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DOT Awards 25 Small Community Air Service Grants  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25403 posts, RR: 49
Posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7408 times:

Another year, another set of awards.

The DOT is out with its decision for the 2013 Small Community Air Development (SCASD) program.

SCASD is meant to help communities enhance air transportation by providing temporary financial support.

Grants can be utilized to attract new air-service by establishing revenue guarantees, cost offsets, or marketing support. Additionally grant funding can be utilized to help retain or expand current service, plus for various airport facility upgrades in order to make them more attractive for air service providers.

For this years grants, due to the federal budget sequester the available award pool funding was reduced to $11.5 million.


17 of the awards are made to communities proposing revenue guarantee and/or marketing support as means to attract new carriers, restore lost service, or provide travelers access to new markets.

o Oxnard/Ventura, California
o Gunnison, Colorado
o Savannah, Georgia
o Hailey, Idaho
o Idaho Falls, Idaho
o Fort Wayne, Indiana
o Springfield, Missouri
o Lincoln, Nebraska
o Wilmington, North Carolina
o Bismarck, North Dakota
o Stillwater, Oklahoma
o Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Pennsylvania
o McAllen, Texas
o Del Rio, Texas
o Richmond, Virginia
o La Crosse, Wisconsin
o Charleston, West Virginia.

4 awards provide marketing support for newly announced or existing services to help draw more passengers.

o Worcester, Massachusetts
o Lawton, Oklahoma
o Klamath Falls, Oregon
o Wenatchee, Washington

3 awards will be used to market current EAS service

o Pelican Consortium in Alaska
o Mississippi Consortium
o Plattsburgh, New York

1 award allows a community to conduct a general public transportation study

o Sanford, Maine


OST-2013-0120

For further details regarding individual grant application proposals, see below thread.
2013 DOT Small Community Air Service Grants (by LAXintl Jul 10 2013 in Civil Aviation)

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7390 times:

For those that want to see the actual documents...

http://www.noticeandcomment.com/DOT-OST-2013-0120-fdt-13627.aspx

http://www.noticeandcomment.com/Orde...9-15-Awarding-Grants-fn-67592.aspx


User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1914 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7275 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

o Richmond, Virginia
o Savannah, Georgia

Really? You have the population and the airline service, but you think you deserve more $$?

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
o Stillwater, Oklahoma

WASTE...OF...MONEY!!!
OKC is only 80 miles down the road and TUL is 90 miles east.


User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7251 times:

Hopefully American Eagle has enough ERJs and DFW gates for some new service! I'd like to see it all come to fruition to DFW:
DFW-DRT
DFW-SWO
DFW-LSE
DFW-BIS

Exciting indeed! 2x daily to each would be a great start!


User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7176 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 2):
OKC is only 80 miles down the road and TUL is 90 miles east.

I disagree. SWO serves a university city. MCI is only 90 miles from MHK and we've got five eagle flights now. It all started with a SCASD grant and some state money.

Granted, not near as much government / military traffic into SWO.


User currently offlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 1473 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7092 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 3):

Hopefully American Eagle has enough ERJs and DFW gates for some new service! I'd like to see it all come to fruition to DFW:
DFW-DRT


CO (or rather Colgan) was able to make IAH-DRT work with the SF340, but falied with the ERJ 135/145.
Given the fact that American Eagle does not have any small turboprops based in DFW, I doubt whether they will be able to succeed in the long term.


User currently offlineroswell41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 781 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7094 times:

What a waste of money. Let the local communities or the states pay for this stuff. People who choose to live in rural areas should not be subsidized by the rest of us. And SAV, RIC and AVP? Give me a break.

User currently offlinetimpdx From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 557 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7030 times:

Oxnard is within 45-50 mins of SBA and LAX and BUR. Richmond is over a million in its metro area.

User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7030 times:

Bismarck, North Dakota

If there's one state that has no need whatsoever for federal assistance, it's North Dakota. Also known as the state in which the starting pay at Wal-Mart is $17 per hour yet most of the stores are severely understaffed.

4 awards provide marketing support for newly announced or existing services to help draw more passengers.
o Worcester, Massachusetts


I don't understand this ... B6's service hasn't even begun, how does anyone know whether any federal help will be needed?

[Edited 2013-09-27 10:30:50]


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7009 times:

Anyone know what the Mississippi Consortium is?

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6892 times:

Great to see FWA on the list again. The FWA proposal was for service to an East Coast hub, something that FWA needs along with a third western hub (DEN? IAH?) to round out their route map, and will be backed by $2M in local money in addition to the SCASD grant.

