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Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?  
User currently offlinecityairline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 682 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 15508 times:

Seems like PAL has secured slots at Heathrow instead of Gatwick as previously reported.
How did they get their hands on those?
http://philippineairspace.blogspot.s...2013/09/pal-secures-lhr.html#links

Absolutely great if this will push through!

/Alex


I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15337 times:

They last served LHR with A340's, service was transferred from LGW. Hope they do indeed come back, presume they'll use 340's again, at least to start with.

User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15320 times:

Didn't PR keep its LHR slots from when it was still flying there prior to the Asian financial crisis?

Quoting TC957 (Reply 1):
Hope they do indeed come back, presume they'll use 340's again, at least to start with.

Based on what I know, it's either the new A333, the A343 or the 77W which will be sent to Europe.

[Edited 2013-09-13 05:20:03]

User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15285 times:

77W for AMS I'm sure, and the A343 to LHR, CDG or wherever else in Europe. Even the highest gross weight A333's won't do MNL to Europe non-stop.

User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4716 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (7 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 15243 times:

these timings are very good and hopefully the B77W shall be operated.

good to see PAL making the $ 2.5 million investment into Heathrow and abandoning Gatwick.


User currently offlinehotplane From UK - England, joined Jul 2006, 1032 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14919 times:

Is one of the slots the RO Iasi flight?


?
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2868 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14865 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
these timings are very good and hopefully the B77W shall be operated.

I agree, bad timing, you can do domestic connections to Europe maybe, but outside of that, only the return flight offers regional connections with out an overnight. I think they would be fools to fly anything but the 77W to LHR. I thought they were keeping the 343s just until cat 2 is lifted, then they can change aircraft types to their N American destinations.



Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4691 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14558 times:

Good that PR is returning to LHR after a long absence.....

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Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
Even the highest gross weight A333's won't do MNL to Europe non-stop.

Those can do MNL-DXB-LHR.....

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-dxb-lhr&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-dxb-lhr&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
77W for AMS I'm sure, and the A343 to LHR, CDG or wherever else in Europe.

PR might even try hopscotching through Europe like they used to.....

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-dxb-fco-mxp-lhr-ams-fra-dmm-mnl&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-dxb-f...-mnl&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*

.....but that is a very unappealing proposition just to fill the flight. 77W nonstop to MNL may be too big initially, so we could be looking at the A340s from Iberia.....

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-lhr&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-lhr&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*

Hmmn...seems like an ideal route for a B788.   


Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
these timings are very good and hopefully the B77W shall be operated.

I agree, bad timing

Come again?   



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2693 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14402 times:

Does PR really need to be landing at LHR? They're not precisely going for business traffic, rather mostly targeting the Filipino community in England. That is a heavy investment, that is well worth it, but only if it's going to pay off.

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2868 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14306 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 7):
Come again?

I meant to say I don't agree, the timing on the return looks decent, but the morning departure from MNL, does not allow for connections other than some domestic markets. Unless this service is expected to be almost exclusively O/D.

Yeah that previous sytement didn't make much sense.



Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
User currently offlineORDTLV2414 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14204 times:
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How much more traffic can LHR handle??

User currently offlinecityairline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 months 5 days ago) and read 13973 times:

Apparently the schedule is out and the flight is bookable!

The flight will be launched on November 4th and operate five times a week on the 77W!!!

PR720 MNL0805 – 1400LHR 77W 1
PR720 MNL0820 – 1415LHR 77W 47
PR720 MNL0830 – 1425LHR 77W 36

PR721 LHR1615 – 1250+1MNL 77W 1
PR721 LHR1715 – 1350+1MNL 77W 47
PR721 LHR1905 – 1540+1MNL 77W 36

After 15 years of absence PAL will finally return to Europe, and the Philippines will once again have a nonstop service to Europe.

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 8):
Does PR really need to be landing at LHR? They're not precisely going for business traffic, rather mostly targeting the Filipino community in England. That is a heavy investment, that is well worth it, but only if it's going to pay off.

