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Delta Orders A330s, A321s  
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 14809 posts, RR: 42
Posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 37393 times:

Delta ordered 30 A321s and 10 A330-300s today. Many of the A321s will be built in Mobile, Alabama.

> A321s to have CFM56 engines
> A330s to have GE engines
> The A330s ordered are the new 242-ton version


Press release:

[Edited 2013-09-04 06:42:19]

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
270 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 13656 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 37461 times:


Interesting to see CFMs on the A321s - almost everyone goes IAG on A321...

[Edited 2013-09-04 06:39:26]

Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 37347 times:

I bet DL got them for a nice low price.

When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2822 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 37287 times:

Pretty good order!

Congrats to DL and Airbus.   

View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2912 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 37223 times:

For some reason I see a certain A.netter not being happy about this....  

Congrats to Delta and Airbus!

Shoot True, Never Miss...
User currently offlinerafflesking From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 37128 times:

30 frames is hardly a subfleet, but interesting to see how the A321s fit in with the 100 739s Delta is about to start receiving.

Anybody know if the A333s are for capacity growth or to replace older 763s?

User currently offlineFlyingAY From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 37046 times:

Funny how the rumor in May was spot on (that thread is a fun read as well):
RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330 (by Triple7Lr May 25 2013 in Civil Aviation)

User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36998 times:

Guess the 321 painting at ATL thread starter a few months ago was right!

Kudos on the scoop!

When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1839 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36920 times:
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Based on the F20 layout for the 321's, it's looking more realistic for the rumored 757 reconfiguration down to F20 from F22-F26.

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 14809 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36741 times:

From the press release:

The 10 A330-300 aircraft will augment Delta's existing fleet of 32 A330s. The first A330 delivery is scheduled for spring of 2015, with three additional airplanes scheduled for that year, four in 2016, and the final two in 2017.

Delta will be the first airline to operate the enhanced 242-metric ton A330-300, which offers additional payload capacity and range. Delta will use the aircraft's versatility to optimize its Pacific and Atlantic networks.

The A330 will feature 34 full flat-bed seats with direct aisle access in BusinessElite, 32 extra-legroom seats in Economy Comfort and 227 Economy seats. The international aircraft will feature in-flight Wi-Fi and industry leading in-flight entertainment with a library of more than 1,000 on-demand options, as well as standard 110v power, modern interiors with LED lighting, and extra-capacity overhead bins.

And the A321s:

The 30 A321s will expand Delta's existing fleet of 126 A320-family domestic aircraft. Delta's first three A321s are scheduled for delivery in the first quarter of 2016, with 12 more due in that year. The remaining 15 jets are scheduled for 2017.

The Airbus A321 will have 20 First Class seats, 22 extra-legroom seats in Economy Comfort and 148 seats in the Economy cabin. Every A321 will feature in-flight Wi-Fi, industry leading in-flight entertainment with live satellite TV and on-demand options, and standard 110v power. The A321 will also offer Economy cabin seats that are among the widest in the industry.


[Edited 2013-09-04 06:43:37]

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1145 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36555 times:

Congrats to Delta and Airbus.

I wonder will the A321 be deployed on some of Delta's longest transcontinental routes perhaps because as some have suggested in other threads the current 739 struggles at certain times of the year to make these long nonstop flights? Perhaps the A321 is a better fit on certain transcon flights year around?

User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 4030 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36554 times:

Nice order.
The A330's improvements are paying off, and the A321 is nicely landing itself in the spot where the 757 used to be.
I suppose the A330s will be replacing some 763s. Would they be used mostly on domestic routes?

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
I bet DL got them for a nice low price.

Second post... An improvement, I suppose.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 5294 posts, RR: 40
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36548 times:
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Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 4):
Congrats to Delta and Airbus!

And to GE and CFM.  . But congrats are indeed in place. Good news for all parties involved.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 4):
For some reason I see a certain A.netter not being happy about this....  

Luckily we as A-netters do not make the real decisions in the real world.  .

User currently offlinewilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36460 times:

Now we see why DL is beginning to park the 757s in the desert.

User currently offlinewilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36278 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
I bet DL got them for a nice low price.

From the press release-

"This Airbus agreement is another opportunistic fleet transaction for Delta in which we acquire economically efficient, proven-technology aircraft," said Richard Anderson, Delta's chief executive officer. "These A330s and A321s will provide tremendous flexibility for Delta to optimally manage our capacity over the next five years while further improving the flight experience for our customers and returns for our shareholders.

"Disciplined capital deployment is a cornerstone of Delta's comprehensive financial plan," said Paul Jacobson, Delta's chief financial officer. "These Airbus aircraft will generate free cash flow and improve our return on invested capital from the time they enter service."

Delta proves you do not have buy the latest and greatest model to make money. Yeah Delta got a good deal.

User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1839 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36276 times:
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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
I bet DL got them for a nice low price.

Of course.

What I'm curious about is whether this Airbus deal includes a couple of other elements:

1) Taking more CRJ-200's off Delta's hands. DL recently downgraded their expected fleet total for the CR2 and it was widely believed they would use this order to get those extra frames taken from their hands.

2) Is there a life extension project now for the early build 320's? Richard was asking Airbus to come up with a serviceable cycle extension for the 320's delivered to NWA starting in 89 (up through ships 3250). Last I was told was Airbus was hesitant on this and RA might try to tie the order to this.

