Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas  
User currently offlinedkramer7 From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 15039 times:

The equipment used seems to be either B744 or B744ER, not A380.

I am wondering why such an important route for QF which links directly into Partner AA's main hub, would not have the Premium aircraft which also had the longest legs?

Surely an A380 is less likely to be payload restricted than a B744/B744ER?

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMesaFlyGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3124 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 15060 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

A few reasons:

1. Not enough in the fleet at the moment.
2. They cannot profitably fly them on the route because the current a380 doesn't have the range to do so with a full payload. Qf has expressed the desire to use the new IGW a380s on the DFW route when they come on property in the next few years.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 15014 times:

I never thought the A380 had the legs to make it to DFW. Not to mention the 744ER has a pretty large range.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 1):
1. Not enough in the fleet at the moment.

I never thought that was an issue.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1383 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 15001 times:

B744ER is used. There was a thread this week about the first time a B744 (non-ER) was used due to equipment substitution. It was pre-planned to stop in AKL because it doesn't have the range to make DFW-BNE (though it did make it SYD-DFW).

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5571 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14941 times:

Quoting dkramer7 (Thread starter):
B744 or B744ER

Only 744ER. The other day was the first time they have ever used a 744 on the route, and was only because the original aircraft went tech and they therefore subbed whatever they could find at short notice.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 1):
They cannot profitably fly them on the route because the current a380 doesn't have the range to do so with a full payload

  

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
1. Not enough in the fleet at the moment.

I never thought that was an issue.

Technically they could do it, but with no spares in the A380 fleet (3x SYD-LHR, 3x MEL-LHR, 2x SYD-LAX, 2x MEL-LAX, 2x SYD-DFW = 12). I guess that isn't an insurmountable problem as they could sub 747s to cover maintenance.

Range is the biggest issue. The million dollar question right now is whether the route goes HGW A380 or 2x 787 in the future. We will find out in due course, but in the mean time we will have a weekly thread on the subject 



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4980 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14777 times:

Quoting dkramer7 (Thread starter):
Surely an A380 is less likely to be payload restricted than a B744/B744ER?

DFW-SYD is a 16hr + sector on an average day. The 569t MTOW /~292t DOW version will not carry the 484-seats that QF has it is laid out for. Max payload is just over 42t.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5571 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14768 times:

Quoting ADent (Reply 3):
it did make it SYD-DFW

Which is a phenomenal performance!

Does anyone know if they dumped a lot of weight in Sydney prior to departure? If not then the tailwinds most have been roaring that day.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinesolarflyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1081 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14434 times:

My understanding from another thread was it didn't have the range. Would a 777LR be adequate on this route? Why use a four-holer?

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 14402 times:

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 7):
My understanding from another thread was it didn't have the range. Would a 777LR be adequate on this route? Why use a four-holer?

Gotta look back at why SQ is withdrawing the A345 service to NYC:

Why buy a plane for only one or two services?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4980 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (11 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13486 times:

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 7):
Would a 777LR be adequate on this route?

It would haul max volume limited payload on this sector.


User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13205 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 9):
It would haul max volume limited payload on this sector.

At 7,454nm I would think the 77LR could handle the route with relative ease. I know Delta's ATL-JNB route, which is nearly the same distance at 7,333nm, takes on a full load of freight both coming and going more often than not. One thing is for certain, it's a much more capable aircraft for such a long route when it comes to hauling cargo than anything Qantas has in their fleet at the moment.


User currently offlineAM777LR From Mexico, joined Sep 2013, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12992 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
I never thought that was an issue.

Well, why use it on a route where they would have to limit the payload and profit when they can use it on another route that allows full payload?