While I agree that the Philippines has been (and to a big extent still is) a low yielding market with not much business traffic, one needs to keep in mind that the nation is currently the fastest growing major economy in all of Asia! So far this year it has been growing even faster than China, India and Indonesia. It is lately even called a new Asian tiger, or Tiger cub economy. So probably PAL is also looking forward and geering up for the future to come. ULH are often difficult to turn profitable, and BA would most certainly not be able to make this route lucrative, but PAL with its lower cost base and high-density configuration might just make it.

/Alex



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineMHG From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 755 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 months 5 days ago) and read 13963 times:

Just checked fares (out nov 4 and back nov 10) for LHR-MNL-LHR and in "U"-class roundtrip fare is 983.75 GBP incl.tax.
Scheduled equipment is B 777 !
All flights are non-stop.

Great its finally going to happen ... !
Just waiting for FRA to pop up in their schedule, though.



I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 months 5 days ago) and read 13942 times:

Yes indeed - showing on Galileo now too. From 4 Nov, so not that much lead-in time.
77W it is.
Welome back PR !


User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13881 times:

I'm sure there will be consolidator and agent nett fare contracts on this route soon.
Garuda should be next for a Europe expansion. So much for those on this site that think the ME3 big boys have saturated the Europe - Philippine market, and that PR & GA could never make non-stops to Europe work now.


User currently offlineplanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13661 times:

Looks like the flight timings won't allow for connections to/from Australia, shame. New operators on the Kangaroo route tend to offer very competitive fares.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 14):
So much for those on this site that think the ME3 big boys have saturated the Europe - Philippine market, and that PR & GA could never make non-stops to Europe work now.

Well they haven't made it work yet. And Garuda have already postponed their planned operation to London.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
you can do domestic connections to Europe maybe,

 


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6897 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13604 times:

I like flying PR, I have a number of sectors on them - one of the things that gets me on longer distance International flights is that I would like to be able to accrue them to an account affiliated with one of the alliances. I don't otherwise fly them often enough to build up many Mabuhay miles.

User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13475 times:

Quoting cityairline (Thread starter):
How did they get their hands on those?

Off-peak time slots such as those are available without any problem.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
77W for AMS I'm sure,

AMS is supposed to be A343 in the beginning, 3-4 weekly flights starting in December, if everything goes as planned.

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 10):
How much more traffic can LHR handle??

There's still enough room for expansion during off-peak gaps.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12788 times:

Quoting cityairline (Reply 11):
PR720 MNL0805 – 1400LHR 77W 1
PR720 MNL0820 – 1415LHR 77W 47
PR720 MNL0830 – 1425LHR 77W 36

PR721 LHR1615 – 1250+1MNL 77W 1
PR721 LHR1715 – 1350+1MNL 77W 47
PR721 LHR1905 – 1540+1MNL 77W 36

While I will agree that there's not much feed that can go into these flights on the outbound save for early morning flights from CEB and DVO (and maybe some of the midnight flights from places like DPS, CGK and CAN), on the inbound it's the opposite: the flight is well-suited for onward connections to Southeast Asia and, on certain days, Australia.

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 17):
AMS is supposed to be A343 in the beginning, 3-4 weekly flights starting in December, if everything goes as planned.

PR seems to have run into a problem with AMS: they have the slots, but AMS has denied its request for the times it wants to schedule the flight.


User currently offlineairlinebuilder From Philippines, joined Nov 2012, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12740 times:

CONGRATULATIONS TO PAL! Finally Asia's first is gaining its status back again, slowly but surely. It is rewarding to finally see it rehabilitating itself in so many ways, the airline that once help major airlines in Southeast Asia to set up the likes of Japan Airlines to name one.

User currently offlinedforce1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12290 times:

The original link from the Philippine Air Space blog indicates that PAL was able to obtain daily slots at Heathrow. Any speculation as to why they are only operating five times per week? Is it due to lack of equipment or are they being cautious? Also, does any have any idea which Terminal they might use?