User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36269 times:

Congrats to DL and Airbus.

Will there be a follow up order for A321 NEO from Delta in the near future as well, or did DL just shop for the much cheaper A321 CEO slots available??

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 5294 posts, RR: 40
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36182 times:
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Question: how many A320-ceo slots are still left with this order?

BTW: Nice to see that many of the A321 for Delta will be build in Mobile, AL.  

User currently offlinesancho99504 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 580 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36100 times:

I said a long time ago that Delta wasn't done with Airbus. It is good to see them utilize both Boeing and Airbus for their ever growing needs. While I fully expected the Airbus order to be A32XNEO's and A350XWB, this is a pleasant surprise. I think with the larger cabin of the A320 family, I think we should expect a follow on order in the future once a good price/deal can be had with Airbus, you will see A321NEO's configured with their premium domestic product to run JFK-SFO/LAX/SEA. I can see DL maybe growing their premium offering by adding that service LAX-IAD/BOS/ORD. Maybe even on the ATL rotations that aren't on international configured widebodies. IMHO, the A321 is a better 757 replacement than the 737-900. I do see the 737-900 being a better fit for 757 routes like ATL-MCO/MSY/MIA/FLL/RSW/PBI/TPA, as the 737 is definitely a bit lighter than the A320 family.

kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 14809 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36097 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
Interesting to see CFMs on the A321s - almost everyone goes IAG on A321...

More interesting that they didn't go for the A321neo.

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
User currently onlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1178 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36023 times:

With DL(NW) being the early launch customer, they certainly could have have 789's delivered in the 2015-2017 range. Why defer the a/c you have a deposit on and that has newer technology vs. ordering the A330?

Interesting that DL is using the A321 / B739 combo vs. one or the other like UA (B739) or AA (A321). There must be a big enough difference in performance to have both contrary to the other Big 3.

User currently offlinewilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 35940 times:

Was trying to post pic, but would paste on reply so here is a link to a A321 pic.


[Edited 2013-09-04 07:00:27]

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 14809 posts, RR: 42
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 35852 times:

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 17):
Question: how many A320-ceo slots are still left with this order?

Last time I checked the number was 100, but that's without the Kingfisher order for 40 A320s (which will be canceled).

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 4030 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 35755 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):
More interesting that they didn't go for the A321neo.

Mobile isn't due to start delivering aircrafts before 2016. Does that mean that mobile will assemble late CEOs, or will it assemble both CEOs and NEOs?

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1879 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 35757 times:

Congrats DL and Airbus!

Now that's pretty much every US legacy carrier with Airbus aircraft on order:


