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Airbus And Boeing Orders 2013 Part 2  
User currently onlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2847 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 45905 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Hello All,
Part 1 has become long and Part 2 is being created in order to continue the conversation and make loading the thread easier for members.

Part 1 can be found here Airbus And Boeing Orders 2013 (by Stitch Jan 10 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Regards,
Pat


All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
249 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 779 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 45321 times:

Apparently

Quote:
British Airways parent IAG ordering 62 A320 and A320neo for Vueling, places 100 A320neo options for BA, Iberia and Vueling. #airbus

We could have seen this coming

Source: Twitter, @FlightDKM



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 45283 times:

Sounds like the order has yet to be signed.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 779 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 44769 times:

The order for 62 A320 is now firm:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...62-airbus-a320-family-for-vueling/

> 30 A320ceo
> 32 A320neo
> 58 options

all for Vueling

Subject to shareholder approval the deal could be expanded with another 100 options which can be used by any airline in the group (BA, Iberia and Vueling)



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 44155 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 2):
Sounds like the order has yet to be signed.

The IAG shareholder meeting is scheduled to be held Sept. 26th, so a formal firming of the order will take place then. This also includes the 18 787s and 18 A350s for BA


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 44089 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 4):
so a formal firming of the order will take place then

The press release is not very clear, I get the impression that the 120 units for Vueling have already been firmed and the 100 extra options for BA, Iberia and Vueling are waiting for shareholder approval. But I'm not sure.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12898 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 43898 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
The press release is not very clear, I get the impression that the 120 units for Vueling have already been firmed and the 100 extra options for BA, Iberia and Vueling are waiting for shareholder approval.

It can certainly be read that way.

More tellingly, the first words in Airbus's release say:

Quote:
Firm order is part of a global IAG agreement for up to 220 Airbus single-aisle aircraft



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 43327 times:

Six 787s for Xiamen Airlines.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2013-08-...izes-Order-for-Six-787-Dreamliners



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 19 hours ago) and read 42747 times:

Boeing Statement on WestJet's Intent to Purchase 65 737 MAX Airplanes:

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=128779



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 42486 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):

Six 787s for Xiamen Airlines.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2013-08-...izes-Order-for-Six-787-Dreamliners

Showing in this week's update from Boeing, in addition to 7 777 UFO and two 737 cancellations


User currently offlineGUYAIR707 From Guyana, joined Jan 2011, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 8 hours ago) and read 42214 times:

Don't know if it was mentioned but WestJet signed a letter of intent for 65 737 MAX jets.

Source CBC News: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/stor...08/29/business-westjet-planes.html

"Calgary-based WestJet Airlines Ltd. has announced it will expand its fleet with the addition of 65 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft.

The carrier announced Friday that it has signed a letter of intent to buy 40 737 MAX 8 and 25 737 MAX 7 aircraft, with delivery scheduled to begin in September 2017."

GUYAIR707


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 42190 times:
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Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 10):
Don't know if it was mentioned but WestJet signed a letter of intent for 65 737 MAX jets.

Look up two replies.  


User currently offlineGUYAIR707 From Guyana, joined Jan 2011, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 42163 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):

Lol sorry I missed that. Thanks.

GUYAIR707


User currently offlinekaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2893 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 41951 times:

Quoting someone83 (Reply 9):
. Showing in this week's update from Boeing, in addition to 7 777 UFO and two 737 cancellation

There has been a rumor that these could be part of an order from EY on behalf of JET AIRWAYS , I guess time will tell

Karan


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 41933 times:

Or perhaps Qatar, they have 7x 77W options.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 41840 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 14):

That was just two months ago. Hard to believe they made up their minds so quickly. But the order # is dead on. We will see.

tortugamon


User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1715 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 41768 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 14):
Or perhaps Qatar, they have 7x 77W options.

My first thought as well, just before the Paris air show Al-Baker said they would order additional 777s, but that turned out to be just the disclosure of a UFO order placed many months before.

So I guess we'll hear an official QR statement at Dubai air show of these 7  

I wonder when QR will firm the options they have on 787s. Was expecting a 787-9 order long ago... Perhaps they'll convert some of their 787-8s on order to -9, if it indeed performs better than spec (which is expected...)



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 41193 times:

Airbus numbers for August are online, only 10 bookings.

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/co...ate-information/orders-deliveries/

Quote:
The month’s orders were led by the CIT leasing company’s booking for five longer-fuselage A321s in the current engine option (CEO) version, underscoring operators’ needs for higher capacity single-aisle aircraft. The Texas Aviation Group and affiliates contracted for four A319ceo jetliners in August.

Completing the month’s new business was China Eastern Airlines’ order for a widebody A330-200.

These 10 bookings in August brought the year’s total net orders to 902.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 41174 times:

I assume the A319 are some of those leased to AA?

And with the China Eastern A332, we can move one of the China MoUs into firm?


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 41127 times:

Quoting someone83 (Reply 18):
I assume the A319 are some of those leased to AA?

It looks that way, first delivery will take place later this year.

Quoting someone83 (Reply 18):
And with the China Eastern A332, we can move one of the China MoUs into firm?

I thought the China MoU for 18 A330s was for the -300 only?

[Edited 2013-09-05 01:59:08]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinesirtoby From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 386 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 41116 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):
Quoting someone83 (Reply 18):I assume the A319 are some of those leased to AA?
It looks that way, first delivery will take place later this year.

First TWO deliveries were already made in August if you look carefully...


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 41111 times:

Sorry, I read "A321" for some reason. They will be delivered later this year.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineaviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 644 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 40959 times:

Hello folks

Just for those who thinks that no-one works in France (and Europe) in August :
Airbus : 47 deliveries this august ... 38 single aisles, 7 A330's and 2 A380. Not the biggest month of the year, but a rather average one (monthly average january - august : 49.25...)

Waiting for boeing's figures

[Edited 2013-09-05 04:29:40]

User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 40875 times:

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 22):

Slackers  

tortugamon


User currently offlinejuanchito From Guatemala, joined Nov 2000, 1210 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 40615 times:

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 22):
Waiting for boeing's figures

According to Boeing Twitter they delivered 56 in August

Boeing Airplanes ‏@BoeingAirplanes
We delivered 56 airplanes in August. Year to date delivery total = 414. http://bit.ly/7MOQ4j #Boeing


Juanchito



Chapin de corazon.
User currently offlineStTim From UK - England, joined Aug 2013, 845 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 41013 times:

One would expect Boeings figures to be slightly skewed this year.

They have the 787's that are trundling down the line + the rework 787's to be delivered. I have not seen if the process to deliver the rework items is impacting the delivery of other frames or not. I suspect if nothing else it is a management distraction.


