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NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air  
User currently offlineairdfw From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 201 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10689 times:

I am sorry if it has been covered before but I did not find any on search.

NPR is reporting Boeing is monitoring 787 while on air to uncover any potential issues. Is this only for 787 or do they did for 777 before? How does the communication work? Satellite?

http://www.npr.org/2013/08/08/209817...-boeing-is-watching-its-every-move

"Boeing Vice President Mike Fleming, is giving a rare tour of the facility. He points to two giant maps showing the location each 787 currently in flight. The maps also show the planes speed and altitude.

But there is much more. Boeing has delivered about 70 Dreamliners so far. Equipped with highly sophisticated on-board monitoring systems, the planes send back massive amounts of information while in the air. Computer software sifts thru the data and anomalies or potential problems pop up in yellow or red on giant computer screens."

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinejonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10693 times:

Is this the equivalent of what Airbus has with Airman?

User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10447 times:

It's like having real-time black box data! It seems like airlines could benefit from this type of service by using the system across their fleets.

User currently offlinea380787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2013, 1087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10351 times:

I'm all in favor of this. The ground systems could alert the plane if it detects any issues or potential stalling.

As long as the government doesn't intrude Boeing and use it as a surveillance tool against foreign flag carriers (or worse, 787s for foreign heads of state)


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3845 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10028 times:

Airlines have been able to monitor their aircrafts in real time for years through data sent by the maintenance computer through ACARS.

The 787, I'm guessing, takes it to the next level with a lot more data being gathered from many more systems than its predecessors, and that data is routed to Boeing as well as the airline.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently onlineflyglobal From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 604 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9957 times:

Just for comparison with car industrie: since a few years, we are monitoring our test cars (e.g. monitoring in US or Europe while the car e.g. makes in country validation in India, or is driven through the death valley).

Two levels of data transmission here:
Level one is online - a number of key measurements - some 50 measurements online with a certain sample rate).
Level 2 is after each test day - a full dataset with some 100 monitoring data in a higher density is transmitted via WLAN/ LAN/ Datafile upload.

The 1 is for quick analysis and general updates, the level 2 is for specific driving situation updates and software behave.

In the future, almost all vehicles will have internet connection and can be potentially monitored.
The plan is in a good sense - improve service support and assistamce, as well as any emergeny support.

So far the NSA didn't request a datalink by the way.   (to my knowledge)

regards

Flyglobal


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9876 times:

Been discussed before a little Boeing AHM? (by Kun Apr 25 2010 in Tech Ops)


We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently onlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2589 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9427 times:

Quoting airdfw (Thread starter):
"Boeing Vice President Mike Fleming, is giving a rare tour of the facility. He points to two giant maps showing the location each 787 currently in flight. The maps also show the planes speed and altitude.

I'm sure you will find this technology also with many A.nutters . . .  



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9233 times:

Title and post confusing. "On Air" refers to tv/radio and then you mention NPR.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9182 times:

Can the QAR transmit data via the ACARS or does that have to be physically removed from the aircraft?

User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8549 times:

I flew my first 777 with AA on MIA-DFW years ago and was fortunate to be sitting next to an RJ pilot who was based at DFW. He told me that the 777 is constantly transmitting data about it's systems to the ops center and that the ops center might even know about a problem or "irregularity" before the crew!

I imagine this capability is not built into the older Boeings (744 / 757 / 767) though it might be in the 737NGs.


User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8245 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 10):
I flew my first 777 with AA on MIA-DFW years ago and was fortunate to be sitting next to an RJ pilot who was based at DFW. He told me that the 777 is constantly transmitting data about it's systems to the ops center and that the ops center might even know about a problem or "irregularity" before the crew!

True, the airline I worked for used the same data to find possible errors, and replacement parts were even ordered or put on standby so maintenance staff could quickly replace the particular part immediately after landing so keep turnaround times within the time limit.



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlinegeorgiaame From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8244 times:

Quoting a380787 (Reply 3):
As long as the government doesn't intrude Boeing and use it as a surveillance tool against foreign flag carriers (or worse, 787s for foreign heads of state)

Now why should we even suspect such a nefarious plot isn't already occurring? On a massive scale? Opps, looks like I just bought a one way ticket onto the secret no fly list...



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlinedergay From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8168 times:

Quoting airdfw (Thread starter):

NPR is reporting Boeing is monitoring 787 while on air to uncover any potential issues. Is this only for 787 or do they did for 777 before? How does the communication work? Satellite?

Hope the battery works in the comms pack.!      