User currently offlineroseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9633 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12348 times:

This is when Qantas wished it had the 777 since it is really the only plane in production that can make a route like this work. The A359 should be able to along with maybe the 747-8 and 787, but Qantas has focused on the A380 which is not an ultra long range plane yet. EK wants to fly the A380 to LAX but the payload restrictions make it not work economically. If Airbus continues to increase MTOW we might see the A380 work.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12215 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 12):
This is when Qantas wished it had the 777

QF called the 777 an old, outdated airplane and would never buy any. QF also reduced the number of Dreamliners on order. I don't think QF has any money to buy new airplanes.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11625 posts, RR: 33
Reply 14, posted (11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12119 times:

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 12):
EK wants to fly the A380 to LAX but the payload restrictions make it not work economically.

Then why are they launching A380 LAX service later this year?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAY-MD11 From Finland, joined Feb 2001, 472 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11665 times:

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 12):
This is when Qantas wished it had the 777 since it is really the only plane in production that can make a route like this work. The A359 should be able to along with maybe the 747-8 and 787

747-8 doesn't help on this route because it has even less range than a380.


User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11640 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 13):
QF called the 777 an old, outdated airplane and would never buy any.

They're clearly in the minority in those beliefs. And judging from their recent financial performance, perhaps they should have eaten some humble pie and ordered the 777.


User currently offlineroseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9633 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 11480 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 14):

Because airbus has been working on higher MTOW A380s if I understand correctly. When are higher MTOW A380s coming to QF.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11625 posts, RR: 33
Reply 18, posted (11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11309 times:

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 7):
My understanding from another thread was it didn't have the range. Would a 777LR be adequate on this route? Why use a four-holer?

Emirates flies the 777-300ER on DXB-LAX which is also around 7400nm. So the airframe can make the trip, although I'm not sure if some seats are blocked from reservation.

Emirates also used the 777LR on the DXB-LAX route but changed it to the larger 77W because the extra seats generate more revenue than the cargo does.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 343 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11054 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 5):
DFW-SYD is a 16hr + sector on an average day. The 569t MTOW /~292t DOW version will not carry the 484-seats that QF has it is laid out for. Max payload is just over 42t.

This route is right up there on the list of longest non-stop routes. I think it is going to become rank 1 once SQ withdraws the two A345 services SIN to LAX and EWR.



I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11625 posts, RR: 33
Reply 20, posted (11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10978 times:

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 17):
Because airbus has been working on higher MTOW A380s if I understand correctly. When are higher MTOW A380s coming to QF.

The way I understand it, EK will get its first 575t MTOW A380 later this year. They waited for this version to launch LAX A380 service because it can make the trip economical.

If Qantas wants to fly the A380 from SYD to DFW, they could take the 575t MTOW A380 for their last 8 aircraft on order.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineBoeingMerica From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 10124 times:

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 19):

Yes you are correct. It is also important to note the SQ service is on the subfleet of A345s that are in 100biz class seat configuration. I've seen a short documentary on the route, and the demand is there for the route. However, the only plane with the legs is being retired, and the weight of fuel carried really drags down the profit potential.

So, now that the rant is done, SYDNEY-DFW is the longest route with a 'normal' config

BoeingMerica


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4980 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9808 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 20):
If Qantas wants to fly the A380 from SYD to DFW, they could take the 575t MTOW A380 for their last 8 aircraft on order

The first 2 of these are scheduled 2016-2017 and the last 6 for 2018-2020. Looks like the 744ER's will be pulling this duty for a while longer.


User currently offlineafterburner33 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9709 times:

Is this the only route which the 744ER is routinely scheduled on?

[Edited 2013-09-22 14:21:46]

User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4916 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9217 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 13):
Quoting roseflyer (Reply 12):
This is when Qantas wished it had the 777

QF called the 777 an old, outdated airplane and would never buy any. QF also reduced the number of Dreamliners on order. I don't think QF has any money to buy new airplanes.

You sure about QF not having any money? Last time I checked they had close to $3 billion in cash reserves. I understand it might not be a lot when the factor in the size of the QF Group but its still cash.

