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One Airport For MIA/FLL  
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 566 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 10759 times:

MIA and FLL will run out of room to grow some day. Do you think that a airport built to the west caddy corner from FLL and MIA could serve both Dade and Broward County someday replacing FLL and MIA?

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 2008 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 10684 times:
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Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
MIA and FLL will run out of room to grow some day. Do you think that a airport built to the west caddy corner from FLL and MIA could serve both Dade and Broward County someday replacing FLL and MIA?

I was actually thinking of that the other day!

I think MIA and FLL would just form as one airport sometime in the future.
I'd love to see that.

Let's face it. MIA and FLL need a total makeover. Now I love both my airports, but to combine two major airports as one would be lovely. It'll be more modern and have more space. Giving more opportunities for current and future airlines.

MIA is known for international, while FLL is known for Domestic. Combine the two and it'll be similar to LAX.  

They can make the airport in Aventura or North Miami Beach. Right in between the two airports.

It'll be great for the city of Miami if they moved away from downtown. It'll be able to make tall skyscrapers without the FAA giving them any problems.

-Miami   

[Edited 2013-09-28 20:24:58]


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineATCtower From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 10630 times:

Unless youre going all Dubai and building stuff on water, no it wont happen. It doesnt need to.

MIA/FLL both serve TOTALLY different markets and are both profitable doing so. There would be no reason to combine it. MIA has MORE than enough runway to fly anytime they arent being blown away by a hurriicane and FLL is a secondary AP that is thriving just as MDW is. The way they are, works.



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User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 10639 times:

There was a proposal to build an airport in the middle of the Everglades. There is even a runway out where it was supposed to be and a small airport there. It's called the Dade-Collier Training and Transition airport. It is still open as far as I know. Here are the details : http://www.airnav.com/airport/KTNT

My landlord was a pilot for US Customs in the Miami office in the 80's and talks about chasing planes trying to land there to dump a load of drugs. He has some crazy stories from those days.


User currently offlineLittleFokker From United States of America, joined Sep 2013, 351 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 10564 times:

You're under the impression that American aviation is still growing. Passenger traffic has been flat for the last few years, and all indications are that won't be changing any time soon. There are some new markets getting served, but only at the expense of existing lesser performing markets. MIA/FLL won't be needing a new airport in the near future, if ever.


"Toughest wind I ever played in....straight down!" - W. C. Fields
User currently offlinecf6ppe From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 10420 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
MIA and FLL will run out of room to grow some day. Do you think that a airport built to the west caddy corner from FLL and MIA could serve both Dade and Broward County someday replacing FLL and MIA?

There was, but no one wanted to drive 40 or 50 miles to get to a remotely located airport.

See above comments.

Also, do a search on "everglades jet port". There is quite a lot of info re: the topic....


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 10330 times:

I don't know much about South Florida, however I think that a third airport would be used before MIA and FLL are combined, and there is one which would be the perfect candidate. As it is, it is also perfect for any ULCC: OPK (Opa-Locka, FL). It's midway between the two airports and it is less than two miles from Tri-Rail between Miami and Fort Lauderdale (it's about the same distance as BWI's terminal is from the Amtrak station there). The longest runway is over 8,000 feet. I'm a bit surprised it doesn't already see service!


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User currently offlinebeechtobus From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 10268 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 1):
They can make the airport in Aventura or North Miami Beach. Right in between the two airports.

It'll be great for the city of Miami if they moved away from downtown. It'll be able to make tall skyscrapers without the FAA giving them any problems.

Ha ha! how many 10s or possibly 100s of billions of dollars would that cost? Do you know how densely populated Aventura, and N. Miami Beach are? It would be completely unfeasible with how many people would need to be relocated, how much area and infrastructure would have to be cleared, never mind the skyscrapers that exist on this part of the coast and then the cost of building the airport and required infrastructure. If a new build airport for Dade and Broward would be built, It would be in the glades, far to the west.

