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How Has The 787 Been Performing Lately? (Part 1)  
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2252 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 59891 times:

Interested to know how the 787 has been performing lately. Not much news or discussion other than problems Norwegian seems to be having on a recurring basis with them, being discussed in another thread. Have delays and cancellations at other airlines come down to acceptable levels yet? Appreciate any info.

250 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 59714 times:

According to this, so far, 84 aircraft delivered, 35,000 flights, 7M. passengers flown, 50M. miles covered............

http://flighttracker.newairplane.com/



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 833 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 months 5 days ago) and read 59184 times:

According to ANA's post modification website, overall pretty well. In last week over 400 flights only 1 was cancelled and 1 was delayed. With that being said, they seem to be having quite of bit of issues with the electrical system.

https://secure.ana-g.com/anacom/cgi-bin/787/pdf/service_e.pdf


User currently offlineglbltrvlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 58811 times:

I'm scheduled on the United 787 from LAX to Shanghai later this week. Looking forward to it.

User currently offlinehkcanadaexpat From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2012, 505 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 58691 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 2):
In last week over 400 flights only 1 was cancelled and 1 was delayed.

ANA's stats should be taken with a grain of salt. They keep 5 spare 787s (2 domestic + 3 international) at all times. Helps keep the schedule look like its working like clockwork. That being said, its an expensive proposition for any airline to keep that many frames on standby at all times...

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 3):
United 787 from LAX to Shanghai later this week.

I hope you don't have a domestic connection in PVG or dinner plans that night in Shanghai. That flight is notoriously late. I reckon 3 out of 4 is late. Fingers crossed you get one of the lucky ones that's on time!
A


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 57721 times:

Interesting notations from ANA:

Sept 5: flight canceled due to damage to fuselage. The notes state necessary maintenance was carried out and the plane returned to service. An instance of ramp rash of some sort? At any rate, the fix doesn't appear to be that remarkable.

Aug 25: Flight delayed 30 mins due to lightning strike "near the spot area" whatever that means. Certainly didn't take long to sort out that issue.

These two entries are notable because they are two of the challenges raised early on in developing the 787 - repairing the fuselage and effect of lightning strikes. It appears neither issue was remarkable in terms of getting the planes back in service. Nice!


User currently offlineglbltrvlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 57693 times:

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 4):
I hope you don't have a domestic connection in PVG or dinner plans that night in Shanghai. That flight is notoriously late. I reckon 3 out of 4 is late. Fingers crossed you get one of the lucky ones that's on time!

Shower, dinner and bed is all that is on the agenda, but I hope it isn't too late arriving. Now you have my curiosity up - will go look at the history.


User currently offlineswallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 554 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 57591 times:

And right on cue, AAB chimes in...

there are “still issues and Boeing is aware of that. And they need to resolve these issues very quickly because Qatar Airways is getting very frustrated with them.

“There are so many teething problems... although it is not anything major that would require us to ground our aircraft, it is enough to give us grief on our dispatch reliability,” says Al Baker



http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ut-continuing-787-problems-390629/



The grass is greener where you water it
User currently offlineglbltrvlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 57250 times:

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 4):
That flight is notoriously late.

Took a quick look at FlightAware history and the past two weeks don't look too bad. Looks like they are adjusting the departure time for winds as those are a minimum 30 minutes later than the schedule, but the arrivals for all but two flights are pretty much bang on with two exceptions. The flight yesterday was 5 hours late leaving LAX and 4 hours late arriving and one a couple weeks ago was about an hour late.

Funny how our expectations have changed over the years. Wasn't that long ago that arriving on the scheduled day would have been good enough.


User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 6729 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 56970 times:

"The decision about which aircraft to order will be driven by “how the problems are fixed and how we are convinced that we have confidence that the problems will be fixed."
Ok so here we have an executive of an airline publicy stating that the decision to purchase a/c is not always about which a/c better suits their needs, accomodates their market and performance specifications compared to the alternatives.
Can we now dispense with the A.Net myth that politics and non-a/c performance issues have nothing to do with orders?


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2252 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 56762 times:

AAB's closing remark in the FlightGlobal article is pretty blunt: "“If we have to move away from the -8 due to the issues we have, then we may look at interim A330s.”

He has been fairly quiet and a strong defender of the 787 at least in public (he called the grounding stupid), but seems to be on the verge of losing patience...


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29689 posts, RR: 84
Reply 11, posted (7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 56706 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting sankaps (Reply 10):
He has been fairly quiet and a strong defender of the 787 at least in public (he called the grounding stupid), but seems to be on the verge of losing patience...

He could also be on the verge of converting those 30 options to firm orders at the Dubai Air Show. He does seem to prefer negotiating via public statements.   

I mean how quickly can he get A330-200s?


User currently offlineSelseyBill From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2013, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 53543 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
I mean how quickly can he get A330-200s?

I'd imagine he has JL on speed-dial on his phone, and I'd also imagine that JL would 'find' 30 A332's for QR pdq, and attached to a pretty nice price-tag too.

I'd also imagine the executives in Toulouse would love to have a headline or two reporting 787 orders being replaced by A330's.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 8773 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (7 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 53394 times:

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 12):
and attached to a pretty nice price-tag too.