This is actually FWA's third SCASD grant; the first one was TZ/C8 to MDW. This route was successful to the point where FWA had to expand their parking lot and was only dropped because TZ shut down C8. The second one was for a CUTE system, which has been a big success at FWA. CUTE has helped FWA as a diversion point when other airports are shut down, made gates more flexible, and lowered airline ops costs.

I know that FWA was talking to AA about PHL after the US merger, but with the uncertainty over AA/US, I think that UA to IAD and/or EWR might be a better match; EWR because of the international connections plus NYC O&D and IAD because of the strong local O&D. DL to the LGA hub could also work.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
o Savannah, Georgia

B6 recently announced SAV. I wonder if they could take advantage of this grant to add BOS in addition to already-announced JFK?



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6888 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 9):

Anyone know what the Mississippi Consortium is?

It sounds very menacing, but it's Greenville, Hattiesburg/Laurel, and Meridian.


User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6729 times:

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 6):
What a waste of money. Let the local communities or the states pay for this stuff. People who choose to live in rural areas should not be subsidized by the rest of us. And SAV, RIC and AVP? Give me a break.

So you are saying that people should only live near large airports and cities if they ever have a need to travel, and don't want to drive 2 hours before even getting to the airport. Most of these airports do not have the draw for an airline to do it as cost, but the service is still needed. Maybe I don't want to subsidize your school loans, or the interstate in your state, but I do, we all do.



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7615 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6692 times:

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 5):



CO (or rather Colgan) was able to make IAH-DRT work with the SF340, but falied with the ERJ 135/145.
Given the fact that American Eagle does not have any small turboprops based in DFW, I doubt whether they will be able to succeed in the long term.

To be frank AA at DFW is MUCH better at getting small domestic destinations in the middle of the US to work than UA is (or CO was) at IAH. Its no surprise DFW can make destinations GCK, SAF, GRI, SJT, ACT, MHK, and CID while IAH cannot. The reasons are, simply put, there are more economic ties to DFW from small heartland cities and those cities connect to each other many times.

Its the same reason, IAH can make certain destinations in Central America work that DFW cannot.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlineMesaFlyGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3136 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6506 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 2):
Really? You have the population and the airline service, but you think you deserve more $$?

My thoughts exactly! Is there really no better use for this money than one city that doesn't just have service, it has 757s on a daily basis! The other just landed new LCC service in addition to their existing legacy service.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6497 times:

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 6):
What a waste of money. Let the local communities or the states pay for this stuff. People who choose to live in rural areas should not be subsidized by the rest of us
Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 13):
So you are saying that people should only live near large airports and cities if they ever have a need to travel, and don't want to drive 2 hours

To a certain extent I agree with roswell41. The DOT needs to rethink they way they award SCASD money; especially with a federal deficit of 17 trillion dollars. In my mind the applicant town would have to be a minimal of 51 miles from a small to medium sized airport with regular scheduled airline service to even be considered for SCASD.

Fifty miles is the threshold established by the most federal agencies as the local commuting area which in turn opens up the flood gates to other things including local travel reimbursement. Why shouldn't the same rule(s) apply across all venues to level the playing field.

The fifty mile rules places some of the burden on the flyer in this case and less on the taxpayer. I also strongly believe no town with a tourism draw should be eligible for SCASD dollars. Tourism towns need to stand on their own or be allowed to fail. If memory serves me SHD received SCASD money a couple of years ago with CHO in range at 26 miles or 41 km. A waste of taxpayer dollars. A bit further you have RIC and IAD

You also have to wonder why some communities refer to themselves as small for SCASD consideration and medium or large when other federal or state dollars are in play. Are they small medium or large I suppose it depends on the funding in play. Establish one set of standards and be done with it. If you are medium than you shouldn't be ineligible for SCASD.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1914 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6474 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 4):
MCI is only 90 miles from MHK and we've got five eagle flights now. It all started with a SCASD grant and some state money.

Stillwater doesn't deserve it...who cares if it's a cow college town? MHK has Ft Riley $$ to subsidize the service.


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3138 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6428 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 17):
Stillwater doesn't deserve it...who cares if it's a cow college town? MHK has Ft Riley $$ to subsidize the service.

Of course, you're not biased toward military installations and "that other" major university in the state.  

-Rampart


User currently onlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 976 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6315 times:

one of the first things that should have gone away with the sequestration.


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 905 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6287 times:

Quoting PROSA (Reply 8):
I don't understand this ... B6's service hasn't even begun, how does anyone know whether any federal help will be needed?