But I don't think that will happen any time soon as ATCtower states.

-FLL will soon have 2 air carrier runways, a new 14 gate intl. terminal and room to expand the remaining terminals.
-Miami will likely start a complete overhaul on the E,F, and G gates soon as well.
-PBI has all kinds of room to expand.
-Homestead may eventually become a joint use airfield depending on the growth of the south metro area.
-And finally high-speed rail can be built along the Tri-rail corridor to link these airport and population/business centers.

Plenty of other expansion options well before a joint airport for Broward/Dade would need to even be considered.


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2425 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 10101 times:

If the op is proposing closing MIA and FLL to operate a third facility, then I would say its not going to happen. MIA has spent millions on AA's terminal and will eventually spend millions more on the central concourse.


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User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4389 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 9604 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 8):

If the op is proposing closing MIA and FLL to operate a third facility, then I would say its not going to happen. MIA has spent millions on AA's terminal and will eventually spend millions more on the central concourse.

I was thinking the same thing. The new AA terminal at MIA combined with the new infrastructural improvements at MIA would make a new airport financially a white elephant. Montreal tried to do that with YMX and as is well documented was a complete failure and cost billions that would never be recouped. Of course there will be people who think that they can do it differently and make a go of it by doing the same thing and expecting different results. Insanity prevails in our society so I guess that it will happen one day.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 9518 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
MIA and FLL will run out of room to grow some day.

Growth based on what, international arrivals or regional domestic growth such as commercial and residential?
If we take residential growth, it is leaving the major cities which gets closer to the other regional airports besides Miami and Ft. Lauderdale such as Palm Beach, Tampa, Orlando to name a few. South Florida is not a connecting point for domestic US travel, it is mostly O/D. So as the population spreads out even further, the other airports will naturally gain more traffic as they will be more convenient.
On the international side, those airports above can already handle international travel and if the long haul twins continue to take over the market they will see more international travel.

At present mass transit is in its infancy in the region in terms of train travel between the major cities, so folks are driving, in which case going to airports that are closer and more convenient is their best option.

As to finding the property to build a massive airport where are you looking to the west of Mia / FLL somewhere in the middle of the two so that both regions can share in the spoils, good luck with that one.
However, there are creative minds around especially if its tax payers money being considered.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 9316 times:
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If one combined airport could get built where would it be built ? The everglades are west from Miami and FLL, there is not enough land anywhere down there for an airport that size. It was tried in the 1960's, to build a jetport west from Miami, but it got cancelled, the enviromentalists won.

The two separate airports also work well because the population is very dense down there, shorter times to the airport work well. South Florida is also full of second homes, short distances to the airport are appealing to this population, New Yorkers especially.


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1729 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 9162 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 11):
If one combined airport could get built where would it be built ? The everglades are west from Miami and FLL, there is not enough land anywhere down there for an airport that size. It was tried in the 1960's, to build a jetport west from Miami, but it got cancelled, the enviromentalists won.

I believe that the Everglades are under environmental protection and it would be impossible to get approval to build an airport there. There are already serious concerns that the Everglades are diminishing due to urban sprawl threatening many species unique to the area.

That being said, MIA enjoys its popularity much the same as DCA--as a close-in, convenient airport, geographically restricted but workable. I must admit that MIA occupies a very valuable piece of real estate and I am sure that developers would love to get their hands on it.



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User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 8912 times:

FLL also serves a lot of cruise passengers, and the cruise port is very close to the airport. Moving traffic away from that airport would be an issue.

User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7253 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 8572 times:

This will never happen and I see no reason why it would need to ever happen. FLL has some room to expand and they are increasing capacity with a second airliner runway.