Price tag should be the least concern for Mr Baker.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offline7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1317 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (7 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 53075 times:

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 4):
ANA's stats should be taken with a grain of salt. They keep 5 spare 787s (2 domestic + 3 international) at all times.


I don't know about that. With the flight rate they were hitting in early September (up to 76 flights a day--normally around 70) I don't see how they could do that with a fleet of 20 airplanes with 5 of them parked. They must be doing 5-7 flights a day with their domestic fleet. Also in cases where the standby airplane was used, it would be hard to get the flight off within their 2 hour reporting requirement so we'd see more substitutions on their website.


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1333 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 50554 times:

United had a plane stuck in China for a week.

UA 787 NRT-ORD 09-07-13 (by airfinair Sep 9 2013 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 50447 times:

Quoting ADent (Reply 15):
United had a plane stuck in China for a week.

Another frame was apparently out of service in DEN for a week as well, seems they just conducted a post-mx flight:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26906


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 49573 times:

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 4):
ANA's stats should be taken with a grain of salt. They keep 5 spare 787s (2 domestic + 3 international) at all times. Helps keep the schedule look like its working like clockwork. That being said, its an expensive proposition for any airline to keep that many frames on standby at all times...

Well this is pretty typical of the Japanese process.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 5):
Aug 25: Flight delayed 30 mins due to lightning strike "near the spot area" whatever that means. Certainly didn't take long to sort out that issue.

Twitter confirms there was a huge thunderstorm nearby that day. A lightning bolt struck a commuter train earlier in that day too. So it was basically for severe weather.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1333 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 47782 times:

N27901 didn't fly 30 Aug, 23 Aug thru 25 Aug.
N26902 didn't fly 09 Sep, 29 Aug thru 06 Sep (ferry flight on 07 Sep), 17 Aug thru 20 Aug
N27903 didn't fly 17 Sep, 08 Sep, 28 Aug, 19 Aug, 09 Aug thru 12 Aug
N20904 didn't fly 13 Aug.
N45905 didn't fly 21 Aug.
N26906 didn't flu 11 Sep thru 16 Sep, 28 Aug thru 29 Aug, 14 Aug
N29907 has flown every day since 10 Aug

Based on flight aware data.


User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1144 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (7 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 46295 times:

Hi,

For Norwegian the 787 reliability has been nothing less than a disaster so far. One plane was grounded for technical reasons for days messing up the whole long haul schedule and causing badwill among passengers.



747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 45730 times:

Per passenger reports, LO 787s notoriously have issues with their in-flight entertainment system. The plane itself though seems to be doing fine, save for minor growing pains.


All Hail Mighty Triple Seven, The MURDERER of the so-called "Queen"!!!!
User currently offlinephotoshooter From Belgium, joined Feb 2010, 450 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 44142 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Quoting ADent (Reply 18):

N27901 didn't fly 30 Aug, 23 Aug thru 25 Aug.
N26902 didn't fly 09 Sep, 29 Aug thru 06 Sep (ferry flight on 07 Sep), 17 Aug thru 20 Aug
N27903 didn't fly 17 Sep, 08 Sep, 28 Aug, 19 Aug, 09 Aug thru 12 Aug
N20904 didn't fly 13 Aug.
N45905 didn't fly 21 Aug.
N26906 didn't flu 11 Sep thru 16 Sep, 28 Aug thru 29 Aug, 14 Aug
N29907 has flown every day since 10 Aug

Based on flight aware data.

Wonder if they planned this or were forced to do so. Both would be very sad. I've logged the NAX 787 last summer and it was the best flight ever. Any news from the TUI group? Are they having problems? Can't wait to see JAF B787!

Photoshooter   



'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1618 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 43918 times:

The worst thing about the DY incidents is that the plane worked perfectly fine on European operations. But it does seem to me that Boeing delivered the first aircraft without enough maturity in the test program. This has got to be one of the most disasterous new aircraft launches of all time?

The A380 had its problems, but never anything lasting this long. Even SQ said that during the first few months of A380 operations they had very good dispatch reliability.



Next Flights: LHR-LBA (319-SK), MAN-ARN (736-SK), ARN-LHR (763-BA), LHR-CPH (CR9-SK), CPH-LHR (320-SK), LHR-IAH (744-BA)
User currently offlineBaconButty From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2013, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 43717 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 9):
"The decision about which aircraft to order will be driven by “how the problems are fixed and how we are convinced that we have confidence that the problems will be fixed."
Ok so here we have an executive of an airline publicy stating that the decision to purchase a/c is not always about which a/c better suits their needs, accomodates their market and performance specifications compared to the alternatives.
Can we now dispense with the A.Net myth that politics and non-a/c performance issues have nothing to do with orders?

I don't know that there's may on here who would question that politics can influence some orders, though the particular orders that get singled out seem to lack any rational basis. However, isn't there a bit of confirmation bias going on here? AAB is actually saying the reverse - surely dispatch reliability is an aircraft performance metric?



You could do with some brown sauce on that.
User currently offlineracercoup From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 43467 times:

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 22):
The A380 had its problems, but never anything lasting this long. Even SQ said that during the first few months of A380 operations they had very good dispatch reliability.