User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3875 posts, RR: 27
Reply 26, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 40858 times:
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we're venturing off topic again.. this thread was to be limited to actual orders not delivery data

User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 41571 times:

Changes reflected in Boeing's 787 orders cumulative through August, mostly previously discussed:

- Air Canada: 37x 788 changed to 15x 788 + 22x 789
- Air China: engine selection apparently open again as none indicated, previously was RR
- CIT Leasing: selected GE for two more of their 788s. Now 4x 788 GE and 6x 788 still open
- Travel Service: cancellation of their single 788
- Vietnam Airlines: selected GE for 8x 789
- Xiamen: ordered 6x GE powered 788


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 28, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 41373 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 27):
- Air Canada: 37x 788 changed to 15x 788 + 22x 789

Good to see it finally booked  



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineBogi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 29, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 41111 times:

Boeing orders through September 3 are online.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 30, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 40059 times:

No change in Boeing's orderbook this week

User currently offlinetimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1344 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 40076 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 27):

Very poor showing from RR, unfortunately. They really seem to be struggling to sell the T1000 in China.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7007 posts, RR: 63
Reply 32, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 39711 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 27):
- Air China: engine selection apparently open again as none indicated, previously was RR

Now, that is strange. The RR order was announced long ago.

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 31):
Very poor showing from RR, unfortunately. They really seem to be struggling to sell the T1000 in China.

Doing OK with the T700 though!   


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 33, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 38999 times:

Air Lease Corporation finally firmed their 30 787-10s, plus 3 787-9s:

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=128802



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2613 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 38942 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 33):

Air Lease Corporation finally firmed their 30 787-10s, plus 3 787-9s:

Great! So now the -10 backlog is now 80. I wonder when the other 22 will get firmed from BA and GECAS.

[Edited 2013-09-18 14:12:57]


Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 35, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 38844 times:

The BA order is pending shareholders approval later this month.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 38824 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 35):
Great! So now the -10 backlog is now 80. I wonder when the other 22 will get firmed from BA

The IAG shareholders meeting at which the proposed acquisitions of additional B787s and the Airbus A350- 1000 and Airbus A320s for BA and Vueling is to be voted upon is to be held on 25th and 26th September. Assuming that the shareholders vote in favour of the acquisitions then subject to any contractual negotiations still going on with A and B, the IAG board would be at liberty to firm up the orders once the meeting has been held.

Interestingly the shareholder documents refer to the exercise of options for 18 787s of which at least 12 will be 7810s and the remainder 789s - so IAG seems to have some wriggle room to increase the initial order for 7810s up to a maximum of 18 aircraft and not just the initial 12 announced to date.


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2613 posts, RR: 2
Reply 37, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 38773 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 36):
Quoting jumpjets (Reply 37):

Thanks for the info.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 38, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 38436 times:

Boeing says GECAS finalizes order for 10 Boeing 787-10. This was also a Paris air show order.

http://twitter.com/ReutersAero/status/380663612471132162



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineindia1 From India, joined Aug 2011, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 37921 times:
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From China...

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/0...airbus-china-idINBRE98O01520130925


User currently offlinesirtoby From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 386 posts, RR: 22
Reply 40, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days ago) and read 37694 times:

Also from China:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...ts-Airbus/articleshow/23036003.cms

43 new orders for the A320 family: 18+9 neo, 5+11 ceo


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 41, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 37479 times:

Zhejiang Loong Airlines signs MoU for 11 A320ceo and nine A320neo.

http://twitter.com/ReutersAero/status/382772396769705984



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 42, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 37461 times:

Qingdao Airlines orders five A320ceo and 18 A320neo.

http://twitter.com/ReutersAero/status/382775184056668160



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 43, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 37346 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 41):
Zhejiang Loong Airlines signs MoU for 11 A320ceo and nine A320neo.

Official press release here:
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...s-mou-for-20-a320-family-aircraft/

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 42):
Qingdao Airlines orders five A320ceo and 18 A320neo.

Official press release here:
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...es-orders-23-a320-family-aircraft/

Both deals have to be approved by the Chinese government before they can be added to Airbus backlog as firm orders.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 37350 times:

Quoting india1 (Reply 39):
From China...

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/0...30925

BOC Aviation 25 A320


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 45, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 37335 times:

Are these Chinese order new, or is it just distribution of previous Chinese orders?

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 46, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 37339 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 45):
Are these Chinese order new, or is it just distribution of previous Chinese orders?

Hong Kong Aviation Capital signed a MoU for 60 A320neo aircraft in June. Today's orders - which also includes A320ceo aircraft - are also a MoU so I assume these are not part of the previous MoU, otherwise they would have been firmed.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 47, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 37201 times:

Quoting chiad (Reply 44):
BOC Aviation 25 A320

Now confirmed: BOC Aviation has ordered 25 A320 family including 12 A320neo.

http://twitter.com/Airbus/status/382791744703582209

This one is a firm order.

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...ily-aircraft-including-12-a320neo/

[Edited 2013-09-25 02:09:35]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 48, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 36926 times:

VietJet orders up to 92 A320 aircraft, 62 firm + 30 options.

http://twitter.com/ReutersAero/status/382830453368975361



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 49, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 36838 times:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...p-to-100-new-a320-family-aircraft/

Quote:
Vietnam’s VietJetAir has signed a Memorandum of Understanding for up to 92 A320 Family aircraft and will lease eight more from third party lessors. The purchase agreement signed with Airbus today covers for 42 A320neo, 14 A320ceo and six A321ceo, plus 30 purchase rights for the A320 Family.

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1380090063_A320_Vietjet_Air.jpg



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 36
Reply 50, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 36692 times:

Indigo will get 20 A321neo, even though not clear if converted from the existing order or if added to it:

[quote]IndiGo president Aditya Ghosh told Business Standard that the airline has opted to take 20 A321neo which can seat 30-40 additional seats than the conventional 180 seat-A320s which it flies now. Earlier in the year, Airbus announced upgrades to A321neo increasing its seat capacity to 236 seats promising extra five percent reduction in unit costs. It is not clear whether IndiGo will select 220 seat or 236 seat configuration.

"Yes we will get 20 A321neo. Airbus is yet to give us delivery dates for them,'' Ghosh said. Airbus expects to begin deliveries of the A320neo is expected from 2015 and industry sources said the A321neo may be rolled out for commercial use by 2017.[/unquote]

http://www.business-standard.com/art...-airbus-planes-113092500760_1.html



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 51, posted (1 year 3 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 36179 times:

Air Europa orders 8 737 aircraft.

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 52, posted (1 year 3 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 36239 times:

WestJet firms agreement for 65 Boeing 737 Max aircraft.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=816



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 3 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 35906 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 52):
WestJet firms agreement for 65 Boeing 737 Max aircraft.

Thanks for the update again KarelXWB

That means the MAX now has 1563 orders.
It's a real possibility that FR could add another 200 frames to the backlog before years end.
With EIS coming up in 2017 a backlog of 2000++ is given.
I think it's possible that we might see a backlog of 3000 before EIS 2017.


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 54, posted (1 year 3 months 2 days ago) and read 35821 times:

Noticed it this week as well was a few 737s cancelations. Do we know who?

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 55, posted (1 year 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 35675 times:

Quoting chiad (Reply 53):
That means the MAX now has 1563 orders.

Actually the backlog is now 1567 instead of 1563, ALC ordered another 4 last week.

http://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/status/381202715168088065
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

Quoting chiad (Reply 53):
It's a real possibility that FR could add another 200 frames to the backlog before years end.