Both airports are close to the seaports which is very important to the cruise lines and airlines.
Both airports are close to their city downtown and urban cores.
Both airports are undergoing or have undergone huge renovation/expansion projects
Neither airport is close to going over capacity.
There is no where to to build this mega airport. The Everglades are protected rightfully so and there is zero land between FLL and MIA to build it. And what a pain it would be to drive from some western area of Broward county to Miami and Miami Beach. MIA just got a new $500 million metrorail expansion. It would make zero sense.

So what could happen when that day actually comes with FLL and MIA are over capacity? First I don't see that happening for a very long time but the two best alternatives are:
Building a passenger terminal at OPF or Expanding OPF or Homestead Air Force base to be cargo only airports and allow some of the cargo space currently used at MIA to be turned into a passenger area. But even that is unlikely.

I just don't see the need for anything like this for a long time.

Quoting Miami (Reply 1):
They can make the airport in Aventura or North Miami Beach. Right in between the two airports

This might be biggest fantasy comment I ever seen on Anet. The location makes sense geographically but it would require tens of thousands if not 100,000 people to be relocated, and probably over $80 billion in funds if not even more. It makes no sense. That is a densely populated area with high rise buildings and important roads in place.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 2008 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 8311 times:
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Right now MIA needs to focus on doing an extreme makeover. Close runway 12/30. That runway is useless. Lower fees.

Miami is an expensive airport that's why low-cost carriers go to FLL instead.

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
Both airports are undergoing or have undergone huge renovation/expansion projects

Explain to me what are they doing at MIA RIGHT NOW??
MIA isn't doing anything at the moment.
They only have plans to redevelop the central terminal. That's it.

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
Building a passenger terminal at OPF or Expanding OPF or Homestead Air Force base to be cargo only airports and allow some of the cargo space currently used at MIA to be turned into a passenger area

Yeah... That's not happening. Not even in a million years.

Take a look at the proposed redevelopment of the central terminal:
http://exmiami.org/index.php/miami-i...l-terminal-redevelopment-proposed/



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 8263 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 15):
Explain to me what are they doing at MIA RIGHT NOW??
MIA isn't doing anything at the moment.
They only have plans to redevelop the central terminal. That's it.

Based on the money spent on the last few terminals, the new rental center and the screwed up station placement for the metro rail they need to go into hiding for a few years and let the public get over their incompetence that has cost the tax payers dearly and went way over budget.


User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 7779 times:

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 4):
You're under the impression that American aviation is still growing. Passenger traffic has been flat for the last few years, and all indications are that won't be changing any time soon.

The OP really needs to decamp to China with his 'big new airport' fantasies. The new DEN opened almost 20 years ago now, and that may be the last massive clean-sheet effort for a major metro new airport for generations in the U.S.


User currently onlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 7652 times:

Having one big airport isn't the right approach. We've got 3 major population centers here in South Florida and each has it's own airport. That's the way to go.

As for some other comments.

Quoting Miami (Reply 1):

MIA is known for international, while FLL is known for Domestic. Combine the two and it'll be similar to LAX.

There's tons of domestic service at MIA. I would bet even more domestic destinations are served from MIA than from FLL. It just happens to be almost all on AA.

Quoting Miami (Reply 15):
Right now MIA needs to focus on doing an extreme makeover. Close runway 12/30. That runway is useless.

12/30 isn't useless at all. It's very useful. It's used all the time at the same time as the other 3 runways.

Quoting Miami (Reply 15):
Explain to me what are they doing at MIA RIGHT NOW??
MIA isn't doing anything at the moment.

They're finishing off the rental car / Tri-Rail / Amtrak / Metrorail hub. That's a pretty big and important project.


User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 2008 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 7486 times:
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Quoting N62NA (Reply 18):
12/30 isn't useless at all. It's very useful. It's used all the time at the same time as the other 3 runways.

Would you rather have a new expansion and close runway 12/30 (3rd longest runway) or keep runway 12/30 and leave the airport how it is?