Comparing the two aircraft is difficult in MHO. Between Oct of the launch year and the following year only 13 A380 were delivered. In Sept of its launch year and the following year 49 787's were handed over to customers. It just seems there are more problems because there are a lot more air frames out there.


25 Lofty : I know Boeing have had to provide engineering teams to some carriers to overcome the issues which has included battery changes and Slow Fuelling. I al
26 SKAirbus : DY had Boeing personnel on its 787 flights when it was trialing the aircraft in Europe. They sat in the front row of the premium cabin and had all so
27 wingman : SInce we reliably know that the 787 is the worst launch of any aircraft in history and a complete disaster for its customers, can someone produce the
28 SonomaFlyer : That is a large overstatement. This is the first "all new" a/c launch in the age of the internetz and instant information. Every burp and hiccup is t
29 KarelXWB : Yes, although that comparison is irrelevant because it was pilot error.
30 sankaps : I think Wingman was being sarcastic.
31 tortugamon : Me too tortugamon
32 seabosdca : I think the lesson here is a good one for any carrier: don't buy a small number of frames of a brand-new type and immediately try to use them in a 16
33 KarelXWB : Ding ding, jackpot. I remember a few interviews with Norwegian's CEO (or a spokesman, don't remember it anymore) before they started long-haul. The m
34 par13del : Yep, so the performance of the any future Boeing or Airbus product is?????? Essentially he is throwing all future OEM products under the bus regardle
35 SelseyBill : Do we know the status of the ET B788 that caught fire @ LHR ? Is it being repaired or written-off ? (Apologies if this has already been discussed/ re
36 mham001 : The article I read quoted the Norwegian CEO? saying that they had had no real problems until these recent ones, so your statement is somewhat hyperbo
37 Post contains images EPA001 : Spot on! I guess he is. But in the end we will see the B787 stabilise her performance, but the question for the customers is of course "when?"
38 Revelation : I would not use the word "disaster" because (thankfully) there were no lives lost. Maybe I'd call it a "PR disaster" or "fiscal disaster" but even th
39 SonomaFlyer : Not necessarily. I'm not claiming these are good events but nothing like what's happened to Airbus or McDonnel-Douglas. It might be that Boeing blew
40 by738 : Not seen many recent delays on any of the recent TOM 787 flights
41 Post contains links KarelXWB : Small issue, an UA 787 diverted on a DEN-NRT flight due to a flap indicator light. http://twitter.com/FriendlySkies1K/status/380932224738029568
42 wingman : I've always been proud, and quite amazed, that Airbus has never suffered a single crash due to anything wrong with its aircraft. As Karel says, all t
43 KarelXWB : There is always room for improvement but it is usually up to the airline to decide how far they go.
44 StTim : No frame maker will be too loud about safety and crashes - even lack of them. Such words could very easilly come back to haunt them if there was a man
45 sankaps : Again, I think Wingman was being sarcastic. He does raise an interesting point though: Are there any Airbus crashes where the ultimate cause was not p
46 Post contains links KarelXWB : Yes, an American Airlines A300 once lost a rudder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_587[Edited 2013-09-20 08:39:15]
47 sankaps : That was an A300-600, but even that was blamed on excessive rudder movements commanded by the pilots. At AA pilot training had to change as a result.
48 EPA001 : It does, but it was more like an operational error by the whole of AA when they were flying with the A300.
49 BlueSky1976 : Not a good week at LO: two of their 787s are grounded due to faulty fuel filters, most likely it is a manufacturing defect. EuroAtlantic 777 and 767 w
50 bonusonus : Pilot Error isn't always black and white though. Confusing/conflicting indicators and an input system that lacks feedback from the other pilot's comm
51 KarelXWB : True, pilot error is usually a combination of many factors. But in case of AF447, a proper stall training would have helped.
52 billreid : I think this is completely unfair. The A380 was not new technology at a level equivalent to the B787. Remember that the A380's order book has gone DO
53 AirIndia111 : Air India's VT-ANM was grounded in FRA for the past 48 hours. It has just taken off as AI 120D back to Delhi. Apart from this, AI hasn't had any other
54 Post contains images KPDX : Well, to add on to this, aren't the majority of the 787's current problems caused by the electrical systems? If I understand correctly, they are quit
55 EPA001 : Oh yes, the A380 at EIS easily was at least as much new tech as the B787 is now. But let's focus on the B787 instead of other aircraft from whatever
56 EPA001 : They are not. They are a choice by Boeing and supposed to be simpler with the ability to operate with less maintenance in the future. The problems ar
57 ADent : Not a great week for UA. - There was a diversion to Anchorage (N27901 on DEN-NRT). Aircraft enroute to DEN. - A plane down for a day in China (N26902
58 justloveplanes : Faulty fuel filters sounds strange to me. More likely fuel filters plugged way to early from less than clean components from Boeing subs or from rewo
59 packsonflight : When 787 is AOG and taken out of service for couple of days and the flight substituted with, say 777 does that affect the dispatch rate in a negative
60 sankaps : It is a good question. My hypothesis is that the immediately impacted flight may count against the dispatch rate, but the following flights that are