Next Flights: LHR-VIE (320), VIE-HAM (320), HAM-LHR (320), LGW-NAP (320), CTA-STR (320), STR-LHR (320)
25 Post contains images RWA380 : I see DL using them against AA 321s JFK-LAX, JFK-SFO, JFK-SEA, and maybe JFK-PDX or JFK-SAN. Just a guess on my part, but it will come down to hard/s
26 Post contains images 817Dreamliiner : here you go:
27 Post contains images EPA001 : OK. Thanks for the numbers. Anyway, the available number of slots for ceo-A320's is getting quite small now. [Edited 2013-09-04 07:07:14]
28 codc10 : The A330 is an excellent airplane and will provide much-needed lift to the Pacific. The 763ER is a suboptimal machine for transpacific ops, and the hi
29 Flighty : A totally in-character and unsurprising order! A signal DL wants to maintain & strengthen the status quo... Maybe a subfleet in context of 120+ A3
30 MaverickM11 : Fleet commonality is often overrated on here, but DL's fleet seems to be getting exponentially complex
31 vfw614 : As they are also adding 717s and MD90s at a time when other airlines are dropping them like hot potatoes, they seem to have a different philosophy wh
32 vinniewinnie : Why is that? Wow well that is definitely surprising! Reading A.net you become indoctrinated in the thinking that Delta only buys Boeing and has a spe
33 xjramper : While that is always a possibility, the A321s are slated for a delivery start date in 2016. I think DL is trying to align these A321s with the B739.
34 mcogator : That is an extremely fun read. So do pilot rumors now move up the list of rumors that could possibly be true?
35 Post contains images PM : Fascinating. And how sweet after the usual suspects queued up in various threads to rubbish the idea that Delta was buying A321s or that they'd buy mo
36 KarelXWB : Mobile will assemble both in the beginning because there is a transition period CEO -> NEO between 2015 and 2018. This applies to all A320 plants,
37 goldenstate : No one can predict the future, but I think it is reasonable to assume that Delta's long term narrowbody fleet needs are sufficiently large to justify
38 enilria : I agree nearly all of these will replace 757s.
39 msp747 : The proven technology line shows DL is more interested in having fuel efficiency at a great price instead of paying a big price for the most fuel eff
40 Post contains images airbazar : Boy, it would be fun to go back and quote some of the comments on that page
41 seabosdca : The A333 order makes a ton of sense. DL has a hole in its widebody fleet which is getting increasingly painful as it starts more transpacific services
42 atnight : Excellent News! Congrats to Delta and Airbus.... I also think this is a smart order... Delta get some of the best current aircraft available, at a ver
43 kgaiflyer : Many of these urban legends date back to the first 739A deliveries in 2001. AS tried to deploy them on their now defunct SEA-IAD route. Now they fly
44 luckyone : Is it? Both new additions in the 739ER and the A321 are basically the same aircraft from a pilot and systems perspective that they already have. The
45 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Here's a render: You can download a high-res version here: http://www.airbus.com/typo3conf/ext/...abama_3D_aerial_view.jpg&mode=save
46 awacsooner : Count me as one of them, as I am highly disappointed to see the direction they're headed fleet-wise. Oh well... I really think Boeing shot themselves
47 n7371f : Referring to F20 -- 20 first class seats, not 20 ships. Yes, the AAR contract is widely viewed in the industry as Delta.
48 msp747 : How do you figure? I see a lot of the 757's leaving, but they will still have a large fleet, even after these new planes come on board. Why else woul
49 airbazar : I don't expect to see a NEO in DL's fleet any time soon for the following reasons: TATL: DL doesn't need them as they have a very good JV for TATL op
50 mcogator : It's great that this board doesn't allow you to go back and delete your own old posts. So most likely we will be seeing these in MCO.
51 bennett123 : Are the A321's CEO, NEO or a mixture?.
52 msp747 : I think that's going a bit too far. Do your really think DL would park its 772's in the desert while keeping its 763's flying? DL is trying to ramp u
53 MIflyer12 : I don't, not with Delta's announced 20F domestic config for the 321s. The DL 321 isn't going to be a premium transcon config like AA is ready to roll
54 Post contains images AM777LR : Delta and Airbus will have a long relationship, hopefully we can see an A350 in Delta colors! Just as they didn't hold off for the 737MAX. I could se
55 kgaiflyer : Whoa! So that's what's going on up the street from MOB. I had been led to believe all Airbus activity would be centered around Port of Huntsville.
56 KarelXWB : The order is all CEO.
57 luckyone : Consistent product for the passengers. Between the 739ER and now the A321 order, the 757s have an almost 1 for 1 replacement. My reasoning is by the
58 francoflier : Karel, you seem to be in the know, and sorry to reiterate a question I posted earlier, but this thread is going a bit fast...: Deliveries aren't due
59 awacsooner : Oh God, I sincerely hope not, that is one UGLY plane! Or someone missed the bus on the Boeing/Airbus tanker deal.
60 yellowtail : I hope we see some of the 321s on LAX-C.America.....like LAX-GUA and on routes like ATL-GRU
61 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : I also found this picture: For the current status of the plant, check this press release: http://www.airbus.com/company/americ...y-facility-is-ready-
62 msp747 : Sorry, but your post talked about eliminating a pilot group. Obviously to do that, you'd have to eliminate ALL of a certain fleet, not most of it. I
63 luckyone : Eventually yes. My post was in reference to Delta's fleet being complicated. In the short term there will indeed be quite a few types flying. In the
64 jetlanta : The 739 cuts it just fine. At least Delta thinks so. 100 orders on the way. This Airbus order has everything to do with the economics of the DEAL. De
65 MountainFlyer : Congrats to Airbus and Delta! It looks like my chances of flying on an A321 just increased greatly. I can't wait to see them! On another note, is ther
