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New Zealand Aviation Part 134  
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1701 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16401 times:

Well 2 weeks to fill up we do love aviation in New Zealand -!

Welcome to the 134th edition of the New Zealand Aviation Threads. New Zealand part 133 can be found here

New Zealand Aviation Part 133 (by ZKOJH Aug 30 2013 in Civil Aviation)

in part 133 we discussed about;

* More route planning maybe a route to India?
* Issues for NZ 733's
* NZ's Profit
* SQ bringing the A380 to AKL?
* Airpoints
* DJ operations in New Zealand
* Jetstar to start ADL-AKL
* WAG-AKL, AKL-MRO get axed
* ZK-OXB getting the new paint work done in CHC
* Night Rider fares to CHC from November

Lets begin again and enjoy...


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
204 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7376 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16433 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):
but that most of the money seems to be spent on a small number of Chinese retailers and tour providers and luxury duty-free goods which leave minimal profits in New Zealand.

Do you think they sleep in the streets and eat from garbage cans?

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):

Luxon told us, for the first time, that China has been bleeding red ink for Air New Zealand from the start, and that only recently has that been arrested.

Recently if you go by what Luxon said was 18 months ago. That's not to recent for me and it means you've been wrong for 18 months.

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):
Pull the other one.

There's no reason to say he's wrong either, if we keep the same percentage of Chinese tourists as we have today then 1 million is the number.

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):

But its attractions are pretty much the opposite of what most 20-something and 30-something People's Republic of China residents are interested in. A large proportion of them must be bored to death, and must tell their friends that.

So what do you think 20 & 30 something Chinese tourists are interested in? Because I agree with this description, which fit's NZ perfectly.

Quote:
Although Chinese tourists will want to see clear blue skies, breath clean fresh air, and visit beautiful sandy beaches, they will avoid any exposure to strong sunlight. Unlike European tourists, they will not want to return home with a Golden tan. In China, dark skin is associated with peasant farmers and poverty. City-folk look down on peasants and their lifestyle.

Unfortunately, our guests may not be interested in delving too deeply into Western culture. And they will not want want to spend a lot of time enjoying just a few very interesting attractions. Instead, they would prefer to sample as many local attractions that they can possibly fit into their tight schedule. This way they believe that they will be getting their money’s worth.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16374 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 1):
So what do you think 20 & 30 something Chinese tourists are interested in? Because I agree with this description, which fit's NZ perfectly.

Quote:
Although Chinese tourists will want to see clear blue skies, breath clean fresh air, and visit beautiful sandy beaches, they will avoid any exposure to strong sunlight. Unlike European tourists, they will not want to return home with a Golden tan. In China, dark skin is associated with peasant farmers and poverty. City-folk look down on peasants and their lifestyle.

Unfortunately, our guests may not be interested in delving too deeply into Western culture. And they will not want want to spend a lot of time enjoying just a few very interesting attractions. Instead, they would prefer to sample as many local attractions that they can possibly fit into their tight schedule. This way they believe that they will be getting their money’s worth.

Rob, I don't want to sound condescending, but I'm not sure that you got the message that Luxon was communicating or that this quote is giving. Or whether you picked up on Xiaotung's description of Chinese friends finding NZ really boring apart from the Duty Free stores.

Luxon very clearly said that the original promotion direction taken by Air NZ in China was a failure - and that direction was "clean, green, natural, unspoiled". And people weren't interested enough for it to make money.

Luxon also said that now they have concentrated their advertising on vacuous reality tv shows for the brain dead, and that they believe that the way to get young upwardly mobile Chinese people to visit NZ is to ensure that in their glossy magazines they have seen their heroes homeymoon or holiday in NZ.

Your own quote comments upon how anything viewed as rural is equated to "peasant" or the past or failure.

Translated into western culture, Air NZ has decided that clean, green NZ doesn't cut it in China and they are instead focusing on the sort of people who follow the Kardashians or the late Jade Goody, and trying to persuade them to go where their heroes have been.

And so far, it's working, in conjunction with downgauging lots of flights from lie-flat beds and premium economy to high density economy plus a small Business recliner seat cabin.

I do apologise to anyone who feels offended by my post, and I don't in any way want to sound superior. I'm always impressed when I visit Singapore or Hong Kong, it's just not to my taste. And I'm not in any way claiming that my taste is better.

And I think that Luxon and Air NZ are being smart. Clean, green, tranquil, natural New Zealand plays well in western culture. But to many people from other cultures, that sounds like a punishment, not a holiday.

Good on Air NZ for recognising that you can't just say "we're clean and natural" and expect to appeal to every market. And the emphasis on better understanding of local markets is very appropriate.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16347 times:

According to 'Wikipedia' (not the best for info) it says that the seating on the 787-9 will be split into 35J/30P/235Y = 300 ? didn't know that NZ had released the final seating numbers yet? so if this is true, a much better number for the 'Asia Markets'! ?


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7376 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16300 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 2):
Or whether you picked up on Xiaotung's description of Chinese friends finding NZ really boring apart from the Duty Free stores.

That's his Chinese friends, now Xiaotung might be a pretty popular guy but I'm sure he isn't friends with everyone, I have some Chinese co-workers who have been to NZ and they loved it, one couple have even been twice, the North Island the first time, the South Island this year.

Quoting koruman (Reply 2):
Your own quote comments upon how anything viewed as rural is equated to "peasant" or the past or failure.

Yet

Quote:
Many Chinese want to escape "the intensity of the urban population". In many cities there is a lack of personal space and the presence of smog, making a trip to New Zealand feel like an out-of-this-world experience.

Tourism New Zealand chief executive Kevin Bowler says one way to attract more Chinese tourists is to market New Zealand as an aspirational destination. This is being done at the moment by making a connection between the country and Chinese actress Yao Chen, who travelled to Queenstown in November to get married.

She married in Queenstown, hardly the big city experience you seam to think appeals to Chinese, they have plenty of there own big cities. If you carried on reading what I quoted it's getting a tan that's associated with peasants not visiting smog free rural environments.

Quote:
Chinese buyer Wu Yandong, of Beijing China Travel Service, was at Trenz 2013 in Auckland this year to identify the best of New Zealand tourism products.

Wu and buyers from other countries including India and Indonesia are the influencers in getting Asian travellers on a first visit to experience what Kiwi tour operators have to offer. He says there are more independent Chinese travellers arriving, rather than the guided group tours that were prevalent five years ago.