61 par13del : I can only see one major flaw in this form of thinking, that is the product that Boeing initial offered. The 787 was offered up to the airlines as a
62 travelavnut : What has this to do with the subject at hand??!!
63 BlueSky1976 : Please don't feed the troll.
64 Post contains links 7BOEING7 : Looking at the ANA data, since June 1st they've flown 7575 flights and have had 36 "issues" for a 99.5% "successful" flight rate. Take it ant way you
65 sankaps : Anyone have a definite answer for the hypothesis below? If one of the 36 "issues" results in a 787 being AOG for 5 days and 20 flights requiring subs
66 VV701 : BA operated its first 787 revenue rotation on 9 August (LHR-ARN-LHR, BA780/81) with two aircraft delivered and available. This same flight then operat
67 billreid : Seriously? The A380 wasn't the quantum leap that the A350 is or the B787 is. Big doesn't translate into new technology. I read that the B787 uses six
68 Post contains images NAV20 : I suspect that part of the picture is a perennial problem in journalism; that, on any given day, there are a lot more stories being contributed by th
69 Post contains links sankaps : New technology is only useful if it is both cost-effective AND reliable. Don't think a discussion of which aircraft -- the 787, A350, or A380 has the
70 davies2911 : Does anyone know how TOM are managing with thier fleet of 787's? The days ive looked online they seem to be doing ok with them?
71 Pygmalion : First flight December 2009, first delivery Sept 2011. Its not that new but its first flight was less than 4 years ago. It is now two years in service
72 sankaps : Apologies, you are correct -- I meant roll-out was 6 years ago, and EIS two years ago.
73 StTim : Ah yes - but you have to remember that the Roll Out proved to be a stunt. That date should be forgotten. I bet many at Boeing wish they could forget i
74 Post contains links Kengo : Per this article, DY demanded a meeting with Boeing executives later this week. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/norweg...mands-better-boeing-114548215.
75 par13del : It was also grounded for a few months, so as with all statistics there is some truth or lack thereof if someone takes it that the a/c has been in con
76 EPA001 : Yes it most certainly was. There were so many firsts on the A380, the list is long. There were more firsts in aviation in the A380 then on the B787 i
77 seabosdca : No one is alleging, and the data does not come remotely close to supporting, an "operational rate of less than 50%." And it's just reality -- reality
78 Post contains links glbltrvlr : I just did my first 787 flight a few days ago UA 198 LAX-PVG. Complete report is here: 787 - UA198 (LAX-PVG) (by glbltrvlr Sep 21 2013 in Trip Report
79 Post contains links blueshamu330s : Another news article in the constant stream of what seems to be bad news or the Dreamliner recently, this time affecting two LOT frames, SP-LRB and 'L
80 Bongodog1964 : What was the time keeping like ? last minute substitutions will show up as a flight delay.
81 sankaps : Norwegian received their first 787 on June 29, and put them on long-haul on August 16. Prior to Aug 16, they were used on intra-Europe short-hauls. T
82 Pygmalion : They only had one frame until August. You cant do long haul and 11-12 hour flights with one frame and do daily service. As soon as they had two... th
83 ADent : Just whipped up some numbers. UAs 787s have sat on the ground 12% of their days since Aug 1. 11% in Aug and 14% so far in Sep. N26902 has been on the
84 Sooner787 : Anybody care to crunch nbrs on 787 reliability between the delivered frames that went thru post-factory re-work versus the later builds that didn't re
85 hkcanadaexpat : Are you including the calc that UAL's current 787 flight schedule requires only 6 frames while they have 7 on hand (ie UAL has one spare on hand). I
86 ADent : Nope. Of the 46 days since the 7th plane entered regular service - on 8 days all 7 flew, on 32 days 6 flew, and on 6 days only 5 flew. On 13% of the
87 hkcanadaexpat : those are the problem days where there were cancellations and/or type subs. 6-out of-46 is still very high rate. would be interesting to see if the t
88 7BOEING7 : Since the beginning of September JAL (with 11 airplanes) has scheduled either 18 or 20 flights every day (520 flights total) with 2 roundtrips being s
89 Post contains links sankaps : LOT 787 Lands diverts to Iceland because of ID System Issue http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...n-identification-system-issue.html
90 mjoelnir : No flights delayed because of technical problems?
91 Post contains links 7BOEING7 : Not from the looks of it. They're pretty forthcoming with information. http://www.jal.com/cms/en/corp_00229.html
92 mjoelnir : I had a look at the table it runs from June to 28th of September. During that time there are 1849 flights and 22 delays of more than 15 minute because
93 flood : Not quite, as the table states "Departure Delay More Than 2 Hours" - rather than 15 minutes. From July through August I estimate they were operating
94 B777LRF : Sounds like transponder failure, but they were allowed to enter Oceanic airspace for a FL270 (below RVSM airspace) crossing. And while pottering alon
95 KarelXWB : The transponder went tech? First time I heard about this issue.
96 Post contains links KarelXWB : A statement from Boeing: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...chile-boeing-idUSBRE98T0N920130930
97 LO231 : So true, I flew on SP-LRA and SP-LRB back in January, flights were perfect on European promotional flights to BRU, BUD, LHR or Germany.... Once they
98 BestWestern : How many stand-by aircraft were required to meet this departure standard?