Also - they got a lot of backscratching from Massport for serving ORH.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6143 times:

Below I believe are all of this year's applicants with my small description of the service that they wanted, and now the results with a    for those approved. Please feel free to offer any corrections, etc.

_____________

- Bismarck, ND - BIS
$500K DOT, $500K local, new service to more hubs, AA to DWF, ORD   

- Boise ID - BOI
$700K DOT, $400K local, new service to eastern hub, 4 carriers

- Wentachee, WA - EAT
$200K DOT, $100K local, marketing/advertising, Horizon, pac nw, G4-LAS?   

- Joint Casper, Cheyenne, Cody/Yellowstone, Gillette, Jackson, Laramie, Sheridan, Riverton, Rock Springs, and Worland, WY - CPR/CYS/COD/GCC/JAC/LAR/SHR/RIW/RKS/WRL
$825K DOT, $5M local, 10 ariports in area, marketing/promotion, offset industry volatility

- Branson, MO - BKG
$750K DOT, $375K local, marketing/advertising new air service to major markets esp SoCal

- MidAmerica, IL - BLV
$700K DOT, $170K local, incentives for new nonstops to leisure areas of LAS, PHX, LAX, MCO, Florida

- Charleston, WV - CRW
$200K DOT, $50K local, attract new service to Florida   

- Grand Junction, CO - GJT
$250K DOT, $50K local, increase service to DEN and SLC

- Appleton, WI - ATW
$287K DOT, $185K local, improve facilities to attract LCCs

- Fort Wayne, IN - FWA
$600K DOT, $2M local, AA, PHL   

- Duluth, MN - DLH
$700K DOT, $150K local, UA, keep ORD service

- White Sands, NM - ALM
$450K DOT, $540K local, AA, DFW

- Chicopee, MA - CEF
$450K DOT, $308K local, marketing, G4, various destinations

- Del Rio, TX - DRT
$500K DOT, $490K local, AA, DFW   

- Concord, NC - JQF
$250K DOT, $100K local, start up $$$ for G4 to Florida, LAS

- Greenville, NC - PGV
$500K DOT, $600K local, DL, ATL

- Gunnison, CO - GUC
$350K DOT, $350K local, make UA to IAH year-round   

- Sun Valley, ID - SUN
$500K DOT, $239K local, UA, DEN   

- Huntsville, AL - HSV
$1.5M DOT, $2.5M local, study/incentive programs/advertising, seek LCC/lower fares

- McAllen, TX - MFE
$750K DOT, $750K local, new air service, UA/F9, DEN   

- Fayette, PA - I23
$750K DOT, $50K local, study/24 hr fueling facilities

- Ithaca, NY - ITH
$750K DOT, $256K local, new air service to hub such as ORD/CLT

- Klamath Falls, OR - LMT
$135K DOT, $40K local, OO, maintain airservice to PDX/SFO   

- Lawton, OK - LAW
$195K DOT, $195K local, AA, keep service to DFW   

- Idaho Falls, ID - IDA
$500K DOT, $97.5K local, DL, MSP   

- Fort Collins, CO - FLN - withdrew request
$200K DOT, $22K local, reestablish schedules service, LAS/PHX/MCO/SFO/SAN

- Macon, GA - MCN
$556K DOT, $104K local, marketing, increase 3M to ATL

- Lafayette, LA - LFT
$289K DOT, $155.5K local, marketing, keep current status

- La Crosse, WI - LSE
$750K DOT, $380K local, AA?, DFW   

- Mobile, AL - MOB
$710K DOT, $1.1M local, branding/awareness campaign of Mobile area

- New Haven - HVN
$740K DOT, $435K local, US/UA, new service to DC area

- Pasco, WA - PSC
$700K DOT, $70K local, revenue guarantee AA/AS, LAX

- Montgomery, AL - MGM
$700K DOT, $140K local, marketing/stop leakeage/regain service, UA/AA, ORD

- Moline, IL - MLI
$500K DOT, $400K local, marketing/promotion of airport to maintain current service & stop leakeage

- Angoon, Pelican, Tenakee Springs, Kake & Elfin Cove, AK - AGN/PEC/TKE/KAE/ELV
$200K DOT, $80K local, marketing/tourism promotion   

- Islip NY - ISP
$750K DOT, $300K local, air service incentives to Chicago

- Salmon, ID - SMN
$675K DOT, $270K local, re-establish airlink with BOI

- Plattsburgh, NY - PBG
$200K DOT, $50K local, marketing, expand existing air service PenAir/Boston   