"From two years ago FIT (free or fully independent travellers) and some special interest started coming. They're into fishing, rafting, skiing or photograph taking," Wu says.

Ocean fishing from charter boats is another favourite, with seafood "a Chinese favourite".

The above quotes can be found here

[quote] Chinese enjoyed a range of activities including golf tours and wine tasting. But there also needs to be better infrastructure provided by New Zealand for their accommodation needs as well.

"From my perspective I'd like to see more hotels. The Chinese hotels are usually very good - four stars, five stars . . . so Chinese customers of course like those things as well," Hong says. /quote]

Completely agree here, whilst we have world class high end lodges we need a few 5 star properties in Auckland, Wellington, Bay of Islands and Queenstown.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25256 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 16243 times:
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Quoting koruman (Reply 202):
Don't get me wrong, I'm very impressed by Luxon. But there was an almost complete lack of detail or information in that speech, just a series of platitudes about engaging with your market.

I assume it was it was tailored to his audience.

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):
If Chinese leisure travel is to quadruple in the next decade, I'd be surprised to see New Zealand's share increase by more than around 50%, and certainly not 400%.

According to one tourist research agency, it will hit 46% y-o-y growth next year:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11123301

The number of Chinese tourists coming to New Zealand is forecast to surge by 46 per cent with an extra 100,000 visitors during the next year, according to a tourism research agency.

Research institute director Wolfgang Georg Arlt said the main increase in travellers came from a new generation of young, wealthy Chinese, born in the 1980s and 90s who had only ever known economic progress."


I dunno - I can't predict the future. That number seems optimistic to me, but I don't study the market and I've been wrong before.

If it is even half of that number, I hope we're ready - doubt we are.

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):
et's be totally honest here. I love going back to New Zealand. I had a lovely few days there last week, and I'm going back next Friday.

But its attractions are pretty much the opposite of what most 20-something and 30-something People's Republic of China residents are interested in. A large proportion of them must be bored to death, and must tell their friends that.

If I recall correctly, you were spectacularly underwhelmed by Phuket and yet many, many tourists go there.

I am always completely underwhelmed by Surfers Paradise - I can never find a "there" there - but many, many people can.

In the very early days of the Japanese tourist boom in Australia, there was a big market for watching the frill-necked lizard run. Doesn't cut it for me, but each to their own. I don't assume anyone else wants the things that interest me.

mariner

[Edited 2013-09-15 11:47:58]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7376 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 16220 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):
there was a big market for watching the frill-necked lizard run.

Which makes me think of the Agrodome in Rotorua, I took my kids there in August, it was a full house with easily half the audience being young 20-30 something Chinese couples, many with a child in tow, they appeared to enjoy it and went snap happy taking photos with the sheep and the sheep dogs.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25256 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 16160 times:
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Quoting kiwirob (Reply 6):
Which makes me think of the Agrodome in Rotorua, I took my kids there in August, it was a full house with easily half the audience being young 20-30 something Chinese couples, many with a child in tow, they appeared to enjoy it and went snap happy taking photos with the sheep and the sheep dogs.

I suppose that's partially my point. People tend to sneer at "organized entertainment for the masses" and coach parties to see the obvious sites, but if you'e on holiday with limited time, they give a chance to have different and interesting experiences. "Sheep are interesting?" I hear you cry - well, to some, they are, especially if they've never seen 'em before.

There's something else. I first arrived in NZ in 1965, and although I had lived in several countries (I was raised in the Middle East) I had never seen anywhere like NZ.

People say it was dull then - the land of the long white shroud - but it wasn't for me, I had never experienced such a casual, barefoot society and it was completely seductive - despite the six o'clock swill. My love affair with New Zealand began then, and despite all the glamorous places I have lived since, it has never ended, I kept coming back. Every time I go to more vibrant Australia I wonder if I should move back there - but NZ wins every time.

My concern is that NZ's own inferiority complex about itself ("we gotta be more "international") may be it's own undoing.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 16158 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 4):
That's his Chinese friends, now Xiaotung might be a pretty popular guy but I'm sure he isn't friends with everyone, I have some Chinese co-workers who have been to NZ and they loved it, one couple have even been twice, the North Island the first time, the South Island this year.

I actually used the example to say that even the ones who find New Zealand boring still spend and there is nothing wrong with that.

I think one of the selling points is actually the clean and natural environment of New Zealand given the pollution and food health issues which are becoming increasingly worrisome in China. New Zealand only needs to attract a fraction of the booming international Chinese travellers to be successful.

Given the current trend of what Chinese tourists do when they travel and their desire for luxury goods, they probably would find time spent on Galeries Lafayette the most enjoyable if they visited Paris.

So if New Zealand is not ready, they won't care and they will go somewhere else and that will be New Zealand's loss.


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1244 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16059 times:

I read an academic article that claimed that over 30% of those chinese visiting New Zealand had some family connection to the country. Uncle/Aunty living here or niece studying here (and the uncle and aunt term isnt just bloodlines in most Asian cultures )
The other part usually went on an organised tour. the organised tours arent just the ones sold in China but also those sold by Chinese agents in New Zealand. Its coach tours that cramp in as many sites as possible and plenty of shopping.

Chinese tourists are great to me, they come visit everything, spend heavily on souvenirs and dont go pissing and puking down the backstreets. Great tourists for everyone.

We must remember that the tourism we see in NZ is so controlled by horrible flightcentre that you dont get the normal kind of tourism thats mroe common in the rest of the world, ie grouptours. in Europe the kuonis, Thomas cooks etc send people all over the world on grouptours, charter holidays. If you go back 40 years they used to be loaded with excursions, these days most dont want to travel around with large groups and the destinations we choose tend to speak our languages. For the chinese the destinations doesnt speak mandarin nor have they been able to travel for a long time.
Give it another ten years and their traveltaste will have changed and be like the SIngaporean are today. (Most SIngaporeans dont go on group tours its seen as non trendy)

We must also remember, NZ is a tiny, tiny destination for the chinese. A niche offer that depends on the tour organisiers to provide publicity. Luxon is rightfully mentioning world famous in NZ - way way to much is world famous in NZ and thats dangerous.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7189 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16037 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 201):
Good luck with that. Canada has very big S. Asian communities (YYZ, YVR, YEG), but AC has never been able to make it work - started and abandoned several times.