66 airbazar : Yes. The 763 is a much better plane for DL. There's a reason why they only have 18 772's compared with 74 763's. I predict that the 763 will be in th
67 BrianDromey : Perhaps Boeing did not feel the need to discount the few remaining NG slots when DL is already locked into 100 739ER units. Boeing may feel those slo
68 Post contains images sankaps : Only those who refused to accept the new reality continued to believe that. As I had pointed out in several threads earlier, DL' CEO and Head of Flee
69 seabosdca : I'm surprised that would come before one more narrowbody order, for MD-88 replacement.
70 mayor : It states, this, in the news release: "Delta will use the aircraft's versatility to optimize its Pacific and Atlantic networks." I guess this makes t
71 deltairlines : The 753s are all relatively young (built in 2002-03), so they have at least another 15 years of life in them. No need to be thinking about replacemen
72 MEA-707 : I actually expect them to buy a second hand fleet of about 20 77Ws around 2020 when say EK or SQ withdraw them to replace the 744s.
73 Prost : By Delta purchasing planes in smaller tranches versus large mega orders have a benefit? American got a lot of press about fleet renewal with their Air
74 flyabr : Couple things: Are the days of BIG airlines relying on ONE framer over?? Also, find it interesting that they are switching to GE for the A333s. Is PW
75 milesrich : I would not be a bit surprised to see some deal to sell 757s to FedEx or UPS tied to the A321 deliveries.
76 msp747 : That may be the case, but we are talking about something that is 7 years out. The 772ER won't be leaving the DL fleet any time soon, and the 772LR wi
77 questions : Re the 20 First seats on the A321, will DL: 1) have a mixed cabin between doors 1L/R and 2L/R, similar to the original configuration on the 752? 2) or
78 Post contains images KarelXWB : Sharklets are part of the deal.
79 817Dreamliiner : Yes they will Judging by the rendering.
80 flyabr : After the 10 new A333s are delivered...will Delta have the largest A330 fleet in the world??
81 EPA001 : I was under the impression that all ceo's delivered from 2014 or so on would be equipped with the shark lets. Or do customers still have a choice reg
82 deltairlines : The press release from DL mentioned sharklets.
83 mayor : Purely coincidental. Those 18 787s were ordered by NW, not DL.
84 CONTACREW : Probably going to have the F cabin between L1/R1 doors up until the beginning of L2/R2 doors. Probably going to use the front cabin as first class. W
85 ORDBOSEWR : This order helps prove a few points to me: 1st - commonality is a huge benefit. The A319 and A32X commonality makes this easy and no need for a sub-fl
86 aa777223 : He showed up before I had the chance, but I'll bite anyway: Not to upset PM, but isn't RR (speaking in generalities, of course) the preferred engine
87 mhockey31091 : So sad to see a plan being put in place to replace the 757's. I've flown them 5-6 times a week over the last couple years and loved every minute of th
88 ItalianFlyer : There was a thread appox a month ago about a rumor that DL was looking at second hand 330-200s. I added that there was another rumor floating around t
89 Post contains images vinniewinnie : Interesting to read the rumor thead (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5773326) - Lot's of talk about A332, comparat
90 PM : No. They'll have 42. Cathay, Air China and probably China Eastern will have larger fleets.
91 sankaps : In the post 1980s world, did those days really exist except for one or two big airlines? In other words, those days were over one generation ago!
92 Post contains images PW100 : You forgot to mention that DL first perference was off course 15+ year old airframes . . . Can't wait for a certain poster to chime in, and assure us
93 A380Heavy : I'm really pleased to see the A330 still selling, it's a terrific looking aeroplane and clearly a very good aeroplane too despite how long it's been i
94 airbazar : My believe is that the 772's will all be replaced by 787's in less than a decade. If that is true, a small subfleet of 77W's makes absolutely no sens
95 UALWN : That certain poster actually did chime in. He wrote, apparently in all seriousness, that the only explanation was an Airbus bribe. Unfortunately (but
96 msp747 : If that's the case, then it would be a complete change of course for DL. The purchasing of older frames and "tried and trued" models shows that they
97 817Dreamliiner : Well, its not listed on Boeing's price list anymore, I guess he hasn't seen it yet. You probably missed his posts before they got deleted, He didn't
98 1337Delta764 : Even with this order, I still expect that once UA retires its 764ERs DL will pick them up. If DL is doing so with the MD-90 and 717, UA's 764ERs are
99 Stitch : DL knows the A330 family and the new 242t A330-300 models likely give them the range for TPAC missions from MSP and DTW and TATL operations from LAX
100 CONTACREW : And what makes you think that UA is retiring the 764 or that DL will pick them up? UA just finished the reconfiguration of it's 16 764s and expect th
101 1337Delta764 : It doesn't matter if the 763ER is the bulk of DL's fleet; the 764ERs are newer and have a significantly lower CASM, therefore they will be the last 7
102 Post contains links sankaps : Delta CEO Richard Anderson quoted in this news report as saying back in May that Delta would wait for the upcoming generation of jets designed with up
103 United1 : You know in 2025/2026 if DL really wants 25 year old 764s I am sure that UA won't care if DL wants to buy them from UA....but now back to reality. I'
104 seabosdca : I tend to agree, but I think there is room for an A350-1000 order at the top end as well. And if they order A350-1000s, then that throws the middle o
105 PHX787 : Very interesting news, and a plus to see the 321s built in Mobile! I wonder what they're going to replace with these 330s....early build 67s? How many
106 sankaps : You may well be right, but the "Numbers guys" will also consider expected dispatch reliability and downtime risks of a new type in their calculations
107 atnight : Thank you very much KarelXWB... when is the plant suppose to be finished?
108 sankaps : I understand that there were some historical contractual / settlement issues that NWA had with Pratt (but in Pratt's favour) that made it advantageou