I'm not sure yet http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...risk-dragging-beyond-year-end.html

Quoting chiad (Reply 53):
I think it's possible that we might see a backlog of 3000 before EIS 2017.

Yeah I'm pretty sure. Boeing and Airbus sell around 500 A320 / 737 aircraft per year.

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 54):
Noticed it this week as well was a few 737s cancelations. Do we know who?

We'll have to wait until early next month, when the User Defined Reports are updated.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 56, posted (1 year 3 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 35298 times:

Vietnam Airlines has agreed to buy 19 787s.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...-dreamliners-idUSBRE98Q12H20130927



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 57, posted (1 year 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 35046 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 55):
ALC ordered another 4 last week.

Thanks, missed that one.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 56):
Vietnam Airlines has agreed to buy 19 787s.

Reuters corrected the article. No additional aircraft, merely their GE engine selection.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 58, posted (1 year 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 35024 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 57):
Reuters corrected the article. No additional aircraft, merely their GE engine selection.

Thanks.

So, another engine order for GE.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 59, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 34428 times:

Alaska Airlines Announce Order for Five Next-Generation 737-900ERs.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=128816



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 60, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 34207 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

IAG's shareholders have approved the 787, A350 and A320 order for BA and Vueling so those orders should be posting soon to the respective OEMs.

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 61, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 33721 times:

SAS announces finalization of order for 4 Airbus A330-300s, 8 A350-900s. Options for 6 more A350s.

http://twitter.com/R_Wall/status/385751931466956800
http://www.flysas.com/nl/Media-center/

Quote:
Today, SAS and Airbus have signed the final long haul aircraft order agreement comprising 4 A330-300 Enhanced and 8 A350-900 plus 6 options for A350-900. The Airbus A330 will be delivered 2015/16 and the Airbus A350 will be delivered from 2018.

The aircraft order has the flexibility to include considerable growth and will be financed inter alia by export credit financing and sale & leaseback. The list price of the order is estimated at 3.3 BUSD.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 62, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 33350 times:

Boeing's weekly update is showing the five 739ER for Alaska, one 737 for US Navy and 65 737s for Westjet. 15 737s has also been cancelled, not sure for whom

User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1715 posts, RR: 1
Reply 63, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 33251 times:

The 15 cancellations are also from Westjet. Boeing lists conversions from 737NGs to MAX as cancellations for the NG and new orders for the MAX.


146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7007 posts, RR: 63
Reply 64, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 32919 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 61):
SAS and Airbus have signed the final long haul aircraft order agreement

Final? SAS will never again order long-haul planes?  


User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 32859 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 64):
Final? SAS will never again order long-haul planes?

Hmm .. maybe this proves to be a correct prephecy.
Hello Lufthansa?   


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 66, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 32663 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 64):
Final? SAS will never again order long-haul planes?

  Poor wording of me.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 67, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 32218 times:

The Airbus numbers are out too, 170 orders booked in September.

http://www.airbus.com/company/market/orders-deliveries/



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 32128 times:

G'day

I am a bit confused   

In the Airbus August order and deliveries table it says LH has 17 A 380 on order. In the September version this has been reduced to 14.   

What is the real status of those orders, at one stage it was rumored LH was taking two more for a total of 19   


Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3403 posts, RR: 9
Reply 69, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 32121 times:

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 68):

G'day

I am a bit confused   

In the Airbus August order and deliveries table it says LH has 17 A 380 on order. In the September version this has been reduced to 14.   

What is the real status of those orders, at one stage it was rumored LH was taking two more for a total of 19   


Cheers

Peter

They certainly were and it was even mentioned in the presentation about the 779 A350 order but there's been 3 cancellations booked on the orders page for the A380.

Didn't see that one coming  


User currently offlinewingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2344 posts, RR: 5
Reply 70, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 31909 times:

According to a Google news piece those three are confirmed as being part of the LH order.

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 71, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 31837 times:

Airbus also passed its sales target of 1000 aircraft for 2013:

> Gross: 1112
> Net: 1062

They started the year with a target of 700, than raised it to 800 and finally raised it to 1000.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 72, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 31809 times:

Also good news for P&W, they just tweeted:

http://twitter.com/prattandwhitney/status/386200038059552769

Quote:
@Airbus has sold 2,348 neo airplanes. We have captured 53% of the engine selections to date.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineairlinebuilder From Philippines, joined Nov 2012, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 31701 times:

I just have a point of concern in the interest of having a accurate tally of sorts, given we all start counting from where airbus first put to commercial its wide body, then to narrow body and eventually to its VLAs - who between airbus and boeing is really selling well? i.e. if the A300 first flew 1972 then what is the corresponding orders with boeing on that particular period. In this case we start with a leveled playing field.

Why am I presenting this? Because I believe that Airbus is winning the sales worldwide. Thoughts?


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 74, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 31698 times:

Quoting airlinebuilder (Reply 73):
Why am I presenting this? Because I believe that Airbus is winning the sales worldwide. Thoughts?

I don't think anybody is "winning", Boeing and Airbus have a duopoly with a market share of about 50/50% between them. And I don't want to see anybody winning because strong competition makes better products.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 75, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 31673 times:

But to give you some numbers, someone else did the math:

http://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/382917149679165440

Quote:
Since 1990, Boeing wins the orders race over Airbus 13,468 to 12,118. Since 2000, Airbus wins 9,752 to 9,351.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently online7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1772 posts, RR: 16
Reply 76, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 31587 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 75):
But to give you some numbers, someone else did the math:


Orders are nice but it's the $$$$ per order that counts and that we'll never know.


User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 31907 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 71):

Airbus also passed its sales target of 1000 aircraft for 2013:

> Gross: 1112
> Net: 1062

Awesome.
The A350XWB's backlog is now 725 frames.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 78, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 31899 times:

Quoting chiad (Reply 77):
The A350XWB's backlog is now 725 frames.

Actually it's 733, the SAS order was firmed this month thus will not be listed in the order book until next month.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 76):
Orders are nice but it's the $$$$ per order that counts and that we'll never know.

Agreed.

[Edited 2013-10-04 14:11:52]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 31441 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 78):
Actually it's 733, the SAS order was firmed this month thus will not be listed in the order book until next month.

 
As always .. I gladly stand corrected though we dont know if there also has been some cancellations during the first 4 working days of October. But most likely it hasn't.

The order race is close, especially in the wide-body category.

Narrow-bodies
Airbus: 900
Boeing: 723

Wide-bodies
Airbus: 174
Boeing: 167

There are, however, some awaited mega orders that could tip the balance soundly in Boeing's favour:
Ryanair's MAX order.
And the Gulf carriers promised B777X's commitement.

I don't know if Airbus has anything more big lined up for 2013. Maybe some more from China?


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 80, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 31411 times:

Quoting chiad (Reply 79):
I don't know if Airbus has anything more big lined up for 2013. Maybe some more from China?