QF have indicated the remaining 8 A380 frames to feature a 3 class cabin which is a clear indication these aircraft are destined to serve any of the following; SYD-DFW, BNE-LAX, SYD-SCL, SYD-JNB, SYD-NRT.

EK8413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
25 zkokq : So the new aircraft they have been taking from Boeing (737's and 787's soon) as well as the refirbs they have done on all thier long range aircraft s
26 Post contains images RyanairGuru : And other than DFW what would they have done with them? Maybe they could operate QF15 BNE-LAX QF107 LAX-JFK QF108 JFK-LAX QF16 LAX-BNE. So 2 routes,
27 cmf : Isn't it obvious? Because the numbers add up. Why on earth would they say no to good profit?
28 wedgetail737 : QF had a huge order for 787's and they chopped a significant number of them because they were running out of money. $3B in reserves sound like a lot
29 zkokq : Mean while they still have the JQ 787's coming, they have 50 options for 789's for mainline and they are taking 737's? I dont get how you can back up
30 RyanairGuru : Qantas is profitable on a group wide basis, the International division is the only part that is loss making. The loss on their international flights
31 gemuser : Because the numbers didn't add up. The numbers obviously say its better to run the B744ER until the IGW A380 & B787s turn up then buy a one off a
32 wedgetail737 : Ok...thanks for the corrections and thanks for the responses without being RUDE...like zkokq.
33 777STL : If QF wished they had the 77L, they'd go out and purchase a few. And seeing as QF is operating the route with the 744ER, the route must be working fo
34 Post contains images qf002 : Because that's what QF has in their fleet. There's also the fact that SYD-DFW passes through the small part of the Pacific that is restricted under E
35 Post contains images 747m8te : They are used on five routes, in addition to the SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD rotation, they are also routinely scheduled on BNE-LAX-BNE, BNE-SIN-BNE, SYD-SCL-SYD
36 cmf : Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. In the SYD - DFW case it seems they didn't. In the LCY - JFK case it seems they did. In the SIN LAX/EWR i
37 Post contains images EK413 : Did you crunch the numbers right? Introducing one sub type into the fleet is a costly exercise & I'm sure QF explored every avenue prior to order
38 Post contains images gemuser : Gemuser
39 cmf : ??? I don't crunch those numbers. It is for the airlines to do. I answered when it makes sense to add a small subfleet for one or two routes.
40 IndianicWorld : The EK partnership really has given QF International a lift from the malaise it was in, which is a great first step. I really can't see QF expanding g
41 EK413 : That was exactly my point! QF and the ones making the decision which drives the business accessed the B77L. It turned out not viable to operate a sub
42 IndianicWorld : The 77L is also appearing to not be a great option at this rate for carriers, so maybe this wasn't the saviour that a few seem to have thought it was.
43 Post contains images EK413 : Precisely! A number of issues certainly went against the carrier such as on going A380 & B787 delays. EK8413
44 RickNRoll : Their strategy with those two planes made sense to me, then they got hit by the perfect storm.
45 EK413 : The choice of aircraft are perfect for the missions for which QF plan to deploy them on. So, tell me why didn't QF order a sub fleet of B77L's? EK841
46 cmf : Yet again, agree it doesn't look like it makes sense for QF. BA with their two A318s on the other hand look pretty good. You can't make it as simple
47 tjh8402 : How would the 748 have looked on that route? I know it has less range than a 744ER, but I was assuming carrying more people. Would it have the range
48 sunrisevalley : They had more than enough 744's to meet their schedules and no way of lightening up on them because of long term commitments to them. I would guess t
49 Post contains images EK413 : I'm well aware, I was only being sarcastic EK8413
50 Post contains images RyanairGuru : They expected to receive their 787s in 2008 Then again, I know that you already know that