109 aa777223 : I had always believed the same thing. Given DLs penchant for buying older planes and flying the wings off of them, I agree that if another major carr
110 Mir : Doubtful - that was probably just coincidence. Yes, though probably (b) more than (a). Delta needs more 772ER-type aircraft, and the fact of the matt
111 1337Delta764 : DL actually flies its 764ERs to higher-yielding markets than it does for the A330, since the 764ERs have a higher J to Y ratio. There is no way DL wo
112 asaad11 : Will the new A321 be equipped with winglets?
113 EPA001 : Yes.
114 Prost : My understanding the A321 are replacing domestic capacity, but the A330s are for International growth. Delta has been able to source aircraft for the
115 mayor : Well, DL WAS trying for a simplified (mostly Boeing) fleet as recently as the late 80s, early 90s, IIRC.
116 bobnwa : Well as the saying goes, it's not over till the fat lady sings. In this case the fat lady has sung and Delta bought what it thought was the better ai
117 Post contains images super80 : No!!!!!!! DL should have order more 764s!!!!. Just Kidding! Nice order by DL. Is DL the only carrier currently have planes made by DC/MD/Boeing/Airbus
118 aa777223 : Well, but my whole point was about UA, considering your implication was that UA would retire their 764s before DL and sell them to them. UA uses the
119 Prost : I found this regarding Pratts on the A330 vis a vis with the NWA bankruptcy: Northwest got approval for two financing deals Thursday that will help th
120 Post contains images United1 : FedEx as well The 333 is certainly a much more capable aircraft than the 764 in terms of payload and range.
121 1337Delta764 : But is in a different capacity class than the 764ER. Otherwise, DL would have gone for the A332.
122 Mir : This order wasn't about replacing the 764 (which, despite being a generally inferior plane to the 332, works out for what DL needs it to do), it's pr
123 United1 : But that's the point the 333HGW (or whatever they are calling it) can fly roughly the same missions that the 332 can with more capacity both above an
124 Stitch : Well BA has now proven that operating the A350-1000 along with multiple models of the 787 is a viable option and if Boeing is not careful, NH and/or
125 1337Delta764 : One thing to wonder: where in DL's payscales will the A321 rank? Will it be paid the same as DL's 739ER payscale, higher, or lower? (The 739ER payscal
126 MountainFlyer : I'm with those who believe DL will not be converting any orders to newer models. With the exception of the 772LR, DL has been very conservative on or
127 1337Delta764 : I didn't start it. Someone mentioned that DL will replace that DL will replace its 764ERs with A330s, and another user mentioned that DL should dump
128 MountainFlyer : Good question. It seems the 737, all models, land higher on the DL payscale than does the A319/320. Given the A321 will have 10 more seats than the 7
129 Post contains images lightsaber : I'm going to go mope in a corner. Lightsaber
130 Transpac787 : Payscale negotiations are done on the basis of aircraft weight, not capacity. Otherwise the A333 (293 total seats) would be paid more than the 777 (2
131 1337Delta764 : The A333 is paid the same as the A332 and 764ER. Note that DL has reserved a 787 payscale as well, which is between the 764/A330 and 777.
132 columba : SAS comes to my mind as well and Lufthansa if you count the MD 11 freighters. It is great to see the A321 catching up especially in the US. For years
133 Transpac787 : And the current A333 and A332 fleets weigh nearly the same, proving my original point... Same for the 787, as the 789 will weigh more than any A330 m
134 sankaps : I think this penchant is somewhat overstated. Delta (and NWA prior to that) bought used / older planes mostly in cases where they were no longer in p
135 1337Delta764 : No, it is because of the placement of the exits on the 764ER. FYI, the 764ERs have heavier non-slimline Weber 5150 Y seats and a heavier IFE system t
136 Post contains images sankaps : The entertainment begins again!
137 sankaps : IF that is the case (it may be one factor, but there are workarounds for it), that limits its deployment options and usefulness for int'l long haul,
138 sankaps : If you are referring to refurbs, the 764s may not get a second round, may not be cost effective for the limited time they likely have in the fleet re
139 1337Delta764 : Not it doesn't, since DL can make more money by the fare premium generated by the larger J cabin on high-yield routes. I was referring to interior mo
140 sankaps : This is fun! Don't you think DL could make even more money putting similar or even larger J-cabins in the A333s if they wanted to on those routes? Th
141 1337Delta764 : What makes you think DL will get rid of the 764ERs prematurely? They serve a legitimate purpose in DL's fleet, and DL will not let them go to waste j
142 Post contains images PHX787 : As someone who grew up in Cincinnati, I'm overjoyed at the choice of GE (they build them near my high school)
143 Post contains images sankaps : A small sub-fleet inherited from the "old Delta" that can only be used in a niche role. Not a great CV to be held on for too long, especially with up
144 mayor : This is true......not counting the a/c acquired in the NW or WA mergers, the only a/c that DL has bought, used, are a portion of the L-1011s, MD-90s
145 1337Delta764 : If that is your reasoning, than you got nothing. The 764ER makes money for DL on every route it flies, and DL would not give up this flexibility of u
146 KarelXWB : Those A330s delivered from 2015 will likely stay in the fleet for 10 to 15 years; hardly to believe that Delta would keep the 764ER's until 2030.
147 1337Delta764 : Perhaps not until 2030, but at least until 2025. There is no way DL will get rid of them before 2020 (REGARDLESS of what excuse Airbus fans try to fa
148 Prost : Honestly, in the regards to how long DL keeps the 764s, I'm in agreement with 1337 Delta764. They'll fly them until there is no life left in them. As
149 sankaps : The larger J cabin can be installed in any other aircraft as well, it is not a design feature of the 764. As stated before, if anything it is a desig