Airbus still has 144 MoUs for the A320neo.

http://www.pdxlight.com/neomax.htm

But that's without the 100 A320neo's for China.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...airbus-china-idUSBRE98I0CI20130919

For the wide-body jets, there are still 18 A330s for China to be firmed.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-buy-42-a320s-and-18-a330s-385146/

And during the Beijing air show last month, Leahy said their will be more A330 orders later this year.

Next we have the Dubai air show. This air show will be mainly concentrated around the formal launch of the 777X but Airbus always has some nice orders too. I expect at least a few A350 orders, there's a rumor Etihad wants more A350s. And Emirates might convert some -900s to -1000s.

All together, the A350 backlog should easily exceed 750 units this year.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 31238 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 80):

Hmmm...... Ethiad cancelled part of their A350 order a while back and now they plan to order more.   



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 82, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 31211 times:

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 81):
Ethiad cancelled part of their A350 order a while back and now they plan to order more.

Sure, why not? They canceled -1000s, perhaps they want a few -900s too.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 30790 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 80):
Airbus still has 144 MoUs for the A320neo.

Indeed you are right. 144 MoUs plus another 100 from IAG.

Thanks for the update!


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 84, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 30761 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 81):
Hmmm...... Ethiad cancelled part of their A350 order a while back and now they plan to order more.

At the time they clearly cited financial reasons, and emphasized their commitment and support to the type (A350-1000).
Of course at the time it was fashionable to dump mightily on the A350-1000's prospects - a large number of the A-net community clearly wishing to ignore the impact of a 2 year delay.
So the comments either got ignored or scorned.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet

Quoting chiad (Reply 77):
The A350XWB's backlog is now 725 frames.

For reference, the 787's backlog was c. 860 when it went into service

Rgds


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 85, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 30271 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 84):
The fat lady hasn't sung yet

 

Clearly the redesign was the right choose. IMO Airbus should had never launched the three A350 family members in 2006 together. If they had launched the -1000 in 2011/2012, then:

> The redesign was never happened and the -1000 would have been the 308t version from the beginning
> Plans for the 777X would not exist yet

Quoting astuteman (Reply 84):
For reference, the 787's backlog was c. 860 when it went into service

Both aircraft are selling at the same rate:

> A350: 733 (backlog) / 2,641 (days since launch) = 0.28 aircraft per day
> B787: 979 (backlog) / 3,450 (days since launch) = 0.28 aircraft per day

Now with 365 days to go until EIS and selling 0.28 aircraft per day, I think the A350 too will enter the market with a backlog of 365 * 0.28 = 102 + 733 = 835 aircraft. Of course, these numbers are averages, thus it could be a bit less or more.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 30027 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 85):
Both aircraft are selling at the same rate:

> A350: 733 (backlog) / 2,641 (days since launch) = 0.28 aircraft per day
> B787: 979 (backlog) / 3,450 (days since launch) = 0.28 aircraft per day

Now with 365 days to go until EIS and selling 0.28 aircraft per day, I think the A350 too will enter the market with a backlog of 365 * 0.28 = 102 + 733 = 835 aircraft. Of course, these numbers are averages, thus it could be a bit less or more.

Aha .. let's offset that for a second since JAL just ordered 31 A350's.
  

835 frames is definatly a possibility.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 87, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 29826 times:

It's not worth opening a new thread so I post it here: ILFC announced today it has signed a 12-year lease agreement with SriLankan for three A350-900 aircraft.

http://www.ilfc.com/resources/press_...gn_lease_agreement_10_7_2013-1.pdf

SriLankan has 4 A350 aircraft on firm order with Airbus, so they will operate 7 A350s total.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 88, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 29627 times:

Quoting chiad (Reply 86):
Aha .. let's offset that for a second since JAL just ordered 31 A350's.

Fabrice Brégier confirmed the order as being a firm order. The backlog now holds 756 units, although he forgot to include the SAS order.

http://youtu.be/iydD0Ez5Y54



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 89, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 28871 times:

No changes on Boeing's order side for a second week in a row

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4988 posts, RR: 41
Reply 90, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 28728 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 89):
No changes on Boeing's order side for a second week in a row

I guess everyone is waiting for the Dubai Air Show.  


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Reply 91, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 28050 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Boeing and Aerolineas Argentinas have completed an agreement for 20 737-800s

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina, Oct. 21, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] and Aerolineas Argentinas, the flag carrier of Argentina, have completed an agreement for 20 Next-Generation 737-800 airplanes. The agreement, valued at $1.8 billion at list prices, will play a key role in Aerolineas Argentinas' continued efforts to modernize its fleet and increase passenger satisfaction. When the order is finalized, it will be posted as a firm order to the Boeing Orders and Deliveries website.

Source, Boeing: http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=128839



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 27863 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 91):
Boeing and Aerolineas Argentinas have completed an agreement for 20 737-800s

Thanks for the update PanAm_DC10
One of these sales campaigns that silently passes by. But I bet Airbus wouldn't mind to make Aerolineas Argentinas an all airbus operator.
No MAX unfortunatly. I guess availability plays a big card.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 93, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 27525 times:

Quoting chiad (Reply 92):
But I bet Airbus wouldn't mind to make Aerolineas Argentinas an all airbus operator.

They just introduced the A330 in the fleet.

Quoting chiad (Reply 92):
No MAX unfortunatly. I guess availability plays a big card.

Boeing still has 500+ NG slots left.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 94, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 27252 times:

Aeroflot shareholders have now approved the deal for 14x A359 and 8x A358 aircraft (instead of 18x A358 and 4x A359). This brings the A350-900 backlog beyond 500 units.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4988 posts, RR: 41
Reply 95, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 27211 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 94):
Aeroflot shareholders have now approved the deal for 14x A359 and 8x A358 aircraft (instead of 18x A358 and 4x A359). This brings the A350-900 backlog beyond 500 units.

Good news, and the number of more than 500 copies of the A350-900 alone is amazing.  


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 96, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 26748 times:

Korean Air buys 12 aircraft:

> 5x B747-8i
> 6x B777-300ER
> 1x B787-9

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...anair-boeing-idUSBRE99N06A20131024



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 97, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 26631 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 96):
Korean Air buys 12 aircraft:

So this is the firming up of their June MoU.


User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 26631 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 96):
Korean Air buys 12 aircraft:

> 5x B747-8i
> 6x B777-300ER
> 1x B787-9

Wow .. that's a nice one, especially the 5x B747-8i


User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 99, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 26599 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 97):
So this is the firming up of their June MoU.

I don't remember the June MoU having the one 787 but otherwise, I agree.

tortugamon


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 100, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 26554 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 97):
So this is the firming up of their June MoU.

Indeed.

More interesting is the 2018 delivery target, can Boeing stretch the 747 production that much?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 101, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 26488 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 100):
More interesting is the 2018 delivery target, can Boeing stretch the 747 production that much?

The article does not say which aircraft will be purchased by the end of 2018. That timing makes more sense for the 787-9 than the 747-8I.

tortugamon


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 102, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 26800 times:

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 101):
The article does not say which aircraft will be purchased by the end of 2018.

Well, it literally says "the 12 aircraft will be purchased by end-2018".



