9v-spk From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 6 Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1592 times:
Don't think about it!When?When they finally get a buyer or the government will interrcept!But i guess that'd be....not even a single chance.Aus government isn't that rich to save Ansett...and Ansett has to much liabilities!
So ...don't bother to think about when Ansett will fly again.Maybe you should think about...who or what is gonna make Ansett Fly again!
9v-spk From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1576 times:
Yeh...hope so..as an Australian i don't want to see Qantas acting as the boss in Australian Aviation and as a Star Alliance member i don't want to see Ansett quit!Actually my colleagues were doing some promotions of Ansett in Hong Kong but now...all dumped!
Actually the 744 belongs to Singapore Airlines i suppose!You know...would they still be able to afford the fee of lending the aircrafts?Or they would be returned to SIA soon?
9v-spk From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1570 times:
Re: United Airline
I think they won't fly to Europe for the time if they operate again,as they can't even handle her own dosmetic flights and interior problems!Just say...if they could handle everything in the right way,they won't need to get themselves closed rite?And also she's a star alliance member!And so will it be a bit useless to start routes to Europe by ordering new planes and fly to Europe i think.Because i guess for the time-being,most of the planes from Aus to Europe will take a stop at Singapore,for example Qantas,British.And although Ansett has no flights to Singapore,it's really relying deeply on SQ actually,as both are Star Alliance members,and actually,when AN wasn't closed down yet,most of the flights from SIN to AUS and AUS to SIN were codeshare services between AN,LH and SQ,just that SQ provides the aircraft.
So i think Ansett would strengthen its positions in Aus if they come back to service,recover the market lost to Qantas and Virgin Blue.As you mentioned,i think they'd re-lease the planes,and maybe start flights within Asia,then to Europe!So i guess they'd be re-leasing more and more SQ's 744 as it was SQ technical staff who handled to Ansett technical staff of how to repair the 744 and the system,everything of the 744 when AN withdrawn the 743 and replace with the 744!
ZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5131 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1563 times:
If Ansett flies again which I certainly hope it will! They will not be buying any new 744's or any aircraft for a while until they reestablish themselves as a leading carrier. In the mean time anyone know where the 2 744's are right now? VH-ANA was in Sydney wasn't it how about ANB?
Ceilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1551 times:
The chances of Ansett Australia flying again are nil to nonexistent I'm afraid. Ansett International is a different matter, but I fear that in the current climate - with no one interested in investing in airlines at all - the chances of anyone buying them out are also slim.
Lutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 737 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1551 times:
AN is a dead airline. It is no more. It has kicked the bucket. It has expired. It has gone to the happy hunting grounds. It has passed over to the other side. It is six foot under. It is pushing up the daisies. It is wormfood. It has joined its ancestors. It is playing with the angels.
9v-spk From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 1646 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1545 times:
Nah...it's impossible.You have to know it's very very hard for an airline which is not based in Hong Kong or Europe to fly to Europe...hardly get and permission.And not even mentioning the U.S,like Qantas!They ain't got the experience to fly such international routes!
Afterall...we should wait for it to resume service,THEN we could talk about the int'l services after they've resumed Dosmetic ones...IF they do.
The Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1415 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1527 times:
Your hopes do not reflect the financial state of Ansett at the current time. You should stop posting topics with hopes that Ansett will fly soon, especially internationally.
"There are plans to order the B747-400/400ER for routes to Europe and the USA"
This is the most ridiculous crapola I've EVER heard. AN is deep in debt, it's very close to liquidation, it's in administration, it has virtually no assets, its credit rating must be under the floor, the Australian govt won't TOUCH it, and yet you say they want to order the B747-400 which costs upwards of $200 million a piece!!! Give me a break!!!!????
Wirraway From Australia, joined Mar 2001, 1321 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1521 times:
Just seen Anderson on this mornings "Today", he says
the govt is seriously looking at the administrators
Ansett Mk11 plan, where they would start flying with
10 A-320s, with 1500 Ansett staff.
Plan to get Ansett Mark II airborne
By GEOFF EASDOWN and IAN ROYALL
THE plan to rescue Ansett hinges on the Howard Government publicly endorsing the proposed new Mark II carrier.
The Herald Sun has learned that company administrators Mark Mentha and Mark Korda are seeking a vote of confidence from Canberra.