Exactly. At the last year's staff meeting regarding profits, When one of the staff asked about India, on of the Exec team said something along the lines of "We might fly there one day but not in my lifetime..." I would rule india out completely except as a codeshare arrangement.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 203):

Recently if you go by what Luxon said was 18 months ago. That's not to recent for me and it means you've been wrong for 18 months.

LOL. at least.

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
My concern is that NZ's own inferiority complex about itself ("we gotta be more "international") may be it's own undoing.

It has already proved to be it's undoing in State Affairs and making free trade agreements with larger more powerful countries. NZ gives it all away in negotiation just to get a signature on the dotted line.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25256 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 16001 times:
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I'm not advocating this - just asking a question.

Many, many years ago (many!) there was a lot of hoopla because there was service HBA-NZ (I think TAA started the ball rolling).

Then I went away to the US and didn't keep track, and somewhere along the line HBA lost NZ service.

I assume (?) the Tasmanians would be pleased, but is Hobart any kind of a market from NZ - or vice versa?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 15969 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
Many, many years ago (many!) there was a lot of hoopla because there was service HBA-NZ (I think TAA started the ball rolling).

Then I went away to the US and didn't keep track, and somewhere along the line HBA lost NZ service.

I assume (?) the Tasmanians would be pleased, but is Hobart any kind of a market from NZ - or vice versa?

This was initially an interesting reflection of Australian domestic aviation political theatre of the time. Ansett had been badgering the Australian government to be allowed to undertake Transtasman flights. The government, of course, consistently declined on the basis that the international carrier was Qantas, end of story. While I don't know how CHC-HBA was settled on, it was a compromise - a route that Qantas didn't fly. However, enter TAA which was locked in the domestic "two-airline" policy with Ansett, crying foul and demanding the same rights as Ansett. The government's response (in the mid-70s if my memory is accurate) was to allow both carriers to run a weekly 727 on the route (though I think the airlines subsequently cut back to fortnightly each).

NZ was the third player on the route, starting in January 1983 - the other carriers had gone home by then. The service operated year-round weekly on a Saturday with a 737-200, though in some summers a second Sunday service was added. One summer they actually operated two flights on a Saturday - and none for the rest of the week.

I travelled that route many times between 1983 and 1986 as I had business dealings in Hobart and fancied the novelty (yes!) of crossing the Tasman in a twin-engined aircraft. I may stand corrected, but I think that this was the first and for some years the only regular flight across the Tasman in a twin. I don't know when it ceased, but I'm pretty sure it was in the current century.

As an aside, Qantas also served NZ from Hobart, albeit briefly. I flew on (I think) the second-last HBA-AKL service on a QF 762 some time in the mid-80s. By the time my next trip back to HBA came along, they had retained the "direct" flight but rerouted it via MEL. I still remember being amazed at the hoopla that QF put on to promote the flight as being the inaugural of their new "improved" services on AKL-MEL-HBA, while conveniently ignoring the fact that their original nonstop service was actually far superior. I think I've still got an "inagural flight" souvenir somewhere! But even the AKL-MEL-HBA service didn't last long, and that was the end of QF 767s to HBA as well.

[Edited 2013-09-15 18:15:04]


This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7106 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15911 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 193):
Makes you wonder if there is a future for the A380 in NZ colours, if visitors jump to 1 million within a decade.

I've said it somewhere before that NZ could do with a small fleet of A380s. But it will be a while away if it happens. Could take over NZ1/2 and a few other routes.
I think the 77W is too small in the long term. Never made sense to me reducing the size of a plane while the aviation market is aparantly 'growing'


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 15879 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 13):
I've said it somewhere before that NZ could do with a small fleet of A380s. But it will be a while away if it happens. Could take over NZ1/2 and a few other routes.
I think the 77W is too small in the long term. Never made sense to me reducing the size of a plane while the aviation market is aparantly 'growing'

Who are the extra 80 passengers whom you wish to squeeze onto this aircraft, and what would be the yields at the prices you would have to charge to pack 'em in?

I would think that ultimately Chinese airlines should control around 80% of their outbound market to New Zealand. Their cost base is low and their product is below average. How can Air NZ compete for volume against that combination?

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 10):
When one of the staff asked about India, on of the Exec team said something along the lines of "We might fly there one day but not in my lifetime..." I would rule india out completely except as a codeshare arrangement.

I agree, but I have serious misgivings. A far higher proportion of Indian travellers are independent travellers compared to PR Chinese ones, and they have the huge advantage that the Indian demographic which travels overseas has 100% literacy in English.

And while Luxon is using whatever the name is for "Chinese Idol" and "Big Brother" to drum up recognition of NZ in China, he already has it in India through cricket.

I still think that the old Brisbane base was a good idea that cam before its time. I would like to see an Auckland-Brisbane-Mumbai flight and probably a Shanghai-Brisbane (or Gold Coast)-Christchurch one. Both with variations on the Seats To Suit model.


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 883 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 15856 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
Then I went away to the US and didn't keep track, and somewhere along the line HBA lost NZ service.

The last CHC-HBA-CHC 732 appears to have been Sat 25 Apr 1998 and it didn't operate 03 May 1997 to 08 Nov 1997, so peak season only before it ceased.

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
I assume (?) the Tasmanians would be pleased, but is Hobart any kind of a market from NZ - or vice versa?

Definitely some market HBA-AKL, and a useful connection to AKL-LAX/SFO/YVR and some AKL-APW/RAR/PPT, but is it enough to fill a 320?

VA could possibly do ADL-HBA-CHC.

PA515

[Edited 2013-09-15 21:01:23]

User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 883 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 15798 times:

HIAPL 2009 Hobart Airport Master Plan
www.hobartairport.com.au/uploads/Final%20Master%20Plan%20Smaller.pdf

Air Traffic Forcasts (page vi)

Quote:
It is anticipated that international regular passenger transport flights could commence between Hobart and New Zealand and Hobart and Singapore or Kuala Lumpur by 2012

PA515

[Edited 2013-09-15 22:08:35]

User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7106 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 15763 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 14):
Who are the extra 80 passengers whom you wish to squeeze onto this aircraft, and what would be the yields at the prices you would have to charge to pack 'em in?