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 103, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 26794 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 102):
Well, it literally says "the 12 aircraft will be purchased by end-2018".

I take that to mean that if all 747s are delivered/purchased in 2017 that they will have indeed been purchased by end-2018. I think they gave the last delivery date for all three models. The 787-9 having the fewest available slots.

tortugamon


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7201 posts, RR: 50
Reply 104, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 26795 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 100):
More interesting is the 2018 delivery target, can Boeing stretch the 747 production that much?

It does not say they will not take the aircraft before 2018; it says that they will all be delivered by the end of 2018. The way Boeing production is going the 748's will probably be delivered first.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 105, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 26778 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 104):
It does not say they will not take the aircraft before 2018; it says that they will all be delivered by the end of 2018. The way Boeing production is going the 748's will probably be delivered first.

That makes sense, thanks.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 106, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 26408 times:

Boeing's weekly update is showing the 20 737-800s to Aerolineas Argentina, as well as 2 737s for ElAl, 42 737 UFO and 12 737s cancellations

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 107, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 26179 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 106):
42 737 UFO and 12 737s cancellations

Sounds like a 737NG to MAX conversion for someone.


User currently offlineKengo From Japan, joined Apr 2013, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 108, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 26105 times:

Not firm yet but as expected China commits to around 200 737MAXs.

http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/exc...s-china-commitments-021325438.html


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 109, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days ago) and read 25920 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 106):
2 737s for ElAl


737-900ER, bringing their total order up to eight.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 110, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 25239 times:

JetBlue orders 15x A321ceo and 20x A321neo aircraft; converters 18 A320s to A321s.

http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix....-newsArticle&ID=1869503&highlight=



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 111, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 24821 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 96):
Korean Air buys 12 aircraft:

> 5x B747-8i
> 6x B777-300ER
> 1x B787-9

Now listed on Boeing order update up to Oct 29.'

In addition a single 737BBJ was booked the same week


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 112, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 24169 times:

Arik Air orders two 777-300ER aircraft (instead of the two previously ordered 747-8i aircraft).

http://twitter.com/FG_STrim/status/397744621540745218



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 113, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 23639 times:

Airbus booked 153 new orders last month, including 20 A330s (China finally firmed their A330 MoU).

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/co...ate-information/orders-deliveries/

Net orders for the year: 1215; backlog nearly 5400 aircraft.

Quote:
China Eastern contracted for six A330-200s and one A330-300; six A330-300s were booked by Air China; Hainan Airlines ordered one A330-200 and an A330-300; while China Southern placed an order for one A330-300.

Completing the A330 activity during the month was the sale of four A330-300s to SAS.


[Edited 2013-11-07 07:20:20]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 114, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 23610 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 113):

Impressive - 59 wide body orders in total for October.

182 net A350WXB orders in 2013 so far.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 115, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 23575 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 114):
182 net A350WXB orders in 2013 so far.

Plus 42 A330s this year. If then can sell another 10 before the end of the year, they'll have the same net figure as last year.

[Edited 2013-11-07 07:34:07]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 116, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 23598 times:

A very good month for Airbus.

Air China: 6 A330-300
China Eastern: 6 A330-200; 1 A330-300
China Southern: 1 A330-300
Hainan: 1 A330-200; 1 A330-300
SAS: 4 A330-300; 8A350-900
Japan Airlines: 18 A350-900; 13 A350-1000
VivaAerobus: 52 A320
Jetblue: 35 A321
OHA: 1 A319 (To AA)
Easyjet: 6 A320


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 117, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 23515 times:

Southwest Airlines has quietly converted 20 737 NG orders to Max.

http://twitter.com/ghimlay/status/398477669026639873



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1091 posts, RR: 1
Reply 118, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 23412 times:

Boeing update for Nov 7 2014

28 new orders (Unidentified Customer(s) 26 737s and two 787s. In the changes category, reduced 737 net orders by 26.

Another conversion customer + 2 new 787's.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 119, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 23261 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 117):

You have to wonder who had the better strategy there - Airbus by not allowing conversions, or Boeing allowing conversions. I would have thought Boeing would have the bigger issue there as they have a bigger pre-Max production line to fill due to the later Max EIS date.


User currently offlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 120, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 23113 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 119):


You have to wonder who had the better strategy there - Airbus by not allowing conversions, or Boeing allowing conversions. I would have thought Boeing would have the bigger issue there as they have a bigger pre-Max production line to fill due to the later Max EIS date.

With the current pace of conversions for Boeing the likelyhood of a gap between the NG production and MAX ramp-up increases significantly


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 121, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 23044 times:

Changes to 787 orders cumulative through Oct:

- Aeromexico selects GE for 6 more of their 789s
- CIT converts 5x 788 to 789
- KAL order for 1x 788 (an oddball, as the rest of their order consists of 789s)
- Unidentified order for 2x GE powered 788


User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 23002 times:

Quoting someone83 (Reply 120):
With the current pace of conversions for Boeing the likelyhood of a gap between the NG production and MAX ramp-up increases significantly

I calculated that Boeing has a B737NG backlog of about 1900 frames.
I am not 100% updated on the planned ramp-up numbers but assuming they average on 40 units per month the backlog should be suffiecient for almost 4 years.
(With 364 Deliveries of the first 10 monts the 2013 average is 36.4)
IMHO the 737 wont have much issue with a smooth shift two MAX production in 2017/2018 as the NG undoubtly will get a few hundred more orders.
This is unless the conversion Become a trend, but I that's highly unlikely since Boeing is in full control over this.
Southwest, being Boeing B737 Largest customer, probably gets some special priority treathment I Assume.
 

The current generation of A320 has a backlog of about 1780, reaching way into 2017 with a average production of 40 per month (I read that this might increase to 50 though).
With NEOs start rolling out of the factories in 2015 maybe Airbus shold allow conversions as well?

[Edited 2013-11-07 10:21:54]

User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3875 posts, RR: 27
Reply 123, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 22966 times:
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Quoting fun2fly (Reply 118):
28 new orders (Unidentified Customer(s) 26 737s and two 787s. In the changes category, reduced 737 net orders by 26.

from past examples, I suspect this is 26 planes moving from the existing to the MAX.


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 124, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 22901 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 113):
backlog nearly 5400 aircraft.

It's all to easy to get used to these figures. But this is a mind-numbingly large quantity of aircraft yet to be built. Even more so when Boeing's backlog added to this takes their combined backlogs to well over 10 000 aircraft.

Quoting moo (Reply 114):
Impressive - 59 wide body orders in total for October

For a manufacturer supposedly being pushed out of the widebody race it's not so shabby  
Quoting moo (Reply 114):
182 net A350WXB orders in 2013 so far.

for an aircraft supposedly being strangled through having to compete against both the 787 and 777 it's not so shabby  

Seriously though, VLA's apart (sadly) the orders just keep rolling in.
Something is going to have to shift a gear in the supply system fairly soon...

rgds


User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1735 posts, RR: 8
Reply 125, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 22843 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 124):
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 113):
backlog nearly 5400 aircraft.

