 in the link below) I feel the r
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