150 Post contains images XFSUgimpLB41X : I thought this was just a silly rumor and we were going to go Boeing no matter what? The 321 seats 10 more than the 739 and has a gross weight 20,000
151 seabosdca : Gotta disagree here. The number of parts on the 764 that are not shared with the 763 or the 772 is small enough not to matter. Boeing will keep suppo
152 Post contains images sankaps : I love it, a polygraph for having an opinion!
153 1337Delta764 : Not an opinion, but a blatant lie that you know is not true, since there is no way DL will get rid of its 764ERs prematurely no matter what you say.[
154 sankaps : You make a good point, the lack of marketability of the 764 might actually be the reason they are held on for longer than they otherwise would be. Ev
155 Post contains images sankaps : Just like we knew they were not going to order more 330s and the 321, huh? How can anyone be accused of lying for making a prediction about something
156 MSPNWA : Congrats to both parties! However I do wish the order was for next generation models. I think DL would be better off in the long-run. I'm not too surp
157 1337Delta764 : Because it is something that WILL NOT HAPPEN under any circumstance. This seems to be another Mayan calendar apocalypse scam in the making.
158 Post contains links KarelXWB : Here, Airbus finally uploaded it's own press release: http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...airbus-with-order-for-40-aircraft/
159 Post contains images Stitch : Can a moderator change the thread title to reflect the correct topic, as this thread is about the 767-400ER at Delta and the title confuses me. As sea
160 seabosdca : The 242 t A333, unlike the current version, will be a 12+ hour airplane. That MTOW increase is why this is an A333 order rather than an A332 order.
161 XFSUgimpLB41X : The 333's that were bought in this order are IGW. They are over 12 hour aircraft and capable of transpac ops. I assume they have the 332 center fuel
162 817Dreamliiner : And how are you so sure it will not happen?? Where's your source?
163 aa777223 : I'm going to respectfully offer a little different point. Let's look at DLs fleet. A32Xs - These are NW birds, and generally speaking are pretty earl
164 columba : DL will start to retire their 767-400s as soon as they have no use for them anymore. Which will probably be once the first 787s are going to be deliv
165 Post contains images AirMailer : sankaps, You've done a wonderful job of setting off 1337Delta764, well done. but I think you're really think y'all are getting too far off topic. Now
166 PPVRA : I don't really know what to think of DL's 764s. As they age, sending them to deep South America where they get parked all day long isn't a bad idea, u
167 Post contains images OA412 : This is bizarre. Why didn't Boeing make DL an offer they can't refuse to keep them as a customer. I thought DL would never order Airbus and certainly
168 sankaps : The A32Xs and 744s were factory fresh too. As were all of NWA's 757s. With the exception of some stray 757 and 767 odd-balls that you point out, most
169 anfromme : As far as I remember, John Leahy said there would not be a "cut-off" date between CEO and NEO production. I.e. Airbus does not plan to explicitly sto
170 Flighty : DL adores flexibility. This order allows DL to keep Airbus relations warm. keep Boeing and A "on their toes" as another poster said. _Without any lon
171 Post contains images Transpac787 : Classic. Further, as the same poster insists, the 764 was designed and built to prevent two very important customers from ordering the A330. It seems
172 Prost : Will this order take care of those A319 orders that had been deferred forever from NWA's orderbook? I believe there were 6 on the books still, but ple
173 mayor : I really think it's time for you to get back on your meds. And DL's own MD-90s
174 MSPNWA : From what I understand these indeed will do 12 hour jobs, but isn't that about the limit for them? Is 13 hours a possibility? Because DL could really
175 Post contains images columba : Any chance that they could be turned into freighters or is the market too small ? Would a freighter conversion of the 767-400ER be much more differen
176 mayor : Possibly, but not for DL.
177 aa777223 : While completely accurate, this doesn't negate the accuracy of my point pertaining to the AGE of the aircraft that DL is willing to fly.
178 sankaps : I sure hope they don't go after the KF birds... they will have a mess on their hands! Much like NWA had when they bought DC10s from Korean I think, i
179 sankaps : That I fully agree with... DL and NWA have very similar DNA in that respect.
180 Post contains images XFSUgimpLB41X : My understanding is they will be able to do DTW to Asia. ATL to asia is 14+ hours, so that would be out. The oldest 744s are just now 20 years old. I
181 Post contains images KarelXWB : To be fair, the opposite is also true: you seems to love the 764ER thus you'll say everything to defend the product. Unless you're a Delta fleet plan
182 ukoverlander : This is some of the most rampant Fanboyism I've ever seen on A-net and that is really saying something.......I never thought I'd read such stuff in a
183 AirMailer : I'm guessing that since these new 333s will be better that the current 333s we will see them flying to new places that the current 333s cannot (as opp
184 Post contains images panamair : These 10 should have a range of around 6100nm, which should make most of the DTW-Asia routes do-able except for DTW-PVG... DTW-NRT: 5559nm DTW-NGO: 5
185 texdravid : Wow, as a Boeing fan, it is somewhat distressing sign of its decreased vitality is the way Airbus has made huge gains in the US market over the last 1
186 starrion : Answered in the press release: This Airbus agreement is another opportunistic fleet transaction for Delta in which we acquire economically efficient,
187 trex8 : So will they have to have the -A3 engine or can they get by with the -A4B at 242t MTOW?? IIRC there was a FI article when one of the higher weight A33
188 Post contains images Stitch : I highly doubt passengers at the gate are using smartphones and tablets to look up ship numbers on airfleets.net to see how old the plane they are fl