It's all to easy to get used to these figures. But this is a mind-numbingly large quantity of aircraft yet to be built. Even more so when Boeing's backlog added to this takes their combined backlogs to well over 10 000 aircraft.

Yup. When I was a kid, the best-seller jet airliner was the 727, at 1831 copies…

I guess the question may be: when should I begin to feel old?


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7201 posts, RR: 50
Reply 126, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 22746 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 124):
For a manufacturer supposedly being pushed out of the widebody race it's not so shabby

I don't know who thinks that Airbus is being pushed out of the widebody race; obviously someone who lets bias speak instead of facts. It is clear that the A350 is going to be a very competitive plane, and its main disadvantage is that Boeing will have a smaller model and a larger model to surround it. But all three are going to be competitive, and all three are going to continue to sell all that Boeing and Airbus can produce for some time to come. Boeing does have a slight edge here in that they have two models to one for Airbus, but I do not think that that will be a crippling disadvantage. I do think Airbus will have an edge with the narrowbody line, especially if the GTF proves to be better than predicted at this point, which I consider likely (I think Boeing made a big mistake in not using it on the MAX-I think it has a lot more potential than the LEAP-X.) I say that because I believe that the A32x and the 737NG were as close to equal as can be, but the NEO will gain more than the MAX at less cost, and the A321NEO will outclass the 739MAX by more than the present A321 outclasses the 739ER. But if Boeing does not solve the 787 reliability problems soon, and the A350 has a smooth introduction, then it may be Boeing who gets pushed out of the widebody market.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 127, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 22969 times:
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Quoting someone83 (Reply 116):
A very good month for Airbus.

just another observation from the Airbus report..

Quote:
More than 40 percent of A320 Family sales are now for the longest-fuselage A321, confirming the global trend for higher-capacity airliners.

That quote refers to this year, I assume, with 462 out of 1037 orders.

The A321 really looks like a plane whose time is coming .....

Rgds


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7201 posts, RR: 50
Reply 128, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 22803 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 127):
The A321 really looks like a plane whose time is coming .....

Well, we keep getting these threads and comments about "when will we get a true 757 replacement?" The A321NEO is coming pretty close, and I expect that like all other airliners, it will improve with time. It would not surprise me at all if after a few years in service that its range will equal the 757, especially with the GTF as I am expecting that engine to exceed all expectations, and be dramatically improved as well.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12898 posts, RR: 46
Reply 129, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 22715 times:
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Quoting astuteman (Reply 127):
The A321 really looks like a plane whose time is coming .....

It certainly is.   

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 128):
Well, we keep getting these threads and comments about "when will we get a true 757 replacement?" The A321NEO is coming pretty close, and I expect that like all other airliners, it will improve with time.

I noted in another thread that the A321 backlog is more than the total 757 production run.  Wow!



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 130, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 22710 times:

Quoting chiad (Reply 122):
The current generation of A320 has a backlog of about 1780, reaching way into 2017 with a average production of 40 per month (I read that this might increase to 50 though).

Airbus is studying 50 per month for the end of the decade, and the rate will go to 44 per month in 2018 first (after the NEO transition has been completed).

Of course, these were the plans before Boeing latest announced the rate for 46 per month in 2016..

Quoting chiad (Reply 122):
With NEOs start rolling out of the factories in 2015 maybe Airbus shold allow conversions as well?

The issue with conversions is that it will put you in the queue beyond 2020. Southwest Airlines latest conversion for example pushed deliveries back to 2023. This may work for some airlines, but others want their aircraft asap and A320ceo / B737 NG aircraft can be delivered many years earlier. Airbus final A320ceo deliveries are scheduled for 2018.

[Edited 2013-11-07 13:06:19]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently onlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 1024 posts, RR: 12
Reply 131, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 22694 times:

Quoting chiad (Reply 122):
IMHO the 737 wont have much issue with a smooth shift two MAX production in 2017/2018 as the NG undoubtly will get a few hundred more orders.

We have some customers wanting to defer deliveries by changing to the MAX and we have other customers complaining they can't accelerate deliveries because of the unavailability of slots.

I think Boeing is probably doing some massaging to keep everyone happy!


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 132, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 22663 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 129):
I noted in another thread that the A321 backlog is more than the total 757 production run.

As far as I can tell the backlog is 1 063 planes out of 1 919 ordered - that's 55% of all orders since launch yet to be delivered....  Wow!  

rgds


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 133, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 22678 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 126):
I don't know who thinks that Airbus is being pushed out of the widebody race;

It was in fact Mike Bair (senior vice president of marketing for Boeing) who last year said "we'll put Airbus out of the wide-body market". A few months later, MSN1 made its first flight and the flood gates were opened. Oops. I know, he's a marketing guy, but it makes me wonder if he really underestimate his rival.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7201 posts, RR: 50
Reply 134, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 22645 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 133):
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 126):
I don't know who thinks that Airbus is being pushed out of the widebody race;

It was in fact Mike Bair (senior vice president of marketing for Boeing) who last year said "we'll put Airbus out of the wide-body market".

Well, I suppose it's appropriate, considering all of the silly things JL has said about Boeing. But the difference is that JL has been pretty successful for Airbus; I don't know that Mike Bair has done as well for Boeing.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 135, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 22650 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 129):
I noted in another thread that the A321 backlog is more than the total 757 production run
Quoting astuteman (Reply 132):
As far as I can tell the backlog is 1 063 planes out of 1 919 ordered - that's 55% of all orders since launch yet to be delivered....

  

> 1,050 B757 aircraft built
> 1,919 A321 aircraft ordered (of which 514 are NEO)
> 856 A321 aircraft delivered, 1,063 in backlog

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 134):
Well, I suppose it's appropriate, considering all of the silly things JL has said about Boeing.

  Yes, it's what marketing guys do, I find it sometimes very entertaining.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 136, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 22607 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 106):
42 737 UFO and 12 737s cancellations

It now seems that those 42 737s are for the MAX.




Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 137, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 22643 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 134):
I don't know that Mike Bair has done as well for Boeing.

Considering he was fired a couple weeks ago, I would say that he has not done that well. MB is not the JL equivalent at Boeing. Neither is RK.

tortugamon


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 138, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 22523 times:
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Quoting travelhound (Reply 131):
We have some customers wanting to defer deliveries by changing to the MAX and we have other customers complaining they can't accelerate deliveries because of the unavailability of slots.

I think Boeing is probably doing some massaging to keep everyone happy!

Boeing starts MAX production in 2015 with deliveries in 2017, at which point the delivery rate will be 47 planes a month, so Boeing should be able to meet both requirements.


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 139, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 22332 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 138):
Boeing starts MAX production in 2015 with deliveries in 2017, at which point the delivery rate will be 47 planes a month, so Boeing should be able to meet both requirements.

Airbus currently have a c. 800 plane advantage (4 200 vs 3 400) in the narrowbody market (not including the Chinese 200 plane 737 order) and yet are really struggling to push the A320 delivery rate past 42 per month, aiming for 44 by 2018.