- Richmond, VA - RIC
$750K DOT, 235K local, new air service to DEN or SLC   

- Morgantown, WV - MGW
$400K DOT, $86K local, establish air service/marketing/promotion, UA/Silver Air, IAD

- Shreveport, LA - SHV
$225K DOT, $130K local, marketing/awareness of airport/attract new air service

- Sanford, ME - SFM
$33.2K DOT, $11.5K local, study/implement bus service to BOS/PWM/MHT   

- Lake Cumberland, KY - SME
$1M DOT, $845K local, marketing/revenue guarantee/airlink to BNA

- Greenville, Hattiesburg-Laurel and Meridian MS - GLH/PIB/MEI
$120K DOT, $36K local, marketing/support transition of 3M to ATL   

- Sprinfield, MO - SGF
$450K DOT, $216K local, marketing support DL/ATL and new air service US/CLT   

- Trenton, NJ - TTN
$500K DOT, $32K local, ground/intermodel transportation study/shuttle service for airport

- Stillwater, OK - SWO
$477K DOT, $3.8M local, air service/revenue guarantees/airport infrastructure, AA/DFW   

- Oxnard, CA - OXR
$500K DOT, $279.6K local, re-establish air service, G4/AS, LAS/or Phoenix/San Francisco airports   

- Wichita, KS - ICT
$500K DOT, $30K local, marketing/promotion assistance of current WN service to LAS/DAL/MDW

- Wendover & Elko, NV - ENV/EKO
$950K DOT, $575K local, establish both with airlink to RNO/ Carson City

- Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, PA - AVP
$575K DOT, $610K local, marketing/current service, restore air service to PIT/BOS/Washington DC, new air service   

- Tyler, TX - TYR
$225K DOT, $388K local, marketing/promotion of airport/current air service

- Wilmington, NC - ILM
$750K DOT, $425.23K local, re-establish lost AA service to ORD   

- Montrose, CO - MTJ
$750K DOT, $150K local, develop new/additional air service

- Savannah, GA - SAV
$500K DOT, 2.1M local, risk abatement for new air service B6/BOS   

- Worcester, MA - ORH
$150K DOT, $1M local, marketing, etc., assitance to ensure success of B6 new service   

- Lincoln, NE - LNK
$750K DOT, $172K local, new air service DL/ATL   

__________

I think this is accurate, but again, any corrections, comments, etc, are welcome

 


User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6050 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 10):
B6 recently announced SAV. I wonder if they could take advantage of this grant to add BOS in addition to already-announced JFK

In the award document it states that the SAV award is for pursuit of jetblue service to BOS, so perhaps we will hear an announcement shortly with additional flights.



These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5993 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 2):
WASTE...OF...MONEY!!!
OKC is only 80 miles down the road and TUL is 90 miles east.

I'm shocked SWO got it. The Dallas O&D is 20 pdew in the true market study. 2/3rds goes through OKC the other through TUL. They only have around 600-700 pdew in their catchment area which has a lot of overlap with OKC and TUL. I hope it works, but I'm not going to be shocked if this just falls flat on its face. LAW is struggling and that is with a large military contingent (they got more money too this go around).

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 4):
Granted, not near as much government / military traffic into SWO.

Not near as much? Close to zero with no major military installations anywhere nearby.  
Quoting roswell41 (Reply 6):

What a waste of money. Let the local communities or the states pay for this stuff. People who choose to live in rural areas should not be subsidized by the rest of us. And SAV, RIC and AVP? Give me a break.

Completely agree. However...this whole thing was $10 million total given out. How much are we subsidizing in interstate highways in places like Northern Maine that only see 1100 vehicles a day? Why no outcry about that wasteful spending or make lawmakers allow those roads to be tolled to help pay for their usage? The street I live off of in my neighborhood sees as much traffic as I-95 does up there. If we are going to complain about subsidies and wasteful spending, we need to look at the big chunks of asphalt and concrete as well.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 10):
I know that FWA was talking to AA about PHL after the US merger, but with the uncertainty over AA/US, I think that UA to IAD and/or EWR might be a better match; EWR because of the international connections plus NYC O&D and IAD because of the strong local O&D. DL to the LGA hub could also work.

The grant application stated US to PHL specifically - door is wide open on that until the merger closes. There is likely to be network integration on AA stations with US hubs and just about every city will probably see a route to a current US hub unless they are just struggling like LAW-DFW or there isn't any US hubs nearby.