Not now but in future, say 10 years down the line who knows? My post relates to down the track. Never say never, stranger things have happened is what I've learnt during my time on this planet. A380 in NZ colours later on? Who knows, it's not far fetched at all especially if things keep 'growing' the way they do as we are told they are doing


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25256 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 15747 times:
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Quoting PA515 (Reply 15):
Definitely some market HBA-AKL, and a useful connection to AKL-LAX/SFO/YVR and some AKL-APW/RAR/PPT, but is it enough to fill a 320?
Quoting PA515 (Reply 16):
Air Traffic Forcasts (page vi)

Quote:
It is anticipated that international regular passenger transport flights could commence between Hobart and New Zealand and Hobart and Singapore or Kuala Lumpur by 2012

Thanks for all that. I think they are a tad overly optimistic about SIN or KUL - and maybe about NZ - but that's not a problem for me, I'm an optimistic bloke.

I'm a great fan of less than daily service, and it's tough to think that the Hobart population of 250,000 couldn't support NZ A320 service - on a very limited frequency - especially with the connection possibilities, but since no airline agrees, it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.

Still, I hope the airport gets its wish and that service to NZ is a possibility. I like Tasmania - I think it gets the rough end of the pineapple quite often.

mariner

[Edited 2013-09-15 22:41:16]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 15737 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 14):
I still think that the old Brisbane base was a good idea that cam before its time. I would like to see an Auckland-Brisbane-Mumbai flight and probably a Shanghai-Brisbane (or Gold Coast)-Christchurch one. Both with variations on the Seats To Suit model.

I agree with this - and I could even in the future see NZ flying AKL-BNE-AUH as part of a three-way VA/EY/NZ approach to serving Europe from Australasia a la QF via DXB.

India is a difficult proposition for NZ on its own metal without an Australian stop, as it would be very thin, at least in its initial phases. But a BNE hub, properly co-ordinated with a wave of flights to WLG, CHC and ZQN as well as AKL, could serve a range of Asian destinations currently not considered viable nonstop from AKL. And in partnership with VA, could provide Australian feed as well.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 15724 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
I'm a great fan of less than daily service, and it's tough to think that the Hobart population of 250,000 couldn't support NZ A320 service - on a very limited frequency - especially with the connection possibilities, but since no airline agrees, it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.

Agree. I wonder, though, whether VA might not consider an E190 or two being based in AKL specifically to provide feed to and from NZ's North American flights with 2-3 services a week each from HBA, CBR, TSV, NTL for example, in addition to the point-to-point traffic.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25256 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 15696 times:
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Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 20):
Agree. I wonder, though, whether VA might not consider an E190 or two being based in AKL specifically to provide feed to and from NZ's North American flights with 2-3 services a week each from HBA, CBR, TSV, NTL for example, in addition to the point-to-point traffic.

Mayhap.

I have to say, though, that based on my US experience I have an eyebrow raised about the E190. It's a good ride, but the CASM/CASK is several points higher than the A320.

In a survey made by one airline (in an LCC situation) the break-even load factor on the E190 was in excess of 90% while the A320 was about 82%.

Now, oil was very high when the survey was made and all sorts of factors play into this. Virgin seems to be making the E190 work, although it got rid of the E170's, which have an even higher CASK.

The E190 seems at its best in a legacy situation of high yield connecting traffic or, on its own, thinner routes but with high yields.

I'd also be interested to know how Virgin manages with maintenance, because for JetBlue the aircraft is a hanger hog:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-cut-into-jetblues-profits-385172/

"Embraer maintenance costs cut into JetBlue's profits

JetBlue Airways attributes the decline in its first quarter earnings to weakened travel demand, caused by the lingering effects of Hurricane Sandy and unplanned maintenance costs on the engines of its Embraer 190 aircraft"


This has been true almost since the airline first took the E190's. As the CEO also says:

"Barger calls the accelerated maintenance "teething pains," noting that JetBlue was the launch customer of the Embraer 190.

"As a young airline there was a lot of burden on us to be the worldwide launch customer for this airframe," he says. "I would have loved to have been a follower."


mariner

[Edited 2013-09-15 23:18:25]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7376 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15561 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
People tend to sneer at "organized entertainment for the masses" and coach parties to see the obvious sites, but if you'e on holiday with limited time, they give a chance to have different and interesting experiences. "Sheep are interesting?" I hear you cry - well, to some, they are, especially if they've never seen 'em before.

People tend to forget that some people travel with there kids, when travelling with kids you do completely different things than when travelling by yourself or as a couple. Chinese kids like cudly animals, how much more cudly can you get than a couple of weeks old lamb?

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
Every time I go to more vibrant Australia I wonder if I should move back there

I've never felt Australia was any more a vibrant a place to be, every time I went I was always pretty happy to return home, I've never had that grass is greener in Australia belief that many kiwis mistakenly believe, we never hear about the many who come home with tails between their legs, broken and battered.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 9):
Most SIngaporeans dont go on group tours its seen as non trendy

As I quoted above this is already starting with Chinese tourists.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 9):
way way to much is world famous in NZ and thats dangerous.

I only though L&P was world famous in NZ?


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15460 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 12):
This was initially an interesting reflection of Australian domestic aviation political theatre of the time.

Thanks for that. I love the hilariously ridiculous machinations of politics and aviation policy. Thankfully, mostly in yesteryear.

Quoting koruman (Reply 14):
I still think that the old Brisbane base was a good idea that cam before its time.

So do I. A great spearhead into the likes of Seoul, Taipei... maybe KUL, BKK and SIN could've stayed on the cards, along with more of the Japanese cities, with a fleet of 5-6 refurb'd 767s. Bummer.

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
I'm a great fan of less than daily service, and it's tough to think that the Hobart population of 250,000 couldn't support NZ A320 service - on a very limited frequency - especially with the connection possibilities,

Yeah that sounds reasonable. I guess it's also a matter if there are simply other markets where the current fleet can be used more profitably. But it would make NZ and AKL a pretty impressive option for transfers.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7189 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15425 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 19):
India is a difficult proposition for NZ on its own metal without an Australian stop

Why fly it at all when AI already serves the market with a 787? A codeshare on AI via SYD/MEL would take care of the market just fine.