99 LO231 : flood, by this, Ircan quote maaaaaany European big carriers that dont depart on time from US.... Its not their policy, is US standard. Slots dont mat
100 Post contains links VV701 : "Norwegian Air said its grounded Boeing 787 Dreamliner could return to short haul service later this week and is so confident in the aircraft it will
101 Post contains links justloveplanes : As I recall, the strike required no repairs, it was just inspection? From http://airguideonline.com/2013/10/02...hort-haul-service-later-this-week/
102 hkcanadaexpat : Both Norwegian frames are post-50. EI-LNA is line number 102 and EI-LNB is line number 112. A
103 justloveplanes : So these are on spec aircraft it looks like for weight anyway.
104 Post contains links KarelXWB : Apparently today's UAL94/95 flight has been canceled. The aircraft involved (N29907) has been re-scheduled for IAH-LOS with an 1.5 hours delay. http:/
105 wingman : Are we going to reopen this thread for every delay, diversion, or cancellation of a 787 flight? It'd be like reopening the 380 threads for every day t
106 KarelXWB : This thread was never closed. Secondly, the above post answers the question of the thread starter.
107 wingman : OK, was just wondering. Now we're back to four active and separate 787 bashing threads. Thanks.
108 sankaps : Yup, like the "bashers" are making up the incidents and are somehow responsible for the issues.
109 phxa340 : Unfortunately until this beautiful bird improves her reliability , we are going to continue seeing these threads. For what its worth, UA's DEN-NRT fl
110 SonomaFlyer : People on this board are at the least, curious about how the 787 is performing - including me. The bashers are in a seperate category. It's simple, if
111 KarelXWB : I'm not sure why you see this as bashing. This thread is about the performance of the 787 and an United bird going tech is 100% on-topic.
112 billreid : Last I heard it performs quite well after getting off the ground as do most airplanes. Generally planes are considered not to be performing well if th
113 BestWestern : Using Flight Stats on Denver to Nartia This flight has an average delay of 54 minutes with a standard deviation of 72.28 minutes. Statistically, when
114 copter808 : But why do we have to bring up every little thing?
115 7BOEING7 : Not to say the 787 is the poster child for entry into service but lets add a few more numbers to the mix. In the last 30 days only one airport in the
116 hkcanadaexpat : Here are some more stats: > 94 788s delivered to date > 1 Broken in LHR (Ethiopian) > 5 Haven't Entered into Service Yet (1 for each of LAN,
117 Post contains links BestWestern : http://www.flightstats.com/go/Media/....do?region=us&queryDate=last30Days has Denver right down the list. San Diego - NRT - According to Flight St
118 PHX787 : I heard this one is getting some routine maintenance done. Remember she was the first to be delivered 2 years ago, so she's probably due for a check
119 BestWestern : All the flights with that flight number - so if the aircraft was subbed I cant change it.
120 sankaps : Revealing stats. At least proves there is no smoke without a fire. Even after it gets off the ground, there number if inflight turnbacks / diversions
121 Post contains images EPA001 : We might see them a lot longer then that. The A380, which never had these reliability issues is continuing to attract mostly negative threads here at
122 darksnowynight : Not issues like these, no. I remember more than a few gate calls (mostly no-relief messages coming up and requiring the whole plane to be powered dow
123 par13del : And I think the open question by Sooner787 is a really good one, hopefully it does not have to be moved to the technical forum for participation, fun
124 EPA001 : I think that is a very fair comment which sums it up quite nicely.
125 Post contains links flood : Today's UA199 PVG-LAX operated by N20904 apparently returned to PVG: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N20904 UA lists it as cancelled, don't know wh
126 Post contains images sankaps : Ok, let me say it before the usual suspects: "Why don't you tell us which other aircraft also had turnbacks today"? In all seriousness though, unless
127 flood : Anything's possible. Whatever the reason was, it can't have been very serious as they would otherwise have diverted.
128 BestWestern : Flight stats has a 20% excessive delay and 6% cancellation of LAX PVG for UA This flight has an average delay of 56 minutes with a standard deviation
129 glbltrvlr : Is that based on departure time or arrival time? Having just flown that flight, I noticed that although the departure times were delayed, the week I
130 BestWestern : That's based on departure time. PVG is notorious for delays, so schedules are totally padded. The UA departure time isn't in the craziest period, but
131 PlanesNTrains : Isn't "IF" a lovely word? It opens up so many possibilities. Proportion is great, but I'd hope you'd agree somewhat meaningless given fleet size, age
132 Post contains links flood : It appears JA826J got stuck at DME Sunday due to "failure of one of four elevators" per JAL. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JA826J Departure was r
133 sankaps : How so, Dave? I think having approx 100 frames flying now makes the 787 fleet size large enough to not have huge deviations based on scale relative t
134 PHX787 : So how is PVG so delayed? Is it because it's so cramped?
135 Blueshamu330s : Having crew rest fitted. Rgds
136 BestWestern : Welcome to China!
137 Post contains images PHX787 : Glad I live in Japan Explains the other thread
138 Post contains links BestWestern : Sorry for the crap response earlier... I was on a ferry. Now for the proper answer.. Meanwhile, airspace is limited by the People's Liberation Army,