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 17):
Stillwater doesn't deserve it...who cares if it's a cow college town? MHK has Ft Riley $$ to subsidize the service.
Quoting rampart (Reply 18):
Of course, you're not biased toward military installations and "that other" major university in the state.

The sad thing is, OUN (Norman) could probably support a couple flights to DFW if AA really wanted to try it. However, OKC is nowhere near capacity and it is only a 25-45 minute drive depending on where in Norman you live. I will say SWO can give it a shot. The Fed is only giving $600k to the subsidy that will total $4.3 million with local and state assistance. Personally I would rather see areas like Northwest and Southeast Oklahoma see grants for new air services since they aren't connected by any direct (limited access) highways to OKC to make the drive reasonable.


User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5838 times:

I think the Sanford,ME award is a joke. What does the A stand for in SCASD? And they get $$ for a bus link? Stupid.
Oh well, most of the ones I liked weren't granted. But that is just me being selfish in what I was hoping for.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5858 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 21):
- Sanford, ME - SFM
$33.2K DOT, $11.5K local, study/implement bus service to BOS/PWM/MHT

I'm not sure what to think about this one. Airport to airport bus service. I would certainly call it outside the scope of SCASD. Its truly amazes me what fluff is available.

Quoting point2point (Reply 21):
Branson, MO - BKG
$750K DOT, $375K local, marketing/advertising new air service to major markets esp SoCal

No SCASD award; some sanity at last.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5911 times:

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 24):

Perhaps the DOT got confused and thought it was the other Sanford of G4 fame.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineFRAborn From Germany, joined Feb 2013, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5880 times:

I know MQ had talks with the City of La Crosse last year about service to DFW. I believe they were negotiating landing fees.

User currently onlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5798 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 21):
- White Sands, NM - ALM
$450K DOT, $540K local, AA, DFW

I find this interesting. How much traffic could ALM-DFW generate? I would rather see some type of service at LRU.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlinesuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 819 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (11 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
o Gunnison, Colorado
o Savannah, Georgia
o Fort Wayne, Indiana

Not that these grants are related to each other, but I find it funny that I grew up in Fort Wayne, Grandparents lived in Fort Wayne and moved to Savannah, and my sister went to school at Western State in Gunnison, CO. It wouldn't serve anyone else in the country, but if these grants established service between those three cities we'd be pretty happy   



Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlinesuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 819 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (11 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4967 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 21):
- Fort Wayne, IN - FWA
$600K DOT, $2M local, AA, PHL  

I am also curious why Fort Wayne got so much of the pie. 2.6 million is almost 1/5 of all the money offered and significantly higher than any other city by almost 5x.



Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25403 posts, RR: 49
Reply 30, posted (11 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4872 times:

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 29):
I am also curious why Fort Wayne got so much of the pie. 2.6 million

They didn't. They only asked for $600,000.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 564 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

Improving access to the national air transportation system does not necessarily mean a plane. Sanford ME's award is a prototype for future EAS bids. In some of these markets, a van running 80 miles to the nearest airport five times a day is substantially better "air service" than a 2x daily flight.

User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 32, posted (11 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4632 times:
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Quoting PROSA (Reply 8):
If there's one state that has no need whatsoever for federal assistance, it's North Dakota. Also known as the state in which the starting pay at Wal-Mart is $17 per hour yet most of the stores are severely understaffed.

Walmart doesn't pay $17 in Bismarck....but you are correct in that they are understaffed. Our local McDonald's is currently advertising $10 starting wage and $500 sign on bonus..

I don't think bringing AA in will change much as far as airfare comes. F9 came in, and while we can get reasonable fares at times, it really hasn't changed much. Bringing in AA will do nothing as far as fares come, but might convince some people to fly from BIS rather than FAR (which is already served by AA)



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1914 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (11 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 27):
I find this interesting. How much traffic could ALM-DFW generate?

Well, AA made ROW-DFW work...and ALM can pull in a LOT of military traffic, so this one might have some traction to it. But I wonder why it would be AA to DFW and not UA to DEN (which would have better western connections).


User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (11 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4357 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 33):
But I wonder why it would be AA to DFW and not UA to DEN (which would have better western connections).

DFW is the US's best military hub, hands down. Good connections to DCA, BWI, and SEA plus all the fort cities like GRK, MHK, LAW, etc.

I can't figure out why CSG failed. Maybe the timings were bad. They didn't have a RON there. I think ALM would do fantastic with the network out of DFW, and the network is what AA is after.