Flown on A300,A310,A318,A319,A320,A321,A330,B707,B720,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,L382,L1011,C5,DC-3,DC8,
User currently offlineflyingcello From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8029 times:

Rolls Royce have a similar facility for monitoring all their engines in real time. They have 'as built' records of each engine, and use the real time data to identify faults or abnormalities mid-air. Using the 'as built' database, they can also dispatch components to the aircraft destination to address problems. All very impressive...

User currently offlinesprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1855 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7737 times:

Didn't AF 447 transmit a lot of data before/during the loss of control?

I really think this is not a news item, as it has been happening for a LOOOng time.

Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7421 times:

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 15):
I really think this is not a news item, as it has been happening for a LOOOng time.

Ah, but now that our geniuses in the U.S. media have found out about it - and they found out about it regarding the 787 - it's a "the 787 is so dangerous we need to monitor it every second from the ground" kind of story. But yes, if the "journalists" had bothered to educate themselves about the subject, they would have learned that this is nothing new.


User currently offlineflylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6629 times:

In 2006, while waiting at ZRH for an inbound UA 767 to arrive and turn for IAD I noted it was scheduled to arrive on time and depart three hours late. It went MX and we departed on a different 767 the next day. I met the pilots the next day and they explained that UA ops knew while the flight was inbound that there was something that required maintenance when the flight arrived and it turned out it was not immediately repairable.

Our Tech/Ops bretheren can enlightenen us but I think that satellite uplink of real time telemetry has been going on for some time.



...are we there yet?
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6466 times:

Quoting flylku (Reply 17):
In 2006, while waiting at ZRH for an inbound UA 767 to arrive and turn for IAD I noted it was scheduled to arrive on time and depart three hours late. It went MX and we departed on a different 767 the next day. I met the pilots the next day and they explained that UA ops knew while the flight was inbound that there was something that required maintenance when the flight arrived and it turned out it was not immediately repairable.

Our Tech/Ops bretheren can enlightenen us but I think that satellite uplink of real time telemetry has been going on for some time.

Yes, I would like some more "inside information" from those in the know. But, in this case, the inbound flight crew could have just used the radio to inform the maintenance folk.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1353 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5995 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 10):
He told me that the 777 is constantly transmitting data about it's systems to the ops center and that the ops center might even know about a problem or "irregularity" before the crew!
Quoting flyingcello (Reply 14):
Rolls Royce have a similar facility for monitoring all their engines in real time. They have 'as built' records of each engine, and use the real time data to identify faults or abnormalities mid-air. Using the 'as built' database, they can also dispatch components to the aircraft destination to address problems. All very impressive...

I've been told about this with Air New Zealand's 777-200s. Particularly with regards to engine vibrations, its apparently reasonably common for the people in maintenance operations to become aware of an issue before the flightcrew. Very clever tech.



First to fly on the Boeing 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE; NZ103, AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineMX757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 628 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5606 times:

Quoting flylku (Reply 17):
In 2006, while waiting at ZRH for an inbound UA 767 to arrive and turn for IAD I noted it was scheduled to arrive on time and depart three hours late. It went MX and we departed on a different 767 the next day. I met the pilots the next day and they explained that UA ops knew while the flight was inbound that there was something that required maintenance when the flight arrived and it turned out it was not immediately repairable.

Our Tech/Ops bretheren can enlightenen us but I think that satellite uplink of real time telemetry has been going on for some time.


The sUA fleet have electronic logbooks. The pilots type the discrepancy on the ACARS touch screen and then send it via VHF data link to the sUA maintenance computer network UNIMATIC.



Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5435 times:

SR (prior to their demise) wrote an article for ATW detailing how they monitored their MD-11 Fleet down
to items like crews "using too much reverse thrust upon landing." A little too much Big Brother for me.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5182 posts, RR: 33
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 4):

Airlines have been able to monitor their aircrafts in real time for years through data sent by the maintenance computer through ACARS.

The 787, I'm guessing, takes it to the next level with a lot more data being gathered from many more systems than its predecessors, and that data is routed to Boeing as well as the airline.

I think that's the main difference here. Real time monitoring of flights by the airlines has been going on for years, but now Boeing are also monitoring the data to help identify issues with the 787.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineSchweigend From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 637 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3870 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 16):
But yes, if the "journalists" had bothered to educate themselves about the subject,

At the moment, "journalism" does seem to be dead, a relic of the 20th century.

All the same, I'm for real-time MX streaming monitoring -- I think it's a great idea. The more info we have to diagnose issues, the better.


User currently offlineapfpilot From United States of America, joined Jun 2013, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

This is becoming more common even in smaller airplanes. EMB has it on the Phenoms: http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com/...pport/Pages/service-solutions.aspx


Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
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