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7253 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 7379 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 15):
Right now MIA needs to focus on doing an extreme makeover. Close runway 12/30. That runway is useless. Lower fees

You want them to lower fees but you also want them to continuously make renovations and expansion? Those two don't go together. 12/30 is used all the time. Runways are very important in keeping capacity up.

Quoting Miami (Reply 15):
Explain to me what are they doing at MIA RIGHT NOW??
MIA isn't doing anything at the moment.

The Miami central station is sort of a big thing. They still haven't fully completed the North Terminal. There are lounge renovations and gate renovations going on also. Do you the airport to continually be a construction zone? The Central Terminal will be renovated redone at some point but it takes money. Miami doesn't print money. It takes time.

Quoting Miami (Reply 15):
Yeah... That's not happening. Not even in a million years.

It's probably about a 10,000% better chance than your one airport idea.

Quoting Miami (Reply 19):
Would you rather have a new expansion and close runway 12/30 (3rd longest runway) or keep runway 12/30 and leave the airport how it is?

If you close down a runway you cut capacity. The central terminal, espcially when redone will have plenty of extra capacity. MIA isn't getting near a over capacity danger zone for a while.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently onlinecanyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 7183 times:

Two thoughts.....Fort Lauderdale is in the process of extending the south runway to allow for significant expansion, and there is the very underutilized PBI only 45 minutes north of FLL.

User currently onlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 6913 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 19):
Would you rather have a new expansion and close runway 12/30 (3rd longest runway) or keep runway 12/30 and leave the airport how it is?

Keep runway 12/30 and complete the current projects.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 8 hours ago) and read 6547 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
MIA and FLL will run out of room to grow some day. Do you think that a airport built to the west caddy corner from FLL and MIA could serve both Dade and Broward County someday replacing FLL and MIA?

If MIA and FLL didn't exist and they looked for where to put an airport I'm sure that is what would happen. But, it isn't the situation.

Reality is that Dade and Broward are filled with airports and that MIA and FLL have plenty of growth left in them. Personally i expect Opa Locka and North Perry are much more likely to be converted to residential housing than to relief for MIA and FLL.


User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4052 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 6 hours ago) and read 6015 times:

A single airport to replace both FLL and MIA will happen as soon as the transformation of Central Park in NYC into a VSTOL airport is completed.  