I wish Boeing well aiming for 47 per month in 3 years time, but I can't help wondering what makes them think the can when Airbus think they can't.

Rgds


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 140, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 22316 times:
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Quoting astuteman (Reply 139):
I wish Boeing well aiming for 47 per month in 3 years time, but I can't help wondering what makes them think the can when Airbus think they can't.

Maybe Boeing's suppliers can ramp better than Airbus'? Spirit Aerosystems stated back in August they could support a 47-frame production rate if Boeing went forward with it.


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 141, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 22315 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 140):
Maybe Boeing's suppliers can ramp better than Airbus'? Spirit Aerosystems stated back in August they could support a 47-frame production rate if Boeing went forward with it.

Yeah. Like I said, I'm just curious why Airbus, already at a higher rate, and with a higher backlog, aren't demonstrating the same ambition

Rgds


User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 22292 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 113):
Airbus booked 153 new orders last month

Maybe a little off-topic but I've noticed that Airbus delivered 59 frames (vs 54 for Boeing) including 4 A380's.
Very nice performance!


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 143, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 22114 times:

Speaking about the A320neo, assembly of the first components is on track:

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...ts-first-major-component-assembly/

Quoting astuteman (Reply 139):
I wish Boeing well aiming for 47 per month in 3 years time, but I can't help wondering what makes them think the can when Airbus think they can't.

I don't know the differences between the supply chains of the two manufacturers, but Airbus had already some challenges to ramp up to the current rate of 42 per month, "the floor is shaking already". Hence they want to stabilize it first before continuing uphill.

Quoting someone83 (Reply 120):
With the current pace of conversions for Boeing the likelyhood of a gap between the NG production and MAX ramp-up increases significantly
Quoting chiad (Reply 122):
I calculated that Boeing has a B737NG backlog of about 1900 frames.

The aeroturbopower blog has a new article about this subject.

http://aeroturbopower.blogspot.com/2.../11/boeing-b737ng-order-drain.html



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently onlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 1024 posts, RR: 12
Reply 144, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 22072 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 139):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 138):
Boeing starts MAX production in 2015 with deliveries in 2017, at which point the delivery rate will be 47 planes a month, so Boeing should be able to meet both requirements.

Airbus currently have a c. 800 plane advantage (4 200 vs 3 400) in the narrowbody market (not including the Chinese 200 plane 737 order) and yet are really struggling to push the A320 delivery rate past 42 per month, aiming for 44 by 2018.

I wish Boeing well aiming for 47 per month in 3 years time, but I can't help wondering what makes them think the can when Airbus think they can't.

By 2015 they should have the third line up and running, so from a assembly perspective this should be achievable. Like you mentioned it comes down to the suppliers.

How many aircraft can each line assemble per month? I thought it was twenty one!

Boeing manufacturing MAX's in 2015 is like Airbus manufacturing NEO's in 2013.

This might be a little catch up play by Boeing!


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 145, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 22078 times:

Quoting travelhound (Reply 144):
How many aircraft can each line assemble per month? I thought it was twenty one!

That's about right, the Renton facility was built with a rate of 63 per month in mind.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 146, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 22026 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 145):
That's about right, the Renton facility was built with a rate of 63 per month in mind.

And that is independent of the P-8 line, evidently, which can do commercial birds, as well. So Boeing could theoretically support more than 63.   


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 147, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 21755 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 146):
So Boeing could theoretically support more than 63.

That's the "easy" bit. The trick is getting everyone else to support it  

apologies if this is off topic

Rgds


User currently offlineStTim From UK - England, joined Aug 2013, 845 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 21578 times:

The rate limiting step is that of the slowest step in the chain can reliably acheive. It is unlikely ever to be the final assembly operation.

User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3875 posts, RR: 27
Reply 149, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 21330 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 145):
That's about right, the Renton facility was built with a rate of 63 per month in mind.

Let's not rewrite history.. the FAL's were built many years before a 63/mo rate was envisioned.. That only happened when they started with moving lines and Toyota Production techniques.

Please recall this is where we built 727's, and hydrofoils before 757's.. the other half was maxed out at 20- 24/mo using the old manufacturing plan. Nobody even dreamed of a 30 rate let alone a 60+ rate.

Edit: We are deviating from the purpose of this thread which was (and I hope still is) actual sales, MOU's and options, not speculations and asides.

[Edited 2013-11-08 09:09:05]

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7007 posts, RR: 63
Reply 150, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 21040 times:

I apologise for taking this fascinating discussion about production rates off-topic but...

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 113):
(China finally firmed their A330 MoU)
Quoting someone83 (Reply 116):
Air China: 6 A330-300
China Eastern: 6 A330-200; 1 A330-300
China Southern: 1 A330-300
Hainan: 1 A330-200; 1 A330-300

Well, that's 16 accounted for but the MoU signed in April was for 18 so I assume there are still 2 more to place.

Also of interest (well, to me) is that - assuming current loyalties remain - 15 of these A330s will have RR and one will have PW.

Perhaps now we can also put to rest the never very convincing suggestion (made in this forum by some ... well, by one PW apologist) that this:

http://www.pw.utc.com/Press/Story/20130617-0300/

...implied 16 new orders. It obviously didn't. At the end of September China Southern had 30 A330s in service or on order. Now (at the end of October) they have 31. 14 have RR. 17 have or will have PW.

And, while we're at it...

China Eastern have 44 in service or on order.
Air China have 46 in service or on order plus 5 leased planes = 51.

The Hainan / Hong Kong numbers are a bit hazy as they have so many leased A330s but it's certainly 30+ of which 6 have PW (acquired when Grupo Marsans folded) and all the rest have RR.

One last footnote is that this is PW's first order (for two engines) for the PW4000 this year. By contrast, GE have sold 288 widebody engines in 2013 and RR 484 and both have more to come.

[Edited 2013-11-08 20:54:04]

[Edited 2013-11-08 21:00:05]

User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 889 posts, RR: 0
Reply 151, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 20888 times:

Flightglobal are reporting that Airbus has started converting OEM orders to NEO

==================
Airbus backlog reveals conversions to A320neo

Two customers for the baseline Airbus A320 family appear to have converted their orders to the A320neo, despite previous insistence from the airframer that such swaps would not be entertained.

http://pro.flightglobal.com/news/art...als-conversions-to-A320neo-392770/


User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 152, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 21142 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 151):
Airbus backlog reveals conversions to A320neo

As I have no access to the Flightglobal Pro I was wondering if there's any indication of who these two airlines are and the number of frames involved?

As Airbus seem to have more CEO orders than needed to avoid any gap in production this shouldn't be a bad thing. The NEO has a premium of about $10 mill on list price.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 153, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20861 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 150):
Well, that's 16 accounted for but the MoU signed in April was for 18 so I assume there are still 2 more to place.

There was 1 A330 order for China in September too.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 151):
Flightglobal are reporting that Airbus has started converting OEM orders to NEO

That makes sense because Airbus is currently overbooking the A320ceo.