139 SelseyBill : Because Boeing called it the 'Dream)liner'. Every little experience people have with this aircraft that is not dream worthy, attracts derision. It wa
140 ontime : Both 787 flights from LAX today (UA 32 to NRT and UA 198 to PVG) are delayed again for hours for "aircraft servicing". UA must be taking quite a beati
141 sankaps : Delayed 3 hours and 2 hours respectively, it appears.
142 PlanesNTrains : The 787 has about 93-ish frames active. They are very new overall and some are brand new. The oldest is only a few years old. Comparing them to a fle
143 ontime : UA 198 is now at more like a 5-hour delay. I guess they gave up on fixing the scheduled aircraft and are awaiting the arrival of the next 787 from As
144 sankaps : I agree with that. Similar number of frames in service too (89 vs 111).
145 Post contains links sankaps : As per replies #20 and 24 in this thread Indian Aviation Thread Part 105 (by ojas Oct 13 2013 in Civil Aviation) , Air India has been having a tough c
146 Post contains links KarelXWB : And yesterday, a Norwegian 787 went tech for 19 hours due to brake problems. http://www.nrk.no/norge/norwegians-dreamliner-pa-bakken-1.11321162 The ai
147 flood : Does anyone know if UA cycled their 787s through DEN these past few weeks for hardware updates or was it routine maintenance? They started with ship 9
148 Johnwaynebobbet : Seems BA might have had a few issues recently?
149 klwright69 : And last week flight 142 from IAH to LOS was delayed between 3-4 hours, 2 days in a row! I don't remember if it was Wednesday and Thursday or Thursday
150 kevinkevin : Has TOM had many problems with their 787s. Every time I check FR24 their always up in the air flying back and forth SFB CUN etc
151 Post contains links flood : Today's UA33 NRT-LAX departed around 4 hours late as the inbound apparently had an issue on approach into NRT. http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20131
152 Johnwaynebobbet : Was it just not just delayed 24hrs.
153 flood : Technically, yes. My bad. Status updated to cancelled.[Edited 2013-10-28 17:27:48]
154 sankaps : According to AvHerald, AI's 787 VT-ANN was treated as a "semi-emergency" on Oct 27 when it turned back to MEL. "An Air India Boeing 787-800, registrat
155 Unflug : At first glance, yes. But the posts only show the delays and not the departures that were on time. Looking at the delays only we don't know much abou
156 klwright69 : A new section for LOS-IAH was created today leaving at 2:00 PM in LOS to accomodate the cancelled flight last night. Obviously the need to get the pl
157 sankaps : I don't know Unflug... if one airline alone has 3 to 4 of its 787s (of a fleet of 9) AOG at the same time while others with small fleets are having m
158 Post contains links KarelXWB : A LOT 787 suffered a power failure although it was nothing serious. Story (you'll have to translate the article): http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomos
159 Post contains links sankaps : Air India suffering some new glitches, but strongly defending the 787. An interesting read. Food-for-thought for many who curiously have impression th
160 ferpe : It is obvious the all electric brakes are one of the problem makers. I know the Cseries have them two but BBD says they learned from having them on o
161 Post contains links tortugamon : I am a fan of discussing all in-service 787 issues in this thread instead of a new one every week. There will be other comments. Hopefully we can keep
162 Post contains links BoeingVista : Another cracked windscreen this week, this time on Air India. http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...g-in-melbourne-20131105-2wxvx.html
163 Aircellist : Just curious: how much do these cost? (if somebody knows…)
164 zotan : A330neo will not happen. You can get same result by just heavily discounting current A330s which is exactly what Airbus is doing.
165 flood : Five days into the month and it appears UA has already encountered two ~2hr aircraft servicing delays, two aircraft changes with subsequent 30m / 4.5h
166 tortugamon : In my opinion, when the 787 and A350 backlog drops to reasonable levels (~3 years) the A330 sales will decline dramatically and discounting wont help
167 KarelXWB : The issue is that such an airframe will never be able to match the fuel burn of the A358.
168 XT6Wagon : The A332F sales should take up the slack unless the problems of the cargo market continue. Not at this pace, but a respectable level.
169 bobdino : So down to about 90% dispatch reliability. Ouch.
170 EBGflyer : I saw a QR 788 (probably A7-BCK) parked remotely in CPH yesterday November 5. It seems CPH-DOH on November 3 was cancelled, which means it has been on
171 tortugamon : I am not entirely sure of that. If engine OEMs have until 2022ish, and assuming 777x/737NG type of overall I think it is very reasonable. If an A330
172 Post contains links BestWestern : Dreamliner's technical dispatch reliability in AI - on-time performance - is under 98% when it should be closer to 99.5%. "We have been flying the pla
173 jox : DY7006 is today expected to arrive at ARN around 10,5 hours late, and thus estimated to depart to BKK (as DY7205) almost 10 hours late.
174 EBGflyer : They're improving! DY7006 New York 21:30 11:15 +1 Forsinket (Ny tid: 19:55) - 8 Hours and 40 Mins late DY7205 Bangkok 14:20 06:35 +1 Forsinket (Ny ti
175 Post contains links flood : The delay had originated on prior leg DY7005 ARN-JFK. Originally scheduled 17:35, departed around 02:00. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/E...B/hist
176 RedChili : The plane had techincal problems before an OSL-BKK flight. The return flight was switched with ARN, so that BKK-ARN the following day was also some 2