189 Post contains images anfromme : Well, the residual value of the 767-400ER is pretty low, in any case, so DL would be silly to sell them before their time. A second refurb is not goi
190 columba : I was not thinking of DL with that one but of the possibility that 767-400SF could replace some older freighters like the MD 10F or MD 11F
191 DTW2HYD : Brand NEW!!! Thank You DL.
192 MIflyer12 : Have you actually flown one? Do you have any understanding as to how they're configured? The 764 cabins are very current; lie-flats with aisle access
193 Post contains images Stitch : Follow-on order of what? 777-200LRs? 777-200ERs? 767-300ERs? 767-400ERs? The first two appear to have unnecessary performance (resulting in higher op
194 Post contains images columba : If a freighter conversion would not work maybe they will be picked up by the USAF and used for spares for their tanker fleet just like they did with
195 Post contains images Stitch : Or maybe the E-10A program will rise again (the USAF ordered one 767-400ER for that program, but never took delivery. It was eventually re-sold as a
196 sankaps : I fully agree with this assessment. There was a lot of debate and argument over the semantics of the word "reputation" when it was suggested in all o
197 burnsie28 : Cathay has 37 and Air China have 38 and Air China have only 2 on order. Thus, DL will have the largest. China Eastern has 33 with 2 on order.
198 spink : DL is an intensely capex focused company in stark contrast to most other airlines which are much more opex focused. They can get away with this in so
199 Post contains images columba : So No. 1 again NW was once the largest A330 operator in the world if I recall correctly. Therefore I can see picking up some 2nd hand A330s in a few
200 OA412 : Right. I'm not at all surprised that they went with the 333. I'm simply surprised that they chose GE engines for this order rather than going with RR
201 1337Delta764 : GE is one of DL's financers, and I presume GE gave DL a very good deal. Of DL's relationship with engine manufacturers, the GE relationship is the st
202 cv880 : Makes some sense to replace older 763's and/or reconfigure older 763's to high density domestic transcon/Hawaii and get rid of the 16 76P/Q (domestic
203 KarelXWB : Cathay has another 8 on order and will eventually have 45 total (that's without the 3 they have leased out). And don't forget Turkish Airlines, they
204 Post contains images scbriml : For me, this is the engine choices are the only surprising aspect of these orders. Others may find it all too distressing! More than just one. Cue th
205 Stitch : RR is also no longer part of IAE, whereas GE is part of CFM, so perhaps GE was able to make a better A330 and A321 package deal than RR and IAE could
206 Post contains images LuftyMatt : Congrats to DL and Airbus The A330's currently in DL's fleet are fantastic aeroplanes.
207 ZEDZAG : Maybe RR doesnt hold shares of IAE anymore, but still, they are suppliers to IAE and have benefit from it, so there is something to say
208 Post contains images airbazar : No, they'll just retire the 764's, eventually, while the A330's will still be in the fleet for many years afterwards. i wouldn't call it a replacemen
209 OA412 : You missed the smilie in my post. I wasn't being serious.
210 einsteinboricua : The A330 order I could see a mile away. The A321 order surprised me. Just 30 to replace certain 757s, I suppose? Anyways, congrats to Airbus and DL.
211 Stitch : Oh I am sure Boeing could have gotten DL 777-200LR or 777-200ER frames by 2015, and both can comfortably do more than 12 hour stage lengths, but DL d
212 Post contains links KarelXWB : Delta is not the only airline sticking with "old metal", AirAsia X and Turkish Airlines are doing the same. Here's a nice article about AirAsia X, ex
213 max999 : I don't see this as an issue. This is kind of like bemoaning there are so many Americans who buy Toyota and Mercedes cars. The airlines are purchasin
214 Post contains images scbriml : No. Air China has a total of 40 planes ordered plus 3 on lease. Cathay has a total of 49 on order. Turkish has 41 on order plus 5 leased.
215 bobnwa : How can't say this with such certainty since you are not employed by DL Since when is a prediction a lie if it pedicts someting in the future Again d
216 sankaps : I guess it is a view on how many MORE orders Boeing might have gotten if it weren't for the issues they ran into. For example, this Delta order.[Edit
217 1337Delta764 : No, but it would be very stupid of DL to get rid of them prematurely if they serve a legitimate purpose in the DL fleet. They make money for DL, and
218 Post contains images sankaps : Are we sure of that? To me it appears he/she is employed in Delta's 767-400 IFE engineering or accounting department.
219 Stitch : Well yes, if the 787-8 had entered service on time in 2008 then DL would have them in their fleet now as NW would have taken delivery of the six plan
220 jfk777 : Delta had a long Rolls relationship whne they had L-1011's, but when they got 757 thye went with Pratts. Its been Pratt or GE mostly ever since, they
221 Prost : Without getting into an A vs. B war here, what are the merits of the A321 vs. 737-900ER, amd vice versa. Are there certain missions that each are part
222 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Yes, most are Trent's these days. Asiana still takes A330s with PW. Asiana Airlines - A330-323 by dn280tls, on Flickr
223 United1 : Then why do you seem so hell bent on DL buying UAs 764s?
224 Post contains images Stitch : The A321-200 has about 12.5% better range at MZFW and a 17% higher maximum payload, so on longer stage lengths the A321-200 can lift more. DL seats 1
225 1337Delta764 : Because UA has so many 787s on order and DL doesn't (at least not until 2020). Furthermore, the MD-90 and 717 further strengthens my point, since DL
226 ECAMActions : Tick Tock AA Tick Tock.
227 B757forever : I am guessing this was indeed a stipulation for this order. I suspect DL will miraculously get a life extension on the older 320s. What a coincidence
228 Post contains images Stitch : AA recently ordered a mix of 42 787-8s and 787-9s. They're also starting to take delivery of 460 737NGs, A320 Classics, 737 MAX and A320neos over the