25 DavidByrne : Oh well, so perhaps the E190 isn't going to work. Maybe the A320 could serve secondary Australian ports at reduced frequencies, but anything less tha
26 Post contains links mariner : Well - not necessarily. The problem with the E190, as the CEO said, is that they were the first to fly the model. They had to deal with the glitches
27 Kaiarahi : Same with AC. A software tweak was needed for cold weather starts (i.e. -20C and lower), no particular issues since.
28 aerorobnz : The whole point of these alliances, commercial arrangements is so NZ doesn't have to fly everywhere to have a network. Having an agreement such as NZ/
29 mariner : For sure. But I guess the same could be said about MCY, which is not an arduous drive from BNE. As I said at the start of this, I'm not advocating HB
30 Post contains images koruman : That is true, but don't forget that Air NZ also owns nearly a third of Virgin Australia, in spite of the bogus front to make their international oper
31 DavidByrne : Agreed, but I don't think this in any way negates the idea of a BNE hub. First, there's no reason to assume that the flights beyond BNE would be oper
32 sunrisevalley : But the total trip costs full with 100 or 112 passengers would beat an A320 partially loaded. The LH version with 18"+ cushion and 32" pitch beats th
33 mariner : Sure. As I said: CASM/CASK always has to be balanced against revenue - and unquestionably it is a sweet ride. mariner[Edited 2013-09-16 19:33:30]
34 aerorobnz : growth from home base is an ENTIRELY different prospect. The expenditure involved is hugely reduced, and the risks much less. I happen to know the su
35 NZ107 : Now the 789 has taken its first flight, I wonder how long it'll take before Boeing brings it down here for NZ to have a look at. It sure looks great,
36 DavidByrne : The trouble with code-sharing on an Asian carrier is that they generally only serve one destination non-stop - in this case HKG. All other destinatio
37 Post contains images TheLifehouse : Any updates on ZK-MVD? According to a few forum posts shes due for delivery around September-October. It will interesting to see her in the new fern l
38 Post contains links PA515 : At the time ZK-MVC was delivered someone said ATR production had slipped about three weeks behind schedule. The latest planespotters update has up to
39 Andrensn : I just saw a NZRAF Hercules take off from Nelson. Not a very common sight around here Does anyone know why it was here??? Cheers Andrensn
40 xiaotung : With only 5 x 77W's in the long haul fleet and the majority of 330's stuck with Perth, I can't see how VA can establish an Asian hub unless they axe
41 DavidByrne : Not sure why you thnk that axing AUH would make sense. Surely VA's AUH link is exactly the same strategy that QF is following with DXB, which it sees
42 aerorobnz : I think there will be a South East asian partner in the not too distant future, to match the HKG/China partner CX and our Japanese partner NH. We see
43 xiaotung : Given the limited number of aircraft in the long haul fleet, I just thought they could be better utilised if deployed to North Asia where VA has no p
44 DavidByrne : I guess we're looking at this quite differently. Sure, right now, VA's metal is committed in certain directions. But if a new strategic direction was
45 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Air NZ Dreamliner could mean cheaper fares'' Air New Zealand could have scope to drop fares on long-haul routes to fend off competition when its fue
46 Post contains images NZ107 : Cheap fares and sending them to the low yielding China/Japan market because they can't fill 777s? They said the A380 was going to mean cheaper fares
47 mr airnz : I consider that a bargain price!
48 zkojq : Add the Coromandel Peninsular to that. It is unfortunately very uncommon to see asian tourists in that area. Maybe some high quality accommodation wo
49 Post contains images aerorobnz : Nah, some places have to be left for New Zealanders... Coromandel is where Northern kiwis go to relax Though I agree there needs to be more 5 star ho
50 DavidByrne : Looked at in a historical context, air travel is the cheapest it has ever been, in real dollars. When I lived in London in 1983, I constantly scanned
51 Post contains images sunrisevalley : On a per seat basis AKL-NRT; the 789 fuel cost is about $50 less than a 763 . Not a lot of wriggle room there.
52 PA515 : ATDB (Aero Transport Data Bank) has ZK-MVD as c/n 1117. ATR production is 80 aircraft in 2013 which is about 1.5 a week. Delivery from TLS would be a
53 Post contains links 777ER : As expected the New Zealand side has re-approved the NZ/VA codeshare agreement with the same conditions as the ACCC. Only change appears that NZ/VA ne
54 Palmyboy12 : Apologies for not being familiar in the subtleties of the airport ground-handling industry....is Toll Dnata cheaper/inferior compared to say, Qantas
55 aerorobnz : tollDnata handles NZ in Australia. it used to be QF until Toll undercut them. I didn't mean quality wise, merely 3rd party ground handling
56 zkncj : Whats up with ZK-OJA it seems to been put on domestic runs for the past week? has it been moved to the domestic fleet? Also noticed the other day at A
57 aerorobnz : OAB maintenance and perhaps also OXB repaint...
58 SCL767 : Effective 31DEC13, LAN will operate the SCL-AKL-SYD route on a daily basis. Source: LAN.com
59 aerorobnz : It was only a matter of time. Seasonally this has been the case for a while. I wish them luck with keeping the schedule, I know how hard it has been
60 SCL767 : LAN will have three A343s in the fleet until 2015. The A343s will be deployed solely on the SCL-AKL-SYD route.
61 sunrisevalley : SCL767......what is the Chilean regulators rules for EDTO/ETOPS operation by Chilean carriers?
62 nirvarma : Any reason China Southern 306 and NZ87 departed for CAN and HKG this morning (rather) than last night? Cheers NV
63 NZ107 : There's a typhoon which passed over Southern China last night and all flights into/out of HKG (and I suspect CAN, MFM etc) were cancelled.
64 cchan : Correct. NZ80 last night departed HKG early at 5:30pm ish local time instead of the usual 7:10pm to avoid the storm. HKG operations were more or less
65 NZ1 : OXB rolled out of the CHC paint hangar today in the new livery. Looks stunning. All to be revealed tomorrow. NZ1
66 NZ107 : Seen pics of it in the hangar. It looks tacky to me.. I'd much rather see some colour (ie teal) instead of it being a big black and white Tourism NZ
67 NZ1 : I was sceptical to start with, but after seeing it in the flesh with my own eyes, my opinion has changed. NZ1
68 aerokiwi : You mean NZ Trade and Enterprise. I mean, Immigration New Zealand. Or was it the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade? Nothing like a government dep
69 777ER : What is so wrong with having a livery that involves part of a Government logo? Sure it uses a logo that muitple departments use but the Silver Fern i