177 RedChili : EI-LNB was supposed to arrive at ARN from JFK at 11:15 but instead arrived at ARN at 19:30, 8:15 late. It was supposed to leave for BKK at 14:20, but
178 SEPilot : Reading this thread leads me to believe that Boeing had better get their act together very quickly, and solve the problems that so many of the 787's a
179 Post contains links blrsea : Not recent, but came across this twitter feed today. Says that AI's 787 suffered structural damage in the wing due to a burst hydraulic line. This was
180 sassiciai : Isn't this the one that Boeing "took back" and devoted tender loving care to making sure that everything worked! It was away for some time for this.
181 mjoelnir : Yes. And Boeing has been responsible for the service all the time.
182 KarelXWB : Yes, and it's the second issue (which I know of) the aircraft encountered after its last maintenance.
183 WarpSpeed : and, if not, with each new frame delivered, the overall problem will compound and require even more resources to address.
184 7BOEING7 : It looks like ANA has smoothed things out flying 2650 flights since the start of October with only 6 "issues" (per their definition). That works out t
185 SEPilot : Precisely. That is about the best way I know to destroy a company. This is very good news. Now if all of the other 787 operators can achieve comparab
186 wingman : It'd be nice if the people that devote so much of their time and energy reporting every single 787 delay or cancellation would keep a running dispatch
187 KarelXWB : ANA's dispatch reliability is based on a departure within 2 hours while the rest of the world uses 15 minutes. I would be interesting to know how man
188 PlanesNTrains : As gloomy of a thread this is to try to get through, the reality is that the A350 - IMHO - will not have the same level of challenges and there will
189 7BOEING7 : Nobody including ANA said this was their dispatch reliability, it's what both ANA and JAL are using to provide information to the public about how th
190 seabosdca : That was not an in-service 787; it was one of the three undelivered airplanes (VT-ANA, ANB, ANC) currently in Boeing's Everett Modification Center fo
191 Post contains links blrsea : AI reports around 98.2% dispatch rate, and utilizes it around 13 hours per day as per this report. AI using Dreamliners for more hours than global ave
192 sankaps : Based on fare searches for business class for LHR-DEL/DEL-LHR (I have flown this route twice in the last 4 weeks on AI, and did the fare searches mys
193 tortugamon : Thanks for the post. Good to see some good news here. I assume everyone wants to see the 787 fleet where it belongs; in the air flying and making mon
194 LO231 : Say whatever you want, flew on first two frames of LO and I dont complain... Airbusses never go technical or delayed on this website it seems... As Eu
195 7BOEING7 : All five GUN (China Southern) airplanes are airborne at the same time.
196 Post contains images phxa340 : While I appreciate the research, doing a fare search for a 4 week time frame is hardly conclusive evidence of really anything. But I am jealous you g
197 Post contains links KarelXWB : The Air India 787 fleet will undergo software upgrades which should increase the reliability. Story: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...-software/
198 Post contains links KarelXWB : A JAL 787 returns to Helsinki after a battery fault indication. http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...r-battery-fault-indication-392794/
199 Post contains links KarelXWB : Boeing Simplifies 787 Software To Improve Reliability: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/awx_11_14_2013_p0-636703.xml
200 tortugamon : This sounds promising. I am sure it is not a silver bullet but every little bit helps. Hopefully the -9 does not have the same reliability concerns a
201 EPA001 : I would assume a lot of the lessons learned on the B787-8 will lead to improvements on the B787-9. So I don't expect the same level of problems on th
202 HAWK21M : A few recent snags were 1.Pack issues, 2.Dropped out Lower fuselage panel, 3.Cracked Windshield to name a few.....Not quite dramatic like the Battery
203 Speedbird128 : Yesterday I photographed a QR 787 at the remote stands today by the Lufthansa Cargo ramp in FRA. Any idea why it is down there? I wasn't aware the sto
204 Post contains links U271437 : A rare glimpse into the 787 cockpit in flight: http://youtu.be/Af0mB_ownMU
205 klwright69 : UA flight 142 diverted to MIA and was a couple hours late into LOS 2 nights ago. I wonder if it was another mechanical.
206 flood : I'll venture to guess it was medical as they barely spent an hour at the gate in MIA. They still can't seem to catch a break though as just today UA1
207 klwright69 : Probably right on flight 142. Yes, and there are two flights today (at least it's now Saturday in my time zone) on UA from PVG to LAX as a result. Wh
208 7BOEING7 : Let's look at the brighter side: Since the 1st of October thru the 14th of November ANA has flown 3060 flights averaging 68 flights a day with only 6
209 Post contains links DTW2HYD : Last week AI reported their B787 fleet had DR of 98.2% with 13.5 hours usage/day. http://www.financialexpress.com/news...ours-than-global-average/1192
210 sankaps : Dispatch reliability tells us out of every 100 times the aircraft is positioned ready for departure, how many times is was delayed more than 15 minute
211 mham001 : It doesn't do that for any other plane either. What's your point? We need a new metric to fit your agenda?
212 sankaps : 1. I have no agenda. 2. The point is clear: Dispatch reliability does not in any way measure the disruption or "pain" caused when an aircraft goes te