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3870 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 34):
DFW is the US's best military hub, hands down. Good connections to DCA, BWI, and SEA plus all the fort cities like GRK, MHK, LAW, etc.

I can't figure out why CSG failed. Maybe the timings were bad. They didn't have a RON there. I think ALM would do fantastic with the network out of DFW, and the network is what AA is after.

DFW to CSG, FAY, and AGS--all strong military markets--were all started about the same time, pre-bankruptcy AA, and all have been pared back. But you're talking about a region with a much stronger competitive presence from DL and US.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 36, posted (11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3683 times:

Quoting JA (Reply 31):

If memory serves me several bus companies already offer service between southern Maine including Portland to Boston's South Station which is just a short ride to BOS Logan. Megabus for one offers service ten times daily at a cost between $7 and $23; epending on the passengers ability to plan and use the internet. Greyhound is a second. http://us.megabus.com/JourneyResults...unt=0&promotionCode=&withReturn=0. .

The taxpayer should not be asked to subsidize this airport to airport bus service. In the case of this award; perhaps the program should be called the SCAAB or Small-Community-Airport to Airport-Bus service as the program impeads on existing service and is being subsidized at the federal level. This is fluff in every sense of the word.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 37, posted (11 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3441 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
o Savannah, Georgia
Quoting awacsooner (Reply 2):
Really? You have the population and the airline service, but you think you deserve more $$?
Quoting point2point (Reply 20):
$500K DOT, 2.1M local, risk abatement for new air service B6/BOS

I'm happy to see this. SAV is a burgeoning city with lots of growing industry, not to mention the tourism industry is blooming.

Unrelated, but I honestly wish though there was a DL conn flight to CVG....whenever someone goes to that region there's a multitude of cars from Ohio there. The lowcountry is probably one of the highest traveled places from Ohio.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3402 times:

Quoting JA (Reply 31):
Improving access to the national air transportation system does not necessarily mean a plane. Sanford ME's award is a prototype for future EAS bids. In some of these markets, a van running 80 miles to the nearest airport five times a day is substantially better "air service" than a 2x daily flight.

Sanford to PWM is 33 miles, mostly on an interstate freeway. Having worked in Sanford, I assure all it is every bit as car-dependent as one would expect of a small city in Maine. People who can't afford cars for the drive to PWM (or MHT at 75 miles, or BOS at 90 miles) can't afford plane tickets.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 39, posted (11 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 30):

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 29):
I am also curious why Fort Wayne got so much of the pie. 2.6 million

They didn't. They only asked for $600,000.

Correct. $600,000 is all FWA got from the feds. The other $2 million comes from FWA-area officials and businesses that want to see PHL a reality.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinesuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 819 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (11 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 39):
Correct. $600,000 is all FWA got from the feds. The other $2 million comes from FWA-area officials and businesses that want to see PHL a reality.

Thanks for the clarification. Good news all around.



Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlineCapEd388 From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (11 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2792 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 1):

Thank you so much for the links, much appreciated.

Quoting point2point (Reply 20):
McAllen, TX - MFE
$750K DOT, $750K local, new air service, UA/F9, DEN   

This is great! I never thought I would see the day when F9 came to MFE. I never even thought I would see the day when MFE would be considering or trying to attract F9. I have always thought that F9 was out of our reach, but I hope this project does materialize and that we get to see F9 here at MFE. What worries me now is the current uncertainty surrounding F9 which makes me think that this may not happen, but I am remaining optimistic that it will work out.
 



388 346 77W 787
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 42, posted (11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 41):
This is great! I never thought I would see the day when F9 came to MFE. I never even thought I would see the day when MFE would be considering or trying to attract F9. I have always thought that F9 was out of our reach, but I hope this project does materialize and that we get to see F9 here at MFE. What worries me now is the current uncertainty surrounding F9 which makes me think that this may not happen, but I am remaining optimistic that it will work out.

Isn't there now about a million or so residents in this three county area in this point of Texas, that MFE, BRO and HRL serve? That's enough residents for an airport, but three of them may be a bit much. Although I'm sure that each airport serves its purpose, it's probably easy enough for one in the area to catch a flight at any of the three.

Now, between the three airports, other than G4 from MFE to LAS and SFB, and VW to MEX, or seasonal HRL to MSP on SY, there seems to be only flights to mostly to IAH and DWF, and maybe AUS, SAN and HOU? Seems like sort of poor service for an area with such a large population, and also I would imagine some wealth with a good deal of that population. Probably the fact that there are three airports isn't helping out the situation.