229 DTWPurserBoy : The 321's were a BIG surprise to me! I suspected the A333's or maybe a few more 777's. So maybe painting "A321" on the parking lines was not an accide
230 azjubilee : False. Are you saying Hawaiian is leasing those 4 ex- DL 767s? Hawaiian purchased those 4 DLs stored 767s from the desert and completely refurbished
231 ECAMActions : These replacement a/c. The delta order is growth.
232 Jack : Nice order. Is it known yet if this cancels the outstanding 5 A319 and 2 A320 orders on Airbus books for Northwest?
233 1337Delta764 : Those aircraft were never owned by DL, they were owned by a leasing company who reassigned those aircraft to HA. It is quite possible that HA may hav
234 Stitch : AA didn't need 460 planes for replacement, since they had less than 300 MD-80s, 757-200s and 767-200ERs to replace and already had sufficient 737-800
235 Stitch : airfleets.net disagrees with you. All four are shown as 767-332 and -332 is the Boeing customer code for Delta Airlines. N594HA started life as N116D
236 Post contains images PGNCS : That's the key point: they have essentially no value to any other carrier. Negligible residual values argue for longer time in a fleet. Source? I hav
237 1337Delta764 : Just because a specific aircraft has an airline's customer code doesn't actually mean that the airline owns them. For example, N721TW is owned by ILF
238 Post contains links sankaps : Another priceless gem, completely divorced from reality. Exactly right. Further, http://www.planespotters.net/Airline...lta-Air-Lines#AirlineFleetOve
239 sankaps : Absolutely. But a quick check of the aircraft history will tell you that the HA 767s in question were owned by Delta, not by a lessor.
240 tortugamon : They have a lot of 752s, 763s, and A320s to replace. Not sure if its fair to say that the full A321 order will be for growth. AA has 20 77Ws coming i
241 azjubilee : One tiny correction... 586 also came from LTU and will be retired next month.
242 Post contains images Stitch : That is true, and DL certainly took delivery of some 737-800s that they then immediately re-sold to other customers so those planes would have been d
243 1337Delta764 : It says the same about N665DN, but the FAA website says the owner is Wilmington Trust Co Trustee.
244 Kaiarahi : I though Monty Python was history until I read this thread. Hilarious! Quoting 1337Delta764 from an earlier thread predicting exactly this order: "The
245 sankaps : As Stich explained, they were probably the financiers for the aircraft. They are not a leasing company. There is a difference between financing (taki
246 azjubilee : Again, they are not a leasing company. They are likely the lien holder on the a/c. You do realize the difference between leasing and owning via finan
247 747megatop : Congrats to Delta and Airbus. Slightly off topic and a different note though; as they retire some old types and bring in newer aircraft types; sometim
248 flyabr : you forgot 717 and MD90!!
249 1337Delta764 : But that doesn't negate the fact that the A333 is in a larger capacity class than the 764ER, so you are comparing apples to oranges. The direct compe
250 dlramp4life : Well it appears I am biting my tongue now... I will admit I have said on this forum that DL will has no need for A321s and here we are now... Now that
251 Post contains images DeltaB717 : The GE for A330 surprises me! Can their current A330s be re-engined for commonality, is that doable? Or they're just prepapred to operate both?
252 seabosdca : They operate 767s with differing engine types and several other heterogeneous subfleets, so I think operating different types in their A330 fleet wil
253 Post contains images DeltaB717 : Hmm yup good point, they're not afraid of things like that are they! One of the things I like about DL
254 trex8 : Doable yes, cost effective probably not. DL could run a subfleet with no problems. While they dont have the E1 model, they have lots of CF6-80C2s and
255 PPVRA : Yes, they are alright. But 5-10 years from now flying against 787s, 777s and A350s? Do you think DL will upgrade the interiors once again? Delta did
256 seabosdca : They will probably replace the seats one more time. Of course seat covers and carpet may be replaced more often. The cabin hardware (sidewalls, bins,
257 OA412 : Can you please stop posting about the 764. If you want to discuss the 764, please start a new thread. This thread is about DL's A333/A321 order.
258 IADCA : Perhaps given your predictive record on this very subject (DL fleet replacement, not the Mayan apocalypse) you should leave the forecasting to others
259 1337Delta764 : Retiring them in 5-7 years from now before the 763ER is retired is definitely premature. The 764ERs are some of the newest 767s in the DL fleet, and
260 SXDFC : I really hate to sound mean, but you really should take the advice of some of your fellow a-net members and create you're own master thread about the
261 willzzz88 : Can anyone here give me a summary of the reasons why DL chose GE for the engines versus P&W and RR? Especially RR as I heard RR is the technical l
262 1337Delta764 : Financing, most likely, since GE is one of DL's financers. Also, AA is getting IAE on its A321s, but CFM on the A319s.
263 tristan7977 : Delta ordering Airbus, finally?? Congrats, lets hope for the A350, and A320neo eventually.
264 Post contains links Stitch : GE is one of DL's financiers and DL signed an engine maintenance agreement with GE. DL is the launch customer for this version of the engine, so I ex
265 1337Delta764 : God forbid. Let's hope for the 787, 737MAX, and 777X.
266 MD-90 : No one should forget that it was Delta's crushing debt load of billions upon billions that forced it into bankruptcy. Paid for 764s will certainly ha
267 817Dreamliiner : Well as someone said before: Enough said...
268 jetblueguy22 : This thread has turned into a 764 discussion and has very little to do with the original topic. It will be archived. Any posts made after the lock wil
269 luckyone : See below. Exactly. Delta needed an aircraft (a reliable one with no bugs preferably). Airbus had that. Boeing did not. Something else to point out i
270 Coronado : A321 as configured will be the MCO, TPA and RSW hauler from ATL, DTW, LGA and MSP replacing the older 757. The compact J cabin is the give away.
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