70 gasman : I think what he's getting at is the lack of a consistent product and marketing image, that serves to give the impression they are just making the who
71 mariner : Some might argue that with majority Crown ownership that the airline is a government department. Then again, for the first fifty years of settlement,
72 zkncj : I thought NZ was now a LCC? on its way to become a ULCC
73 mariner : Back me into a corner and I'd say LCC, but the premium cabin, lounges and long haul international, etc, play against that a bit. I had not thought UL
74 mr airnz : Air New Zealand is neither. In reality it's trying to fit its short haul operation into the 'new age airline' model. Elements of both legacy carriers
75 Post contains images gasman : Point taken. In fact, the lack of any new major dopey-ness from NZ over the last year makes me wonder how many of the previous 5 years' worth of hare
76 ZKSUJ : Released this morning. The 763 will be doing charters to McMurdo base in Antartica transporting scientists etc etc
77 NZ107 : Wouldn't I love to catch a ride on that! Imagine jumpseating that flight...
78 Post contains images TheLifehouse : Here is a photo of ZK-OXB this morning EDIT: Unsure if this breaks rule two or not, if so let me know and I'll post a link instead.[Edited 2013-09-23
79 aerorobnz : It looks incomplete/half finished to me.
80 PA515 : The 'Air New Zealand' has not been changed to the bold font used in the 787-9 images. PA515
81 zkncj : I wouldn't think they would have done a full repaint, just added the extra black on the back. OXB is only a couple of months old.
82 CHCalfonzo : Lots of interesting changes to NZs domestic schedule this summer. Looking at the schedule for a week in March reveals the following major changes. AKL
83 777ER : Nice to finally see the A320 operating on all the main routes. Presume WLG-AKL and CHC-AKL will loose some A320s and gain the B733s coming off the ot
84 byronicle6 : Also noticed TRG will get an ATR every weekday on the evening AKL-TRG-AKL flight
85 aerokiwi : Really? You have to ask this? What was the last airline you saw flying around with a government department logo? Aeroflot? At least Air Canada has a
86 ZKSUJ : I'm with you on this one. I'm not a fan of the new livery personally, and think consistency and an identity is key which is something you point out a
87 Post contains links mariner : I like the fern leaf. I don't care if other organizations or government departments use it. http://www.tekaraka.co.nz/Blog/issue...contents-issue-46/
88 777ER : Yip I had to ask! Why does it matter that its also a Government logo? It doesn't matter one bit! Maybe you could then say that either the Government
89 DavidByrne : Freedom Air was the LCC arm of NZ and so "complete separation" has been tried. Commercial judgement led them to fold it all back into the current hyb
90 Post contains images gasman : Actually - yes. The "nothing to hide" video I think was quite clever. But IMHO, that should've been a one-off diversion. All the others have been fac
91 Post contains links and images mariner : While I think it is possible for a "pure LCC" arm to be successful here (except for long-haul), I would have serious doubts about the viability of a
92 Post contains images ZKSUJ : Agree with your post. For me nothing to hide and the rugby videos were great. After that it's all a bit much. Gimmicky videos like the fit to fly, ri
93 sunrisevalley : I have real trouble with the Fern. It is grossly over proportioned in my view. Looks like a barracuda's mouth,
94 koruman : Gasman, I suspect that you are right, and that most of the eccentricity of the last few years which antagonised customers may have come from the mind
95 gasman : I really hope he does this too, but to do so would take a level of insight and "thinking outside the box" that we've not witnessed for a while (the w
96 cchan : NZ's new livery would probably look best on an A321...but is NZ going to order them?
97 aerorobnz : orders can be converted but I don't believe there are plans currently.
98 Post contains images zkojq : 787 Simulator is being installed. Well plenty of Western European tourists visit there too. French and German accents are reasonably common at Hahei,
99 Post contains links carryon : First route proving flight departs October 5 operating AKL - McMurdo, if it is successful there will be another two services operated during the summ
100 NZ107 : I wonder how much there would be to unload.. I'd imagine all the scientific equipment would be taken on a C17 or something; or already be there.
101 Post contains links Palmyboy12 : Has anybody seen this concept yet? http://thedesignair.net/2013/09/20/r...r-look-at-air-new-zealands-livery/ By French designer Remy Chevarin, I perso
102 ZKSUJ : I prefer it to what's being applied now. A wee bit more class
103 DavidByrne : A lot more class!
104 ZKOJH : ''Air New Zealand to Add Christchurch – Paraparaumu Service from Nov 2013'' 4th November will see the start of Christchurch – Paraparaumu service,
105 Post contains links nzdsgnr : While the design done by DesignAir is definitely more pleasing to the eye, I don't believe that NZ would've had the option of choosing it. I have jus
106 sunrisevalley : A way more class Perhaps this statement says an awful lot about where Tourism NZ is at right now. Crude and rather short on finess.
107 aerokiwi : Oh that would be me "moaning" (note: also known as criticism). Because it's an awkward, ungainly symbol. For government and government interests. And
108 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Air NZ's stock soars on buyback extension'' Air New Zealand shares surged nearly 4 per cent yesterday as it announced it was extending its share buy
109 gasman : Totally. Amazing how with a few very subtle tweaks, something competent but slightly amateurish becomes artistic and striking. I particularly like th
110 cchan : Probably quite unlikely until the international A320 fleet is due for renewal.
111 Post contains links and images zkeoj : Hi Guys I saw this Beaver in the Viaduct today. Since it has no country pre-fix in the registration, I assumed it is a NZL aircraft (ZK-AMA). However,
112 PA515 : ZK-AMA DHC-2 Mk1 c/n 1477 HEX C820D8 Auckland Seaplanes Limited, 28 Dedwood Terrace, Saint Marys Bay, Auckland 1011 Remember seeing something on one o
113 aerorobnz : At the moment NCJ looks to be the aircraft heading down to the Ice on the 5th at 0500. It will return to AKL and head to DPS. Not ideal for photos. As
114 Post contains images zkeoj : wow - thanks heaps for teh superfast response! Strange that it doesn't come up on any of the rego websites... Now I have it though Cheers micha
115 kiwirob : NZ now have two logos on their planes, the Koru and the Emirates Team NZ/Govt Tourism Trade and Industry Silver Fern, Qantas and Air Canada only have
116 Post contains links and images kiwirob : Sure is. [Edited 2013-09-29 06:17:46]
117 Post contains links mariner : Interesting snippet from te AGM: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/busine...ew-zealand-looks-for-new-alliances "Air New Zealand looks for new alliances Ai