It was actually declared last May 2012 by Transportation Secretary Mar Roxas that PAL had unused frequencies to London Heathrow and were simply waiting for the ban to be lifted. I am glad that they were able to get to Heathrow although that early departure from Manila does pose somewhat of a problem for those trying to connect from the provinces to the outbound flight. But at least it's a start!

http://www.philippineflightnetwork.c...ne-airlines-service-to-london.html


User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1793 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (7 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12275 times:

Now all they need to do is get a on-line booking system that actually works and takes your credit card. I mean, come on already. I thought they finally resolved this problem, but sure enough, I tried booking travel with them today and it rejects every American credit card I have. This airline has got to get into the 21st Century. The funny thing is, every time this happens and you have to call them, they actually consistently claim their is nothing wrong with their system. OK, maybe once or twice you can believe it, but year after year, PAL's system has credit card problems and they feed you a bunch of BS nothing is wrong. Really? I much rather fly PAL than CEB, but in the end, I wound up booking CEB, an airline I hate giving one Peso to.

You would think that the investment from San Miguel would have fixed this issue, but it has not. I cannot understand how an airline buys 777-300ER's and Airbus' by the the dozens, but cannot fix the reservation system that fills the seats of those expensive planes. Total incompetence!


User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11514 times:

Use a reputable travel agent then, Crownvic. Your payment card will be processed by them instead and the booking will be made by them on a CRS system.

User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11375 times:
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Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
I agree, bad timing, you can do domestic connections to Europe maybe, but outside of that, only the return flight offers regional connections with out an overnight. I think they would be fools to fly anything but the 77W to LHR. I thought they were keeping the 343s just until cat 2 is lifted, then they can change aircraft types to their N American destinations.

I was wondering about this too. They really need to get those 77Ws on their MNL-LAX-MNL flights. The A340s are too small for this market, and the 744s are far from efficient anymore.

I am happy PAL is sending their flagship a/c to LHR. I hope it works out for them.


User currently offlineblueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2782 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11257 times:

Nearly £3,000 for J class return...

I'll forego the non-stop and stick to Qatar thank you very much; and £550 cheaper too.

Can't see this lasting more than 12 months.