Now, back to the the MFE-DEN flight. Since UA already has presence there, I think that if this flight were to happen, it will be UA to grab the grant monies. This could be a good route for F9, but as you say, their situation is in flux, and what direction F9 takes remains to be seen. I'll predict that F9 remains DEN-centric for at least a while, and with that, there is a chance that F9 can take this route. But I have to wonder, in previous years, F9 and DEN seemed to be a lot of the applications and awards here, and this past year, I think that this is the only one F9 is involved in.

My last DOT numbers show about 17 PDEW DEN-MFE and about 11 PDEW with DEN-HRL, so I would think that if the three airports are interchangeable for those in the area, UA could possibly run a couple of CR7s or CRJs into MFE and make some hay of the route. That would be my expectations here.

 


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2712 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 20):
Joint Casper, Cheyenne, Cody/Yellowstone, Gillette, Jackson, Laramie, Sheridan, Riverton, Rock Springs, and Worland, WY - CPR/CYS/COD/GCC/JAC/LAR/SHR/RIW/RKS/WRL
$825K DOT, $5M local, 10 ariports in area, marketing/promotion, offset industry volatility

They forgot about Greybull. Wyoming GEY which actually has a airframe museum dedicated to firefighting. http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/14707

Quoting point2point (Reply 20):
- Angoon, Pelican, Tenakee Springs, Kake & Elfin Cove, AK - AGN/PEC/TKE/KAE/ELV
$200K DOT, $80K local, marketing/tourism promotion

Translated salmon and halibut fishing and whale watching.

Quoting point2point (Reply 20):
- Richmond, VA - RIC
$750K DOT, 235K local, new air service to DEN or SLC

A potential new city for F9. WN might also attempt it.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 43):
A potential new city for F9. WN might also attempt it.

I think that UA also has some presence in RIC. And let's not forget about DL to SLC.

Also, BUF and RIC are probably the largest domestic areas/metros to/from DEN that don't have nonstop service. My last DOT numbers show O&D traffic between DEN and RIC to be about a total of 173 pax per day, or 86 PDEW. This is definitely enough pax to warrant a nonstop here. Same DOT numbers show O&D traffic between RIC and SLC at about 30 PDEW, so I would wonder if DL would be interested? The number RIC states in its application is 140,000 yearly pax into these markets, so that's about 192 PDEW here, much higher than last years DOT numbers.

This is probably one route in all of these grants that I can see going to fruition. It's 1482 miles (yes, long) but not really that thin. And it will be curious to watch who will apply for, and eventually end up with this grant.

 


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2666 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 20):
- Joint Casper, Cheyenne, Cody/Yellowstone, Gillette, Jackson, Laramie, Sheridan, Riverton, Rock Springs, and Worland, WY - CPR/CYS/COD/GCC/JAC/LAR/SHR/RIW/RKS/WRL
$825K DOT, $5M local, 10 ariports in area, marketing/promotion, offset industry volatility

"Offset industry volatility"? There's not enough money in the world for that.


User currently offlineSkywatcher From Canada, joined Sep 2002, 460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 46, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2588 times:

The whole program is simply wasteful government meddling in my opinion. No wonder the Federal debt is out of control.

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 47, posted (11 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2537 times:

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 6):
What a waste of money.
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 18):
one of the first things that should have gone away with the sequestration.
Quoting Skywatcher (Reply 46):
The whole program is simply wasteful government meddling in my opinion. No wonder the Federal debt is out of control.

Let's see here....... by my additions, the feds here gave out a total sum of $10,527,200 for all of the 25 individual grants that they approved.

Hmmmmm..... I guess one can say that it really is gonna make a really big dent in the feds trillion dollar budget.

I think that there are much bigger fishes that stink here that can be addressed in terms of cuts that most simply chose to ignore, such as handouts to billionaires in the military industrial complex (that especially) oil, pharma and agri industries that are far, far most costly, while yielding fewer benefits overall, than giving some airports these monies for air service. But.... I guess that's its pretty easy to make a stink over some visible $10M than it is to the hidden billions that wealthy individuals get and go to great lengths to keep it quiet.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 45):
"Offset industry volatility"? There's not enough money in the world for that.

lol.........

 


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 48, posted (11 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2481 times:

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 12):
So you are saying that people should only live near large airports and cities if they ever have a need to travel, and don't want to drive 2 hours before even getting to the airport.

spent most of my life atleast 1hr from an airport with meaningful service. Failed to kill me. Failed to even inconvience me.