213 Post contains links KarelXWB : Boeing Targets 777 Reliability Levels For 787 in 'Six Months': http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....xml%2Fawx_11_16_2013_p0-637576.xml
214 Kengo : I do notice that there are fewer reports of issues pertaining to the 787, recently, but not sure if is due to the media losing interest or the 787's
215 mham001 : Thanks Karel. Lots of unanswered questions. What exactly do they mean by 'reliability'? How good is 777 reliability? What is 787 reliability? Where w
216 SEPilot : My impression is that the 777 is extremely reliable, and has been from the start. It may have had a few teething issues, but nothing like the 787. Bu
217 Post contains links and images 7BOEING7 : Per the Boeing Company the 777 has a DR of 99.3. http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/777family/pf/pf_facts.page But even the 777 wasn't a happy e
218 BestWestern : The 777 reliability is the gold standard for long haul. It is truly fantastic news if this can be achieved by the end of Q2 next year.
219 Post contains images ferpe : One shall be aware that a large portion of the fault proneness of the 787 does not come from there actually being more things going wrong with the Dre
220 Johnwaynebobbet : Seems BA had a issue with one: British Airways B787-8 G-ZBJC Toronto Technical Issue. November 16, 2013 British Airways Boeing 787-8 G-ZBJC operating
221 Viscount724 : From Transport Canada daily occurence reports: A British Airways Boeing 787-8 (BAW99) from London/ Heathrow (EGLL) to Toronto, ON (CYYZ) advised of a
222 7BOEING7 : In the last 4 days (Nov 27-30) ANA has had 3 delays/1 cancellation on 2 airplanes due to "malfunction of the flight control system" -- I guess the new
223 JAAlbert : On the positive side, the JAL 787s into and out of SAN seem to be running fine. JAL had a hiccup around Nov. 5th and 15th, but otherwise the planes ar
224 lightsaber : I would love to see 777 and 787 dispatch reliability (in say 15 minute blocks) plotted against daily utilization. I suspect we would currently see tw
225 justloveplanes : How many hydraulic systems / redundancy does the 787 have? Was there any degradative effect to the airplane other than diversion to a back up system?
226 Post contains links KarelXWB : Boeing starts updating software on Air India 787 fleet: http://www.travelbizmonitor.com/air-...o-start-repair-work-tomorrow-22456
227 7BOEING7 : There are three main hydraulic systems (L, R, C) + the RAT. With loss of the center system all the flight controls are fully functional (except for t
228 iahcsr : An airline's newest 787 busted far from home and sat for a day waiting on a part to be flown in. Can't say more then that...
229 StTim : Planes go tech all the time. New planes suffer teething issues. The A350 schedule most of us admire will fly 2500 hours in a year. Once flying I suspe
230 flood : I take it you're referring to N27908 which got stuck in Lagos. During their Investor's Day conference, Compton apparently stated "the 787 is deliveri
231 mjoelnir : The B 787 is now over two years in use, what time frame do you accept for "teething problems", three years, 5, 10?
232 Pygmalion : there are over 100 787's flying around now.and the fleet is growing. The number of reports of delays doesnt seem to be growing, a-net is just keeping
233 KarelXWB : A320s/737s/A330s/777s/A380s have 99+%.
234 Post contains links tortugamon : Rut Roh Shaggy: "Boeing Everett Fire Dept just dispatched to stall 201 to check smoking APU on Jetstar 787 VH-VKB after returning from customer flight
235 justloveplanes : Can the airplane operate on one hydraulic system? How does the RAT figure into hydraulics as a final safeguard?
236 Post contains links KarelXWB : Ethiopian Airlines says its 787 fleet is doing very well with a dispatch reliability of about 95%. http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rlines-plans
237 7BOEING7 : Yes -- all the main flight controls (aileron, flaperon, rudder, elevator) are powered by multiple hydraulic systems. The spoilers are all powered by
238 lightsaber : 99.6% and below is when vendors get hell. I hope the latest software fix brings the 787 over 99.5%. That is where it should be now. Lightsaber
239 by738 : Saw the Ethiopian damaged 787s with its tail remounted again at LHR
240 phxa340 : Does anyone else have any more information on this 787 Jetstar that had smoke coming from it's APU ?
241 Post contains links 7BOEING7 : Flew a C-3 (?) today. I'm guessing that's not what you're looking for though. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE216
242 phxa340 : Actually it kind of answers the question to severity of the incident, which looks like a non-event. Thanks for the info.
243 Post contains images sankaps : 95% is doing well??? Have our expectations fallen that low?
244 RedChili : Just to add some information about Norwegian's 787s, taken from the OSL web site, concerning arrivals in November: DY7002 had 14 arrivals, with 85.7%
245 StTim : On time is dependent on many factors - despatch reliability is a better indicator of frame performance.
246 sankaps : Even better indicator is completion factor relative to flights scheduled on the given aircraft type. This measure incorporates the length of AOGs on
247 HAWK21M : TDR should be in the 99% range to be considered good.
248 BestWestern : Air India reliability is now 97% according to the civil aviation minister Ajit Singh.
249 Nav20 : There's no doubt that ,whatever else, the 787 has changed the market for good, by allowing 'long thin routes' with nine-across capacity. And it just p
250 Post contains links SA7700 : As this thread has become quite long, it will be locked for further contributions. All posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeep
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