Rgds



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
25 sassiciai : I think you are right (at least partially - I prefer AUH by far over DOH for a stopover, given I have Etihad lounge access, and DOH currently is a du
26 LondonCity : The fact is that, as was the case when it last served Europe, PAL will sell its best fares through the travel trade and not direct to the public. PAL
27 Byrdluvs747 : So based on that fact, could we see some sort of cooperation between BA and PR or would BA just continue handing MNL bound pax off to CX?
28 Post contains images Devilfish : Would you still say this if they flew the HGW A333 on a one-stopper to LHR like the GC route in #7? PR was probably constrained by the slots availabl
29 MHG : No real/official info ... I rather have an "educated guess". The slot coordination for FRA has probably not yielded a suitable slot for them yet. FRA
30 HB-IWC : You may want to review that statement. These slots were just as hard to obtain as any others. Apart from a couple of slots here and there on real off
31 SCQ83 : I would also add the convenience of connecting with EK/EY/QR. There are multiple daily flights with any of those carriers from London, and multiple d
32 nzrich : Yes I know the feeling trying to buy an airline ticket in the us is a nightmare also if that airline does not serve the country that you live in . Bu
33 MHG : It will depend on whether they are able to charge a certain premium for offering a non-stop service as well as a taking away some connex traffic (e.g
34 YVRSpeedBird : This is great news as I always believed that PAL should return to Europe, albeit a conservative, calculated expansion. LHR is a good first step as the
35 Post contains links and images Devilfish : The fight is on... ... http://philippineairspace.blogspot.s...loys-counter-offensive-to-lhr.html Quote: " In a bid to push Philippine Airlines(PAL) o
36 aerorobnz : And USU/MPH/CEB only 1h away. I agree. it's better to stop and go for a snorkel.
37 Post contains images MHG : Well, other than in this article I haven´t seen any signs of a fare war. Makes me wonder what´s the source ??? When checking fares I discovered CX
38 crownvic : I just think that I should not have to do that. If I can book CEB, Zest and Tiger from the U.S., why can't I book PAL? So how do you establish a repu
39 RWA380 : Yes, and I guess PR is jumping in with both feet. They will not capture market share with a one stop flight, then people would stick with CX. The one
40 Post contains links sassiciai : There are loads of on-line booking companies on the Net. Just type "cheap flights" into Google and you'll be offered thousands. Or use www.momondo.co
41 YVRSpeedBird : Actually they have very deep pockets now thanks to San Miguel's investment. But do they have the competent management to match? It remains to be seen
42 stlgph : Bloomberg reports Ramon Ang said additional cities are planned - they hope to eventually return to 5 cities including Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.
43 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Maybe this could go some way in convincing them to spend a little more time in MNL... ... http://philippineairspace.blogspot.s...al-unveils-new-mabuh
44 aerorobnz : I would love it if they became a Star Alliance member as well, as a result of the shareholding. That would suit me down to the ground.
45 6thfreedom : Let's see how long this lasts.... how many changes have there been with PAL just in the last 6 months. Toronto starts, then is pulled. Perth services
46 Akiestar : YYZ was not pulled and is still flying. According to what I've read in local forums, this is due to the Philippines-Saudi Arabia bilateral, which imp
47 aerorobnz : And to be fair, it is the indian market. It's notoriously low yielding for many airlines.
48 6thfreedom : so what you can confirm is that in all cases this has been due to PAL's poor decision making or research. none of the above should have occurred if t
49 YVRSpeedBird : And that's why I'll stand by my observation that PAL management is incompetent! When the nonstop service to YYZ was discontinued abruptly (barely 2 m
50 Viscount724 : But wasn't the initial service nonstop? I expect that's what "pulled" is referring to.
51 yellowtail : It is common to have these issues....mainly a card processor and bank issue...may even be your bank. There are hotspots for fraud and banks will ofte
52 crownvic : I pre-called my cc bank and they made it very clear that the charge to PAL would be opened and actually pre-approved a dollar amount similar to what
53 Post contains links 6thfreedom : http://www.philippineflightnetwork.c...ppine-airlines-ending-toronto.html http://www.interaksyon.com/article/6...-service-reduces-vancouver-flights wh
54 PietPiloot : It suprisses me that nobody is talking about AMS anymore. Is it not in de planning any longer now that LHR will be served (using the flightnumber that
55 Akiestar : As far as I know, AMS is currently hampered by scheduling issues.
56 Devilfish : That's "stretching" his meaning a tad...he restates.....
57 Post contains links and images Devilfish : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3681/9619975967_771fe6d5f3_z.jpg That is looking to be the case based on this blog..... http://philippineairspace.blogsp
58 YVRSpeedBird : To the general public, especially those who drank Ramon Ang's Kool Aid, your statements above are true. But to knowledgeable industry insiders, no.
59 Post contains links and images Devilfish : I must admit that I don't have deep aviation specific knowledge, nor do I have any special insight into PR's inner workings. Would you care to share
60 Akiestar : Like we're all "knowledgeable industry insiders". Sheesh. I have yet to determine what is YVRSpeedBird's basis for his claims. If he has knowledge th
61 Meltraveller : PR hasn't yet indicated what its Australia - London via MNL fares on one PNR will be. I hope that it does this soon.
62 Post contains images hybridace101 : ^^ If you look at the timetable, you will see why...
63 Post contains links VV701 : I am not sure of the Winter 2013-14 Season situation. However for Summer 2013 the LHR slot coordinator, Airport Coordination Ltd is reporting: "Air T
64 Meltraveller : hybridace101, other airlines such as those from Korea offer Australia to Europe fares with a compulsory overnight in ICN (for example) so PR's require
65 Post contains links YVRSpeedBird : No such thing as a guarded state secret. And I never claimed to be a PR insider. I just happen to know people within the organization who are both fo
66 6thfreedom : The other issue with the Filipino market is that it tends to travel around the 'traditional' holiday peaks of Easter and Christmas, with the rest yea
67 Meltraveller : Does anyone have any window (pun intended) into how PR's bookings are going for MNL - LHR and when Australia to LHR fares may be released into the mar
68 YVRSpeedBird : So true! Even PAL's US fortresses of LAX & SFO get downgraded to A343 on certain days during the lean months such as now.
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