51 PHX787 : My point here was that it's not profitable to buy a fleet of 5 or 6 airplanes to have it on one route. It may look good on paper but further down the
52 BLRAviation : I had the pleasure of flying both the SIN-LAX vv and SIN-EWR many times. At that time SQ had an economy "plus" concept with mini-leg rests flipping u
53 cmf : You need to look at each situation before making statements like that. I don't enjoy it. In fact I hate it. I can't stand the "school book" truths yo
54 Post contains images par13del : So after all that I still don't know if Qantas is loosing money or not Is SQ only using the A345 to the US, they do no regional runs with the spare a
55 Viscount724 : AC bought 2 A345s for YYZ-HKG-YYZ. As far as I recall that's the only route they were used on until replaced with the 77L. They were leased to TAM br
56 par13del : So the same question with the same principle, is the 777L only used on one route? Did AC accept that they made a mistake and did not use the A345 for
57 Viscount724 : AC uses their 6 77Ls on 3 primary routes: YYZ-HKG, YYZ-PVG, and YYZ-YVR-SYD. They occasionally show up on transatlantic routes.
58 ferpe : I checked all this, the 747-400ER and the A380-800 in it's original 560t version have identical full passenger range. To make a more realistic real r
59 par13del : Well if this is the case we will have to accept that the flights are not going full, so since the 747 is not full why put the A380 on with additional
60 cmf : Or that they don't have enough A380s and thus prioritize routes where the profit difference is bigger.
61 Post contains images RyanairGuru : SYD-DFW has excellent loads. DFW-BNE is lower, but that's largely because it is weight restricted with blocked seats.
62 777STL : I'm curious where your expertise comes from to make such a statement? Do you work in a network development/fleet management capacity for an airline?
63 RyanairGuru : To be fair to PHX787, his statements pretty much mirror QFs. Whatever analytical approach/assumptions he used, he is on the money. Hindsight is a bea
64 Bill142 : I would have thought that the reasoning behind not buying a small fleet of 777s is obvious. People here are comparing it to BA buying 2 A318s but it'
65 PHX787 : Yeah only to the US, because all of those planes only have 100 biz class seats (or something like that. Not sure of the specs, but it's not the full
66 Post contains images RyanairGuru : You answered your own question And that's precisely what QF (and many other carriers) bought it for. Of course it hasn't worked out so well, QF were
67 cmf : If the statement had been along the lines of QF did not find it worthwhile to buy a subfleet for those routes I would agree with you. But it wasn't a
68 777STL : While I agree with that, he got himself into trouble when he started making blanket statements. That's the way I interpreted it, anyway. My understan
69 escapehere : BA's 318s are not a sub-fleet, more a sub-sub-fleet. They are just a part of their A320 fleet, with commonality in training and parts, etc. It's like
70 cmf : The proposed rule is "Why buy a plane for only one or two services?" No doubt it helps BA that they have similar models but it is still just 2 planes
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Is The 787 Not As Wide As The 777? posted Sun Apr 15 2007 17:53:31 by JAM747
Is The A380 Visiting BOM On April 25th? posted Sun Apr 15 2007 15:35:55 by Deaphen
Is The A380 Showing Up On Any Scheds Yet? posted Mon Jan 16 2006 00:12:49 by UAL747
Is the A380's Success Dependent On Safety? posted Tue Nov 15 2005 02:04:11 by TaromA380
Why Is The 747 Still Used? posted Mon Aug 9 2004 04:31:05 by DeltaBOS
Why Is The A310 Not That Popular? posted Wed Jun 30 2004 20:16:34 by Utilianpilot07
Why Is The DC9 Not So Great. posted Sun Nov 3 2002 19:15:48 by BR715-A1-30
Why Is The Casa C-295M Not Used As Regional Plane? posted Thu Mar 25 2010 11:08:05 by metjetceo
Is The Industry Not What It Used To Be? posted Tue Jul 31 2001 04:45:32 by Teej13
Why Is The A318 Uneconomical On Short Flights? posted Wed Mar 29 2000 01:39:34 by Boeing 777