There is no reason that every little town needs airline service. NONE. If anything promote a shuttle service to the major airport with a small fraction of this money. I'm sure greyhound wouldn't mind picking up some free federal money to drop people off at the airport


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6037 posts, RR: 14
Reply 49, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2438 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 48):
spent most of my life atleast 1hr from an airport with meaningful service. Failed to kill me. Failed to even inconvience me.

Many of the smaller cities are 2-3+ hours from any city with meaningful service. Not even including bad roads, or nigh impassible roads in the winter.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently onlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 50, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2378 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 33):
Well, AA made ROW-DFW work

I totally forgot about ROW. I still wonder what drives that route, especially when its 2-3x daily. A cursory wiki search shows they have some manufacturing and a NG base at the airport itself, but with a population of 48k I'm amazed it can support the capacity it has? UFO industry?

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 33):
But I wonder why it would be AA to DFW and not UA to DEN

For easterly routes DFW is more efficient. DEN would add a few hours to any route in the southeast, and a few hundred miles to the mid-atlantic/northeast states.

For westerly routes, PHX would be better for any traffic to California and Nevada.

ROW-PHX-LAX = 803 mi, ROW-DEN-LAX = 1314 mi
ROW-PHX-SFO= 1084 mi, ROW-DEN-SFO= 1420 mi
ROW-PHX-LAS= 688 mi, ROW-DEN-LAS=1081 mi

PDX and BOI are virtually the same.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2234 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 50):
For easterly routes DFW is more efficient. DEN would add a few hours to any route in the southeast, and a few hundred miles to the mid-atlantic/northeast states.

When talking about cities this small, brevity of routes goes out the window. People will buy tickets ROW-DFW-LAX all the time and nobody bats an eye when they fly over where they started from.

AA builds a network out of the cornerstones so it can sell the network as a whole to frequent fliers and contract businesses. I bet these individual routes never run in the black, but that isn't the point.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 52, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 11):
It sounds very menacing, but it's Greenville, Hattiesburg/Laurel, and Meridian.

Thanks, I was wondering if Golden Triangle or Tupelo was part of it.

Quoting point2point (Reply 20):
- Huntsville, AL - HSV
$1.5M DOT, $2.5M local, study/incentive programs/advertising, seek LCC/lower fares

Bloody hell, HSV's got some cheek! Huntsville doesn't have high fares, but it has high average fares thanks to so many government, industry and military business travelers. Lovely airport, though, and I credit its administration for making so many nice upgrades to the airport over the years.


User currently offlineHAJFlyer From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 1473 posts, RR: 9
Reply 53, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2071 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 50):
I totally forgot about ROW. I still wonder what drives that route, especially when its 2-3x daily. A cursory wiki search shows they have some manufacturing and a NG base at the airport itself, but with a population of 48k I'm amazed it can support the capacity it has? UFO industry?

Keep in mind the following factors:

1.) Apart from HOB, ROW is the only city in southeast NM to have air service by network carriers.
2.) The region has profited greatly from the recent boom in fertilizer production & shale oil. UA seems to have no problem at all to fill is flight from IAH to HOB.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 54, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1948 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 44):
last DOT numbers show O&D traffic between DEN and RIC to be about a total of 173 pax per day, or 86 PDEW. This is definitely enough pax to warrant a nonstop here.

Although I didn't write it trying to stay on topic if F9 were to attempt DEN-RIC; PHF would almost certainly get the axe. I think PHF is treading water. Add to that PeoplExpress might be in the PHF future. The choice for the north central peninsula tidewater region then becomes ORF or RIC. Excluding the Navy and Norfolk There remains a lot of military traffic in the region.

Quoting point2point (Reply 47):
I guess one can say that it really is gonna make a really big dent in the feds trillion dollar budget.

I understand your statement to be generalized. The federal deficit is north of 17 Trilllion and climbing.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently onlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 55, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1834 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 51):
When talking about cities this small, brevity of routes goes out the window. People will buy tickets ROW-DFW-LAX all the time and nobody bats an eye when they fly over where they started from.

True, but if a more efficient routing can be made, the airline has the option of lowering the fare and making the route more attractive to pax based on price and convenience.

I was just comparing DFW to DEN in relation to easterly routes. If the merger still happens, I would like to see some of these small cities connected to the PHX hub similar to ELP and SAF having LAX and DFW service.

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 33):
Well, AA made ROW-DFW work...and ALM can pull in a LOT of military traffic,

If the small town/military model is viable, then perhaps CVN is a possibility.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
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