Sources said last night that the two insolvency partners believe that some form of display from the Government was essential to win back the support of air travellers.
Mr Mentha and Mr Korda put their new Mark II plan to the Government last night after a plan to lease 10 jets to Qantas fell over after almost two weeks of negotiations.
What they have is an arrangement where passengers would be guaranteed the cost of their fares if their aircraft didn't fly.
The arrangement could involve a government supervised trust fund into which were deposited all advance ticket payments.
This strategy is seen as the best way to win back public confidence.
Sources said the new Mark II carrier must find a way to win the trust of travellers who were burnt over the grounding of Ansett's 767 jets last Easter and the recent collapse.
The new carrier would be configured solely around Ansett's fleet of A-320 Airbus aircraft.
These are the newest and most economical in the fleet. Putting them back in the air involves obtaining approval from myriad lease companies and banks.
No cash or any form of indemnity backing will be required from the Federal Government.
The administrators are not seeking rebates on landing fees or navigation charges.
Insurance and airworthiness approvals also are already in place.
At least 10 of the aircraft could, if needed, be flying today.
The administrators say they have the assets to fund their go-alone strategy to get a new Ansett Mark II flying trunk route services.
Various models of how the new airline would be configured are still being prepared by existing Ansett management under supervision from the joint administrators.
One of the plans involves putting five aircraft into the air which would be expected to generate
$3 million to $4 million a week in revenue.
On this arrangement a new and much scaled down operation would be profitable, forecasts are believed to show.
A source said: "When we have got a billion dollars worth of assets out there, that can be compared to about $12 in $1000.
"It is not the biggest issue in the world to give it a chance to get the planes up and running while the administrators find a buyer."
AIR New Zealand chair man Jim Farmer last night again denied allegations his airline had stripped cash and assets from Ansett before it went into voluntary administration.
"We have investigated each and every allegation and they are completely without foundation," Dr Farmer said.
Sccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5242 posts, RR: 27 Reply 19, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1508 times:
Forgive me for seeming dense (an appearance that further acquaintance would, no doubt, confirm), but given the market in which AN is located, it would seem a perfect candidate for a successful reorganization (at least as they are done here in the US).
AN have a huge built-in market, lots of valuable brand equity as a result of its history of good service, and as-yet-unsated demand. These are contingent, of course, upon fast and appropriate action to restore service.
What AN has had against it has been abysmal (and perhaps corrupt) management, and catastrophically-high operational costs. I'll not fall into the trap of simply blaming the unions for the high costs because (while I am no big fan of many unions) management of the 'line is the ultimate responsibility of its Directors and Officers, and that responsibility includes capable management of organized labor and its demands. If the labor contracts leave the airline with costs which are too high to allow the airline to continue its very existence, well then, the management have failed, twice- they failed to negotiate contracts with tolerable cost of operation, and they failed to communicate with the union's negotiating teams why less costly / more flexible contract terms are in the union rank and files' best long-term interests. But I digress.
Here in the USA, bankruptcy can allow the relief from burdensome debt and contractual obligations (including, where an appropriate showing is made, bad collective bargaining agreements).
AN should be able to re-start in a smaller and less-grandiose iteration, serving the vital and well-traveled trunk routes; you'll find that aircraft lessors will jump at any chance to convert these non-performing, ground-bound aircraft assets into revenue-producers again, and the union management (if presented with a rational and well-documented plan providing for the long-term good of its members) should assist in success.
And, by the way, you should all concurrently hope for immediate and effective resolution to AirNZ's problems, to allow it to feed a steady stream of international pax into AN's system.
Then, you can worry about the really important things, like: will AN have PTV's in the fleet of dozens of 744's that they will order to serve the non-stop ORD-ADL market.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
Aussie_ From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1766 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1506 times:
My prediction is an Ansett restart with 10 planes, gradually increased to 20 A320s.
Then, lo and behold, SQ will arrive, offering to buy the new, profitable organisation and slowly build Ansett up again, but not too much, based on a core of the A320 family.
Interesting points yet to be resolved:
- relationship of the AN regional Airlines under this plan
- AN international services - do they stay or go - if they stay what planes do they use?
- do GR members keep their points, do GW members keep their membership?
The Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1415 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1498 times:
Concentrate on AN domestic first. Don't think about International yet.
The A320's will be good. In fact, in Australia, there may never be a better time to start again. Fuel prices have dipped to a 2 year low, aircraft ordered have been cancelled, lessors are having planes returned by US airlines and other airlines with huge exposure to the US market and there is considerable sympathy to the AN condition amongst the general public here in Australia.
Go Ansett! Use this great time to start afresh and not allow an under-capitalized, regional player half your size to buy you out and squeeze you dry.
The problem I see here is that AN is still technically owned by AirNZ is it not?
Sccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5242 posts, RR: 27 Reply 23, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1489 times:
If AN cannot reduce its staff/aircraft ratio, then no retoration of service will succeed.
Robert Gottliebsen has a fine column on AN's chances; I've taken the liberty of reprinting it below:
Ansett's demise offers chance of rebirth
By Robert Gottliebsen
THE proposed rescue of Ansett is likely to be a wake up for thousands of Australian businesses. In one amazing stroke, the new Ansett – if it can be called that – could cast out all the sins of the old Ansett and make Qantas at least take notice.
Ansett's sins were many.
It had work practices that reflected poor management, too many aircraft types, a seat configuration in aircraft that did not maximise returns, a shareholder that would have been better off running a country pub (my apologies to country publicans) and it was loaded with borrowings from bankers who had never checked the calibre of the management.
In other words, Virgin's Richard Branson was right – this was an operation that needed to start again.
But before September 11, starting again was difficult because you had to obtain the right aircraft and they were expensive.
The world is awash with aircraft and Boeing will almost give aircraft to you – they certainly earn no money sitting idle on the ground. Ansett aircraft are mostly leased and some are in bits in maintenance sheds.
The groups currently leasing them will simply have to take them away because most Ansett aircraft are not appropriate for a modern airline.
At present, all overseas airlines are being battered y plunging demand, so there is a chance for a highly profitable airline to emerge with the backing of someone like Lindsay Fox and the industry superannuation funds.
There is a galaxy of customer base ideas being canvassed because the Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane route is one of the busiest in the world and Ansett still has a valuable customer base. The pool of skills in the former Ansett staff adds to the opportunity.
The letter from former Ansett staff member Andrew Jefferies – The Australian, September 24 – shows the better Ansett people were frustrated by some of the work practices that had been negotiated.
Apart from its customer base, the most valuable assets of Ansett are its systems and the fantastic facilities it has at all major airports.
It is always possible that an overseas airline will move in and take advantage of this opportunity while Virgin and Qantas are hoping to fill any gap before a third force emerges.
Because all overseas airlines are being battered, Australia is not high on the agenda. The proposed rescue of Ansett might shake many Australian businesses.
There is a lot of money to be made by an airline with the best equipment, efficient work practices and competitive prices.
Too many of our businesses have old equipment that they have patched up and kept going. Although the dollar makes replacement expensive, business survival and prosperity will come from having the right equipment and fair, but modern, work practices.
A great many enterprises have done what Ansett did and allowed huge retrenchment benefits to be written into their labour contracts. That means they can't shed staff and don't have the flexibility to cope with the changing environment.
With Ansett, the owner, Air New Zealand, had lost its Ansett investment long before Ansett went into administration. Directors were clearly trading while Air NZ was technically insolvent but they were relying on the promise of new capital to continue to operate.
The real equity owners of the Ansett business were the employees and their retrenchment payments.
With John Howard now planning to make these retrenchment benefits rank ahead of secured creditors, the ownership position of employees with big retrenchment benefits is being confirmed. As pointed out on September 24, if that legislation is to made retrospective, it will send a great many businesses to the wall. These issues were never faced at Air NZ and Ansett.
Finally, one Ansett asset that appears to have been moulded into shape is its maintenance operation. Here Ansett enjoyed better work practices than Qantas. The airline shutdowns last March forced it to improve its systems and here, at least, there is a chance to make that a really top national asset. Meanwhile spare a thought for Ansett suppliers that are bleeding.
Robert Gottliebsen writes daily for The Australian and hosts Business Daily on Sky News channel at 8.30pm and 11.30pm
Website: www.theaustralian.com.au/business and click on message board.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...