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25 Post contains images point2point : Hmmmmm....... Simple numbers here: 2012 MIA total pax: 38,314,389 FLL total pax: 23,349,835 ---------------------61,664,224 total pax MIA + FLL in 201
26 doug : If the two were combined as far as take offs/landings it would probably be the 3rd busiest behind ATL and ORD maybe 4th DFW is up there to.
27 NASCARAirforce : What I have seen so far, didn't read eveything too much to read and I am getting lazy in my old age... but I think everyone can agree on this... There
28 NASCARAirforce : Another option would be to move Cargo ops to Homestead or OPF. I do not know how much cargo gets transfered from an AA plane to a Centurion Cargo, Tam
29 MIADeparture : Whoa!!! Take it easy with the excavation equipment. Runway 12/30 is an integral part of the ops at MIA. In conjunction with Land and Hold Short (LAHS
30 flymia : Great insight. Especially from someone from MIA ATC. I agree with everything you said. This is not going to be a problem for a very long time IMO. I
31 2travel2know2 : South Eastern Florida's demographics point out that HST Homestead may work as a secondary airport if a deal can be worked with the U.S. Air Force. IMH
32 flymia : It's not likely. It can't happen. The Everglades are protected, period. It would be very difficult to even get something like an airport to border th
33 cmf : Ignoring environmental issues it has less chance of happening that a new mega airport replacing MIA and FLL somewhere in the developed area between.
34 slcdeltarumd11 : Look at the economy, this is such a major infastructure invesment. The government is close to shutting down, no chance of anything this major to happe
35 Post contains images OB1504 : How is the location of the airport station "screwed up"? It's going to share a building a county bus terminal, Amtrak, Greyhound, Tri-Rail, and the R
36 NASCARAirforce : I was using it as an example of future capacity options. Although very expensive (still cheaper than developing a new mega airport) they could add a
37 Post contains images cmf : As I said, there really isn't any infrastructure to support it. it is definitely out there but of all the problems I guess it is the smallest. Should
38 FlyAAS80 : I was surprised to see that TNT had a 10,499ft runway! Quite a bit of concrete with a whole lot of nothing else out there. Does anyone have any info
39 OB1504 : Then again, with Mode C transponders being mandatory for all aircraft flying into and out of OPF, plus advances in TCAS and ADS-B, it's not the same.
40 cmf : I was built when they thought supersonic flights would take over passenger traffic. TNT was the solution to avoid the noise problem. When supersonic
41 mia305 : I really don't see it happening MIA is in a prime locations and so is FLL both are close to the cruise ports major transit stations.......etc. As ment
42 zippyjet : How can I say this tactfully? The area around OPF is far from being in the top rankings of South Florida or for that matter the entire Sunshine State
43 Post contains images cmf : When did Miami Lakes become that bad? Also, things change. It isn't long ago you couldn't get people to drive thru midtown middle of the day. Now peo
44 zippyjet : I forgot who told me but, they were a Miami Beach resident and born in the Miami area and said the area around OPF was one of the bad areas of town.
45 mia305 : I have to agree with zippyjet. I've lived I'm Miami pretty much all my life and I can say that the area around OPF is not the nicest, cleanest areas.
46 flymia : Since when do commercial airports need to be in good neighborhoods? Miami Lakes is close to OPF but the area directly surrounding OPF is not that gre
47 NASCARAirforce : I know this is brought up later by cmf. The area west of Opa Locka is Miami Lakes, which is a very nice area. You tell them they are getting commerci
48 Post contains images cmf : NASCARAirforce broke it down pretty well. Opa Locka (city) is usually rated worst in Miami-Dade and Miami Gardens is just a snippet better. I've alwa
49 Byrdluvs747 : After reading this thread it would appear to me that the only best option is to keep MIA as the the main airport. I agree, but once/if that day comes
50 Post contains images RICARIZA : MIA is currently under a total facelift; North and South terminals are new and nice (IMHO). Only the Central terminal is pending renovations. Where??
51 hiflyer : After TNT failed there was another proposal floated on combining MIA and FLL. Just W of I75 and N of the Turnpike sitting off Pines Blvd. right on the
52 Polot : FLL is in a completely different city and county so their focus doesn't matter. The two airports are owned and operated by two different departments a
53 N62NA : I used to live on Miami Beach and actually moved to Midtown this year. There's mega high rise condos being built or planned right on the bay in the n
54 Post contains links par13del : It not the location its the station, somehow someway the engineers and the Amtrack folks got their lines of communications crossed so the station bui
55 Post contains images zippyjet : Same could be said about BWI, it's south and west of the city propper and we've been a shooting gallery too though not as bad as our folks in Chicago
56 milesrich : The idea of building a new airport to combine MIA and FLL is about like suggesting that NYC build a new airport in Rego Park, halfway between LGA and
57 exFWAOONW : I wouldn't be so quick to throw Amtrak under the bus. They have to work with clueless polical hacks thanks to their micromanaging overlords at congre
58 zippyjet : These days, almost anything beholden to our clown college I mean government is throw under the bus worthy. Though maybe by guilt, Amtrak is governmen
59 NASCARAirforce : So in other words, displace and level half of Miami Springs including their downtown? Once again you are talking billions in relocating people and bu
60 Post contains images mia305 : Thats just like the old Detroit City Airport DET. There have been several attempts to have airline service there. The runways were too short there fo
61 Miadeparture : OPF is pretty much a bizjet airport. Although there is a small GA presence, MDAD and the FBO's that lease the land have clearly demonstrated their de
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