118 Post contains images aerorobnz : If we are looking at the next destinations in terms of growth for the next 3 years, I think it is likely they will all have a new partner. know the d
119 ZK-NBT : Interesting yes, likely? Either way hopefully they will start POM-AKL. You are a tease as usual, lol. South America then. AV or even LAN? With NZ to
120 byronicle6 : I think a South East Asian partner is needed. I was reading an article just yesterday that Indonesian travel to NZ was up by about 50% and Malaysian u
121 ZK-NBT : How about the current codeshare with OZ via SYD? NZ and KE had some code share on the AKL-NAN/BNE/GMP route back in the 1990s. Both probably since NZ
122 aerorobnz : Currently aircraft sit for 8-12h+ in HKG/LAX/SFO/YVR/PVG and AKL That is not good utilisation especially if you are adding routings. Compared to a ca
123 sunrisevalley : I note that fleet utilization for the 77W as at June 30th was 15-hr. day and for the 77E 13.36-hr. day. These seem a little lower than a few years ea
124 777ER : Unless you expect NZ to re-paint all its aircraft overnight world wide then yes obviously NZ is going to have two different liveries, but if you also
125 Post contains links xiaotung : http://www.smh.com.au/business/jet-i...ian-route-buzz-20130929-2umgk.html This article in the Sydney Morning Herald yesterday seems to suggest that Je
126 nascarnut : Today, Oct 1st signifies final EK 777 service into AKL. Tomorrow AKL becomes the second city in the EK network that will have 3 A380's om the ground a
127 nirvarma : I see ZK-OKB left AKL this morning as NZ6019 for SIN? Is this a special charter or something else? Cheers NV
128 aerorobnz : Yes a charter. The first of a few coming up. mix of 744/772s I think SQ will not be upgrading any more.
129 aerokiwi : So why discuss any decision ever made? And calling it "moaning" doesn't make it so. I vote for "throbbing" as a fair compromise. Three, roughly speak
130 zkncj : Add to that a Blue tail stand koru with ex SJ faded sun 733
131 zkojq : A6-ECQ operated the final service. Which is the first? Or is it their home @ DXB? True. Hope someone gets a good photo of it there.
132 timb777 : I'm not sure what this would 'free them up' to do? My understanding has always been that they operate the Tasman flights simply because they would ot
133 zkncj : Why on earth would they take the widebody of the Tasman/Pacific Islands? as mentioned above that they would other wise be sitting on the ground all d
134 Post contains links and images NZ107 : And to add to that, the Star Alliance liveried A320.. Sure did.. And spotting at AKL just got a little more boring! Bring on the CZ 787 at the end of
135 ZKSUJ : Notice how both A380s today had to wait on the taxiway for a gate. You'd think they'd put the SQ77W and a 738 somewhere else and not clog up the A380
136 kiwirob : You missed my point completely, the new NZ livery now has two logos on it, the Emirates Team NZ Silver Fern thingo and the Koru, it's a mess, qantas
137 aerorobnz : That will be boring real quick.It's an even smaller fleet than the 332s A mix of School holidays, special fares to fill surplus seats, aircraft upgau
138 aerorobnz : SQ had a minor technical issue which delayed it by an hour which was just enough to cross with the arrival of the second A380, EK406 was going to be
139 777ER : Well Aerorobnz was talking about putting A321 with J seating on the Tasman to enable the wide body aircraft to be removed to enable a better long hau
140 aerorobnz : Correct. NZ4 0545 NZ6 0815.
141 sunrisevalley : Why not IAH for one of them?
142 DavidByrne : The present long-haul schedule has evolved to faciltate connections at both ends for the North American flights and at the far end for Asian flights.
143 DavidByrne : NZ3/4 appears to have a longer "season" each year, and I agree that IAH would be the next most logical destination in North America, and could be int
144 koruman : Aerorobnz, Bear in mind that the full-service (wide body) flight from BNE arrives year round at AKL at 1730. Unless you're going to reintroduce Busine
145 NZ107 : And the more annoying aspect is that the fern is larger than the koru, which seems to place more significance on the fern. I still wonder what it'd l
146 ZKSUJ : I know what you're saying and I am in no way suggesting that A380s take priority. I just think that it is a bit slack of AIAL to let things get this
147 aerorobnz : Precisely. Because you're in QLD I'll use BNE and OOL as my example. Take today for example, we have NZ135 as a 773 this morning 0930, and NZ139 at 1
148 nz2 : Hi Guys My wife and I are doing our bi-annual trip to Hawaii next Thursday 10th, travelling up in Y+ (772 and hoping of upgrage to Biz using 1 up) and
149 NZ107 : Nope, all the availability showing is Y2 B1. What a packed flight!
150 timb777 : This would undoubtedly make the EK380 the premium AKL-BNE-AKL service the one to book for savvy premium fliers. I wouldn't be surprised if NZ likes t
151 koruman : Aerorobnz, Your model is fine, but it might be a bit light on Tasman Business. A fortnight ago I took the same NZ136 BNE-AKL as the Springboks, booked
152 aerorobnz : I pondered that, then I thought no, that is the domain on the 772 & 789 fleets to build up the new routes. I was specifically talking of the 77W
153 ZKOJH : With PVG think it comes down to the same issue NZ had with PEK 'SLOT' allocation, However PVG will build 2 new runways in the next couple of years whi
154 aerorobnz : That is not the norm tho, based on my workplace observations even for a flight such as NZ101/NZ123/135. I'd agree I may be light initially, but my mo
155 timb777 : Agreed, I guess frequency is NZ's strength on the Tasman. While an EK J class AKL-SYD evening flight can be a great way to relax after a day's work i
156 NZ107 : SYD isn't happening anytime soon due to their curfew. Even if there was no curfew, 2.5-3 hr flights aren't long enough to get any sleep and then you
157 timb777 : What time is the SYD curfew? Is it 10pm or midnight? If before 11pm it could present a problem. Before CHC-MEL flights I tend to only get 3 hours or
158 NZ107 : 11. Regardless of the curfew, SYD-AKL would not work. And that's the flight one would look to start first (ex-SYD), naturally. Hence why I said a nig
159 aerorobnz : Yep it is good aircraft utilisation, especially as it can be used to feed new aircraft into the NZL ops, and the evening departure from AKL the previ
160 timb777 : Hard to say. I know several MEL based business travellers who are willing to pay more for the JQ overnight MEL-CHC flight than the earlier NZ / VA op
161 cchan : Although I would very much love to see the 77W doing AKL-HKG, I doubt if NZ need that capacity. Most of the time, the 77E aren't full. With the codes
162 koruman : Why fly AKL-IAH at lunchtime? It would wipe out feed to/from Australia and increase jet lag. I think the current bank of evening flights to North Amer