[Edited 2013-11-09 06:14:57]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 154, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20227 times:

@flood There were some A320ceo conversions.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...als-conversions-to-a320neo-392770/

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 80):
there's a rumor Etihad wants more A350s
Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 81):
Hmmm...... Ethiad cancelled part of their A350 order a while back and now they plan to order more.
Quoting astuteman (Reply 84):
At the time they clearly cited financial reasons, and emphasized their commitment and support to the type (A350-1000).

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...tihad-airbus-idUSBRE9AA0GG20131111

[Edited 2013-11-11 04:08:18]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 155, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 19483 times:

This weeks update from Boeing is showing 20 737s moved from UFOs to Southwest

User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3875 posts, RR: 27
Reply 156, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 19339 times:
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Quoting Someone83 (Reply 155):
This weeks update from Boeing is showing 20 737s moved from UFOs to Southwest

Recall that when they showed up initially with a corresponding 20 a/p cancellation, I note that it was a NG to MAX switch.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 157, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 18775 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 156):
I note that it was a NG to MAX switch.

That's correct.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 158, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 18759 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 153):
Airbus is currently overbooking the A320ceo.

Airbus now for the first time confirmed that they're overbooking the current A320.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...on-current-a320-production-393004/



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinericknroll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 900 posts, RR: 0
Reply 159, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 18576 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 141):
Yeah. Like I said, I'm just curious why Airbus, already at a higher rate, and with a higher backlog, aren't demonstrating the same ambition

I might be imagining things, but I have a feeling not all these orders will need to be fulfilled. There could be more than one Kingfisher hiding out there.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 160, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 18223 times:

Related to the Pegasus order of 100 A320neo aircraft last year, the Turkish carrier will power all aircraft with CFM engines.

http://twitter.com/ReutersAero/status/401349507616481280



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 161, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17985 times:

Boeing has secured firm orders for its 737 Max from multiple Chinese airlines, and says that announcements for aircraft "in the hundreds" will soon be made.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rm-orders-for-max-in-china-393063/

Quoting someone83 (Reply 116):
VivaAerobus: 52 A320

BTW, the VivaAerobus order was "a very difficult campaign".

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-after-vivaaerobus-success-393049/

[Edited 2013-11-15 12:08:00]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 162, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17908 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 139):
I wish Boeing well aiming for 47 per month in 3 years time, but I can't help wondering what makes them think the can when Airbus think they can't.

This just sounds like they have firmed up the commitments made last month.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...boeing-china-idUSBRE99O02F20131025

tortugamon


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 163, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 17496 times:
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Quoting ricknroll (Reply 159):
It might be imagining things, but I have a feeling not all these orders will need to be fulfilled. There could be more than one Kingfisher hiding out there

I don't buy that. Given the current order rates and lead times, for every order that drops out, another one will fill it.

There might be more of an explanation in the article KarelXWB linked in reply 158

Quote:
He says Airbus has recorded “overbooking” on the current A320, adding: “It’s allowed us to close the transition between the [A320] and the [A320neo].”
Quote:
Wilhelm says the production rate for the A320neo could potentially be stepped up, but stresses that this will only occur once the airframer is “comfortable”, and that the “priority” for Airbus is to secure the transition to the A320neo at rate 42.

It would appear that Airbus's overriding objective is to protect the smooth transition from A320CEO to A320NEO at all costs. This suggests that they are going to be a lot more cautious about rate increases pre 2015 than post 2015

I guess that will give Boeing the chance to catch up with 737 output in the short term. But I guess they will want to exercise the same caution during the MAX transition

Rgds


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 164, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 17197 times:

Quoting ricknroll (Reply 159):
I might be imagining things, but I have a feeling not all these orders will need to be fulfilled. There could be more than one Kingfisher hiding out there.

There still is that suspicious Kingfisher order but it doesn't really matter because the A320ceo is overbooked by about 100 copies. So even if you take the cancellations in account, all A320ceo delivery slots are full.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 165, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 16858 times:
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The order frenzy at Dubai is now in full swing.

Emirates orders 50 A380-800s and 150 777Xs.

Qatar orders 50 777Xs.

Etihad orders 17 777-9, 8 777-8, 30 787-10 and 1 777 Freighter.

FlyDubai orders 11 737-800 and up to 100 737-8.


User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 166, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 16633 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 165):
The order frenzy at Dubai is now in full swing.

Excellent!
Do you have an overview of what is firm as well?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 167, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 16621 times:
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Quoting chiad (Reply 166):
Do you have an overview of what is firm as well?

The 777X, 777, 787 and 737NG are all firm (EK also has 50 777X options - not sure about QR and EY). The 737-8 order by flydubai is for "up to 100", so they might still be determining the mix of firm and options that makes up that 100.


User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 168, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16452 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 167):
The 777X, 777, 787 and 737NG are all firm

Hmmm ... surely it's not all firm. That's why I am asking.
As I read it the 150 B777X for EK is firm (with another 50 options).
But I think Qatar Airways has signed a letter of intent for 50 777Xs.
The 25 777Xs and 30 787s from Ethiad seems to be firm.
The reports are a it confusing.

Maybe we'll have to wait until Boeing updates its spreadsheet?


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 169, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16468 times:

Quoting chiad (Reply 168):
The reports are a it confusing.

Emirates signed a commitment for 150 firm orders. Meaning it's not firm yet, but it will be soon.

Qatar is not clear indeed, a LOI can be a combination of firm orders and options.

Etihad sounds firm orders to me.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 170, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16423 times:

Emirates order is for 115x 777-9X and 35x 777-8X aircraft.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 889 posts, RR: 0
Reply 171, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16311 times:

Flightglobal today reports that there will soon be MAX orders in the 'hundreds' announced for Chinese airlines

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...-firm-orders-for-max-in-china.html


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 172, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16261 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 115):
Plus 42 A330s this year. If then can sell another 10 before the end of the year, they'll have the same net figure as last year.

Another 5 A330 freighters ordered by Qatar, including 8 options.

http://twitter.com/Airbus/status/402025385522917376



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 173, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16213 times:
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Quoting chiad (Reply 168):
Hmmm ... surely it's not all firm. That's why I am asking.

The 777X was not formally launched until today, so LH, EK, QR and EY had to sign agreements to buy (just as BA, SQ, GECAS and company had to do with the 787-10 at Paris). So those agreements will be converted to purchase contracts just as they were with the 787-10.



Quoting chiad (Reply 168):
But I think Qatar Airways has signed a letter of intent for 50 777Xs.
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 169):
Qatar is not clear indeed, a LOI can be a combination of firm orders and options.

I expect they all 50 will be converted to purchase contracts.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 174, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16122 times:

Taking the Etihad A320neo and Flydubai B737 Max order into account, the NEO/MAX market share in this region is now about 50:50.

http://s23.postimg.org/u3d3oobgb/neo1.png

[Edited 2013-11-17 04:13:25]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13218 posts, RR: 36
Reply 175, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15875 times:

Etihad already made an engine selection for its A320neo order.

http://www.cfmaeroengines.com/press/...-2-8-billion-leap-engine-order/724



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 176, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15379 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 173):
The 777X was not formally launched until today, so LH, EK, QR and EY had to sign agreements to buy (just as