163 777ER : Thought so. An arrival into LAX at that time would benefit way more passengers then a 12.30pm or 2.30pm arrival as we currently have, only problem is
164 aerorobnz : they all need to be staggered one way or another. Valid points , my preference would be for am 0030 departure which would equate to about a 7pm landi
165 Post contains links and images kiwirob : Sure are, Emirates Team NZ and Air New Zealand have the exact same NZ Govt Silver Fern on them.
166 DavidByrne : Subtle distinction, but there's a lot of emotion expressed about the silver fern being a "government" symbol. I'd argue that the silver fern is actua
167 sunrisevalley : The present NZ2/6 flights are worthless for east coast connections from LAX. I believe they need to arrive before 10am to be of any value. But using I
168 zkeoj : the only problem with the NRT service is that inbound connectivity from Europe is poor. Every time I do this, I have about 8 hours in NRT, since the
169 koruman : The inability to connect to the East Coast is more than offset by the fact that the scheduling minimises jet lag by allowing sleep at a reasonable tim
170 Post contains links gytr31 : Some drama on an Eagle Air flight into Nelson today with smoke 'pouring' into the cockpit according to media reports. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/
171 timb777 : Anyone know how long the 1900d's been on WLG-NSN? I was under the impression (obviously wrongly) that this route was all Q300[Edited 2013-10-02 23:14
172 nz2 : You are correct, Shipping Corp of NZ or "SCONZ" for short
173 ZKSUJ : Maybe a positioning flight or extra capacity? I thought it was all Dash 8's as well, thought it was only PMR that had the 1900s into NSN
174 ZKSUJ : Actually after looking at the timetable it shows a scheduled B1900 on an afternoon flight
175 A330NZ : Looking at the NZ website and the flight schedules link, there are only 4 weekly 1900D flights. As there are also 70 weekly Q300 flights, it's unders
176 777ER : If I fly directly to DTW, I'm always on a red-eye to ORD then an 8am flight to DTW, so a morning arrival (8am-10am) into LAX would work perfectly for
177 sunrisevalley : so far as I can ascertain it is possible to get LAX-BNE/SYD/MEL-AKL on VA PE for about $1000 less than LAX-AKL on NZ. If I can get a PE equipped VA co
178 PA515 : Since 12th July when NSN-PMR-NSN, NSN-PMR-WLG-PMR-NSN started. It enables the overnighting NSN 1900D to circulate through the network and it's otherw
179 mr airnz : I've looked it up. The HLZ-WLG portion was a positioning flight with crew only, no passengers. The shift went to Westport also, not Wanganui.
180 PA515 : Air NZ had daylight LAX-AKL flights with the 744 between 1999 and 2003/2004, but then tried overnight LAX-CHC instead. Could be time for a two or thr
181 koruman : As I wrote earlier, I would strongly caution against daytime flights to the USA being more business-friendly for passengers connecting eastwards. A 3p
182 sunrisevalley : I can appreciate what you are saying. But for those of us on our way home into the EDT zone we might as well get the pain over and done with
183 timb777 : Thanks for the responses! ~ repositioning for the NSN-PMR flight makes sense Correct, VA is consistently cheaper ex NZ in PE. I have booked CHC-BNE-L
184 sunrisevalley : I can appreciate what you are saying. But for those of us on our way home we might as well get the pain over with. So you were able to get PE trans-T
185 Post contains images timb777 : Row 1 or 2 on the 737, what ever food / drink you demand & Koru Lounge access prior to the TT sectors....
186 aerorobnz : you will notice the timings I suggested NZ2 does not change, so NZ can still over you what you want if you so desire. As I said before, NZ needs each
187 Post contains links mariner : Air NZ had been given approval by the (Aussie) Treasurer to life its stake in Virgin Australia by another 3%, taking it to 25.9%: http://www.nzherald.
188 Post contains links 777ER : Problem solved.....AKL departure between 4-5pm! Not every long haul flight is designed for business travellers, if it was then there would only be ar
189 Post contains links and images EK413 : Here's a screen shot of the inaugural EK A380 DXB-BNE-AKL service EK8413
190 ZK-NBT : I remember these. SFO had a daylight return on 1 service briefly not long after it started, 2004/05. Arrived AKL around 2245 IIRC. NZ 5 weekly to HNL
191 Post contains links and images EK413 : From EK Facebook page thought I'll share https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...033&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf EK8413
192 gasman : It's an impressive sight. And when (not if) they start AKL-LAX; NZ may as well pack up its international division and go home.
193 aerorobnz : I don't think they are entitled to operate that route. as part of T-T bilaterals. They have 5 rtn flights day from memory and I cannot see QF being h
194 Post contains images gemuser : I too have seen those three things, plus I am a 10 abreast B777 hater! Most uncomfortable flights ever! And that includes DC-3s in PNG in the 1960/19
195 gasman : Mine too - although "relatively" is the key word here. While I have found fault in both the J and F Class soft product, the hard product and pricing
196 Post contains images gasman : Me also, as I've said repeatedly on this forum to everyone else's utter boredom. But the difference between EK and NZ as far as this is concerned, is
197 mariner : Air NZ survived on AKL-LAX when Qantas was flying the route - I don't know why it wouldn't survive Emirates. My last Emirates flight AKL-BNE there we
198 gasman : Because - Emirates can put an A380 on the route, which blows NZ's 77W out of the water - Pricing is likely to be competitive (as opposed to the QF/NZ
199 777ER : Would EK be able to supply the aircraft but have the route operated by QF? Maybe EK could have some B77W painted into QF livery (if they feel an A380
200 ZKOJH : Is this the biggest increase ever for the HNL service for NZ? NZ will add an additional 4th weekly service from 22JUN14 , however the airline will als
201 mariner : That hasn't happened trans-Tasman (the only direct parallel we have) where Emirates loads are very hit or miss, especially in the premium classes. It
202 zkncj : First ice flight this morning, any come across any pics of the 763 once the ice?
203 haggis73 : NZ6041 postponed till tomorrow due weather at Pegasus.
204 Post contains links 777ER : New Zealand Aviation Part 135 (by ZKOJH Oct 4 2013 in Civil Aviation)
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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 127 posted Sat May 4 2013 13:54:12 by cchan
New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 126 posted Thu Apr 18 2013 18:09:43 by 777ER
New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 125 posted Tue Mar 19 2013 18:48:46 by NZ1
New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 124 posted Sun Feb 10 2013 21:52:16 by 777ER
New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 123 posted Tue Jan 1 2013 02:08:17 by SA7700